asked the Minister of Labour whether the arrangement to pay travelling expenses applies in all cases where men have been compelled to leave their occupation and take up more urgent duties, and are called upon to travel in consequence; and, if not, what are the conditions under which these expenses are paid?

Broadly speaking, workers who are transferred by my Department beyond daily travelling distance to work of urgent national importance are entitled to travelling expenses, but the exact arrangements are not the same in all industries. If my hon. Friend has any particular case of difficulty in mind, perhaps he will send me particulars.

Do I understand that an individual who is called upon to travel daily does not qualify?

No, Sir.

Will the Minister look into the unfairness of such an arrangement, in view of the demand of his Department that men should change their occupation, and in some instances work at a lower wage, and might be called upon to pay several shillings a day travelling expenses?

Perhaps my hon. Friend will put that Question on the Paper.

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons have recently been transferred from other industries to those directly related to war production?

I regret that it would not be in the public interest to publish statistics which would indicate the growth of production for war purposes.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the Central Register can be expanded to comprise scientists and technicians of lower qualifications than those now included, whose services are now frequently needed for work of a more routine nature?

The standard of qualification required for the Central Register is kept under review by the Advisory Committees, representative of the sciences and the professions, with whose assistance the Central Register is operated. Scientists and technicians who are not in employment, and whose qualifications fall below this standard, are included in the supplementary registers which deal with vacancies of the kind to which my hon. Friend refers.

Have there been any recent changes in the qualifications?

No, Sir.

How many scientists and technicians have been placed?

I cannot give the figures.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will ensure that the Central Register is utilised to a greater extent for the purpose of finding appropriate work for the persons registered in it and not merely for finding persons occasionally for particular vacant posts?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave on 18th July to the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Joel). I would add that more than 7,000 posts have been filled through the Central Register since the outbreak of war.

Has there been an increase since the right hon. Gentleman undertook his office?

I must have notice of that question.

How many names are on the Central Register?

I must have notice of that also.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can make a statement on the extent to which his Ministry has taken advantage of offers of national service from business men over military age with experience of business administration, control of labour, and works maintenance; and whether any inspection of the Register is kept in process in order to take advantage of the services of highly-qualified business men?

The Central Register has been able to place into employment on work of national importance over 7,200 persons. The classification of the Register does not correspond with the categories mentioned by my hon. Friend, and I cannot give separate figures for them, but if he will let me know more precisely the classes of candidates he has in mind I will send him such information as is available. The answer to the last part of the Question is in the affirmative, but I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement I made on 27th June last in reply to the hon. and learned Member for East Leicester (Mr. Lyons), in which I explained that the special abilities of many professional and business men are not required for the war industries, and suggested other directions in which their services would be of value.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give instructions for a review to be made of the great number of applications from capable administrative people in industry who are seeking some form of war employment?

Steps are being taken by the Central Register. They are engaged on the task of improving the arrangement and are actually getting down to the interviews in order to ascertain the qualifications and abilities of the people on the Register, but I must remind the hon. Gentleman that of the people on the Register, 90 per cent, are in employment, and they seek to transfer from that employment to what they assume will be probably a better post somewhere else, and that creates difficulties.

How many names are there still on the Central Register?

asked the Minister of Labour what steps are taken to maintain a fair relationship between the pay of the men in the Fighting Services, men in the Civil Defence Services and men reserved in civil occupations for work of national importance?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answers given on 1st August by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in reply to the hon. Member for Denbigh (Sir H. Morris-Jones), and by myself in reply to the hon. Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Higgs).

Will the right hon. Gentleman represent the point of view in the Question to his colleagues, and particularly to the Secretary of State for War?

Will the right hon. Gentleman take note of the great discrepancy between the pay of the men of the Armed Forces and the salaries of bank directors?

asked the Minister of Labour whether, as the present demand for women in munition factories is limited, and it is unwise to suggest there is a large demand for women labour all over the country before the proper machinery has been created to absorb it, he will withdraw the permission given by his Department for the release of a film doing propaganda work for his Department entitled "A Call for Arms"?

While the present demand for women in munition factories is limited, there must be a growing demand for women labour as the programme expands and output is accelerated. I had no responsibility for the preparation of the film referred to and do not propose to take any action in the matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in a certain munitions area where the hours of work and wages have been reduced owing to the low demand for labour, an angry crowd of women went to the Employment Exchange? Does he really think it is quite fair for a film depicting women fainting, with such captions as "Will you come and help?" to be shown throughout the country?

