asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs with regard to the law enacted by the Turkish Government which prohibits Foreign subjects from exercising their trades and professions in Turkey, whether His Majesty's Government has instituted any negotiations with the Turkish Government with a view to alleviating the position of British subjects affected or whether, in the event of such negotiations not having taken place or having taken place and failed, His Majesty's Government will take steps to repatriate such British subjects as have been reduced to destitution through the working of the law?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to a question put on this subject on the 30th January by the hon. Member for Normanton (Mr. T. Smith). Representations on this subject were made to the Turkish Government on behalf of His Majesty's Government when the law of June, 1932, was passed; and as a result the complete application of the law was subsequently postponed until June, 1934. Most of the British subjects concerned are not recent arrivals in Turkey but derive their nationality from descent through one or more generations from an ancestor who went there from Malta or from some other British territory. The question of their repatriation is therefore a difficult one. It is, however, under close examination, and in the meantime, as I stated on the 30th January, His Majesty's Consular Officers in Turkey have been authorised to grant monetary relief in necessitous cases.

When the matter is under examination, will the right hon. Gentleman inform the House if there is something to communicate?

If the position improves, I shall be very glad to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether in view of the coming diplomatic visits to Germany and Russia, he can give an assurance that Parliament will not be committed without its prior knowledge to any possible modification of the Versailles Treaty?

The visits to these capitals are purely exploratory.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, before he goes, he intends to have a consultation with France and Italy?

I do not think that that arises out of this question.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the subject of Russian debts to this country, both national and private, will be discussed during the visit of the Lord Privy Seal to Moscow?

I do not at present anticipate this. The visit to Moscow is in response to an invitation from the Soviet Government and conversations will be mainly concerned with questions arising out of the present political situation in Europe.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in connection with the activities of the League of Nations, any countries, members of the League, have at any time expressed their readiness to adopt economic sanctions against any country which has incurred the criticism of the League irrespective of any action which might be taken by other nations?

As far as I am aware no Member of the League of Nations has ever expressed such readiness. As my hon. Friend will be aware, the essential idea underlying the relevant Article of the Covenant of the League is co-operation between all the members of the League. The importance of this has been emphasised on various occasions when the subject has been under consideration by the League.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that a number of women in Bermuda have for several successive years resorted to the method of tax resistance as a protest against their exclusion from the franchise and from eligibility for the legislature; and whether steps will be taken to secure the revision in this and other respects of the constitution oil the Colony, in view of the facts that the present constitution has undergone very little alteration for three centuries and that the electorate is less than six: per cent. of the population?

I have no information to the effect that women in Bermuda have resorted to tax resistance as a method of furthering their claim to the franchise. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by Dr. Drummond Shiels on the 27th of January, 1931, to which I cannot usefully add anything.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman consider whether, as many years have elapsed since then, some steps cannot be taken to bring the influence of the Colonial Office upon the Government of the Colony, which has a constitution completely out of accord with the wishes of the inhabitants?

I think that on the constitutional and on all other aspects of this question, the considered judgment of the Labour Government was a very wise one.

Why does the right hon. Gentleman always take cover behind the decisions of the Labour Government?

I always seek to support every continuity of policy when it is right.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, with the object of ensuring colonial development, he will consider setting on foot further research in the direction of ascertaining whether some of the tropical products we now import from other countries can profitably be produced in our Empire?

The production within the Colonial Empire of commodities at present imported from foreign countries is a question that is engaging continuous attention both here and in the Colonies themselves, and much help is constantly given by men with special knowledge of particular trades. This has resulted both in improvements in production and marketing of established products and the development of new ones. Any specific suggestions for further action in that direction are always welcome, but I see no necessity, as at present advised, for the introduction of further special machinery for the the purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he can make a statement as to the proposed service of a British shipping line for the island of Cyprus?

