asked the Secretary of State for India the amount of the subsidy annually paid by the Government of India to the North-West Frontier Province; and how long is it estimated that this payment will be necessary?

The amount is one crore of rupees (£750,000) a year. Owing to the geographical position of the province, its budget has to cover quasi-military expenditure of a kind from which the other provinces are exempt. In these special circumstances, it is likely that the subvention will be required for an indefinite period.

asked the Secretary of State for India if he will give an assurance that in any negotiations regarding the future government of Burma he will make certain that no other country obtains more favourable terms for their imports into that country than this country for all goods, including cotton textiles?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the importance of the Burmese market for the Lancashire cotton industry, he will give an undertaking that Burma will not be subjected to the Indian fiscal policy, but will be left to make mutual preferential arrangements with Great Britain?

Both questions assume that Burma will be separated from India; but that is a matter which awaits the recommendations of the Joint Select Committee and the decision of Parliament. I anticipate that if the decision is for separation Parliament would find it necessary to arrange that it entails no sudden and serious dislocation of the close trade connection with India on which Burma's prosperity at present largely depends, but to do so with the least possible limitation of Burma's freedom to establish her trade relations with other countries upon a basis consistent with the interests of Burma herself rather than with those of India as at present.

asked the Secretary of State for India if, in view of the fact that the Indian Government proposes to abolish the 5 per cent. export duty on raw cowhides, he will make representations to the Indian Government to abolish the export duty of 5 per cent. on raw goatskins exported to various parts of the Empire, and particularly to this country, which is rapidly increasing the consumption of these skins, in order to encourage British tanners, who are now the second largest consumers in the world of Indian goatskins?

I will communicate my hon. Friend's suggestion to the Government of India.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the abolition of this export duty will considerably assist British trade?

I will bring my hon. Friend's supplementary question also to the notice of the Government of India.

asked the Secretary of State for India if he will call for a report from the Government of India regarding the progress of Indianisation in the Indian Army, and publish the opinions of competent officers regarding the fighting value of the new units?

No, Sir. The time has not come for judging the success or failure of the experiment. In any case, it would be contrary to every precedent to publish reports on the fighting value of individual units.

Surely several years have passed since this process of Indianisation was commenced; and is it not necessary, as the process involves the axing of a large number of British officers, to ascertain whether it is on the right lines or not?

I should not agree that the process calls for the axing of a large number of British officers. I should say that obviously the experiment has not yet sufficiently advanced for a conclusion to be drawn from it, when it is remembered that no Indian officer, as far as I am aware, has yet reached the rank of a company commander or a squadron commander.

What is the opinion of British commanding officers as to the possibility of the scheme being a success? Can we know that?

I have already said that it is generally held in military and civil circles that the experiment has not reached a point at which one can draw a conclusion.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether the question of the separation of Sind will be considered and finally decided by Parliament?

No, Sir.

Is the Hindu minority to be absolutely sacrificed without Parliament giving any opinion on the matter?

I beg the hon. and gallant Member's pardon. The answer is really: Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for India (1) the procedure for hearing and deciding charges brought against Government servants under the recent Order; whether such servants are to be given adequate facilities for defence without prejudice to their retention of employment; and whether he will state the penalties to be applied against persons who may be convicted of taking an active interest in and aiding a political party or having permitted or failed to report upon the political activities of any member or servant of their household;

(2) whether he will publish, as a White Paper, the notice issued by the Government of India amending the Government Servants Conduct Rules so as to deprive all Government servants of all political rights and of participation in the public affairs of India?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether servants of the Government of India are by regulation being held responsible for the political behaviour of their relatives; and whether, by the recent regulation, it is regarded as misconduct on the part of a Government servant if he fails to report the political activities of his relatives?

I am placing a copy of the Rules and the Amendment in the Library of the House. The Rule in question, before its Amendment, prohibited Government servants from taking part in any political movement in India or relating to Indian affairs. The effect of the Amendment is twofold. In the first place, it defines the meaning of the expression "political movement." Secondly, it makes Government servants responsible for preventing or bringing to notice cases in which persons dependent on them, not necessarily their relatives, may be participating in subversive movements such as, for example, terrorist activities. As regards penalties, the question of their imposition and nature would necessarily depend on the circumstances of each particular case. Disciplinary measures under the Rule as amended will be subject to the usual provision that no member of a Service may be dismissed or reduced without being afforded an adequate opportunity of defending himself.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the White Paper will be available?

