asked the Minister of Economic Warfare what further reduction in the total number of staff has been effected as the result of the reorganisation of the work of his Ministry?

Between 15th May and 16th July the staff has been reduced from 1,550 to 1,022.

Is the Minister satisfied with that reduction?

I do not think that a reduction of 34 per cent. in two months is too bad.

Has there been any diminution in the efficiency of the Minister's Department which deals with such important questions?

I hope that the reduction of staff will always be subject to the maintenance of economic warfare to the most effective degree possible.

asked the Minister of Economic Warfare whether it was on his instructions that the heads of the various Departments in his Ministry were recently asked by an officer of his Department to state to which political party they belong?

Such an inquiry, officially addressed to public servants, would be most improper. No such inquiry has, of course, been made in my Ministry on my instructions. Since, however, the hon. Member has seen fit to place this Question on the Order Paper, and has thereby made himself responsible for allegations regarding my officers, I have had an investigation made and find, as I anticipated would be the case, that no head of a department in my Ministry has been asked any such question. The hon. Member's allegations are, therefore, completely baseless.

I do not want this schoolmaster attitude. It does not cut any ice with me. But while I accept the right hon. Gentleman's statement—and I am very glad that he has been able to give that assurance—he must not be too sensitive in matters affecting his Department when criticisms are made, as he used to criticise previous Ministers.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider the appointment of a committee similar to the Geddes Committee, with full authority to investigate the staffing of all existing Ministries; the findings of the Committee to be published at an early date?

My hon. Friend will be aware that a Select Committee on National Expenditure was appointed by the House on 12th December last, to examine expenditure on services connected with the war and to report on economies. The investigations of this Committee covered staffing matters in all the principal Departments, and reports have been, and will, I have no doubt, continue to be, made.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the decisions are arrived at on documentary evidence, whereas a committee on the lines of the Geddes Committee, as favoured by many prominent personages outside this House, would be able to visit the various Ministries and see for itself?

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what steps have been and are being taken to introduce commercial methods of administration into the Departments of State which are now engaged, as a result of the war, in large-scale commercial activities?

Departments keep under constant review the improvement of their administrative methods. There is in addition a special Treasury Investigating Section, the staff of which has been substantially increased since the beginning of the war by recruitment from outside the Civil Service: its main activities are directed to giving Departments expert help in matters of organisation.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will issue instructions that the use of paper will be confined to a minimum in transmitting orders to, or demanding reports from, units of the Local Defence Volunteers?

Instructions have recently been issued for all possible economy in the use of paper and in the volume of returns called for in respect of all Army units and establishments. These instructions will apply to Local Defence Volunteers.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that Local Defence units have neither typewriters, typists, pens, ink, nor paper except those supplied by themselves, and that therefore this suggestion particularly applies to those units?

The hon. and gallant Member cannot be more anxious than I am to reduce the amount of paper that the Army is called upon to use.

Is the Minister aware that an ordinary Regular battery has to make no fewer than 25 returns per day?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider issuing a suitable number of Mills bombs to every police barracks in the country for re-issue in emergency to duly accredited members of the local community?

Armed resistance to invasion is a matter for the Armed Forces of the Crown, including the Local Defence Volunteers. I am not prepared to make any public statement as to the measures in contemplation or under consideration

While I see my right hon. Friend's point of view, will he re- call that the Prime Minister stated last week that everyone in this country was now in the front line; therefore, is it not essential that those in the front line should be suitably armed?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the possibility of interference with normal communications in this country, he will consider authorising the issue of telephones, portable radios and motor-bicycles or cars to all group headquarters of the Local Defence Volunteers?

Telephones have recently been authorised for group headquarters of the Local Defence Volunteers. I am not prepared to make a public statement as to any arrangements which may be necessary in regard to the use of motorcars, motor-cycles or portable radios.

If my right hon. Friend is not prepared to make a public statement, will he send me a private statement?

I will gladly give my hon. and gallant Friend any information that he desires.

Why should the hon. and gallant Member know any more than anyone else?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will take into sympathetic consideration the applications for the issue of a medal to ex-Servicemen now serving as Local Defence Volunteers who served in the last war and joined the Colours in 1914, but who, for reasons over which they had no control, were not drafted overseas?

As my hon. Friend is, no doubt, aware, the decision not to grant a medal for home service in the last war was reached only after the fullest consideration and it is clearly impracticable for me to re-open the matter now. To give a medal for home service in the last war only to those who serve in the Local Defence Volunteers in this war would, as I think my hon. Friend will agree, be inequitable and illogical.

Can my right hon. Friend not give some sort of distinction to these ex-Servicemen of the last war who are now doing such admirable service with the L.D.V.? They would naturally feel at a disadvantage compared with the new persons coming into that organisation?

Would my right hon. Friend also bear in mind that ex-Servicemen of the last war are also serving with the regular army in this war?

The ex-Servicemen gained that distinction for their services in the last war, and we are happy to have their services again.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that these men were prevented from going overseas because of the organisation of the. Army? Why should they be deprived of some decoration?

Will it not be time to hand out medals on a large scale when we have won the war?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether the title of "Local Defence Volunteers" is to be changed to "The Home Guard"?

