asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the hon. and gallant Member for Wellingborough (Wing-Commander James) is still attached to the British Embassy in Madrid; and whether, in view of this gentleman's persistent refusal throughout the Spanish civil war to recognise the extent and danger of German and Italian intervention, he will reconsider this appointment?

The answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. Since he has been attached to His Majesty's Embassy in Spain, the hon. and gallant Member has rendered valuable services which my Noble Friend trusts he will continue to perform.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this hon. and gallant Gentleman, in the teeth of the most irrefutable evidence, continued to believe that Guernica was destroyed by the Spaniards instead of by the German and Italian planes?

On a point of Order. I would like to ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether the Chair has any power to prevent questions which are dangerous to the State?

asked the Prime Minister whether diplomatic or other action has been taken to meet the threat of General Franco's announcement in his address to the officers of his Army, Navy and Air Force, on 17th July, that it was Spain's duty to obtain command of Gibraltar and expansion in Africa?

There has, I think, been some misconception regarding General Franco's statement on this occasion. After a historical reference to the greatness of Spain under King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, he went on to refer to the political testament of Queen Isabella as including what he termed:

"the bequest of Gibraltar, the vision of Africa, and political unity; political bequests which, after four centuries, still endured as an eternal obligation."

Due note has been taken of this statement. But His Majesty's Government do not regard it as involving a fresh departure in Spanish policy. Accordingly no special action appears to be called for.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the importance attached in Rome to this and how the Romans have been glorying over the fact that if the Republicans had won the Spanish war Gibraltar would have been assured to Britain and Spanish minerals would have been safe for Britain?

On a point of Order. Is there any possibility of preventing these dangerous Questions? Is the hon. Lady aware that she is giving great publicity value to the Spanish Press?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will approach the French Government with a view to securing the release and safe passage to this country of any British subjects still in France or any refugees in this country who volunteered for military service and became attached to French units and desire to return to this country; and whether further repratriation of French citizens will be effected in relation to this arrangement?

His Majesty's Government are doing everything possible to arrange for the early return of British subjects still in unoccupied France who wish to come back to this country. The Vichy Government are, however, unlikely to respond to a request for the return to this country of refugees attached to French units, seeing that under Article 10 of the Franco-German armistice convention they are required to prevent members of the French armed forces from going abroad; and in the circumstances my Noble Friend does not consider that it would serve any useful purpose to approach them on the subject. As regards the last part of the Question, with the exception of certain persons whom it is thought necessary to detain here for the time being, French citizens wishing to leave the United Kingdom receive the same facilities as nationals of neutral States.

Could not the right hon. Gentleman propose some reciprocal arrangement by which British nationals of this country who desire to go back to France could be exchanged for British subjects still in France, and also for those refugees who were in this country and who volunteered to serve but who were actually posted to French units when they got to France?

There is the difficulty of Article 10 of the Convention. With regard to the first point, we are satisfied that there are facilities for British subjects to return here from France and for French subjects to return to France, but naturally the hon. Member's point will have proper consideration.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aircraft Production the name of the controller of aluminium in his Department, together with the salary paid to him?

My Noble Friend has not yet taken over the control of aluminium, and no controller has yet been appointed in this Ministry. It has, however, been arranged for transfer of the control to take place to-morrow, and no changes in the existing Ministry of Supply arrangements are contemplated. Under these arrangements the controller is the Hon. G. Cunliffe, who is in receipt of a salary of £1,350 per annum.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether the controller is able to distinguish between an aluminium pot sent to Lord Beaverbrook and one that comes from a scrap-metal yard?

Certainly. He has very great experience in these matters.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aircraft Production whether he has considered the advertisement, a copy of which has been sent to him, inviting overseas buyers to purchase stock of used aeroplanes and stating that there are over 100 aeroplanes from which to choose; and, as it is not desirable in the present emergency to allow aeroplanes to leave this country, and as such aeroplanes could be of service if only for training purposes, will he exercise his powers to prevent any export of either machines or parts of machines?

Yes, Sir, I have considered the advertisement to which my hon. Friend refers and have also procured a full list of the second-hand aeroplanes advertised therein. No aircraft or aircraft parts can be exported from this country without the authority of the Ministry of Aircraft Production, and I can assure my hon. Friend that permission is not, and will not be, given for the export of any aircraft which can be used to better purposes in this country than in the Dominions and the Colonies. A large number of aeroplanes in this country which are suitable for elementary training purposes have already been impressed.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aircraft Production what remuneration and allowances are being paid to the hon. Member for Wood Green (Mr. Beverley Baxter) for his services?

The hon. Member for Wood Green receives no remuneration in respect of his services to the Ministry of Aircraft Production. He is reimbursed the out-of-pocket expenses incurred in the performance of his duties.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will request the London Midland and Scottish Railway Company to stop making a compulsory tipping charge to sailors, soldiers and airmen using the dining-car services?