I am placing a copy of the rules in the Library of the House. I think they are already there.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the inconvenience caused by the fact that all wireless messages sent from India to England have to be paid for on a gold franc basis, he will direct that all inter-Imperial wireless messages transmitted from India to this country by the Imperial and International Communications, Limited, shall in future be assessed and paid for on a basis of sterling or the currency of origin?

Although the rates charged for wireless messages sent from India to England are based on the gold franc in accordance with the international practice laid down in the International Telecommunication Convention and the Regulations attached thereto, to which India is a party, the charges to the public are fixed in rupees.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will state the attitude of His Majesty's Government towards the proposal contained in the Rome protocol for bringing into closer relation the Danubian states?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is yet in a position to give the House any further information regarding the pact recently agreed in Rome between the Italian, Austrian and Hungarian Governments?

I have received the texts of the three protocols signed at Rome of which a full summary has been published in the Press. No statement by His Majesty's Government appears to be called for at the present stage.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government has signed, or is proposing to sign, the League of Nations Convention relating to the international status of refugees?

His Majesty's Government have not signed the Convention of the 28th October, 1933, relating to the international status of refugees, but the question whether they should accede to that instrument is at present under consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any reports have been received from His Majesty's representatives in Siam or the Federated Malay States as to the proposal to construct a ship canal across the Isthmus of Kra; and what is the attitude of the Government towards this matter?

I presume that my hon. and gallant Friend is referring to a rumour which has appeared in the Press regarding a scheme of this kind. Such rumours have been in circulation on various occasions in the past. There is no reason to suppose that this rumour is better founded than its predecessors, but I am making inquiries in the matter. No recent reports on this topic have been received from His Majesty's representatives in Siam or the Federated Malay States. The bearing of any such project on British interests would naturally receive the attention of His Majesty's Government.

asked the Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department what is the latest available information as to official participation by foreign countries in the enlarged Levant Fair at Tel Aviv which is to be opened next month; what is the approximate amount of money being spent and space taken by each of these countries; and how this will compare with the expenditure and space taken by Great Britain?

According to the most recent information supplied by the fair authorities, the following countries, in addition to the United Kingdom, will be participating officially at the fair: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, France, Italy, Japan, Poland, Sweden and Switzerland. There is reason to think that participation, official or otherwise, is also contemplated by Czechoslovakia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Holland, Lithuania, Norway, Rumania and Yugoslavia. Very few details are given by the fair authorities as to the extent of these participations or as to the funds to be expended thereon, but, as I have previously stated, I have reason to believe that the participation by this country will be on a satisfactory scale.

asked the Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department whether he has any further information with regard to the Russian loan to Turkey for the erection of cotton mills in Turkey, and how far the buildings have been proceeded with; and if similar buildings are in contemplation in other countries, such as Persia and Iraq?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative; and therefore it is not possible to answer the second part. With regard to the third part, I have no information that definite plans have been made for the erection of a cotton mill in Iraq. In Persia, however, several mills are understood to be in the course of equipment, but not with machinery of Soviet origin.

Can the hon. and gallant Gentleman say whether the export of Russian fabrics to these countries is still continuing?

I should require notice of that question.

Can the hon. and gallant Gentleman say whether the machinery in the textile mills already constructed in Persia is of British origin?

Is it not a fact that machinery has been exported from Lancashire to Persia; that the whole of the machinery from certain mills in Lancashire has been exported; and cannot steps be taken to deal with it?

I should require notice of both those questions.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what was the total value of imports of food and drink from foreign and Empire sources, respectively, in the years 1930 and 1933?

During the year 1930, the total declared value of articles of food and drink, including living animals for food and feeding-stuffs for animals, imported into this country from foreign countries was £283,227,000 and from British countries £176,169,000. The corresponding figures for 1933 are not yet available, but I will send them to my hon. and gallant Friend as soon as they have been compiled.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will obtain information in future as to the location of the purchases by the Russian authorities of Empire-grown tea so as to ascertain whether British exports to Russia under the trade agreement contain purchases of Indian and Ceylon tea represending, in aggregate, additional British trade, or whether the purchases in question are merely the transfer to the United Kingdom of orders which have hitherto been, or would normally be, placed in India or Ceylon and not in the United Kingdom?

I see no reason at present to undertake any special inquiry on this subject, but the working out of the arrangements under Article 3 of the Anglo-Soviet Commercial Agreement will, of course, be watched.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the necessity of making contracts by 1st April, he can now state what arrangements are contemplated or have been made to assist the supply of milk in schools by means of his proposed grant of £500,000; whether the local education authorities are expected to co-operate in this work and how many local authorities have taken steps in this matter; whether any provision is to be made to guarantee the purity of the supplies; whether it is proposed to distribute the milk in bottles or in milk churns; whether the milk is to be given free of cost to the children and, if not, what price they are to pay; and, if the price to them is to be reduced, how is payment of the balance of the cost to be arranged?

