asked the Minister of Labour what is now the position in regard to the transfers from necessitous areas of unemployed people; whether this policy of transfer is still to be carried out; whether the conditions of employment in any of the towns which accepted such transfers have changed for the worse; and, if so, whether he contemplates the return of the people concerned to their own districts?

Transference of unem- ployed persons from the depressed areas takes place as suitable opportunites of employment for them can be found elsewhere, though progress has been retarded by the adverse employment conditions which have effected nearly all districts. I propose to continue this policy to the fullest extent that is practicable. As regards the last part of the question, the depressed areas are still, generally speaking, the hardest hit by unemployment and proposals for organising any return of workers to them could not be seriously contemplated.

asked the Minister of Labour if be proposes to take steps to ascertain the number of aliens who are now receiving unemployment benefit?

I doubt whether the detailed inquiries which would be necessary for this purpose would justify the expense incurred.

Is it not most important to know whether we are keeping aliens in this country in our present financial condition, who might be exported to other countries which are still on the gold standard?

I would remind my hon. Friend that permits for the admission of aliens are very closely scrutinised. To make a detailed inquiry, as I am asked to do in the question, would involve unnecessary expense.

Surely, those terms do not permit aliens to draw unemployment insurance allowances'?

The hon. Member must not debate the matter.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the inquiries into the possibility of providing adequate Employment Exchange facilities to serve the steadily growing population of the Erdington Division initiated by his predecessor are being pursued, and when a definite pronouncement may be expected on the matter?

These inquiries are being pursued both in relation to Erdington and to other districts in the Birmingham area, as to which requests for additional Exchange accommodation have been received. I cannot at present say when a decision will be reached.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons in receipt of transitional benefit within the Barnsley Exchange; and, if possible, the number that will be affected within the County Borough of Barnsley separately, distinguished from the total Exchange area that will be affected under the Economies Bill?

At 21st September, 1931, there were on the register of the Barnsley Employment Exchange 2,783 persons, including 211 women, with claims authorised for transitional benefit. Separate statistics are not available in respect of persons residing within the County Borough of Barnsley.

Is it not possible to obtain the information with regard to the Borough of Barnsley separate from the general Exchange figures, which include parts of the West Riding?

I will see if that can be done, and, if so, I will let the hon. Member know.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can state the estimated number of persons in Great

asked the Minister of Labour (1) if he will state the number of persons in receipt of transitional benefit signing on at each of the local Employment Exchanges supervised from Wigan and at the Exchanges supervised from St.

I regret that the available information is insufficient to enable a satisfactory estimate to be made.

Can the hon. Gentleman not give us any idea?

This question was constantly before my predecessor, and she came to the conclusion, rightly, I think, that anything like a mere guess, which is all that we can do, would be of no use to the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons within the areas of the Frome, Radstock, Midsomer Norton, Keynsham, Chew Magna, and Peasdown Employment Exchanges at present in receipt of unemployment,benefit, and the number at present in receipt of transitional benefit who under the Government's proposals will be referred to the public assistance committee for calculation of their rate of benefit?

As the reply includes a table of figures I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Labour if he can state the total number of unemployed in the county of Durham who will have to appear before the public assistance committee when the proposed Order in Council comes into force?

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state the number of persons in the county of Durham at present in receipt of unemployment benefit paid for the week ended 8th August; and the number in receipt of transitional benefit who, under the Government's proposal, will be referred to the public assistance committee for the calculation of their rate of benefit?

Statistics are not available showing the number now in receipt of benefit who received benefit during the week ended 8th August, 1931. At 21st September, 1931, there were 148,511 persons with claims admitted or under consideration on the registers of Employment Exchanges in the County of Durham, including 33,597 men and 1,725 women with claims authorised for transitional benefit. Of those in receipt of benefit other than transitional benefit at 14th September, 1931, 22,340 men and 1,299 women had received 156 days or

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Labour the cumber of unemployed persons registered at the Lincoln Employment Exchange who will be required to submit their claims for unemployment insurance benefit to the Poor Law authorities; and if he can state separately the numbers of men and women claimants who will be affected by the terms of the National Economy Bill?

