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Written Answers

Volume 272: debated on Thursday 1 December 1932

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Written Answers

Railways (Revenue, Dividends And Wages)

asked the Minister of Transport the gross revenue of the railways of Britain in their last financial year, and the total amount paid in dividends and in wages during the same period?

For the year 1931, the gross receipts of the railway companies in Great Britain were, in round figures, £198,800,000. The total amount paid in interest and dividends on capital was approximately £38,400,000. The total salaries and wages paid amounted to approximately £105,800,000, including wages paid in respect of capital works.

Education

Teachers' Salaries

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education whether he will undertake that all matters affecting the salaries of elementary school teachers shall be referred to the Burnham Committee for consideration and report before being acted upon by the Government?

My Noble Friend is anxious to secure so far as practicable the maintenance of the full machinery of the Burnham Committee, and he will bear that in mind in considering the various recent recommendations for economy.

School-Leaving Age

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education when it is proposed to raise the school-leaving age to 15, and thus ease the position of the boys and girls under 17 who are unemployed?

It is not at present proposed to introduce legislation for raising the compulsory school-leaving age.

Capital Expenditure

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education what are the figures for the six months since 1st April, 1932, and for each of the last three completed financial years of capital expenditure sanctioned in respect of education

The following are the figures:

Proposals for capital expenditure submitted by Local Education Authorities in England and Wales, and sanctioned by the Board of Education.
£
In the year ended—
31st March, 19308,833,000
31st March, 193113,021,000
31st March, 19327,781,000
In the six months ended—
30th September, 19321,632,000

National Health Insurance

asked the Minister of Health what representations have been made to him by the approved societies or the doctors on the difficulties which exist on the subject of proper certification; and whether the Ministry is taking any action in the matter to ensure smoother working of the Health Insurance Acts in this respect?

The maintenance of a proper standard of medical certification of incapacity to work is a vital factor in the administration of National Health Insurance, and, naturally, is the subject of frequent representations to my Department and of regular consultation between the Department, the approved societies, and representatives of the medical profession, with a view to the efficient administration of the Acts.

Housing Scheme, Wigan Corporation

asked the Minister of Health whether he has given his approval to the proposals of the Wigan Corporation to engage in a house-building scheme on what is known as the Whelley site; whether such approval includes sanction for the direct employment of labour by the corporation; and whether he is aware that the cost of direct labour methods is estimated to exceed by £500 the lowest competitive tender?

The answer to the first two parts of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the third part, the approved scheme involves a lower total cost to the corporation than the alternative scheme.

Vaccination Laws

asked the Minister of Health whether he has made arrangements to obtain the views of any other public authorities, beyond the county councils, on the present position of the vaccination laws; and, if not, whether he will consult the county boroughs and obtain their views on this matter?

Yes, Sir. I have asked for the views of the County Councils' Association, the Association of Municipal Corporations and the Metropolitan Boroughs Standing Joint Committee.

Unemployment

Agricultural Workers

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware of the extent to which, owing to depressed conditions, farmers in Carmarthenshire are dismissing their labourers; and whether he will consider the feasibility of making to agricultural employers such grants as will enable them to retain on the land workers who otherwise will become unemployed and chargeable to public assistance?

I have no precise information as to the extent to which agricultural workers are being dismissed in Carmarthenshire, but I am aware that there is a prospect of increased unemployment amongst agricultural workers during the next few months. As my hon. Friend is aware, the Government are making every effort to bring about an improvement in the conditions of the agricultural industry, which, I think, is the only really effective means of giving the agricultural worker greater security against unemployment. In reply to the last part of the question, I am willing to examine any practical proposals which may be brought forward by my hon. Friend or by others, but I cannot hold out any hopes that a proposal to subsidise wages out of Government funds such as my hon. Friend appears to suggest would be found to be practicable.

Insurance

asked the Minister of Labour whether in connection with the contemplated Unemployment Insurance Bill, he will consider the pro- vision of dependant's benefit to a son or daughter who wholly or mainly maintains a mother who has been deserted by her husband?

Hornsby

asked the Minister of Labour how many women are unemployed in the borough of Hornsey and their approximate ages; and how many receive unemployment benefit?

