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Written Answers

Volume 349: debated on Wednesday 5 July 1939

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Written Answers

Phoenix Group Of Islands

asked the Prime Minister whether the proposals submitted to the United States Government for the purpose of ending the controversy relative to the British rights of the Phoenix Group of islands in the Southern Pacific have now been satisfactorily settled; if so, will he give particulars, and whether an administrative officer has been appointed to these islands?

Particulars of the settlement arrived at for ending the controversy between the United States Government and His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom concerning the status of Canton and Enderbury Islands in the Phoenix Group are contained in the Anglo-United States Exchange of Notes of the 6th April, 1939, the text of which will be found in the White Paper Command 5989. A British official is in residence on Canton Island.

Minimum Wage-Level

asked the Prime Minister whether he is prepared to move for the appointment of a Select Committee for the purpose of determining a minimium wage-level for all adult labourers employed in the United Kingdom, based upon a reasonable standard of life?

No, Sir. Having regard to the great variety of factors to be taken into account I do not think this is a practicable method of procedure.

International Situation

asked the Prime Minister whether he intends at an early appropriate occasion to announce the desire of His Majesty's Government for an international conference to deal with urgent political and economic problems; whether, in view of sustained international tension, he will take the initiative in proposing such a conference; and whether he will take further steps to impress this need of a conference on the German Government and people?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. and learned Member for Kingswinford (Mr. A. Henderson) on 12th June, to which I have nothing to add.

asked the Prime Minister whether the British Government were consulted with regard to, and have fully associated themselves with, the representations made on Saturday by the French Government to Germany with regard to Danzig?

His Majesty's Government were not previously consulted in this particular matter, though they have been kept fully informed by the French Government. The attitude of His Majesty's Government has been made clear in recent statements and there is no divergence of view between the two Governments.

Workmen's Compensation

asked the Prime Minister whether he has considered the resolution, a copy of which has been submitted to him, of the National Union of Distributive and Allied Workers, at Greenock, relative to injustice under the existing workmen's compensation legislation; and whether he has any statement to make on the subject?

I have been asked to reply. I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to a similar question by the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Mathers) on the 22nd June.

Trade And Commerce

Scrap Iron Exports

asked the President of the Board of Trade to what extent he proposes to use his powers to buy up scrap iron in this country and prevent export of this material?

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the powers conferred upon the Minister of Supply under the Ministry of Supply Bill now before Parliament to buy or otherwise acquire articles required for the public service. It is not possible at this stage to indicate in what circumstances those powers would be used. As regards scrap iron, an agreement is already in existence between the British Iron and Steel Federation and the Scrap Merchants' Federation, under which all ferrous scrap arising in the United Kingdom dealt with by scrap merchants who are members of this federation is offered to the Iron and Steel Federation at an agreed price and is only exported when not required in this country. Exports of scrap iron are now quite small.

Commercial Propaganda (Herring Industry)

asked the Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department whether the National Council for British Commercial Propaganda Overseas will include within its interests the herring export trade of Scotland?

The organisation referred to by the hon. Member is a private concern and I am not in a position to supply the information asked for.

Japanese Merchandise Imports

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is satisfied that Japanese manufactures imported into this country are not being transmitted through other countries so as to disguise the origin; and whether, in any case, he will make inquiries?

I am not aware of any such action as is referred to by my hon. Friend, but if he will furnish me with particulars of any concrete case he has in mind I will have inquiry made.

Steamship "Baronesa" (Explosion)

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he can give any information about the accident which occurred on the steamship "Baronesa," while in dock, as a result of which four men were killed?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which was given to the hon. Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool (Mr. Logan) yesterday.

Justices Of The Peace (West Riding)

asked the Attorney-General whether he is aware that men and women, when sworn in as justices of the peace at the West Riding quarter sessions, have to pay a fee of £2 2s.; on what authority, statutory or otherwise, such a fee is imposed and where the money goes to; and is he aware that such a fee is not demanded in other counties and boroughs in the country?

I have been asked to reply. The fees in question are prescribed by quarter sessions under the powers given them by Section 30 of the Summary Jurisdiction Act, 1848, and are paid into the county fund. It used to be a common practice to charge such fees, but they have now been generally abandoned, and my right hon. Friend is in entire sympathy with the view that justices of the peace should not be charged fees on accepting office. He has been in communication with the Clerk of the Peace for the West Riding, who informs him that the question of forgoing these fees will be considered by quarter sessions at an early date.

Solicitors (Convictions For Fraud)

asked the Attorney-General how many solicitors have been convicted during the past 10 years for misappropriating clients' money and the approximate total amount of the sums involved?

During the years 1929 to 1938 inclusive, 83 solicitors were convicted in the Criminal Courts in respect of misappropriation of clients' moneys. There are no records which would enable an approximate total amount of the sums involved to be given. An effort made by the Law Society to arrive at a total amount involved in defalcations over a period of five years, 1933 to 1937, gives a figure of £574,544.

Licensed Premises (Plays)

asked the Home Secretary whether the police authorities in London have taken any action in respect of the increased performance of plays in premises licensed and ordinarily used for the sale of liquor; and whether, as this constitutes an infringement of several statutes or rules made thereunder, namely, Section 2 (1) of the Music and Dancing Licences (Middlesex) Act, 1894, Section 51 of the Public Health Acts (Amendment) Act, 1890, rules made by the London County Council concerning entertainment licences, Section 12 of the Metropolis Management Act, 1878, and Section 55 (2) of the London County Council (General Powers) Act, 1935, he will draw the attention of the police and of the licensing justices to any or all of these provisions?