As I indicated in the statement which I made on the 22nd February, it is for the Milk Marketing Boards in the first instance to frame programmes for expenditure from the milk publicity fund, which must include arrangements for the supply of milk to schools at reduced rates. Pending the necessary legislation, and the submission of programmes by the Milk Marketing Boards, I am not in a position to make any statement on the points to which the hon. Member refers. I would add, however, that there is no reason to delay the conclusion of contracts in the ordinary way for the Supply of milk to schools for the summer contract period. It would, of course, he open to the parties to make provision for modification, if necessary, as a result of any programmes that may be submitted and approved.

When does the right hon. Gentleman anticipate that he will be able to make a statement?

I am afraid that I cannot give a date, but I will let my hon. Friend know as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the improved state of national finance, he will now remove the restrictions on the operation of Sections 14 and 16 of the Agricultural Land (Utilisation) Act, 1931?

The position is still as stated in the answer which I gave to the question on the same subject which was put to (me by the hon. Member on the 27th November last.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consult with the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a view to the possibility of removing these restrictions?

I am constantly in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has now considered the representations made to him by representatives of the British egg industry in regard to the increasing imports from Denmark and other difficulties with which the industry is faced; and what action, if any, he proposes to take?

I have nothing at present to add to the reply which I gave on 15th March to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Tiverton (Lieut.-Colonel Acland-Troyte).

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is aware that the remuneration for the sale of milk products largely exceeds the profits of the producers; and whether he will take steps to lower distributive milk-product charges to the advantage of both producer and consumer?

As my right hon. Friend will appreciate, I have no power to lower distributive charges.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the situation is very serious, and that producers, in the West of England at any rate, will not sign contracts at figures which are really below the cost of production, while retailers are revelling in profits?

I was asked to take steps to lower distributive charges, and I have no such power.

Has my right hon. Friend no power whatsoever to prevent complete ruin overtaking a large number of farmers in the West country?

Is it not the fact that the producer always gets the dirty end of the stick, and the distributor the clean end in these arrangements?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he can now make a statement as to imports of bacon from foreign countries, having regard to the supply of bacon from home and Dominion sources, which will be available during the period ending 31st December next?

In arriving at a decision on this question, the following factors have been taken into account: (i) the estimated yield of bacon from the pigs contracted to be supplied to factories by producers in Great Britain in the 10 months ending 31st December next and the estimated supply of produce from Northern Ireland, (ii) the estimates of marketings of Canadian, New Zealand and Australian produce furnished by the respective Governments and representing increases on the rates of marketing in the last period of about 10, 25 and 65 per cent. respectively, and (iii) the allocation proposed in the case of the Irish Free State. Having regard to the probable monthly distribution of these supplies, the Government have decided that an even and adequate supply to the market will be secured by increasing the permitted imports of bacon and hams from foreign countries by 3½ per cent. over present current rates in the first half, and decreasing them by 4½ per cent. below present rates in the second half of the period referred to. The foreign Governments concerned are being informed accordingly.

asked the Minister of Agriculture to whom application should be made for compulsory redemption of tithe?

Application should be made to the Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries, 7, Old Bailey, London, E.C.4, from whom instructions and the necessary forms can be obtained. I am sending copies to my hon. Friend.

Will my right hon. Friend give the greatest possible facilities for accelerating this work?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is yet in a position to add to the statements made by him in October last, and several later dates, on the subject of the reconsideration of the position of tithepayers in view of agricultural distress?

Yes, Sir. The Government have decided to introduce amending legislation on the subject of tithe rent-charge, and proposals will, I hope, be put before Parliament before the Easter Recess.

Will my right hon. Friend institute an inquiry into this matter, as that is very much desired by many people?

No; I propose to take action.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the scheme to make the River Nene navigable from the Wash to Northampton, and thence to connect with the inland canal system affording water transport westward to the Severn estuary and Wales; and whether he can make any statement as to the cost and the execution of this scheme?

I have seen references in the Press to the possibility of a scheme such as my hon. Friend mentions, and certain proposals for improving the River Nene from Thrapston upstream, mainly for navigation purposes in connection with industrial development at Corby, were submitted to the Ministry about a year ago by the River Nene Catchment Board for a Government contribution towards the cost. As, however, no part of the operations proposed could be regarded as land drainage works of an emergency character, I was unable to recommend a grant. No detailed scheme was prepared, but the proposals visualised, which could have constituted but a small part of the comprehensive scheme to which my hon. Friend refers, would, I am advised, have cost at least £150,000 to carry out.

asked the Minister of Agriculture what has been the total share and debenture capital of the companies manufacturing beet sugar in Great Britain; and what has been the total amount devoted by those companies, respectively, to reserves, depreciation, unallocated balances, and interest and dividends from the beginning of the subsidy period to the latest date for which figures are available?

