asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the volume of unemployment among British musicians, he can state the numbers of these artistes who at the present time come under the operation of the Unem- ployment Insurance Acts; and what steps the Employment Exchanges are accustomed to take to stimulate the employment of these men?

I regret that separate figures are not available regarding the number of musicians insured under the Unemployment Insurance Acts. Every effort is made by the Employment Exchanges to bring musicians who are registered as unemployed into touch with suitable employment.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give the latest figures available from the Leigh, Atherton and Tyldesley Employment Exchanges, showing the number of cases dealt with by the public assistance committee for transitional payments; how many have received full benefits; how many less than full benefits; and the number totally disallowed?

Between 12th November, 1931, and 23rd January, 1932, the Leigh public assistance committee gave determinations on 8,078 applications for transitional payment. In 2,142 cases payment was allowed at the normal benefit rates, and in 4,097 eases at lower rates, while in 1,839 cases the needs of applicants were held not to justify payment being made. The figures include renewals and revisions of determinations, and the number of separate individuals concerned is not available.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give the latest figures available from the Lancashire County Council showing the number of eases submitted to them from the Employment Exchanges under the terms of transitional benefit; how many have been allowed full benefits; how many less than the full amount; the number disallowed altogether; and how the figures compare with the general average of the country?

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

If I can prove to the right hon. Gentleman that there is a disparity in the cases allowed and disallowed between one county and another, will he be prepared to meet representations on the matter?

I should be very glad to see the hon. Member or to receive any communication from him.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has received any report from the Employment Exchange concerned in connection with the transitional payment due to Mr. J. G. Forster, of West Allotment, Northumberland, which has been withheld?

I understand that Mr. Forster did not attend before the public assistance committee when summoned, and did not send an explanation until after the committee had dealt with his application. This is a particular case of a difficulty which I will deal with in reply to the next question which my hon. Friend has on the Paper.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider amending legislation to ensure that where legitimate reason is shown, such as the resumption of work, transitional payment shall not be withheld because applicants fail to appear before public assistance committees when requested to do so?

If an applicant gives a legitimate reason for not attending when summoned before a public assistance committee, I have no reason to suppose that the committee would not make arrangements to hear him at some other time, and no difficulty should arise in such cases. Difficulty has arisen, as my hon. Friend knows, in cases where the applicant has given no reason for not

With all these questions regarding the means test, does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that it is time for him to revise this scheme?

Will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of making some arrangements in this case for evening meetings?

I will consider that so far as it is in my power, but I do not know whether it is or is not.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will consider introducing legislation to prevent public assistance committees from taking disability pensions into consideration when ex-service men apply for transitional payment?

I cannot add anything to the reply given to the hon. and gallant Member for St. Pancras North (Captain Fraser) on 3rd December last.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, whereas in some instances public assistance committees deal with these cases generously, in other cases they treat them extremely harshly, and will he be prepared to lay down a scale of uniformity as a guide to these committees in the interest of the ex-service men?

No, Sir. That question has often been asked, and I have often given the answer that I have no power to lay down such a Regulation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not prepared to raise the matter with the Cabinet, because this is very serious? You may see that hon. Members from every side of the House are putting questions about it.

As a pure matter of policy, would it not be advisable for the Government to try to satisfy the country that steps are being taken which will give justice to these men?

I think, in answer to that question, that we have gone a very long way in the last few weeks towards satisfying the country in this matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a large number of Members in this House do not want uniformity, if such uniformity follows the actions of southern public assistance committees?

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that some public assistance committees are still associating Poor Law methods and phraseology with the administration of the means test; and what steps he is taking to discourage this practice?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that cases have occurred where public assistance committees have questioned applicants for transitional payments as to the efforts

Is not a disability pension merely putting a man who is injured on a par with an able-bodied man, and is it not right that the Government should see that a man is not disqualified from getting his pension owing to his disability?

The question which my hon. Friend has just asked is just one of those questions which, I know, is being considered by the Royal Commission, and I await their report with interest.

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons, men and women, have had their claims for transitional unemployment payments dealt with by the London public assistance committees up to the latest date available; how many are still receiving full payments; how many have been reduced; and in how many cases no payments are being made?

As the reply includes a. table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

:I would remind the hon. Members that under Article 1 (4) of the Order-in-Council an authority is required, in determining the need of an applicant for transitional payments, to make such inquiries and otherwise deal with the case as if they were estimating the need of an unemployed able-bodied person who had applied for public assistance. I see no reason to interfere with the practice of authorities in this matter.

Is it the intention of the Minister, that these people should be made to feel that they are being dealt with as if they were under the Poor Law?

