asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what allowance is made to boys under training in His Majesty's Ship "Fishguard," stationed at Portsmouth, in the matter of their travelling expenses to and from their homes in Devonport; and whether, seeing that the boys in training are unable out of their pay to defray the travelling expenses themselves and it therefore falls on the parents, he can arrange for free travelling facilities to be given to these boys when travelling home on leave?

When proceeding on leave, boys over 16 years of age are granted return tickets by the railway companies at the rate of one and a-third of the ordinary single fare and those under 16 years of age at half that rate, that is to say, at two-thirds of a single full fare. I regret that I am unable to entertain the suggestion that these reduced fares should be borne by public funds.

What is the reason for the discrimination between boys above 16 and those under 16?

I should imagine that it is due to the difference in the size of the pay of the two classes of boys.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the standard displacement method of measuring war vessels is applicable to pre-War vessels; and whether, as this will have the result of considerably reducing the recorded tonnage of pre-War ships of all nations, it is the intention of the Admiralty, for the purpose of comparison with the ships of other nations, to adopt this new method of measurement for all the vessels enumerated in the Navy List?

The Washington standard displacement method of measuring war vessels can be made applicable to all types. The Washington Treaty of 1922, however, contained a provision that "vessels now completed shall retain their present ratings of displacement tonnage in accordance with their national system of measurement." In the Navy List, therefore, standard displacement is only shown against vessels completed since the Washington Treaty.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his attention has been called to the successful efforts in America in raising promptly an obsolete submarine which was sunk for the purpose of an experiment; and whether he will include in the naval programme for this year the sinking of a similar obsolete vessel and its raising by the employment of the American methods or by any other which may be deemed to be of equal utility and value?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part arrangements have been made for experiments in lifting a submarine to be carried out as soon as the special fittings to be tried are ready.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the officials of the Employment Exchange at Kidsgrove, Staffordshire, are acting in accordance with his instructions, or with the instructions of his Department, in sending officials of the Employment Exchange to the homes of persons on the unemployment benefit fund to ascertain whether such persons are at home and, if not at home, asking other persons in the house where the person on the fund is, and generally putting them through a severe cross-examination in respect to the person on the fund; and whether the officials at the Employment Exchange are acting under instructions in striking off the fund a person who is at home when they call on him?

In accordance with instructions visits are sometimes made to the homes of applicants for benefit, in order to verify that the conditions for receiving benefit are satisfied. Local officials do not themselves disallow claims: all decisions to disallow are given by the insurance officers in London.

Will the hon. Gentleman inform me whether the officials of this Exchange are acting under the Ministry's instructions in striking off the fund any person whom they find at home?

I could not hear the last part of the hon. Member's question. With regard to the part which I did hear, as I have already said, visits are made sometimes in accordance with instructions issued by the Ministry.

Is it not a fact that these men are interrogated by the officials of the Exchange; and, when there are courts of referees and all the rest of it, why should it be necessary to have a spy system in addition?

Really, the hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. These so-called investigations are often quite as much in the interests of the men themselves as for any other purpose. It is very often the case that charges are made which require investigation in the interests of the men.

Are we to understand that the hon. Gentleman agrees that the Employment Exchange officials can make inquiry at a person's home, and, if they find the person not at home, can strike such a person off the fund?

Certainly not. The fact that a man is not at home may show that he is seeking work and may be very much in his interest.

Is it the case that, on the Ministry's instructions, if a man is found at home he can be struck off by the Exchange officials?

Certainly not. A man may be at home for a very good reason. He may be ill, for instance, in which case it is to his interest that the fact should be known.

rose—

We cannot have a Debate.

Mr. Speaker, this is an awfully important matter.

We cannot have the same question put over and over again and exactly the same answer given.

This question is important to the persons in this position, and I am just asking the hon. Gentleman if he will say whether the officials at this Employment Exchange are under the instructions of the Ministry in deciding that a man must be struck off the Fund if they find him at home?

I have answered that already, and I might say, in addition, that it does not rest with the officials as to whether or not a man is struck off.

rose—

Order!

It is the first time the hon. Member has put a question for months, and he cannot get a chance!

The hon. Member cannot take up the time of the House like this. If he is dissatisfied, he must put down another question on the Paper.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the hardship inflicted on unemployed widowers who are deprived of dependant benefit where their daughters are acting as housekeepers, he will consider an early amendment to Section 4, Sub-section 2 (b), of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1927?

