asked the Minister of Labour whether he will in future in unemployment returns give a separate rough estimate of those unemployed persons, distinguished from persons in seasonal and transitory unemployment and likely to be re-employed within the next 28 days, who, if work be provided, could undertake unskilled or skilled continuous work with only the normal interruptions?

The information available does not enable any satisfactory estimate to be made of the total number of those on the unemployed register who are likely to be re-employed within a specified period, and I therefore regret that it does not appear practicable to adopt my hon. Friend's suggestion.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether all the people on the live register are in fact unemployed and want to get work and cannot get work?

I have no doubt that the majority of them do.

asked the Minister of Labour the amount of grants made by the Commissioner for Special Areas during the past 12 months, and how the grants have been distributed and the purposes for which they were made; and to what extent it is proposed to maintain the work of the Commissioner during the present year?

As the question involves a number of figures, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate a statement in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Are these grants being studied in relation to the recommendations of the Royal Commission and will the right hon. Gentleman make a statement on that matter?

I cannot make a statement on that point, as it does not arise out of this Question.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the num- ber and the amount of the loans granted during the past 12 months by the Special Areas Reconstruction Association; and whether the Association proposes to continue its work and to make loans in the coming financial year?

:The Special Areas Reconstruction Association has agreed to make 23 loans amounting to £68,850 during the last 12 months. Certain of the loans, however, will not be proceeded with during the present abnormal trading conditions owing to the restrictions of markets, essential supplies, etc. The Association is continuing its work and proposes to grant further loans in suitable cases having regard to the circumstances prevailing when the applications are considered.

Can we have circulated in the Official Report details of the loans which have been authorised and those which have been postponed?

I do not know whether the information is available or not, but if the hon. Member likes to put down a Question on the point, I will see to it.

asked the Minister of Labour how many semi-skilled and unskilled unemployed persons are asking for work in the engineering industries; and what arrangements are being made with the trade union leaders and the employers to help to train these applicants in workshops where employment is available?

On 12th February, the number of insured persons in Great Britain aged 16–64, classified as belonging to the engineering industries and recorded as unemployed, was 43,143. This figure, however, includes all workers connected with the industry, skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled, and also ancillary workers of all types, such as clerks, cleaners and transport workers. I am not in a position to state separately the number of semi-skilled and unskilled workers included in the total. As my hon. Friend will be aware, I am at present engaged in discussing with the employers and the trade unions in the engineering industries the measures required for the expansion of the labour force to the extent rendered necessary by the Government's war programme. The question of training facilities is amongst the matters being discussed.

Is it not time that the Government sat down to think out ways and means of employing all the unemployed in this country, whether skilled or unskilled? Surely it is not outside the wit of the Cabinet to devise ways and means of employing the unemployed.

asked the Minister of Labour the figures of the able-bodied men signing on at the Employment Exchange in Newcastle-on-Tyne?

At 12th February, 1940, there were 10,404 unemployed men aged 18 and over on the registers of Employment Exchanges in Newcastle-on-Tyne.

Can anything be done to reduce the number?

It is constantly being done, and if my hon. Friend will look at the recent figures, he will see that that is so.

Is it not time that the Minister and those who are associated with him tackled this question of unemployment seriously, and abolished it?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will now make plans to operate, in case a large decrease of unemployment in the building and allied trades does not take place when the weather becomes more suitable for such work, including provision to transfer small or large groups of the unemployed into some of the other 546 main occupations, placing such groups into localities where work could be found?

The Government's programme of works and building will absorb a large number of operatives in the building and allied industries, including many of those at present unemployed. In so far as there remains any surplus of unemployed men in these industries, every effort will be made, through the Employment Exchanges, to place them in other employment, for which they are suitable.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the unemployed at Normanton have been informed that the winter allowances will not be paid after 1st March; and whether, in view of the hard winter and the increase in the cost of living, the allowance can be continued for a further period?

