asked the Secretary of State for Air whether, in view of the urgency of having a second aerodrome established at the earliest possible moment in Northern Ireland, he will give instructions that work on this aerodrome will be proceeded with at once in fulfilment of the repeated promises given during the past months?

I regret that it would not be in the public interest to add to the information given in my reply to the hon. Member on 23rd May.

Is my hon. and gallant Friend aware that several months ago an additional aerodrome was promised to be placed on a suitable site, that afterwards another site was prospected and a promise made that, if found suitable, an aerodrome would be erected thereon, and that, so far as is known, no steps have yet been taken to implement the promise made?

In reply to the question as to whether or not the matter has been abandoned, I can assure my hon. friend that it has not, and it would not be in the public interest to say anything beyond that.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that booklets advocating birth control, and giving many details of sex problems unsuitable for children to read about, are being sent through the post in open envelopes; that grave anxiety is being caused to parents by this procedure; and whether he will make it illegal to send such pamphlets through the post other than in sealed envelopes?

I am aware that booklets relating to these matters are sent through the post in open envelopes and that complaints occasionally arise. The transmission through the post, whether in open or sealed packets, of booklets couched in indecent or obscene terms is already prohibited and any new booklet brought under notice in this connection is examined, in case restrictive action may be necessary. The adoption of the suggestion in the last part of the Question would require legislation.

Has my right hon. Friend taken specific action in the case that I sent to him last week, which was drawn to my attention by the workers themselves?

The case which my hon. and gallant Friend has sent to me is now under consideration.

Cannot we put a stop to pamphlets during the war, as was done during the last war, in order to save paper?

asked the Postmaster-General whether Members may be granted the privilege of priority telephone calls from their constituencies when dealing with Departments on urgent Parliamentary or national matters?

Owing to the heavy priority demands which are being made on the telephone service al the present time, it is essential to impose a rigid restriction on the use of the priority facility and, in the circumstances, I regret that I cannot extend the privilege of making priority calls in the manner suggested by my hon. Friend. If, however, hon. Members should find it necessary to make any individual calls of urgent public importance, they should have no difficulty in obtaining early connection if the position is explained to the supervisor.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that firms engaged on direct Ministry of Supply contracts have this privilege of priority, and surely it is reasonable that, if a Member takes up some particular complaint or difficulty which firms are experiencing, he should have that privilege on that particular occasion?

As I have explained, individual cases of public importance can be dealt with, but the House will appreciate that the more priority facilities are extended in number the less valuable they are.

Will my right hon. Friend tell me how the Member is to obtain that particular privilege?

Yes, Sir. If there is any case which an hon. Member feels to be of sufficient national importance, he should ask for the supervisor at the exchange and say, "This is a matter of importance," and explain who he is, and then facilities will be granted in every possible way.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that many wounded soldiers are in hospitals at a great distance from their homes; and whether he will take steps to transfer cases which entail no danger to the soldiers to the hospitals nearest their homes and thus enable wives and relatives to visit them at much reduced expense, and in many cases where the expense cannot be met from the allowances paid them?

In the circumstances in which most of these soldiers arrived in this country, it was not possible to distribute them to hospitals according to the location of their homes, and transport and other difficulties make it impracticable to arrange transfers except for medical reasons. When patients are well enough to travel by ordinary conveyance, they are sent on leave and instructed to report at hospitals near their homes.

Will the hon. Gentleman remember that many of these wounded men who are located in the West and are far from their homes in the North and that the expenses of travelling are greater than the allowance received?

I think the expense of travelling is partly met.

Will the hon. Gentleman remember that many of these men are not able to get home because the hospital refuses to help them by transport in any way? Will he see that the ambulance service is properly used, because in certain cases that I know of vehicles have been standing idle?

I will certainly look into that point.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many wives and mothers of wounded soldiers are unable to visit their relatives in hospital because the reduction in fares is nothing like enough? They cannot afford it, and will he consider a further reduction in these cases?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether a free, or reduced-priced, railway ticket is granted to the wives of British Expeditionary Force wounded officers to enable them to visit their husbands in hospitals, where these are at a distance from their homes; and, if so, will he state the concession made regarding price and distance to be travelled?

