asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total cost of the Silks trial at Edinburgh and the costs of the appeal?

It is estimated that the total costs of the trial and appeal will be about £22,500.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the profit made or loss incurred upon each of the hotels and inns in the State management districts of Gretna and the Cromarty Firth in each of the years 1929, 1930, and 1931?

The financial position of these schemes, including a statement of the total profit for each district, is set out in the annual reports presented to Parliament, but to give separate figures in respect of each of the individual properties would be a new departure which might be injurious to the interests of the Exchequer. I regret, therefore, that I cannot comply with the Noble Lord's request, but I am sending him a copy of the last three reports.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that both the majority and minority reports of the Royal Commission on Licensing (Scotland), 1931, recommend that the Government cease to control the State management districts of the Cromarty Firth and Gretna; and if it is proposed to follow this recommendation?

I am aware of the recommendations referred to, but in view of the reply given by my predecessor in office to the right hon. Member for Ross and Cromarty (Mr. Macpherson) on the 28th July, 1931, fuller investigation would be necessary before any legislation on this point could be considered. It is not proposed to introduce any such legislation in present circumstances.

Does not my right hon. Friend think that a sufficiently full investigation has been made by the Royal Commission, of which both the majority and minority were in agreement on this head?

Is it not a fact that no evidence at all was asked for from the district of Ross and Cromarty with regard to this question?

That is accurate. With regard to the first supplementary question, before any further legislation is considered on this point, more information and investigation are necessary.

Will that be made?

Not by me.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total amount paid from national and local revenue to the Roman Catholic Church following the transference of voluntary schools in Scotland to the education authorities; the amount which it, has cost the nation to advance the salaries of teachers in Roman Catholic schools to bring them up to the national scale and the amount which it has cost the nation to provide new schools for the Roman Catholic communion?

I regret that the statistics in my possession do not enable me to give a precise reply to my hon. Friend's question. The total expenditure by Scottish education authorities to the end of the financial year 1930–31 on the purchase of voluntary schools of all types transferred in pursuance of the Education (Scotland) Act, 1918, was approximately £771,000. Nearly all this sum was in respect of Roman Catholic schools, but without a special inquiry I am unable to state the precise amount or how much has been paid by way of rent for schools not purchased outright. The information asked for in the second part of the question could only be obtained by means of a special return from education authorities, and in present circumstances I do not feel I would be justified in asking them to provide this material. The cost of providing new Roman Catholic school buildings and additional accommodation at existing Roman Catholic schools is estimated at £1,335,000. I may add that the corresponding figure for schools other than Roman Catholic is £6,354,000.

May I ask whether, in point of fact, the standard of education given in Catholic schools is not on as high a level as in State-aided schools?

It is on the same basis, the same level.

asked the Secretary for Mines whether his Department has yet received a report by the experts of the Cunard Company respecting the colloidal fuel, which was tested in the Cunarder "Scythia" on a trip to America and back; whether the fuel is reported on as satisfactory; and what steps does the Government intend to take in the matter?

Yes, Sir, the Cunard Company have supplied my Department confidentially with particulars of their experiment. By agreement with them certain points are being investigated by the Government's experts but the report on these investigations is not yet complete.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps are being taken by His Majesty's Government to deal with the handicap placed upon the British coal trade by the imposition of quotas and other restrictions on the importation of coal into Germany, France, Belgium and Spain; and what measures are being taken to negotiate with the Governments of these countries to arrange reciprocal agreements?

With regard to Germany and France, I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given to a question by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for the Isle of Wight (Captain P. Macdonald), on 25th October. Further representations have been made to the Belgian Government in regard to the basis of calculation of the quota, but no reply has yet been received. With regard to Spain, as the hon. Member for Chester-le-Street (Mr. Lawson) was informed on the 10th May, the restrictions on coal entering that country are not considered to be discriminatory against the United Kingdom.

Has the hon. and gallant Gentleman received urgent representations from the Newcastle and Gateshead Chamber of Commerce with regard to the serious position of the coal trade in that area?

Yes, Sir, I understand that representations have been received at die Board of Trade, and very close attention will be paid to them.

What reply has been given to these representations, and will anything that is done be done quickly in order to better the very serious position?

Are not these quotas just the natural result of the tariff policy?

No, Sir, the quota system started before United Kingdom tariffs. With regard to the other supplementary question, if my hon. Friend examines the reply to which I have referred, he will see that steps are being taken actively in this matter.

Have not the German Government agreed to arbitrate on the quota if we will agree to arbitrate on tariffs on German goods?

