asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has now received any Report from the Public Prosecutor regarding the affairs of the St. Mary Steamship Company; and, if so, will he inform the House what action he proposes to take in the matter?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. The matter is one for the decision of the Director of Public Prosecutions, who has caused some inquiry to he made locally and has received information but not sufficient at present to enable a decision to be arrived at.

Am I to understand that the Department have no powers until the Public Prosecutor is satisfied?

The point is, that the President of the Board of Trade cannot he satisfied until the Public Prosecutor has obtained all the information which is necessary.

Then I understand that he hats not yet completed the inquiry. If I put a question on the Paper three weeks hence will that do?

I will do my best to give an answer.

I put this question on the Paper before certain aspersions were cast on the officers and crew of the "Vestris." I dissociate myself from those aspersions.

The form of the inquiry into the loss of the "Vestris" is not yet decided, but of course it will cover all material points, including those mentioned in the question. This being so, I am sure the hon. and gallant Member will realise that it would not be possible for the Board of Trade at this stage to attempt to express any opinion as to the probable cause or causes of the loss.

What action did the Department take when the Inquiry was ordered in New York, prior to the appointment of a British nautical assessor by the Board of Trade? Did the Board of Trade take any steps through our Consul-General to be represented at the Inquiry, particularly with a view to defending the reputation of the dead Captain?

A. cablegram was sent at the earliest possible moment to our Consul-General in New York, giving him appropriate instructions.

What were those instructions? Were they to the effect that the Board of Trade should be directly represented at the Inquiry, particularly for the purpose of defending the officers and crew?

I would point out that our position in relation to a foreign tribunal is not one that is entirely easy, and perhaps the hon. and gallant Member will not press me unduly.

Is not the holding of the Inquiry in New York likely to prejudice any Inquiry which may be held here later?

Clearly, I cannot properly answer a question like that. We have no control over the Government of the United States. We can only take the appropriate action open to us.

Was not the ship registered here?

Yes.

Then ought not the Inquiry to have been held here first?

Has the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade been able to gather from the reports of the New York Inquiry whether State Attorney Tuttle was the President of the Court or the Prosecutor? Have representations been made to ensure that the good names of British sailors are protected?

That does not arise out of the question.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the scope of the Inquiry will cover the efficiency or otherwise of the wireless service?

Quite clearly, the Inquiry must cover everything that is pertinent to the cause of the disaster.

Is there any real status in regard to the Court now sitting, for the legal representation of British mercantile interests?

I should not like to answer that question without notice. My recollection of previous Inquiries is that whatever legal assistance was necessary was provided.

Have instructions to that effect been given?

The form of the Inquiry has not yet been settled. No Tribunal has yet been set up, and none of the witnesses are at this moment in this country.

Is it not a fact that any British vessel carrying passengers out of United States ports is bound to have a certificate from the United States stating that she is fit and seaworthy?

Broadly speaking, every foreign country issues passenger certificates for ships which are carrying passengers from ports of that particular country, except that in some cases where ships are coming here they may recognise our passenger certificate.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if his attention has been called to cases of inefficient sound apparatus carried in many steamships for the purpose of giving the authorised warning signals in fog under the international regulations for the prevention of collisions at sea; what steps are taken to inspect and test this apparatus; and, in the case of foreign ships, whether any international action is possible where the apparatus is known to be defective or inefficient?

A general complaint as to the inefficiency of whistles on some ships was received by the Board of Trade from a shipmaster a short time ago, but as particulars were not given, it was not possible to say how much foundation there was for the complaint. On passenger ships the sound signal apparatus is inspected every year. In the case of cargo ships it is inspected at the time of registration and afterwards as opportunities occur, or when there is any reason to think the apparatus may he defective. All foreign ships in British ports are subject to inspection like British ships, and compliance with the requirements of the international collision regulations can be secured either by reference to the proper national authority, or, if this should be necessary, by detention.

Will the hon. Member look into the question of a more frequent inspection, especially of cargo vessels, and, also regular inspection of their sound apparatus?

There is some difficulty in that respect, because cargo vessels may be absent from this country for very considerable periods.