For visits to an officer in hospial, his wife and his children under 16 years of age can use concession vouchers enabling them to make the double journey at single fare. When the officer is dangerously ill, a free travelling warrant will be allowed for two relatives if they are unable to afford the cost of the journey.

Does that apply to other ranks as well?

This Question addressed itself only to officers, but it applies to other ranks as well.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will arrange that there shall be at least one public wireless set in all main-line railway hotels and others frequented by troops on leave or passing through, in order to ensure that any urgent Government instructions to troops may be brought to their notice without delay in the event of other means of communication being disorganised?

The method of issuing instructions has received careful consideration, but my hon. and gallant Friend will perhaps agree that it would not be advisable to make a statement on the subject.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will exercise a liberal discretion in regard to the medical histories of ex-warrant and non-commissioned officers who served in the last war and are yet well able and anxious to serve their country at this time; and whether he has any statement to make on the subject?

Men who served in the last war may be accepted up to 50 years of age for the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps and for Home Defence Battalions, and up to 57 years of age for instructional duties, provided that they are physically fit for active work.

Is the Minister aware that this matter is causing very great concern to members of the British Legion throughout the country, and my own branch in Greenock in particular, and does he recognise that these men have qualifications to train although their medical qualifications, in the eyes of the War Office, are not A1? Will he do something in connection with the matter to allow their ability to be used for the good of the country?

I do not think I can add anything to the answer.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he can yet make any statement as to the possibility of sending children and mothers to Canada and the United States of America; and whether the names of those who wish to go should be sent to him for registration, together with their ability to make any financial contribution?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether, in considering the question of the evacuation of children from the United Kingdom to Canada and Australia, consideration has been given to the possibility of including French children in the scheme?

This and other questions relating to the same subject have been considered by the Committee mentioned in my answer yesterday to the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Mr. Cocks). My right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal proposes, with the permission of the House, to make a statement on the whole subject at the end of Questions, and I would ask the right hon. Member to await that statement.

The Inter-Departmental Committee set up to consider offers from the Dominions, the United States and elsewhere for the reception of British children overseas has presented its Report, and the Government has adopted it as a basis for approach to the Dominion Governments. The Report will be published forthwith, and copies will be available in the Vote Office this evening. An executive body to be called the Children's Overseas Reception Board will immediately be established with the necessary secretarial staff to administer the scheme in this country. The Chairman of this Board will be the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, who will answer all Questions in Parliament in connection with the operation of the scheme. He will be assisted by an Advisory Council composed of persons with experience of the problems involved. Lord Snell has consented to act as Chairman of this Advisory Council, and the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Pensions have also agreed to serve on the Advisory Council.

His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom are deeply grateful for the generous offers received from the Dominions and elsewhere to maintain and educate for the period of war children sent out from Great Britain. The Government consider the establishment of the necessary machinery for the operation of the scheme to be a matter of the utmost urgency. Preliminary discussions have already taken place with representatives of His Majesty's Governments in the Dominions, and I have every confidence that the consent of those Governments and complete co-operation in the scheme will be forthcoming at an early date.

May I ask whether, whatever the limitations of the Dominions scheme may be, the American offer will possibly include children under five, mothers and old people, whether the American offer is to take children without any payment, and whether the American Government have now been approached by the Government as have been the Dominion Governments?

Perhaps the right hon. and gallant Member will look at the Report first of all, to see what has been done.

But the Report does not deal with America. Cannot my right hon. Friend tell me whether America has been approached?

The Report does cover the United States as well.

Will the Minister get into touch with the Fairbridge Farm Schools, which are very experienced in migrating children?

That has already been done.

Will some arrangements be made whereby those who wish to migrate their children to America and Canada, and cannot at present do so because of the exchange difficulties, although they are prepared to pay the money themselves, may be able to do so?

That is also dealt with.

What experience of children have the people who have been appointed?

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us something about the nature of the Advisory Council? It is very important that this body should be a businesslike body with experience of the migration of children.