The limits within which dependants' benefit ought to be granted under an unemployment insurance scheme, under which persons with dependants pay the same contributions as those without dependants, were carefully considered by the Blanesburgh Committee. The existing law gives effect to the unanimous recommendations of the Committee, and I do not think a case has been made out for reopening the question.

The Blanesburgh Committee is not Parliament, and I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary whether, in view of the experience which has been gained since this Act was put upon the Statute Book, it is not time the amendment which I now suggest was made?

It is true that the Blanesburgh Committee is not Parliament, but Parliament legislated on the lines of the unanimous recommendation of that Committee, and this is one of those recommendations.

Will the hon. Gentleman mind answering the question on the Paper?

That I have already done.

Will the Minister tell us how it is they are always sheltering themselves behind the Blanesburgh Report?

Can the hon. Gentleman not stop sheltering behind this very stupid and foolish Report?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that unemployed men have been deprived of the dependant allowance in respect of their wives in consequence of the latter earning, in some instances, only a few pence per week; and whether he will consider the advisability of amending the law in this regard?

The statutory provision, which has been in force since dependants' benefit was firs; instituted in 1921, is that such benefit is not payable in respect of a wife who is in regular wage-earning employment or is engaged in any occupation ordinarily carried on for profit. Any question arising with regard to it is decided by the statutory authorities. In accordance with the decisions of the umpire, employment averaging less than five days a month or less than eight hours a week is not, for this purpose, regarded as regular wage-earning employment. It may occasionally happen that dependants' benefit is disallowed when the wages or profit earned is small, but I am afraid I do not see how legislation to remedy this could be framed without creating other difficulties.

In view of one or two recent cases where an unemployed man has been deprived of his wife's allowance in consequence of the wife earning as little as 3d. per week, is it not time the Amendment was made?

I am perfectly well aware that the point put by the hon. Member is really a substantial one, but all I can say is that it has been considered both by the Ministry and by the Blanesburgh Committee, and we can see no way of avoiding these difficulties without creating other and worse difficulties.

But if eight hours per week are the minimum, why is it that women have been struck off and refused benefit because they have undertaken two days' charing a week, in the course of which they have worked for only four hours?

I have not that particular case in mind, but the construction of the Act is, of course, subject to the umpire's decision, and I can send to the hon. Member the umpire's decision bearing on that point.

Does it not follow, then, that the Act is operating mere harshly towards women than towards men?

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons who have been transferred from the depressed areas to the Borough of Southwark and obtained employment through the Walworth Road (Borough) Employment Exchange?

The number of men and boys who have been transferred direct from the depressed areas into employment in the area of the Borough Employment Exchange under the Industrial Transference Scheme is 64.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that among the thousands of unemployed in Southwark there are sufficient men and boys to fill these jobs without going to other areas to find them?

I cannot think that this small number would have any appreciable effect. It amounts to less than one in 1,000 of the insured population.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that even 64 people in Southwark could be found work at the Employment Exchanges without bringing in these men from outside areas?

That is really a question of policy, which we have often discussed in debate, and I cannot go into it in answer to a question.

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons have been found employment at the Walworth Road (Borough) Employment Exchange for a period of two weeks or longer during the six months ended 31st January, 1929?

I regret that statistics giving the information desired are not available.

asked the Minister of Labour if his attention has been drawn to the case of Mr. Thomas Ryan, 11, Forge Hammer Row, Cwmbran, near Newport, Mon., who has had his unemployment benefit stopped on the ground that he refused employment at the British Industries Fair; whether he is aware that this man was sent to London, under the transference scheme, and sent to various places by the Shepherds Bush Exchange, including a hotel and the British Industries Fair, where he was informed by the manager that ex-service men were preferred and that no work was available for him, and that he was eventually sent back to his home by the Exchange; and whether he will have inquiries made into the matter?

I have not yet received the necessary report regarding this case, but I will communicate with the hon. Member as soon as possible.

Will the hon. Gentleman grant me an interview to discuss this matter, if his reply is not satisfactory to me?

