asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that, owing to the almost entire lack of inspection of ships sailing from Argentine ports, serious overloading is habitually practised by non-British owners; and whether, in view of the handicap which this imposes upon British shipowners, he will, in pursuance of the Government's policy of promoting international uniformity upon the question of load lines, open conversations with the Argentine Government on this matter?

Overloading is said to take place at River Plate ports, but no definite particulars are available as to the extent of the overloading or the nationality of the ships concerned. My attention has been drawn, to a statement that the Argentine Government have issued an order on the subject of load lines, and I am making inquiries about this. When we hear, I will let the hon. Gentleman know.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that this does not apply to British ships, and that it applies only to foreign ships? My point is, as the hon. Gentleman is aware, that it is such an injustice to British shippers, and will he not, having regard to the seriousness of the matter, as it affects British shipping, make strenuous inquiries into the question?

That is just the point. It is not yet certain whether British ships are not involved also. That is why I am making inquiries.

That is rather a serious insinuation for the hon. Gentleman to make, and will he clear British shipowners on that point as soon as he Can?

As I say, we are making inquiries.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that it is common for cargo ships to go to sea without any medicines or drugs for the treatment of venereal disease; and if he proposes, by either voluntary or compulsory method, to see that each ship is supplied with such remedies?

The hon. Member has been misinformed. All cargo ships trading to ports abroad are required to carry medicines, including those necessary for the treatment of venereal disease, and ships are inspected from time to time to see that this requirement is carried out.

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons are now registered as unemployed; if he has any estimate of the number of persons working short time: and if he has any estimate of the number of persons unemployed who have been struck off the live registers but have not yet obtained work?

The number of persons on the registers of Employment Exchanges in Great Britain at 16th April, 1928, was 1,073,500, but I am unable to say how many are working short time. It is not the practice to strike unemployed persons off the register provided they continue to attend at Employment Exchanges as applicants for work.

Is it not a fact that unemployed men have been struck off the live register, and cannot the hon. Gentleman agree that an inquiry would be useful to ascertain how many men have been struck off?

It is impossible to give any estimate of the number of unemployed persons struck off. The answer which I have given says that we do not strike unemployed persons off the register provided they continue to attend the Employment Exchanges.

Does the total of 1,073,000 contain the figures of those who are on what is known as the two months' file?

They contain the number of persons registered on the 16th April.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in these Exchanges there is what is known as the two months' file? Do these figures represent those whose names are in that two months' file.

I speak from recollection, but I think contain all the numbers except- those who are on the two months' file.

Are we to understand that there are a hi: of men who are still unemployed and still on the live register who are not drawing unemployment pay?

That is an entirely different point. The question asked is as to the number of persons on the register who are applicant, for work. Those in receipt of benefit are, of course, an entirely different number.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can give the number of boys and girls between the ages of 14 and 16 who registered at the Walworth Road, Borough, Employment Ex- change for the 12 months ended to the last convenient date, and the number of these who have been found employment?

I am unable to give separate figures for juveniles of 14 to 16 years. In the case of juveniles of 14 and under 18 years, the average numbers on the register during the 12 months ended 26th March, 1928, were 176 boys and 223 girls, and the total numbers of vacancies filled in the 12 months were 3,133 by boys and 2,974 by girls.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether those figures contain any of the boys and girls who have been on the register for more than six months?

Perhaps the hon. Member will put that question down, as I cannot say without notice.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has now received any Reports from the Industrial Transference Board; whether this Board has been able to find work for any applicants; and will he give particulars to the House of the activities of this Board?

My right hon. Friend has not yet received a Report from the Industrial Transference Board. With regard to the second and third parts of the question, as my right hon. Friend explained in the House on the 7th March, the Board was not appointed to supersede existing Departments but to secure closer co-ordination of the activities of all existing Departments which may assist transfers.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether a report has been asked for from the Industrial Transference Board?

I presume that a report will be made when they have completed their investigations.