Can the hon. Member say whether there has been any increase in inspectors in the last four years? There was a move to increase the number.

I must ask for notice of that question.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that although under the Merchant Shipping Acts seamen disputing deductions from wages are entitled to sign Form of Release M, certain seamen on discharge from the steamship "Edinburgh Castle" at Southampton last week were refused such forms; and will he instruct Board of Trade superintendents to issue Form M in all such cases?

I am informed that when the crew of the "Edinburgh Castle" were discharged at Southampton on the 12th November, none of the crew asked for facilities to sign the release on Form M. If any seaman had wished to reserve a claim against the owners or master he would have been permitted to sign on Form M. Board of Trade Superintendents have standing instructions that this is to be done in such cases, and no further instructions on the subject are necessary.

Have any steps been taken to inform the sailors that they have these facilities?

I think every sailor is perfectly familiar with the fact.

asked the President of the Board of Trade who is responsible for carrying out inspections and for the enforcement of Board of Trade rules in respect of British ships sailing between foreign ports?

Consuls at foreign ports have limited powers for securing compliance with the Merchant Shipping Acts, and can generally arrange for a ship to be surveyed where this is necessary or summon a Naval Court to deal with a specific complaint, but they have no technical staff and do not make regular inspections. Where inspections take place they are generally made by surveyors of the classification societies or similar bodies or by officers appointed for the purpose by foreign Governments.

In view of the inadequacy of the powers which are possessed by Consular officials, will the Parliamentary Secretary take steps to improve the law in this respect, so that it shall be the duty of British Consular officials, or other foreign officials to see that the Board of Trade regulations are put into force on ships sailing into foreign ports?

Regulations with regard to ships leaving foreign ports are imposed by the legislation of the foreign Government itself, and I ask the hon. and gallant Member to realise that we cannot enforce British laws quite freely in other countries, however desirable it may be to do so.

Is it not the case that Lloyds Register has a surveyor in every important port in the world and that such surveyor has perfect liberty to go on board all ships registered at Lloyds in any port in the world?

That, obviously, is the case, and the Classification Society has rendered valuable services by the inspections that they are constantly making.

In view of the fact that the Board of Trade has powers over foreign vessels sailing from British ports, may I ask whether foreign countries have full power over British vessels sailing from foreign ports, and whether these powers were exercised in the case of the steamship "Vestris"?

Broadly speaking, every country is presumed to enforce its own laws, and as far as I know the United States enforced its own laws in this case.

May I ask whether steps can be taken by which the captains of British ships must submit their papers to the Consul in a foreign port? A case occurred some years ago in which the Board of Trade instructed a British captain that he need not submit his papers to the British Consul.

I must have notice of that question.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether tests as to the efficiency of boats on ocean-going liners are carried out prior to each voyage; and whether ocean-going liners are expected to carry sufficient boats, apart from rafts, etc., to accommodate, in case of need, all the passengers and the crew?

All passenger vessels trading to or from ports in the United Kingdom are thoroughly surveyed at least once a year by Board of Trade surveyors, and ocean-going vessels carrying large numbers of third-class passengers undergo a further survey before the beginning of each voyage from the United Kingdom. All the British ocean-going liners trading from this country carry boats for all, and, in addition, rafts for 25 per cent. of the persons on board.

Is the hon. Gentleman's Department satisfied that the boats on passenger liners are all inspected before each voyage?

I am not certain that the boats on passengers liners are all inspected before each voyage.

If the Parliamentary Secretary is not satisfied that a regular and efficient inspection of such boats takes place, will he take steps to see that such inspection is carried out in future?

The question refers to the efficiency of boats on passenger vessels and not necessarily to any particular item of the equipment of such vessels.

May I ask whether the Department is becoming disturbed by the frequent complaints of overloading?

That point does not arise out of the question. I do not accept the suggestion as true.

Will the hon. Member take it from me—[HON. MEMBERS "No!"]—that these boats are not properly inspected?

