asked the Minister of Labour what answer he has given to the protests which have been sent to him by churches of all denominations in the West of Scotland against the distress which is being caused by the operation of the means test in all sections of the community; and what action he contemplates taking?

The only protests of this description which I have received are one from a meeting of church workers held at a Glasgow church and one from the Kirk Session of another Glasgow church forwarded to me within the past few days by the hon. Member. I have noted these protests.

The Minister simply says that he has noted these protests, but I want to know what action he is going to take?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have constantly stated in this House the justification for the means test, and I have constantly taken such action as I was able to take to ensure that it worked fairly.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the 3,700 men thrown idle as a result of the stopping of work on the new Cunarder have in most cases since been in receipt of unemployment benefit, but as the 26 weeks' period will expire by the middle of next month 2,500 of them will have to stand the means test to receive further benefit, and as a result many of them will be cut off from further payments, while many others will have their allowance reduced; and whether, in view of this and similar cases, the Government will do away with the means test?

I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave to a similar question by the hon. Member on 5th May.

Has not the right hon. Gentleman seen a speech that was delivered at the Assembly in Edinburgh on Wednesday, in which the Reverend John Munro distinctly stated that the means test in operation in Scotland was breaking the hearts of tens of thousands of decent men and women, and what action is the right hon. Gentleman going to take there?

I have not seen the report of that speech.

If I put before the right hon. Gentleman the speech, and the approval that it met with at the General Assembly, with Sir Iain Colquhoun in the chair, will he tell me what action he will take?

Again, I cannot add to what I have already said. With regard to the question on the Paper, of course these men will not have their benefit stopped or reduced unless they have exhausted their insurance rights and their means justify such action.

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this question of the means test on the very first available opportunity.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that, arising from an interview between a representative of his Department and the chairman of the Birmingham public assistance committee, amended regulations have been issued by that committee to the sectional relief sub-committees on the subject of special cases; and will he now consider the advisability of making it clear to all applicants that they have the right to ask to appear before the sub-committee if they are not satisfied with the determination arrived at?

The arrangements for interviewing applicants for transitional payments are within the discretion of the authority concerned. I understand that it is the practice of all sub-committees dealing with transitional payments in Birmingham to grant an interview whenever they are requested to do so by an applicant.

asked the Minister of Labour if he has considered the representations made to him by the Durham County Council as to the additional burden placed upon the ratepayers in consequence of large numbers of men being disallowed unemployment insurance benefit; and what action he proposes to take in view of the fact that Durham is already a necessitous area?

The question of the arrangements to be made outside the Unemployment Insurance Scheme for the unemployed who are capable of and available for work is one of the matters which has been referred to the Royal Commission on Unemployment Insurance, and I am unable to take any action until the Commission's report has been received.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the cost of relief of able-bodied unemployed in the county of Durham has increased by an amount approaching £1,000 per week since November of last year; and, since Durham is a very necessitous area, and this can only serve to aggravate the depression, will he not consider some earlier relaxation of the regulations?

No, Sir. Obviously, no alteration can be made without legislation; and, clearly, I can- not introduce legislation until I have the advantage of the guidance of the Royal Commission.

Does the right hon. Gentleman expect the report to be available to Members before the Recess?

Yes, Sir, I expect it.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that a number of men who were employed for a few days before, and re-employed after, the New Year holidays on ship repair work at Partick and Govan, have not yet received their unemployment benefit from the Govan Employment Exchange for the days between the two periods of employment; that the cases of two of the men were selected by the Exchange officials and put before the court of referees as test eases, the decision upon which was to govern the remainder; that the court of referees decided in favour of the two cases; that the insurance officer appealed to the umpire and refused to observe the arrangement of the test case but sent the remainder of the men individually before the court of referees, which decided against each of the men, only giving leave to appeal to the umpire to three; that the chairman of the court of referees informed the men's representative that the umpire's decision would apply to all the men whom he had disallowed and that the umpire has given his decision in favour of the men whose cases had been referred to him, but the insurance officer refuses to apply that decision to the remainder and is now sending them before another court of referees; whether he can state the reason for the breach of the original arrangement of the two test cases, the cost of, and the time taken by, the courts of referees and the umpire in hearing these cases; and whether, to avoid further waste of time and expense in this matter, he will have the benefit which should have been paid on 15th January, and which the umpire decided they are entitled to, paid without further delay?

I am having inquiry made, and will communicate the result to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

As this case has been going on since the beginning of January, will the right hon. Gentleman see to it that the inquiry he is making is expedited with due regard to that fact?