My right hon. Friend is not aware of any increased performance of plays in premises ordinarily used for the sale of intoxicating liquor. The provisions of the Acts quoted do not refer directly to stage plays, but the attention of the police is already drawn to those provisions, and any breach of them which comes to the notice of the police is reported to the local authority which enforces the statute or rules infringed. No action on the part of my right hon. Friend appears to be necessary.

Women Police

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider making obligatory the present permissive clauses relating to the appointment of women police; and whether he will take steps to see that each police area shall have an adequate quota of attested women?

The question whether police women should be employed in any force has always been a matter for the decision of the police authority, and my right hon. Friend does not contemplate any modification of that principle.

Alien Women (British Husbands)

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider' introducing legislation to require an alien woman marrying a British subject and desiring British nationality to satisfy the same conditions as to residence, oath of allegiance, etc., as are required before an alien man is granted naturalisation?

The considerations referred to in the reply given on the 29th June to questions by the hon. Member for the Bilston Division of Wolverhampton (Mr. Hannah) and the hon. Member for Leyton, West (Mr. Sorensen) apply also to an alteration of the existing law relating to the nationality of alien women marrying British subjects.

Housing (One-Bedroom Houses)

asked the Minister of Health what percentage of rural district councils, urban district councils, and municipal corporations have built one-bedroom dwellings suitable for old people since 1930?

I regret that the information is not readily available, but I will have the necessary particulars extracted and inform my hon. Friend of the result. I should add that the records containing the particulars do not relate to a period earlier than 1936.

asked the Minister of Health how many one-bedroom dwellings have been built by local authorities in England and Wales since 1919?

Between 1924 and the end of last May approval was given to the provision by local authorities of approximately 44,800 dwellings of the type to which my hon. Friend refers. Prior to 1924 no separate record was kept of this type of dwelling.

Old Age Pensioners (Public Assistance)

asked the Minister of Health whether he will state the number of old age pensioners in the city of Birmingham whose pensions have to be supplemented by relief during 1938, and the first three months of 1939?

Information in the exact form desired by my hon. Friend is not available, but on the 1st January, 1939, there were 5,622 old age pensioners in Birmingham who were in receipt of poor relief. During the week ended the 11th March last the number of old age pensioners to whom outdoor relief in money or in kind was granted was 4,458.

London-Paris Air Service

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he is now in a position to make any statement with regard to the delays in the London to Paris Imperial Airways, Limited, services on Friday, 23rd June; whether the same services on Monday 26th June were running to scheduled time; and if he can give particulars as to the occasions on which the Imperial Airways, Limited, services from London to Paris and Paris to London have not been able to maintain scheduled times during the month of June?

On the 23rd June all air services between London and the Continent were seriously dislocated throughout the day on account of prolonged periods of bad visibility. In the case of the joint Imperial Airways—British Airways service between London and Paris, it was necessary to cancel the last two flights from London and the last three from Paris. On the 26th June the service was operated to scheduled times except for a minor delay on one flight.Of 404 flights scheduled for the month of June on this service, seven were cancelled, one was interrupted and in 22 cases delay in departure exceeded 20 minutes. Bad weather caused six of the cancellations and 12 of the irregular departures. The unavoidable employment of the Heracles type aircraft on 20 flights was responsible for irregularity in actual times as compared with the scheduled times.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether the Imperial Airways, Limited, services from London to Paris ran satisfactorily on 15th and 20th June without any delays taking place on either day?

Royal Air Force Contracts

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he proposes to hand over the control of costs of sub-contracts to the Minister of Supply; and the method by which he ensures that sub-contracts are not let by main contractors at excessive prices?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. The supervision of sub-contract prices, and provision for departmental access to sub-contractors' works and records for the purpose of making independent costs estimates, are already secured by instructions issued to main contractors.

Post Office

Christmas Mails (India And Near East)

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will prohibit the carrying of Christmas cards by air-mail during the Christmas rush unless he is completely satisfied that there is sufficient capacity to ensure the prompt delivery of ordinary business letters to Egypt, India, and the Near East?

Christmas cards are eligible for transmission by the printed papers post so long as they are posted in open covers and, apart from the printed matter, do not bear more than five conventional words of greeting and the sender's name and address in manuscript. Such cards like other categories of second-class mail are conveyed by surface transport. Public announcements to this effect were made during the period of Christmas postings last year and will be repeated on future occasions. It is not practicable for the Post Office to discriminate between Christmas cards and other correspondence posted in closed covers for transmission as first class mail, which is despatched by air to the countries served under the Empire Air Mail Scheme.

Staff Transfers

asked the Postmaster-General in what circumstances an invitation issued to Post Office clerical and executive staffs to apply for transfers to the newly formed Ministry of Supply was withheld from the staff of the Post Office Stores Department; and whether he is aware that there is grave discontent amongst the staff on this matter?