Is it not the case that every passenger liner has boat drill during every voyage—[HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]and that the boats are put into the water during the voyage? [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the inspectors of his Department have any responsibility for the proper storage of cargo below decks; and, if so, of what nature?

The responsibility for the proper stowage of the cargo rests on the persons concerned in sending the ship to sea. The Board of Trade surveyors do not intervene unless there is reason to think that a ship is improperly loaded and cannot go to sea without serious danger to life.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say how many complaints have been received this year?

Not off-hand.

Is he satisfied that the complaints are more numerous?

I have not had my personal attention drawn to any.

Is there any guarantee that the cargo is properly stored away and tightened up before the vessel leaves?

The primary responsibility is laid quite properly on the master of the ship. His own life is at stake, and he is therefore likely to be much more careful than anyone else.

Have we not up to the moment been accustomed to trust the mercantile marine?

May I ask whether any limitation is placed on deck cargo, and whether any inspection is made to see that the regulations are carried out?

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether pasenger life-saving drill is prescribed on each voyage of all ocean-going steamers; and how often the crews of such boats are trained in boat lowering?

Although there is at present no power to require boat drill to be carried out on passenger ships, standard regulations on the subject were drawn up some time ago by the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee, on which all the shipping interests are represented, and these are in substance followed on all ocean-going passenger vessels, although the details vary in different lines and in different trades. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the standard regulations.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary satisfied that the life-belts provided on these liners are inspected at the same time as the boats?

I should imagine that they are not examined in detail. They are all of an approved pattern.

Should not the recommendations of this important advisory committee in respect of life-boat drill be made compulsory?

Is it not within the knowledge of the Parliamentary Secretary that there are certain lines on which boat drill for passengers does not take place until the voyage is nearly over?

The question does not refer to boat drill by passengers, but to what is more important, boat drill by the crew. On some ships, there are no arrangements, deliberately, for boat drill by passengers, because the companies prefer to assemble the passengers at stated points rather than opposite the boats, because some of the boats may happen to be damaged and not available.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to a resolution passed unanimously at a meeting of the fish trade at Yarmouth, on Saturday, 10th November, to the effect that no substantial or permanent improvement in the industry could be secured except by the reopening of the Russian market, and demanding that the British Government take steps to facilitate trading relationships with Russia; and what action he proposes to take in the matter?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave on 14th November to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Sir R. Hamilton), a copy of which I am sending him.

I have seen the answer. Is not the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in the past we have done a pretty considerable business with these people and that the organisation with which I am connected has done a great deal of business without, losing money? Cannot outside trade be encouraged by means of credit, and create a better market for British fisheries?

I think that raises a point which was dealt with in the Debate yesterday.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, with a view to a better understanding of the economic condition of the iron and steel industries, he will cause a memorandum to be compiled and circulated giving authoritative statistics as to production, imports and exports, prices, costs, and employment in those industries?

A very thorough memorandum on the iron and steel industry, including particulars of production, imports and exports, and numbers employed over a period of years, with some discussion of prices and costs, is included in the "Survey of Metal Industries" published this year by the Committee on Industry and Trade. Moreover, the more important figures relating to the industry are regularly published in the Annual Reports and Monthly Bulletins of the National Federation of Iron and Steel Manufacturers. In these circumstances, I do not think that a further memorandum is necessary at the present time.

Is it not possible to bring these figures up to date?

These figures are published monthly by the National Federation of Iron and Steel Manufacturers, and the figures are never more than a few days out of date. The figures in the document published by the Committee on Industrial Trade are also comparatively recent.

Is it not a fact that those figures show rapidly decreasing imports of iron and steel into this country and an increasing production of iron and steel in this country?

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he proposes to make any representation to the Government of Canada respecting its proposal to impose a special duty of 9d. per lb. on artificial silk fabrics entering Canada from Great Britain?

I have asked His Majesty's Senior Trade Commissioner in Canada to obtain some further information as to the manner in which it is intended to carry out this proposal.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how the present rate of production of motor cars compares with the rate in the period in 1924 and 1925, when the import duty was not in operation?