The German Government have asked for a discussion on this matter, and we have agreed. It will be commenced almost immediately.

Is not Spain making further restrictions against British coal?

I am aware that it has been reported that further restrictions in Spain were contemplated, but we have received assurances on this point from the Spanish Government.

Have the German Government asked for arbitration?

What is proposed now is discussion on this and certain other matters.

But have they asked for arbitration?

asked the Secretary for Mines whether his attention has been called to the closing down of the Upper Hartsay Colliery, Ripley; the number of men thrown out of work; and whether the pit is to be permanently closed?

I am informed that, including officials, about 500 persons employed at this pit received notices terminating their employment on 25th October. I understand that, while one seam is being permanently closed, it is hoped by developing another seam to give further employment to some of the men affected, and that the remainder will be given preference as vacancies arise at other pits in the district belonging to the same company.

In these circumstances, is my hon. Friend satisfied that Part I of the Coal Mines Act has justified itself?

The answer is that the productive capacity of the industry is still greatly in excess of the present demand; and, as Parliament has decided that in the case of this industry output should be regulated, it is inevitable, with a limited market, that advantages for many pits must involve disadvantages for some.

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether any discussion took place at Ottawa as to the free importation into the Dominions of goods manufactured by disabled ex-service men; and, if not, whether, in view of the plight of the industries employing such men, he is prepared to enter into negotiations to this end?

No discussion on the lines indicated by the hon. and gallant Member took place at Ottawa, and I feat that it would not be feasible to take the action suggested in the second part of his question.

Will the right hon. Gentleman examine the question a little more in detail in view of the fact that an exhibition of disabled men's goods is now being held?

I appreciate my hon. and gallant Friend's interest, but I have examined it, and I do not think that it would be practical politics.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if arrangements can be made, whether by re-allocation of writing assistant personnel among the Scottish Departments or otherwise, so that the ex-service temporary clerks now under notice of dismissal from the Department of Health can be retained?

The discharge of these temporary clerks is due to reduction in the work of the Department following a recent review in the interests of economy. I am afraid that it would not be practicable to adopt the suggestion made by my hon. Friend. I am sending him a copy of the recent report of a committee of official and staff representatives which covers the question of retention and dismissal of temporary clerks.

While realising the need for administrative economy, may I ask my hon. Friend if he will take steps to see that these men get some preference for reinstatement if and when vacancies occur?

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he can make any statement as to the progress of the negotiations with the representatives of Norway, Sweden and Denmark regarding trade between those countries and Great Britain?

The invitations extended by His Majesty's Government to the Governments of Denmark, Norway and Sweden to discuss tariff matters have been accepted, but no precise date has been fixed for the opening of any of the negotiations.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if any negotiations have taken place with the Governments of Holland, Belgium and Luxemburg with regard to the tariff convention which they concluded in July last; and, if so, with what result?

Communications have passed between His Majesty's Government and the Governments mentioned on this subject. His Majesty's Government have indicated that, while appreciating the effort to bring about tariff reductions, they were unable to accept the invitation to become a party to the Convention since their treaty obligations prevented them from assuming an obligation to apply discriminatory tariff treatment to the goods of countries which remained outside the Convention and did not observe its terms, and that, having regard to the provisions of the Treaties between the United Kingdom and the two countries, they could not contemplate a situation in which Dutch goods in Belgium or Belgian goods in the Netherlands were accorded privileges denied to United Kingdom goods.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the quantities of four-ounce and under light dress-goods exported from the United Kingdom to Canada during the last three months and the corresponding figures for 1930 and 1931?

I regret that the desired information is not available.

Is it not the fact that the production of four-ounce cloth is an almost negligible proportion of the total production of the wool textile industry?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these figures cannot be found in the Trade and Navigation Returns or in the Canadian Trade Returns?

asked the President of the Board of Trade what class of cloth not previously manufactured in the West Riding of Yorkshire has, since August last, been ordered by Canadian importers; and whether he will state the quantities?

I assume that the hon. Member has in mind the statement that my right hon. Friend made during the Debate on the Ottawa Agreements Bill on the 27th October in which he referred to a statement made by a particular firm that they had received orders for a class of goods not previously made in Yorkshire for the Canadian market. As the information was received in confidence he is unable to furnish further details of the transaction mentioned on that occasion.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the, same cloth has been made in Yorkshire for the last half century?

The novelty was that it was made for the Canadian market.

is the hon. Gentleman aware that that order was simply a transference from one firm to another, and that the material had been sent to Canada for the last 20 years?

