asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the fact that conditions in the Western Isles are anomalous with regard to the working of the unemployment insurance system, he can now state when he intends to introduce special legislation covering especially the inequitable treatment of seasonal men and women workers?

I am not aware that the Seasonal Workers' Regulations, which were reviewed and amended in 1935, operate inequitably, and do not contemplate special legislation of the kind suggested.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the statement made some time ago that the conditions in the Western Isles were entirely different from the conditions anywhere else, and does he not think that we are justified in asking for special legislation to be introduced to prevent the unemployment insurance scheme working inequitably?

It is for that reason that I proposed the question to the Statutory Committee more than two years ago, and as a result, with the concurrence of the House, introduced amended regulations for that purpose.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the regulations are working badly and that is the reason why we want special legislation?

I do not think they have worked badly. I think they have been most effective for the purpose for which they were passed by the Labour Government in 1931.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that 67 men will be required to leave the Dukinfield works for York on 14th August; and whether he has consulted with other Departments with a view to the provision of Government contract work to make it possible to retain men at these works?

I am informed that the railway company are offering employment to as many as possible of the workpeople employed at the Dukinfield Works. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to his Supplementary Question on 20th July. I am, however, in close touch with other Departments on the utilisation of the facilities available at Dukinfield.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for having received a deputation, is he aware that these men are being brought in and that in many cases it is quite impossible for them to uproot their homes and move?

I am aware of that, and that is the reason why I received the deputation. We have been in contact with the Department concerned to see whether these facilities can be used.

Do consultations take place between his Department and other interests when a change of works takes place?

I have no responsibility for that.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is taking any steps to operate the suggestion in the last report of the Unemployment Assistance Board that a Clause should be inserted in rearmament contracts to provide that the employment thereon should include a proportion of persons who have been for a considerable time out of work?

The suggestion tentatively made by the Unemployment Assistance Board was that a Clause might be inserted in certain contracts requiring the contractor to engage the greater part of his men through the Employment Exchange. As to this, I would refer the hon. Member to the replies I gave to the hon. Member for South-East Leeds (Major Milner) on 15th June. I should add that in submitting applicants for vacancies the exchanges must necessarily endeavour to meet the requirements of the particular employer.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of having a periodical analysis made of applicants for benefit in order that where practicable preference shall be given to those applicants who have been standing off for a long time?

There is no need for that; we do it regularly. It is simply a matter of public policy, as to whether or not we can arrange with the contractor concerned to get a certain proportion of this labour through the Employment Exchanges.

This is a very old question. Is it not possible for the Government, where they are handing a job to a contractor, to insert a clause in the contract that the contractor must employ people nearby and who are available for the job, and thereby prevent a contractor actually advertising in Ireland for Irish labourers?

That particular point is covered in the answer to which I have referred. We are having successful negotiations with the Building Joint Council, employers and employed, and we are now in the final stage of trying to fix up a definite arrangement. I can assure hon. Members that this is a matter about which I feel keenly.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman remember that under the Unemployment Grants Committee the proposal did work, and no grant was given unless the contractor accepted this kind of contract? As it has worked successfully for many years, why should not the right hon. Gentleman accept it now?

The hon. Member will understand that the issues are not quite the same and I do not accept the comparison. I want the House to understand that I myself am very keen about this matter.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has given consideration to the representations made to him by the Carmarthenshire County Council in reference to the depressed industrial conditions in certain areas in the county; and what steps he proposes to take to assist those areas?

Yes, Sir. I am writing to the hon. Member about the specific suggestions made by the deputation which was received on my behalf. As regards the general question of attracting new industrial undertakings to the county I would refer the hon. Member to the Loans Facilities Bill which has just been introduced.

Will the right hon. Gentleman in the Recess be prepared to receive a deputation from this authority and other authorities to discuss this matter? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the provisions have proved to be totally inadequate for these areas?

I should be sorry to think that; but I am always prepared to receive a deputation on important issues.