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been drawn to the action of certain continental radio stations in broadcasting on wave-lengths not authorised by the Lucerne plan; and whether, as such broadcasts are creating confusion amongst regular broadcasting stations, it is proposed to take any and, if so, what action on this matter?

Since the reply given on the 1st February to a similar question by my hon. Friend the Member for Deptford (Mr. Hanley), European broadcasting authorities have discussed, in conference at Geneva, the possibility of modifying the Lucerne plan in some respects in order to overcome the practical difficulties which have arisen in applying it. The recommendations made by this conference, which have only recently been received, are now under consideration by my Department and the other Government Departments concerned.

asked the Postmaster-General the number of villages in Wales which are still without any telephone system at all; and what is the cheapest rate he is now quoting for the installation of an exchange of any sort in villages?

The number of villages in Wales with sub-post offices but without telephone facilities is about 140, or about 13 per cent. of the total. No charge is made for installing an exchange in a village if a sufficient number of subscribers is forthcoming. The minimum rent payable by a subscriber for an exclusive line is £7 a year for a business installation and £5 10s. a year for a residential one. Call offices are opened in rural districts at the cost of the Post Office where they are likely to remunerative; otherwise a guarantee is required, the amount depending on the cost and revenue in the particular case concerned.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is no privacy at all in the call-boxes in rural areas?

If the hon. Gentleman will give me any particular case that he has in mind I will gladly go into it.

What is the minimum number of subscribers for the installation of an exchange in a village?

Eight.

How does this percentage compare with that of England and Scotland?

I will look into that, if it is not too dangerous a subject for me to follow. During the last two years we have added 80 call offices in Wales in this particular respect.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the frequent confusion experienced by subscribers between the Hop and Park Ex-changes, he will alter the name of one of these exchanges as soon as conveniently possible?

Service observations do not disclose that the confusion between these names is sufficiently serious to justify the alteration suggested. My hon. Friend will also appreciate that such difficulty as there is will steadily diminish with the progress of conversion to automatic working, as more and more calls for these exchanges are dialled. I am advised that there would be considerable objection from many subscribers if these long-standing exchange names were now altered.

Can my right hon. Friend give any indication whether either or both of these exchanges is likely to go on to the automatic working soon?

It will be a matter of some little time, in accordance with the policy already indicated.

asked the First Commissioner of Works whether, in connection with the repairs to the Clock Tower, it is proposed to overhaul Big Ben and the Westminster chimes; whether this will involve silencing the bells and, if so, for how long and from what date; who will carry out the repairs if required; and what is the estimated cost?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. It has been found necessary to overhaul and clean the great clock and to re-hang some of the chiming bells. All the bells will be silenced for a period of approximately two months from the 30th April next. The repairs to the clock will be carried out by Messrs. E. Dent and Company, of Cockspur Street, the manufacturers of the clock, under their current contract, but the bell mechanism will be overhauled by the same firm at a cost of £260, under a separate and special contract.

asked the First Commissioner of Works whether, in the interests of cleanliness and health he will arrange for the removal of the cobwebs from the walls of Westminster Hall?

The walls in question will be cleaned in 1935, when it is proposed to erect scaffolding for the purpose of examining the roof timbers. I may say that the spiders live in the roof.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the foreign matter to which I have referred is not in the roof at all, but clinging to the walls, and can be easily removed with the use of a ladder? Is there any reason why such a historic building should be in such a dirty condition?

Will my right hon. Friend consider at the same time the question of spring-cleaning the Crypt with some material destructive of paint?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is considering the desirability of recommending to local authorities engaged in slum clearance work in industrial districts the temporary use of public parks and open spaces for providing decanting accommodation?

The circumstances of different towns vary greatly, but my right hon. Friend would give sympathetic consideration to any practicable proposals submitted by local authorities for the temporary use for decanting of parks and open spaces in their ownership.

Bearing in mind that summer is approaching, does the Minister not think that this would be the best time to do anything of that nature; and is it not desirable to start at once, instead of wasting another year?

I entirely concur in that general statement.

Is the word "decanting" an official term used by the Ministry in connection with this work?

It does not occur in an Act of Parliament, but it is a rough and ready way of describing something which everyone understands.