No, Sir. As stated in the Board's instruction to their officers, a copy of which was placed in the Library of the House last October, the last payment of winter allowances will be made during the calendar week ending 30th March.

Can the Minister say why the unemployed at Normanton were so informed?

I am not aware that they were so informed.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that the memorandum to hardship committees re- specting maximum postponement of military service due to business responsibilities has been interpreted as only permitting the period of postponement to be both maximum and final for one year; and, in view of the considerable apprehension this has aroused, whether he will clarify the position and indicate if it will still be possible to appeal for a further period of postponement at the end of the 12 months allowed?

Under the National Service (Armed Forces) (Postponement Certificates) Regulations, the maximum total period of postponement that may be granted on an application based on business responsibilities and interests is 12 months.

Do I understand from the right hon. Gentleman that that means that no further postponement can be given; and does he appreciate that this imposes a great deal of hardship, anxiety and apprehension upon many worthy applicants?

I cannot think that, because the postponement is for the purpose of enabling permanent arrangements to be made for the disposal of the business, and I do not think that 12 months is an ungenerous allowance.

Does not that mean in fact that the business must be disposed of, by some means or other, or closed down, if the applicant cannot find someone with whom to make a deal?

The hon. Member will be aware that it depends upon what arrangements can be made.

asked the Minister of Labour, in view of the power given to hardship committees under the National Service (Armed Forces) Act to veto an appeal against their refusal to grant postponement or renewal of postponement of National Service when their decision is unanimous, whether he will state the number of cases in which the refusal of the application has been accompanied by denial of permission to appeal?

Section 6 (3) of the National Service (Armed Forces) Act provides that if the determination of a Military Service (Hardship) Committee with respect to any application for a postponement certificate was unanimous, the applicant shall not be entitled to appeal to the Umpire or any Deputy Umpire except with the leave of the committee. Statistics showing the number of cases in which leave to appeal has been asked for and refused by committees are not available.

In view of the fact that the Minister has no figures and that there is evidence that applicants for postponement have been refused leave to appeal, will he see that an assurance is given to the public that if an appeal is made to the Umpire, it will not be treated unfairly?

At the moment I have little evidence of that, but if the hon. and gallant Member has any evidence, I shall be glad to look into it. I am very anxious to see that applicants are assured that fair consideration is being given to them.

Is it not a fact that there is no assurance at all?

All the committees are working extremely well.

Is it not a fact that the only ground upon which an appeal can rest is a change in circumstances?

The hon. Member will find that in my answer.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider lowering the reservation age for key men in the various branches of the cotton industry?

The matter is now being considered, and I will communicate with the hon. Member as soon as a decision has been reached.

Is the Minister aware of the acute shortage of labour already in the industry, and particularly of the difficulty of training skilled men?

A number of facts have been brought to my notice in connection with this matter.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will take steps to secure the release of men from the Armed Forces whose technical qualifications are being wasted and who are so urgently required in the engineering and allied industries and other industries catering for the export trade?

The intake of men into the Armed Forces has been regulated since the outbreak of war by the Schedule of Reserved Occupations, which ensures that men from the most important civil occupations are taken into the Forces only to the extent that they are required for service in their trade capacity. As regards men already in the Forces before the Schedule of Reserved Occupations came into operation, arrangements have been made for the release to industry of considerable numbers of men belonging to the most vital civil occupations and for the transfer of many others to work in their trades in the Forces. So far as cases are not covered by these general arrangements, the proper course for an employer wishing to secure the release of a skilled man from the Forces is to make application to the Government Department on whose work he is principally engaged, which, if fully satisfied as to the exceptional merits of the case, will take up the possibility of release with the Service Department concerned.

Is it the fact that only those men who are privates can be called back from the Army, and that lance-corporals and other N.C.Os. cannot be released?

As a general rule N.C.Os. are not released.

Is it impossible to get a man back into the workshop if he has been promoted to be an officer?