Has the hon. Gentleman asked for a report of the investigations that have been made up to the present time?

No, Sir. It is not my business to ask for a report. I can only express my assumption that a report will be made when the investigations are complete.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us whether this Board has found work for any men?

That question has been answered several times.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is prepared immediately to make inquiry to ascertain what public works, such as canal clearance, land drainage, road making, and dump clearance, could advantageously be undertaken in the South Wales coalfield; and whether he will set up an organisation to mobilise unemployed miners upon such public works in the neighbourhood of their own homes?

No, Sir. I am afraid the position in the South Wales coalfield cannot be dealt with by organising temporary employment within the area. Any efforts which are to be permanently advantageous should be directed rather to helping the unemployed men to transfer to other areas and other occupations where there are better prospects of regular work.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Transference Board are only dealing with the younger men, and what is going to become of the older men who are out of employment?

No, Sir. I do not say any such thing. My impression is that they arc dealing with the whole problem.

Does not the hon. Gentleman read tile newspapers?

In view of the fact that the hon. Gentleman cannot say whether the Board have found any work or not or transferred anyone to work, is it not time that they began to find some work for people who have been out of work for so long?

Is it not the case that the older men are going to be employed by "Lloyd George"?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that "Mr. Lloyd George" is their only hope?

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. Is an hon. Member in order in referring to a Member of this House by his name?

I accept the correction, Mr. Speaker.

asked the Minister of Labour what replies have been received by his Department to C.E. Circular No. 2, The Redistribution of Juvenile Labour; what steps, if any, are being taken to transfer juveniles from one part of the country to another; and who will be responsible for the supervision of these juveniles in the district where they have been transferred for employment?

One or two more replies have been received within the last few weeks to C.E. Circular No. 2, but generally on the first two parts of the hon. Member's question, I have nothing to add to the replies given to his questions on the same subject on the 21st and 26th March. When juveniles are moved to vacancies away from home, the parents' or guardians' consent to the arrangements as regards conditions of employment, lodging accommodation, etc., is first obtained and the Juvenile Advisory Committees, with the help of other voluntary bodies, exercise special supervision in these cases.

In view of the great interest in this question as affecting young people, will the House be given an opportunity of seeing these reports, or, at any rate, be given some idea of what the reports contain?

I will consider that point with my right hon. Friend when he returns, and when we have got the complete list.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Miss Jane Puckering, of 22, Swan Lane,. Lockwood, Huddersfield, who for five years was compelled to insure herself against unemployment, though employed as an assistant cook in a works canteen, was sent by the Exchange, when she became unemployed, to an unsatisfactory place as a domestic servant where such tasks as scrubbing floors on Sundays were enforced upon her; and whether, as the Exchange has failed to procure a more suitable position and rules out her application for benefit on the ground that domestic service is not an insured occupation, he will look into the matter?

I presume the hon. Member, in the first part of his question, refers to the disallowance of Miss Puckering's claim by the Insurance Officer in April of last year; on that occasion benefit was allowed by the Court of Referees on appeal. In October a further claim was disallowed on the ground that she had left her employment without just, cause, and also because she refused a situation offered to her; she did not appeal on either point. On 18th October employment was found for her and she has not since made a claim. There has been no disallowance on the ground that domestic service is not an insured occupation.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of building workers who were unemployed during the last week of March in 1927 and in 1928, respectively?

The number of insured persons in Great Britain classified as belonging to the building trades recorded as unemployed was 87,964 at 26th March, 1928, as compared with 71,823 at 21st March, 1927.

asked the Minister of Labour if he has constituted the court of referees for the City of Glasgow under the new Act: and, if so, can be give the names of the chairmen and lay members of the court?

The existing Glasgow Court of Referees will be continued without change of area. There will be four chairmen, of whom two will be the existing chairmen, Mr. R. W. Reed and Mr. J. Stewart. There will also be additions to the existing panels of employers' and workers' representatives, but these are not yet complete.