As the Advisory Council cannot possibly be an executive body, may I ask in whose hands the executive power will be placed?

The executive power is in the hands of the Government, acting through the Minister. I have not yet set out all the names of the Advisory Council, because not all the appointments have yet been made. I have merely indicated certain of the appointments.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see that a woman with experience of children is appointed on the Advisory Council?

I will bring that point before my right hon. Friend.

I gather that an Advisory Council, of which some names have been mentioned, is to be set up, but is there also to be an overseas reception board which is to be entirely run by the Government with representatives of shipping companies and voluntary organisations and people with knowledge of the subject?

I thought I made it clear. I gave the name of the chairman and certain members, but, of course, the Advisory Council will include people with experience of such problems. That is what I stated.

As this is far too big a question to be discussed across the Floor of the House by question and answer, will my right hon. Friend give us an opportunity of debating the report when it is produced?

Of course, the hon. and gallant Member can raise this question again at a proper opportunity, and doubtless he will do so when he has received the report.

Under what Supply Vote will this come?

The Dominions Vote.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that Gunner Peter Dykstra, No. 933434, Royal Artillery, has had his right foot blown off and now only receives 9s. 9d. per week pension; that he gave his widowed mother 40s. per week before joining up; and what action does he intend to take to make a more adequate pension allowance?

The hon. Member is under a misapprehension as to the facts. Mr. Dykstra is at present receiving pension at the total disablement rate, and will continue to receive this rate until an artificial foot has been fitted and he is judged to be in a condition to use it. The rate of 9s. 9d. referred to is that judged to be appropriate to the estimated permanent disablement.

Is it not a fact that this man is receiving only 9s. 9d.?

No, Sir. He is not; he is receiving 32s. 6d.

Would the Minister kindly see whether this man is receiving that money, because I have not got that information?

On a point of Order. Is it not a gratuitous waste of time of the House to have these individual cases brought forward when, as has been admitted in the House, the facts of this case were not known to the hon. Member who raised the Question and could have been obtained by writing to the Minister?

Further to that point of Order. I have the facts from the man's home in my pocket now, so that it is not a gratuitous waste of time.

I have often dealt with that point of Order before. It has always been the practice in this House that Members can bring cases of local or individual personal interest to the notice of the House at Question Time.

May I suggest that the hon. Member sees me after Questions?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will introduce immediate legislation making the possession of a licence compulsory before any individual can purchase any prismatic compass, or any form of sight-aiding glass other than spectacles, such as binoculars and telescopes?

My right hon. Friend agrees with the object which my hon. and gallant Friend has in view, but he is informed that the Ministry of Supply have not only absorbed the entire manufacturing capacity for these instruments, but have also purchased from dealers all available stocks of binoculars and telescopes which are suitable for Army use. In these circumstances no useful purpose would be served by attempting to control their sale.

asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the shortage of steel, he will consider taking control of the supply of shelters, etc., by private firms?

The object which my hon. Friend has in view is already achieved under the Steel Control set up by the Ministry of Supply. Steel for air-raid precautions purposes can now be obtained only under specific authority of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Home Security.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the approximate number and total value of private fortunes in Great Britain in excess of £10,000 and £20,000, respectively?

No, Sir. I regret that the information is not available.

Have the Government any intention of levying a special contribution on these fortunes for the prosecution of the war?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Labour what measures are being taken, in the factories and workshops under his control, to care for the health and welfare of the young persons employed at these places; and, in particular, the increasing number of young women in employment?

