asked the President of the Board of Trade what are the regulations in force regarding the taking on board of fresh water for cooking and drinking in merchant ships; if he is aware that it is the practice of certain ships' captains to fill up the fresh water tanks with river water Which is not pure; and whether he will take steps to ensure the taking of an adequate supply of fresh and pure water in British and Foreign ports, respectively?

I am sending the hon. and gallant Member copies of the provisions relating to the supply of water on merchant ships, and he will see that in home ports the water is subject to inspection by officers of the Board of Trade, and that at any port the water has to be examined if a complaint is made by three or more members of the crew, and any defects have to be put right. I am aware that river water is sometimes taken. It is the duty of a Master to take good water whenever it is available, and if particulars are given of any case in which this is not done, the matter will be inquired into.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the cases are very rare where bad water is taken aboard?

Yes, I am. As a matter of fact, very careful investigation was made in the Port of Hull, and we found very few cases where anything could be said against the water, and I am glad to say that the majority of these cases concerned foreign, and not British vessels.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that complaints do not arise at the Port of Hull at all in respect of water taken aboard at Hull, but to water which is obtained by vessels in foreign ports?

I think that in the few cases where the water was not satisfactory it was water on board when the ship arrived from a foreign port. I am not casting any reflection on the Hull water.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if his attention has been called to cases in which ship- owning firms in this country are placing their ships under Foreign flags for the purpose of evading income tax; and whether he will introduce legislation to make such transfers illegal?

No specific cases of the nature mentioned have been brought to my notice, and it is not proposed to introduce legislation on this matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a shipowner made a statement last week that no less than 10 firms in Newcastle had transferred to another flag, because crews were cheaper and taxation could be avoided; and is he aware that that same shipowner advised his own company to do likewise?

There is a question next on the Order Paper which asks for the number of ships that have been transferred. When I have read that answer, it will be seen that the number transferred last year is considerably less than the average of previous years.

Can we have an assurance which will contradict the statement of the Seed Shipping Company, that foreign seamen are 25 per cent. better than British seamen?

No, Sir; I am sure that, if any such statement were made, it needs no contradiction at all, because it is transparently untrue. May I say, also, that very often, while you may get a cheaper but not as efficient a crew, other charges like insurance may be increased, and I am sure that the bulk of British shipowners much prefer to sail their ships under the British flag than under any other.

If I send the right hon. Gentleman this statement, will he investigate the matter and find out what the truth is, as a certain shipowner repudiated the statement and said that there was no truth in it; is it not, therefore, well to have it investigated?

I do not think that I can investigate a statement made by some particular shipowner. He is entitled to his opinion, and we are entitled to ours, and I say emphatically that the opinion of the majority of British shipowners is that they are best under the British flag.

Would it not be practically impossible to devise legislation effectively to prevent the transfer of British ships to foreign flags?

Yes, I think that it would be impracticable, unworkable, and undesirable.

Did not a large American fleet transfer to English hands recently?

Yes, that is quite true, and in considering this matter one should bear in mind the great new ships which are transferred to the British flag in contra-distinction to what are rather old ships which find their way to other flags.

Is it not possible, in view of the first part of the question, that the correct remedy is to lower the Income Tax?

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many British ships have been transferred to foreign flags during the last 12 months; and whether he has any information as to the proposed transference of the whole of the shipping of the Seed Shipping Company, of Newcastle, to the Latvian flag?

During the 12 months ended 31st May, 1928, the registers of 272 vessels were reported as having been closed in this country on account of transfer of vessel to a foreign flag. This number is considerably below the average for the preceding five years. Statements have appeared in the Press regarding a proposed transference of the three vessels owned by the Seed Shipping Company to the Latvian flag, but I have no official information on the subject.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity of repudiating the statement of the managing director of the Seed Shipping Company, in which he made strictures on British seamen, and compared them unfavourably with foreign seamen?

I have already said, more than once at Question time, what my opinion and the opinion of the whole House is as to the outstanding merits of British seamen.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this gentleman made some scathing criticisms of British seamen?

I hold no brief for him, and I emphatically repudiate any adverse criticisms that have been made by anybody, whatever his nationality, on either British seamen or British shipping.

Will the right hon. Gentleman have these remarks brought directly to the notice of the Seed Shipping Company?

They can read what has been said, and I see no reason to advertise this particular company.

Has the right hon. Gentleman also seen the excuse made by this company that they are at present ruled by trade unions, and is he in a position to repudiate this libel also, and to say that the Seamen's Union have always worked very fairly in the interests of the men, and not unfairly against the shipowners?