I think that that question should be put to the appropriate Department. I would not like to give a definite answer, because there might be some special case where there was a very high standard of skill.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) whether he can make a statement on the consultations which have taken place between himself and the representatives of the engineering employers and the trade unions catering for workpeople employed in the engineering industry;

(2) whether he will revise the Schedule of Reserved Occupations so as to retain skilled engineers of a younger age in civilian employment, in view of the great demand, the Temporary Relaxation Agreement, and the introduction of dilution; and will he see that the services of skilled and semi-skilled engineers' services are utilised to the best advantage?

My discussions with the engineering employers and trade unions are for the purpose of considering what measures are required to secure both the best utilisation of the existing labour force in the industry and the necessary expansion to meet war demands. I should like to take this opportunity of expressing my appreciation of the single-minded desire to co-operate fully in the nation's war effort which has been shown both by the employers and the trade unions. As regards recruitment for the Forces, engineers in the more highly skilled trades are not called up except to the extent to which they are required for service in their own trades.

In the course of these discussions has notice been taken of the large number of skilled men who have been employed for a considerable number of years in unskilled occupations, and is any effort being taken to get them back to engineering?

That is one of the points that are being discussed.

asked the Minister of Labour whether employers and unions in the shipbuilding and engineering industry have asked for the recall of skilled men from the Forces; whether he can state the number asked for; and how many have been released?

Applications for the release of men from the Forces have to be addressed, not to my Department, but to the Government Departments on whose work the employer desiring to recover the services of the man concerned, is principally engaged. I regret that I am, therefore, not in general in a position to give the information asked for.

As this Question can only be addressed to the right hon. Gentleman, how are we to get the information? Is it not true to say that the employers and the unions have asked for several thousand men, and only a few men have been released, and that it is holding up shipbuilding?

That is not so. I could not accept the hon. Gentleman's premise. If he will address that Question to the separate Departments, he may get an answer.

Is it not the case that the right hon. Gentleman is both Minister of Labour and Minister for National Service? Surely he is the Minister who co-ordinates this matter.

That is true, but I do not decide whether a particular application is vital in the national interest. I have no responsibility for making that decision; it is the responsbility of the Department concerned with the particular Government demands or contracts.

Can the Minister not take steps to see that the Service Ministers expedite decisions on these matters?

I know there has been considerable progress.

Who supplies you with this information?

Will the Minister bear in mind that skilled men are extremely useful in the Forces and that if he takes them away it will reduce the efficiency of the Forces?

One of the reasons for this arrangement is the problem of keeping a true balance between the needs of the Armed Forces and industry.

How many coal miners are there in the Army? We cannot get a collier back, even through the eye of a needle.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been directed to the necessity of retail dealers in meat having an adequate supply of skilled labour to enable them to carry out the duty of cutting to a ration which will be imposed on them when the rationing of meat comes into operation on 11th March, and to the difficulties which slaughtering contractors under the Ministry of Food control of meat and livestock are experiencing in the matter of obtaining a sufficient number of skilled slaughtermen to enable them to carry out their contracts; and whether he is now prepared to accede to the request of the National Federation of Meat Traders Associations that butchers' cutters and slaughtermen be placed on the Schedule of Reserved Occupations as from 25 years of age?

The request of the National Federation of Meat Traders Associations that the age of reservation of butchers' cutters and slaughtermen under the Schedule of Reserved Occupations should be reduced from 30 to 25 is being considered by my Department in consultation with the Ministry of Food. In regard to the suggestion that there is a shortage of skilled slaughtermen, may I refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to a Question by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for The Wrekin (Colonel Baldwin-Webb) on 13th February.

In view of the extreme urgency of this matter of the age of reservation, can we have an undertaking from the Minister that the decision will be come to very shortly?

We shall come to a decision as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of conscientious objectors who have claimed exemption in each class since the passing of the Military Training Act, 1939; the total number exempted and refused exemption up to the latest date and the number that have been so far arrested and handed over to the military; whether any have yet been sentenced for refusal to obey military commands; and, if so, what sentence has been imposed in each case?