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the Chinese Government have adhered to their decision that as from 1st September all goods shipped from this country to China shall be accompanied by invoices signed by the Chinese Consul at the port of shipment; what procedure is to be followed; at what ports in this country Chinese Consuls are stationed; and what effect this requirement is likely to have upon British trade?

The reply to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, but certain concessions have been made in the matter. Details of these and of the procedure to be followed are given in the Board of Trade Journal for 25th August and 6th October. At present there is only one Chinese Consular station in this country, namely the Consulate-General in London, but understand that another is to be opened shortly in Liverpool and that the London Consulate-General propose to open a branch office in Manchester for the certification of Consular invoices. This requirement must, of course, involve some additional formality and expense to United Kingdom exporters but it should be pointed out that the regulations apply to all countries.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the special dumping duty imposed by Canada on imports from countries whose currencies have depreciated as compared with the currency of Canada is being applied to imports from this country; and, if so, what is its present rate in respect of them?

Yes, Sir, the special duty is still being applied to imports into Canada of goods from this country of a class or kind made or produced in Canada. For Customs entries during the period 1st to 15th November, the duty on United Kingdom goods amounts to 68 cents for every pound value of the invoice; that is, the difference between the fixed rate of 4.40 dollars and the average value of the pound, namely, 3.72 dollars, which has been proclaimed for Customs entries for the period in question. The average value of the pound for this purpose is declared fortnightly.

In that case will this penalisation of British goods increase during the next quarter owing to the fall in the pound?

The particulars given relate to the fortnightly period, but I should point out that under Article 17 of the Canadian Agreement His Majesty's Government in Canada have undertaken to give consideration to the reduction and ultimate removal of the existing exchange dumping duties as soon as circumstances permit, and we attach importance to that undertaking.

But who gives consideration to it, the Tariff Board which they are setting up, or the Government themselves?

The Canadian Government themselves.

asked the Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department the present duty per proof gallon on whiskey entering Australia from Great Britain, and by how much this duty will be reduced as the result of the Ottawa Agreements?

The British preferential rate of duty on whiskey entering Australia is 45s. per gallon, or per proof gallon if over proof, plus a primage tax of 10 per cent. ad valorem. No immediate reduction in the amount of the duty is provided for in the United Kingdom-Australia Agreement, but in so far as the duty is protective it will fall for review by the Australian Tariff Board in accordance with the provisions of Articles 10 and 11 of the Agreement. I may add that the Commonwealth Government have undertaken to remove or reduce the primage duty of 10 per cent. ad valorem as soon as the finances of Australia will allow.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much revenue he has received from elastics in piece imported into this country from the United States of America during the last 12 months; and whether he has received any claim for repayment of any part of this revenue?

Elastics in the piece do not constitute a separate tariff class, and I regret, therefore, that the information asked for in the first part of the question is not available. As regards the second part, one claim for repayment of duty on certain elastic imported from the United States of America was made on the ground that the elastic was not in the piece, and, therefore, not chargeable with duty under the Abnormal Importations (Customs Duties) Act, 1931. This case was settled by a referee appointed under the Act.

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he has made representations to the Canadian Government as to the removal from the Free List since 20th August of regenerated cellulose; and whether he has received any explanation thereof?

This matter is being taken up with His Majesty's Government in Canada

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how it is intended to define Canadian wheat in the working of the Ottawa Agreement; and if it is proposed to confine the British preference to Canadian wheat shipped through Canadian ports?

Canadian wheat means wheat grown in Canada which satisfies the conditions of Sub-section (1) of Clause 2 of the Ottawa Agreements Bill. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer to the full statement made by the Financial Secretary last night on an Amendment on this subject moved by the hon. Member for West Derby (Sir J. Sandeman Allen).

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of us were not quite clear as to the meaning of the statement?

I am very much surprised to hear that.

If Canadian wheat is defined as being solely Canadian wheat shipped from Canadian ports, is it not the case that the whole preference will he abolished, or there will be the extra cost of transport from Halifax, Nova Scotia?

If my hon. Friend will read the Bill, he will see that it is not so defined.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if his attention has been drawn to the inconvenience and expense caused to importers arising from delays due to the present working arrangements of customs officials at docks and bonded warehouses; and, if so, what action he proposes to take in the matter?