Yes, Sir; I have given directions to that effect.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether any legislation is to be introduced this Session in connection with the Report of the Royal Commission on Licensing Laws (England and Wales)?

As the hon. Member will no doubt have anticipated, the answer is in the negative.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that this Commission was set up because the Labour Government was frightened of the drink question; and is there any more chance of the present Government being bolder than the Labour Government?

In view of the state of legislation this Session, it is obviously impossible.

asked the Home Secretary whether the committee appointed to inquire into the existing methods of dealing with persistent offenders has submitted its report; and whether the report is to be published?

The committee has submitted its report, which has been presented to Parliament. Copies will be available for Members to-morrow afternoon.

asked the Home Secretary whether he proposes to introduce during the present Session a Bill for the consolidation and amendment of the laws relating to factories?

I regret there is no possibility of such legislation this Session.

asked the Home Secretary if his attention has been called to the case of six Liverpool youths who were sentenced at Conway Police Court, on 23rd May, to one month's imprisonment each for escaping from the Conway Poor Law institution instead of staying in the institution until permitted to leave; and, as they have never been in gaol before, will he inquire into the case with a view to remission of the sentences?

I have made inquiry into this case, which had not previously been brought to my notice, and I find no reason for recommending the remission of the sentences passed on any of the six youths, all of whom had committed several previous offences..

Am I to take it that, in cases in which there has been no previous commitment, youths are sent to prison for the simple offence of breaking out of a workhouse?

Some of these youths have been dealt with under the Probation of Offenders Act several times. One has been dealt with six times and fined six times, and others have been repeatedly dealt with under the Probation of Offenders Act; and the Court thought that in this case it was necessary to pass this sentence.

Is it not a fact that these boys have only been guilty of playing football in the streets, and have never been in prison before?

No, Sir; some of the offences were quite serious ones.

asked the Home Secretary what steps are taken by his Department at present for testing public omnibuses in respect of petrol emanations (fumes and exhaust); is he satisfied as to their effectiveness; and is he aware that a number of conductors and drivers of such vehicles are reporting sick, with headache and gastritis, owing to this cause?

Every omnibus is given a running test before being licensed, special care being taken to see that no excessive or obnoxious fumes are emitted; and if any vehicle, after being licensed, is seen to be offending in this respect, the licence is suspended and it is removed from service until the defect has been remedied. I have no reason to doubt the general effectiveness of these arrangements; and so far as I am aware only two cases have occurred during the present year in which it is claimed that sickness has resulted from the cause suggested.

asked the Home Secretary if he will recommend that the terms of reference should be enlarged of the Royal Commission inquiring into the laws regarding lotteries and cognate matters so as to give them power to advise the Government as to the desirability, or otherwise, of issuing national premium or other bonds of a like nature?

It is for the Royal Commission themselves to interpret their terms of reference, but I am advised that they are sufficiently wide to permit the Commission to consider the point to which the hon. Member refers, should they consider it desirable to do so.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that the issue of such bonds would greatly facilitate loan conversion operations?

If the hon. Member asks for my personal opinion, it is in the negative.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the remand home at West Ham has recently been closed, and that there is now no remand home in the county of Essex; and what steps are being taken to provide suitable remand home accommodation at convenient centres within the Essex County Council area?

The statement in the first part of the question is not correct so far as it relates to the needs of the eastern part of the county, since there are two remand homes (one for boys and one for girls) at Colchester. I am informed that, even though the county authorities and two other boroughs in Essex used the remand home in West Ham, the cost proved to be excessive owing to the small number of children to be accommodated. I understand that the authorities concerned are now using the remand home provided by the London County Council.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that children are now being sent there from far distant districts in East London, and have even been sent from Southend to Battersea; and, further, that quite young girls, because of lack of accommodation, are being sent to Wormwood Scrubs prison?

I was not aware of that last fact. With regard to the distance from which they have to be sent, I agree that it is inconvenient, but, on the other hand, the number of children received into this remand home was so small that the cost amounted to £4 per week per child.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make further inquiries into the statement I have made with regard to girls?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Home Secretary how many totalisators are in use on greyhound racing tracks, licensed and unlicensed; whether any steps have been taken to establish their legality or otherwise; and whether he is aware that in many cases free admission is allowed on purchase of a programme and that the proprietors are compensated by all bets being made through the totalisator?

I have no information which would enable me to answer the first and third parts of the question. As regards the second part, I am aware of only one case which has been decided by the High Court, but I understand that a recent decision in another case may become the subject of an appeal to that court.