I gather that the right hon. Gentleman is prepared to receive a deputation?

Perhaps the hon. Member will discuss the matter to me.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of a serious threat to an old-established important local industry on the North-East Coast, whereby a sound economical and durable product giving work to thousands of people in the brick industry is menaced by organised competition of a commodity from another area; and what steps he is taking to prevent an increase of unemployment in this already distressed area?

:I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave in reply to a similar question by the hon. Member for East Middlesbrough (Mr. A. Edwards) on 9th March.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the brickyards on the coast of Durham are having to close down through the incursion of these large combines from the south?

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to the inquest on Mr. S. Robinson, age 36, of Castle Hill, Hindley, Wigan, who committed suicide after being unemployed for seven years continuously, at which the coroner expressed surprise that a man should have been out of work for so long a period, although this is quite common in Hindley; and will he take steps to induce the Lancashire Industrial Development Company to start new industries in this township, and thereby assist to obviate this state of things?

:The Government does not accept responsibility for the management of the Lancashire Industrial Sites Company, Limited, but I can assure the hon. Member that the company is aware of the desirability of attracting new industrial undertakings which will provide employment for persons resident in Hindley. I propose to take the opportunity of reminding the company of the situation in the area. As the hon. Member is aware, everything possible has been done to draw the attention of the Defence Departments, and of firms wishing to establish new industries, to the opportunities afforded by this area, and my Department will continue to do this.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this coroner, who lives about 20 miles from Hindley, was astonished that a person should have been unemployed for seven years. Is he not aware that there are hundreds if not thousands of these cases in the Wigan coal area?

I am well aware of that, and that is why we have made continuous efforts in the matter and shall continue to do so.

:May I ask why no effort is made to employ these miners at Chorley?

:I gave an answer some time ago which showed that some of them have found employment there.

asked the Minister of Labour whether it is the practice of area officers of the Unemployment Assistance Board to deduct rent from allowances paid to persons who are participating in rent strikes; and whether instructions will be issued forbidding the intervention of the Board's officers in disputes between tenants and landlords?

:It is not the Board's practice to intervene in disputes of this kind, but in determining the amount of the allowance in any case the Board are bound under the Regulations to have regard to the question whether any, and, if so, how much, rent is in fact being paid. If the hon. Member has any particular case in mind and will let me have the details, I will have inquiry made.

:Is the Minister aware that I have seen a letter from an official suggesting that such action will be taken. and if I show him the evidence, will he take steps to stop this practice?

I should like to see that letter.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, in the event of these unemployed men being compelled to pay the rent at some time in the future, the Unemployment Assistance Board will make allowances to meet such payments?

That is a hypothetical question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Mr. R. H. Geisler, 83, Studley Grange Road, London, W 7, was fined at Hanley Police Court for keeping his daughter away from school although he had informed the school authorities that the reason for the girl's absence was lack of footwear, and that his inability to provide footwear was due to the fact that he was unaware of his right to supplementary benefit from the Unemployment Assistance Board in view of his large family; and whether, in view of such cases, he will consider the necessity of displaying posters at all Employment Exchanges advising applicants of their rights to draw supplementary benefit from the Unemployment Assistance Board under certain circumstances?

The terms of the poster relating to unemployment assistance have been reconsidered, and a revised poster making specific reference to the position of persons in receipt of unemployment insurance benefit is now being printed and will be issued in a few days to all local offices of the Ministry. As regards the case mentioned I am informed by the Board that an allowance in supplementation of unemployment insurance benefit was granted as long ago as 18th May last.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons in receipt of unemployment assistance in the administrative county of Lancaster, and of the 17 associated county boroughs on the latest date for which figures are available?

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the fact that in April, 1939, 26.6 per cent, of the applicants for unemployment assistance in the Bargoed area and 32.8 per cent, of similar applicants in the Caerphilly area required additions to scale allowance for nourishment purposes, he is prepared to re-investigate the claim that the present scale allowances are inadequate to meet the needs arising out of long-term unemployment?