A minimum charge in lieu of tips is paid by all passengers using London Midland and Scottish dining cars, first and third, and I do not feel justified in asking the company to discriminate between them.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the Government are in an invidious position, inasmuch as they are participating in these things either by saving of wages or by the guarantee, or by sharing profits, and will he also take into account that fighting men cannot afford these charges?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have heard soldiers in a train complaining about having to pay 1s. 3d. for a bottle of beer, 3d. being the tip? Why should they have to pay the extra 3d.?

Is not the railway company being subsidised by public funds?

I do not know what a bottle of beer costs in a railway carriage.

A bottle of ginger beer then?

I will try to find out. What I do know is that in platform buffets there are discriminating, special rates for members of His Majesty's Forces.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also consider proposing to the railway companies that they should offer a lunch at less than half-a-crown, which, unfortunately, the soldiers cannot pay?

Yes, I am quite prepared to pass on that suggestion.

Will the right hon. Gentleman try to secure facilities for soldiers, sailors and airmen while travelling similar to those in the buffets?

asked the Minister of Information how many experts on the French situation are now employed on the preparation of British Broadcasting Corporation programmes in French; and how many hours a day programmes are broadcast by the British Broadcasting Corporation in that language?

The British Broadcasting Corporation employs a specialist staff of 12 concerned with the announcing and translation of news bulletins and programme material in French. Of the total number 10 are born Frenchmen. There are at present six 15-minute news bulletins, one half-hour programme and three quarter-hour programmes, making a daily total of 2¾ hours of exclusively French broadcasts. Of this time General de Gaulle and his organisation, with the approval of my Ministry, contribute a five-minute period each day under the title, "La France Libre." In addition to the purely French broadcasts, three hours of programmes are presented every day in both English and French.

While thanking the Minister for his reply, might I ask him whether it is not the fact that for considerable periods of the 24 hours there is no special expert on French affairs on duty, and, in view of the very vital importance at the present time of doing everything we can to persuade the French that our cause is just, will he look into that matter further?

I fully appreciate the importance of the hon. Gentleman's suggestion, and I will consider it.

Have there been any broadcasts about love, unity and fidelity?

asked the Minister of Information whether he is satisfied that the censorship department has effectively prevented all trading with the enemy by British nationals and residents; and whether he will consider again placing the department under the control of the military authorities?

The postal and telegraph censorship department is only part of the system for the prevention of trading with the enemy by British nationals and residents. I am satisfied that its function has been effectively performed. The reasons which led to the transfer of the control of the postal and telegraph censorship department from the War Office are still valid. The answer to the second part of the Question is, therefore, in the negative.

How many aliens are employed in this department?

I could not say without notice, but I do not think there are any.

asked the Minister of Information the number of women employed in censoring the articles of newspaper correspondents for British papers overseas; the salaries paid to them; whether they have had any experience of this type of work; and what are their educational qualifications?

There are 23 women in the department, which deals with the censoring of articles for British papers overseas. Their salaries are £4 a week or at the rate of £320 a year, according to grade. At least 10 have had relevant previous experience, although only two were censoring in the last war. All the censors in question have had a university education or have exceptional linguistic attainments.

Would it not be better to employ duly qualified people and pay them at an adequate rate?

It is difficult to define what are duly qualified people, because we do not do this work in peace-time.

asked the Minister of Information, for what purpose he has authorised persons employed by his Department to make a personal canvas of householders in different areas?

asked the Minister of Information the number of persons employed or to be employed by his Department for the purposes of personal interrogation of citizens; the salaries paid to these officials and by whom they were selected; and to what Departments is the information taken?

One of the main duties of the Ministry of Information is to keep as closely in touch as possible with public opinion, in order that the Ministry may find out upon what subject information is required. It is more difficult to ascertain public opinion in war time than in peace, but it is also more important. Of recent years, there has been a great development of scientific methods of testing opinion. Many organisations have been set up for this purpose, and have been made practical use of by commercial firms and newspapers.

The Ministry of Information, having made careful inquiries, decided many months ago to make use of such methods, by an organisation known as War-time Social Survey, which acts under the auspices of the National Institute of Economic and Scientific Research. The number of persons employed by War-time Social Survey on behalf of the Ministry is about 60, and the salaries paid to them are in accordance with the importance of the tasks they perform and are equal to those paid by the best type of mark research organisations. These officers were selected by Professor Arnold Plant, Professor of Commerce in the University of London.

Information thus obtained is transmitted to the Ministry of Information by means of statistical reports, and is forwarded to other Departments likely to be interested. In no case are names and addresses of persons interviewed divulged, either to my Ministry or to any other Department. I found this system in existence when I arrived at the Ministry, and there was, therefore, no need for me to confirm it, which I could certainly have done.