The Stores Department has, in addition to its normal work, recently been called upon to undertake supply work for other Departments in connection with Air-Raid Precaution Services and National Service. In the current year it is responsible for the provision of over 3,000,000 uniform garments and articles of equipment for auxiliary fire services, warden services, nursing auxiliaries, land army, etc. In consequence, the Department is under heavy pressure and extensive overtime is being worked. In addition, a number of senior officers have already been released recently for service in other Government Departments, thus improving promotion prospects in the Stores Department. In these circumstances it was decided that the efficiency of the Department might be endangered if further releases were made.I am aware of some disappointment at this decision. Nevertheless, I am confident that the difficulties of the present position are understood.

Scotland

Herring Industry

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that the catch of herring around the Shetland coast this season is only half of what it was at the same period last season, due, as the fishermen believe, to the fact that there has been no aerial spotting of herring shoals as was the case last year; and will be consult the Herring Board and the Air Ministry with a view to instituting aerial spotting of herring without delay?

I am aware that so far the Shetland herring catch is considerably less than in 1938, but I am advised that the same conditions prevail at the other Scottish herring ports and are due to a general scarcity of herring. I am making inquiry on the last part of the question.

Free Meals In Schools

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many children in 1936–37 and 1937–38 received free meals under Section 6 of the Education Act, 1908; how many meals were given; how many local education authorities give free meals; and how many authorities give meals only on days when the school meets and on schooldays and holidays, respectively?

The returns furnished by education authorities do not include all the information asked for in the question, but I am making further inquiries and will communicate the results to the hon. Member.

Government Contracts

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in all cases where the lowest tender for a Government contract is not accepted, the Treasury, in the interests of the taxpayer, satisfies itself that there are very good reasons for the departure from normal custom; and also that the firm concerned is placed in possession of the reasons why its tender is not accepted?

The responsibility for deciding in any particular case whether the circumstances are such as to make it necessary to pass over the lowest tender for a Government contract rests with the Government Department concerned. It is equally for that Department to consider how far it is willing to give reasons for the non-acceptance of a tender.

Royal Navy

Dockyards Workers (Bonus)

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what is the amount of the increase in the rate of bonus payable to men employed in the Royal dockyards?

The standard rate of bonus payable to workmen employed in the royal dockyards has been increased by 2s. a week, that is, from 20s. to 22s. a week, with effect from the 5th June.

Admiralty Contracts, South Wales

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether he can state the total expenditure by His Majesty's Royal Navy in placing contracts and/or sub-contracts in the special area of South Wales and Monmouthshire, including the cost of repairs to naval ships in the docks of South Wales and Monmouthshire, and of repairs carried out afloat by workpeople from that district?

I regret that the information asked for by the hon. Member is not available and could only be obtained with a disproportionate amount of labour.

Reserve Officers (Calling Up)

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty under what Authority a number of retired naval officers were called out prior to the passing of the Reserve and Auxiliary Forces Act, 1939; whether they were informed on being called out of the power under which they were called, their rates of pay and outfit allowance, and whether such information will, in future, be furnished to officers on or before being called out under Section 1 (2) (b) of the said Act?

No retired naval officers were called up before the passing of the Act though some were given a preliminary warning. The conditions of service of officers called up are contained in the Appendix to the Navy List, except the rate of outfit allowance, which is under revision.

British Army

Militia

asked the Secretary of State for War whether there is any correspondence between any of the four grades for the Regular Army, horse and foot, mechanised, motor transport, and lines of communication, and Grades I and II for the Militia?

Grades I and II of the Militia cover approximately the four grades of the Regular Army.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can state the number of men and the regions from which they are drawn who, although rejected from the Regular Army on medical and/or physical grounds, have now been passed under Grade I and Grade II, respectively, of the Militia?

asked the Minister of Labour how many young men accepted for military training are unemployed; and whether, in all cases where it would help them in their attempts to establish themselves to be called up at once, he will assist them to do so?

The available statistics do not enable me to reply to the first part of the question; the reply to the second part is in the affirmative.

Lancashire Territorials

asked the Secretary of State for War what are now the figures required to complete the establishment of the East and West Lancashire Territorial Associations?

The numbers required on 24th June to bring the Terri-trial Army units of the East and West Lancashire Territorial Army and Air Force Associations up to establishment were 302 officers and 3,547 other ranks, and 196 officers and 326 other ranks, respectively.

Soldier's Discharge (E Rafferty)

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Mr. E. Rafferty, of. 18, Wolseley Street, Glasgow, was discharged from the Army well over a year ago with a disability, that an application was made then for a pension; that despite frequent representations no decision has yet been arrived at; and whether he will state when a decision may be expected in this case?

A decision has been reached, as my right hon. Friend has informed the hon. Member in correspondence, that, under existing rules, no pension can be granted in this case. The general principles governing cases such as this are, however, under review. This review necessarily involves a somewhat prolonged and detailed investigation, and I cannot at present say when a final conclusion will be arrived at. If, however, as a result, an alteration is made in the rules which would admit Mr. Rafferty's case, he will be given the benefit of it.

Furniture-Making Industry

asked the Minister of Labour whether, as a result of his investigations into the conditions of the furniture manufacturing trade, he is now in the position to announce his intention to set up a trade board?

This matter is under consideration, and I am not yet in a position to state what action may be taken.

Shop Assistants (Hours Of Work)

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that many shop assistants are working over 60 hours a week, and whether he will consider legislation to remedy this state of affairs?

My right hon. Friend has under consideration the reports of the joint conferences of employers' and employees' organisations in the retail distributive trades on wages, hours and conditions in these trades, but I am not at present in a position to say what action he may decide to take.