I think the hon. Lady should put that question to those who produced the film.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his Department was asked to approve the film as suitable propaganda, and passed it?

I do not accept that.

asked the Minister of Labour what facilities are now available for women now unemployed if they desire to train as cooks?

The few remaining classes which were run for me by the Central Committee on Women's Training, and Employment have come to an end. Considerable difficulty was experienced in obtaining recruits for these classes, and moreover there are large numbers of unemployed women cooks on the registers of the Employment Exchanges. In these circumstances, I do not feel that there is at present any special need for training facilities of this type.

May I ask that, if in future it should become necessary and women want to train as cooks, there shall be classes available?

That is a hypothetical Question. It may be that we shall want to train men as cooks.

asked the Minis ter of Labour whether he is aware that a man summoned at Northampton for not paying a debt of £4 was earning an aver age of £21 4s. 11d. per week; that another man summoned for not paying a judgment summons of 4s. 6d. per week was stated, in evidence, to be re ceiving an average of £12 17s. 10d. per week, and to have earned £20 per week; and as both were employées of Messrs. Stewart and Lloyds, will he take action to prevent this excessive payment of wages?

I am not aware of either the hours worked or output produced by these men, but I presume that they were working according to the terms and conditions of a collective agreement. If the question of the respective incomes of different citizens in the country is to be taken into account, it cannot be limited to workmen.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that highly skilled engineers are receiving less than one-quarter of the wages set out on the Paper? Can he take no action to prevent opportunist exploitation of the nation's needs? Would it not be better to compel exploiters to observe the same patriotism as that exhibited by the highly skilled engineers?

I do not accept the word "exploitation." The wages that are being paid are fixed by collective agreement. The only abnormal conditions which did arise, and which upset the wage arrangements of the country, were where one employer against another sought to poach labour in the early days of the war, and they really blacklegged their own side.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will explain the machinery he proposes to use to overcome the present difficulties which the International Labour Branch will encounter because they cannot give an internee a job until he is released, while he will not normally be released until a job has been found for him?

The question of release from internment is not a matter for my Department but for the Home Office, and under present arrangements the International Labour Branch of my Department is not primarily concerned with finding employment for persons who are interned. The categories at present eligible for release are set out in the recent White Paper (Cmd. 6217), though further categories may be added later.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consult with the Home Secretary to see whether there is some way in which an agent of this International Labour Branch might be able to go into the internment camps and discover what skill there is available among reliable men, and take that information to likely employers?

I take the view that any interference on the part of my Department with the question of internment will nullify the whole object of the scheme that I have attempted to work out. The question of internment, and release from internment, is one of security and of judicial decision on the part of the Minister of Home Security. My task begins when he has finished his. If I go beyond that, I believe I shall upset the whole scheme.

Will the right hon. Gentleman state what his task is in finding work, since these men will not be released until they have found it?

That is outside the scope.

I will raise the question when an opportunity presents itself.

asked the Minister of Labour on whose instructions employers engaged on munition and aircraft work are refusing to employ men of British birth because of their alien parentage; and will he take steps to cancel this instruction?

I know of no general instruction debarring British persons of alien birth from employment on munitions or aircraft work. If my hon. Friend has any particular cases in mind, he should refer them to the Minister responsible for the work in question.

Has my right hon. Friend's attention been called to a very shocking case at Birmingham, where the son of a German mother has been arrested just because he happens to be the son of a German mother?

I have no knowledge of that.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he contemplates the introduction without delay of a comprehensive scheme to deal with the unemployment of workpeople in the distributive and other trades, which is arising from reduced consumption and limitation of production of non-essential goods?

asked the Minister of Labour what steps are being taken to absorb immediately into employment those who are thrown out of work by restriction of home consumption; and whether men and women in non-essential industries who are rendered unemployed by these measures are to be trained in the production of munitions?

As workpeople become unemployed as a result of reduced consumption and limitation of production of non-essential goods, my object is to get them as quickly as possible into essential work or services, after training when this is necessary, and the available opportunities are brought to their notice by the Employment Exchanges. Such workers may register before they are actually unemployed so that, if possible, any intervening period of unemployment may be avoided. In this connection, I would refer my hon. Friends to the statement I made on 27th June last in reply to the hon. and learned Member for East Leicester (Mr. Lyons) of which I am sending them a copy.

Does the Minister contemplate any extension or revision of the present system of training people who lose their employment so that they can be taken into productive employment, in munitions, and so on?