The additions to which the hon. Member refers are given irrespective of the duration of unemployment and are designed to meet needs arising from some specific cause such as illness in the applicant's household. I cannot agree that the fact, that use is made of the discretionary powers contained in the Regulations to meet special needs of this kind is a ground for suggesting that a general revision of the scales is called for.

What degree of suffering has to obtain in South Wales before the Minister will be prepared to meet these cases?

I cannot accept that at all. The hon. Member knows that the average payment per applicant is now higher than it ever was.

Does the right hon. Gentleman say that there is no suffering?

I said I could not accept the implication in the supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Labour the amount that was saved by the Unemployment Assistance Board owing to the means test during 1938; and the estimate of the amount for this year?

I regret that it is not possible to add anything to the information given in a reply to the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Dalton) on 16th July, 1936, of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

Is the Minister aware that the Unemployment Assistance Board gave these figures in the 1937 report, and if they could do it then, why cannot they do it now?

I cannot agree with the hon. Member's statement. On many occasions I have given a long and reasoned reply on that matter.

Is not the Minister aware that in 1937 the Board reported that the total amount going into the households where the means test applied was £19,000,000, and that 25 per cent. was used to reduce the benefits?

The hon. Member's supplementary question proves my original answer.

Is it not a fact that the Minister does not want to give the figures?

No. I am always glad to give figures. I am prepared to give a multitude of figures.

asked the Minister of Labour the amount paid to unemployed persons by the Unemployment Assistance Board for the year 1935 and the estimate for 1939?

The total amount paid to applicants for assistance to the Unemployment Assistance Board during the financial year 1935 was £42,569,000. The provision for the financial year 1939 made in the Estimates is £38,875,000; it is expected that the actual expenditure will be less than this sum but it is not possible at this stage to give any definite figure.

As there has been a reduction of £6,000,000 in payments, could not the Government agree to abolish the means test?

No. The reason for the reduction is happily this, that when the Board was established it was estimated that they would be dealing with an average roll of 800,000 long-term unemployed, whereas at present the figure is 456,000.

asked the Minister of Labour the amount of money going into households under the means test from the following sources during 1938: sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, old age pensions, widows' and orphans' pensions, and blind pensions?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to a similar question by the hon. Member for Aberdare (Mr. G. Hall) on 22nd June, 1939, of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy. It is estimated that of the sum of £13,157,600, shown in that reply as earnings, about £8,600,000 represents the earnings of sons or daughters of applicants, and about £1,900,000, the earnings of brothers or sisters.

Is the Minister aware that the answer to the hon. Member for Aberdare (Mr. G. Hall) gave only the amount for old age pensions, widows' pensions and blind pensions, and did not deal with sons and daughters, or brothers and sisters?

I have done my best to supplement that in the answer I have just given. I am always glad to oblige.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of persons in receipt of discretionary allowances at the following area offices: Treorchy, Tonypandy, Ferndale and Porth?

Such information as is available is based upon a 5 per cent. sample of cases current on 7th October, 1938. This sample indicates that in the Board's administrative district of Cardiff, which includes the areas of Treorchy, Tonypandy, Ferndale and Porth, 14,880 determinations out of a total of 28,740, representing 51.8 per cent., included discretionary additions. While such a sample gives reasonably accurate results in relation to an administrative district as a whole, it is not sufficiently large to be used as a basis for separate statistics for individual areas.

Why is it not possible to give these figures for the areas mentioned in this question?

It would not be possible without a complete examination. At the moment, I do not think such an examination would be justified.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can state, as on the last convenient date, how many domiciliary visits are paid by means-test investigators in the Southern area which involve journeys out and home of over 25, 50 and 100 miles?

I regret that the information desired by the hon. Member is not available and could not be obtained without a special detailed examination in the Board's local offices of the individual travelling records of the investigating officers who carry out the work of domiciliary investigation in the Board's southern region.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the estimated loss of people from the county of

asked the Minister of Labour particulars as to the age distribution of men unemployed in each of the Durham by emigration from 1931 to mid-1938, the latest date for which an estimate is obtainable, was 76,000; and whether there is any hope of new industries being established to prevent this constant drain of young people from the county?