Civil Defence

Practice Blackouts

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in issuing instructions for experimental blackouts in the provinces, the local or police authorities are consulted as to the appropriateness of the selected days and times before these are officially prscribed?

Practice blackouts are normally arranged by the local authorities concerned. If, however, my hon. Friend has in mind the blackouts which are being carried out during the present month and in August in connection with the Air Ministry's home defence exercises, the dates in these cases had necessarily to be fixed in relation to these exercises.

Air-Raid Warning Sirens

asked the Lord Privy Seal what warning provision is made in advance to ensure that in case of a sudden air-raid no confusion arises as a result of experimental tests of sirens which have accustomed the public to hearing these warnings and taking no action thereupon?

Every effort is made to warn the public in advance when practice tests of sirens are to be made. In the event of a sudden emergency the public would be notified by means of broadcast announcements and other means that the warning system was in operation.

Water Supplies

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether any action is being taken to safeguard the water reservoirs supplying large centres of population?

A comprehensive survey has been made of all vital points on reservoirs supplying large centres of population and conclusions have been reached as to the measures to be taken for guarding such points both against sabotage and against air attack.

Petrol Storage

asked the Secretary for Mines whether any steps have yet been taken to offer inducements to owners of petrol-filling stations to store additional quantities of petrol?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to him on the 17th November last in answer to a similar question.

Sierra Leone

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will give the House information concerning the charge of murder through flogging made against a Section Chief and another person in Sierra Leone; whether, in view of this incident and the recent case of maltreatment by the application of pepper, he will take immediate steps to institute an inquiry into the incidence of tax collection and the irregular behaviour of officials; and whether he will ask for a special report from the Governor?

The incident referred to occurred in the Bonthe District, where it is alleged that a native who was flogged in connection with the house tax collection died within twenty-four hours. Two persons, one a Section Chief, have been committed for trial before the Circuit Court on a charge of murder. The Governor has promised another report when the trial is ended, and pending the receipt of such information as may be contained in it, I should prefer to make no further statement.

Palestine

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any information as to the secret erection in the night of 22nd June of a Jewish settlement in the Beisan; whether the Government of Palestine intends to try and prevent such a settlement; and, if so, under what Ordinance?

The High Commissioner for Palestine has reported the establishment of this settlement. The answer to the second part of the question is in the negative.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what has happened to the 748 illegal emigrants who surrendered to the police recently at Gaza, where they are interned, and how many are women and children?

Seven hundred and twelve illegal immigrants were apprehended on the steam vessel "Marsis" which was seized by a police patrol near Gaza on the 28th June. They were temporarily detained, some at Haifa and some at Sarafand, and all have now been released except 21 persons who are detained for further interrogation. The party included 198 women and 57 children. The whole number will be deducted from the next quota of legal immigrants.

Imperial Defence (Malay States)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any statement to make regarding further gifts from the Malay States towards the cost of Empire Defence?

Yes, Sir. His Highness the Sultan of Trengganu has offered to His Majesty's Government the sum of $50,000 and His Highness the Sultan of Brunei has offered the sum of $100,000 as free gifts towards the cost of Imperial Defence. These gifts have been gratefully accepted by His Majesty's Government; and I take this opportunity of recording the Government's warm appreciation of these further generous manifestations of the practical co-operation of the Rulers of the Malay States in consolidating the security of the Empire.

West Africa (Medical Service)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, with a view to the more rapid development of an African medical service, he will make an inquiry into the possibility of creating a medical school in West Africa?

A school of medicine has been established in Nigeria for a number of years and is making good progress. The whole question of the future development of higher education, including medical education, in West Africa is to be discussed at the Conference of West African Governors which is to be held in August.

Cyprus

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that the Government of Cyprus is deliberately discouraging the aspirations of the inhabitants of the island towards local self-government; that the permission is being refused the workers to meet in order to form a trade union; and what is the explanation for this refusal to permit the people of Cyprus to exercise these rights?

With regard to the first and third parts of the question I would ask the hon. Member to await the answer which, by leave of Mr. Speaker, I am giving to questions Nos. 39, 40 and 42 at the end of questions. The answer to the second part is in the negative.

Income Tax (Colonial Territories)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will state the names of those Colonies and mandated territories where there is no Income Tax nor Estate Duties; and what are the rates of Income Tax and Estate Duties in Bermuda?

There is no Income Tax in the following territories: Bahamas, Bermuda, British North Borneo, Cayman Islands, Cyprus, Gambia, Gibraltar, Gold Coast, Hong Kong, Malaya, Malta, Palestine, St. Helena, Sarawak, Sierra Leone, Somaliland, Tanganyika Territory, Turks and Caicos Islands, Uganda, Virgin Islands, the territories under the administration of the High Commissioner for the Western Pacific and Zanzibar.There is a personal or poll tax in the following territories: British North Borneo, Cayman Islands, Gilbert and Ellice Islands, Mauritius, New Hebrides, Sierra Leone, Tanganyika Territory, Tonga and Uganda.

Number of Persons killed or injured in Road Accidents.
Police District.Month19391938.1937
Killed.Injured.Killed.Injured.KilledInjured.
Scotland…April…451,451601,647521,440
May…621,646411,63261I,842
Glasgow…April…10299103859415
May…11316734711402
Edinburgh…April…483699683
May…29421203104
Dundee …April…155166455
May…263242189
Aberdeen…April…—81—71—92
May…—89—74—60
Greenock…April…—18119—27
May…—171120—30
The figures for June, 1939, are not yet complete and I will forward them, with comparative figures for the two preceding years, to the hon. and learned Member as soon as they are available.