It is proposed to submit for His Majesty's approval an Order in Council giving the Local Defence Volunteers the title "The Home Guard." Armlets will be adapted as convenient to the initials "H.G."

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make a full statement on the organisation of the Local Defence Volunteers; their numbers and the provision of equipment; the method of selection of officers; whether sections are being formed by works and colliery managers and in such cases who is responsible for the selection of men; why applicants in certain areas must submit their names to the British Legion; whether men are allowed to join solely for the purpose of guarding works or collieries or are available for general defence purposes; and whether he is in a position to say what the general state of efficiency of this organisation is?

I am glad to have the opportunity of making this, statement. The Home Guard is a voluntary unpaid part-time force having its origin in the desire of patriotic citizens engaged in ordinary civil occupations to make some active and voluntary contribution to defence, especially to the defence of their own localities. The object of the force is to augment the local defences of Great Britain by providing static defence of localities and protection of vulnerable points and by giving timely notice of enemy movement to superior military formations. The force has been assigned a definite role in the defence plans of the country and its value lies not in the individual action of its members, but in proper co-ordination with the other parts of the military machine.

The organisation of the Home Guard is under the control of the War Office. The Commander-in-Chief, Home Forces, exercises operational control and is responsible under the direction of the War Office for the training of the force. Under the War Office and General Headquarters, the chain of command and organisation is through the Army commands and military areas. At the headquarters of each area commander there is an officer holding the appointment of Home Guard area commander whose duty it is to supervise the Home Guard in the area. Area commanders have the benefit of the assistance of an honorary organiser. The military areas are divided into zones and into groups as necessary and thence into battalions, companies, platoons and sections.

The local administration of the force is conducted by Territorial Army Associations. Appointments in the Home Guard are made by those holding the higher appointments. Battalion commanders and upwards are appointed by area commanders. Sections are being formed in works and collieries: the men register at their works and the registration forms are then deposited in bulk at the nearest police station before the men are enrolled by the company commander. There is no necessity in any area for applicants to submit their names to the British Legion. Men are allowed and encouraged to join units for the purpose of defending industrial undertakings when these are of sufficient importance to justify the diversion of men and arms from the defence of the locality as a whole. Many such units are being formed, but they normally form part of the local Home Guard organisation. Their use in schemes for the defence of their factories is under the general supervision of the military authorities and their members are in all respects members of the Home Guard.

Hitherto there has been no fixed establishment of the force, and the response to the appeal for recruits has been so magnificent that its strength already exceeds 1,300,000. It has therefore been decided temporarily to suspend in the near future recruiting except in those districts where strengths have not yet met immediate requirements. This decision will enable provision of equipment for all accepted volunteers to be pressed forward: it is already sufficient to ensure that the Home Guard shall play the part allotted to them efficiently, but it is not complete. The breathing space thus afforded will also enable commanders to assess their requirements more accurately and to remedy any defects in the organisation which may come to light. The suspension of recruiting is a temporary measure, and applicants may continue to register at their local police stations, but after recruiting is suspended they will be put on a waiting list and will not be enrolled or form part of the local defence forces until vacancies occur or recruiting is reopened.

As to the general efficiency of the force, disparities are inevitable in a force of over a million and a quarter men which has been raised and officered in a period of little more than two months. But rapid progress has been made with organisation, training and the allocation of duty to units. The Home Guard area commanders are responsible for this and should be consulted when doubts or difficulties arise. I am satisfied that in equipment, in efficiency and above all in fighting spirit the Home Guard are a valuable addition to the Armed Forces of the Crown and a formidable reinforcement to national security.

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that his answer will give general satisfaction both in this House and in the country, but will he direct the attention of area commanders to what he has specifically said about the appointment of local commanders and also to what he said about the British Legion, because there are many complaints coming in to which I shall direct his attention by letter?

Did I understand the right hon. Gentleman correctly in his description of the duties and scope of the force? Did he omit from the duties of the Home Guard the duty of guarding and fighting for the home?

No, Sir. I think that was very much implicit in all that I said. As regards what the hon. Member for Sea-ham (Mr. Shinwell) said, there are, of course, bound to be teething troubles, but I am very glad of the opportunity which this Question has provided of showing how very valuable this force is to the nation at the present time.

What arrangements are being made for medical care for these men when on duty?

Certain arrangements have been made. Perhaps the hon. Member will put down a Question.

As it is clear that a battalion commander of the Home Guard will be responsible for a command of 1,600 men, would it be possible to provide him with a full-time adjutant drawn from the Regular Forces?

That problem is also under consideration, but this is a volunteer force, and we ought to be very careful to guard that spirit.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider issuing gum boots to the Home Guard?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is now in a position to say what action he proposes to take with regard to the case of Mr. James Bostock, group commander of the Stafford Local Defence Volunteers?

As the result of my hon. Friend's previous Question, I am in communication with the Home Guard authorities concerned, and I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as my inquiries are complete.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that I brought this matter to the attention of the War Office some days ago; that it is the case of a man who had six years in the Territorials, who responded to his broadcast appeal the following day, has been in charge of 800 men, and was summarily dismissed? Will he give the matter his immediate attention, because it is causing great dissatisfaction?