Would the hon. Gentleman consider getting some other word more appropriate for use in reference to human beings.

asked the Minister of Health if he can indicate the nature of the evidence on which the conclusion is based that the supply of houses to be let at 10s. a week is adequate to the demand?

The evidence to which my hon. Friend refers was given in answer to a question by the hon. Member for East Islington (Miss Cazalet) on 8th February last, and is briefly that, at the present time, local authorities are still engaged in completing subsidised houses while private enterprise is building small houses to let in increasing numbers.

Does the figure of 10s. refer to the rental inclusive of rates, or exclusive of rates?

Inclusive.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that sufficient small-rented houses are being built in the big urban districts?

I am never satisfied with anything, but I believe that, as a result of our policy, a greater number of such houses will be built in the next few years than ever before.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether His Majesty's Government's policy of restricting immigration into Palestine includes measures to control and restrict Arab immigration from Transjordania; and whether any increase in Arab immigration is accepted as a reason for restricting Jewish immigration?

I have been asked to reply. While persons habitually resident in Transjordan may enter Palestine direct although not in possession of passports, their settlement or employment in Palestine is subject to their qualifying for

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons in receipt of unemployment benefit and transitional payments, respectively, at Maesteg, Ogmore Vale, Pontycymmer, Aberkenfig and Bridgend Employment Exchanges for the last four years, separately, to date?

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the hon. Gentleman read out the averages for each of these places?

There are eight columns of these figures.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what is the number of naval personnel and reserves in the United States of America, France, Italy, and Japan at the latest available date?

With my hon. and gallant Friend's permission, I will circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the number of officers and men of the United States of America coastguard service are included in the return of the personnel and reserves of the United States of America; and what the present numbers are?

Officers and men of coastguard service are not included in the numbers given for the naval establishment.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether Private Stanley Madin, recently of the Northants Regiment, was advised in September, 1933, prior to his appointment as an officer's servant, that his new duties were voluntary and not subject to military discipline; whether such appointment entitles an officer's wife to issue instructions to such servants; and whether he will, in the public interest, institute an inquiry into this case?

I have now received a full report on this case. The late Private Madin volunteered to undertake the duties of officer's servant. He was warned that if he was unable to perform his duties satisfactorily he would be returned to ordinary duty, but that he would not be punished for inability to perform domestic duties. A soldier servant does not come under the orders of an officer's wife. I see no reason for taking action as suggested in the last part of the question.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that soldiers, if they refuse to accept jobs as batmen to officers, do not fear the consequences?

I am quite satisfied of that, and, as a general rule, soldiers are very anxious for these jobs.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a big volume of public opinion to the effect that while batmen may legitimately be used as an indulgence to officers, they should not be used as domestic servants to officers' wives?

Is it not the case that there is a tremendous demand for these jobs because of the extra pay?

That is the case and if an officer's wife occasionally asks her husband's servant to do something for her, he will naturally perform such duties. No complaints of difficulty have ever arisen.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these are instances where officers' wives have reported the behaviour of men, who have joined the Army for a military career and not for the purpose of entering domestic service; and that when men have become batmen, if they have not responded to the wishes of officers' wives, they have been reported to the officers and the officers have then threatened to report them to the guardroom and to give them such fatigues as sanitary fatigues?

I have not heard of any such cases, and that certainly did not occur in the case under consideration.

Cannot an officer's servant ask to be returned to ordinary duty any time he likes; and is not such a request always complied with?

In view of the incomplete and unsatisfactory answers which I have received, I give notice that I will raise this question on the Motion for the Adjournment.

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether Service pensions and retired pay which have been awarded to former members of the Regular Army are regarded as payments for past services; whether such pensions or retired pay or any portion thereof are taken into consideration in fixing rates of remuneration in the event of any recipient being subsequently employed by the Department; and, if so, can he state the reason for this policy and also indicate the basis of computation which is adopted in fixing the rate of remuneration in relation to the amount of Service pension or retired pay?

The retired pay of commissioned officers involves a liability to recall for service in an emergency, up to certain age limits, but the Service pensions of other ranks are regarded solely as payment for past services. Retired pay and Service pensions are not taken into consideration in fixing the remuneration of persons subsequently employed by the War Office in posts not reserved for ex-members of the Forces. In the case of classes of employment which are reserved solely for such persons, the scales of remuneration are suitable for individuals in receipt of retired pay or pensions, and have been fixed at an economic level having regard to the cost of alternative methods of carrying out the particular work.