Taxicab Fares

No Estate Duty is payable in the following territories: Bahamas, Bermuda, Brunei, Cayman Islands, Cyprus, Gambia, Gold Coast, Kelantan, Nigeria, Nyasaland, Palestine, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Sierra Leone, Somaliland, Trans-Jordan, Turks and Caicos Islands, and the territories under the administration of the High Commissioner for the Western Pacific; but in St. Lucia and Sierra Leone Succession and/or Legacy Duties are payable.

As the hon. Member will observe, there is no Income Tax or Estate Duty in Bermuda.

Transport

Road Accidents (Statistics)

asked the Minister of Transport what were the casualties from road accidents in Scotland, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, and Greenock, respectively, for the month of June, 1939, and the corresponding figures for April and May, 1939; and what are the comparable figures for 1938 and 1937, respectively?

The following is the answer:fare in Edinburgh and the additional rate thereafter; what are the corresponding figures for London, Liverpool, Glasgow, Dundee, and Aberdeen; and if, in view of the fact that the taxicab fares in operation in Edinburgh are the cause of annoyance to the inhabitants and a serious handicap to the owners of taxicabs there, he will consult with the local authority with a view to reducing these fares?

BurghMinimum FareAdditional Fare.
Aberdeen…1s. 6d. for the first mile or part thereof.2d. for every additional one-tenth of an uncompleted mile or part thereof, 1s. 6d. for every completed mile after the first. For every adult above the number of four 3d. for every mile or part thereof.
Dundee…1s. 6d. for the first mile or part thereof.1s. 6d. for every additional mile or part thereof. For every passenger above the number of four 6d.
Edinburgh…1s. 6d. for a distance not exceeding one mile or a period not exceeding 20 minutes.2d. for every additional one-eighth of a mile or part thereof or for an additional period not exceeding 2 ½ minutes. For a fifth passenger 6d.
Glasgow…1s. for not more than two grown up persons for a distance not exceeding one mile.3d. for every additional quarter of a mile or part thereof. For every person above the number of two 6d. per person.
Liverpool…1s. for the first mile or 15 minutes or for any less distance or time.3d. per quarter of a mile or 3 ¾ minutes or less distance or time.
London…9d. for two persons for the first two-thirds of a mile or 7 minutes.3d. for every additional one-third of a mile or 3 ¾ minutes. 6d. for every additional person excluding infants in arms beyond two, (two children under the age of 10 count as one person).
As regards the last part of the question, the fares in Edinburgh are regulated by by-laws made by the magistrates under powers conferred by Local Acts, and I am informed that the question of the possible reduction of existing fares has been remitted to a sub-committee of the magistrates for consideration.

Road Improvement Schemes

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the large expenditure in connection with Civil Defence, he can state whether it has now been possible to arrange for economies to be effected by postponing some of the major road works referred to in the Ministry of Transport estimates, costing in the aggregate£110,000,000, and, if so, whether he can state which particular schemes it is proposed to postpone for this purpose?

In considering the road improvement schemes referred to in the Road Fund Estimates, due regard will continue to be paid to the degree of urgency attaching to them in relation to the other calls upon the national resources.

Traffic Lights, Tottenham

The following is the answer:newly installed traffic lights at Seven Sisters Corner, Tottenham, are arranged in a manner which makes it difficult and dangerous for pedestrians to cross the road, and in view of the fact that the pedestrian crossing has been removed and the point duty constable withdrawn, will he have investigations made with a view to a rearrangement of the timing of the lights

The layout of the roads at this junction is such that the signal installation has to be of a particularly complicated character and I have already arranged to have its operation kept under close observation with a view to such alterations being made as experience may show to be necessary. I am advised that no pedestrian crossing has been discontinued, but that one crossing has been moved nearer to the signals.

Overcrowded Trains, London

asked the Minister 0f Transport whether, in view of the continuing daily overcrowding of trains by the public who are endeavouring to reach home from the congested areas in London, he will take steps to compel the appropriate transport companies to take some action to redress this state of affairs?

The railway companies and the London Passenger Transport Board are fully alive to the problem of the rush hours, to which my hon. Friend refers, and they are already engaged on a very large programme of works with the object of improving the London railway services. The Government are assisting in these developments by a guarantee of the capital to finance the works. My hon. Friend will be aware that I have no power to compel the provision of increased facilities on the railways.

Railway Companies (Freight Charges)

asked the Minister of Transport whether it is his intention to introduce legislation to amend the law governing the rates and charges which may be imposed by the railway companies for the carriage of goods and merchandise?

I would refer my right hon. Friend to the answer which I gave to questions on this subject on Wednesday, 24th May.

Isle Of Skye (Road Bridge)

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the necessity of arranging a programme of useful public works as a safeguard against a decline in industrial activity and the long period which must elapse between the inception of a major scheme and the commencement of work, he will consult with the county councils concerned for the purpose of preparing a plan for the construction of a road bridge between Lochalsh and Kyleakin in the Island of Skye?