Has my right hon. Friend's attention been called to a statement recently made by his Parliamentary Secretary, that the function of these people investigating is to mix with people and listen to what they have to say? Does he appreciate the great resentment that there is at this wanton spying? Does he not think that public money would be better spent in another direction than in paying people for this kind of work in order to "fascinate" the Parliamentary Secretary?

This is not spying. This is a method which newspapers and commercial firms have been following in this country for the last 30 years in order to ascertain public opinion. There is nothing new about it, nor is it underhand or in any way connected with spying.

Will my right hon. Friend kindly answer my Question as to what are, in fact, the salaries paid to these people? Further, does he not realise that this waste of public money is one of the circumstances by which his Ministry is getting entirely out of touch with public opinion and making itself a laughing stock throughout the country, when it ought to be serving a more useful purpose?

Is it not the function of Parliament to represent public opinion.

What proportion of the 60 people engaged are women? [Interruption.] They find out a good deal more than men.

As to the salaries paid, I can circulate that information in the OFFIAL REPORT if my hon. and learned Friend so desires, but I can assure him that these salaries are in accordance with those paid by numerous similar organisations throughout the country to people carrying out this sort of work. As to whether Parliament represents public opinion, I would say that, of course, Parliament should represent public opinion all the time, but one of our difficulties at the present time is due to the fact that because—I am glad to say—of the lack of political party warfare and the usual clash of opinions, the holding of public meetings, and, above all, the holding of by-elections, and owing to the fact that there has been no general election for five years, it is not so easy to ascertain public opinion. There is a good deal that cannot be said in open Session or publicly advertised in the Press. For these reasons it is very necessary to pursue the usual normal methods of trade organisations, which newspapers have been pursuing for many years.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

In view of the fact that the salaries paid, which were asked for in the Question on the Order Paper, were not disclosed, and in view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

Too late.

asked the Minister of Information why he permits a gratuitous advertisement of the German wireless transmission in English to be printed in the newspapers daily in connection with the lists of prisoners in Germany; and will he devise a different form of publication omitting the origin of the information?

Newspapers were asked to publish the names of British prisoners of war announced on the German wireless with the express object of removing a reason which might naturally induce people to listen to that wireless. If the source of the information was not stated, readers might imagine that the accuracy of the lists was vouched for by His Majesty's Government, whereas this is not the case.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that there are many well-authenticated cases of anxious mothers continuing to listen in, with quite serious results? Is is not sufficient to use the term "German sources," without indicating that those sources are wireless sources?

I will consider that suggestion.

asked the Minister of Information whether he will issue instructions prohibiting the photographing of prominent local councillors, provosts or lord provosts, at military inspections of British, French or Polish soldiers, appearing in films in all parts of the country, as this gives away the location of units?

Films and photographs of troops which also contain photographs of lord provosts, provosts and other well-known citizens, when submitted for censorship, are carefully considered in consultation with the Service advisers. Their release for publication depends on whether the troops are in transit or not.

Might I ask the Minister to make inquiries with regard to a recent inspection of Polish troops? Is he aware that the presence of a prominent head of the local administration indicated where the inspection took place to many members of the audience in a different town?

I shall be very glad to consider that.

asked the Minister of Information why it was that the news of the bombing and sinking of the "Lancastria," and the story of the heroism of the British troops on board, was not published in this country until after it had appeared in the American Press?

asked the Minister of Information what were the reasons which caused him to withhold for five weeks the news as to the sinking of the "Lancastria"?

asked the Minister of Information whether he can explain why a request by the "Journal of Commerce," submitted on 24th June, to publish a paragraph on the sinking of the steamship "Lancastria" was refused; why, though the Minister promised to make a report on 2nd July, no report appeared until 24th July, when the American Press disclosed the facts; and is he aware that the attitude of the Ministry has caused bewilderment in Liverpool and in shipping circles, where the facts were known three days after the event?

The reasons for holding the news of the bombing and sinking of the steamship "Lancastria" were the following. This ship was engaged on a military operation, and it was evident from the German wireless announcement that the enemy were totally unaware of the identity of the ship which had been sunk. Further, it is contrary to the general policy of His Majesty's Government to announce the loss of individual merchant ships. The number and the total tonnage of merchant ships lost is given in a weekly statement. The tonnage of the steamship "Lancastria" was included in the statement issued on 2nd July. This policy is well known, and I cannot, therefore, understand why on this occasion bewilderment should have been caused in Liverpool and shipping circles.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have in my possession a copy of a letter in which his private secretary, writing to the "Journal of Commerce," promised that a statement would be made on this matter on 2nd July, and that, in fact, no statement appeared in the British Press until the American papers reported the matter? Why did the right hon. Gentleman's private secretary make that statement to a British newspaper?

It referred to the normal statement which appeared giving the total tonnage sunk during the period.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the story of this heroism was known on Merseyside two or three days afterwards, that it was given out on the German wireless, that it was in the "New York Sun," and that it was not until five weeks later that it was referred to in the B.B.C. News Bulletin; and is he further aware of the considerable anxiety in the public mind due to this delay?