No. As I have often explained, every step has been taken to differentiate between them and Poor Law cases and to avoid that very stigma to which the hon. Member refers.

If I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to cases where this is being done, will he look into them?

I shall be glad to consider any cases.

asked the Minister of Labour how many cases for transition payments have been dealt with by the Doncaster public assistance committee and the West Riding (Yorks) public assistance committee to the latest date for which figures are available; how many cases have full benefits been allowed; in how many cases partial benefits; and how many applicants have failed to sustain any claim?

Between 12th November, 1931, and 23rd January, 1932, the Doncaster Public Assistance Committee gave determinations on 2,305 applications for transitional payments. In 1,305 cases payment was allowed at the normal benefit rates, and in 758 cases at lower rates, while in 242 cases the needs of applicants were held not to justify payments being made. The figures include renewals and revisions and the number of separate individuals concerned is not available. Corresponding figures for the West Riding administrative county were given in reply to a similar question by the hon. Member for Roth-well (Mr. Lunn) on 4th February.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that inspectors are informing certain public assistance committees that savings of £20 to £100 in banks, co-operative societies, war savings certificates, etc., must be exhausted before any transitional payments are awarded; that the public assistance committees desire simply to calculate interest on such savings as income; and if he will state the policy of his Department on this matter?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the communication sent to him from the Isle of Ely and other county councils asking him if he will issue definite regulations to public assistance committees with a view to ensuring uniformity of practice in assessing capital assets, disability pensions, etc., in connection with the means test; and what action he intends to take?

The considerations which may properly be borne in mind by public assistance authorities in determining the need of applicants who are in possession of investments and savings, or in receipt of disability pensions, were brought to their notice in a circular issued from my Department on 10th November last. I have also dealt fully with the position of applicants in receipt of disability pensions in reply to questions in the House. 1 cannot add anything to the circular and to my replies.

The question asked is whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that when the committees exercise their right to interpret the means test, the inspector of his Department and the Ministry of Health have interfered?

I have no information as to this, and, if the hon. Member will give me any particulars, I shall be glad to look into them.

As there is a wide lack of uniformity on this point, will not my right hon. Friend take powers to ensure uniformity?

That question has been answered before.

asked the Minister of Labour if any break occurs in the receiving of payment. by a person who has been granted transitional benefit but whose case had not been considered under the means test by the public assistance committee?

A person whose application for transitional payments has been allowed by the insurance officer, or, in case of doubt, by the court of referees, must satisfy the public assistance committee as to his needs; but pending a determination by the committee, payment may be made for six days, and there is also provision for an interim determination covering two more weeks if inquiries cannot be completed meanwhile. Under these arrangements there should normally be no delay in making each payment when due. I shall be glad to make inquiry into any case that the hon. Member may with to bring to my notice.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that an inspector, Mr. Grant, told a Durham public assistance committee, on 29th January, 1932, that they must deal with the means test cases on a Poor Law basis, and threatened if they did not they would be supplanted by appointed guardians; and whether he proposes to adopt such a policy?

The Order-in-Council requires that a committee dealing with an application for transitional payments shall deal with the case as if they were estimating the need of an unemployed able-bodied person who had applied for public assistance. I am informed that the inspector did no more than he was bound to do in explaining the law and the powers of supersession possessed by the Minister of Labour.

Will the Minister answer the latter part of my question?

The hon. Member will find the reply to the latter part of the question in what I have said in answer to the first part. In so far as it is not replied to in answer to the first part, it does not arise.

Does the Minister mean to supplant the Poor Law guardians if they do not carry out the means test on a Poor Law basis?

The hon. Member must draw no such implication. The question was in reference to what was done on a particular occasion. I have given the information as to what was done on that occasion, and I have ascertained, from the information I have received, that nothing happened but what is the duty of the inspector.

The inspector said that these men would be supplanted. Does the Minister agree with that?

That is a matter of argument.

On a point of Order. I am not attempting to argue, but I do not think that the Minister should try to get out of a question as he has tried to get out of it.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that the total reduction in building expenditure following the demand for economy during the ensuing year amounts to £55,525,875 in respect of Government Departments and local authorities, a sum which represents 23 per cent. of the normal annual value of building and 12 weeks' unemployment for the total personnel of the building trade (858,170); and whether, seeing that the charge for unemployment insurance benefit will be nearly £9,000,000, he will take steps to encourage wise spending, as the charge for interest on the money involved is less than one-third of the money that will be required for unemployment benefit if all the schemes are suspended?