The number of men who have claimed registration as conscientious objectors is 21,349. Statistics are, however, not available showing separately on which of the three grounds allowed by the Act the applications were made. Up to 24th February, 8,335 cases had been heard by local tribunals, of which 1,078 were registered as conscientious objectors unconditionally, 3,738 were registered on condition that they undertook civil work, 2,040 were registered for non-combatant duties in the Armed Forces, and 1,479 were removed from the register of conscientious objectors. The remaining parts of the Question should be addressed to the Secretary of State for War.

Can the Minister state why there should be such a large percentage of people who, being genuine conscientious objectors, are refused exemption?

The hon. Member knows that I am not the judge of the tribunal.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that it has recently been calculated that, whereas deaths from tuberculosis in 1913 were 28 per cent. higher on Tyneside than in the rest of the country, in 1937 they were 54 per cent. higher; that, although all districts have improved to some extent, the improvement has been uneven, indicating that certain districts require special attention; and what particular steps he proposes to take to protect these districts from a considerable rise in tuberculosis during the present war?

The death rate from tuberculosis in the Tyneside area as a whole shows a decrease of 36 per cent. since 1913, but the decrease varies considerably in different districts and is less than the decrease for England and Wales, which is 49 per cent. I am aware of the need for keeping a watch on the local position there, and, as I informed the hon. Member on 29th February, I have approved the continuation of the building scheme for a new sanatorium by the Poole Sanatorium Joint Board. This should be completed in 12 months and will add 315 beds to the accommodation available for the area. In drawing comparisons with experience in the last war, it is fair to have in mind the great improvement in general living conditions and in the facilities now available for the treatment of tuberculosis.

Is not the Minister aware that the contentions in this Question are strictly accurate, and will he advise the House as to what special steps are being taken?

I understood that the hon. Member was asking a Question and not making contentions.

Do I understand that the Minister has no serious reply to give?

I have given a serious reply. There are few districts in the whole of the country where we have not continued adding to the building of the hospital accommodation which is available.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that a private soldier was sent, on the night of Sunday, 28th January, to a hospital in Hastings where he was refused admission on the ground that beds must be kept for air-raid cases; that he returned home on foot and by omnibus through the snow, and was sent next day to the Buchanan Hospital, Hastings, where he died within three days from pneumonia; and whether a further direction will be given to hospitals in Hastings that cases of illness should not be rejected for the sake of keeping empty beds?

I have had inquiries made at the three hospitals at Hastings where beds are provided for air-raid casualties and can find no evidence that a soldier was refused admission as alleged by the hon. Member. I am assured that the hospitals fully understand that they should not refuse admission to anyone requiring in-patient treatment in order to keep beds empty for possible air-raid casualties. I do not think, therefore, that any further direction to the hospitals is required.

Are we to understand that hospitals are not required to keep a proportion of their beds empty? Seeing that the enormous supply of beds for civilian people, pre-war, was not in excess of the demand, is it not evident that the hospitals have an obligation to keep a certain proportion of their beds empty for necessary cases?

That is not so in any way. In the first place, no hospital is required to keep any bed empty for air-raid casualties if it is required for urgent cases, civilian or military, especially military, and, furthermore, extra accommodation is being arranged for by beds which are being added to the existing accommodation.

Will the Minister consider the case, which reached me this morning, of a blind old woman who was refused admission to a hospital?

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the additional duties placed upon local authorities due to war conditions and the consequent danger that the supervision of milk supplies in the matter of the inspection of farm premises, storage and handling of milk and the collecting and testing of samples may be relaxed, he will take steps to secure the universal adoption of pasteurisation by the collection and treatment of all milk in central depots, or at least of non-designated milk, thereby eliminating the danger to consumers of diseases from this latter source?

No, Sir. I do not contemplate the introduction in present circumstances of the legislation which would be necessary to effect the object which the hon. Member has in mind.

Is the Minister aware that non-designated milk is not only dirty, but tubercular, and ought to be dealt with in the same way as I am suggesting in this Question.

Answer.