Figures relating to the production of motor cars in this country during the period in 1924 and 1925, when the import duty was not in operation, are not available. According to estimates of production for calendar years published by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (which do not include cars assembled in this country from imported parts), the output of motor cars and chassis in 1927 exceeded the average annual output during 1924 and 1925 by about 40 per cent., commercial vehicles and their chassis being excluded, or by nearly 50 per cent. if such vehicles be included in the comparison.

Would not a comparison of the present production and the figures of 1850 show a still further increase?

Has the Parliamentary Secretary the figures for 1923 with him?

I am afraid I have not.

Is not the Parliamentary Secretary surprised that an hon. Member on this side of the House should put such a question as that put by the hon. Member for Mossley (Mr. Hopkinson)?

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary think that hon. Members who have made statements in their own constituencies are entitled to express the same view on the Floor of this House?

Can you, Mr. Speaker, do anything to check these differences of opinion in the Conservative party?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the Fishery Board are prepared to revise their Regulations regarding the branding of crown medium herring?

The Fishery Board for Scotland see no reason at present for altering their Herring Branding Regulations, which were revised only in April last, but the matter will he kept in view and duly considered when further experience of the working of the present Regulations has been gained.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what has been the surplus of revenue over expenditure of the Patent Office in each year from 1922?

The surplus of receipts over expenditure as shown by the Annual Reports of the Comptroller-General of the Patent Office for the years 1922–27 was as follows:—1922,£74,074; 1923,£81,798; 1924, £75,203; 1925, £88,540; 1926, £98,813; 1927, £112,939.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if any ex-service P-class officers in the Scottish Board of Health have yet been promoted to the established clerical grade; and whether, in view of his reply of 19th July last, he proposes to assign to ex-service P-class officers any of the remaining posts in that grade?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. As regards the second part the question of the promotion of "P" class men to the clerical grade in the Scottish Board of Health is still under consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for War if any of the regular officers or soldiers who have been employed in making films have met with serious injuries, and will he give particulars?

I have been asked to reply. The only such cases which have been brought to my notice were connected with the production of the film "Mons" in 1926 and with the film "Balaclava" last month. In the former case, one soldier was killed and one had his right leg fractured and an eye severely injured; in the latter case, one soldier fractured a thigh bone. I am informed that in this case the invalid is progressing satisfactorily.

Will the hon. Gentleman say whether any compensation was paid to this man?

I could not say off-hand, but I shall bring the question to the notice of my right hon. Friend, who will give it due consideration.

Will the hon. Gentleman also bring before the Secretary of State for War the suggestion that in making contracts for the production of these films all the film companies should have the men thoroughly well insured, so that in case of a claim arising they can be guaranteed compensation?

That suggestion will be brought before my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for War, whether it is the practice of the War Office to sanction the use of military bands at political fetes and garden parties; and whether his Department granted permission for a portion of the band of the Suffolk Regiment to play at the Conservative garden party on 23rd August at Boxted Hall?

Individual applications for the services of Army bands are not referred to the War Office but are dealt with by the regimental authorities subject to certain general rules. The general rule is that Army bands should not play at political gatherings, but I am informed that in the case to which the hon. Member refers, it was not clear when the engagement was accepted that the occasion was a political one.

But is the hon. Gentleman aware that Boxted Hall is in the Division represented by the Secretary of State for War, and will he tell us why the Minister is not present to-day, so that he may answer this question?

I regret to say that my right hon. Friend is away owing to illness. That is the reason why I have been asked to reply. Boxted Hall, as the hon. Member says, is in my right hon. Friend's constituency, but I might say that while the speeches were being made the band was taking tea.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to see that in all cases where military bands are permitted to attend Conservative galas, the members of the band are always at tea while speeches are being made?

Was there a keyhole to the door of the place where the band were taking tea'?

asked the Secretary of State for War the numbers of men and boys recruited to His Majesty's Forces during each month from July, 1926, to date?

I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table showing the number of recruits taken on the strength of the Regular Army each month since July, 1926.

asked the Secretary of State for War what savings he anticipates in next year's Army Estimates as a result of the signing of the treaty for the renunciation of war, signed in Paris, commonly known as the Kellogg peace pact?