I will certainly do that. I will communicate with the hon. Member, whom I shall be happy to see, the moment I have the information he desires.

asked the Minister of Labour if he has yet come to any decision as to the continuance or otherwise of what is known as the transition period; if so, what is the nature of his decision; and, if not, can he state when a decision is likely to be arrived at?

My right hon. Friend hopes to be able to make a statement on this subject before the House rises for Easter.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that really that will be cutting it tremendously fine, in view of the anxiety that is felt in many quarters, and cannot the Minister see his way to make the statement at an earlier date than that?

My right hon. Friend is fully mindful of the importance of making a statement on this matter, which is an important one, as soon as possible, and he has undertaken to do that.

What is the special information for which the right hon. Gentleman is waiting to enable him to come to a decision?

The information which is necessary before we legislate or if we legislate—I do not know whether or not we shall—on a very important matter.

But what is the information?

Will this statement be made in time to give an opportunity for discussion?

Yes, certainly.

asked the Minister of Labour if any cases have been brought to his notice of men having been discharged in certain districts and their places taken at reduced rates of pay by miners transferred from distressed areas; and will he inquire into this question?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative, and I do not think a general inquiry on the lines suggested by the hon. Member is practicable. If the hon. Member has any particular case in mind, I shall be glad to inquire into it.

Is it not obvious that if 60 or 70 miners have been sent to Devonport and Plymouth and have been found work there, when there have been 5,000 or 6,000 unemployed there for many years, they must have taken jobs for which those unemployed were waiting?

Yes, but that is not the question the hon. Member asked. He asked whether their places had been taken at reduced rates of pay by miners from distressed areas.

asked the Minister of Labour how many female unemployed persons there were in West Lothian at the last available date; and the number in receipt of benefit?

At 25th February, 1929, there were 264 females on the registers of Employment Exchanges in West Lothian, and of this number, 150 had claims to benefit admitted or under consideration. The total numbers on the registers included 95 uninsured females.

asked the Minister of Labour why the undertaking to enter resident domestic service in exchange for the expenditure of taxpayers' money in training schools for this purpose has been abandoned; and what percentage of the whole and what expenditure has thus been without return?

This requirement was abolished as long ago as January, 1924. I am not in a position to say on what grounds the decision was then taken, but I may point out that such an undertaking is not really enforceable in practice, and experience has shown that since it was abandoned the proportion of trainees entering domestic service has increased.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state, before permits are granted to aliens to take up clerical employment in Britain, what steps are taken to ascertain whether the work could be efficiently done by British subjects unemployed?

Before a permit is issued the employer is required on the form of application to state the steps he has taken to find labour here. In some cases he is required to notify the vacancy to the Local Employment Exchange and in others to get in touch with the local Chamber of Commerce. Apart from young foreigners who are coming here in supernumerary capacities to gain experience, the great majority of the permits issued in respect of clerical employments are for aliens having a knowledge of foreign languages.

Surely the hon. Member knows that when men of this character, to whom a knowledge of languages is essential, are wanted, it is perfectly useless to apply at an Employment Exchange? Is the employment department of the London Chamber of Commerce asked whether it has any suitable persons before aliens are imported?

As I have said in my answer, in some cases they are required to notify the vacancy at an Employment Exchange, and in others to get in touch with the local chamber of commerce.

But can the hon. Member say whether the employment department of the London Chamber of Commerce is asked?

The London Chamber of Commerce or any other chamber of commerce is asked, because we are just as anxious as anybody else that aliens should not be admitted for this kind of work if there are men or women in this country who can do it equally well.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state, of the 4,229 aliens admitted for clerical occupations since 1924, how many permits were for the purpose of taking up work in the British branches of foreign companies and corporations?

I regret that the information required is not available.

Is the hon. Member aware that there is a strong feeling that this is a very large number of aliens to come into this country to take clerical occupations? Since 1924, there have been 4,000. There is a strong feeling that there are plenty of ex-officers and other educated people in this country who could do the work, but that these aliens have been brought in to take the work at cheaper wages.

If that be the impression, I hope the answer I have given will go far to dissipate it.

asked the Minister of Labour the average number of persons registered as unemployed in 1928; whether these were the same individuals; and, if not, the number of separate individuals who registered during the year?