My officers are in regular consultation with county councils on questions relating to proposed road and bridge works, and to the priorities to be attached to schemes, with due regard to traffic, financial and economic considerations.As I informed my hon. Friend on the 14th June last, the county councils, who are the responsible highway authorities, have not put forward any proposal for a road bridge between Lochalsh and Kyleakin.While I am ready to consider any proposal the councils may see fit to submit, it does not seem likely that I could accord to the scheme any high degree of priority, as this has to be decided by reference to national as well as local needs.

London Passenger Transport Board (Fares)

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that, upon the applications of the main line railway companies and the London Passenger Transport Board for orders authorising an increase in the fares, the Railway Rates Tribunal, on 26th May, issued a judgment to the effect that the financial obligations of the companies and the board are more important than the public interest, that the inadequacy of services or facilities was not a ground for refusing the applications, and that hardship caused to the travelling public was not a matter which they could take into consideration; and whether he will take immediate action to protect the needs of the travelling public as a prime consideration?

I am aware of the judgment to which the hon. Member refers but I cannot accept the construction he puts upon it.As regards the last part of the question, following is a copy of the letter which I sent yesterday to a Deputation which I received on the 15th June.Ministry of Transport.4th July, 1939Sir,PASSENGER FARES IN THE LONDON AREA.I am directed by the Minister of Transport to refer to the representations made to him on the above matter by the deputation which he received on Thursday, 15th June, at the request of a public meeting convened on Thursday, 8th June, by the Federation of Ratepayers and Kindred Associations of Surrey.It was explained to the deputation and accepted by them that the Minister had no power to postpone the operation of the increases which came into force on Sunday, 11th June, and that no good purpose would have been served by his meeting there on the preceding Friday or Saturday, as originally requested, even if he had been able to do so.2. The deputation laid before the Minister two main proposals:

  • (i)a public inquiry into the financial structure and operation of the London Passenger Transport Board, and
  • (ii)a revision of the constitution and terms of reference of the Railway Rates Tribunal, when considering passenger fares in the London Passenger Transport Area.
  • 3. In support of the first proposal the deputation contended that the holders of the board's "C" stock were in an unduly favourable position and that the settlement made in 1933 should be revised accordingly. Alternatively, it was suggested by one member of the deputation that the payment of the standard rate on the "C" stock was not mandatory arid that it was unnecessary, therefore, to increase fares for that purpose.

    It was also alleged that the board had built up an unnecessarily large reserve for the purposes of maintenance and renewal with a consequent reduction in the amount available for payment of dividend on the "C" stock. In this connection the deputation contended that the board had interpreted the same words in two different ways when providing:

  • (a) for the maintenance and renewal of rolling stock in their general accounts, and
  • (b) in the pooling scheme under Section 31 of the London Passenger Transport Act,1933;
  • in their view the board were either making too great a provision for this purpose in their general accounts or were obtaining less than their fair share of the pool.

    The deputation further suggested that in order to encourage the wider dispersal of the population of London, the cost of passenger transport should be kept as low as possible and that to this end the board's stocks should be bought in and the undertaking re-financed with the assistance of Government credits.

    4. The Minister has given careful consideration to these points and desires me to remind the deputation that the provisions of the Act of 1933, including the terms of compensation of the undertakings transferred to the board, were approved by Parliament after careful and exhaustive inquiry by a Joint Select Commit tee of both Houses. One of the principles underlying the whole conception of the board was that they should be free from political influence or interference and the Minister would not be prepared to suggest to Parliament any action which would tend to weaken that principle.

    5.It is true that the terms of compensation as approved by Parliament might have been on a different basis. The standard rate of interest on the "C" Stock might, for in stance, have been fixed at a lower figure, but in that case the amount of stock issued as compensation would have been greater. The total interest payable would have been approximately the same, but there would have been a larger capital sum to be redeemed in due course. Compensation having been fixed and paid on the basis laid down in the Act, it would not now be equitable to reduce the standard rate of dividend on the "C" Stock or to alter the provisions of the Act designed to protect the holders of that stock who, un like the proprietors of an ordinary company, have no voice in the policy or management of the Board.

    6. The Minister has no power to interpret an Act of Parliament but he has given consideration to the two questions of a legal nature raised by the deputation and is advised:

  • (i) that the Board must endeavour to maintain their revenues at such a level as will enable them to defray all the charges which are by Section 46 of the Act payable out of that revenue, and
  • (ii) that there is no legal obligation on the Board to make provision for the maintenance and renewal of rolling stock in their general accounts on the same basis as for the calculation of the operating allowances under the pooling scheme.
  • 7. On the first point, Section 46 (1) of the Act provides that the revenues of the Board shall be applied in defraying the charges there set out in a certain order of priority. The Minister is advised that this means that the revenues of the Board shall be so employed so far as they are available. The mandatory element which compels the Board to keep up their revenue so as to pay these charges is provided by Section 3 (4) of the Act which lays on the Board an obligation to conduct their undertaking in such a manner and to fix such fares and charges as to secure that their revenues shall be sufficient to defray "all charges which are by this Act required to be defrayed out of the revenues of the Board." If it were contended that this sub-section does not refer to charges which are only to be met in so far as revenue is available, there would be no charges to which it could refer, because payment of all the charges to be met out of revenue as set out in Section 46 are subject to that qualification. The Minister is advised, therefore, that Section 3 (4) of the Act is clearly intended to refer to the charges set out in Section 46.