If information is forwarded to the right hon. Gentleman on the last part of the question, will he examine it in the light of the Entertainments Duty?

I shall be very happy to receive any information.

asked the President of the Board of Education what action His Majesty's Government proposes to take on the recent report of the Departmental Committee on Private Schools?

I am not yet in a position to add anything to the answer which I gave on 12th May last to my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Captain North) when I said that the report was receiving my careful consideration, but there could be no question of proceeding during the current Session with the legislation which would be requred to give effect to its main recommendations.

Is it not the case that extensive legislation will not be necessary in view of the fact that the report is generally favourable to the private school system?

Some legislation will be necessary, and I am sorry to say the current Session affords no opportunity for that.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he can state the number of certificated and non-certificated teachers, respectively engaged partly or wholly in educating children under six in the public elementary schools?

The numbers of certificated and non-certificated teachers engaged wholly with children under six years old, on 3lst March, 1931, were 3,943 and 2,633 respectively. I regret that I cannot, without a disproportionate amount of labour, ascertain the figures for those engaged only partly with such children.

asked the President of the Board of Education what would be the approximate annual saving if only non-certificated teachers were em- ployed in the education of children up to the age of six years in public elementary schools?

If all the certificated teachers employed wholly in the education of children under the age of six were replaced by non-certificated teachers, the annual saving in salaries would be approximately £370,000; but unless the certificated teachers were dismissed, the net saving would, of course, be very much less, or might be entirely eliminated, if by rearrangement of staffs the displaced certificated teachers were employed to replace non-certificated teachers now engaged in teaching older children.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that in many eases it is just as important to have trained and certificated teachers for young children as for the elder, and some educational experts—not people who just want to economise on children first—think it is even more important?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that uncertificated teachers are now claiming the same scale of salary as certificated teachers?

They are not obtaining it. It is perfectly true that the teaching of young children requires a very considerable amount of skill.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ask some of the Members who are asking these questions if they would get untrained people to look after their children?

Would it not be much better if these young children were under the care of motherly widows?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he will state the number of secondary schools in England and Wales, respectively, in which Spanish is taught, and the number of pupils in each country receiving instruction in that language; and whether, having regard to the importance of Spanish as a commercial language, he will take steps to urge as many schools as possible to include it in their curriculum?

In the school year 1930–31 there were 118 grant-aided secondary schools in England, and nine in Wales, in which provision was made for the teaching of Spanish. I regret that I have no information as to the number of pupils who received instruction in that language. On the importance of Spanish as a commercial language, I do not think that I could usefully add anything to what is said in the second interim and final reports of the Committee on Education for Salesmanship.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether, in view of the increased use of milk in elementary schools in the last year, he will take steps to encourage the further consumption of milk in all schools, while at the same time insisting that wherever possible only certified or Grade A milk shall be used?

I am anxious to see a further extension of the arrangements for the supply of milk to children in public elementary schools, and I am co-operating with the National Milk Publicity Council to that end. In approving arrangements for the provision of milk by local education authorities, the Board call the attention of the authorities to the importance of their satisfying themselves as to the purity and quality of the milk, and they recommend the use of pasteurised or tuberculin tested milk.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it would be a better national policy to spend money on milk for children rather than pay a sugar-beet subsidy?

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will furnish a statement showing for 1930–31 the occupations of fathers of pupils in grant-aided secondary schools, comparable with Table 63 contained in the Statistics of Public Education for 1925–26?

I regret that the information given in the table to which the hon. Member refers is not available for the year 1930–31, and I suggest to my hon. Friend that it would not be suffi- ciently valuable to justify the time, labour and expense which would be involved in its preparation.

asked the Minister of Health whether, before coming to a decision with regard to making an order under Section 46 of the Local Government Act, 1929, for the compulsory absorption of the parish of Woldingham into the Caterham Urban District, he will take into consideration the fact that the distance from Woldingham village to the council hall, Caterham, is about four miles, and that the bad transport service in this area will prevent the representatives from Woldingham attending to their public duties in a satisfactory way?

I have already made and communicated a decision in this matter after full consideration of all the facts of the case. I am advised that communication between the parish and the urban district is better than it is with the headquarters of the rural district council.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has any information as to the number of local authorities which have responded to the appeal contained in Circular 1222 by reducing the charges imposed on ratepayers by way of local rates?