It is because my hon. Friend brought this matter to my attention that I made inquiries, but I must allow the local authorities time to make their report.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will give instructions to the military authorities for the utilisation of the unemployed men in Northern Ireland, so far as that is practicable, for the perfecting of its defences against all enemy attacks?

When extra men are needed either by contractors or for direct employment by the military authorities on defence works, they are obtained through the Employment Exchanges, and this has the effect of providing work for men who might otherwise remain unemployed.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a great deal of work which these unemployed men could do if they were given the opportunity?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make arrangements for soldiers' dependants' allowances to be paid through the Post Office on Fridays instead of Mondays, in view of the difficulty created by the present arrangements?

A considerable number of different types of payment is made through Post Offices, and these have necessarily to be spread throughout the week. I understand that the General Post Office would have difficulty in making a change from Monday to Friday in the case of Army family and dependants' allowances.

Is the Minister aware that many housewives have found great inconvenience with the present arrangements, because certain traders will not give credit over the week-ends? This makes it very difficult for them, and will the right hon. Gentleman give this matter further consideration?

From the Army point of view, I should be quite willing to agree with the change, but the question of whether it can be arranged is a matter for the Post Office authorities.

I will put down a Question to the Postmaster-General.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the payments of dependant's allowance to a wife is completely stopped if a soldier overstays his leave by four days; and whether, in view of the grave hardship resulting from such action by the regimental paymaster, he will consider giving instructions that complete stoppage should not be made in such cases, but that either a reduction in allowance be made over a period or that the allowance be paid in full and a deduction made from the soldier's future pay?

When a soldier has absented himself without leave, the position is not the same as when he has forfeited pay but remains with the Colours, and, in the case of such absence, I do not think it is reasonable to expect that any payments which are being made in respect of his services should continue to be admissible. The rule in such cases is, however, that payment to the wife is not stopped until absence has extended beyond seven days. It is then discontinued until the soldier rejoins. The over-issue in respect of the days of absence, during which payment was made to the wife, is recovered by reasonable instalments from any future payments to the wife in respect of family allowance, and from the soldier's pay in respect of the allotment made to her from that source.

Has the Minister received a case which I brought to the notice of his Department yesterday of a woman who wrote to say that when her husband returned from France he overstayed his leave for four days and that she has not had a penny?

I am afraid I cannot keep all these matters in my head.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that wives of men in the Gloucestershire Regiment who have been posted as missing have had their allowances reduced by amounts varying from 8s. to 3s. 6d. per week under a regulation that the voluntary allotment in excess of normal qualifying allotment ceases four weeks from the Monday following notification that a soldier is posted as missing; and, in view of the fact that the financial commitments of the wives remain the same, will he withdraw the regulation which is causing serious financial hardship to the women concerned?

Family allowance and the qualifying allotment from a soldier's pay continue to be paid to his wife for a period of 17 weeks after he is reported "missing." In addition, during the first four weeks of this period, his pay and allowances continue to be credited to the soldier, and his wife consequently continues to receive any voluntary allotment which he has made to her. When the 17 weeks have expired, the wife receives an allowance equal to the pension payable if the soldier were dead.

My right hon. Friend has not explained how those women who have had their allowances reduced are to continue to live for the four weeks until their pensions are fixed. Does he not think that voluntary allotments ought to continue until the man's position is determined?

This is a very difficult question. In the case of the missing soldier found to be alive, the voluntary allotment is resumed and all the back amounts are paid. If my hon. Friend has a case in mind, I shall be glad to look into it.

I have more than one.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the Prime Minister's appeal to all well wishers from all parts of the world who are not subjects of His Majesty to give us their utmost aid, he will, so soon as there is equipment to spare, proceed with the formation of a liberty legion, composed of true men, regardless of origin, who would volunteer to fight for the cause of Britain, and for this purpose take the preliminary steps now?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has yet taken the preliminary steps to form a Foreign Legion, which anti-Nazi aliens now interned might be permitted to join?

I am happy to be able to inform the House that good progress is being made in organising a number of formations of citizens of foreign countries who are fighting with us in the common cause. French, Polish, Czech, Dutch, Norwegian and Belgian units are all in process of reorganisation and re-equipment and we greatly value the aid they will give us. As regards internees, steps are now being taken in conjunction with the Home Office to decide which of the men now interned can be discharged from internment for enlistment into special companies of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the historical significance of the statement which he has just made and the tremendous satisfaction it will give to countless thousands of men?

Does the last sentence of the reply mean that those friendly aliens who are now interned will be allowed to enlist in the British Army, or a Foreign Legion, or some other body?

My right hon. Friend has strictly interpreted it.

Does it mean that Austrian and German internees now in Canada will be able to join?

That, I do not know.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that you cannot trust any Boche at any time?

Does the reply mean that there will be a cessation of the shipment from this country to Canada of those internees who are able to serve?

Not necessarily. This deals only with a specific class of internees as a result of steps which we are taking with the Home Office.

Does it mean that men whose parents are resident in this country, who enlisted in the British Army and have been interned, will be liberated?