At 21st September, 1931, there were 4,445 men and 386 women with claims admitted or under consideration on the register of the Lincoln Employment Exchange, of whom 1,114 men and 67 women had claims authorised for transitional benefit. Of those in receipt of benefit other than transitional benefit at 14th September, 1931, 668 men and 55 women had received 156 days or more in their current benefit years.

asked the Minister of Labour how many unemployed persons are registered at Warrington and how many of these have drawn 26 or more weeks' benefit during the present benefit year, giving the figures for the last week for which both sets are available or for which a reliable estimate can be made?

At 21st September, 1931, there were 8,351 persons on the register of the Warrington Employment Exchange. This number included 839 men and 128 women with claims authorised for transitional benefit. Of those in receipt of benefit other than transitional benefit at 14th September, 1931, 896 men and 242 women had received 156 days or more in their current benefit years.

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of unemployed in the borough of Islington to the latest convenient date, and the number now receiving transitional benefit?

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state what are the present rates of unemployment pay for men, women, boys, and girls in Germany, Belgium and France; and what family allowances are given in addition?

As regards Germany, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given on 16th July last to a

At 14th September, 1931, there were 15,978 persons resident in the Metropolitan Borough of Islington on the registers of Employment Exchanges. The number of persons receiving transitional benefit resident in that borough is not available, but at 21st September there were 2,270 such persons on the registers of the Holloway and King's Cross Exchanges.

asked the Minister of Labour how many applications for unemployment benefit have been disallowed by the courts of referees at Pontefract, Castleford, and Goole during the past three months, and the reasons for such disallowance?

As the reply includes a table of figures I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the hon. Gentleman consider circulating his reply to hon. Members, especially hon. Members opposite, as an object lesson of what other countries are doing?

Will the hon. Gentleman send the information regarding the insurance paid to boys in Germany to the other House, especially to Lord Buckmaster?

asked the Minister of Labour whether the limit of 26 weeks' unemployment benefit and the means test, as proposed by the Economy Bill, will be applied to disabled ex-service men who have not been able to compete on favourable terms in the labour market?

asked the Minister of Labour if it is proposed to include income from war pensions, workmen's compensation, light rate compensation, and similar sources among the means which may debar an applicant with 26 weeks' benefit in a benefit year from further benefit; and, in cases where workmen's compensation has been paid as a lump sum, will a computation of its weekly income value be included?

It is contemplated that in considering the case of an applicant for transitional payments, public assistance authorities should take all his circumstances into account in the same manner as they would if they were dealing with an able-bodied applicant for public assistance. The position of men in receipt of disability pensions requiring public assistance was carefully considered by the late Minister of Health and it is laid down in his circular of January, 1930, that

"where certain classes of income are concerned, such, for example, as disability pensions or blind pensions, the disability in respect of which the pension has been awarded may be such as to call for a greater measure of assistance than would be normally appropriate."

I should point out also that disabled ex-service men are eligible for insurance benefit on paying 10 contributions instead of the normal 30, and the reduced contribution qualification normally applying to transitional benefit is in their case abolished altogether. As regards Workmen's Compensation cases, I understand that it is the practice of the public, assistance authorities to treat such cases when they consider it proper on lines similar to those laid down with regard to disability pensions.

Are we to understand that, in regard to men who are partially incapacitated as the result of accident while following their normal occupation, any sums received as compensation will be ignored by the public assistance committee in assessing need?

I would advise the hon. Member to look at the circular issued by the late Minister of Health of which I will send him a copy. So far as I am concerned, I have no intention whatever of interfering with the sympathetic administration which he then laid down.

Is the hon. Gentleman going to take steps to secure uniformity or is he going to leave the matter entirely to the discretion of the public assistance committees? Will he take no action in eases where the public assistance committees are not sympathetic?