Do I understand that retired pay or pension for past services in the case of men who may take on employment is included in regard to their economic circumstances, or do I understand that pension and retired pay are part of an accumulated reserve, that when men join the Army they join at a lower rate of pay than they would ordinarily receive in industry, and that the amount they should have received has accumulated to a certain provision to give them a pension at the end?

If the hon. Member will read my answer, which is rather difficult to understand, he will see that such retired pay is never taken into consideration except in the case of officers who are re-employed in the War Office on jobs that are reserved entirely for officers. In those cases, their pay is taken into consideration; otherwise, the work in question is given to people very likely outside the Army altogether.

asked the Prime Minister when he will be able to give a day for the discussion of the question of the reform of the League of Nations?

I can only refer my right hon. Friend to the answer which I gave to him on the 29th January last in reply to a similar question.

May we take if for granted that it is no longer against the public interest that this question should be discussed in the House?

That may be so, but it is quite evident that the time for a proper discussion has not come.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is very urgent that the League of Nations should endeavour to bring in every great Power?

asked the Prime Minister if he is prepared to give facilities for the Representation of the People (Redistribution of Seats) Bill?

I fear that I can hold out no hope of special facilities being given for this Bill.

Are His Majesty's Government considering dealing with this question next Session?

Is it not a fact that this question is being considered by another body in another way?

asked the Prime Minister whether he has any information to give the House as to the steps taken to fulfil the undertaking given in 1927 that the range of buildings at Greenwich which includes the Queen's House will be devoted to the purposes of a National Maritime Museum?

Yes, Sir. The matter has been under consideration since the buildings in question were vacated by the Greenwich Hospital School, and His Majesty's Government have recently received a generous offer from Sir James Caird of his magnificent collections, with a promise, in addition, to defray the cost, estimated at £29,000 of putting the buildings in order for their reception. The Government have expressed their warm appreciation of this offer, and they propose to introduce into Parliament at an early date a Bill for the establishment of a National Maritime Museum. The contents of the Naval Museum at Greenwich will be transferred, as will the handsome gifts already made by Sir James Caird and others, in anticipation of the establishment of the museum.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can publish a return showing what percentage of the electors voted in each town at the municipal elections on 1st November, 1933, and at each county council election held during the present month?

I regret that I cannot comply with the hon. Member's request, as the particulars would have to be obtained by special inquiry from nearly 450 local authorities, and this would involve considerable expenditure.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the default by the German authorities upon obligations to which British investors have subscribed activates a principle preventive of the future placing in Britain of any loans by German and other foreign public authorities; and will he notify the German authorities prior to the reconsideration of the German transfer moratorium that it is desirable that there should be an agreement with their British creditors?

My right hon. Friend fully realises the serious effect which might result from action of the kind mentioned in the question, and the German Government is already aware that His Majesty's Government regard it as an essential principle that, if any temporary sacrifice is to be asked of the creditors in present circumstances, it should be discussed with the creditors with a view to reaching an agreed arrangement.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that is exactly what the German Government have not done, and that they have forced a unilateral default on their British creditors without agreement by those creditors?

My answer deals with that point.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if he has any information as to the number of persons from whom pensions under the Blind Persons Act have been withdrawn, as a result of re-examination, during 1933 and 1934?

I regret that the information asked for by the hon. Member is not available.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is prepared to advise the Public Works Loans Board that, in view of the low interest charges obtaining on war stock and bank deposits, they should further reduce the interest charges upon public borrowings?

As the hon. Member is aware, the rates applicable to new advances from the Local Loans Fund were reduced as from the 13th March. It is not possible to reduce the rates applicable to existing advances without endangering the solvency of the fund.

Is the hon. Member aware that that was so infinitesimal that it cannot be hoped to give very much relief to local authorities?

It may have been small, but at any rate it was something, and the rate at which we lend depends on the rate at which we can borrow.

asked the Minister of Transport whether the contract entered into with the Associated Equipment Company by the London Passenger Transport Board is for the supply of the same or a larger number of vehicles, etc., than that covered by the pro forma contract alluded to in Section 6 of the London Passenger Transport Act, 1933; and whether that supply is confined to the requirements for the service formerly given by the London General Omnibus Company?

I am informed by the board that the number of omnibuses specified in the contract entered into between the board and the company does not exceed the number covered by the pro forma contract to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers, and that the particular omnibuses, which are subject to the contract, are generally those employed on services formerly operated by the London General Omnibus Company and the other three companies specified in the first Schedule to the pro forma contract.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps have been taken to ensure that the extra-territorial rights under the treaties between China and Great Britain, which guarantee the liberties of life and the security of property for British citizens in Chinese territory, still hold good in Manchuria in spite of the Japanese military occupation; and what is the position of a British subject in Manchuria at the present time?