Owing to there being no reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at an early date.

asked the Prime Minister whose is the responsibility for attacking low-flying aircraft which machine-gun the merchant navy and trawlers?

:Protection against air attack is afforded partly by fighter aircraft and partly by guns, either mounted in the ships themselves, in escorting vessels, or on shore in defended ports and estuaries. The responsibility is thus a joint one, and special arrangements have been made to ensure the closest co-operation between the three Services in dealing with attacks of this kind.

Can this co-operation be made much closer than it has been in the past?

I do not think it could be closer than it is now.

Is the Prime Minister aware that seamen who have been attacked by low-flying enemy aircraft have alleged to me personally that our own aircraft have been seen while the attack has been proceeding, and that they have not been assisted in any way—that there has been a lack of co-operation?

I do not think that can be attributed to any lack of co-operation, but, obviously, it is difficult to find a particular aircraft when it comes over by itself.

asked the Minister of Shipping whether the whole cost of the loss of personal property by crews of merchant and fishing vessels due to enemy action is borne by the crews themselves; and whether he will institute a scheme of insurance with Government assistance, to meet this serious hardship?

No, Sir. The Government have made arrangements for the payment to crews of compensation for war damage to their effects. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the scheme.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the compensation paid by the Government is miserably inadequate and that those crews who suffer from enemy action are being compensated to the extent of only 50 per cent. of their losses?

Will my right hon. Friend circulate the scheme in the Official Report?

The scheme is contained in the Statutory Rules and Orders, 1939. No. 1070, and 1940, No. 269.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, as chairman of the Committee of the War Cabinet dealing with agriculture since the outbreak of the war, he is now in a position to make a statement as regards the progress achieved?

:The proceedings of all such committees are, of course, confidential, but I can assure my hon. Friend that the members of this committee are fully conscious of the great importance of the problems with which they are concerned and are giving them their constant and urgent attention. Their work covers a great variety of subjects, and if there are any specific points on which my hon. Friend wishes to have further information, I would suggest that he should put down Questions to the Ministers in charge of the Departments concerned.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that what is wanted is the creative idea? Does he not further realise that a constructive and comprehensive policy for agriculture is the one thing above all else which this country needs, and that there is no indication of this at present? Does not the agricultural policy of the Government resemble a rudderless ship at sea, not knowing where it is going or what to do next?

How long will it be before agriculture in this country is in as good a state as it was at the beginning of the war in 1914?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is, in many parts of the House, a desire to discuss problems which are not solely connected with the Ministry of Agriculture but also embrace the jurisdiction of the Minister of Food? Is it possible for us to have a Debate which will embrace the jurisdiction of more than one Minister, in which the right hon. Gentleman could answer for the agricultural and the food policy?

I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman should put that question to the Prime Minister.

Then I put it to the Prime Minister. Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it would be advisable to have such a wide Debate as I suggest?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will await the statement on business.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the quantities of lime and basic slag provided at cheap rates since the Government scheme began; and whether he is satisfied that adequate facilities exist for the transport of these and other fertilisers at the present time?

:Up to 24th February applications for contribution under the Land Fertility Scheme have been received in respect of approximately 4,030,000 tons of lime and 1,120,000 tons of basic slag. As regards the second part of the Question, I am aware that the heavy strain on transport facilities at the present time is causing some delay in the movement of fertilisers, and I am in consultation with my right hon. and gallant Friend the Minister of Transport on the subject.

Do those particulars cover Scotland as well?

Yes, Sir I think they do.

Is the Minister satisfied that there are adequate supplies of basic slag to meet spring demands?

Yes, Sir. I think there are.

Are not a lot of wagons used for this purpose which ought to be used for carrying coal?

asked the Minister of Agriculture what facilities are available at the present time for the rebuilding and repair of farm buildings so far as finance, materials and labour are concerned?