In this matter, I am pursuing exactly the policy which was followed by the last Minister of Health.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, at the expiration of 26 weeks' benefit, the payment is continued until the public assistance committee's decision is known; and, if so, at what rate?

In the initial stages it is proposed to continue these payments, pending assessment, at the full revised rate of benefit, provided that the claimant satisfies the other conditions which are applicable. Subsequently, arrangements will be made to continue payments in case of emergency for a short period at the appropriate rate in order to allow time for assessment.

What will be the position where a public assistance committee refuses to carry out the regulations?

We shall take every precaution to ensure that the difficulty indicated in the question and the supplementary question is dealt with.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, when an unemployed man exhausts the 26 weeks' benefit, his case is referred to the court of referees before being sent to the public assistance committee for assessment?

If in such cases a claim for transitional payment is made and a question arises as to satisfaction of the conditions, other than the needs test, for such payments, this question will be decided by a court of referees. Otherwise there will be no question for a court of referees to decide.

Does that mean that the case will be dealt with by the court of referees before it is passed on to the public assistance committee?

Any question which may arise as to satisfaction of the conditions is clearly a case for the court of referees.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange for unemployed men and women on transitional benefit to be notified two weeks before it ceases in order that time may be given to make the necessary adjustments of expenditure in the domestic budget?

I have every sympathy with the object of this question and will do my best to carry it out.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that there are many cases of unemployed men on transitional benefit who are at present, and have been for many years, buying their houses by instalments, and who on account of the new proposals as to transitional benefit are anxious to know what their position will be with regard to the means test; and whether he will circularise public assistance committees for their guidance in this matter?

I am aware of the cases referred to. The obligations of such a man whether by way of payment of instalments of purchase price or of rent are taken into account by the public assistance authorities in assessing his needs for purposes of assistance. The same practice will apply in regard to persons in receipt of transitional payments.

Has the hon. Gentleman any information showing that men who are on the dole have started purchasing their houses? [Interruption.]

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that an organised and well conducted demonstration of unemployed people attended the Labour Exchange at Derby, on Monday last, and presented a written protest against the cuts in unemployed benefit, and that the manager of the Exchange declined to forward that protest to the Ministry; and whether he will give instructions that such protests are to be forwarded?

I am having inquiries made in this matter and will communicate the result to the hon. Member.

asked the Prime Minister whether it is proposed to use the powers conferred upon the Minister of Labour by the National Economy Bill to meet any increase in the cost of living by increasing Unemployment Insurance benefits without delay?

(Mr. Ramsay MacDonald): No, Sir. The powers under the Act would not enable such action to be taken.

In view of the great stress which is being laid upon the argument that the unemployed would be 1 per cent. better off after the cuts than they were in 1929, what steps does the right hon. Gentleman propose to take to ensure that they shall not be worse off than in 1929; and what is the machinery for that purpose?

That point was fully answered in a recent Debate on the subject.

May I ask whether, in the event of a substantial increase in the cost of living affecting unemployed persons, the Government will be prepared to consider the position?

That is a purely hypothetical question.

In view of recent developments, cannot the right hon. Gentleman now make some concession in the direction of restoring unemployment benefit to the old figure?

Following the right hon. Gentleman's reply regarding the cost of living, may I ask if he is aware that rents, which enter largely into the budgets of working-class housewives, have in many cases increased by 100 per cent.; and what provision is he going to make to change that state of affairs so as to fit in with his own statement about 1½ per cent.?

asked the Minister of Labour how many men are at present employed on work schemes in the county of Durham which have received financial assistance from the State; and what are the total commitments since June, 1929, giving the liability of the State and local authorities, respectively?

On the 28th August, the latest date for which information is available, 4,864 men were employed directly on the site of schemes being undertaken in the county of Durham with assistance from the various grant-making Departments. The estimated total cost of schemes submitted by local authorities in the county since 1st June, 1929, is £4,708,943. The proportion of assistance given from State funds varies with the nature of the scheme, and I am not in a position to give the amounts borne by the State and local authorities respectively.