No special steps have been found necessary to secure the treaty position of British subjects in Manchuria, which remains unaltered.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in the interval since the Committee on the Unemployment Bill last sat, the Government have considered afresh any of the provisions of the Bill which have given special concern to this House and to the country, and upon which representations have been made privately by Members of this House; and, if so, whether before the Committee stage is resumed he can indicate any substantial modifications the Government intend to propose?

As has been repeatedly announced, the Government have been giving the closest consideration to the Unemployment Bill in the light of the Debates that have already taken place. There would, however, be no advantage in anticipating the further discussions on the Bill.

Is the Prime Minister really aware of the serious feeling there is in the country on very substantial points that have been raised, and that if no announcement is made to-day, we shall have to wait at least another fortnight before any statement is made by the Government; and, in view of the time that has already elapsed, cannot some statement be made now?

The Government are very well aware that a great deal of misrepresentation is about regarding both the provisions of the Bill and the intentions of the Government, but this House ought to know perfectly well how the situation is. I am certain that we ought to continue our work during the Committee stage, and then the Government will make their announcement regarding the further progress of the Bill.

I am not dealing with misrepresentations, unless they are misrepresentations by the majority of Members of this House. I am dealing with questions that are alarming the country, on which the Government have had about three weeks to consider their attitude. The House will not consider the Bill again for a fortnight, and surely the public are entitled to know before the House meets again whether there will be any alteration in the programme of the Government. Seeing that under the time-table we cannot move the Closure, will the Minister of Labour move the Closure, or move to report Progress, so that this matter can be further discussed?

The Prime Minister has said that the Government have taken into consideration the Debates that have taken place; will they also consider that on the two most important provisions of the Bill no Debates have taken place, on account of the Guillotine? Will the Government now say whether they propose to recommit the Bill in respect of those two Clauses?

I have answered that question at least half-a-dozen times, and I have nothing to add.

Will not the Prime Minister consider that there is in this House, apart from the Opposition, a huge body of opinion that is interested in these matters; and, apart from things misrepresented, does he not think it will be treating the House with something like fairness, if the Government have come to a decision on vital points as a result of their discussion, to tell us now what it is, as I am sure we should be told if the Opposition numbers were of somewhat greater importance?

The last statement made by my hon. Friend is erroneous. We have a way of doing business in this House, and that way will be pursued. It is a very reasonable and proper way. I can assure my hon. Friend, as I have already done, that the opinion of all sections of the House is being considered by the Government in making up their minds as to what is to happen after the Committee stage is concluded.

In order to help the Government to make up their minds, will the Prime Minister advise the Minister of Labour to move to report Progress to enable a discussion to take place on the further stages of the Bill?

indicated dissent.

Does the Prime Minister think it good business on an important Bill to throw it aside for several weeks, then suddenly to take it up for one day, to throw it aside again for an indefinite period, and then to take it up once more? Would it not be much better for the Government, if they intend to proceed with the Bill, to make a definite announcement to-day of their intentions in regard to its future progress? The present method is misleading the country, and it would be much better if the proceedings to-day were delayed until after the Budget so that the financial parts of the Bill could be reconsidered.

The Government are anxious to proceed with the Bill. The House well knows that at this period of the year it is necessary to complete a certain amount of financial business before the end of the financial year, whatever other business is before the House; and we have taken the first opportunity of proceeding with this Bill again.

I understand that the hon. Member for Central Wandsworth (Sir H. Jackson) does not wish to move the first and second of these Amendments. It will be for the convenience of the Committee if we discuss the entire scheme under this Clause on the third Amendment.

:I beg to move, in page 45, line 29, to leave out from "to" to the end of line 31, and to insert:

"the following and any other necessary modifications."

I am grateful to you, Captain Bourne, for allowing a general discussion on this Amendment. Under Clause 50 rules may be made by the Treasury, after consultation with the Minister of Health, with respect to the superannuation rights of persons who are officers of local authorities with pensionable service and who will by this Bill be transferred to the new board. As I understand Clause 50 such rules may provide (a) for the application of the Civil Service Superannuation Acts, and (b) on retirement from the Civil Service for payment of superannuation allowance by the local authority whose service the officer left in order to enter the service of the board. It is understood that the intention of the Government is that the rules shall prescribe that the superannuation allowance to be paid by the local authority shall be based on the number of years service with that local authority and upon the salary or average salary which the officer was receiving from the authority at the moment of his transfer.