I should like to see that question on the Paper?

Is it not true that some aliens who went to Canada through a mistake must be brought back?

That is not a matter for me.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will give in- structions that whenever a soldier goes on leave he should be given an adequate ration allowance before leaving his unit?

Instructions have been issued that soldiers going on leave are to be paid ration allowance at the appropriate rate in advance.

Is it obligatory in all cases?

Yes, Sir, certainly.

Will it date back for those who have not had it?

I cannot give back rations to soldiers.

I do not ask this Question, but I hope, nevertheless, that no obstacle will be put in the way of any legitimate marriage.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that considerable numbers of members of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps are in camp with nothing to do, while in other parts of the country civilians are being paid high wages to do pioneer work under the direction of Royal Engineers; and will he give instructions that all such unemployed units should now be engaged on essential defensive works?

My hon. Friend is probably referring to members of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps who, on return from the British Expeditionary Force, became separated from their units, and were put into various camps until reorganisation could be effected. The companies have now been re-formed and have all been allotted to duties in this country The majority are already at work.

Does that mean that my right hon. Friend recognises the impropriety of a substantial number of the members of this Corps being idle when important defence works are urgently required?

I do realise that, but there was an inevitable period of disorganisation after the return from Dunkirk. That period is now over, and these companies are now at work.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is satisfied that adequate measures have been taken for the defence of the industrial Midlands against the possibility of any troops landing in substantial numbers from troop-carrying aeroplanes?

It would not be desirable to make any public statement about details of our defence schemes. My hon. Friend will, I hope, accept my assurance that we have taken all protective measures that are practicable.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in certain areas, which I will not specify, there are still many fields not protected?

This is a difficult cross-examination, for if my hon. Friend cannot specify them, I cannot recognise them.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that British subjects until recently resident as civilians in France have been able to secure commissions in the British Army within a short time of reaching this country whilst ex-officers in this country have been waiting the grant of a commission for some months; and whether applicants for commissions who join the ranks because commissions have not yet been granted will thereby be precluded from receiving commissions for which they have applied?

I am not aware that any undue preference has been given to candidates for commissions who have lived in France. Applicants for commissions who join the ranks are considered for commissions under the same conditions as their fellow soldiers.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in order to allay apprehensions, he will arrange for representatives of some independent responsible organisations to visit at regular intervals all refugee internment camps in this country, and report to his Department on any problems which may arise?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has now received a report of the conditions in the refugee and prisoner of war camps?

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware of the hardships caused by the numerous arrests recently made of male aliens between 60 and 70 years of age, most of whom have lived in this country for many years; and does he intend to have an early review of the reasons determining these internments so that these elderly people may be permitted to return to their ordinary duties?

asked the Home Secretary whether it is intended to release those refugees now in British internment camps whose loyalty and patriotism to this country are beyond doubt?

asked the Home Secretary whether he is now in a position to make any statement with regard to the policy of the Government in relation to aliens?

My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has been asked to reply to Questions Nos. 11 and 15, and he proposes to answer together these two Questions and Nos. 72, 73 and 78. With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and by the leave of the House, he proposes to make a full statement on this subject at the end of Questions; and perhaps my hon. Friends will await that statement.

As the House is aware, the policy adopted at the outbreak of war was to examine by means of local tribunals and regional advisory committees all cases of Germans and Austrians and to intern only those about whom doubt was felt after such exam- ination. This policy resulted in the internment of a very small proportion of the large numbers of Germans and Austrians in this country. After the invasion of Holland, Belgium and France, and with the knowledge of what had happened in those countries, it was necessary to reconsider the position in the light of the military situation here, and for the reasons explained by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary in the Debate on 10th July, it was decided that a policy of general internment must be adopted. That decision was to me a matter of great regret but I take responsibility for it as necessary and indeed inevitable. In giving effect to such a policy provision must always be made for suitable exemptions, and while there can be no question at the present time of reverting to a position in which the internment of men of enemy nationality shall be the exception rather than the rule, it is clear that further examination will be likely to disclose in a number of cases circumstances justifying the release of individuals interned in pursuance of the general policy.

The recent instructions for the internment of Germans and Austrians who had been placed in the C category provided for the exemption of those falling within certain specified descriptions. Retrospective effect will be given to those instructions, and steps taken accordingly for the release of such of the persons interned earlier under general directions as would have been exempted had the recent instructions been in force at the time. There have been cases of mistake in interpreting instructions which necessarily had to be carried out under a great sense of urgency. In particular persons have been interned who should have been exempted on grounds of ill-health or infirmity. These mistakes must be rectified with the least possible delay. Consideration must also be given to the question of enlarging the categories of exemption to include particularly those who can render services of special value or make a significant contribution to the war effort. I propose as soon as possible to publish a full statement of the categories of persons eligible for exemption and of the procedure to be followed in making applications for release.