There were so many stories of heroism connected with the evacuation from Dunkirk that this one, I regret, did not receive at the time the publicity it deserved. I am quite sure that all those concerned deserved it.

In view of the statement of the Prime Minister that he would reveal the losses of warships and merchantmen as soon as possible, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it is better for a statement to be made in this country, rather than that it should come from Germany and America?

I do not think that the Prime Minister ever made a statement to the effect that he would give the names of merchant ships.

As one who knew many of the crew who were lost on board that ship, may I ask how it was that the parents were not notified, and why, when it was public property all over the City of Liverpool when the loss occurred, publicity was not given to the people particularly concerned whose sons had gone down to the sea in ships?

I am sure that the relatives of those who were lost were informed as soon as their identity was established.

asked the Minister of Information what are the precise responsibilities of Sir Maurice Peterson as successor to Lord Perth and Controller of Overseas Publicity; what is the division of territory between his Department and the British Council; and who now is responsible for broadcasts, both foreign and Empire?

Sir Maurice Peterson's functions as Controller of Overseas Publicity are to superintend the work of the Foreign Publicity, Empire Publicity and American Divisions of the Ministry. As regards the second part of the Question, there is no division of territory between this Ministry and the British Council as the activities of the latter are confined to the cultural sphere. As regards the last part, the B.B.C., acting under the general guidance of this Ministry, are responsible for both foreign and Empire broadcasts.

Is the right hon. Gentleman considering new and more adequate arrangements for the foreign broadcasts now conducted through Broadcasting House?

I am keeping constantly in touch with that question, and I am hoping to improve upon the broadcasts.

Is the Minister satisfied that there is a real concentration of effort between these three different aspects of the same problem?

We are endeavouring to increase the concentration.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will make public the fact that telegraphic communication is open between unoccupied France and this country, but that persons inquiring for relatives should pay the reply, owing to many people being without funds?

Telegraphic communication with France has been very precarious for some time, but a service is now available to and from the unoccupied territory of France subject to censorship. The reply paid facility is available for the present by this service. A public announcement on the subject is being issued to-night.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty (1) whether the old-established custom of holding naval courts-martial following the loss of ships of the Royal Navy in order to determine the circumstances of such loss, is being adhered to; whether such courts-martial have been held as to the sinking of His Majesty's Ship "Glorious"; and what were the findings of the courts;

(2) whether any inquiry has been held into the conduct of the naval operations following the evacuation of Narvik, which led to the loss of His Majesty's Ships "Glorious," "Orama" and two destroyers; and, if so, whether the findings of the court will be promulgated?

A court-martial is not held of necessity and as a matter of course whenever one of His Majesty's ships is lost. The circumstances of the loss of His Majesty's ship "Glorious" and the ships in company were investigated by a Board of Inquiry, but it was decided that there was no advantage to be gained by holding a court-martial in addition. The findings of these Boards are confidential, and I regret that I cannot add anything to the official announcement concerning the loss of these ships.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable perturbation in the Navy among the officers concerned?

I do not know where the evidence of perturbation may be, but if officers of the Navy have such perturbation, they might communicate it to me. At any rate, I see no reason at present to change my decision.

Is the First Lord aware that the old established custom was, I think up to the last war, that there should be a court-martial in the case of the loss of one of His Majesty's ships; and can he say why that rule has been departed from, observing that naval officers themselves welcome the opportunity of a legal court-martial following the loss of a ship so that the circumstances may be made as public as possible?

It is true that up to 1914 it was not the invariable rule but a very general direction to have courts-martial, mostly in peace-time, with regard to the loss of ships, but during the first two years of the Great War it became necessary not to follow that practice, and even in the last two years of the Great War courts-martial were not excessive in number having regard to the heavy losses of ships. In regard to the procedure, it means, of course, that, if you have a court-martial, all the evidence is in public, and in the present circumstances I am not prepared to publish it.

Have any persons who witnessed the sinking of the "Glorious" been in this country since the event?

We have conducted a Board of Inquiry, and the witnesses examined have included survivors.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any steps are being taken so to accelerate the promotion of naval officers as to allow the more able officers to achieve Flag rank, and hold high commands at ages comparable to those of the commanders of 1914–18?

For some years past it has been the practice of the Admiralty to give to particularly promising lieutenant-commanders and commanders, very early promotion to the ranks of commander and captain respectively, with a view to accelerating the promotion to Flag rank of the most able officers. Similarly the number of captains who have been placed on the retired list on promotion has recently been greatly increased. The Admiralty have also taken the power to retire Flag officers and captains whom it is not intended to employ further. On the average the officers at present on the Flag list are younger than were the officers on the Flag list at the corresponding period in the last war, and for the reasons I have given this difference will become much more marked as time goes on. The Admiralty will certainly give promotion, acting or substantive, to any officer whose service during the war may give promise of his suitability for higher command.