I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the reply given on the 24th July last to the hon. Member for Anglesey (Sir R. Thomas).

But since then has not the Pact been signed, and is there no further reply available?

Not for the moment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the recent official statement that a beginning has been made with a scheme, planned in secret, which will eventually bring about the complete reclamation of the waste places, and especially the bog lands, of Great Britain, he will say whether such a scheme has been discussed at the Scottish Office; whether the details were there given; and what conclusion was arrived at?

I have no knowledge of any official statement or scheme of the nature referred to in the first part of the question. The Board of Agriculture has, for some time past, been carrying on experiments in reclamation in Dumfriesshire; and I am aware that, following on an inspection of these experiments, a generous offer of funds has been made with the object of enabling further experiments to be made in the reclamation of peatlands. The matter is under consideration but I am not in a position to make any statement at this stage.

Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been called to the fact that the Chairman of the Board of Agriculture in Scotland did make a statement to certain selected Press men? May I send him a, copy of the report?

I have seen that newspaper report, which I confess I have not, read in detail, but I do not think it can be taken that it is the official report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has received representations from the Incorporation of Architects in Scotland in regard to the proposed new buildings for the Scottish National Library; and, in view of the statement made for the First Commissioner of Works on 4th July, 1928, is he prepared in this instance to invite designs for approval from architects outside Government employment?

I have been asked to reply. The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative; as regards the second part, due consideration will, of course, be-given to the representations from the Incorporation of Architects in Scotland' when the time arrives, but in the opinion of the First Commissioner this is premature at the present time as it is improbable that the erection of the Scottish National Library can be commenced for several years.

Is it not possible for the Government to arrive at some definite policy that would give satisfaction to the interests of Scotland?

I do not know quite what my hon. Friend means, but, if he is referring to policy in regard to this matter, we have a definite policy.

Is it possible to disclose that policy?

Yes, Sir. The site of the library is at present occupied by the Sheriff Court. That court will have to be rebuilt on another site and completed for occupation before the site is available for the library.

What I want to know is, are the Government going to get the best possible architectural work in this building, or are they going to leave it to a Government department? I want an assurance on that point.

It is too premature yet to make a statement on the subject.

Are the Government responsible for this building?

As far as I remember, it is partly paid for by voluntary contributions, but that does not alter the statement that I have made.

Is there anything to prevent the Incorporation of Architects in Scotland from submitting plans voluntarily?

Not as far as I am aware.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total cost and expenses in which the Government were involved in the Oscar Slater appeal?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what were the total costs of the Government in the Oscar Slater appeal case; and if he has any information as to the total costs of Oscar Slater in the same action?

The total costs incurred by the Crown in respect of the Slater appeal amounted to£272 2s. 11d. I have no definite information as to the total costs incurred by the appellant.

Do these costs include the cost of the various American investigations?

As far as I know, the Crown did not hold any American investigation.

Is it not a fact that investigations went on in America for many years in connection with various witnesses in this case?

Does that sum include any payment either to the Lord Advocate or the Solicitor-General, who conducted the case for the Crown, other than that passed by this House?

With regard to the first supplementary question, if the hon. Member will put down a question on that subject I shall endeavour to answer him. As regards the second question, the Lord Advocate does not receive any fee.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to state the precedents which influenced the Government's decision in arriving at the amount paid to Mr. Oscar Slater as an ex gratia payment for the wrongful imprisonment he endured for 18½ years; and whether, in taking into consideration these precedents, the amount of costs and expenses incurred by the persons concerned in establishing their innocence were taken into consideration?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he can state the precedent on which he based the amount of the ex grotia payment to Oscar Slater: what was the period of imprisonment imposed; the amount of the compensation awarded; and whether the precedent was under the jurisdiction of the Scottish Office?