To assist me in dealing with this problem of the control of aliens of enemy nationality, I have, with the authority of the War Cabinet, decided to appoint a small advisory committee. I am glad to say that Sir Herbert Emerson and Major-General Sir Neill Malcolm, whose work in connection with refugees is well-known, have consented to serve on this committee, and I hope to appoint as chairman someone who has had experience of high judicial office. The terms of reference of this committee will be:

(i) to keep under review the application of the principles laid down in regard to the internment of enemy aliens and to make to the Home Secretary such suggestions and recommendations thereon as they think fit;

(ii) to advise the Home Secretary on such proposals for modifying the internment policy as he may refer to them from time to time; and,

(iii) to examine, awl make recommendations upon, such individual cases or groups of cases as may be referred to them from time to time by the Home Secretary.

I have also to inform the House that the Government have decided to transfer to the Home Office the responsibility for the welfare of those aliens who are interned. At the time when it was necessary to make rapid arrangements at short notice for the custody of large numbers of persons, it was essential to make use of the military organisation for this purpose. No other organisation could have coped with this task, and a tribute is due to the commandants and staffs of the camps for the efforts made by them to alleviate the position of the large numbers of prisoners for whom they had to make provision. But as my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for War said in the House on 10th July, it should not be the business of the Army to look after civilian internees, and while the War Office must continue to be responsible for providing the necessary camps and the service personnel to guard them, the Home Office is now to be responsible for managing the camps. The selection of aliens to be transferred overseas will also be a responsibility of the Home Office. The necessary executive crganisation for the discharge of these responsibilities is being set up with all speed.

So far, I have dealt mainly with the problem of aliens of German and Austrian nationality. The same arrangements will, however, extend so far as applicable to Italians, among whom there are of course few or no refugees. To complete the picture, I have to announce the appointment of an Advisory Council which will be attached to the Refugee Department of the Foreign Office and will be concerned with questions affecting aliens of many nationalities in this country, including the nationals of countries which have been overrun by Germany. This council will contain representatives of a wide range of interests, and one of its functions will be to advise and assist the Home Office in the arrangements to be made for the welfare of those detained in internment camps, and to make recommendations upon the problem of finding occupations for them. A full statement of the functions of this council will be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT. With the assist ance of this council and of the advisory committee to which I referred earlier, rapid progress will, I am sure, be made both in arranging for the release from internment of many Germans and Austrians who can properly be set at liberty, and in promoting the welfare of those whom it is necessary for reasons for which they are not responsible to keep in internment. Recognising that large numbers of them are anxious to help this country, it is the desire of the Government that everything possible shall be done to alleviate their position, and in particular to ensure that internment shall not involve conditions of enforced idleness.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the statement which he has just made misses the whole point? Instead of having categories to be left out of unjust imprisonment, there should be categories to be retained in imprisonment. May I ask him whether he has read the leading article which appears to-day in the "Evening Standard" by Michael Foot, which embodies the opinions of nine out of ten Englishmen?

I am certainly well aware of the point of view which has just been put by the right hon. Gentleman. As regards the last part of the Question, I have had occasion to read many leading articles of late, and I have noticed remarkable inconsistencies in articles published in the same journal over the last few weeks.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, in view of the importance of his statement and the wide interest which will be taken in it, he will facilitate an opportunity being given to the House for the discussion of some aspects of it? The right hon. Gentleman in his statement referred to Germans and Italians. May I ask, as a matter of detail, whether in the term "Italians" he would now include Albanians, and also whether Czechs, Poles, Rumanians, and other nationalities who are not hostile to us but at present are in concentration camps will have the privilege of having their cases considered by means of the machinery just announced?

Yes, Sir. As far as persons of nationalities other than German and Italian are in internment camps, the arrangements which I described in the early part of my statement will be applicable. As regards the question of aliens generally, and in particular alien refugees, all matters affecting their interest and welfare will be within the scope of the larger body, the council, to which I referred in the latter part of my statement.

May I ask whether the very generous statement which the right hon. Gentleman has made will be brought to the notice of internees who desire release or to the notice of their relatives; and, secondly, whether the welfare Advisory Council which the right hon. Gentleman is setting up will see that regular visits are paid to the camps so that representations can be made to him on any problem which may arise?

It is certainly contemplated that visits should be paid to the camps by or on behalf of the Advisory Council to which I have referred. As regards the question of bringing the substance of what I have said to the notice of those who may be affected, all necessary steps will be taken to that end. As I said in the course of my statement, the conditions under which exemptions may be claimed and details of the machinery which is to be provided for dealing with applications, will be published at an early date.

Will this committee be prepared to give priority to men of over 60 years of age? Some of these have already been interned and have had to be released because of ill health. Many of them have lived in this country for 50 years and have sons fighting in the British Army and it seems ironical that they should be interned.

That, I think, is rather a question of detail. I think the hon. Gentleman will find that it is specifically covered by the statement which I have made.

Will the right hon. Gentleman have inquiries made as to the conditions obtaining at Huyton Camp, near Liverpool?

Yes, Sir. I have already had inquiry made.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for an answer which, in my opinion, goes a very long way to meet the grievances expressed by hon. Members on this subject? May I ask him to bear in mind that speed is the essence of dealing with this problem, and that to-day, the internment of C category aliens is continuing? Will he do his best to see that the examination of these cases takes place as quickly as possible and that the committee gets to work at once, because a large number of individuals have now been suffering for a long time?