Will my right hon. Friend also see to it that under regulations which are already in existence men can come up from the lower deck and get advancement to commissioned rank?

My hon. Friend knows my interest in this matter, and perhaps as soon as I have a little time after present operations, I may be able to do something more with regard to the great work in that connection which the Prime Minister has already started.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether, since the enemy is aware of its own submarine losses, he will state the number, respec- tively, of German and Italian submarines known to have been captured or sunk, or so seriously damaged as not likely to have returned to their bases, together with the number of submarines each was thought to have at the outbreak of war?

I regret that I cannot agree to give this information. While the enemy obviously knows the total of his submarine losses, our silence about our successes prevents him discovering how they were obtained. This knowledge would obviously be invaluable as it would help him to gauge the relative efficiency of our various methods of countering his submarine and the approximate dispositions of our patrols. There are, of course, occasions when considerations of this nature are outweighed. Instances are the Admiralty communiqués issued between 16th June and 10th Jury announcing the destruction of 14 Italian U-boats. As regards the last part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the standard books of reference.

Is it true that British seamen when out on the water call out "Waiter," and Italian submarines come to the top?

asked the Secretary of State for War whether Jews in Palestine are now being enlisted into the British Army or their services being used in any way for the Fighting Services?

Yes, Sir. Jews in Palestine are being enlisted into the British Army.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make a statement as to the possibility, in the near future, of refugees from Nazi oppression being permitted to serve in the Armed Forces of the Crown, and of those now interned being set free to do so?

I cannot at present add anything to the statements made by the Secretary of State in answer to my right hon. Friend's Questions On 23rd and 30th July.

When may we have a statement, as we have had that answer for the last eight months? Can the hon. Gentleman try and give us any hope of getting the answer before the Session ends?

There is a great deal of information in that answer, if my right hon. Friend will look at it.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the business of manure manufacturer is being carried on in Wood Lane, Shepherds Bush, within the Metropolitan borough of Hammersmith, in close proximity to the bottling depot of the London Wholesale Dairies, Limited, which deals in normal times with 40 per cent. of the milk supply of London; that the manure so produced has been stated on oath by an eminent bacteriologist in recent proceedings to contain B coli and streptococci of faecal origin in considerable quantities; and what steps he proposes to take to prevent the milk being contaminated?

My right hon. Friend is aware that the works of Hyganic, Limited, are situate as described. He has no knowledge of the evidence which was tendered in the proceedings to which the hon. Member refers, but he is advised that the process does not constitute a danger to health and with the precautions in force is unlikely to contaminate the milk supply specified.

Does the hon. Lady think that it is necessary, even in war-time, that processes like this should be carried on in the midst of crowded populations, especially when they are prohibited by Act of Parliament?

If the hon. Gentleman will look at my reply, he will see that my right hon. Friend has looked into this case, and as far as we can see there is no danger to health or to the milk supply, but if the hon. Gentleman can bring forward any further evidence, my right hon. Friend will be very glad to receive it.

I will send the hon. Lady the evidence I have been given.

Cannot the Ministry call the attention of the local authorities to the offensive trades regulations?

We are aware of them.

asked the Secretary for Mines (1) whether he is aware that an order placed on 12th July, 1940, for Durham coals to be delivered to consumers in the Argentine cannot be given a clean acceptance because the South Wales Coal Control refuses to give permission to Durham to export the cargo; and, as the buyers want Durham and not South Wales coal, and it is admitted the order is additional to orders and requirements for Welsh coals ordered by the same buyers, will he take steps for the Durham Coal Control to issue a sales permit without delay;

(2) whether he is aware that the attitude of the South Wales Coal Control in putting their own interests before those of the nation is obstructing the Government's need of increasing our exports; and will he take steps to permit the prompt shipment of Durham coals whenever orders for these are received in order to comply with the Government's and the miners' own express desire to share equally the available coal trade?

I understand that the Argentine buyers in this case have large contracts for Welsh coal, still uncompleted; and that they have not in the past been regular buyers of Durham coal. In normal times it would doubtless be for the general convenience that inter-district arrangements in regard to allocation of markets should be fully respected, but the present times are not normal. The national interest urgently demands that our coal exports should be maintained at the highest possible level and if it so happens that shipping is available for sending this coal from Durham and cannot be made available from South Wales, I am satisfied that it should be so sent and I am giving directions accordingly.

Has the hon. Gentleman noted the significance of the word "additional" which appeared in a cablegram I saw and passed on to the President of the Board of Trade? They do not want South Wales coal, but Durham coal, in addition to the orders they have given to South Wales. Will the hon. Gentleman kindly ask the South Wales people to keep off the Durham coal pitch?

My hon. Friend bases his testimony to the House on a briefly worded telegram. He has not in mind the whole of the facts, and I have given the answer appropriate to the occasion.

Will the hon. Gentleman say whether the statement in the Question is true, namely, that the order given for Durham coal cannot be delivered?