Can the hon. Gentleman give approximate us any idea?

In this and similar questions I always feel that it is wise to give figures upon which one can stand. A mere guess may be very misleading to the hon. Member.

I do not ask for a guess. I am asking for some approximate figure.

I cannot give it.

Do the figures given apply to the whole county of Durham, including the county boroughs?

They apply to the county of Durham; that is the whole county.

Does that include the boroughs as well?

Yes, I think so.

Including the borough of Sunderland?

I think it includes the borough of Sunderland, but, if not, I will let the hon. Member know. At present I am advised that it includes the whole county.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the new regulations for the guidance of public assistance committees in the administration of unemployment insurance transitional benefit under the National Economy Bill have been completed; and on what date they are to be laid before Parliament?

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make the new regulations issued to the public assistance committees available to Members of the House?

These regulations cannot be made until the relevant Order-in-Council has been made. The regulations will be laid before Parliament as soon as possible thereafter.

Will these regulations contain an instruction for uniformity of administration in connection with transitional benefit?

The hon. Member had better wait and see the regulations.

No. I want to know whether it is the policy of the Government to promote uniformity in administration?

If the hon. Member means whether we are going to ask public assistance committees to have some uniform scale the answer is in the negative.

No. A considerable number of Poor Law authorities, about half of them, do not grant relief to able-bodied unemployed men, and I want to ask the hon. Gentleman whether he will see that the position of these men is protected in the regulations?

I have told the hon. Member that there will be no difference in policy in this matter from that contained in the circular issued by the late Minister of Health. If the hon. Member will read that circular and has then any further questions to ask, perhaps he will put them down.

Does the right hon. Gentleman contemplate laying these regulations while Parliament is sitting?

In regard to that matter, the hon. Member for Chester-le-Street (Mr. Lawson), and the hon. Member for Lincoln (Mr. R. A. Taylor) the night before last raised what I thought were very important questions which would have to be considered. We are considering the points raised, and, until they have been considered, obviously we cannot lay the regulations.

asked the Minister of Labour if, in view of the conditions prevailing at the Employment Exchange, Freemasons Road, Custom House, he will consider the advisability of erecting a shelter to protect registered applicants from bad weather; if he is aware of the absence of any sanitary convenience, either for men or women, in or adjacent to the Exchange; and if he will take steps to remedy this?

If applicants attending the Canning Town Employment Exchange in Freemasons Road, would observe the timing system, there should be no need for them to wait outside the building. I cannot undertake responsibility for the provision of public conveniences in connection with Employment Exchanges but I understand that public conveniences are available for men and women 150 yards from the Exchange and for men only at 600 yards distance.

asked the Prime Minister whether any Minister is specially charged with the duty of preparing schemes for the relief of unemployment; and to whom should questions be addressed in Parliament on matters of general policy dealing with unemployment?

The answer to the first part of the question is for the moment in the negative. Each De- partmental Minister will be responsible under the Cabinet for matters arising within his own field, and questions relating to particular matters should be addressed to the Departmental Ministers concerned. When general policy is involved, the questions should be addressed to me.

With regard to the right hon. Gentleman's answer to the first part of the question, is it intended to appoint a special Minister when the policy has been settled?

When the policy is settled, the consequence will be taken.

When will the policy be settled?

Arising out of the original reply, seeing that this winter we are going to have more unemployment than formerly, will the right hon. Gentleman bend his mind to making some provision to meet that situation when it does occur?

That is a new point. Perhaps my hon. Friend will put the question on the Paper.

asked the Minister of Health whether unemployed workers will be automatically deprived of National Health Insurance benefits should the public assistance committee, under the means test, deprive them of further unemployment benefit; and, if not, what steps will be taken to keep them entitled to health insurance benefit and, in particular, whether their health insurance contributions will still be payable by the State?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. So long as a person remains insured under the National Health Insurance Acts he will continue to be entitled to benefits in accordance with the provisions of those Acts and will not be subject to penalties for arrears of contributions in respect of weeks for which satisfactory proof of unemployment is produced.

asked the Minister of Health whether an unem- ployed person, who has received 26 weeks unemployment benefit, and who is subsequently transferred on to transitional unemployment benefit, will have his National Health Insurance contribution card franked each week by the public assistance committee whilst in receipt of such benefit?