The hon. Member has 'given me the names of two of the chairmen. Can he state the names of the other two?

No, Sir, cannot at present, but if the hon. Member will put down a question, perhaps next week. I may be able to tell him.

Is the hon. Member aware that the Act begins to operate on the 19th instant, and that we would like to know the names of the chairmen before it begins to operate?

It is true that the Act begins to operate to-morrow, but there will not be any great increase in the volume of work of the courts of referees immediately, and I am sure that we shall be able to keep abreast of it and to see that there is no lack of courts, and that the additional courts are constituted in ample time.

Is it the intention, besides continuing in office the two gentlemen who are at present chairmen, to appoint as chairmen the deputy-chairmen who are now acting in the court of referees?

If the hon. Member is referring to the appointment of the two extra chairmen, I would rather he postponed that question, because the appointments have not been made, although I hope they will be made shortly.

The hon. Member says that the committee expects to keep abreast of the cases that come before it. Are we to understand that any cases coming before the court of referees relating to the circumstances under the old Act will be tried by the old court or by the new court?

I think that cases will be brought before the new courts whether they relate to previous cases or new ones, but, if the hon. Member wishes to have a specific answer, perhaps he will put a question on the Paper.

Will it not throw some hardship upon people who will be Out of benefit until the new committee is set up and they can go before the court of referees?

Two courts are set up already and will begin to operate at once.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, having regard to the provisions of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1927, he will appoint Courts of Referees which will sit in Wednesbury, Tipton, and Darlaston, respectively?

Courts will sit at the three places mentioned whenever the number of local cases is sufficient.

asked the Minister of Labour the names of the chairmen of the new Court of Referees appointed to act in the Wednesbury, Tipton, and Darlaston areas, respectively?

These three areas are at present under the Walsall Court, of which Mr. Carmichael has been reappointed Chairman. It is proposed, however, in the near future to include Wednesbury and Tipton in the areas of the new Courts which are being established for west Bromwich and Dudley, respectively. The chairmen for these two new Courts have not yet been appointed.

May I take it that these new Courts will sit in Tiptoe and Darlaston?

I am not quite sure, but I think they will. I will let the hon. Member know

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in constituting the Court of Referees to operate in the Wednesbury, Tipton, and Darlaston areas, he has invited the various local employers' and workers' organisations to submit names of persons to act thereon?

In accordance with the Unemployment Insurance (Courts of Referees) Regulations, 1920, these appointments are made after consultation with the appropriate local employment committee, which, as the hon. Member is aware, is representative of local employers and workers. It is for the committee to decide how far it will consult associations of employers and employed before making nominations.

Am I to understand that new invitations are being sent out for the formation of these new committees which are likely to operate in Tipton and Wednesbury?

Nominations are made by the local employment committees, but I cannot say what steps they take to satisfy themselves. The nominations made by them are practically in all cases accepted.

asked the Minister of Labour what number of unemployed persons are at present on the register of unemployed for the Neath area. Pontardawe area, and Port Talbot area: and the number on the register for these

(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that unemployed women are being sent by officials of the Employment Exchanges to firms engaged in work which comes under Trade Board rates; that in some cases these women are not paid the Trade Board rates; that when they complain to the Employment Exchange officials they are told if they leave such employment they will be refused benefit for having left their employment; whether he has received any complaints of this character and whether he will issue instructions that where women are sent to such firms the Trade Board rates must be paid, and if this is refused or evaded by the firm and the women leave the work, they will not be penalised by loss of benefit for having left that employment?

The Employment Exchanges do not knowingly deal with any vacancies in respect of which less than the statutory minimum rates applicable under the Trade Board Acts are paid, and any such contravention of the Acts coming to their notice is reported to the proper quarter. I am not aware of any cases of the kind to which the hon. Member refers and should be glad to have particulars of them.