Detailed measures for the health and welfare of persons employed at factories are required under the Factory Acts. These are supplemented to a considerable extent by voluntary action by employers and others, and my right hon. Friend is developing a special organisation, which includes a central Factory and Welfare Advisory Board, for promoting, with the assistance of the Factory Inspectors and other local officers, further action for the welfare of the employés outside as well as inside the factory. My right hon. Friend was assured yesterday of the support of a large number of voluntary organisations which are interested in this matter.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Labour whether he is aware that there are thousands of skilled engineers who desire to make a greater contribution to the national effort, many of whom are working pre-war hours; that many of these men have applied for permission to leave in order to start at firms where men are feeling the strain of continuous overtime and have been refused; that some firms engaged on urgently required equipment are not on continuous working; and what steps are being taken to ensure maximum production by using skilled experience to the best advantage, avoiding strain and encouraging the workpeople in their effort for the nation?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement made on 22nd May by my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal as to the establishment of the Production Council and local organisations based on area boards to deal with the regulation of labour supply. The Labour Supply Committees are beginning to function, and a staff of inspectors of labour supply has been appointed. The immediate duties of these bodies will include a survey of the labour position in their areas and the arrangements for transferring workpeople from one factory or job to another as required to secure the best use of available labour. Skilled engineers at present engaged on nonessential production who want to transfer to armaments work should give their names and addresses and occupations to the local Employment Exchange, but they should not leave their present employment until asked to do so. I have no information that permission is being refused to men engaged on less essential work to leave their employment for work of national importance. If my hon. Friend has knowledge of such cases, perhaps he would be good enough to send me particulars. I would also refer my hon. Friend to the reply I have just given to the hon. Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths) on the subject of the health and welfare of workers.

In view of the fact that the answer is totally unsatisfactory, will the Parliamentary Secretary ask his right hon. Friend to consult the Minister of Supply and the Minister for Aircraft Production as soon as possible because of the uneasiness which is finding expression in the engineering industry? Further, will he as soon as possible see that all the available skilled labour is utilised in order that the nation can get the best possible results and that three shifts are worked in the case of the most needed equipment, and aircraft production?

I need hardly say that my right hon. Friend is in constant touch with the Minister of Supply and the Minister for Aircraft Production, and is most anxious to meet all the demands that are made.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary any information to show that in some factories engaged on essential production the men are not fully employed? Is that matter being immediately investigated?

That is a matter which is not a concern only of the Minister of Labour.

Is not the question of the full utilisation of our labour resources in munition factories a question for the Minister of Labour?

It is a question in which the Minister of Labour has a close and important interest, but it is a matter which also concerns other Departments.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary see that these Ministries do not work in watertight compartments and that there is more liaison beween them, so that results may be obtained more quickly?

There is no question of the Departments working in watertight compartments, and the Production Council is in constant session.

Is the Minister aware that there are thousands of skilled engineers doing insurance work in the country? Does he not think that these men should report to the Employment Exchanges throughout the country?

I hope that the Question and the Supplementary Questions will draw further attention to this matter.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will, in war-time, apply the same rules regarding the efficient conduct of the war to senior civil servants as to military commanders and will consider retiring or transferring to other positions all high civil servants who were specially associated with the policy which has resulted in a deficiency of tanks, aeroplanes and other weapons of war?

No distinction exists in the treatment accorded to military and civil officers where any question of efficiency is concerned. As my hon. Friend is aware, and as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister had occasion to point out to the House on the 6th June, responsibility for policy rests not upon officials but upon Ministers.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that often the efforts of a Minister may be hampered by civil servants who have been trained in the old school of circumlocution and delay?

The answer to the hon. Member is that if a Minister finds that his orders are not being carried out, he has his remedy.

Arising out of the original answer, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we shall never get on with this job unless there is a ruthless cutting away of the dead wood in the Civil Service?

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider some scheme of unification for all the existing organisations engaged on war work and national service, dealing with the recruitment and enlistment of women throughout the country, with a view to ensuring greater efficiency and co-ordination?

Every effort is made to co-ordinate the activities of organisations engaged in recruiting women for the various branches of national service. I am satisfied that no further special measures are necessary.

Is it not true that while many of these organisations are doing excellent work, it is also true that there is a great deal of overlapping and competition? Would it not be very desirable to have compulsory service for all women up to a certain age?

I do not think so.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the same inefficiency exists in other organisations and that there is no real co-ordination between the services?

asked the Minister of Transport why the Grampian Electric Supply Company are allowed to continue work on their extensive schemes in the districts of Dalwhinnie and Laggan, having regard to the length of time that must elapse before these schemes become productive; the large number of skilled men employed; the quantity of material used; and the need for skilled men and material in the production of essential war munitions?