In determining the amount of the payment to Mr. Slater, regard was had to previous cases where it appeared that persons who had served a period of imprisonment should not have been convicted. The Scottish Office has a record of only two previous cases where payments were made by the Exchequer in respect of wrongful convictions in Scotland. In neither of these cases were the circumstances very comparable to the Slater case. Regard was therefore had to various English cases, including the cases of Brannaghan and Murphy, who in 1888 each received a free pardon and£800 after serving nine years; Beck, who in 1904 received a free pardon in respect of two convictions and£5,000 after serving about 5½ years; Edalji, who in 1907 received a free pardon but no compensation after serving about 3½ years; and Mrs. Gooding, whose two convictions were quashed by the Court of Criminal Appeal in 1921, and who received£250 after spending rather over eight months in prison. Consideration is given to all the circumstances of individual cases, including the possibility of expense having been incurred by the person concerned.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether in any of these cases the prisoner was almost executed—almost went to the gallows?

Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to make any inquiry into the legal costs of the appellant in having his sentence quashed, so that the House may have some definite information as to the actual sum received by him as compensation? The House will then be in a position to compare that sum with the precedents quoted by the right hon. Gentleman.

No, Sir. I see no reason to take that course. The compensation which was given was given to cover all the circumstances and was so accepted.

How can the right hon. Gentleman intimate to this House that it was given after taking all the circumstances into consideration, when he admits that he does not know what were the legal costs of the appellant? Is it not an important point in the consideration of the amount of compensation to be determined? Compensation is surely not payment for expenses incurred?

I understand that a Supplementary Estimate will shortly come before the House in Committee, and that would be the proper time at which to debate this subject.

In order that the House may be in a position to judge the Supplementary Estimate and debate it with all the facts before them, is it not necessary that the costs of the appellant should be made known to the House?

That is probably so, but I felt that the hon. Member in his Supplementary Question was going rather beyond that point.

Arising out of the precedents mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman, if they are to be taken into consideration, will he also consider the fact that£5,000 in 1904 is to be regarded as something like£8,000 to-day?

In regard to the precedents quoted, can the right hon. Gentleman also say whether in any of these cases expenses had to be incurred on anything like the scale involved in the Slater case?

Of course, in judging of these matters, there is a certain element of knowledge in the Department of what the ordinary run of costs may be in particular cases. Naturally, all these things are taken into consideration, but this payment must not be taken as being divided into heads and sub-heads. It is a lump sum paid to cover all the circumstances.

rose—

The hon. Member has had the facts for which he asked.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he can give, for the last 25 years, the number of cases in Scotland in which a convicted person has been released after serving a portion of the sentence owing to its being ascertained that the conviction was wrong, and in each case the term of conviction, the portion served, and the amount of any ex gratia payment made; whether in any case it was, or was not, specified that a part of such payment was for legal or other expenses incurred by the convict or his friends in securing his release, and the general principles upon which the amount of ex gratia payments is arrived?

As the reply is long and involves some figures, I propose, with the hon. Member's permission to circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the number of cases; and can he state whether in any case anything has been specified as to the costs incurred; and what are the general principles on which the ex gratia payment, are made?

If the hon. Member waits until he has the reply in his hands, I think he will find that it deals with all the points set out in the question.

asked the Secretary for Mines whether he will furnish a Return showing, for the week ended 6th October, 1928, the number of collieries in operation, the number of workers, the number of workers on short time, the number working less than 48 hours, the number working 48 hours, and the number working more than 48 hours?

During the week ended 6th October, 1928, 2,106 pits were in operation. The total number of wage earners on their books was 897,200, of whom it is estimated that 422,500 were prevented from working on one or more days during the week through want of trade or through transport difficulties. I regret that information is not available or readily obtainable to enable me to answer the last part of the question.

asked the Secretary for Mines whether he has any information regarding the closing of a colliery at Ibstock, Leicestershire; whether this colliery has been permanently closed; and, if so, what steps are being taken to assist the workers concerned to find other employment?

I understand that a part of this pit was closed last week, and I am informed by the owners that it is impossible to make any statement at present as to the prospect of reopening. It is hoped that the majority of the men affected will be able to obtain work at neighbouring collieries, and the local Employment Exchanges and the management of the collieries are working together with this object. I understand that work has already been found for several hundreds of the men.