As stated by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health in reply to a question put by the hon. Member for the Hemsworth Division (Mr. Price) there is no reason to think that economies on building by the Government or municipal authorities amount to any sum approaching the figure of £55,500,000 mentioned in the question; I am afraid, therefore, that I cannot accept the calculations which the hon. Member bases upon it. As regards the line to be drawn between wise and unwise spending, my right hon. Friend issued a circular on this subject on 11th September last to local authorities with which, I have no doubt, the hon. Member is familiar.

Has the right hon. Gentleman taken any steps to check the accuracy of the figures, or will steps be taken?

The very first item in the sum of £55,000,000 is a large amount in respect of a scheme which was turned down by the last Parliament.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the volume of work which a number of municipal authorities have under consideration was not taken into account and, therefore, that there is the possibility of the figures in question being understated rather than overstated?

No, I do not think that at all, but what I am pointing out is that, from the evidence in my possession, I think the figure of £55,000,000 is a very large overstatement.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that in London, as a result of the circular to the local authorities, they have cut down their expenditure on housing by about three-quarters and are cancelling all their contracts and stopping buying any new estates, the result being a large reduction in the numbers employed on house building?

That is a question that should be addressed to the Minister of Health.

In view of the right hon. Gentleman's refusal to accept these figures, can he supply any figures that he would consider accurate?

Mr. Mander.

May I ask for an answer to my question?

We have already had a number of questions on these particular points.

asked the Minister of Labour the figures of increased unemployment in each division which go to making up the total of 218,000 increase of January over the figures of December?

As the reply includes a number of figures, I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Labour how many unemployed persons who have been removed from transitional payments by public assistance committees and are not now signing the unemployment register are to be added to the 218,490 increase for the last month in the numbers of those who are unemployed?

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons, were registered as unemployed at the Employment Exchanges on 1st February, 1931, and 1932; and how many persons have ceased to register during the past three months because benefits or transition payments have been disallowed?

The numbers of persons on the registers of Employment Exchanges in Great Britain were 2,592,650 at 26th January, 1931, and 2,728,411 at 25th January, 1932. It is estimated that in the last three months approximately 130,000 persons had ceased to register at Employment. Exchanges after disallowance of benefit or transitional payments, but it is clear that nothing approaching this number should properly be included in a total of the unemployed.

Has the right hon. Gentleman any idea how many of these 130,000 persons who have ceased to register ought to be added to the 218,000?

No, for this reason: the hon. Gentleman should realise, in the first place, that there are 150,000 more persons in employment than there were this time last year, and, in the second place, that it is not unreasonable to suppose that a very considerable pro- portion—how many I cannot say—of the 130,000 do not desire the assistance of the exchange in finding a job.

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the normal addition to employment of those who have left school?

Yes, I have considered that.

Is it not the case that 130,000 less are employed to-day than a month ago, and does that not indicate that the 218,000 extra unemployed does not constitute the whole figure?

No, I do not think that that is so at all. It is well known to the hon. Gentleman and has often been pointed out, that these are the figures of those registering for work and not of those receiving benefit, and that if a man is cut off benefit and does not register for work, it may be—I do not say that it is so in all cases—that he does not desire the assistance of the exchange in finding work.

If a further question is put down, will the right hon. Gentleman answer it?

indicated assent.

asked the Minister of Labour how many men and women are at present employed on schemes of work which have been approved by the Unemployment Grants Committee?

The number of men employed on schemes approved by the Unemployment Grants Committee was 47,321 on 18th December, 193], the last date for which figures are available.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the number of women

I can only give the total figure. I have not discriminated between men and women.

asked the Minister of Labour how many miners were unemployed in Great Britain on the 1st February, 1929, 1931, and 1932?

The numbers of insured persons in the coal mining industry classification recorded as unemployed in Great Britain were 213,214 at 21st January, 1929; 138,442 at 27th January, 1930; 208,755 at 26th January, 1931; and 289,499 at 25th January, 1932.

Does that not prove that the policy of the Government is further destroying the mining industry?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Labour if a decision has yet been arrived at in the case of Miss Menzies, Hopehill Road, Glasgow, signing at the Maryhill Exchange, and who has been refused benefit as a seasonal worker with 87 stamps in two years; and if he is taking any steps to regularise the treatment by courts of referees in the future of this class of case?

The claim for benefit made by Miss Menzies has been referred by the insurance officer to the umpire. Uniformity in the treatment of eases by the courts is secured by the procedure of appeal to the umpire, the more important of whose decisions are circulated to the courts for their guidance.

May I ask if anything can be done to stop courts of referees acting in this way? Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that a person with 87 stamps in two years ceases to be a seasonal worker; and is there any difference in the administration here?