I have looked into this matter, and I am satisfied that the work is fully justified.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he will give orders to organise a house-to-house collection and requisition all scrap-metal, commandeering for this purpose the transport services of the local authorities or their contractors, without further delay?

Most local authorities, acting on recommendations from my Department, are already making house-to-house collections of salvage, including scrap metals, using for this purpose their transport services. The Iron and Steel Control have launched a village dump scheme through the rural district councils to collect scrap metal in the country districts. The question of issuing an Order or Orders for the fuller organisation of house-to-house collections and the requisitioning of scrap metal, including the use of the services of local authorities and others, is now being considered in consultation with the Advisory Committee of Members of Parliament, and I hope to arrive at a decision thereon shortly.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the desirability of local authorities being compelled to take this action in regard to scrap metal?

That is a point which is under consideration, and I expect to reach a conclusion upon it soon.

May I ask whether the demolition squads which exist throughout the country and which have the transport necessary, could not be used for this purpose while idle and doing nothing?

That is a matter upon which the views of the Civil Defence authorities will have to be considered, but I will see that the point is looked into.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are tons and tons of scrap iron and metal available but that local authorities are taking no steps whatever to collect it?

That is rather a sweeping statement.

It is true.

It may be true of some authorities, but in any case I am giving the matter consideration.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ask local authorities to organise a scrap-metal week in their areas?

I will consider that point.

asked the Minister of Supply what offer of iron railings he has received from the London Inns of Court?

The London Inns of Court are already taking steps to release non-essential railings for scrap purposes, and I am in communication with them as to the arrangements for disposal.

Will the Minister take into consideration the question whether scrap railings should be kept for the purpose of hostilities?

asked the Minister of Supply whether he has received any information about the three-ton German gun that stands on Westerham Green, Kent; and whether the gun will be melted down for munitions?

No information has been received in respect of the German gun on Westerham Green, but local authorities have been invited to offer such guns for scrap purposes, and I have given instructions for the local authority to be approached with a view to the gun being removed.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that on the lines of the organisation of kitchen waste collection in the boroughs of Tottenham, East Ham and West Ham, about one ton of excellent animal feeding-stuffs per week is obtainable from the dwellings of every 6,000 of the urban population; and whether he will take steps to organise this source of supply on a national scale before effect is given to the proposal that two-thirds of the pig and poultry industries of this country should be destroyed?

I am aware of the activities of the boroughs referred to in the collection of kitchen waste for stock feeding, and am in close touch with the arrangements proposed by a firm in Stratford, with the concurrence of the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries and my Department, whereby such waste, together with collections from other districts within a radius of 10 to 15 miles, would be treated for the production of feeding meals. A conference on the subject with representatives of boroughs in the London area has been held, and I am giving consideration to the possibility of developing similar arrangements in other parts of the country so far as suitable plants are available.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take into consultation the authorities in the rural areas?

Yes, Sir; so far as they can function in the organisation they will be consulted.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on collectors' carts in West Ham there is a big basket at the end in which to collect all the tins and cans?

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned "other parts of the country" in his reply. Has he Scotland it view?

asked the Minister of Supply whether he will have a survey made, in South Wales and elsewhere, of the buildings formerly used as tinplate and sheet-works with a view to their adaptation for use for production and storage?

An investigation is at present being made into the position of the sheet and tinplate works in South Wales which are not in operation and which are not likely to be required as such during the war. The investigation also covers a number of small plants working much below capacity. When the results of the investigation are available, consideration will be given to the question of the adaptation of these works for other production or for storage. A number of such buildings have already been inspected, and steps will be taken at an early date to obtain the use of such as are suitable and required for storage.

asked the Minister of Supply what changes have been carried out in area organisation that will tend to secure the maximum production in the minimum of time?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which was given yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Parker) to which I cannot yet add anything.

Is the Minister aware that the spirit of determination of the people was never greater and that they are getting concerned because that spirit of determination is not being harnessed to secure the maximum results?