I have not read the observations of this gentleman, and, from what I have heard, I do not think that I shall waste any time in reading them.

asked the President of the Board of Trade when investigation was held into the report regarding the conducting of the Enemy Debts Department; and was evidence taken from employés and note made of such evidence?

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the memorandum containing allegations in regard to the conduct of the Clearing Office which was forwarded to the Board of Trade by a member of the staff, and in connection with which the hon. Member asked me a question on the 12th June. The memorandum was received on the 11th April, and I instituted the fullest investigation at once. Specific inquiries were made from individual officers so far as it was not possible to deal with and dispose of the allegations by reference to Departmental records, and a note was made of the results. As I have already stated, I am satisfied that the allegations are unwarranted, and I suggest to the hon. Member that if he is not prepared to accept my conclusion, he should, in fairness both to the Department and the officers concerned, frame specific charges in order that they may be answered.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I am not making charges, but charges have been made in his Department, and, if investigation is to take place into serious statements which have been made, will the note of evidence be available?

I stated a fortnight ago to the hon. Gentleman that the fullest investigation took place in my Department by the senior officers of the Department. I have been into the matter of this investigation, and I stated to the House that I was satisfied that the charges made were entirely unwarranted, and I stand by that statement.

Do I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that he took evidence from employed in his Department as to the various charges which were made?

No, the hon. Gentleman will understand from my answer precisely what I have stated. It is that in accordance with the regular and proper procedure of the Civil Service, an exhaustive investigation was made by the senior officers of my Department. For that I take full responsibility, and, if any charges are to be brought, let them be made specifically, and let me take the responsibility.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the date of the appointment of the present occupant of the position of senior accountant of the Enemy Debts Department; and whether he was in the employ of the Government prior to this appointment?

There are two senior accountants at present employed in the Clearing Office for Enemy Debts. One was appointed to his present post on 1st January, 1925, after previous service in the Department since 1st January, 1921. Prior to entering the Clearing Office he was not in the employ of the Government, but had acted as Director of the Repatriation Department of the Australian Imperial Force. The other was appointed to his present post on 1st March, 1925, after previous service in the Office since 20th September, 1920-Prior to entering the Clearing Office this officer had held a post in the Ministry of Munitions since June, 1917.

asked the Postmaster-General the value of any foreign goods purchased during the last financial year for or on behalf of his Department; and what percentage this bears to the whole?

The value of articles or components of foreign manufacture purchased by or on behalf of the Post Office during the last financial year was £42,802, representing less than one-half of 1 per cent. of the total value of articles purchased.

asked the Minister of Health what saving in expenditure will be realised by the recent reorganisation of the establishment of the Welsh Board of Health?

The saving realised by the reorganisation is £1,628.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that as a result of the action taken by the Minister of Health regarding these institutions in Wales there has arisen in recent years a national party which is growing in strength in consequence of treatment of this kind in Wales; and is it not a very small sum to save considering that it is likely to bring about similar calamitous results———

Could not the hon. and gallant Member make his questions a little shorter?

Does the right hon. Gentleman read the various books on national economy?

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in view of the extra work to be entailed in connection with the Inland Revenue Valuation Office in connection with the Eating and Valuation (Apportionment) Bill, he can give an assurance that ex-service civil servants now on the joint substitution pool will have first preference for such work?

Yes, Sir, subject, of course, to the possession of the requisite qualifications.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the number of non-ex-service men employed in Government Departments in London as office keepers, storekeepers, and messengers, who were over 65 years of age on 31st March last?

The particulars immediately available do not enable me to answer this question, but it is clear that the number of persons answering to the description in my hon. Friend's question must be very small indeed.

Is it not the fact, also, that these men of 65 could not very well serve in the last War?

asked the Secretary of State for War, seeing that in 1914 the Contracts Directorate included one director, one principal (assistant director), and two assistant principals, with salaries amounting to £3,495, if he will state the reasons for the increase in the staff, as shown in the Estimates for 1928, to one director, one deputy director, two assistant directors, five deputy assistant directors, and six contract officers, with salaries amounting to £13,458; and, seeing that the cost of the entire staff of the Contracts Directorate in March, 1914, was estimated to be £13,395, if he has under consideration the possibility of reducing the estimated expenditure for 1928 of £34,687?