I am aware that representations have been made with reference to the hours during which free attendance is given by Customs officers for the examination and clearance of imported goods. Customs officers attend free of charge to the merchant for the examination of dutiable goods between the hours of 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. or 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., as may best suit local conditions, and longer, if desired, on payment of a fee by the trader. Little advantage is now taken of the latter provision. Customs officers also give free attendance for the examination of goods not liable to duty between the hours of 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. This latter service covers the large range of Empire goods which are exempt from duty under the Preference arrangements. After very careful consideration of all the relevant facts, I am satisfied that there are not sufficient grounds to justify any alteration of the hours during which free attendance is given.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, if he is aware of the dumping of Japanese textiles into this country; that a coloured striped-silk cloth is being sold in the English market for 1933 contracts at 2s. 9d. a yard, upon which duty of ls. 2d. per yard has been paid; that a committee of Macclesfield manufacturers estimate the cost price in the Macclesfield mills of the same cloth as 4s. H. per yard without any overhead charges, rent, rates, taxes, power, selling costs, etc.; and if it is the intention of the Government to take action in this and other cases of dumping?

My attention has not previously been drawn to this matter, but my right hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, has asked the Import Duties Advisory Committee to investigate the whole situation in relation to the silk duties, and it is open to the silk industry in this country to make representations to that committee.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if his attention has been called to the dumping by Japanese manufacturers into the West Indies of artificial silk cloth, sold at 4—d. per yard; if he is aware that no kind of duty which could be considered would enable British manufacturers to compete with these prices; and if he will take steps to safeguard British exporters from competition of this kind?

My hon. Friend will be aware that there is already a preference on these materials in all the British West Indian Colonies. My right hon. Friend realises, however, that even a substantial preference may be ineffective to countervail special cases of dumping.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office the wages per week paid to the limber gunners at the school of artillery, Larkill, Salisbury Plain; whether these men receive any other allowance and, if so, what is its nature; what is the reason for such a low scale of payment; and whether there are any other War Department employés who receive less than £2 a week, including any allowances?

The authorised rate of cash wages of these employés at the present time is 24s. 9d. plus Civil Service bonus, total 37s. 2d. In addition, they receive from public funds an issue of clothing on first employment, with an allowance after 12 months of 2s. 3d. a month for its upkeep. The figure of 24s. 9d. represents a rate of 25s. agreed upon by the appropriate Industrial Whitley Council in 1931 as a basic rate for this class of labour, less a deduction of 3d. a week in respect of clothing. The answer to the last part of the question is in the affirmative.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office the amount of surplus war-medal ribbon recently disposed of; the method of disposal; and the amount of money received in relation to the cost of production?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave on 27th October to my hon. Friend the Member for East Leicester (Mr. Lyons). The ribbon was disposed of by tender.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office if any cavalry officers are now available to replace the Royal Artillery officer who temporarily holds the position of officer in charge of cavalry records?

There are cavalry officers available for this post, and it is probable that a cavalry officer will be selected when the present holder vacates the appointment.

Does that mean this year?

No, Sir.

Does it mean next year, or some time?

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office what progress has been made by the Committee appointed to consider the question of an improved dress and equipment for the soldier on actice service or manœuvres?

The Committee have reached provisional decisions as to the articles of dress and equipment they propose to recommend for infantry during training and on active service. Their suggestions are designed primarily to lighten the weight carried by the soldier and to make for his comfort, but, before their value can be ascertained, it is necessary that the new dress and equipment should be given a thorough trial under all possible conditions of both manœuvres and training. It will be some months before final conclusions can be reached as a result of this experiment.

Is this in addition to the normal issue of clothing made to British soldiers in peace time?

These are alterations which have not yet been decided upon.

asked the Postmaster-General what was the gross salary, including commission, paid to the postmaster of Bala for the year 1931; and what was the net salary after payment of rent, wages of assistants, and other office expenses?

The gross emoluments of the sub-postmaster of Bala for the year 1931 were approximately.2358; and the net remuneration, after payment of necessary disbursements, is estimated at £220. Sub-postmasters are not required to give personal full-time service.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that in calculating the fees charged for letters sent by air-mail insufficient allowance is made for the fact that no transport service is provided in respect of the normal charges of1½ and 2½d. which are made in addition to the air-mail fee; and whether he will consider abolishing such additional charges in order to encourage the deevlopment of commercial aviation?

I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the reply given yesterday to the hon. Member for Hallam (Mr. L. Smith).

Will the Postmaster-General give this matter further con- sideration? Would not the revenue increase if the charges were more equitable?