I think my hon. Friend need not be apprehensive on that point. My spirit of determination is as great as that of anybody else.

asked the Minister of Supply whether there is a national and local system of processing and fixing of delivery dates; is there a national and local check kept on the maintenance of delivery dates, or what machinery functions to deal with these problems; and is he satisfied with the efficiency of that machinery?

Progress on contracts is watched, both at headquarters in the several production branches, and locally through the area organisation and progress officers.

asked the Minister of Supply whether the fee of £221,400 payable to the British Metal Corporation for' managing the non-ferrous metal control was for the period ending 31st December, 1939; and the number of months' service rendered by that date?

The Non-Ferrous Metal Control was set up at the beginning of the war, and the annual fee of £220,750 is payable for the first year of the war, that is, from September, 1939, to September, 1940.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he will invite the hon. and gallant Member for Hertford (Sir M. Sueter) to sit upon all committees under his Department investigating tanks or dive-bombing, in view of his experience in the last war?

There are no Ministry of Supply committees investigating dive-bombing. As regards committees on tanks, I am well aware of the experience of the hon. and gallant Member for Hertford (Sir M. Sueter) in the last war. I think, however, that it would be unreasonable to expect me to limit the exercise of my Ministerial discretion to the extent of giving a pledge that one person should be a member of all committees on one subject.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I was only asking for the hon. and gallant Member for Hertford to be on one of these committees? Will the right hon. Gentleman consider putting this eminent expert on some valuable work? Why is he excluded? Why not get the best man?

I am always ready to consider all suggestions, but the responsibility for selection must rest with me, and it is not a matter with which I can deal across the Floor of the House.

Has my right hon. Friend been in contact with the hon. and gallant Member for Hertford and asked for his views on the possibility of the contribution he could make in these difficult times?

No, Sir. I have been devoting all my attention to the reorganisation of tank production. That was the first thing to receive my attention. I have every respect for the knowledge and experience of the hon. and gallant Member for Hertford, but I can assure the House that if I saw everybody who has great knowledge of tanks, I should do very little else.

asked the Minister of Supply on what grounds Sir Alexander Gibb and Partners have been appointed as consulting engineers and agents to his Ministry; and what are the conditions of their appointment and the fees to be paid them?

Sir Alexander Gibb and Partners were employed last autumn as consulting engineers in respect of three specific factories only. They were selected because they were regarded as being the most suitable firm for the work. Messrs. Gibb will receive an annual fee of £15,000 in addition to the approved expenditure incurred by them.

Is the Minister aware that there is grave concern in the engineering world on account of this appointment? With all respect to the competence of the firm, would it not be a good thing if the Minister would cause to be removed from their letter-heading the statement that they are appointed consulting engineers and agents for the Ministry of Supply?

In respect of these particular factories that would be true, but if the letter-heading has a wider implication, I will certainly consider the point. The hon. Member will appreciate that the appointment was made some time ago. I have no reason to believe it was a wrong appointment, but I will give consideration to the point to which the hon. Member has drawn attention.

In view of the fact that the workpeople of this country have been asked, and are willing, to make very great sacrifices, will the Minister bear in mind that the publication of figures of the sort he has mentioned does cause grave concern?

I have published the figures because the hon. Member asked a Question on the matter. The Question being asked, I do not think I had any right to refuse to answer it. Certainly, the point which the hon. Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths) has mentioned is a relevant one. Of course, these are fees for highly specialised professional services, and I understand they are in the region of what is usually paid. I will keep in mind the point he has made.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the working classes of this country, the miners, for example, are sacrificing customs that have been established for hundreds of years, and are dismayed when other people are paid such fees?

That is a fair point. This is an appointment which I did not make myself, but one must face the realities of the position all round. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that those other considerations are relevant.

It this a full-time job?

It is a very big job. It is the building of three very big factories that will run to a very high cost.

asked the Minister of Supply whether, in view of the fact that the names of controllers of all departments have been published, he will give his reasons for not publishing the names of the chief scientific men employed in his Ministry, together with the names of their departments?

As I informed my hon. Friend on 12th June, the detailed information for which he asks could not be published without giving an indication of the lines of the war-time research programme, but I am prepared to give him the information privately.