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the reason given for the closing down of this pit was that it was owing to the competition of the sea-borne coal from Northumberland and Durham; and can he exercise a little pressure on the coalowners of Durham and Northumberland to induce them to abstain from this cut-throat competition which is closing down mines in the Midlands?

Has the competition not been intensified by the Eight Hours Act for which hon. Members opposite were responsible?

I am afraid that these points do not arise from the question, and ought to be put down.

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the coalowners in Northumberland and Durham are endeavouring to keep their pits open by working at a loss?

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman also aware that the owners in Northumberland and Durham will, very shortly, be still further hit by the effects of the de-rating scheme?

asked the Secretary for Mines the number of pit-head baths sanctioned by the welfare committee to be erected in Lancashire; and the names of the collieries and the progress made?

The Miners' Welfare Committee have up to the present approved plans for six pit-head bath schemes in Lancashire. These schemes relate to the following collieries: Raven-head, Chanters, Gibfield Arley, Parsonage, Nook and Agecroft. It is hoped that building will commence shortly in the case of the first three named. In regard to the other three, active negotiations are in progress.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman have inquiries made for purposes of comparison as to the position in Germany and other countries?

I should require notice of that question.

asked the Secretary for Mines what is the total number of underground workers at present employed in the mines of the country; what percentage are boys under 16; and the percentage of accidents which occurred to those over and under 16 years, both fatal and otherwise, for the year 1927?

On the basis of information relating to December, 1927, it is estimated that 728,700 wage-earners are employed below ground at coal mines at the present time, of whom 3.6 per cent. are boys under 16 years of age. During 1927, 96.6 per cent, of the fatal accidents below ground occurred to those over 16 and 3.4 per cent. to those under 16, the corresponding figures in respect of acci- dents causing disablement for more than three days being 95.9 per cent. and 4.1 per cent. respectively.

Has the hon. and gallant Gentleman's attention been drawn to the practice of certain coal-owners who employ boys at these ages to do men's work underground?

No, Sir. I know of no justification for that statement.

asked the Secretary for Mines what is the earliest and the latest times of shifts at which boys of under 16 years of age are taken into the mines in Durham county, and at what time the latest shifts leave the mines?

The most recent information in my possession relates to April, 1927. The times at which the various shifts in Durham start and finish vary from pit to pit, and instances can he found of shifts which include boys either ending just before, or starting just after, midnight. In April, 1927, it was found that 838 boys under 16 years of age were working after 9 p.m. and 1,076 before 5 a.m.

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that boys are taken into the pits at one or two o'clock, and do not come out until between two and three next morning; and does he consider that those are reasonable hours?

I think the hon. Member will realise that, with regard to pit-boys, it is very often the fathers who like to have their sons working with them. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] That is what I am informed, and that is my answer—that in these circumstances I cannot see any reason why it should be stopped.

If the father happened to be a criminal, would the Government be justified in that view?

I see no comparison with this matter at all. It is merely a question of working shifts which work through the night. If the father is working on the night shift, in some cases he may wish to have his own boys working with him.

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman not aware of what nearly every miner knows, namely, that these boys are working in no connection with their fathers at all? They may be working miles apart, and these are the regular hours for taking the boys into the pits and letting them out?

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman not aware that the argument he has just used is the argument used by Indian coalowners for having women and babes employed in the mines in India?

I am not aware of that fact.

Who gave the hon. and gallant Gentleman that information? Is he aware that there is not a single case such as he has mentioned in the North of England?

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that these long hours for the boys have only commenced since the Government passed the Eight Hours Act?

asked the Secretary for Mines if his attention has been called to the accident at Foldforth Colliery, Woodland, County Durham, by which two people, father and son, lost their lives; and will he cause an inquiry to be made into the whole circumstances attached to this matter?

The circumstances were fully investigated at the inquest, which was attended by one of His Majesty's Inspector of Mines, who had previously made an independent investigation. I have no reason to think that a further inquiry would serve any useful purpose.

Is the hon. and gallant Member aware that in many of these small pits, such as the one referred to in the question, no regard is paid to the regulations; and will he ask the inspectors to take extra precautions in these mines?