Any comparison between pre-War and present day staffs based on nomenclature is misleading, since the general post-War reorganisation of the Civil Service introduced new gradings with corresponding rearrangement of duties. The increase in staff of the Army Contracts Directorate is mainly due in the first place to the heavy increase in the number of technical and experimental stores dealt with as a result of the progressive mechanisation of the Army, the introduction of wireless telegraphy and other modern equipment; in the second place to improved methods of costings investigation; and thirdly to the extended system of co-ordination between Departments. On the second and third heads I have every reason to believe that the cost of the increased staff is more than counterbalanced by the economies which they effect. The possibility of reducing staff when such reduction is in the public interest is continually under review.

asked the Secretary of State for War what allowance is given to mounted officers of infantry battalions in India, other than those of the Indian Army, for the purchase of chargers?

I have been asked to reply. No direct allowance is given to these officers, but they are required to maintain one charger only, and are allowed to buy horses from Government at concession rates. I am sending my hon. and gallant Friend a copy of the rules.

Ought not these officers in India to be granted the same advantages as are enjoyed by officers at home in being allowed free chargers?

If my hon. and gallant Friend asks me to state my opinion on this question, I can only say that, as I understand it, the situation is the same as it has always been in India in this respect, and without any evidence to the contrary I see no reason for altering it.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he is now aware that the Indian State railways have placed a large order for 27 locomotives with Swiss engineering firms; and whether in this contract any provision is made for the due observance of a fair wages and fair conditions of labour clause?

I am aware that the High Commissioner for India has placed a large order for locomotives for Indian State railways with a Swiss firm. The contract contains the fair wages clause in the form generally used for Government contracts.

Is the Under-Secretary not aware of the fact that what I have stated in this House is true, and that the Indian State railways have placed an order for 27 locomotives with a Swiss firm? Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to raise this matter in the proper quarter in view of the fact that the foreign firms are under-cutting our British engineers? I have been an engineer myself, and I understand the case—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order, order!" and "Name!"] You can name me if you like.

The hon. Member must understand that this hour is devoted to Questions and not to speeches.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he has any announcement to make in regard to the taking of evidence by the Simon Commission?

The House will appreciate that the Statutory Commission is free, within the terms of the Royal Warrant, to lay down its own procedure. The question of taking evidence in camera having been raised by the Committee elected by the Punjab Legislative Council, the Commission considered it and decided to draw no distinction between it? own Members and Members of the Indian Committees in the matter of the examination of witnesses and access to documents, so that the Commission will treat each Indian Committee, within whose scope the matter in question falls, on equal terms with itself. It considers that the reservation made in the Chairman's letter to the Viceroy of 6th February, which in any event would have been put into effect very rarely if at all, can be adequately secured by the power which rests with the Chairman to protect any witness and by his discretionary power to exclude the Press from the joint sittings when necessary. My Noble Friend, who was consulted, concurred in this decision.

Will the Noble Lord explain why, in view of the fact that we have been told the India Office has no control over the Simon Commission, the announcement of this change of policy has been made through the India Office and not by way of an announcement from the Commission itself?

It is merely a matter of convenience that the India Office has acted as the channel of information in regard to an answer to a, question. Having been consulted by the the Leader of the Opposition, I wanted, as a matter of courtesy and public duty, to answer the question and give information to the House on behalf of the Commission.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether a man who enlisted in the Army in 1906 and whose present engagement terminates in 1932 will be ineligible for pension on discharge owing to the fact that he has only served 16 years in his present unit, although he will have completed 26 years in all with the colours, 17 of which were overseas?

If my hon. Friend will send me the details of any case in which he is interested, I will let him know how it stands under the Regulations. An answer given without reference to all the facts of the particular case might prove misleading.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether a man who started his service in the Army and finished his service in the Army, is disqualified for a pension by the mere fact that he spent part of his service in the Air Force?

I must have the particular case before me before I can answer that question.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he will consider the advisability of arranging for a repetition of the military tattoo in other parts of the country, preferably in Birmingham?

It rests with the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief in each Command to decide whether, having regard to the training of the troops and the other considerations involved, a military tattoo is practicable and desirable. I understand that in the case of the Southern Command, in which Birmingham is situated, a military tattoo will take place at Tid-worth in August.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the superior amenities and advantages of the Devil's Dyke?

Is not the right hon. Gentleman now in a position to arrange for a different spectacle, in view of the Kellogg Note and its acceptance—something to do with the arts of peace and not the Devil's work of war?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a considerable body of public opinion in Birmingham and district which is opposed to the holding of such a spectacle?