Will the Minister consider how impossible it is for people to be able to appreciate with whom they should communicate on these points if they do not even know the people responsible for the various Departments concerned? There is nothing private about this.

Anybody knows that he can communicate with the Ministry of Supply, and the communication will be passed on. I must remind the hon. Member that the Question he asked me was a highly indiscreet one, in which he wanted information that would give the enemy knowledge of the general lines of our research. This research is exceedingly secret, and I, at any rate, must exercise a proper sense of responsibility.

Will the Minister realise that I have no desire to ask for information that would give help to the enemy? Quite the contrary. What is desired is that the names should be known so that people would know that the departments are being managed by the most competent persons.

Certainly, I would not accuse the hon. Member of any such desire. I was only giving him advice.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that in a firm of linen and damask manufacturers in Northern Ireland, having 600 looms and over 300 making-up machines, only 10 per cent. of the looms are being utilised by, and not a single making-up machine is doing work for, his Department; and whether, in view of the urgent need at present for such materials as this firm can supply, he will make use of their resources to the fullest possible extent?

I am not aware of the identity of the firm in question. Speaking generally, however, it is not possible in existing circumstances, owing to the shortage of flax and the consequent necessity of using substitute materials, to keep linen manufacturers fully employed on Government orders.

Will the Minister take into consideration their position and give them as much work as possible?

I have very great sympathy with the hon. Member's point, but the position is that really there is no immediate use for this type of product to the extent indicated.

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

This new Clause deals with certain aspects of excess profits taxation. The House will remember that when we discussed it on the Committee stage I gave an undertaking to take into consideration a number of suggestions that were made then. I stated that I was impressed with the case that had been put in relation to companies working wasting assets. On further consideration of the matter, I had to admit that a case had been made out for allowing a higher percentage upon the capital of concerns engaged in obtaining minerals, oils, or similar natural wasting sources. In such cases the return on the capital must provide, over the life of the wasting source, for the amortisation of the capital expended on the undertaking. This is particularly necessary at the present time because the wastage of such assets during the war has been and will be accelerated by the demands made on industry for increased output, and this, of course, inevitably affects our natural resources. The Government have recently made many requests in cases of this kind which have been responded to by the concerns affected.

This new Clause will affect two classes of percentages on capital. The first is the 6 per cent. and 8 per cent. laid down in Clause 27 of the Bill in relation to the application for a substituted standard where the profits of the standard period are very low. The second is the statutory percentages of 8 per cent. or 10 per cent. on capital prescribed in Section 13, Subsection (9) of the Finance (No. 2) Act, 1939, as amended by Clause 31 (2) of this Bill. I think it is right to weight the allowance for this particular factor and to provide for a ceiling of the ordinary rate plus a further rate of 4 per cent. It is true that under the provisions of the new Clause the Board of Referees might, in theory, grant the whole of the additional 4 per cent. in any case that comes before them. I suggest that it would be much more likely that, although the maximum addition to be made in the most extreme type of case might go to that extent, the Board will grant additions of 1, 2 or 3 per cent. in cases of this description. It is for the Board of Referees to decide whether an application is made by a body of persons who can claim to represent any sufficient part of a trade or business, and they will decide whether an application can be made in general terms or whether individual application will have to be made. On the last occasion the Committee agreed with me that this was a case that I should meet. I have considered the other cases, but this is the only one which is not met by other provisions in the Bill. It is, I think, a fair and reasonable concession to make.

Those of us who have been connected with the mining industry are wary about this proposal. I well recall that at the end of the 1926 stoppage in the coal industry, when we made new wages agreements, we had to discuss a re-arrangement of the ascertainment of wages, and the question of what permissible costs apart from wages were to be set off came under consideration. The question raised by this new Clause was then brought forward, and the claim was made that, because the mining industry was engaged in obtaining a wasting asset, that coal was being worked and that some day it would be worked away and all the capital sunk in it lost, therefore the owners were entitled to claim an amortisation allowance. I would remind the Chancellor that that claim was closely argued. In the end it was withdrawn in some areas, the owners being convinced that a claim had not been made out, but where it was not withdrawn it was submitted to independent arbitration and turned down.