Separate statistics of unemployment for the borough of Hornsey are not available. The majority of unemployed persons resident in Hornsey probably register at the Wood Green Employment Exchange, and the numbers of women aged 18 and over on the registers of that Exchange at 24th October, 1932, were as follow:

Numbers insured and uninsured on Registers.Numbers of insured women with claims admitted (included in column 1).
1.2.
Aged 21 and over.687445
Aged 18 to 2013098
817543
I regret that it is not possible to furnish any detailed age analysis of the numbers aged 21 and over.

Transitional Payments

asked the Minister of Labour the latest figures in his possession of the saving through the application of the means test; and the cost of administration?

So far as can be estimated, it is considered that the saving in the amount of transitional payments owing to the needs test is at the rate of about £15,000,000 per annum. The grant payable to public assistance authorities for the current financial year will amount to about £750,000; in addition there is some increase in the administrative costs of the Ministry, the amount of which cannot readily be estimated.

Government Departments (Ministry Of Labour)

asked the Minister of Labour whether his Department is yet in the position to reply to representations made by the Civil Service Clerical Association on 17th October, regarding the inadequacy of the staffing arrangements in his Department consequent upon an unemployment figure of 4 per cent. being taken as a basis?

The Department have at the present under examination the clerical complement of the Claims and Record Office, Kew, in respect of which the Civil Service Clerical Association made oral representations. The Department are waiting for written representations which it was agreed by the Association's representatives on 17th October last would be sent in due course.

asked the Minister of Labour in which sub-departments and divisions of his Department the numbers and gradings of staffs employed differ from the numbers and gradings provided for in the Estimates of his Department for 1932–33; and if he will furnish detailed information regarding the differences?

To give a detailed statement of all the changes that necessarily occur during the year in so large a staff as that of the Ministry of Labour would involve labour not commensurate with any result that could be obtained. If, however, the hon. Member has any particular department or branch in mind and will let me know, I shall be glad to supply the figures.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of writing assistants holding active appointments as clerical officers and the number of S-class clerks holding posts above Grade 3 in his Department; and whether, in view of this recognition of their ability to perform superior duties, he will appoint them substantively to the clerical grade and thus avoid the expense of making new appointments to this Grade?

Twenty-two writing assistants are holding acting appointments as clerical officers. Among the "P" Class and temporary clerks with the prescribed period of service qualifying them for appointment to the "S" Class, there are 1,286 male officers in all offices of the Ministry holding rank above Grade III. The appointment of the writing assistants to the clerical class is under active consideration. The clerks appointed to the "S" Class will, in accordance with the Report of the Temporary Staffs Committee, 1932, be eligible for promotion to the clerical grade. I would also refer the hon. Member to the reply given on 29th November to the hon. Member for Deritend (Mr. Smedley Crooke).

asked the Minister of Labour (1) the number of vacancies in the employment clerk grade which have been filled during the past 12 months by promotion of ex-service temporary clerks;(2) Whether he proposes to fill the vacancies at present existing in the employment clerk grade by promoting serving temporary clerks wherever possible?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply on the same points given to the hon. Member for Plaistow (Mr. Thorne) on Monday, 28th November.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the average length of service of the temporary clerks in his Department?

The information asked for is not available. It could only be obtained by special inquiry into thousands of individual records, a heavy task which I do not feel I should be justified in undertaking.

North Charterland Exploration Company

asked the Attorney-General whether he will make a further statement with regard to the conduct of the case for the Crown in the North Charterland Concession inquiry, in view of the repetition of the allegations dealt with in his answer of 9th November