Fortunately, the public appreciate the tattoo.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) whether any steps are being taken to protect the herring nursery at Loch Striven against the taking of immature herrings; and, if not, whether he is considering the issuing of Regulations for that purpose;

In reply to these questions, I may refer the hon. Member to the answer which was given to him on 21st instant.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the applications for small holdings were made by Neil Macdonald and Ewan MacLennan, who were sentenced at Lochmaddy on 14th June for occupying land?

Applications for small holdings were made by Neil Macdonald and Ewan MacLennan to the Board of Agriculture for Scotland in May, 1912.

Are we to understand that applications for holdings which were made by these individuals in 1912 have not been granted, and is the Under-Secretary surprised that these men, who have been held off the land for so many years, should take possession of land? Will the Secretary of State for Scotland take further steps to speed up the work of putting on to the land men who have made applications in 1912?

The hon. Member knows that this matter has been frequently the subject of discussion and debate in the House, and he will not expect me to make a statement on it at question time.

Does not the reply indicate that these men have a very long standing grievance against the Scottish Office, seeing that they made application in 1912 for small holdings and that in the year of grace, 1928, 16 years afterwards, they are still without holdings? Have not these men a right to get land?

As to the question of right, it certainly is desirable that they should have small holdings, but, like all these things, this costs money, and arrangements have to be made. As I say, this has been the subject of considerable debate in the House, and it is not possible to go into this question at necessary length at question time.

rose——

These details do not arise from the question on the Paper.

On a point of Order. With all due respect to your Ruling, this matter has been in the hands of the Scottish Office since 1912.

That is not a point of Order.

Mr. Speaker is in the Chair. We do not want half-a-dozen Speakers over there. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] These men are now serving a sentence in prison———

The original question asked when the application for small holdings was made, and that has been answered; indeed, I think the hon. Member has given the information himself.

But you have already allowed supplementary questions upon matters not arising out of the questions asked, and I am asking a question—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"]—relating to these men—[HON. MEMBERS: "Time!"]—who for 16 years have been without land and are now in prison. Surely, we have a right to ventilate this case on the Floor of the House?

That must be brought up at the proper time, not at Question Time.

It has been brought up several times, and no action has been taken.

Arising from that last point——

We must pass on to the next question.

asked the Minister of Transport whether the construction of the terminal road bridge and approaches to the London to Tilbury arterial road will be put in hand this year.

It is very unlikely that the work will be begun this year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, when a deputation visited his Department on this subject, some 18 months ago, a promise was given that this work would be put in hand at as early date, and when may we hope that that promise will be carried out?

As my hon. Friend must realise, it is a matter of opinion when an early date materialises.

The deputation were promised that it would be done in the immediate future.

Is it affected by the raid on the Road Fund?

asked the Minister of Transport how many licences for omnibuses to ply for hire on the streets of London originally granted to other proprietors have been transferred or granted to the London General Omnibus Company, who have bought out the interests of the original proprietors?

The issue of licences for omnibuses is a matter for the Commissioner of Police, but Regulations have bean made by me under Section 7 of the London Traffic Act, 1924, permitting the London General Omnibus Company, Limited, to operate the journeys over streets unrestricted under that Section formerly run by 210 omnibuses which the company have acquired from other proprietors.

Does not this prove that this omnibus company has secured a monopoly by buying up all the other lines of buses, as was anticipated by me when the Bill was before the House?

They are buying up omnibuses, but they are being run exactly under the same conditions as heretofore.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has any information respecting increases on fares charged by omnibus companies in consequence of the duty on petrol?

My attention has been called to some cases in which omnibus proprietors have imposed additional charges which are alleged to be in respect of duty, but I have no complete information on the subject.

Does that mean that in face of the evidence which has been given since the Petrol Duty was introduced, and in face of the fact that the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that the public had to be protected, the right hon. Gentleman is not going to do anything?

Does the Minister of Transport intend to take no steps in cases of this kind?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the profiteering of certain omnibus companies who are issuing special tickets, and does he consider that those tickets represent the just amount of the tax?

I agree that in certain cases there has been gross profiteering, and that was referred to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last night.

rose——

We cannot spend too much time on each question.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has received the recommendation of the Association of Midland Local Authorities Conference that a scheme should be instituted to provide financial assistance to local authorities who may be involved in the maintenance of canal bridges; and if he proposes to deal with the matter?