If my hon. Friend will refer to the answer which I gave yesterday, he will find that I said:

"The air mails to practically all foreign countries outside. Europe and a considerable proportion of the air mails to European countries are conveyed for part of their journey by rail and steamboat and have to carry the same transport charges as ordinary letters."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 31st October, 1932; col. 1446, Vol 269.]

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the fact that British commercial aviation is being hampered by the high fees and other restrictions imposed by the Post Office, he will consider setting up a committee to inquire into the matter and make recommendations as to how in the public interest development of commercial aviation may be best promoted?

My hon. Friend appears to he under some misapprehension. The fees charged by my Department are not more than sufficient to meet the costs and compare favourably with those charged by foreign post offices; since last year the air mails carried by British machines have increased by 30 per cent., and the total air mail carried from this country by 17 per cent. The total air mail traffic has doubled itself in the last three years. I do not therefore propose to adopt my hon. Friend's suggestion.

May I ask if the Post Office profits, arising out of Air Services, are to any extent used for subsidising foreign Air Services?

No, Sir; I made that plain yesterday.

In that case, may I ask how the £8,000 difference between the profit arising out of British Air Services and the £5,000 arising out of Foreign Air Services is made up? There is a difference of £8,000. The correct profit from Air Services—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech!"]—for the Post Office is only £5,000.

I am afraid that I cannot follow my hon. Friend's arithmetic, but perhaps he had better go into the matter with me in private.

asked the Minister of Health how many cases of typhoid have been discovered at Malton to date; the present condition of the patients; where these are being treated; and whether the cause of the outbreak has been located?

Eighty-eight cases of typhoid fever are known to have occurred at Malton up to and including 30th October. My right hon. Friend is unable to say anything about the condition of individual patients, except that three of the patients have died. Patients are being treated in the fever hospitals at York and Driffield and in the cottage hospital at Malton, which has been temporarily appropriated for the purpose. As my right hon. Friend is at present advised, the infection appears to have been water-borne, but he will communicate further with my hon. Friend when he has received the report of his medical officer who has been investigating the outbreak.

Will my hon. Friend do all that he can to help the local authorities, both in the location of the cause of the outbreak and in the provision of an alternative water supply?

Certainly. I understand that steps are already being taken in consultation with the local authorities.

asked the Minister of Health if any credal tests are imposed on pupils who are training in the Clapham Maternity Training Hospital?

My right hon. Friend has no information on the point raised by my hon. Friend. I should, perhaps, add that my right hon. Friend's concern is solely with the efficiency of the training given in such an institution.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that representations were made on behalf of the lady who had to resign because she adopted the Catholic faith; and is he aware that the reply of the secretary—

You must not read a supplementary question.

Is the hon. Gentleman also aware that the reply of the secretary of the institution was to the effect that he was amazed that exception was taken to the action of the authorities?

I am afraid that no action can be taken, because grants are not made to approved training centres, but to the individuals concerned. The remedy seems to be to go to some other training centre.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that contributions are made by the State to this maternity home; and is he also aware that this lady has had to leave her job and be "sacked" because she embraced the Catholic faith?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the approximate cost of the 5 per cent. War Loan conversion operation, including that of the cash bonuses and advertising?

The cost of the cash bonus and commissions will approximate to £23,000,000, and the remaining expenses including cost of additional staffs, advertising and postage to £600,000.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether any profit made by the use of the Exchange Equalisation Fund will be used to assist in the balancing of next year's Budget?

Part IV of the recent Finance Act under which the Exchange Equalisation Account was set up made no provision for the appropriation to Budgetary Revenue of any profits arising from the operation of the Account. Section 26 of the Act contemplates that any such profits shall be retained in the Account until it is wound up, and then applied to the redemption of debt.

Does that debar Chancellors of the Exchequer from using this fund, seeing that they have occasionally raided the Sinking Ford?

This is a statutory fund and cannot he raided.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the fact that hardship is being experienced by taxpayers over the reforms instituted in the first 1031–32 Budget, he will take steps to revert to the previous system of income tax collecting, which enabled easier personal contact between the collectors and the income-tax payers?

It would not now be practicable to abandon the reforms to which my hon. Friend refers and to return to a system of collection which was condemned by the Royal Commission on the Income Tax in 1920 and by the Public Accounts Committee in 1926. The reforms were designed to provide greater security for the Revenue and to reduce the cost of administration without diminishing the facilities afforded to taxpayers generally, and the experience so far available shows that both these objects are in process of being attained.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that in towns 12 miles distant from the main centre the payers of taxes have to waste a whole afternoon, often at a cost of 3s. or 3s. 6d., in order to come in and chat with the Income Tax collector; and does he not consider that something could be done to alleviate that?