In view of the fact that these investigations are bound to take a considerable time, will the right hon. Gentleman do his best to afford facilities to those internees who have businesses—sometimes with employés who are British subjects—and who have had no means, up to the present time, of providing their employés with wages or keeping the businesses going? Will the right hon. Gentleman take such steps as are possible to enable people in that position to keep in touch with persons who are managing their affairs, in the interests both of themselves and of their employés?

I will certainly see what can be done in that regard.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us that the speed of decision which he has promised will apply particularly to those categories of C aliens who have been sent to Canada and who, it is now recognised, were sent there in error and who are releasable persons?

It might be convenient if a question were put on the Paper on that subject. If so, I shall be glad to give a reply. The point has not been overlooked.

Will the wives of refugees be given some information immediately about the welfare or whereabouts of their husbands who have been taken away? For several weeks, some of these people have been in doubt as to where their husbands are or what has happened to them.

I am very anxious indeed to facilitate speedy communication between internees and their families.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider adding to those whose release he is willing to consider, certain categories which are not at present included? A large number of refugees who have given undoubted proof of their sympathy with this country do not come within the rather narrow range of categories to be considered for exemption.

I did provide for that in my statement. May I repeat what I said, that consideration must also be given to the question of enlarging the categories of exemption.

rose

I do not think we can discuss this matter any further.

On a point of Order. It is most important that we should know whether we are to have an opportunity of debating this question before we part with this, our only opportunity of dealing with it by Question and Answer in this House. If there is to be no opportunity for debate, I am sure Mr. Speaker, you will give us some further opportunity of obtaining answers to our Questions.

Hon. Members cannot go on asking questions about it all day.

On a point of Order. May I ask whether I can ask a Supplementary Question?

I thought the hon. and gallant Member would help me to bring this to a close.

On a point of Order. I recognise the necessity of not continuing this too long, but there is one important and extremely urgent aspect of this matter which has not been mentioned so far.

I do not think this is the time for putting any further questions on the subject.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he is taking steps to impress on the Dominion Governments that B and C categories of internees sent, or being sent, to their Dominions are neither criminals nor hostile to this country, but victims of, or refugees from, Nazi oppression; that they should be kept distinct and separate from prisoners of war and hostile aliens; and that reasonable facilities should be allowed for communication between them and friends or relatives in this country?

Steps are being taken to send to the Dominion Governments concerned detailed particulars relating to any internees sent from this country. The Dominions are parties to the Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners of War, 1929, and intend to apply that Convention generally to civilian internees.

Does the hon. Member not recognise that these internees are not prisoners of war, and that what most disturbs them is the assumption in some quarters here, which is liable to be translated across the Atlantic, that they are criminals? Will he not make an announcement on this point?

The Dominion Governments appreciate these points, as the United Kingdom Government do. In fact, the B and C categories are separated from the others.

Will the hon. Gentleman not say so to the Dominion Governments?

It is done.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Karl Obritisch, youngest Member of Parliament of the Weimar Republic and a Czech anti-Nazi refugee, was on board the "Arandora Star"; whether he was saved; and why he was deported?

No internee with the name given in the Question is traced as having been on board the "Arandora Star." The list contains a Karel Olbrisch, a category A German, who is reported "missing."

Is not that the same man?

No, Sir; the name is spelt differently—Karel Olbrisch—and I understand he was born as Essen.

Has the right hon. Gentleman a full list of those who were on board the "Arandora Star," and of those who were saved and those who were lost?

A list is being compiled and will be made available in the Library of the House as soon as possible.

As I was promised a week ago that this would be available, can the right hon. Gentleman say when it will be made available?

Probably to-morrow.

Is any attempt being made to follow up the numerous cases of substitution which it is understood took place?

That question is being dealt with later.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he can now make any further statement as to whether the Germans and Italians on the "Arandora Star" were all Nazi sympathisers?

In view of the allegations that have reached me, instructions have been issued that immediate inquiries should be made into all the circumstances of this case. A further statement will be made to the House as soon as the inquiries are completed.

Will that be within a few days?

I cannot promise that, because a great many matters are being looked into, but there will be no undue delay.

Will that statement include any information as to who was responsible for the drafting of particular individuals to the "Arandora Star"?

Yes, Sir, that will certainly be one of the matters to be inquired into.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will request the representatives of the War Office on the board of management of the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes to make inquiries into the conditions of the staffs at canteens, the wages paid, the hours worked and the sleeping quarters; whether he will also ask for a statement of reserves at the disposal of this organisation, the amount of surplus refunded to units and the reason why service men cannot be supplied with tobacco and cigarettes at Navy, Army and Air Force Institute canteens on a rationed basis and at cost price; and whether, in view of the importance of this organisation to the forces, he will take steps to exercise a larger measure of control?