In the circumstances stated the unemployed person would be entitled to have his health insurance contribution card franked in the usual way at the Employment Exchange. It is not proposed to transfer to public assistance committees the duty of franking cards.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is considerable confusion not only among the unemployed but also among the medical profession on this point; and will he take steps to see that the matter is made quite plain?

I was not aware of that, but I hope that the answer which I have given will serve to make it plain.

asked the Home Secretary whether it is proposed to recommend the councils of cities and boroughs in England to consider the question of making cuts in the salaries of recorders and other judicial officers paid out of borough funds in order to secure equality of treatment with His Majesty's Judges?

As respects local expenditure such as this, which does not involve any charge upon the Exchequer, the attitude of the Government has been defined in a circular issued by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health on the 11th September; and I should not feel justified in going beyond the terms of that circular.

Will anything that the Government do also apply to King's Counsel?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the aggregate amount anticipated to be saved by the reduction of 20 per cent. of judges' salaries?

The saving involved in the reduction of the salaries of His Majesty's Judges is approximately £50,000 in a full year.

Does that apply to the High Court Judges only?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what has been the amount each year received by the Treasury for Death Duties from the commencement of their imposition to the year ended the 5th April, 1931, with the rates current for each year?

I must point out to the hon. Member that in addition to the Estate Duty which dates from 1894 the Death Duties include the Legacy and Succession Duties which date back to the close of the 18th century. If, as I imagine, the hon. Member is concerned with the yield and rates in more recent times he will find the information in the annual reports of the Commissioners of Inland Revenue. In particular I would refer him to the 65th and 73rd reports which contain statistics covering the years from 1910 to 1930.

Will the right hon. Gentleman publish an account of the amount received in Death Duties and the rates?

I think that the hon. Gentleman did not hear the last part of my answer in which I referred him to the reports of the Commissioners of Inland Revenue, dealing with the years 1910 to 1930; he will get the information there.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Treasury can state, approximately, what new savings, for the purpose of building up and accumulating fresh capital for investment, or industry, have been made by the Income Tax and Super-tax payers to compensate for the money received from Death Duties by the Government and spent as income?

I am afraid I can do no more than refer my hon. Friend to the investigation into national saving made in their Report by the Colwyn Committee on National Debt and Taxation.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the amount of taxation per head, expressed in sterling, for the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, and the United States, respectively, for the year 1913–14 and for each year from 1921 to date?

With the hon. Member's permission I will circulate a tabular statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In circulating the figures will the right hon. Gentleman—[Interruption].

Order!

We should get on much more quickly if hon. Gentlemen did not make so much noise. Mr. Wise!

In preparing the figures, will the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to give, if possible, the comparative taxation at various incomes so as to get comparable figures rather than a general average?

The tabular statement which I shall circulate is a full reply to the question on the Paper.

Does it include local and provincial taxes as well as national taxes?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the amount of debt owed by France to Britain on the let September, 1931, and the rate of interest being paid on such debt; whether any proposals were made to the French Government to make an advance to Britain at the same rate of interest when it was required recently to raise credits in Paris; and, if not, why not?

In reply to the first part of the question I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Dumbarton Burghs (Mr. Kirkwood) on Tuesday last; the answer to the second part of the question is in the negative.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchquer, seeing that taxpayers with incomes of £50,000 a year are left with a deficit of £3,000 after paying all taxes and insurances, while taxpayers with in-

The hon. Member had better wait and see it.

Is it comparative?—[Interruption.]—May I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the courtesy of a reply.

Sir Cooper Rawson!