The position in regard to steamship communication with Cyprus is discussed in paragraphs 354–356 of the report of the Financial Commissioner, a copy of which is available in the Library of the House. From inquiries which have already been made, it appears that there is no immediate likelihood of British lines being able to offer a satisfactory alternative to the existing subsidised services, which are mainly fast passenger and mail services. The position is, however, being kept under review. The Financial Commissioner advised that no new subsidy primarily for cargo would be justified, and I see no reason to dissent from his conclusion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is now in a position to state the terms of reference of the commission appointed by the Governor of Hong Kong to inquire into certain aspects of the mui-tsai question?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave on the 13th February to the hon. Member for Rothwell (Mr. Lunn).

Will it be possible to inquire into the system of inspection and registration that is carried on in Hong Kong, and will the commission have power to increase the number of the inspectors if it is not sufficient?

The commission have general instructions to inquire into a number of specific points that were being submitted in various memoranda, and so on, and generally into the whole question. The commission would have power to recommend an increase in the inspectorate if they thought it was right' to do so.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air the number of experimental aeroplanes which have been designed, built, and tested for the Royal Air Force in the years 1924 to 1934, inclusive, and the number which have been the pattern of the subsequent equipment of the Royal Air Force?

The precise particulars for which the hon. Member asks are not readily available, but the number of new types of service aircraft tested at Royal Air Force Experimental Establishments during the years mentioned may be taken as about 160. Approximately one-third were adopted for service use.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for his answer, may I ask whether it is not a fact that only by nationalising the air industry land getting rid of uneconomic methods—

That does not arise out of the question.

asked the First Commissioner of Works whether he will consider the provision of pedal-cycle stands for use of cycles belonging to Members of Parliament in New Palace Yard?

If there is sufficient demand for this, I will arrange for a few cycle stands to be fixed in the covered recess beside the Members' private entrance.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for his reply, may I ask if he does not seriously contemplate an increase in the number of Members of Parliament using pedal cycles in view of the fact that only this week the pedal cycle has regained its supremacy as being one of the swiftest means of transport?

asked the First Commissioner of Works whether he is aware that the accommodation provided for His Majesty's inspector of taxes and staff at Station Chambers, Victoria Road, Rom-ford, is inadequate and that there is serious overcrowding; and whether it is proposed to obtain alternative accommodation?

asked the First Commissioner of Works whether he is aware that the accommodation provided for His Majesty's inspector of taxes and staff at Station Chambers, Victoria Road, Romford, is inadequate and that there is serious overcrowding; and whether it is proposed to obtain alternative accommodation?

I would refer the hon. Members to the answer which I gave to a similar question yesterday by the hon. Member for the Upton Division of West Ham (Mr. Gardner).

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has any information as to the intention of Italy to prohibit the importation of British boots and shoes; and what steps, if any, he proposes to take to try and prevent this taking place?

Under the Italian Decree of 16th February, imports of boots and shoes were to be restricted, up to 31st March, to 25 per cent. of the imports from the United Kingdom in the corresponding period of last year. This percentage is now raised, however, to 80 per cent. under the provisional agreement which has already been announced.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he can make any statement as to the temporary agreement with the Italian Government with regard to trade with Italy, and especially if the figure of 80 per cent. of the 1934 imports permitted by the Italian Government refers to the total British imports into Italy or to each individual item?

I would refer to the statement which my right hon. Friend made yesterday in reply to questions on this subject. The effect of the provisional agreement is that an Italian importer may import 80 per cent. of the amount of any individual commodity which he imported from the United Kingdom in the corresponding period of 1934.

Does my hon. and gallant Friend realise that a 20 per cent. restriction on pilchards is a serious matter for the pilchard industry of Cornwall?

I have indicated that the agreement is a provisional one and that further negotiations are to be undertaken.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that Italy is almost the only market for British pilchards; whether he has borne this in mind in his recent negotiations with the Italian Government: and whether he will do so when a more lasting agreement comes to be discussed?

The answer to each part of the question is in the affirmative.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the numbers of the salaried staffs of the Pig, Bacon, Milk, and Potato Marketing Boards, with the total salaries paid in each case?

I regret that I have not the information desired by the hon. Member.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some of these boards are administering public funds and carrying out the policy of the Government? That being so, is it not within the purview of the Minister of Agriculture and of this House to know these facts?