If my hon. Friend will send me particulars of the case she has in mind, I will look into it.

Thank you very much.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what date the Report of the committee investigating the question of the taxation of co-operative societies is to be expected?

A similar question was answered on 11th July last in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for the Hillsborough Division of Sheffield (Mr. G. Braithwaite). I am sending my hon. Friend a copy.

I beg to move, in page 8, line 34, at the end, to insert the words "after holding a public inquiry."

This Clause is one of paramount importance when considered in conjunction with the many important details contained in the Bill. The desire of the Amendment is to see that full publicity shall be given to any proposed alterations that this part of the Bill allows to be made by the Board of Trade. We are not unmindful of the very good qualities contained in those who guide that organisation, nor do we think that they would run hastily into conditions or accept assertions which would not be in their opinion in the best interests of the country, but we recollect that in the past the Board of Trade has found it difficult to get authentic information from employers on other matters, and it is possible that the difficulties that they have previously experienced along these lines might display themselves in the circumstances supposed to be covered by the Bill. The Clause says that, if at any time the Board of Trade are satisfied that any preferences granted by this Act are likely to be frustrated in whole or in part by reason of the action by any other foreign country, they shall have the right to prohibit importation.

Notwithstanding what I have said with regard to the Board of Trade, I cannot forget that Members of this House who went to Ottawa were supposed to have for their guidance individuals connected with the various Departments, and also representatives of the various trades of the country, who were there for the sole purpose of giving them detailed guidance as to what was best for the country. On the last occasion that I spoke on the matter I referred to a letter that had been placed in the possession of every Member of the House from the Chloride Storage Battery Company, and I presume that every Member of the House has today received a reprint from the "Manchester Guardian" affecting the same matter. If such a thing could take place at Ottawa, with all the experts at the disposal of the people who were negotiating the basis of this Bill, the same possibility might arise again. I am aware that the element of speed is one of importance in a matter such as this, but the employing organisations of the country are welt aware of the opportunities that there are in the Bill for and against them, and if it were agreed, as we suggest, that a public inquiry should take place it should not be visualised that such an inquiry would take the length of time that it would in normal conditions, because the organisations representing employers and labour are at present paying attention to these matters and, therefore, they could more speedily knit themselves into any inquiry that might be agreed upon.

I have not the least idea what was the communication to which the hon. Member referred, not having received a copy myself, but I judge from what he said that he is really under a fundamental misapprehension as to the purpose of the Clause. I gather that he had some idea that this was a matter of special interest to traders in this country, but I may perhaps be allowed to remind him that the Clause is merely for the purpose of implementing an agreement made with the Dominion of Canada, and that one thing that the Board of Trade has to be satisfied of before taking any action under the Clause, is that certain preferences granted by this Act in respect of particular goods, preferences which are in fulfilment of the agreement with the Dominion of Canada, are likely to be frustrated in whole or in part. That is the purpose of the Clause, and, if that purpose is to be effected, it is obvious that the powers to be exercised must be capable of being exercised promptly. Unless they can be exercised promptly, it is not likely that they will be of any effective use at all.

For that reason alone, therefore, I shall have to ask the Committee to reject the Amendment. I may, further, perhaps point out that, for the purpose of satisfying themselves whether the preferences are being frustrated in whole or in part, it may be necessary for the Board of Trade to make confidential inquiries, and to ask traders to give them information of a confidential character. That would be entirely defeated if there had to be a public inquiry, and indeed, as part of the information may have to come from Canada, it is obvious that a public inquiry of the kind that the hon. Member appeared to suggest would hardly be practicable in the circumstances. I must, therefore, hope that he will not press the Amendment to a Division, and, if he does, I must ask the Committee to reject it.

I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman a question with regard to the Amendment and the remarks which he has just made. He will notice that Subsection (3) of the Clause says that:

"No order shall he made under this section except with the concurrence of the Treasury,"

and that later on in Clause 11 it says:

"The Treasury may refer to the Import Duties Advisory Committee for consideration any question connected with the discharge of the functions of the Treasury under this Act."

May me take it that in all cases where the Board of Trade may think it necessary to take action under this Clause, they will refer the matter to the Import Duties Advisory Committee before they take such action? If he would give us an undertaking that in no circumstances would they take such action without the approval of, and inquiry by, the Import Duties Advisory Committee, it would go some way, at any rate, to meet the objections which have been advanced.