There must be some flaw in the hon. Member's argument, which seems to reach the absurd conclusion that it is possible to charge the taxpayer less and to collect more from him for the Exchequer.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that, according to the figures given by him in this House six or eight days ago, a deficit of £3,000 a year on incomes of £50,000 a year would, if the incomes were reduced to £25,000 a year, pay a surplus of £4,000 to the taxpayer?

That is an exact repetition of the hon. Member's question on the Paper, which I described as reaching an absurd conclusion.

If the right hon. Gentleman now believes that these figures are an absurdity, why did he give them a week ago when he knew they were absurd?

The figures that I gave are perfectly correct; the absurdity arises from the construction which the hon. Gentleman puts upon them.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the number of countries which have discontinued the Gold Standard since 28th September, 1931; and whether any effort has been made since that date to convene an international conference for the purpose of fixing an international standard of exchange?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to him on Monday last, to which I have nothing to add.

Now that other countries have definitely decided to go off the Gold Standard, does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise, in view of the precarious state of the exchange, that it is time that either this country or some other country brought about an international conference for the purpose of stabilising the exchanges?

I gave a full reply to that question to the hon. Member the other day.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say if this country is not prepared to convene an international conference on the question because of his intriguing friends behind him?

I have expressed more than once the willingness of His Majesty's Government to enter into such a conference.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount paid to the North of Ireland Unemployment Insurance Fund during the last five years; and whether it is proposed to make any reduction this year?

I presume that the payments to which the hon. Member refers are those made by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom to the Exchequer of Northern Ireland under the provisions of the Unemployment Insurance (Northern Ireland Agreement) Acts, 1926 and 1929. The total amount of such payments in respect of the five years from the 1st April, 1926, to the 31st March, 1931, was £2,527,056. The method of calculation of the payments is laid down in the Agreement scheduled to the Act of 1926. The payment last year was £521,484, and while it is impossible at the present stage to give a firm estimate of the payment this year I should anticipate a reduction by at least a hall.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether any new arrangement has been made with regard to the salaries of the Law Officers of the Crown; and, if so, what it is?

Yes, Sir. The salary of the Attorney-General will be reduced from £7,000 to £2,000 and the salary of the Solicitor-General from £6,000 to £2,000.

In view of the fact that the fees are much greater than the salary, is there any intention to make a reduction of the fees?

That is a most ungenerous way of receiving the announcement of these reductions of salary.

Are we to understand that the suggestion comes from the other side, that the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General should engage in professional blacklegging?

What are the trade union rates for these fees?

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will consider the advisability of reimposing, for Revenue purposes, the admission fee of one penny to Kew Gardens which was abolished in August, 1929?

I have had this question under consideration, and I have decided to reimpose as from Monday morning next this admission fee of a penny, except on students' days (Tuesday and Friday) when the admission fee will continue to be sixpence, and on the four Bank Holidays (Easter Monday, Whit-Monday, August Bank Holiday and Boxing Day), when admission will be free.

How much do the Government expect to get from this change?

It is estimated that it will bring in at least £3,500.

Will that fee of one penny be charged when classes from elementary schools are taken to Kew?

It will be charged, on the days when it is on, to everybody.

Will Scrooge be the caretaker?

Will it be another penny to walk on the grass?

asked the Secretary for Mines what will be the amount of the cut in the salary of the chairman of the Coal Reorganisation Commission?

Immediately the economy proposals of the Government with regard to the salaries of public servants were announced, the chairman of the Coal Mines Reorganisation Commission asked that during the present emergency an abatement of 20 per cent. (i.e., £1,400 a year) might be made from the salary payable to him. His offer has been gratefully accepted, and the reduction takes effect from to-day.

Was that done in consultation with Mr. Montagu Norman, of the Bank of England?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether, seeing that the carrying out of the reorganisation of village schools under the Hadow Report into senior and junior schools situated in different villages is likely to cause the disintegration and break up of village life, and that the provision of such schools and alteration of existing schools will result in heavy cost, he will have the carrying out of the Hadow Report suspended, at any rate so far as village schools are concerned?