These are the circumstances. Large orders from South Wales have not been completed, and because of that Argentine buyers said they would buy Durham coal if it could be sent. Their preference is not for Durham coal.

Will the hon. Gentleman look at the correspondence I have, after wards?

indicated assent.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether it is the intention to raise the money by way of loans to meet the payment of compensation to royalty owners, as required by the Coal Act, 1938; and, if so, will he consider suspending this operation during the war period, seeing all the financial resources are required for war purposes?

It is the intention to raise this money in due course by loan. I am not prepared to take a decision that in no circumstances will the necessary loan or any part of it be issued during the war period; but the hon. Member may rest assured that it will not be issued until after careful consideration has been given to all the relevant factors, including those involved in connection with the financing of war operations.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not agree to refrain from going any further with this loan for royalty owners?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what are the qualifications of Sir Alexander Rouse for acting in the capacity of chief engineer, Home Office air-raid precautions; and the salary paid to him?

Sir Alexander Rouse, C.I.E., had a distinguished career in the Public Works Service in India, and whey he retired from that Service in 1933 he was chief engineer of the Central Public Works Department. His salary, which he draws in addition to a pension from Indian revenues, is at the rate of £1,000 a year.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this Department is now full of retired Indian civil servants, who are not considered competent to carry out the biggest constructional work required at the present time, and is he aware that there is great perturbation in the industry?

No, Sir.

asked the Home Secretary what further action he has taken respecting prosecutions undertaken and penalties imposed under Defence Regulation 39B (a); how many persons have been released from imprisonment; whether any excessive fines have been reviewed and reduced; how many fresh prosecutions have been instituted during the past fortnight; and whether persons prosecuted under the Regulation will henceforth normally be allowed bail when subject to arrest?

As regards the first three parts of the Question, my right hon. Friend has reviewed all the cases which had been disposed of by the courts up to the time of the statement which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made on 23rd July, and the result has been published in the Press. Since then proceeding have been instituted in four cases. In one of these the defendant has been bound over and cautioned, and in the other three the proceedings have not yet been completed. As regards the last part of the Question, most of these cases are dealt with by summons, and the question of bail does not therefore arise.

May I ask whether the announcement recently made, to which the hon. Gentleman refers, namely, that certain sentences had been drastically reduced, really means that in the estimation of the Home Secretary some of the penalties were five, six or 10 times greater than they should have been?

I think that all I can add to my previous answer is that the statement made in the Press on 29th July shows that my right hon. Friend has faithfully carried out the duty laid upon him by the Prime Minister.

Does that not mean that the reductions showed that the original penalties were far beyond what they should have been?

I do not think so.

Has there been a review of all the cases that have come before the courts up to date?

Yes, Sir; it has been done up to 23rd July, and there are four other cases outstanding.

Were there any prosecutions for making the statement that parachutists had come down, seeing that this statement was based on information circulated officially?

I cannot say; there are something like 114 cases altogether, and I cannot carry all the details in my head.

Will the hon. Gentleman get the police to stop objecting to bail? Is he aware that Isa Alexander was arrested on Sunday night, kept in prison for two days without bail and then liberated without any charge having been made?

If there are cases where arrests have been made and bail has been refused, I shall be very pleased to hear of them.

Does the hon. Gentleman know that four young people at Walthamstow were refused bail?

asked the Home Secretary how many internees have now been released on the ground of ill-health; how many have applied for release on that ground and how many are receiving medical treatment in internment camps; how many have committed suicide or have died from other causes in internment camps since the beginning of June; how many young people under 18 years of age have been interned; and whether he will modify the stipulation that young students need not be interned provided they are living with British families and therefore not with their parents?

I regret that the statistics asked for in the first six parts of the Question are not available. The time and labour which would be required to obtain this information can, my right hon. Friend thinks, be better devoted to the more urgent task of examining the cases of persons falling within the categories of eligibility for release from internment. The suggestion in the last part of the Question will be referred to the new Advisory Committee which my right hon. Friend has set up.

Cannot the hon. Gentleman give information regarding the number of suicides and attempted suicides? Does he not realise that this other information would go a little way towards re-establishing confidence in his Department with regard to this particular matter?

The staff of the Home Office are devoting all their attention at the present time to going through the categories of the persons who have been interned by mistake, and I do not want to divert them from that job in order to procure statistical information of an elaborate character. With regard to the question of suicides, the number which has come to my notice so far is two. I will look into the matter further and communicate with the hon. Member.

Could the hon. Gentleman give special consideration to old people over 60 who are sick? If they had a medical certificate to that effect, could they not be released?

We have already authorised the release of very considerable numbers of elderly people who are invalids and who, in our view, ought not to have been interned.

Will the hon. Member look into the matter of the internees who are not of enemy nationality? Is he aware that there is a number of internees who are of Polish nationality?

I certainly will, but that matter does not arise out of the Question on the Paper.