    8. As to the second point, the words in the Act which govern the provision of maintenance and renewal in the board's general accounts are contained in Section 46 (1) ( a) and are "expenditure on or provision for the maintenance and renewal of the undertaking." Section 31, Sub-sections (5) to (8), makes pro vision for the preparation of a pooling scheme in accordance with the Tenth Schedule to the Act and this in turn provides for "operating allowances" to be fixed according to a formula which shall "give effect to those factors of cost which vary with the mileage of the trains or cars or other vehicles run." The pooling scheme includes "maintenance and renewal of rolling stock (excluding superintendence)" as one of the items of expense to be used for calculating the operating allowances, but it is clear that the allowance to be made for this item is subject to the governing words "factors of cost which vary with the mileage run."

    9. In these circumstances, the Minister is advised that there is no legal obligation on the board to make provision on the same basis in both cases. In the one case the board are dealing with the maintenance and renewal of their undertaking which, as regards rolling stock, must take account of other factors be sides those which vary with the mileage run (for example, obsolescence); and in this connection it may be noted that the provision they are making is a close approximation to the estimate given by Sir William McLintock to the Joint Select Committee of both Houses of Parliament during the passage of the Act. In the other case the board are dealing with an allowance which is to be based only on factors of cost which vary with the mileage run and it does not seem unreasonable that this provision should be based on wear and tear only. It also seems essential that the charge for operating allowances should be agreed as fair as between all the parties to the pool and this would hardly be the case if the provision for maintenance and renewal of rolling stock were to follow the varying practices adopted by the parties in relation to their general accounts.

    10. As regards the proposal made by the deputation that the board's capital should be re-financed with the assistance of Government credit the Minister wishes to point out that, quite apart from the undesirable effect of such action on the relationship of the board to the Government and the serious financial implications of such a course, it is at least doubtful whether an attempt to buy up the existing stock in the open market would result in any material saving in the total annual charge. A compulsory exchange which left the present holders of the stock worse off than was contemplated when the amount of their compensation was fixed (including their expectation of payment on the "C" stock at the standard rate) would not, in the Minister's opinion, be fair.

    Having regard to these considerations and to the exhaustive nature and wide scope of the recent inquiry by the Railway Rates Tribunal, the Minister does not consider that there is any reason for a public inquiry into the financial structure and operation of the board.

    11. The deputation's suggestion for a revision of the constitution and terms of reference of the Railway Rates Tribunal in relation to passenger fares in London was based on the grounds:

  • (i) that the membership of the tribunal does not include a representative of the travelling public, and
  • (ii) that the tribunal are not in a position to give proper weight to the needs and hardships of the travelling public.
  • The deputation also referred to the fact that there is no appeal from the decisions of the tribunal in relation to its functions under the London Passenger Transport Act, 1933, and they contended that there should be a right of appeal on points of law.

    12. The statutory provisions governing the composition of the Railway Rates Tribunal are not based on the representation of interested parties and, in relation to the matters now under consideration, it consists of a president, who must be an experienced lawyer, and four other members, who must be persons experienced respectively in commercial affairs, in railway business, in matters relating to local government in London and in financial affairs. The Minister sees no reason to suggest to Parliament that the composition of the tribunal should be altered. Apart from the difficulty of finding any one person who could properly be said to represent the travelling public, it would be foreign to the whole conception of the tribunal to introduce into its membership representatives of particular interests.

    13. The Act provides that, when dealing with the revision of the fares of the board, the tribunal:

  • (i) may have regard to the establishment and maintenance of a general basis of fares throughout the London Passenger Transport Area,
  • (ii) shall have regard to the desirability of the establishment and maintenance by the board of an adequate reserve fund, and
  • (iii) shall not make any order which would preclude the board from complying with their obligation to secure that their revenues shall be sufficient to defray all charges which are required by the Act to be defrayed out of the revenue of the board,
  • and that, when dealing with the revision of fares on the suburban passenger services of the amalgamated railway companies, the tribunal "shall not make any order…which would be likely to affect prejudicially the financial position of the amalgamated railway companies or any of them."

    These provisions are all in keeping with the general principle underlying the Act, namely, that the public interest requires that the transport system in London should be worked upon an economic basis. The alternatives to economic charges are bankruptcy or State subsidy and the Minister is not prepared to suggest to Parliament an alteration of the obligations placed on the board or of the directions to the tribunal which were designed to avoid those contingencies. Unless the board are placed in a position to meet their obligations to their stock holders they cannot raise the new capital necessary to pursue a progressive policy for extending and improving the facilities for passenger transport in their area.

    14. On the final point, the right of appeal on questions of law from a decision of the tribunal, the Minister considers that the matters which the tribunal are required to determine relating to fares and facilities are such that, as at present advised, he would not be justified in asking Parliament to reverse the decision which it took in 1933.

    I am, Sir,

    Your obedient Servant,

    LEONARD BROWETT.

    A. H. Page, Esq.,

    25, Green Lanes,

    West Ewell, Surrey.

    Jarrow Tunnel

    asked the Minister of Transport whether he has any statement to make regarding the present position in regard to the proposed Jarrow tunnel?

    Consulting engineers have been appointed by the county councils to make preliminary investigations into the possible site, or sites, for a tunnel in the neighbourhood of Jarrow and a mining expert is associated with them. A grant at the rate of 75 per cent. is being made from the Road Fund towards the cost of the survey. The general question of a tunnel under the Tyne will be considered again when the report of the consulting engineer is received.