No, Sir. Certainly not.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take the trouble to find out these figures?

No, Sir. It is quite wrong for me to communicate with these boards and ask for details of the salaries of their staffs.

Is it not the case that these boards derive their funds as a result of Statutes passed by this House, and, in those circumstances, is it not proper for the right hon. Gentleman to ask for these particulars?

The hon. Member is under an entire misapprehension. These boards operate under Statutes passed by this House, but if a return is to be called for of every company operating under Statutes passed by this House, the Table of the House would not be big enough to accommodate them.

Are not these boards administering public funds, and therefore are we not entitled to ask for these particulars?

I do not know of any case in which a board is administering public funds except the Milk Board, where a grant is given, and which is operated by a committee entirely on voluntary lines.

Are not these boards set up as the direct outcome of Government policy, and are we not entitled to know how many people are being employed?

Would it not also be wise to ask how many employés there are in the trade unions which also distribute public funds?

asked the Home Secretary whether he will make it plain that the number of convictions for exceeding the speed limit obtained by a police officer through the methods announced by the commissioner will not be taken into account when considering the promotion of that officer?

Promotion in the police force is by selection and does not depend on the number of convictions an officer may obtain.

May we take it that zealous young constables will not be prosecuting motorists frivolously in the next few weeks thinking that thereby they will obtain promotion?

I have no reason at all for thinking that anything of the kind will take place.

asked the Home Secretary whether he can give the average number of arrests and the average number of convictions per week in the Metropolitan area during recent months on a charge of loitering with intent to commit a felony; whether he is aware of the growing impression that these charges are indicative of police persecution of unemployed persons; and whether he will issue instructions that a charge of this description shall not be made without substantial evidence?

The suggestion that the police are persecuting the unemployed is one that will be rightly resented by every member of the Metropolitan Force. It is the duty of the police to prevent crime and in order to carry out this duty they must arrest persons frequenting public places with intent to commit a felony. It is essential that there should be vigilance in the discharge of this duty if crimes of certain types are to be prevented. There is not the smallest reason to suppose that the police are abusing their powers in this matter and the fact that in a certain number of cases the charge is dismissed or the accused is given the benefit of the doubt, is no indication whatever that the police are acting oppressively. I see no reason for issuing any fresh instructions on the point.

Is it not the case that the number of charges obtained by a plain clothes police officer is taken into consideration when considering awards or increases in salary?

The hon. Member has already had an answer on that subject.

May I ask whether the figures called for in the question can be supplied, and if they are available how many of the persons apprehended for loitering were unemployed?

I do not think that any public service would be served by making these considerable researches. The figures are given in the report for the year and to ask for a special return is not in the public interest.

Is it not the fact that when complaints are made to Scotland Yard about these cases, which are ultimately dismissed, only one side of the case, the police side, is heard, and not the complainant's side?

I am satisfied that that is not the case.

It is the case.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has received a report from his factory inspector in connection with the death of a young man from asbestosis who was employed at Dick's Asbestos Works, Canning Town; and whether the factory inspector was satisfied that proper and adequate dust-suction machinery was installed for the removal of asbestos dust?

Yes, Sir. It would appear from the evidence at the inquest that death was due to asbestosis but that the disease had been contracted some years ago before the present Regulations came into force. During the last 3½ years the deceased seems to have been employed at the works mentioned for about two months only. The inspector reports that the requirements as to provision of mechanical exhaust draught are well observed.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the White Star Line, Limited, has issued a statement to its shareholders that the company must go into liquidation and that its liabilities greatly exceed the value of its assets; and whether, as the liquidation of this company will involve the total loss of the shareholders' capital, he will state why no provision was made for the protection of the interests of the shareholders of this company when the Cunard-White Star merger was effected under agreement with the Treasury concerning advances for the completion of the Cunarder No. 534?