Could the hon. Gentleman explain why there has been such delay in releasing these people?

I certainly can. There has been, as my hon. Friend is aware, some confusion in the internment camps, largely due to the large number of people interned and partly due to the fact that accurate records at the moment are not available, because there was considerable confusion owing to the amount of impersonation in regard to those sent to the Dominions. We are endeavouring at the present moment to secure an accurate list of the internees in each of the camps.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that Mr. Irming Geisler, a German internee, No. 44059, was rescued from the "Arandora Star" and is now in hospital; and whether, as his wife and children, who were interned at Douglas, are now en route to Australia, he may be sent to join his family when in a fit state of health?

I understand from the War Office that Mr. Geisler is in hospital and is doing well. His wife and children are not en route for Australia, and there is, at present, no intention of sending them there.

Will anybody be sent to Australia without his or her leave?

asked the Home Secretary, seeing how many persons he has detained under Regulation 18B who came to this country in response to urgent newspaper advertisements in their own countries inviting them to set up new industries in distressed areas and who accepted that invitation and set up such industries accordingly, whether he will take steps to satisfy himself in each such case that there was good cause to justify each individual detention?

I think m3 hon. Friend probably has in mind aliens of enemy nationality who have been detained not under Regulation 18B but under the Prerogative power. His Majesty's Government had, of course, no responsibility for any advertisements which may have appeared in foreign newspapers, but applications from any persons who fall within the categories eligible for release will receive consideration in accordance with the policy already announced.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that over a long period advertisements were published on behalf of the Special Areas for persons such as these, and a great many people came here and established factories, partly with their own capital and partly with capital allotted out of public funds?

I cannot see any reason for according to those who have established industries here, with or without the assistance of public finance, different treatment from the remainder a the internees.

But you have done so.

The next time an order is made like this for the internment of all aliens, will they say whose fault it was? Was it the Government's?

asked the Home Secretary what changes in the status of citizens in Czecho-Slovakia interned in this country follow from the recognition of the Czech National Committee by His Majesty's Government?

No change is involved in the status of citizens of Czecho-Slovakia who, from the outbreak of war, have been treated as nationals of an Allied State.

Will the case of Czechs be included in that revision, which was promised in reply to an earlier Question?

The position of Czechs who have been interned is, of course, that they have been interned for individual causes and not as the result of any measure of general internment.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in many cases these Czechs have been interned because they had associations which were deemed to be Socialist, and therefore dangerous?

Is any decision as to the future of Slovaks involved in the recognition of Czech nationality?

I cannot answer that on this Question.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware of the difficulties encountered by friendly societies in payment of claims arising out of the death of members on war service; whether friendly societies do not need a certificate of death in these cases, or whether, where they are trustee institutions, they must have such a certificate; and whether, to clarify the whole position, he can make a statement on the subject?

I am not aware of difficulties of the kind mentioned in the Question, and perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will let me have information on any specific cases he has in mind. I understand that certificates of death must be produced only in cases where the death is or ought to be entered in any register of deaths. This is not required in the case of deaths on active service.

Will the right hon. Gentleman remember that friendly societies are in general bound by their rules to require a copy of the death certificate before they pay benefit?

I did not say I was going to consider it. I asked my hon. and gallant Friend to let me know what the difficulty was.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he is aware that the offer to supply cheap or free milk to persons in receipt of public or unemployment assistance is conditioned by an interpretation of circular F.I.G. 321, 17th June, in relation to eligible households in such a way as to prevent the great majoritiy of such persons receiving any milk under the scheme; and can he see his way to free the scheme from this restriction?

The National Milk Scheme was designed to provide milk for those persons most in need of it, on grounds of nutrition, namely, children under five, and expectant and nursing mothers, and its benefits are restricted to such persons. The passage in the circular to which the hon. Member refers explained that where the householder is himself in receipt of public or unemployment assistance, or a supplementary old age pension, that fact does not exclude the mothers and children of the household, who are qualified, from the benefits of the scheme.

Is it not true that persons in receipt of unemployment assistance are eligible under some limited circumstances for this milk, and, if so, why are the circumstances so limited?

No, Sir, the facts are exactly as stated in the answer.

When will the inquiry now proceeding be finished and the results published?

We hope, very shortly.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he can give the approximate administration costs of the Department's cheap milk scheme and the value of the milk which passes through it; and how these compare with the administrative expenses of the Milk Marketing Board and the value of the milk that they control?

It is as yet too soon to give any close estimates either of the cost of the administration of the National Milk Scheme, or of the value of the milk to be distributed under the scheme. The former may amount to £800,000 in the first year, and the latter to £15,000,000 on the assumption that there will be 2,500,000 beneficiaries. The administrative expenses of the Milk Marketing Board, according to the latest published accounts, made up to 31st March, 1940, amounted to £427,000 in dealing with net realisations of milk amounting to ap- proximately £49,000,000 by sales to 13,000 purchasers, and to approximately £16,000,000 by sales from producer-retailers and farmhouse cheesemakers whose operations are regulated by the Board. The scope and purposes of the two schemes are, of course, entirely different.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether his attention has been drawn to the high cost of fruit, amounting to two or three times pre-war prices; whether he is satisfied that these prices are justified; and whether, in view of the food value of fruit, he will take steps to secure reductions in prices?