As my conduct of the Crown case in the North Charterland Inquiry has been so seriously attacked, I must record a somewhat full account of my connection with the case.The North Charterland Exploration Company claimed an absolute freehold of 10,000 square miles and that there was no right in His Majesty to set aside native reserves therein. They brought a Petition of Right, but the merits of the case could not be decided because the Crown succeeded on a demurrer that the Order-in-Council of 1928 was a complete answer. The company thereupon asked for a public inquiry, and Lord Passfield promised that, if certain necessary conditions were accepted by the company, such an inquiry would be held. The conditions and terms of reference settled by my predecessor were communicated to the company by a letter of the 17th September, 1931. The company objected to the conditions. On the 1st December the Secretary of State, who had recently assumed office, had a consultation with the former Attorney-General and myself and decided that a public inquiry was to be held as far as possible as though it were an ordinary action in the Courts. The Crown was to claim no privilege and every possible facility was to be given to investigate any claims against or by the Crown which could not be dealt with by litigation owing to the Order-in-Council of 22nd March, 1928. He also decided to waive the requirement that the company should agree in advance the consequences which would follow on the findings of the Commissioner and to leave that question to be considered when the results of the inquiry were known and that the company should be informed that he would regard himself as free to consider the whole matter on its merits in the light of the Commissioner's findings, but could not in that case be bound by any pledges which had been given to the company in connection with the agreement of 29th September, 1923, or the Order-in-Council of 1928. The chairman accepted these terms on behalf of the company.I conducted the case on behalf of the Crown, instructed by the Treasury Solicitor. In order to carry my instructions into effect, the very unusual course was taken of disclosing all relevant documents in the Colonial Office and Foreign Office, however confidential, and placing them without exception at the disposal of the company's solicitors. My right hon. Friend the First Commissioner of Works, who had conducted the negotiations of 1923, undertook to give evidence, and arrangements were made to obtain the assistance, as far as possible, of any officials who had been connected with the matter. One of these gentlemen was certainly not in a condition to give evidence, and I understand that this was not disputed. A second, who had been invalided from the public service in 1929 after a long and serious illness, had by Lord Passfield's direction been visited by two of his officers, one a barrister of long standing, to ascertain what evidence he could give. In reporting to Lord Pass field these officers stated that, in their opinion, the condition of their former colleague was not such as to justify the risk of asking him to give evidence, since their definite impression was that, while his mental faculties were unimpaired, any nervous or physical strain would be dangerous.When, during the preliminaries of the inquiry, I was engaged in seeing that all material evidence in the possession of the Crown was made available, I reviewed the question of calling this particular ex-official and came to the definite conclusion that I would not be justified in imposing any strain on him. I was asked by the Colonial Office if a medical certificate should be obtained, but replied in the negative, as I considered that my assurance would be accepted, and that, if a certificate was desired, steps to that end could be taken. I was not asked for one at the inquiry. The allegation that I made any statement to the effect that this ex-official was in a lunatic asylum is wholly untrue; and Mr. Green informs me that it is equally untrue that he made any such statement. As the Commissioner found wholly in favour of the company's case on the negotiations for the agreement of 29th September, 1923, on which alone the ex-official could have given evidence, it is difficult to see how his absence could possibly have prejudiced the company in connection with any claim by or against the Crown. I may explain that by this agreement, to which the North Charterland Company was not a party and by which it was not bound, the Crown promised Ole then administrators, the British South Africa Company, to recognise the title of the North Charterland Company while preserving what the British South Africa Company and the Colonial Office believed to be the rights (under the Order in Council of 1900) of the Crown to set aside native reserves. It is obvious that, if it could be shown that the British South Africa Company had held itself out to the Secretary of State in 1923 as having authority to bind the North Charterland Company, this fact would have been a valuable asset to the Crown. It would have been a dereliction of my duty not to have made use of such a position, if available. My predecessor in connection with the Petition of Right, and both he and I in connection with the inquiry, considered this matter, and both came to the conclusion that there was no evidence on which to base such a claim.The result of the inquiry was briefly as follows: The company's claim to have received a title to land in 1895 failed. The Commissioner however, found that a good title was given in 1906, but, subject to the right of His Majesty under the Order in Council of 29th January, 1900, to set apart such portions of the said land, as were thought fit, for native reserves without compensation, provided that these reserves, while sufficient for the requirements of natives inhabiting the tract, did not include land for immigrants from Portuguese territory after 1910 other than natives returning to their tribal areas; or land for a substantial export enterprise. The Commissioner expressed no opinion whether in fact the reserves did include such land. In view of this finding the fourth question submitted to the Commissioner is of vital importance. The question was as follows:

"Whether at any time the North Charterland Company ratified the said Agreement or acquiesced in or accepted the inclusion in the said Agreement of Articles 3 (e) and 3 (f), and if so when, how and in what circumstances."

In answering this question the commissioner found as follows:

"I must therefore report that by the letter of the 10th February, 1927, the North Charterland Company, being aware that Articles 3 (e) and 3 (f) had been inserted without authority in the agreement of the 29th September, 1923, and that the company was not bound or affected by the terms of those Articles, did in fact acquiesce to this extent that the company accepted the proposed provisions for the allocation of native reserves; in other words, the company acquiesced in an administrative step based on the assumption that the Crown had the right without compensation to set aside out of the tract such native reserves as it thought proper. The acquiescence in question was partly due to a desire to have the title to the tract, questioned as it had been by the Colonial Office letter of the 12th August, 1926, definitely admitted; and partly to a desire to avoid the costly proceedings which might have been necessary to establish the title."