The effect of the Clause as it stands would be that such a person, instead of being superannuated on the basis of the salary received by him at the time of his retirement from the proposed board and on the aggregate of his years of service, would be superannuated by the local authority as regards his local government service, on the length of that service and on the basis of his salary at that time, and by the board as regards his service with the board, regard being had to the salary or average salary received by him at retirement. Perhaps I could illustrate it better by a concrete example. Let us assume that an officer had 10 years' service with a local authority before his transference to the board, and that he was receiving £300 a year when he left that service; let us assume that he joined the board and had 20 years' service with it, and on retiring was receiving £600 a year. What sort of superannuation will he receive if Clause 50 is carried? He will receive 10/60ths of his £300 from the local authority, that is to say, £50. and 20/60ths of £600, that is £200, which is the equivalent of 20/80ths plus a lump sum under the Civil Service scheme from the State. In a word, he would receive £250 a year after his complete service first with the local authority and then with the State. If he had continued in the service of the local authority throughout the whole of his period of service, he would have received 30/60ths of £600, or a superannuation of £300, whereas he will in fact receive only £250. He will, therefore, be penalised to the extent of £50 a year because of his transference.

It may be objected by the spokesman for the Government that the new board will have no fund into which such transfer values could be paid. I suggest that the spirit of equity which has always decreed that an officer of a local authority who has been transferred to another authority should suffer no disservice in consequence of the transfer should operate in this case. In order to provide for a transfer value in the case of Poor Law officers who were transferred under the Local Government Act of 1929 but remained under the Poor Law Officers Superannuation Act, 1896, it is proposed that an officer transferred to the board shall either come under the Local Government and Other Officers Superannuation Act, 1922, or under the local Acts scheme, if the local authority possess a superannuation scheme; and if the local authority have no superannuation scheme, then it is suggested that the officer himself should pay his transfer value to the board.

I am speaking this afternoon on behalf of the National Association of Local Government Officers, a very important body. I am advised that this proposal for payment of a transfer value receives the support of the Association of Municipal Corporations, and judging by the fact that there is a proposal very much like mine standing in the name of my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Tiverton (Lieut.-Colonel Acland Troyte) I am entitled to assume that it also receives the support of the County Councils Association. There is thus a joint acceptance by two great authorities, the Association of Municipal Corporations and the County Councils Association, and the great body for which I am speaking, the National Association of Local Government Officers. In view of that weight of opinion I hope the Financial Secretary to the Treasury will give sympathetic consideration to this Amendment.

I wish to support the Amendment moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Central Wandsworth (Sir H. Jackson). The point is really a very simple one, although the law relating to superannuation and the pensions of civil servants is very complicated. We wish the word "shall" to be substituted for the word "may," in that way requiring that rules shall be made providing for the pensioning of officers transferred to the board.

That has not been moved.

If it is understood that that is the intention of the Government, of course there is no necessity for that minor Amendment. I thought all Amendments were to be dealt with together.

On a point of Order. I understood you to intimate from the Chair, Captain Bourne, that the Government had concurred in the view that there should be a general discussion based on this particular Amendment, in order that we could review the general position of officers under this Bill. Is not that so?

I told the Committee that I understood the hon. Member for Central Wandsworth (Sir H. Jackson) did not desire to move his first Amendment—

"page 45, line 20, to leave out 'may,' and insert 'shall.'"—

which, incidentally, had nothing to do with his scheme. What I suggested was that as the hon. Member's scheme is a somewhat elaborate one, and is covered by various Amendments on the next four pages of the Order Paper, it would be convenient if we discussed that scheme as a whole on this Amendment, and that the scheme should stand or fall as the result of the division, if any, on this Amendment.

No one would wish that as a result of the alterations which are now being made, the men now employed in local government who are to be transferred to the service of the State should be in any worse position in regard to their superannuation. The instance given by the hon. Member for Central Wandsworth makes it clear that those men would be worse off under the conditions laid down in the Bill. In the illustration which he gave a man had been serving a local authority for 10 years and at the end of that period was earning £300 a year. He then passed into the service of the board and works under the board for 20 years. At the end of that time he will have put in 30 years' service. How is that man's pension to be reckoned in accordance with the terms of the Bill? In respect of his 10 years' service with the local authority he would receive as pension ten-sixtieths of the of the £300 salary which he was earning at the end of the 10 years, that is, £50 a year. In respect of his 20 years' service with the board he would be given twenty-sixtieths of his salary at the end of the 20 years, and, presuming that salary to be £600, he would receive £200. Adding the £50 to that, he would receive as pension £250. That is under the terms of the Bill, together which the rules, which are in draft.

That is £5 a week. Better than 15s. 3d.