My right hon. Friend is aware of the facts as stated in the first part of the question. With regard to the second part of the question, the hon. Member appears to be under a misapprehension. White Star Line, Limited, was not a party to the merger agreement, which was between the Treasury, the Cunard Steam Ship Company and the owners of the White Star fleet—the Oceanic Steam Navigation Company. Nothing in the agreement was inimical to the interests of the shareholders in White Star Line, Limited.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for that reply, I would ask him whether he thinks it equitable or proper that members of the public who were shareholders in the White Star Line, Limited, and who provided the money to acquire the assets which now form part of the assets of the merger, should lose the whole of their capital under an agreement entered into with the Treasury, while the benefits of those assets pass to persons who were concerned in the Royal Mail Steam Packet fiasco?

The shareholders in the White Star Line were not the owners of the fleet at the time when the agreement was entered into.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the average length of time taken by his department in arriving at a decision as to the advice to be given to the Home Office whether or not to extend the permit of an alien desiring to take employment in this country?

It is not possible to state any average time. In some cases a decision can be given forthwith, while in others a number of inquiries have to be made and these may take a considerable time.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in the case of a firm in Edmonton the delay of the Ministry in coming to a decision was directly responsible for an alien going to another firm, with the result that a number of people could not obtain employment in a factory, though they would have done so had a decision been made more quickly?

I could not accept that explanation. The facts are that the alien in question did not want to go to the firm in the hon. Member's constituency and left no address so that the firm could not trace him.

Is it not a fact that had the delay of his Department not taken place that alien would now be employed by the firm in question and other people would have found employment too?

As a matter of fact, the alien is employed in another part of the country and, as a result of his employment, I understand that 350 British subjects have found work

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to the action of the Dart-ford Borough Council in withdrawing from the joint district council of the electricity supply industry, Greater London, area No. 10; if so, what action he proposes to take in bringing pressure to bear upon the council to honour the scale of salaries laid down by the joint council to the employés?

I understand that the Dartford Borough Council has recently decided to withdraw from the joint district council in question, but that the matter has not yet been considered by the latter body.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any information to show whether the Chinese Government contemplate extending railway communications to Sinkiang in order to counterbalance the economic and political effects of the-Turkestan-Siberian Railway?

I have no information leading me to suppose that railway extensions to Sinkiang are under contemplation.

(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for India whether he has any statement to make on the incident in Karachi where 27 persons-were killed and many others injured?

I regret to-state that trouble arose yesterday morning at Karachi after the execution of Abdul Qaiyum, who was sentenced to death for the murder of a Hindu in the Judicial Commissioner's Court last September. The burial of the body in a selected graveyard some distance from the city was interrupted by a crowd of Mahommedans who swelled to 20,000 or more. Half the crowd attempted to rush the body by surprise into the city and overpowered the police. In these circumstances, and in view of the certainty of a grave communal disturbance if steps were not taken to disperse the crowd, British troops were brought up and ordered to fire as a last resource. A detachment of 25 men fired nearly two rounds each, causing casualties at present reported to be 29 deaths and 87 injured. The firing was strictly controlled, but, owing to the density of the crowd and the shortness of the range, casualties were high. As the result of the firing the crowd retreated and buried the body of Abdul Qaiyum outside the city. According to the latest report in my possession, the situation yesterday evening was quiet but was being carefully watched.

Would my right hon. Friend say why it is that the Government of India, in dispersing these crowds of excited people, do not use lachrymatory gas capsules, such as used in America, instead of firing bullets, which pierce three or four bodies at the same time, and why humanity and common sense cannot lead to reform in the matter of dealing with crowds of this character?

The Government of India have already considered that possibility. So far as I remember, lachrymatory gas has been used in the Punjab. I will look again into the suggestion, but I will say nothing that would lead the House to suppose that I have not full confidence in the troops in dealing with the situation in the best possible manner.

Will my right hon. Friend most carefully discriminate between any suggestion that there is lack of confidence in the troops or in the judgment of the people on the spot, and a decision on a matter of high policy which is required from the Imperial Government?

Certainly.

I have to inform the Committee of what took place at the recent meeting of the small committee of Members, representative of the various groups in the House of Commons. Before doing so, perhaps I ought to mention where we stand now as to the consideration of this Bill. The question immediately before the Committee is "That Clause 52, as amended, stand part of the Bill," and I hope that that may go through possibly without any further talk.