In 1928, the average number of persons on the registers of Employment Exchanges in Great Britain was 1,231,109. Only a small proportion of this total consisted of the same individuals throughout the year. The total number of separate individuals on the register at some time or other during the year was about 4½ millions, or nearly four times the average number at any one date.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he has entered into any arrangement or understanding with the American promoters of the scheme to lay down permanently anchored islands for the use of aircraft at regular intervals across the Atlantic, the first of which is to be started immediately; what are the terms and conditions of their use by British aircraft; whether he will first of all take engineering advice as to the safety of this device; and whether it is to be armed for defence?

I am aware that the scheme referred to by my Noble Friend has been proposed in America, and any development of it will be closely watched by the Air Ministry, but no question has arisen of entering into any arrangement or understanding with its promoters. The answer to the first part of the question is, therefore, in the negative, and the remaining parts do not arise.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he is yet in a position to state when the airship R100 will take the air?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Everton (Colonel Woodcock) on 31st January.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the percentage of accuracy when the correct figures are ultimately known of the estimates as to imports and exports and the balances of income and expenditure in transactions with other countries as published annually in the Board of Trade Journal; and whether the degree of error has been on the conservative or liberal side?

The figures of imports and exports used in the estimate are based on the declarations made to the Customs and are only liable to small corrections. The figures relating to the "invisible" elements in the balances of income and expenditure in transactions with other countries, are arrived at on the best information available at the time, and every endeavour is made not to overestimate. But this is not a case in which a percentage of accuracy can be calculated. I would refer my Noble Friend to the article on the Balance of Trade in the current issue of the Board of Trade Journal, in which are stated such corrections as have been made in the estimates for 1926 and 1927, and the reasons for their adoption.

Is it not my hon. Friend's experience that the degree of error is generally greater on the Liberal side than on the Conservative side?

Can the hon. Member say whether under the heading of invisible exports the transfer of the Lloyd George Fund to the Liberal party is included?

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has any information as to the prices of packing paper before and after safeguarding; and whether there has been any increase of price since the industry was safeguarded?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given by the President of the Board of Trade on 11th December to the hon. Member for Peckham (Mr. Dalton), of which I am sending him a copy.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary able to say whether the wages in this industry have been raised?

That does not arise out of the question.

asked the Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department in what countries Government monopolies have been set up in petrol; and in what countries do the Governments control petrol prices or themselves engage in refining or marketing mineral oil products?

I am advised that the oil industry in Russia is completely under Government control and that there is a Government monopoly in petrol in Spain. I know of no other countries where petrol prices are controlled. The Governments of Egypt and of the Argentine engage to a limited extent in the refining of crude oil.

Is it not a fact that the French Government also subsidises its own oil-refining plants?

Not to my knowledge.

Is the monopoly in this country under any control?

I know of no monopoly.

Are not these monopolies in strict accordance with the recommendations of the Samuel Commission Report?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the total export and the value of coffee from Tanganyika; and what is the proportion of native-grown coffee for the year 1920 and for the last year for which complete returns are available?

131,899 cwts. of coffee, to the value of £463,420, were exported from the Territory in 1927. 208,622 cwts. were exported during 1928, but the value of this total has not yet been reported. I regret that no information is available which would enable an estimate to be made of the proportion of native-grown coffee in the total amount exported in 1920. In 1927, native-grown coffee mainly from Bukoba constituted roughly three-quarters of the total tonnage exported.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how the quality of the native-grown coffee compares with that of the non-native-grown?

That is a different question.

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether any payment is made by the Empire Marketing Board to the owners of sites on which the Board's posters are displayed?

Payments from the Empire Marketing Fund are made in a limited number of these cases.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many boards there are?

Not without notice.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether any steps are to be taken to carry out the recommendations of the 1924 Committee, presided over by Lord Mackenzie, to inquire into the trawling and policing of Scottish sea fisheries; and whether, as this Committee recommended greater stringency in regard to the closing and protection of the Clyde and the Moray Firth against the depredations of the trawlers and the keeping out of these areas of foreign trawlers by international agreement, he will say why no steps have been taken to secure the prohibition, if need be, by laying the matter before the League of Nations?

In addition to measures taken to strengthen the protection fleet, attention has been given, as recommended by the Mackenzie Committee, to the situation in the Moray Firth. At the request of the British Government a Committee of the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea was appointed to consider whether the prohibition of trawling in that area should be continued, modified, or extended. The Report of this Committee recommends, on scientific grounds, a closure only of part of the area for part of the year both to trawling and to seining. The Report has been made public and is receiving consideration. Apart from this, the whole question of the extent of territorial waters is now under consideration by a Committee of the League of Nations.