As the reply includes a number of figures, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Did the Parliamentary Secretary not receive a complaint regarding a case in which certain women were sent to a particular establishment at which Trade Board rates were not being paid, and when they went back to the Employment Exchange the women were told not to leave the work or they would be penalised by losing benefit, and when the case was taken up, the firm had to pay a large sum in back wages to the women?

I am not aware of those facts, but I can assure the hon. Member that I am just as anxious as he is that any such case should be investigated, and if he will bring any case to my notice I will take what steps are possible regarding it.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether the Government of India pays the pensions of military officers on the basis of Is. 9d. to the rupee; and, if so, the reason for this in view of the fact that the fixed rupee rate is now 1s. 6d., and is the rate at which any payments to the Indian Exchequer are made?

The general principle is that military officers' pensions are paid on a sterling basis and are convertible into rupees at the current rate of exchange. There are certain exceptions, but I cannot trace a case in which pensions are paid on the basis quoted. Perhaps the hon. Member will let me have particulars

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India if he is now in a position to give an assurance that the Tikha Sahib of Nabha will not be taken away from his parents and educated in some manner and at some institution contrary to their wishes?

A condition of the ex-Maharajah's severance in 1923 of his connection with Nabha State was that the Government of India would be responsible for the education of the Tikha Sahib. His mother, who was invited to take the young Maharajah to Nabha for his installation has chosen for the present to remain at Debra Dun with her children where His Highness is at present in charge of a governess. The Maharanee has agreed that his education shall be subject to the general supervision of the Agent to the Governor-General in the Punjab States.

May I take it that no definite decision as to how this young man's education will be taken in defiance of the wishes of his father anti mother?

I think I have answered the hon. Member's question very clearly and completely. What I have said is that the ex-Maharajah agreed, at the time when the conditions were imposed in 1923, that the Government of India should be responsible for the education of Tikha Sahib, and I have also told him that at the present time his mother has chosen that he shall remain at Dehra Dun.

May I ask whether that agreement was not extracted from the ex-Maharajah of Nabha under duress?

No, Sir. I think that is a most improper suggestion for the hon. Member to make.

Has not the Noble Lord received a strong appeal from the ex-Maharajah himself?

No, Sir. Such an appeal would not come to me, but to my Noble Friend the Secretary of State, but I am not aware of any such appeal.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India the reasons which led the Government of India to arrest the ex-Maharajah of Nabha and keep him in detention some thousands of miles away from his home and wife and five young children whether any charges have been communicated to the ex-Maharajah, or if it is intended to inform him why he is imprisoned; and whether any period has been fixed for his imprisonment without trial?

A condition subject to which the ex-Maharajah of Nabha was permitted in 1923 to sever his connection with Nabha State was that he would remain subject to the obligations of loyalty and obedience to the British Crown and the Government of India which are imposed on the Rulers of Nabha by the Sanad granted to them in 1860. It was also a condition that should the Maharajah fail to fulfil any of the obligations then imposed on him, the Government of India would hold itself free to annul or modify any of these conditions. It was after having satisfied themselves that the ex-Maharajah had repeatedly taken part in disloyal activities since his departure from Nabha and after having clearly warned him of the consequences, that the Government of India deprived him of his title, rights and privileges as Maharajah, and took the action against him referred to by the hon. Member. He was informed on his apprehension of the reasons for his detention for which no period has been fixed.

The ex-Maharajah, since the date of his severance in 1923, has actively engaged in a propaganda associated with notorious agitators, and has spent considerable sums on Press campaigns in several Provinces, some of a virulent and untruthful character. In so doing, he has broken the engagement he gave to the Government of India in 1923.

Will the noble Lord say whether it is proposed to keep this man indefinitely in prison without any trial at all? I must press for an answer because it is contrary to British conceptions of justice.

I have already answered the hon. Member's question in the last paragraph of my answer:

"He was informed on his apprehension of the reasons for his detention, for which no period has been fixed."

What is the difference between detention and duress?