It is not practicable for the Ministry of Food to control the prices at which soft fruits are sold. If a consumer has any reason to think that the prices that are being charged are excessive, he is entitled to submit a complaint to the local committee set up under the Prices of Goods Act.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food on what basis potato meal from factories established by the Government is being distributed; and whether counties in which the factories are not situated will have the opportunity of purchasing proportions of the meal?

During the latter part of the last season potato meal produced from factories now under the control of the Ministry was distributed partly to makers of compound feeding-stuffs and partly to merchants in the counties immediately around the factories. A wider basis of distribution was not warranted because the supplies of meal were comparatively small. For the next season, when more factories should be in operation, it may not be possible for reasons of economy in transport to distribute potato meal to all counties, but those counties which do not receive allocations of potato meal will be given increased allocations of other feeding-stuffs.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he is aware that butchers in the Petersfield and Alton districts have issued a notice that deliveries of meat will be charged for at the rate of 1d. in the 1s. or ½d. in the 6d.; and whether it is proposed to take any action to prevent this method of evading the regulation fixing maximum prices?

My attention has been drawn to the notice in question. Under Article 4 of the Meat (Maximum Retail Prices) Order, 1940, butchers are precluded from making or demanding an unreasonable charge in connection with the sale of meat. A charge for delivery does not necessarily constitute an evasion of the Order in question. The reasonableness of the charge is a question of fact depending on the circumstances of the particular case. If any member of the public called upon to pay the charge, to which the hon. Member refers, considers it unreasonable, a complaint should be lodged with the Divisional Food Officer, Rotherfield Grange, Bath Road, Reading, who will investigate it and, if necessary, take action to require adherence to the provisions of the Order.

Are we to understand that the reasonableness or unreasonableness of the charge depends upon the temperament of the individual making the purchase? Is the hon. Gentleman's Department convinced that 8d. is a reasonable charge for delivery, for any distance?

No, it depends on the temperament of the Divisional Food Officer.

Are we to understand that our legislation is to be interpreted according to the temperament of officials?

No, Sir. But we must allow Divisional Food Officers to exercise reasonable discretion.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he is aware that appointments of junior staff in local food offices are made through the Employment Exchanges; and whether he will, in preference to this, arrange to allow such appointments to be made by the local committees after appropriate advertisements, especially as these committees are statutory bodies?

The answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative; to the second part in the negative. The staff of the local food offices are temporary employès of the Ministry of Food, and in accordance with general Government policy must be recruited through the Employment Exchanges.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether, seeing that it is an achievement on the part of British science, he is in the position to give the name or names of the British scientist or scientists whose research over a period of time has made it possible to add vitamin B.1 to white bread on a large and popular scale?

Scientific research is international in character, and the synthesis and commercial production of vitamin B.1 owes much to the work of scientists in other countries. It is however to the credit of the British scientists who were consulted by the flour milling industry that they were the first to realise the possibility of an important contribution to the nutritional value of white bread being secured by the introduction of vitamin B.1 into white flour, and they conducted the extensive series of investigations required to test the technical methods and their commercial practicability.

While thanking my hon. Friend for his reply, is it not only fair that the scientists who, in the final result, have enabled this policy to be achieved should have their names publicly announced so that they can get the credit?

It is always rather invidious to mention the names of scientists, because when that is done one always finds that there are others equally entitled to share in the credit.

Would it not be as well to wait until we see the results of this experiment?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food (1) the amount of butter consumed per week prior to rationing and the amount saved per week by rationing;

(2) the amount of tea consumed per week prior to rationing and the amount estimated to be saved per week by rationing?

(3) the amount of bacon consumed per week prior to rationing and the amount saved per week by rationing?

It is not in the public interest to give figures of consumption in time of war, but I am arranging to send the information to my hon. Friend.

Will my hon. Friend arrange for this to be published in the OFFICIAL REPORT, as the habit of giving information to individual Members ought not to be continued?

I cannot arrange for it to be published in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the hon. Gentleman send me a copy of the information?

If I had thought that the Question would cause any annoyance or trouble, I would rather have done without the information.

I shall be glad to send the information to the hon. Member, and if hon. Members so desire, I will arrange for it to be placed in the Library.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he has yet ascertained the source from which Messrs Duncans, Limited, of South Shields, obtained the information which enabled them to publish details of the tea rationing scheme some hours before the broadcast by the Minister of Food; what action has been taken against the person perpetrating this breach of confidence; and what steps have been taken to prevent a repetition?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for Consett (Mr. David Adams).