May I ask—

rose—

Perhaps both hon. Members will wait until I have completed my statement. I was merely mentioning that fact as a preliminary, and I did not intend to indicate that I was about to put that Question. The committee to which I have referred understands that it is the desire of certain hon. Members to move to report Progress in order to give an opportunity for the consideration of matters connected with the White Paper issued by the Government on Monday. If that Motion be made, it will be accepted by the Chair, and it is estimated that the discussion on that Motion should occupy between two and three hours but should not exceed three hours. We shall then come to Clauses 54, 55, and 56 on which there are no Amendments except formal Amendments to make those Clauses correspond with Amendments which have already been made. Those Clauses therefore ought only to take a very short time unless possibly there is some discussion on one of them on the question "That the Clause stand part of the Bill." That would bring us to Clauses 56, 57 and 58 which deal with the police. The committee understood that it was the desire of a number of hon. Members to have as wide a discussion as possible on the question of how the police were to be dealt with under the Bill, and it was suggested that a general discussion of that kind should take place on a Motion for the postponement of those three Clauses. I am sorry to say that I should find very great difficulty in allowing sufficient scope for debating that matter on a Motion to postpone the Clauses, but there is now on the Order Paper an Amendment, or, strictly speaking, three Amendments all forming one in the name of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill) and two other hon. Members—in Clause 56, page 35, line 39, to leave out "proposed," and to insert "directed by the Governor-General"; in page 36, line 2, after "military," to insert "the Governor shall carry out such direction and in doing so" and in page 36, line 3, to leave out from "respect," to the end of the Clause, and to add "thereto so far as such direction permits"—which in my opinion will give sufficient scope for a discussion generally of the proposal in the Bill regarding the police. These proposals are contained to some extent in Clauses which have already been passed and also in those Clauses to which we are now coming, and in various places in later Clauses and in the Schedules. The committee considered therefore that it would be for the general convenience that there should be a Debate of considerable scope if that could be arranged and I think this can be done on the Amendments I have mentioned, and when that Debate has taken place it is to be hoped that the Amendments to Clauses 56, 57 and 58 will not take so long as they would have taken otherwise. It is estimated that the discussion on the police might also occupy from two to three hours.

On the assumption, therefore, that we dispose of these two rather longer discussions to-day, it is considered that we ought to get to the end of Clause 98, that is the end of Part IV of the Bill, and thus complete the second compartment of the Bill at our next Sitting. To-morrow was to have been another Committee day on the Bill, but now the Committee stage is to be continued on Friday instead of to-morrow. I think that even the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping will on this occasion not think that I am too sanguine if I express the hope that on Friday we may get to the end of Clause 98. It is, of course, possible that we may get further to-night than I have indicated. That depends on the length of time occupied by those discussions to which I have referred, but with the exception of about three or four original Clauses on which there are a number of Amendments and on which discussion will be required, the great bulk of these Clauses right up to Clause 98 are purely repetition, and I hope that for the most part they will be disposed of with comparatively little discussion.

May I say, Sir Dennis, since you have referred to me, that I think the outline of business which you have given is highly convenient and thoroughly in accord with the general arrangement under which this great Measure is being discussed. We are to have the opportunity of two debates, on large questions, with great latitude, to-day, and then on Friday we are to dispose of everything up to the end of Part IV of the Bill. It will be rapid legislation, but in my opinion not unfair legislation. The Government have given appropriate time, and the various Oppositions have all agreed that progress should be made. By Friday next if we accomplish what we are setting before ourselves, we shall be only two days over the time which was agreed upon in the original plan. Four days, it will be remembered, were held in reserve, and therefore we shall only have used up two of the spare days. I think that fact ought to be registered as an exceedingly satisfactory milestone in the working of this policy up to date.

This Clause deals with the special responsibilities of the Governor—

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman rise to ask a question on my statement?

No, Sir.