The Commissioner further found that:

"As a matter of law I do not think that the North Charterland Company were justified in withdrawing from what was in sub- stance a settlement or compromise merely because facts had come to their knowledge tending to show that the company were deriving little benefit or advantage as a result of it."

I wish to take the opportunity of stating that the Commissioner's assumption that the correspondence of 1895 was not known to the Colonial Office in 1923 is not, in fact, correct. The archives were and are in the Foreign Office and copies were available in the Colonial Office, though it is clear, having regard to the Commissioner's finding on points of law, that the Colonial Office placed a wrong interpretation on the letters. This, however, does not dispose of the doubts which were entertained as to the company's title, inasmuch as the Commissioner found that there were other reasonable doubts which might have existed at the time as to the title of the North Charterland Company.

On receipt of the Commissioner's findings, the Secretary of State consulted me on the proper way of exercising the discretion, which, by the arrangement accepted by the company lay in him.

I advised as follows:

  • "(1) In my opinion it is clear that the answer of the Commissioner to question 4, in law, disposes of the whole of the company's case. That is to say, if the company had been in a position to sue the Crown in proceedings in which neither any privilege of the Crown, nor any Order in Council had been relied on, the company would have failed in their Action.
  • (2) I think the Secretary of State is right in regarding himself as a trustee. Assuming this to be his position, I not only think that the Secretary of State is properly entitled to rely upon the answer to question 4 as finally determining the matter, but in my opinion he is bound to adopt that attitude.
  • (3) Even assuming the Secretary of State does not regard himself as trustee, he is reasonably entitled to take full advantage of the answer to question 4 and to bold the company to the terms of the settlement. The facts stated by the Commissioner in paragraphs 63 to 72 are such as in my opinion to make it quite unreasonable to expect the Secretary of State not to hold the company to the bargain which they made."
  • India

    Civil Service

    asked the Secretary of State for India what was the relative proportion and total of British and Indian candidates among those successful for Indian Civil Service appointments in the years 1931 and 1932, respectively?

    During the recruiting year 1931–32 24 British and 22 Indian candidates were appointed to the Indian Civil Service. Recruitment for the year 193–33 is not yet complete; up to the present, 14 British and 16 Indian candidates have been selected for appointment.

    Mr Gandhi

    asked the Secretary of State for India whether negotiations have been re-opened with Mr. Gandhi; and, if so, for what purpose and on what conditions?

    Companies' Balance Sheets

    asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will consider making it compulsory for limited liability companies to show in their balance sheets the market value of ther concerns, including investments, at the date when the balance sheet is drawn, and not the value at the time of the purchase of such assets?

    Section 124 (1) of the Companies Act, 1929, provides that the balance sheet shall show the assets of a company with such particulars as are necessary to distinguish between the amounts respectively of the fixed assets and of the floating assets, and shall state how the values of the fixed assets have been arrived at. The hon. Member's suggestion that further particulars should be required has been noted for investigation when the question of the amendment of the Companies Act is under consideration.

    Works, Gloucestershire (Dust)

    asked the Home Secretary how many cases of manganese poisoning have occurred in Gloucestershire during the last 12 months, and whether any steps have been taken to prevent this occurring?

    My right hon. Friend is not aware of the occurrence of any such case in the period mentioned. The con- ditions at the Gloucestershire works which my hon. Friend no doubt has in mind have been the subject of close attention from the Factory Department, and I understand that new plant is to be installed within the next month or two as a result of which it is anticipated that the conditions as regards dust should be much improved.

    Police (Pay)

    asked the Home Secretary the areas in which the standing joint committees or watch committees have protested to him with regard to the rejection of the recommendations of the police council against the second economy cut in police pay; and whether he proposes to convene the Police Council again?

    My right hon. Friend has received representations from the police authorities of nine cities and boroughs expressing regret at the decision to impose the further cut in police pay. The Government's reasons for their action were explained in the statement issued when the cut was imposed early in November. No useful purpose would be served by summoning a further Police Council to consider this matter at the present juncture.