Copies of the rate demand notes for the current half-year have been received from 1,282 rating authorities in England and Wales out of a total of 1,755. I am glad to say that in 1,005 rating areas there has been a decrease in the rate poundage as compared with the corresponding half-year in 1931; in 162 areas the rate is unchanged and in only 115 areas is there an increase.

asked the Minister of Health what steps the Government are proposing to take to prevent the amenities of residential districts being inter- fered with, contrary to the wishes of the inhabitants, by the erection of garages, petrol stations, etc.?

My hon. Friend will be aware of the control which a town planning authority can exercise under the Town Planning Act, 1925, over the buildings mentioned, in an area to which that Act applies. The Town and Country Planning Bill, in so far as it extends the power of local authorities to plan developed areas, will extend their powers of control over building operations, including the kind of buildings to which my hon. Friend refers.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that considerable interest is taken in this problem in the country in general and in Wolverhampton in particular?

I am well aware that there is very great feeling on the subject in many parts of the country.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that in these residential districts the inhabitants have motor cars, and these garages, if properly designed, are a convenience to them?

I entirely agree that, when properly designed, there is no abuse and no disadvantage, but I understand the question refers to those that are improperly designed.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the number and names of urban district councils in Essex which impose on their tenants a condition that they must either discontinue the use of gas in favour of electricity or ran the risk of being ejected from their homes; and whether his Department discourage this practice, in view of the fact that these houses are constructed in part with public money?

I regret that the information sought in the first part of the question is not available as local authorities are not required to inform me of their methods of management of their estates. I have no reason to suppose that such a practice is common, and, if con- sulted on the matter, should certainly deprecate arbitrary action of the kind described.

asked the Minister of Health if he will institute an inquiry into the financial position of council house tenants under local authorities and give the number of such tenants who are paying economic rents; the number who are not paying economic rents; the average income of the tenants in each category mentioned; and the number of applicants for such houses who have not obtained accommodation hitherto because of their inability to pay the rents demanded?

asked the Minister of Health whether he will obtain from all appropriate housing authorities a return showing the number of persons occupying premises built under the Exchequer and local rates housing grants who own mechanically-propelled vehicles, in order to test the extent to which the housing subsidy is being enjoyed by persons able to pay economic rentals?

The management of houses erected by local authorities is vested in the local authorities themselves, and I should not be justified in incurring, and putting the local authorities to, the expense of such a general inquiry in a matter that is primarily of their own concern. It is, of course, the fact that no tenants of houses provided with State assistance are paying economic rents.

Are many of these houses occupied by members of local authorities themselves and head officials?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many houses intended to be occupied by low-paid wage earners are occupied by persons earning £9 or £10 a week and even more?

It is, of course, a matter of good policy that these houses should be reserved for the class for which they were intended, but, as I have said, this is a matter the administration of which is within the discretion of local authorities.

Was the subsidy from public funds intended by this House to be enjoyed by people well able to buy or hire houses or get them through building societies?

That is just what I meant by saying that it was a matter of good policy that houses should be made available for the class for whom they were intended.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some of these houses are occupied by people in possession of motor cars?

asked the Minister of Health the number of applications, either for grant or loan, under the Housing (Rural Workers) Act, which were approved in the year 1931, and the number of houses completed under the same Act in 1931?

The numbers in England and Wales were 1,324 and 1,471 respectively.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with this rate of progress in rural housing?

I am by no means satisfied with the use which has been made of the powers under the Act, and I think that it is very desirable that more attention should be called to the powers under the Act, with a view to better use being made of it.

Is it not a fact that a great deal more use has been made of the Act in Scotland than in England?

I am not quite sure, but I think that that is very likely so.

Does the Minister take into account whether the local authority are using the Act when they apply for a loan or for assistance for new houses?

Most undoubtedly. It is a matter which will be taken into account.

Is it not the case that as far as Scotland is concerned there never were so many house builders unemployed as there are to-day?

asked the Minister of Health if he has now received the inspector's report of the flooded area in Barnsley; and what remedial measures are contemplated to prevent further distress in this area?

I have received a report from the inspectors of the Ministry of Health who have been upon the spot for the assistance of the local authorities. It appears that 163 council houses and a few other houses were affected by the floods. As regards preventative measures for the future, the town council have instructed their engineer to prepare a local scheme of flood prevention. The question of more comprehensive measures is being considered by the catchment board. As regards remedial measures for the present, the occupants concerned both here and elsewhere have suffered it is to be feared inconvenience and damage. The houses were inundated for 11 hours; but the houses have by now been largely cleansed and reoccupied again. The local authority are taking all other necessary measures for the relief of distress.

asked the Minister of Health what steps the sanitary and health authorities are taking in the Don-caster area to avoid the danger of swamp fever spreading when the floods subside; and whether his Department will undertake to bear any portion of the financial responsibility involved in these measures?