I would point out that I have put nothing to the Committee as yet, and that when we reported Progress on the Question, "That Clause 52, as amended, stand part of the Bill," the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Mr. Cocks) was in possession of the Committee

I regret that, in spite of what you have said, Sir Dennis, I must detain the Committee for a few minutes on this Clause which some of us regard as important and perhaps we may get a reply from the Secretary of State on the points which I am raising in connection with it. As I was saying when the Debate was interrupted, we think that the responsibility indicated in paragraph (a)—the prevention of any grave menace to the peace or tranquillity of a Province—should not mean the withdrawal of certain legislation which may be objected to by a certain minority in the Province. We have always held that social abuses can most effectively be dealt with by Indians themselves. As the result of dealing with abuses certain disorders may arise, and we think those disorders ought to be dealt with by the forces of law and order but that it would be putting a premium upon disorder to allow the Governor to exercise the power of ordering the withdrawal of a Bill. We think that two ill-effects will follow from that sort of procedure. The first effect will be to weaken the responsibility of Ministers, and the second will be to concentrate opposition upon the Governor. Both these things are extremely undesirable. With regard to paragraph (c), we agree that members of the public services should be secured in their legal rights, but we feel that "the safeguarding of their legitimate interests" is rather a wide phrase. In the Instruments of Instructions the Governor is instructed to safeguard not only the legal rights of the members of the civil service but to safeguard them against any action which, in his judgment, will be inequitable. We think that that is a power which should not be placed in the hands of one person, but should be referred to the Public Services Commission for discussion and decision. Paragraph (d) refers to the question of discrimination in the sphere of executive action. In the Instruments of Instructions the Governor is required,

"to differ from his Ministers if in his individual judgment their advice would have effects of the kind which it is the purpose of the said Chapter to prevent even though the advice so tendered to him is not in conflict with any specific provision of the said Act."

In other words, the advice may not be in conflict with any law, but, in spite of that, the Governor can take action. That is a wide power to be entrusted to any one person. Only an exceptional individual should be entrusted with a power such as that. It is not a power which I should like to exercise, and it is a matter that should be settled by the courts. In all these cases we feel that the real safeguard should be the personal influence of the Governor in his day-today contact with the ministers. If an exceptional crisis arises he has always the power of veto. He has also the power of dismissing his ministers, of dissolving the Legislature, and of causing measures to be put on the Statute Book even without the approval of the Legislature. We think that, in view of these powers, the other special responsibilities should only be exercised in the case of grave crisis and that they should be more precisely defined in the way I have suggested. I hope that the Government will see fit to meet us on some of these point on the Report stage.

This Clause deals with the special responsibilities of the Governor, and one of the responsibilities referred to him is the safeguarding of the legitimate interests of minorities. I want to know from the right hon. Gentleman how he thinks the legitimate interests of the minority in Sind will be looked after. There we have had the case in the last few years of a Hindu belonging to the minority being prosecuted for writing partial history, as it might be by Hilaire Belloc. He is two years under that charge, and while he is being tried he is seized by Mohammedans. Two men hold him while another sticks him with a knife. Justice is proceeded to be done on the murderer, and immediately a crowd of 20,000 people denounce the execution of the sentence and a riot which might have developed into a massacre at Karachi, is stopped by the action of British troops. It is stopped quite rightly. It is the responsibility of this House that such action is stopped and that we do not get mob violence in Karachi or in Sind. It is perfectly well known to the right hon. Gentleman that passions between Hindu and Mussulman run higher in Sind than in any part of India. How is the Governor to carry out his responsibility to the legitimate interests of the Hindus in that Province? Why is that Province being made? At present Sind is part of Bombay and is governed by the Governor of Bombay under the existing constitution—

That matter has been discussed already and does not arise on this Clause. I must remind the right hon. and gallant Gentleman that we cannot repeat the discussion.

In view of the news from India in. the last few hours it is exceedingly germane to this Clause. I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman how the new Governor of Sind is going to protect the interests of the minority there? We are handing over law and order, which at present is administered from the Centre. What sort of justice do you expect to get in that country under existing circumstances? How do you expect any Governor to manage to maintain law and order on his own? The issue in this Bill is how far we are going to hand over the administration of Provinces like Sind, and of Sind in particular, to people who are absolutely incapable of carrying out the administration of the districts on impartial lines? If the right hon. Gentleman were Governor of Sind and responsible for law and order there, what steps would he take, first, to see that a man is not murdered when he is being tried; second, to see that the murderer is executed; and, finally, to see that the results of that execution do not lead to a pogrom against the minority of Karachi?