The Secretary of State for Scotland did not mention the Clyde. Do I understand that the answer applies only to the Moray Firth?

As far as regards the main question, yes.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, as the Fishery Board for Scotland has proposed, subject to confirmation by the Secretary of State, to throw open to trawling an area of the Clyde hitherto closed to trawling by British subjects, and as this proposal has caused anxiety amongst the Scottish people, he will at once cause the proposal to be withdrawn, in view of the findings of Lord Mackenzie's Committee for greater stringency and exclusion of trawling from Scottish waters, which findings have never been called in question by any inquiry of like standing and publicity?

The proposal to which my hon. and learned Friend refers is the result of a very careful survey of all relevant factors by the Fishery Board for Scotland, and I am not prepared, without due consideration, to reject it. I am aware, however, that even the limited relaxation proposed has aroused considerable opposition, and my hon. Friend may rest assured that the objections which have been received will be fully examined. The findings of the Committee referred to will be kept carefully in view in this connection. I fully appreciate the desirability of an early decison.

With a view to satisfying the popular view and the fishermen, will the Secretary of State, if he finds that there is any proposal to change which is likely to upset the findings of the Lord Mackenzie Committee, set up a powerful and potent Committee to make a fresh investigation into this question before he sanctions the regulations?

Is it not a fact that the people who are suffering most on account of these restrictions are the Scottish fishermen and not the English fishermen?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the objections to the proposed removal of restrictions in the Clyde area to which he refers are equally strong if not stronger in the Moray Firth area?

Is the Secretary of State for Scotland not aware that this trawler business is the same thing that caused our trouble with Russia, and will he have due regard to the fishermen round the Scottish coast who are being deprived of their means of livelihood? Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to take similar steps to send these trawlers back to Hull and Grimsby?

Is the Secretary of State for Scotland aware that the hon. Member for Dumbarton Burghs (Mr. Kirkwood) knows nothing about the business?

Will the Secretary of State take into consideration the expert advice and conclusions come to, not only theoretically, but from the experience of expert fishermen in the Clyde area, as to the beam and otter trawling proposed by the Government?

This question deals solely with the Clyde, from which area I am still receiving representations. As soon as I have received all the representations, as well as the Report of the Fishery Board on those representations, I shall come to a decision.

In view of the importance of this question, will the right hon. Gentleman give an opportunity of debating it in the House before the regulations are issued?

Will the Secretary of State for Scotland see that the English trawlers are not penalised to any greater extent than the foreign trawlers?

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that already a trawler from the constituency of one of the Gentlemen opposite has been fined for anticipating the coming into effect of these regulations, and will the principle of any such regulation applied to the Clyde also be applicable to the Moray Firth?

rose—

Any further questions must be put down on the Order Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on what date the national egg-mark for Scotland will come into operation?

It is hoped to introduce the national mark for Scottish produced eggs on 1st June next.

Does the Secretary of State estimate that the producers of Scottish eggs are likely to benefit by the introduction of the national egg mark?

Yes, sir; I certainly hope that they will.

Would it be possible to accelerate the date—[Interruption.]—on account of the fact that the coming into operation of the English mark has already introduced a great deal of competition from English eggs in the Glasgow market.

I should be glad to see the date accelerated in that way. This is a voluntary arrangement, and application has already been made for registration on that date.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see to it that third-class eggs are marked with the Scottish national motto?

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in view of the continuous overtime worked by the taxes branch of the Inland Revenue Department, it is proposed to make such addition to the staff as would render overtime unnecessary?

It should, perhaps, be explained to my hon. Friend that the amount of overtime recorded last year was less than one-half of the working time of one clerk per district. All that is possible is done to reduce overtime, but, owing to seasonal pressure, some overtime is always necessary. It would not be proper to maintain staff constantly at a number corresponding to the absolute peak of a variable work load.

Is not this overtime due to the sending of large numbers of red letters to individual taxpayers?

Will my hon. Friend consider reducing taxation instead of adding to the staff?

Would not many individual taxpayers be very much relieved if considerably less overtime were worked?