I understand from the reports of my Inspectors who, since the floods began, have been and still are upon the spot for the assistance (inter alia) of the local authorities, that the local medical officers of health have been actively engaged in inquiries into the possibility of danger to health, with special reference to the question of pollution of the water supplies and such dangers as those referred to in. the question. The resources of my Department are immediately available for their assistance, advice and support as may be required; but there are no funds at my disposal for the purpose suggested in the last part of the question.

Are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that those sorely distressed districts, which have suffered twice from this epidemic within seven months, cannot be assisted in any way by the right hon. Gentleman's Department?

For the purposes of relief, they have, of course, behind them the whole of the rates of the county area concerned, but my Department has no funds available for the purpose.

Do we understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply that any sums involved in caring for the health of the local population can be spread over the whole county; and will they in any way get a grant from the Government towards it?

As regards the spreading, the hon. Gentleman knows that he has asked a very technical question. Subject to confirmation, they have behind them the whole of the rates of the area, but there is no central fund which is available for the purpose.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state how much of the grant provided by Parliament annually towards the expenditure of the Medical Research Council is allocated for cancer research; how many cancer research workers there are receiving financial assistance; on what basis are the individual research workers selected; and what is the amount of grant received by each, respectively?

No special allocation of any part of the inclusive grant in aid received by the Medical Research. Council from the Exchequer is made to cancer research as such. I am advised that in our present state of knowledge it is in fact neither possible nor desirable to decide the present or future relevance of particular new lines of inquiry to the special problems of cancer. To work expressly directed to cancer, the council assign at present about £6,000 a year, exclusive of expenditure upon radiology and radio-therapy. The work supported by the council is described in the annual reports which are presented to Parliament, but it is not the practice of the council to give details of the amount of the grants paid to individual research workers.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why it is that some research workers of great distinction in this country receive no encouragement whatever from this council; and, further, would the right hon. Gentleman promise if I were to give him the name of a research worker who has spent almost his entire fortune on this particular subject, to look into the reason why he is not called upon to give his scientific knowledge to this country?

The manner in which the grant is allocated by the Medical Research Council is in no way under my control, but, on the other hand, it might serve a useful purpose if the hon. Gentleman placed his information on this subject at my disposal.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider the advisability of introducing legislation to prevent local authorities from paying substantial retaining fees to retired officials in addition to pensions and allowances?

Where the accounts of a local authority are subject to audit by the district auditor it is open to him to disallow any payments which are illegal or unreasonable. I do not think it necessary, or desirable, to fetter the general discretion of local authorities as is suggested in the question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Socialist majority of the Durham County Council has decided to pay to the county accountant, who recently retired, a retaining fee of £600 per annum, which, together with pension and allowances, makes a total annual payment to this retired official of £2,192, or nearly £19 per week more than—

The hon. Member is giving information.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in view of the increased burden of the service of the National Debt upon industry and the increased purchasing power of the pound sterling, he will consider taking immediate steps to place the whole internal Debt interest on a 3 per cent. basis and devote the saving made thereby to the relief of the direct and indirect taxpayer?

No, Sir. This step is not in contemplation. I would point out that in the case of Treasury Bills for instance we are at present borrowing at a very much cheaper rate.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman prepared to assure the House that an early opportunity will be taken to bring about a comprehensive conversion of the internal debt without further procrastination?

I am afraid I cannot add anything to the statements which have been made on the subject from time to time in the House.

May I ask whether a question of this kind, even if put with the best will in the world, does not do a great deal of injury by implying repudiation and thus hurting the national credit?

Is it not a fact that we have lost in the past two years more than one chance of carrying through a conversion; and need we take it from my right hon. and gallant Friend's answer that the Government have abandoned all hope of carrying through a conversion scheme fairly soon?

Not at all, Sir. If my hon. Friend will look at the question, he will see that it does not refer to conversion operations.

Does not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman consider that this Debt is a millstone round the neck of industry?

All debts are.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if he can give figures demonstrating in terms of pre-War prices the relative increase of the burden of the National Debt interest in the year 1920–21 and at the latest convenient date?

I should hesitate to attempt to demonstrate any conclusion of this nature in terms of the price level, particularly at a time like the present when different index numbers of prices give widely divergent results. It must also be borne in mind that prices were at their peak in 1920–21 and that the Debt was raised considerably earlier.