I received a deputation last November from the Association of Midland Local Authorities, on the subject of weak bridges in the ownership of railway and canal companies. As I stated in reply to the hon. and gallant Member for Warrington (Captain Reid) on the 20th of March last, I am setting aside during the current financial year a sum of £250,000 to be distributed by way of special grants from the Road Fund towards the cost of the reconstruction of weak railway and canal bridges, and the construction of bridges to replace level crossings on important roads.

asked the Postmaster-General whether any decision has been arrived at with reference to laying a submarine cable for telephonic communication between the Isle of Man and the mainland?

I am not able to add to the information contained in my reply of the 12th instant to the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Kelly).

Can the Assistant Postmaster-General say what is holding up this matter?

I can only say that the matter is under consideration. Perhaps if the hon. Member will put another question I may be able to give him more information.

If I put a question next week, will the noble Lord be able to answer it?

I cannot promise the answer for next week.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will state why 16 guineas per annum, in addition to all calls being charged for, for a 10-hour service only during six days of the week, is being quoted to a householder at Stracafian, Loch Riddon, near Glendaruel, Argyll, as the lowest cost of a telephone; and whether, seeing that the telephone line actually passes the house in question by a yard or two, and there is an exchange at Glendaruel, 1¾ miles distant, he will consider abating such charges to a commercial figure likely to promote the extension of the telephone system?

The terms quoted were for connection to the Glendaruel Exchange, which has only one subscriber, and were therefore based on the cost of providing and maintaining the connection. Night and Sunday service were offered at the usual tariff, that is, £1 a year extra. As subscribers increase the charges will be reduced proportionately, and when there are eight subscribers service will be given at the £8 a year rate, plus excess mileage. In the case of such very small exchanges as Glendaruel my right hon. Friend could not justify incurring deficits which would fall on the taxpayer or the general body of telephone subscribers.

Is the Noble Lord not aware that just because there is only one subscriber in this area he needs the telephone all the more?

asked the Postmaster-General what steps are taken by his Department to meet the claims or suggestions of any telephone subscribers who may have had a check taken upon their out-going calls and whose figures differ materially from those of his Department?

If a telephone subscriber represents that the Post Office record of the number of local calls made on his telephone is in excess of that shown in his own record, the registering apparatus at the exchange is specially tested. The records are also carefully scrutinised to ascertain if any error has been made in transcription or computation. If a defect or clerical error is found, a suitable allowance is, of course, made.

Is a subscriber given an opportunity of knowing when this test will take place, so that he is able also to make a test from his end?

The meter that calculates the number of calls is at the exchange and not at the subscriber's end.

Is not the subscriber given an opportunity of knowing when the test is taking place, so that he can test the calls that pass from his end?

I do not quite follow the hon. Member. The number of calls by each subscriber is calculated by a machine which is at the exchange. If a subscriber who keeps a record of his own calls alleges that the machine is not working properly, the machine is specially tested by a qualified engineer.

Is it not a fact that the Post Office takes up the position always that their method is infallible and that the method of any subscriber is fallible, and is he aware that negotiations between his Department and the West Ham Corporation Electricity Department brought to the notice of the Department obvious discrepancies, and that the reply given was that their machinery was perfect?

The Post Office does not claim to be infallible, although it is true that we have denied that the West Ham Board of Guardians is infallible.

Does the machine count up the wrong numbers and charge them to the subscriber?

No, there is an apparatus for obviating that.

In case of any misapprehension, I did not mention the West Ham Board of Guardians, but the West Ham Electricity Department. I hope it will not be misunderstood.

asked the Postmaster-General how many villages have been called upon, in the past three years, to give guarantees for the provision of public telephones, the total amount of such guarantees, and the sum of money relating to them actually paid by such villages?

During the last three years 268 new guarantees, amounting in the aggregate to £4,994 a year, have been entered into for public telephone call offices in rural districts; and since the respective call offices were opened, the guarantors have been called upon to pay £2,827. Statistics are not available of the number of cases in which guarantees were suggested but not given.

Is the Noble Lord aware that the heavy guarantees, which are frequently called upon, tend to discourage applications for telephones, and will he be prepared to consider sharing the risk and part of the guarantee?

The Post Office is not allowed to share the risk. If my hon. Friend thinks an excessive guarantee has been asked in any particular case, I shall be pleased to go into the matter with him.

Who is it who prohibits the Noble Lord from sharing the risks? Surely he and the Department make rules for themselves.

The Post Office is under an obligation to run the telephone service at a profit.

Does the Post Office take any steps to bring to the public notice the possibility of more telephonic communication?

The telephone service is advertised at Post Offices.

Is the Department not trying to run the telegraph service at a profit?