    Hebburn-Wallsend Ferry

    asked the Minister of Transport whether he has been informed that the Hebburn ferry is definitely to cease at a very early date; if he is aware that, as this ferry carries over 1,500,000 passengers per year, its closing will add to the burden on the already inadequate and dangerously overloaded Jarrow ferry; and whether, in view of the inconvenience and loss both to traders and workers caused by the present condition of mid-Tyne crossings, he will state what steps he proposes to take in the immediate future to deal with the situation?

    I had previously been informed by Messrs. Hawthorn Leslie Company, the owners of the Hebburn-Wallsend ferry, that they proposed to discontinue the service after the 30th June, but I now understand that they have decided to continue it for a further three months.I understand that the ferry was started by the firm many years ago for the convenience of their own workpeople and that there has been a gradual extension of its use by the employés of other firms on Tyneside.As the ferry is privately owned I have no power to make grants towards this service; but even if the ferry were acquired by a highway authority and were freed from tolls, I should not be in a position to make a grant since it is a pedestrian ferry with no through traffic value.I have brought the matter to the notice of the Tyneside local authorities; but I understand that those authorities, after conference with the firms interested, have not seen their way to assume any responsibility for the continued maintenance of the ferry.The only possibility of securing the continued operation of this ferry appears to be that the firms whose workmen habitually use the ferry should collaborate amongst themselves to keep it going.

    Commercial Goods Vehicles (Re-Weighing)

    asked the Minister of Transport whether, in the case of the re-weighing of commercial goods vehicles to detect any increase of weight when used in a different area from that in which they are registered, such re-weighing only takes place after a request from the original local licensing authority, or is left to the discretion of the authority in the area in which such vehicle is operating at the time?

    As I indicated in the reply which I gave to my hon. and gallant Friend on the 28th June, the initiative lies with the licensing authority with whom the vehicle is registered.

    Railway Service, Durham

    asked the Minister of Transport (1) whether he will draw the attention of the London and North Eastern Railway Company to the number of non-stop trains passing through a station of the importance of Durham and to the lack of a through train from Durham to London after 11 a.m., or from King's Cross to Durham before 5.45 p.m.; and if he will make representations to the company to provide a better service for Durham;(2) Whether he will draw the attention of the London and North Eastern Railway Company to the fact that passengers from Durham to King's Cross leave Durham station at 4 p.m. and then have to wait at Darlington 45 minutes for a train to London while passengers from Newcastle to London can leave Newcastle at 6.30 p.m.; and if he will make representations to the company to provide a better service from Durham to London?

    I am in communication with the company and will write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

    Blackwall Tunnel (Traffic Delays)

    asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that the presence of horse-drawn traffic in the Blackwall and Rotherhithe tunnels is a frequent source of great delay to traffic passing through them; and whether the Ministry is considering any method of dealing with this obstacle to the free movement of traffic?

    I am about to make Regulations for Blackwall Tunnel prohibiting the passage of slow-moving vehicles, including horse-drawn vehicles, during certain hours of the day. When the effect of the Regulations is ascertained, the desirability of their extension to Rotherhithe Tunnel will be considered.

    Traffic Congestion, Rochester

    asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that the holiday traffic to Margate, and other pleasure resorts, is gravely inconvenienced by the continual hold-up at Rochester of traffic to the adjoining towns; and whether the Ministry have under contemplation any plans to relieve this congestion?

    I am aware of the traffic difficulties at Rochester. A survey for a by-pass was recently undertaken by the local authorities. The cost of constructing such a road will be very high, and I cannot say when the authorities concerned will be ready to proceed with a scheme.

    Esher And Cobham By-Pass

    asked the Minister of Transport when he will be able to announce his decision as to the projected line of route of the proposed Esher and Cobham by-pass road as a result of the public inquiry held by his inspector on the 28th April and 1st May; and whether, before announcing his decision, he will give further consideration to the alternative routes suggested at the inquiry avoiding the Esher and Arbrook commons?

    The alternative routes suggested at the inquiry for the proposed Esher and Cobham by-pass road are at present being surveyed and I cannot reach any decision until the survey is completed.

    Commons And Open Spaces (New Roads)

    asked the Minister of Transport whether directions have been issued for the guidance of the Roads Department directing them to avoid, as far as practicable, routes crossing commons and open spaces when selecting or approving the routes of new roads; and, if not, will he issue directions to that effect?

    The Ministry are aware of the desirability of avoiding, so far as practicable, interference with commons and open spaces, and special attention is invariably given to this matter when routes for new roads are under consideration.

    Food Defence Plans

    asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what are the nature of the steps he proposes to take to provide inducements to large jam manufacturers and fruit preservers to increase their stocks at the present time in the national interest?

    As I have stated previously, I should not propose to use the powers contained in the Essential Commodities Reserves Act for the creation of a reserve of jams or canned fruit, having regard to the necessity for obtaining the best food value possible for the money expended. I have, however, emphasised that manufacturers and traders are doing a national service at the present time in increasing their stocks so far as their individual circumstances permit.

    Coal Distribution (Inquiry)

    asked the Secretary for Mines when the commission investigating the purchase and distribution of coal supplies is likely to be concluded?

    I understand that the committee is making good progress with its inquiry, but I am not able to say when its work will be concluded.