I am not aware of any reason for calling for the inquiry suggested in the first part of the Question, but, if my hon. Friend has any specific case in mind to which he thinks attention should be drawn, perhaps he will let me have particulars. The reserves and the surplus refunded to units are shown in the annual accounts, copies of which are placed in the Library. I will send my hon. Friend a copy of the latest report. As regards tobacco and cigarettes, I am informed that, after allowance is made for duty, expenses and rebate, there is no margin for any appreciable reduction. Further, there are obvious objections to selecting one particular commodity for special treatment. As regards the last part of the Question, I am satisfied that the control exercisable by the Service Ministries by means of the machinery indicated in the Articles of Association of the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes is adequate to secure the conduct of the organisation in accordance with the best interests of the Services.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that this important organisation, which is ancillary to Services in an important degree, is not in any way controlled by this House and that its accounts are not subject to examination? Will not the right hon. Gentleman give the matter his personal consideration? is he aware that I have several letters dealing with the first part of the Question which I shall be happy to send him?

I shall be glad to see those letters.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, although the accounts are available to hon. Members in the Library, they are not presented to the Public Accounts Committee and, therefore, there is no meticulous examination?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Select Committee on Expenditure are inquiring into the organisation and finance of the Institutes, and will he help them in their inquiries?

My right hon. Friend may be assured of that.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this organisation is reported as having made a profit of £100,000 last year, and does not that mean that prices are unduly high for serving soldiers?

My hon. Friend will appreciate that this organisation remits its profits in certain forms to those who provide them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of recent events, he intends to alter the definition of North-East of Scotland areas as neutral areas for evacuation purposes?

Certain changes in the Government evacuation scheme have recently been made, but it is not in the public interest to give particulars.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this is not so much a question of evacuation as of the provision of adequate air-raid defences, especially in the matter of anti-aircraft guns?

That is not the Question on the Paper. But I would point out that there is a number of other factors to he taken into consideration.

Can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that in view of the circumstances in this area, which has suffered considerably, it will be definitely declared as a neutral area and not an area for the reception of children?

I can give the assurance that the situation is being watched from day to day.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the policy of the formation of silent columns, of the regulation relating to the spreading of gloom and despondency, and the arbitrary arrest and release of British citizens is diminishing the bracing effects of his own speeches and broadcasts and belittling the loyalty and intelligence of the British people; and whether he will take suitable action in the matter?

The movement of forming silent columns was well-meant in its endeavour to discourage loose and ill-digested talk of a depressing character about the war. However, when this idea was put down in black and white it did not look by any means so attractive and seemed to suggest that reasonable and intelligent discussion about the war between loyal and well-disposed people ought not to take place. On the contrary, His Majesty's Government are glad that the general aspects of the war should be understood and discussed, provided that there is no breach, however inadvertent, of official secrecy, no precise references to the strength and disposition of our Forces, and no talk about future operations. This movement to create a silent column has, therefore, passed into what is called in the United States innocuous desuetude.

Upon the second part of my hon. Friend's Question, I would observe that we have been and are still passing through a most critical phase in the war, and that our Forces are now ranged and vigilant to strike at invasion. The House has accepted numerous regulations which, but for the gravity of the hour, would be extremely repugnant to all our ideas, and some of which might tend to encourage ill-natured tale-bearing and mutual suspicion in our midst. In the circumstances I have asked the Home Secretary to have every sentence imposed by the courts for loose or defeatist talk carefully and immediately reviewed, and that it should be reduced or remitted wherever it is clear that there was no evil wish, or systematic purpose to weaken the National Defence in the persons concerned. His Majesty's Government have no desire to make crimes out of silly vapourings which are best dealt with on the spur of the moment by verbal responses from the more robust members of the company. They desire only to curb, as it is their duty to do, propaganda of a persistent, organised and defeatist character. As these sentences come to be revised and their revision is made public, as it will be, the courts all over the country will have a good guide furnished them as to what are the intentions of Parliament and the requirements of the State in respect of these war-time regulations.

Is it possible for the Government to consider either withdrawing or amending this regulation?

No, Sir, I do not think so.

Was not this silent column campaign initiated by the committee to which I referred in my previous Question?

I am not aware of it, but even if it were the case, I do not think that I would be called upon to revise anything I have said.

Did not the Prime Minister give a most satisfactory answer?

asked the Home Secretary whether he will review the regional organisation in the light of experience gained, reconsider the appointments made by the regional commissioners, and place the organisation on a more democratic basis, bringing in representatives of men who have the confidence of the people; and, as the present areas are too large and the machinery functions slowly, will he have regard to the economic geographical areas if more decentralisation is decided upon?

While the Civil Defence regional organisation is under constant review, I am not clear what changes the hon. Member has in mind. No regional commissioners have yet made any appointments, and the method of appointment of officers of the regional staffs conforms with Civil Service practice. The size and boundaries of the various regions were settled after an exhaustive review of the needs of the various Departments and authorities concerned, and they have proved satisfactory in practice. The results to be achieved from any regrouping of the regions at the present time would not, I am satisfied, justify the expense and the dislocation of public business that would be involved.

asked the Secretary for Mines whether the local authorities will be permitted to purchase extra tons of coal during the next four months, and sell to local people during the winter months?