No, Sir. I cannot give any such undertaking. It might very likely happen, and in most cases, I venture to say, would happen, that it would be impossible for the Import Duties Advisory Committee to give any useful advice or information to the Board of Trade upon the subject. If, however, the Treasury thought that they desired their advice, of course, they would have power to ask it.

At an earlier stage, when we were discussing this matter on another Amendment which we put down that there should be consultation first of all with the Import Duties Advisory Committee, we understood from the Financial Secretary to the Treasury that the difficulty was really one of machinery. I rather hoped that at this stage the Government would have devised some appropriate machinery, because, while it is a question of implementing an Agreement made with Canada in the interests generally of the Dominions, it does not do entirely to forget the interests of people in this country. We are giving here a very arbitrary power to the Board of Trade suddenly to step in and, in fact, upset the course of business. It is going to be done in the interests of certain persons who send goods to this country. I think that there ought to be some opportunity for the users of those goods to see that a case is made out. We may have the Board of Trade requiring to be satisfied in regard to particular goods required in a business which has been built up—it is a very wide Clause containing the phrase "directly or indirectly"—and somehow or other the goods may be interfered with, the supply cut off, and great disturbance caused.

While it may be necessary to act perhaps with some degree of promptness, yet, after all, that promptitude ought to be tempered by an inquiry allowing the possibility of representation to be made by the interests affected. I cannot see that it should necessarily take so very long if you have some kind of inquiry and publicity in the matter. The right hon. Gentleman will realise that, although, as we understand, this particular proposal is directed to a special matter—imports from Russia—yet, as it is drafted, it is capable of an extremely wide application. The general tendency will be to unsettle traders in this country who will not know how to carry on their business under such conditions. There certainly ought to be greater opportunities afforded to them to make representations and, if possible, a proper inquiry.

I am prompted to point out to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that, although the Import Duties Advisory Committee met with very great opposition in the House of Commons from certain quarters, those same people are now completely converted to the idea of seeking to use it on every possible occasion. It is worth while the Chancellor of the Exchequer taking note of that fact, because even the most hopeless of four-wheeler minds occasionally learn something in the House of Commons.

Really, for the hon. Member for Torquay (Mr. C. Williams) to read into the suggestion that further steps should be taken and that there should be an inquiry that my hon. Friend the Member for Banff (Sir M. Wood) approves of the whole thing is ridiculous.

I was only referring to the more advanced sub-section of that section of the Liberal party.

I do not know to whom the hon. Gentleman was referring, but the suggestion was absurd. The more inquiry you have the better. It is an appointed body and it is proper for my hon. Friend to suggest that it should be made use of. I support what was so ably said by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Limehouse (Mr. Attlee). When one comes to read the Clause, the explanation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard to what the Amendment proposes, namely, that there should be an inquiry, is a lame one. I would ask hon. Members to read the Clause where it states that

"If at any time the Board of Trade are satisfied that any preferences….. are likely to be frustrated in whole or in part by reason of the creation or maintenance, directly or indirectly, of prices for that class or description of goods through State action on the part of any foreign country, the Board of Trade may by order prohibit the importation."

Suppose that a foreign Government went in for a policy of inflation which raised prices, is the Board of Trade then to come in and frustrate the importation of foreign articles? There are a hundred and one cases which might arise with which the Board of Trade in its wisdom might have to deal. I do not doubt that there are many able men in the Board of Trade in whom we have confidence, yet the Clause gives these very wide powers to the Board of Trade. The only object in debating this matter is purely academic, because we know that hon. Members will go into the Lobby and support the Government. But, after all, perhaps we do serve a useful purpose if, as we go along, we point out what is being done. Let us think what we are doing. It does not matter whether we are Free Traders or Tariff Reformers, we are giving power to the Board of Trade to prohibit the importation of foreign articles if they think that something is being done through some State action on the part of a foreign Government to raise or maintain prices which, in their opinion, is not advisable. The Clause contains a monstrous suggestion, and the hon. Gentleman opposite should proceed with his Amendment to a Division.