I want to thank the Secretary of State for accepting the two Amendments to this Clause on the Order Paper in my name and to express the hope that further investigation which I believe he will now undertake into the position of what used to be called the backward areas will show—

On a point of Order. Is that in order on this Clause?

—that when we reach the appropriate point the Secretary of State will find that some Amendments to the Sixth Schedule are necessary.

I am sure that the Committee was interested in the many arguments used by the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Mr. Cocks) at the conclusion of our last sitting, which he resumed for the benefit of the Committee this afternoon. He wished the special responsibility under paragraph (a) of Clause 52 to be restricted in scope, as I understand him, on the lines of the proposal of the British India delegation to the Joint Select Committee. I can understand the principle of his argument, but I would remind the hon. Member that we had the privilege of discussing these points with members of the British India delegation, and the Committee will have bad the opportunity of reading their declaration which is attached to the volume of Records in the Report of the Joint Select Committee. I am afraid we have been unable to restrict this special responsibility any further. Its terms have been considered for several years, and we consider them the most suitable for giving the Governor in a particular Province the requisite powers to deal with any grave menace to the peace or tranquillity of his Province.

We think that if we further restrict these words we shall take away from the Governor powers which might be necessary to him in certain emergencies. The restrictions suggested by the hon. Member are therefore impossible to accept. The hon. Member's view of the relationship of the minister to the Governor is one which we cannot entirely accept. We believe naturally that the Governor should work with the minister and should use that tactful persuasion to which the hon. Member referred as much as possible. We do not deny that in the Governor's private relations with the minister there will be opportunities for consultation. At the same time we find it necessary, as we have explained before, to include the words for the purposes which I have outlined. With regard to the other special responsibilities, I think the same general remarks that I have just made in reply to the hon. Member apply to them.

We regard it as of first class importance that under paragraph (c) the the Governor should have the power to defend the interests of the services. We had a discussion on the wording of this on the Federal Clauses, and I do not think it would be proper for me to take the time of the Committee in repeating the arguments used on that occasion. In regard to paragraph (d), the words in the Instrument of Instructions are to give the Governor every power to see that in the executive field he has exactly the same power as is given to him administratively under Chapter III of Part V of this Bill. Therefore, we must keep the words in the Instrument of Instructions in order to be quite sure that in the realm of administration no action can be taken which would, in fact, be discriminatory, and so deprive the Governor of his power of intervention in such a case. As to the arguments of the right hon. and gallant Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Colonel Wedgwood), I should not myself like to use any words which would further exacerbate feeling or render the position in Sind more difficult at the present time. Therefore, I do not propose to follow him in arguing from that particular instance to the general, but I would say that in any regrettable emergency of a similar kind to that the Governor would be endowed with exactly the same powers, necessarily corresponding with the powers of to-day, to deal with that emergency.

Would the Hindus in Sind be classed as a minority. Would this Clause protecting minorities protect the Hindus?

Certainly, this Clause would cover a minority, and if the right hon. Gentleman will turn to the Instrument of Instructions he will see that full instructions are given to the Governor to deal with troubles of minorities in a very comprehensive manner. I would refer him to the instruction given to the future Governor of Sind, in whom, together with his officers, his Ministers and his services, we shall have exactly the same confidence as we have in the present administration in Sind.

Is it not a fact that the services in Sind will be strictly Mohammedan, that the Government will be a Mohammedan Government, and that law and order will be under Mohammedan administrators, and will the protection of the minority begin in the courts of justice and not begin when a riot has been started?

I wish to put one point with regard to the powers of the Governor, who is not able to declare martial law in a Province, because that is done by the Governor-General under proclamation. Under this Clause is the position of the Governor altered, or does it stand as it is to-day?