May I ask whether the arrest of this man and his detention without any charge being brought against him, has not caused considerable dissatisfaction in India, especially in the Sikh community, of which he is the reputed leader?

The only dissatisfaction caused in India has been among the notorious and disloyal agitators.

I beg to move, in page 1, line 17, after the word "full," to insert the word electoral."

"A person, for the purposes of this Act, shall be deemed to be of full electoral age when he or she has attained the age of twenty-five years, or if he is a person whose name has appeared on the, register of voters for any constituency prior to the passing of this Act."

I hope the hon. Gentleman will be allowed to continue his arguments without interruption.

I have given that illustration to show exactly what I am driving at. I do not propose to deprive any person of a vote to which he is entitled at the present time. I do not put forward my proposal in any way as a detractor of youth. I admire the youth of our country both male and female, but it does not follow that they ought to have the vote before they have had some experience of life and work in the world, or before they have shown that they are able to control themselves and win a certain position for themselves. If that can be accomplished, I submit that something good will be achieved. There is no doubt whatever that there is no demand for the changes which are proposed in the Bill we are now considering. I have only received one letter in favour of this Measure, but I have received a great many communications in favour of my proposal.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for North Lanark (Sir A. Sprot) that the time has arrived when we should put women on an equal footing with men in regard to the electoral franchise. My own view is that the Government have lost a great opportunity under this Bill of once and for all putting the franchise on an absolutely unassailable and firm foundation. I believe the Government have made a very great mistake by the action they have taken. My hon. Friend who moved this Amendment, and a few other hon. Members, wish to amend the Bill. I am afraid we have not much hope of doing so. We want to amend this Measure so as to make it a much better Bill than it is at the present time. There is really no demand for this Measure. For many months past, I have made it perfectly clear what my opinion is in regard to the proposals of the Government, and with the exception of a communication from the Association for Equal Citizenship, I have not had a single letter of any sort from people either opposing or expressing themselves in favour of this Measure. If the Bill deals with a question upon which there is a strong public feeling, surely a person like myself who has expressed strong views would have heard something about those views from the people who are interested. I have had no communications or protests of any sort or description in reference to my action and my attitude in regard to this Measure, and I think that constitutes a prima facie case for the statement I make, that there is no interest in this subject outside the House. That being so the Government ought not to have brought in this Bill. If there were a demand for it it would be a different thing, but there is no demand for it, and we should get on very well without extending the franchise in the ridiculous way that is proposed.

I beg my hon. and gallant. Friend's pardon; it was a small irrelevant remark made by someone else in the Committee that caused me to smile.

I would ask Members of the Committee what has been their experience in their constituencies. Do they find any real desire that girls should have the vote at 21 years of age? I am perfectly certain that, if they told us what they have observed in their constituencies, they would say that that is not the case. What is the particular magic of the age of 21? It is quite true that that has been from time immemorial the age at which men have been legally assumed to have arrived at a state of manhood. Some age had to be adopted as the age when people would he able to do certain legal acts, and anyone will understand that it would he highly inconvenient to have more than one age for the entry of the young person into I he state of manhood—it would have been highly inconvenient to have different ages for different things. But there is no magic in that particular age of 21. I think that the majority of people will agree that it is too early an age for a person to exercise the responsibility of voting, and that it is a great mistake to go out of our way to give them the right, to do so.

They often make a home at 21.

I quite agree; they can marry at even an earlier age; but it is wrong for them to be given the great responsibility of voting at that age when 99 per cent. of them are not fit for it and 99½ per cent. do not want it. Again, with regard to the supposed magic of this age of 21, I would point out in the opposite direction—it may appear that this is an argument against myself, but that is not so—that the law allows people of an even lower age than 21 to do certain things. We know, for instance, that the driving of a motor car, which is a great responsibility, is permitted to a youth or a girl 16 or 17 of age. [Interruption.] There seems to be a difference of opinion, but at any rate it is somewhere about that age. That is another case in which the magic of this age of 21 has been ignored, and a totally different age adopted as the correct one at which to allow a person to do something which involves a considerable amount of responsibility. My whole point is that there is nothing in this particular age of 21, any more than in the age of 19, 20 or 22, that makes it the proper age at which a person should be given the responsibility and the right of voting.