Why does the right hon. Gentleman accept the 1920 date in view of the fact that very little of the National Debt was incurred after 1918, and that the purchasing value of the pound to-day is not very much more than the average value of the pound over the whole period during which the National Debt was borrowed prior to 1918?

I have answered the question as it is on the Order Paper.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he can now state whether it is intended to effect the conversion of the 5 per cent. War Loan in instalments or in one single operation; and, if the former, whether he will consider the desirability of commencing operations forthwith?

I can only refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Joel) on the 23rd May, namely, that I am unable to make a statement on the matter.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if it is his intention to maintain the dollar exchange of sterling stable at about its present rate for the time being?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the Second Reading of the Finance Bill.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether any estimate can be formed of the cost of old age and widows' pensions in 10, 20, 30, and 40 years' time, respectively, on the basis of present arrangements?

I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the information given in paragraphs 417 to 445 of the report of the Committee on National Expenditure, where it is stated that the cost to the Exchequer for old age pensions of all kinds and for widows' and orphans' pensions will be £68,000,000 in 1940–41, and that it will rise to over £80,000,000 a year in 30 years' time. For reasons which are explained by the committee in their report, circumstances are at present such that it is undesirable to attempt to make precise estimates covering a long period of time, and I am not therefore in a position to give figures at 10-year intervals as desired by my hon. and gallant Friend.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury how the cost of Government short-term borrowing for the past two months compares with a similar period in 1931 and 1930, respectively?

The average annual rates of discount at which three months Treasury Bills were sold by weekly tender during April and May in the years 1930, 1931 and 1932 were £2 6s. 0.85d., £2 8s. 2.03d., and £l 14s. 7.77d., respectively.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury approximately what our American War Debt would amount to if the commodities forming it had been supplied by America to Great Britain at the prices now ruling in 1932 as compared with those ruling at the time when the United States supplied the commodities which formed the substance of the American war loan to Great Britain?

The outstanding British War Debt to the United States is $4,398,000,000 or £904,000,000 at par of exchange. It would be too complicated to base a calculation on the change in price of the actual commodities bought, but the United States Bureau of Labour Index number of wholesale prices has fallen by about one-half—from an average of 189 during the period between April, 1917, and November, 1918, to 94.6 in March, 1932.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is his intention to suggest that the arrangement of a new Imperial currency should be an objective of the Ottawa Conference, and should be accordingly placed on the agenda of the Conference?

The question of currency policy will no doubt arise for discussion, but I cannot say whether particular suggestions such as that indicated in the question will be advocated at the Conference.

Can my right hon. and gallant Friend give the House an undertaking that this question will be considered at the Ottawa Conference—will be on the Agenda?

Imperial currency is something which is very different from an Imperial monetary policy and may raise very difficult questions.

Is there any truth in the rumour that is going round the House that our Government has a representative who is going to suggest the idea of repudiating the National Debt?

I did not know that the hon. Member for Dumbarton Burghs (Mr. Kirkwood) had been invited to go to Ottawa.

I think you will agree Mr. Speaker, that that reply had nothing whatever to do with the question.

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs with which of the Dominions trade negotiations preliminary to the Ottawa Conference have been and are taking place; and in which cases, if any, there have been no such negotiations?

Preliminary discussions have been taking place with Canada, the Commonwealth of Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Newfoundland and Southern Rhodesia; and also with India. No discussions have taken place with the Irish Free State.

May I ask why the Irish Free State is being excluded from these negotiations?

Because as I have explained to the House, at the present moment the Irish Free State Government have repudiated an agreement entered into between representatives of Ireland and ourselves. We feel that no good purpose will be served by entering into further negotiations with people until they show that they are ready to observe agreements. [Interruption.]

After the applause has subsided may I ask whether that means that the Irish Free State is to be excluded from the Ottawa Conference?

That has nothing to do with us whatever. The Irish Free State will, as is well known, attend the Ottawa Conference at the invitation of the Canadian Government. We are not concerned with any legal or constitutional aspect of this question. We are concerned with the simple moral obligation of both parties to an agreement to abide by that agreement. That is our position.

Am I to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that the Irish Free State may be present at the Conference at Ottawa and take part in the proceedings of the Conference without having taken any part in the previous negotiations?

I have not the remotest idea what will happen at Ottawa—[Interruption]—as far as the Irish Free State is concerned. I am concerned only with intimating clearly and courteously what has been made plain to the world, that the British Government cannot assume for one moment that a Treaty would receive more sanctity at Ottawa than if made at London.