I am aware that there has been considerable migration from this area, but would remind the hon. Member of the large number of new industrial undertakings which have been established in Durham with assistance in one form or another under the Special Areas Acts.

Is the Minister aware that factories are still being erected in the London area, and will he use his influence to see that some of the factories are diverted to Durham?

No doubt that matter will be dealt with in the Debate to-day.

asked the Minister of Labour how great have been the reductions in unemployment in each of the four Special Areas between the date of the first appointment of the Commissioners and the present time?

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I am having the figures extracted and will send them to the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that men employed in a Midlands arms factory are suffering from fatigue due to excessive overtime, resulting in a high rate of breakage of machine-tools; that during the Great War sickness ratio amongst munitions workers, due to excessive hours of labour, increased to such an extent that representations on the subject were made to the Government by the medical fraternity; and will he take steps to prevent long hours in the interests of the workers' health?

I am not aware of the case to which the hon. Member refers. I would point out that there is joint machinery in the engineering industry under which cases of alleged excessive overtime can be brought up.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the United Thread Company's mill at Meltham, upon which the town largely depends for employment and its local tradesmen for customers, is about to close down; and what action he proposes to take both to find work for those displaced and to utilise the mill itself at this time of national emergency?

I understand that the mill is to be closed down but no definite date has yet been fixed. My Department are in touch with the firm and a considerable number of workpeople have already been released in order to take up other employment. Every effort will be made to place the remainder of the workpeople in employment when the time comes for their discharge. The facilities available at Meltham will be borne in mind by my Department. I understand that the Meltham Urban District Council have already been in communication with the Army Clothing Contracts Advisory Committee in Manchester, with regard to the possibility of using the mill for this type of work.

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of workpeople taken on and recruited through the Employment Exchanges in Monmouthshire, during the past six months, at the Glascoed ordnance works; and the number of men amongst them who are 50 years of age and upwards?

I regret this information is not available, but I would refer the hon. Member to my reply of Thursday last.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it is worth while making inquiries in order to ascertain whether or not these men, who have been unemployed for long periods and are about 50 years of age, are being employed on this Government work?

The hon. Member knows that I did my best to procure the information by having a rough count made on Friday week which showed that at least 475 men aged 50 or over were engaged on this work.

Does that mean that the Minister has knowledge that these contractors are refusing to take men who are about 50 years of age?

No such assumption must be made.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that of 6,500 men now employed on the construction of the Glascoed ordnance works more than half are expected to be discharged during the next six months; whether any plans have been prepared for providing alternative work for those men; and, if so, can he indicate the type of work that will be provided?

I am aware that work on the Glascoed Ordnance Factory must be expected to fall off gradually during the course of the next 12 months. I have no reason to suppose that as men are discharged they will not be absorbed on other Government or civil building works under construction or in contemplation. I can assure the hon. Member that all possible steps will be taken through the machinery of the Employment Exchanges to place such men in employment for which they are qualified.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if these men are thrown out of employment, the percentage of unemployment in that area will be as high as ever it has been; and that in addition to the local people he will have to contend with the people who have been imported through this job?

I cannot accept that assumption. The same kind of case was put up in advance when the work at Chorley was coming to an end and we made the most elaborate arrangements there. We found, when the time came that many of the men had found jobs elsewhere.

Is the Minister aware that the same position will arise in connection with other works at Bridgend and elsewhere, and that during the next few months thousands of men who have been engaged on the construction of these works will be unemployed; and what prospect can the right hon. Gentleman hold out that work will be found for these men in the areas in which they live?

We shall do our best in advance, but I deprecate these general statements as to what must happen in certain circumstances, six months hence. They are much too arbitrary.

Does the Minister deny that these men will lose their jobs?