I would ask the Chancellor to give further consideration to this question. Those of us who are connected with the mining industry want to see the owners given the same fair play as everybody else, but we do not want to see, and we shall not stand for, profits being made out of the mining industry in this war on the scale on which they were made in the last war. In company with my colleagues in South Wales, I attended a conference last Saturday at Cardiff at which the miners were asked, and willingly and enthusiastically gave, a pledge to do their utmost in the national interest at this time. They were asked to give up things which they valued very much. The South Wales miners were asked to work on a Sunday night, and that was asking them to do something against their religious instincts. They were asked to give up practices and customs, and they agreed to give them up willingly because they believed they were thereby doing a service to the nation. A personal appeal was made by my hon. Friend the Secretary for Mines. We were asked, "If the miners respond to this appeal and put forward their best effort, are we sure that that effort is being made for the nation and not for the profit of individuals?" We replied, what we all understood to be the case, that the profits of the coal mining industry would be subject to the same provisions as other industries, and that there would be 100 per cent. tax on all excess profits.

What is the position in which the Chancellor is placing us to-day? Under this new Clause the mining industry may be able to get more favourable terms and extra profits. That is the meaning of it. They will be able to go to the tribunal and say, "We are working in the mining industry, engaged upon what is a wasting asset and therefore we are entitled to an increased rate of dividend, to something over and above what is going to other industries." It is not merely the coal that is a wasting asset; the life of the miner is a wasting asset, and when men are asked to speed up in the pits it means that they are being asked to take greater risks. We are not merely speeding up production but speeding up danger. I would speak frankly and say that this is not the time to give the mine owners greater profits.

What does the hon. Member mean by mine owners? Does he mean royalty owners?

I understand that this provision does not apply to royalty owners. We settled the royalty owners a long time ago, and they have no claim. I ask the Chancellor to consider the point of view I have put forward, because it is not a service to the nation but a disservice to give the owners of coal this augmentation of profits. We know what the position is now. We know that profits are being made, far too large profits. Why should the owners be allowed to make this appeal? It is an appeal which has been turned down before. It is something they have tried in wages ascertainment negotiations for many years past. As it has been turned down in that connection why should the Chancellor admit the claim now? The Chancellor said that representations had been made to him about the matter. In days like these, when we want national unity, it should have occurred to him that in a matter of this kind, having regard to the agreements existing in the mining industry, the men's representative should have been con- stlted. In the wages ascertainment arrangements, first of all the prices realised for coal are ascertained and then there is set off against that sum wages costs and costs other than wages. Therefore, proposals of this kind vitally affect the wages of the men. Was any consideration given to the question of consulting the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain? The Financial Secretary to the Treasury was for years Secretary for Mines, and in considering this problem he must have had in the background of his mind his knowledge of the mining industry and its problems. Why should not the Mineworkers' Federation be consulted? It has quite as much right to be consulted as have the mine owners. Therefore, I ask the Chancellor to withdraw this Clause. In the interests of the nation we have asked the miners to give everything for the nation, and they will do so, but if it goes out from this House that we are giving the mine owners more profits, that will undermine anything that we are doing.

I do hope that my hon. Friends opposite will not think that I am speaking on behalf of property or anything of that sort. I take an entirely different view from that which I was so very sorry to hear put forward by the hon. Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths). I would remind him that during recent years the mining industry has been working under Government schemes. All bon. Members opposite know this. Those Government schemes have been introduced under the Coal Mines Act for the reason that the mining industry, and particularly the export section of it, has been a depressed industry. The mine owners, I mean the working owners, the lessees, have been controlled by sales schemes and all sorts of things, and in the depressed sections of the mining industry, as hon. Members opposite know very well, there has been a constant carrying forward of deficits on wages ascertainments, particularly in Durham and South Wales.

rose—

No, let me put my point. I want to put it fairly. Hon. Members also know that as the war approached and since the war has started the mine owners of this country have been called upon by the Government to make superhuman efforts to increase production in order to increase the export trade.

So have the miners.