I think we should clear up this point as to who is issuing the invitations and who will determine whether the Irish Free State, if it accepts, will be allowed to sit at Ottawa. Is it not the fact that the Canadian Government are issuing the invitations and also the fact that the Conference will be the master of its own proceedings, including the British Government?

Certainly, that is exactly the situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether British films, together with their propaganda value, will be considered at the Imperial Conference at Ottawa; and, if so, from what different aspects?

I am not yet in a position to say what subjects will appear on the agenda of the conference. I hope, however, that an opportunity will arise in the course of the conference for discussing, at least informally, the subject of British films.

May I ask whether the question of the constitutional position of New South Wales will be discussed at the Ottawa Conference?

The question on the paper is about films.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the total number of civil servants at the latest available date?

The latest figures relate to 1st April, 1932. On that date the total number of non-industrial civil staffs was 316,229.

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government has reached any conclusion upon the report of the Royal Commission on the Civil Services?

No decisions have yet been reached upon the report of the Royal Commission on the Civil Service. Certain recommendations have already been the subject of discussion with the various staff interests concerned. Machinery has also been set up for similar discussions on other recommendations, and I hope that it will shortly prove possible to make further progress in the matter.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what are the regulations governing sick leave in the Excise Department; and whether they differ from those governing sick leave in the Civil Service generally?

Sick leave in the Customs and Excise Department is governed by the regulations dated the 6th June, 1929, made by the Treasury under Article 6 of the Order-in-Council dated the 22nd July, 1920. These regulations apply to the Civil Service generally.

Is there any truth in the statement that civil servants in the Excise Department are expected to take a week's sick leave each year whether they are sick or not?

I should not think so, but I certainly would not like to dogmatise about regulations without going further into any particular point which the hon. Member might wish to put.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to say whether there is or there is not any truth in that statement, which was made in the House the other day, which he accepted at that time but said that he would like to see it as a question on the Order Paper?

I still say that I should like to see it on the Order Paper. It is not on the Order Paper to-day.

I attempted to put it on the Order Paper, but was unable to do so because of the regulations. Therefore, I have had to put it in this form. I want the right hon. Gentleman to give a denial to a statement like that, which is very serious for the Civil Service.

I can only answer the question on the Order Paper. If the hon. Member wishes to consult me further on the point, I shall be very glad for him to do so.

On a point of Order. This question is rather important for the Civil Service. A statement was publicly made in the House that civil servants were obliged to take a week's sick leave each year whether they were sick or not. I thought it was ludicrous at the time, and my hon. Friend tried to get a question past the Table in order to put it specifically, but it was ruled out. Surely, the right hon. Gentleman must see the importance of letting the public know that that statement is either true or untrue. Many people believe that it is true, because it was stated in the House of Commons.

Is it not within the knowledge of anyone who has served in the Treasury that that statement is untrue?

Yes, Sir, but when a question is put to me by an hon. Member there may be certain points in connection with it that I should like to go into. As the official representative of the Treasury for the time being I am most anxious not to say anything which could be in any possible way misconstrued. It was only for that reason that I desired some further notice of the question. It does not immediately arise out of the question on the Order Paper.

May I ask if the Financial Secretary will take an opportunity, as there is some regulation which prevents the question being put direct— [Interruption.] It is rather important. We tried to get a question past the Chair; but we were told that it could not be put in a form that would get us a clear answer. I only want to ask the right hon. Gentleman to take an opportunity of making public what are the facts. I am sure that the statement is not true.

May I have an opportunity of seeing another question?

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether any action has yet been taken in consequence of the paragraphs in the Report of the Committee on National Expenditure with regard to the amount of leave given to certain classes of civil servants?

The paragraphs in question will come up for consideration in connection with the findings on the same subject in paragraphs 604 to 611 (pages 174 to 176) of the Report of the Royal Commission on the Civil Service 1929–31 (Command Paper 3909) to which I would also refer my hon. Friend. The various recommendations contained in the Report of the Royal Commission are at present under consideration.

R asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if he can issue a statement showing the present normal daily working hours of administrative, executive and clerical classes of the Civil Service, respectively, and the extent to which these vary in the different departments?

I am sending my hon. Friend copies of the published regulations containing information as to the hours required of the specific classes of civil servants to whom he refers. In general the relevant Order in Council requires an attendance of not less than seven hours a day. This is a minimum provision; the hours of attendance actually prescribed for most civil servants are in excess of seven, and many of those who are formally conditioned to seven hours habitually work a longer day without extra payment. It is estimated that not more than 10 per cent. of the whole Civil Service consists of persons who are conditioned to a seven-hour day.