On this particular work, but it does not follow that they will not get other work.

Has not the Minister often referred to what will happen in the winter time?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, although a substantial general reduction took place in unemployment between February, 1938, and May, 1939, there was no reduction during that period in the number of men aged 45 years and over who have been unemployed for more than 12 months; and whether he will give further consideration to methods of securing for such men a fair chance in the labour market?

Yes, Sir. This appears to result from the displacement of a number of elderly workers which occurred during the recession in trade in the Autumn of 1937, and is indicative of the difficulty which older men, in general, experience in regaining employment. It must not, however, be assumed that the recent improvement in employment has in no way benefited the older workers since, during the same period there was a reduction of over 4,000 in the number of men over 45 years of age who had been unemployed for two years or more. As I mentioned in my replies to the hon. Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths) on 2nd February, 1939, and to the hon. Member for Wallsend (Miss Ward) on 15th June, 1939, the question of re-absorbing the elderly unemployed is a matter which is engaging my attention.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of cases reported to him of young men liable to be called up under the Military Training Act who have been dismissed from their employment; the number he has caused to be investigated; and in how many cases he proposes to take further action?

:asked the Minister of Labour how many complaints he has received of militiamen losing their employment because of their liability for service under the Military Training Act; what is the nature of the evidence he requires before action is taken to prosecute employers who dismiss their employés, and particularly in deciding between the employers' assurance that the dismissal occurred owing to slackness of work and the complaint of the dismissed employé that his dismissal is due to his liability to service?

One hundred and sixty-two cases altogether have been reported to the Department, of which 46 were sent to me personally, or to the Parliamentary Secretary. Investigation is complete in 106 cases and is proceeding in the remainder. In none of the cases where the investigations are complete has any sufficient evidence been revealed to support the suggestion that a dismissal was due to the man's liability under the Military Training Act. The kind of evidence required must depend on the particular circumstances of the case.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in many of these cases the man just gets a notice to leave? What evidence does the right hon. Gentleman ask for in these cases?

I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman. The procedure is this. The moment we get a complaint we find whether it can be classified into one of two classes, whether there is no prima facie evidence in the case itself, or whether there is prima facie evidence. In the case where there is no prima facie evidence, we give instructions locally to make inquiries, and, of course, we can, through our exchange machinery, soon come to the conclusion as to whether the employer has a good or bad reputation. Where there is a prima facie case we then proceed at once to ask the employer for his observations. May I add this: It is a very important matter. I have received a number of replies. There may be some legal trouble between the two sides—we have had it in recent cases—but if any hon. Member would like to see the reply in any case in which he is interested, I shall be pleased to show it to him.

May I ask whether or not the tribunal has been consulted in any of these cases?

I should like to have notice of that question.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of youths called up in Lancashire under the Military Training Act; the number who were employed in the coal industry; and the number liable yet to be called up subject to physical fitness?

The answers to the first two parts of the question are 4,818 and 142 respectively. The number of men in Lancashire who remain liable, subject to fitness, to be called up before June, 1940, is 18,742.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that John Drummond, of 239, Links Street, Kirkcaldy, who recently joined the Militia, agreed to a deduction of 3s. 6d. weekly from his military pay, payable to his mother; that the War Office augmented by 13s. 6d. weekly; that the weekly allowance of Drummond's father has been reduced by the Unemployment Assistance Board by IIS. weekly on account of his son's Militia grant; and whether he will take steps to secure that this deduction is not made, in view of the voluntary deduction from Drummond's military pay and the nature of the War Office allowance?

I understand that before Mr. Drummond was called up for training the Board's allowance to his unemployed father was at the rate of 18s. 6d. per week, including 2s. for extra nourishment for his sister. The household consisted of, the father, his wife and an unemployed daughter and of Mr. Drummond himself, who was in work. The present allowance is at the rate of 23s. including the same 2s. which at present has been granted only up to 25th August, but will be continued if the circumstances justify it. The applicant's mother is of course receiving, in addition, the 3s. 6d. allotment and the grant of 13s. 6d. making a weekly total of 40s.