Is there any magic in the age of 25?

No; personally I would rather fix it at 26 or 27, and in choosing 25 we are making a concession to those who think that 21 is the proper age. I hope that the Committee will not think that this is an irresponsible or foolish Amendment. It is nothing of the sort. There is nothing that I regret more than that the Government did not carry out what I understood was a sort of promise at one time, to have a conference of all parties in the House to settle this question of the age at which the right and responsibility of voting should be given to both men and women. I regret very much that that was not done, and I freely admit that, unless hon. Members opposite take the view that I take in this matter, 21 is bound to be the age sooner or later. Even if we were to succeed to-day in getting the age raised to 25, I quite see that, unless that were done with the consent and approval of hon. Members opposite, at a later date the age would be reduced to 21. It is a matter that must be dealt with by agreement, and I regret, from what I have seen and heard, that, even if this proposal were carried to-day, it would not be carried by agreement.

Some of you do not know anything about it now.

That may be, but whether the fact that people who have arrived at the mature age of the hon. Member and myself know nothing about politics is a good reason for giving the vote to a large portion of the community who more or less admittedly know nothing about politics, is another matter. I heartily support my hon. Friend's Amendment, and I hope that we shall have a great many followers.

The two hon. Members who have brought forward this Amendment are to be congratulated on at least two things, their courage and their conservatism; but we cannot compliment them on their good sense. They have repeatedly put to the Committee the question whether there is any demand for the vote at 21 years of age. As to that I can give my experience in my constituency, and it is not merely a recent experience, but one that has ranged over half-a-dozen Elections. It has been the subject of common remark by young men and women, many of them married and already having families, that they have no opportunity of voting as their neighbours have. That complaint is made at every Election, and to ask us to believe that there is no demand for the vote on the part of those on whom it is now proposed to confer it is a travesty of the facts. In every department of human activity we find that young men or young women are recognised as entering at the age of 21 into practically all the responsibilities of life that are open to them. Is the matter of voting at an Election so difficult a thing that we can withhold that prescriptive right from so many potential electors who are living at present? If you take industry, you will find that an apprentice becomes a journeyman at the age of 21 and is expected to carry out all the duties of men considerably his senior. You also find that women on reaching the age of 21 are treated as if they were the equals of others over 30 years of age upon whom the franchise is already conferred.

The hon. Member is quite mistaken. We do not take the vote away from anyone.

Do I understand the hon. Baronet to say that young men of from 21 to 25 are to retain the vote?

Those whose names are already on the register.

The hon. Baronet is proposing to make a distinction between young men between 21 and 25 and young women of 21 to 25.

Not at all.

This Bill is an attempt to put youth on an equality, and to preserve the equality at the age of 21 to 30, and it seems to me to be a very serious proposition indeed that these two hon. Members should tt.11 us that young men and young women of 21 to 25 are not capable of exercising the vote, and for that reason alone the Committee will he fully entitled to reject the Amendment.

When I put my Amendment on the Paper, I thought that it would be in order, but I quite understand that it is very difficult, owing to the Title of the Bill, to move any Amendments to carry out our opinions. I therefore find myself in rather a difficulty. I am not whole-heartedly in favour of the Amendment that is being discussed at the moment. I shall vote for it for the simple reason that I would vote for any Amendment which would prevent the Bill passing. But, purely on the question of this Amendment, it is a very difficult problem to try in the future to disenfranchise all those young between 21 and 25. I would have the impudence to suggest, though I have no doubt I should be in a minority of one, that a short time ago, when I was 21, I myself was capable of exercising the vote.

I cannot help thinking the hon. Member is rather getting away from the question of age.