Loans for the purposes indicated can be obtained from the Lands Improvement Company, the Agricultural Mortgage Corporation, and from banks or other sources, but under the Defence of the Realm Regulations the granting of such loans by public bodies is restricted to purposes certified by the Ministry to be either essential from the point of view of agricultural production or otherwise in the national interest. As regards materials, supplies of imported softwoods are restricted and can only be released for work that is essential and when substitutes cannot be used. A licence from the Ministry of Supply must be obtained for the purchase of any considerable quantity of structural steel. Other materials can generally be obtained without difficulty. There should be no difficulty at present in obtaining an adequate supply of any type of building labour through the Employment Exchanges.

Have any applications been received by the Minister's Department for sanction to rebuild or improve farm buildings; secondly, at what rate of interest can money be borrowed for the carrying out of the work?

I think I need notice of those questions.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will consider the appointment in an honorary capacity of a Member of the House of Commons as feeding-stuffs adviser for British agriculture, in view of the precedent established by the appointment of the hon. Member for Harrow (Sir I. Salmon) as honorary catering adviser to the British Army?

The two cases are not parallel, and in view of the expert advice on feeding-stuffs already available, I am not convinced of the advantages of an appointment of the nature proposed. I am of course, always glad to receive advice and suggestions for dealing with the many difficult problems connected with feeding-stuffs either from my hon. Friend or from any other hon. Member.

:Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware of the vital national importance of feeding-stuffs, and is he not further aware that given someone who would do the job without fear and without favour, it would be an advantage?

asked the Home Secretary the amount of salary and expenses paid, respectively, to each Civil Commissioner and Assistant Civil Commissioner for the first six months of service or the latest date, and for those who have refused a salary the amount of expenses paid in each case?

The maximum annual rates of salary payable to Regional Commissioners and Deputy Commissioners are £2,500 and £1,000, respectively, and to District Commissioners and Deputy District Commissioners £1,000 and £750, respectively. It was left to the individual Commissioners to decide what remuneration, if any, they should accept within the maxima allowed. A number of them have wished to give their services without accepting any salary; while others, who have given up their ordinary occupations in order to undertake these duties, have not been in a position to give their services without remuneration. In these circumstances it would be invidious to invite comparison between those who are able to do this work without remuneration and those who have found it necessary to accept a salary; and I do not think the House would wish me to enter into any further particulars of the amounts paid to the various Commissioners. As regards expenses, the Commissioners in receipt of a salary may claim repayment of their expenses at the appropriate Civil Service rates, and those not receiving salaries may claim repayment of out-of-pocket expenses incurred in the course of their duties.

May I ask whether this money is paid out of the Secret Service funds, whether I shall have an opportunity of raising the issue on any Vote, and whether, if the money is paid from Secret Service funds, it comes under the usual rules of Secret Service fund?

I thought the hon. Member would be aware that the money is paid under an Act of Parliament which was passed shortly after the outbreak of war. As far as I remember, the very question which the hon. Member has raised was debated on the Second Reading of the Bill.

Does this mean that no hon. Member is entitled to know how much is drawn by the various individuals from these funds, and is it so secret that hon. Members may not know and tell the people of the country what these men are getting?

No, Sir.

Is not this a very pertinent question—

rose.

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. Am I not entitled to get to know how public funds are disbursed, and what certain individuals are getting for various kinds of political organisation?

The hon. Member is entitled to a reply to his Question, but he is not entitled to take up five minutes of Question Time.

There are plenty who take up more than five minutes. I will put the Question down in another form.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education what is the amount of the Government grant paid in the last recorded year to education authorities for air-raid precautions; and how much more would have had to be paid if the percentage of grant had been the same as that paid to local authorities on their general air-raid precautions expenditure?

Inasmuch as local education authorities generally did not begin to incur expenditure on air-raid precautions until the current financial year, it will not be possible for some months to give the hon. Member the comparative statistics for which he asks.

May I ask whether negotiations are going on with the local education authorities on the question of this grant, and will my hon. Friend give an assurance that he will give sympathetic consideration to a request for a substantial increase in the grant?

I understand that negotiations are shortly to take place over a much wider field.