Do I understand that the Minister is satisfied with this treatment of the father, and that this was purely a matter of administration as far as the benefit was concerned?

If the hon. Gentleman will look at the way in which the applicant's father was treated before the allotment was made and after the son had enlisted, he will find that there was a rise of 9s.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to the remarks of the chairman of the military service tribunal held at Birmingham on the 26th July, when he warned applicants for permission to be placed on the register of conscientious objectors that if they broke the conditions of such registration they would have to face the tribunal again and, perhaps, be fined; and by what authority the chairman was empowered to threaten applicants in this manner?

I understand that the chairman of the tribunal referred to the provisions of the Military Training Act which apply where persons registered conditionally under Section 3 (7) (b) of the Act fail to observe the condition of registration. I consider that it is in the interests of the applicants themselves as well as in the public interest that the provisions of the Act should be made known.

May we be informed whether any suggestions were made to the chairman by any officers representing the Ministry?

The chairman, of course, exercised his discretion as chairman of the tribunal, and there was no question of pressure.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has yet constituted the local tribunals for conscientious objectors under the Military Training Act; and, if so, whether he will give the names of the chairman and members who have been appointed?

:The following local tribunals have so far been constituted:

• East Anglia.
• Midlands.
• South Eastern.
• South Western.
• North Wales.
• South Wales.
• The Northern Counties of Scotland.
• The North Eastern Counties of Scotland.
• The South Eastern Counties of Scotland.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of men who have been called up under the Military Training Act who were in receipt of unemployment benefit or unemployment assistance at the following exchanges and area offices: Treorchy, Tonypandy, Ferndale and Porth?

I regret that this information is not available.

asked the Lord Privy Seal the number of air-raid shelters that have been issued to private householders residing in the borough of Southwark; whether the same are in condition for immediate use; and what steps are being taken to supply the balance of the householders in this district with air-raid shelters on demand?

:The borough council of Southwark has been supplied with all the standard steel shelters for which it considers there are suitable sites in the borough. Of this quantity, 2,275 have been erected, and the balance of approximately 1,000 will be erected by the end of August. In addition, the names of 345 householders are recorded as eligible to receive shelters giving extended accommodation. These will be delivered towards the end of August. Other dwelling-houses in the borough are being surveyed by the local authority as rapidly as possible in order to see what alternative types of shelter, either surface shelters or strutted basements, can be provided.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of these shelters that have been erected are not in a proper or reasonable position, and are steps being taken to remedy that?

No, Sir. I have answered the question on the Paper, and I have said that 2,275 shelters have been erected, and that the remainder, amounting to about 1,000, will have been erected by the end of August.

But is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those that are erected are not in the proper positions?

No, Sir, I am not.

asked the Lord Privy Seal what is the estimated number of persons in London entitled to free shelter from air raids in or near their homes?

I am not in a position to give any close estimate of the numbers of persons in London who come within the Government's scheme for the free provision of domestic shelter. According to estimates made by the local authorities concerned, there are approximately 936,325 householders in the Metropolitan Police District who fall within the categories to which the steel shelters are being distributed and occupy houses in which this type of shelter can suitably be installed. This number of householders might be taken as representing a total of about 4,000,000 persons; but there would remain, in addition, those for whom shelter can more suitably be provided by other means, such as the standard type of surface shelter or the strutted basement. The precise extent of this part of the problem is being ascertained by means of a survey which is now being carried out as rapidly as possible throughout the Metropolitan boroughs.

May I ask when that survey will be finished, and in view of the Recess, will my right hon. Friend publish the results of the survey?

The survey is being proceeded with very rapidly, and I have little doubt that it will be finished in the very near future. I will consider the suggestion made by my hon. Friend in the second part of his supplementary question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the value of these shelters is seriously detracted from by the fact that they let in water and that it is extremely difficult to drain them, and can his Department make any suggestion for dealing with that problem?