I only meant to pass from the argument for a moment, because I was pointing out that that was the principal argument against the Bill on the Second Reading. But there was an equally powerful argument against it in that the more you increase the size of the electorate the more impossible it is for Members to keep in touch with their constituents. There is an argument that can be followed on that line. There is no doubt whatever that at present the larger the electorate the greater the power of the executive. Throughout the history of the country and of our Constitution the House of Commons has played a memorable part. I am talking about the House of Commons entirely distinct from the executive or the Cabinet. The House of Commons on numerous occasions has taken decisions entirely on its own account. It has taken responsibilities upon itself. Individual Members have acted upon their convictions and upon principles which they hold dear to themselves, irrespective sometimes of party ties and of what Government was in office.

This is hardly relevant to the particular Amendment before the Committee.

I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, if I have offended against your Ruling. In confining myself entirely to the Amendment upon the Paper, I do hope that hon. Members, when they vote, will vote freely, and I ask the Home Secretary that on this particular vote, if he finds it possible, he will take the Whips off and allow the Committee to give a free vote upon the question, because I am perfectly certain that, if that be done, he will find an overwhelming majority in favour of this Amendment.

I hope I can assure the hon. Gentleman the Member for the Isle of Thanet (Mr. Harmsworth) that, as far as Members on this side of the Committee are concerned, we shall, every one of us, vote freely against this Amendment, and we shall vote with the backing of the constituencies that we represent. This discussion has revealed, as discussions often do in this House, two schools of thought. The Mover and the Seconder of the Amendment dealt with the age of 21 as being an age bordering upon childhood, and I can quite understand that point of view. I wish we could all feel like that. I wish all our children had a youth at which education is not supposed to end until the age of 25. But, you see, we represent almost, I was going to say, a different kind of civilisation altogether. We in the main consider this from the standpoint of the vast majority of our population whose children begin to get their experience of knocking about in the world, of which the Seconder spoke, at the age of 14 years. By the time they get to 21 they have suffered most of the hardships of unemployment and all the difficulties and troubles of a very severe life bordering upon poverty or only just above poverty. It is that section of the community that is interested in politics, because politics interests itself in them. Laws which are passed in this House, while they may be matters entirely outside the consciousness of the sons and daughters of those who can afford to keep their children at school or at college until they reach mature years, are definitely concerned with the lives of those whom we represent here. It really is absurd to talk about young men and young women of 21 years; of age as having no experience of life. It is that, difference in the environment and experiences between working-class people and people of leisure that sometimes makes us appear almost to be talking in a different language. It is because this Bill does enfranchise, in the new electorate, a very large proportion who belong to the class of people who have experience of life, that we welcome the age of 21 in the Bill.

I am probably more affected by this Bill than any other hon. Member, as I represent a larger number of women than any other hon. Member, and I am glad to have an opportunity of saying a few words on this Amendment. Of the electors in my constituency at the present time, 19,000 are men and 21,000 women. I am advised that if this Bill Passes, I shall have added to my electorate between 20,000 and 26,000 women. Many of them are 30 years of age and over, women who ought to have had the vote long ago. My constituents will, under the new arrangement, total 47,000 women and 19,000 men, a grand total of 66,000 electors. I do not suggest to the House that I wish to alter that discrepancy between the sexes. Whatever age we fix as the age for the conferment of the new franchise, I maintain that women and men who are of that age ought to have the franchise at that age. I support what has been said by other hon. Members as to the unwieldy nature of the constituencies which are being created by the addition of 5,500,000 new electors. It is a very serious thing that hon. Members will cease to have that personal touch with the electors which they are able to have at the present time. Certain hon. Members say that the Press is already exercising too much control and too much influence on the electorate but this proposal will greatly add to that influence, because the Member himself will not be able to reach many of his electorate.

"I am quite aware that there is a strong feeling, which has shown itself in many associations, that there should be a franchise for both sexes at the age of 25."

Can the hon. Member say how many of the 21-year electors were present at that meeting?