If my hon. Friend the Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. D. Mason) will take his mind back to 1921 he will find that the Safeguarding of Industries Act passed in that year expressed the intention of this Bill in regard to prohibition by the Board of Trade, and that therefore the principle received the sanction of Parliament 11 years ago. He will find that a whole Section of that Act is devoted to giving power to the Board of Trade to prohibit the importation of articles which are described as dumped in that prices are lowered by deflation of currency in the country of origin. I also ask my hon. Friend to note that that Section of the Safeguarding of Industries Act applies to dumping of all kinds. There is no qualification whatever of the type of dumping to be dealt with under that Section of the Act. The Government, therefore, in limiting the circumstances in which this action may be taken under the Ottawa Agreements, are providing for action which is very much more limited than the Board of Trade were required to take under the Safeguarding of Industries Act, 1921.

I should also like to say, in regard to the speech of the hon. Member for Limehouse (Mr. Attlee), that the point raised by the hon. Member for Banff (Sir M. Wood) could not possibly be conceded. The hon. Member for Banff tried to induce the Chancellor of the Exchequer to say that in every case the question of any action to be taken should be referred to the Import Duties Advisory Committee. If my memory serves me aright, the Import Duties Act gives the Advisory Committee no power to do anything except to recommend the imposition or removal of duties, or the reduction or lessening of duties, whereas Clause 5 of this Bill specifically states that the Board of Trade has power under Sub-section (5) to exercise prohibition. Therefore, it is impossible for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give an undertaking that in every case the action to he taken on that account should be referred to a body which has no power except in regard to recommendations respecting import duties. It is a matter of very much more than the devising of machinery as the hon. Member for Lime-house suggested, and I hope that the Government will resist the Amendment.

The Noble Lady has pointed out the precedent laid down in the Safeguarding of Industries Act of 1921. I presume that she thinks that that is a wise precedent to follow as regards the damping of goods. May I draw her attention to the provision as regards inquiry under that Act? First of all a complaint has to be lodged with the Board of Trade. Secondly, the Board of Trade have to be satisfied on a certain number of matters. Thirdly, the Board of Trade have to refer the matter to a committee, which has to hold an impartial inquiry, before which the parties appear, either themselves or by counsel. As a result of that inquiry the Board of Trade might if the Committee so reported in certain events, put on a duty, but there are several provisos as to safeguards. If the Noble Lady desires that procedure and the Chancellor of the Exchequer will give it to us, we shall be perfectly prepared to withdraw the Amendment.

I was not dealing with that point but specifically with the surprise expressed by the hon. Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Mason) at the idea of prohibition being extended at all to goods coming into this country. I felt bound to remind the Committee of the precedent laid down—I did not say whether it was good or bad—of the Safeguarding of Industries Act.

The argument of the Noble Lady does not seem to touch the matter which we are discussing at the moment. It is not a question of whether there shall or shall not be prohibition, but whether there shall be a public inquiry before the prohibition is put on. I agree with her that if we are to have prohibition we ought to have the procedure as laid down in the Safeguarding of Industries Act. There never has been a power given by this House to a Department to put on a prohibition with no inquiry whatsoever, at which the parties concerned could be represented or heard. It is that proposal to which we object. Whether prohibition be good, bad or indifferent, the people who are vitally interested in this country should have an opportunity of laying their case publicly either before the Board of Trade or some impartial tribunal, before a decision is arrived at which may have such serious effect upon them.

I was thinking of the interests of the people in this country as well as the interests of the Canadian producer. They would not wish to be undersold by State-aided dumping.

I pointed out that it was possible under this Bill for the Treasury to refer certain matters to the Import Duties Advisory Committee. The Noble Lady says that it is not possible for that committee to take cognisance of anything of the kind. I am only suggesting that the machinery laid down in the Bill should be used, but if it 'is impossible for the Import Duties Advisory Committee to have cognisance of these things, there is no meaning in Clause 11.

The hon. Member suggested that in every case of proposed action it should be referred to the Tariff Advisory Committee. That is impossible.

The Amendment before the Committee has nothing to do with the Tariff Advisory Committee. It refers to a public inquiry. A public inquiry is not necessarily of the nature of an inquiry before the Advisory Committee. Therefore, any reference to that Committee is really out of order in relation to this Amendment. It might be in order in relation to an appropriate Amendment. The practical business reason for resisting the Amendment is the terrible forestalling that would inevitably happen if there were a long public inquiry to find out whether the alleged dumping was taking place. If the Board of Trade are satisfied and if they want to take effective steps to prevent the evil from continuing, they must act at once. If there is delay for some weeks such enormous quantities of goods would come in that the purpose of the Ottawa Agreements would be frustrated not merely for a short time but perhaps for a year or so, on account of the enormous forestalling that would be inevitable. When an order has been made it can only remain in operation for 28 Parliamentary days, unless it is confirmed' by Parliament. Therefore, there would