Is it not a fact that in some Government Departments the hours of work are from 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock? Will the right hon. Gentleman review those hours of work and bring them more into accord with the hours worked in commercial establishments in order to reduce the staff wherever possible?

In the first place, if the hon. Gentleman will give me details of any case he has in mind, I shall be glad to look into it, but I would remind him that the matter was very carefully gone into by the Royal Commission, and no recommendation on this point was brought forward by them. If one thing is to be reviewed, it may be necessary to review the scale of salaries also.

How many hours do they work on Saturday? The scale does not include seven hours on Saturday.

Is it not true that they are always trying to compare brain work with manual work? Civil servants do brain work.

Is it not a fact that attention was drawn in the Report of the Royal Commission on the Civil Service to the fact that there were certain grades of the Civil Service who were not working as long hours as prevailed in a good many private concerns?

As the Noble Lady knows, many of the grades of Civil Service are under consideration by the Government and are about to be reviewed with the representatives of the staff side.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has considered the Motion on the Paper for the appointment of a Select Committee to review the statutory duties of local authorities; and whether the Government is prepared to take any action in the matter—

"That it is expedient that a Select Committee be appointed to examine the statutory duties of local authorities in England, Wales and Scotland in connection with education, health, housing, public assistance, and agriculture, and the statutory restrictions imposed upon their freedom of action in administering these services, and to report to this House how these duties and restrictions may be modified in the interests of public economy."

I should be obliged if my right hon. Friend would postpone his question until I have had an opportunity of consulting the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware of the distress among West Country fishermen owing to the scarcity of fish between Portland and the Isle of Scilly; and whether he will be prepared to hold an inquiry with a view to closing certain bays during the breeding season?

My right hon. Friend is not aware of any abnormal shortage of fish in the region referred to where fluctuations in the supply would appear to be dependent more upon general than upon local conditions. He is not, therefore, prepared to adopt the suggestion made in the last part of the question.

Is it not a fact that certain of these bays have already been closed to trawling and that these Regulations are frequently broken?

The hon. Member should put that question down.

Would not the best way be to keep away foreign trawlers a little more strictly?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that the cod-end of the trawl in the majority of foreign trawlers is so small that it is impossible for minute marine life to come through the net alive; and whether he will be prepared to make representations to the countries concerned with a view to the protection of our fishing grounds?

My right hon. Friend is aware that many of the trawl nets in. use both at home and abroad take undersized fish. The matter is under investigation by the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, on which body all the countries concerned are represented; and pending the result of the council's deliberations representations such as my hon. Friend suggests would be premature.

Will the hon. and gallant Member see that British trawlers are not handicapped, as they are almost invariably, by foreign trawlers?

I will convey the hon. Member's observations to my right hon. Friend.

Does not the hon. and gallant Member think that by the time this international conference reports there will be no fish left in the sea?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has considered the scheme submitted by the council of the National Farmers' Union for the better organisation of the marketing of fat stock and dead meat in England and Wales; and whether he proposes to take any action thereon?

As stated in the reply he gave on 10th May to a question by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Howdenshire (Major Carver), my right hon. Friend has the report referred to under consideration. He is not yet, however, in a position to make a statement on the subject.

Can the hon. and gallant Member say when the Government will be in a position to make an announcement of their policy with regard to the livestock industry. Are the Members of the Cabinet aware of the seriousness of the position at the moment?

I will convey the hon. and gallant Member's remarks to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will consider the desirability of having a representative of the National Association of Master Bakers on the Wheat Commission which is being appointed by the Government and of which Lord Peel is chairman?

The Wheat Commission has now been constituted and my right hon. Friend regrets that it was not found possible to increase the representation of bakers of bread by appointing a representative of the association referred to.

May I ask whether the hon. and gallant Member considers that the master bakers are sufficiently represented on the Commission that has been appointed?

I will put that point to the Minister of Agriculture.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is prepared to offer any financial assistance towards the initiation of egg and poultry packing stations in areas where there are no such facilities at present?

My right hon. Friend regrets that he has no funds available from which grants could be made for the purpose indicated.

Is it not the case that, if the Government did not give so much to the wheat subsidy, there would be some money left?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware of the damage being done to river and canal banks by musk rats in Shropshire; and whether he will take steps to employ permanent trained trappers to deal with this pest?

My right hon. Friend is aware that there are a considerable number of musk rats at large in Shropshire, and is taking the necessary steps, in collaboration with the county agricultural committee of the county council, to bring about their destruction, in which connection the employment of trappers is receiving consideration.