I am anxious to take full advantage of the readiness of local authorities to help in building up reserves of coal in their areas, and I think that they can do so most effectively and expeditiously by co-operating with my Department in laying down stocks on Government account. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the circular letter which I addressed to all urban authorities in Great Britain on this matter on 12th July.

asked the Secretary for Mines what steps he proposes to take to secure for the greatly increased population of Coventry an immediate and adequate supply of household coal to enable citizens to meet present needs and to lay in a winter stock where possible; and whether, in the interest of economic transport, he will put a stop to replacing Warwickshire coal, sent away from the district, by coal imported from other distant coalfields?

Very considerable stocks of house coal have already been built up in Coventry, and further stocks are being accumulated at a satisfactory rate. As regards the last part of the Question, I am doubtful whether the retention in Warwickshire of a greater proportion of local coal would effect any saving in transport, having regard to the longer rail haul from other producing areas to places which that district now serves.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that one large trading concern in Coventry has been able to supply only about 1 cwt. per customer during the last six weeks?

I am not quite sure that I identify that company, but the facts are that, in Coventry, distributors have sold at the rate of four times the ration which was laid down for the whole of the last winter, in addition to which the stocks have been multiplied nearly four times in the last two months.

Is the Minister aware of the facts of the case; that there are people who have had orders for coal for over five weeks and that one trading concern, at any rate, has not a spot of coal in the whole of its sidings?

If the hon. and gallant Member will send me particulars of that trading company, I will see that it gets its share of coal.

asked the Secretary for Mines what measures he has adopted or proposes to adopt to create dumps of coal for the use of small consumers in South-West London during next winter; whether he is aware that in many of these districts coal merchants and factors have insufficient space on their own property to store stocks of coal in order to supply these small consumers; and whether he will take steps to assist in this respect?

House coal is already being stocked on Government account at six sites in South-West London, and other sites are awaiting supplies.

Would the hon. Gentleman give the names of some of the places where they are stored?

I can assure the hon. Member that he knows of these places. They are situate in his own neighbourhood. I cannot oblige him with all the names or the quantities of coal stored.

asked the Secretary for Mines what applications he has received from colliery owners to assist in securing land for dumping coal in order to keep their collieries going; and whether he will take steps to secure from the landowner without undue delay the necessary sanction in order to keep the pits going and, if necessary, compel unwilling landowners?

I have had one such application. There has been difficulty and delay in obtaining from the colliery company sufficient information to identify the land proposed to be secured. The land has, however, now been identified, and negotiations are proceeding satisfactorily. So far, the need to use compulsory powers has not arisen.

asked the Secretary for Mines what steps are being taken to promote the expansion of our coal export trade in the South American countries; and whether it is proposed to provide special assistance to the export trade in this and other areas?

The Government are fully alive to the importance of maintaining and expanding coal exports to the greatest possible extent; and they are in consultation with the coal industry as to the methods by which this could be achieved.

asked the Secretary for Mines whether he is aware that, by reason of a delay in his Department, a breach of the Fuel and Lighting Order, 1939, by Messrs. Cutts and Son, of Peck-ham, was not effectively dealt with, although such breach was brought to the notice of the Mines Department by the local fuel overseer; and will he take such steps as will provide for the proper enforcement of the Order in similar circumstances?

I can assure the hon. Member that there was no avoidable delay in this case. After careful consideration, it was decided that the case would best be met by the issue of a warning letter to the firm concerned, informing them that proceedings would be instituted for any future infringement of the requirements of the Order.

Is the Minister aware that the reply to the local authorities suggests that prosecution is not undertaken, owing to the delay, and does he not realise also that the local authorities take great care to see that the law is properly enforced?

If any words uttered in this House could convey a further warning to those who are responsible for the violation of order, I would again warn them not to offend in a matter which is intended to serve the interest of the coal-consuming public.

asked the Prime Minister whether, with a view to retaining and increasing the many friends and adherents of this country on the Continent, he will give an assurance that the Government will develop, side by side with the old methods of diplomacy, a real economic and social diplomacy?

The advance throughout the generations toward a real economic and social diplomacy must be faithfully pursued as opportunity occurs.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the important point of the Question is that the diplomats of the future should have training as commercial attachés as well as on the old lines, because one is just as important as the other?

My reply to that point will be comprised within the somewhat wide scope of my original answer.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take care that we keep the friends that we have already, particularly France, and see that they get better propaganda?

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider introducing a scheme under which Members of Parliament only receive full pay if they attend regularly to Parliamentary business and are only absent for reasons of sickness, on Government business, or on service with the Fighting Forces?

The salaries of Members of Parliament are paid in pursuance of a Resolution of the House, and cannot be withheld by Executive decision. It is open to any Member who is unable, for any reason, to discharge his Parliamentary duties to refrain from drawing his salary. It is not considered necessary at present to ask the House to take any special action. Practically all the Members of this House are, unless they are engaged in other duties in relation to the prosecution of the war, carrying out their Parliamentary duties to the full.

asked the Prime Minister whether the committee appointed by his predecessor, under the chairmanship of Lord Swinton, to report to him suspicious political activities, is still in existence; who its members are; and whether it is now making any reports?

It would not be in the public interest to give any information on the subject covered by the hon. Member's Question.

As this committee was set up without any public announcement, and its purpose seems to be rather peculiar, would it not be possible to allay public suspicion by some announcement in regard to its activities?