The point on which the hon. Gentleman asks my opinion is, of course, a matter for the umpire, and when the umpire's decision is given I shall do my best, as the hon. Member knows, to secure that the widest publicity is given to the decision so that the courts of referees have correct instructions.

I am asking the right hon. Gentleman whether the court of referees is not deliberately acting in defiance of the Act seeing that a person who has two years' work ceases to be a seasonal worker?

I can only repeat that that is a matter for the umpire.

asked the Home Secretary what progess has been made to get anthracosis scheduled in the Workmen's Compensation Regulations in order to secure payments for men suffering from this disease in the mining industry?

It has not been established that work in the anthracite mines is a cause of special pulmonary disease. The question of the effect of coal dust on the lungs has been referred to the Pulmonary Diseases Committee of the Medical Research Council for investigation, and it has been found that there are serious technical difficulties in prosecuting the researches necessary for determining the question. I am informed that it is receiving the close attention of the Medical Research Council, but I am sorry I cannot say when the work is likely to be brought to completion.

asked the Home Secretary what number of men have claimed compensation who are suffering from silicosis in South Wales; the number who succeeded in their claim; and the number refused, if any, and upon what grounds

Separate figures for South Wales are not available, but the Returns for Great Britain show that in 1929 there were 12 eases, and in 1930 18 cases of coalminers who recovered compensation for disablement from silicosis. The Returns for 1031 are only now being collected. I regret that I am not in a position to give the total number of claims made or refused, or the reasons for refusal.

asked the President of the Board of Education what action it is proposed to take in connection with the final report of the Committee on Education for Salesmanship?

I attach great importance to the recommendations of this valuable and comprehensive report which are addressed not only to those responsible for the conduct of the schools of the country, but also to employers and parents. I am now actively considering how best I can cooperate with the other interests con- cerned in making these recommendations more widely known, and what steps can he taken at the present time to give effect to those recommendations which directly concern my Department. I venture respectfully to draw the special attention of hon. Members to this report which, in my opinion, has a most important bearing on the future of trade and industry in this country.

asked the President of the Board of Education how many new nursery schools have been opened and how many plans have been approved from the 1st July, 1929, to August, 1931; and how many have been opened and plans for others approved since that date?

Between the beginning of July, 1929, and the end of August, 1931, 18 nursery schools were recognised for the first time by the Board of Education. In 13 of these cases the plans had been approved during the same period. Since the end of August, 1931, five further schools have received recognition, plans in all these cases having been approved before that date and after July, 1929. Plans for 10 further schools were approved between the beginning of July, 1929, and the end of August, 1931, and for one further school since the latter date. Apart from one voluntary proposal which has been abandoned, most of these 11 schools are either already opened though not yet formally recognised, or are approaching completion.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise the great leeway to be made up in the organisation and construction of nursery schools, and will he consider that the need of economy should not be allowed to stand in the way of building more schools?

I am afraid economy does stand in the way at the present time.

Will the President bear in mind the cost of sickness to the country, and the fact that nursery schools really are not merely now, but in the immediate future, a real saving to the health of the people?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether his circular to school children on the subject of the Disarmament Conference was approved by the Cabinet before publication; what has been the, cost of issuing it; and whether it is his intention to make further pronouncements of a similar character to school children?

It would be contrary to the usual practice for me to make any statement in regard to the matter mentioned in the first part of the question, but, as with any other matter of Departmental action, I satisfied myself that the issue of the message referred to would be consistent with the policy of the Government. In answer to the second part, the additional expenditure incurred as a result of issuing the message was approximately £10. In regard to the third part of the question, I am not at present considering the circulation of any other similar message to the schools.

Will the President of the Board of Education tell us precisely what is the difficulty in answering the first part of the question?

Simply that discussions which take place in the Cabinet are not matters that can be disclosed here.

Is it the policy of the Government to discourage children from attending naval and military displays?

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will bring up to date the statement regarding local education authorities and free places in secondary schools which he made on 26th January, 1931?

As the answer contains a number of figures I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware that the Middlesex County Council has decided to increase the secondary school fees from £1 11s. 6d. to £4 4s. per term for children attending the Edmonton secondary school; if he can state whether he has considered the protest made by the Edmonton education committee about the matter; and whether he intends taking any action?

The Middlesex County Council have submitted to the Board a proposal to increase to £4 4s. per term the fees in certain secondary schools, including the Latymer School, Edmonton. This proposal will receive careful consideration, but I cannot yet say what the Board's decision will be. I have not received any protest from the Edmonton education committee on the matter.