A little later I shall be making a statement on training.

What are these people to do in the meantime, while they are unemployed and have not been absorbed into munitions production?

The only thing to which they are entitled by decision of the House is unemployment pay. That is the responsibility of the House.

Are we to understand that instructions are being given to employers that they should warn their employés at least two or three weeks or a month before they are likely to discharge them on account of this restriction?

By arrangement with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, every time there is a restriction about to come into operation, a liaison arrangement exists, and we endeavour to find out the places. That is on the factories side. On the distributive side, it is not quite so easy, because the effect is indirect. I will, if it is so desired, take steps to make a special request that employers may co-operate with their workpeople when they foresee that these difficulties will arise.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the approximate number of those who have become unemployed as a result of this restriction, and how many of that number have gone into munitions work?

It is absolutely impossible. A works may be on luxury work—for example, needlework. A factory which I have in mind was working on luxury work, and before the restriction operated, practically the whole of that work was transferred over to parachute work. Therefore, one cannot say exactly how many are transferred.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to increase the number of skilled workers; and what arrangements he is making to expand training?

As the answer to this Question is rather long, I will, with the permission of the House, postpone it to the end of Questions.

I am glad to have this opportunity of making a statement on the subject of the need for an increase in the number of skilled workers and the expansion of training. There does appear to me to be a lack of appreciation in industry generally of the enormous need for a rapid expansion of training to meet the requirements of the expanding programme of munition production and the maintenance of a satisfactory export position. In this field it must be recognised that the enemy has paid special attention to this problem and if the Services are to be fully equipped and the necessary exports maintained then the whole of industry must devote more attention to this problem. Up to the moment, so far as training in the workshops is concerned, we have adopted the methods of persuasion, and this was necessary because we had to meet the urgent demands made upon industry by the exigencies of the war and the re-equipping of our Forces over the past three months and had, therefore, to use the facilities and machine tools that were ready at hand for actual productive work. I have done all that I can in co-operation with the Production Departments and the Engineering Employers' Federation to induce employers to undertake the maximum amount of training of men, both at the higher and lower levels of skill, and also the introduction and training of women. I have called in the experts to advise me as to how far and to what extent skilled men can be released, even in the manufacture of machine tools. I have caused the labour supply committees, the inspectors of labour supply and the factory inspectors to stimulate employers in every possible way to undertake training. If training is undertaken in the workshop it doe's mean that for a short period there may be a small sacrifice of immediate production. This temporary sacrifice must be faced but will be made good in very quick time. The Government are satisfied that the war is not going to end in the immediate future, and it is therefore of vital importance to initiate now the necessary steps that not only make good the temporary loss but will so greatly accelerate production a little later.

I am afraid that some employers are to some extent living in a fools' paradise in the matter of skilled labour. They must realise that the scarcity of various classes of skilled labour, as had already been revealed, will, in the absence of extensive provision of training, be greatly accentuated by other factors. For example, large numbers of skilled men have been released from the Forces for return to the engineering factories. In the recent month it reached the figure of over 3,000. But the release is only provisional and with the growing needs of an expanding mechanical army, many of these men may have to go back at a later date. Further, it must not be assumed that the present rules in regard to reservation of certain occupations at certain ages can stand for the duration of the war. Here again there is an increasing demand for men for the Forces, both as tradesmen and for general service and it is by no means certain that the present balance as between industry and the Forces can remain undisturbed.

The training in the factory having regard to these factors must make provision for the training of (a) highly skilled people; (b) those who, with little training, can be turned into effective productive units; and (c) women; and under these three headings it must work in association with a continuous process of up-grading. The lesser skilled men and the women cannot be absorbed unless this up-grading and training process is accelerated. Therefore, with the upgrading the employers create the vacancies, and the necessary action can then be initiated through the Employment Exchange machinery to make the lesser skilled and women available by means of transfer from other industries. There is no excuse for delay. Employers have already been informed that the additional cost of training will be met by the Government. Training is much more effective, both for the works and for those being trained, if it is carried out voluntarily and with good will. I am therefore reluctant to make training obligatory on all employers but conditions may arise when this would have to be done. Employers should not wait for orders and regulations but should co-operate immediately in the solution of this problem.

The next form of training I desire to explain is the Government training centres. While these centres can contribute, they cannot take the place of training in the factory itself. These training centres operated by my Department were originally established for a special purpose in connection with unem ployment, and only accepted men from the depressed areas. When the rearmament drive began the area of recruitment was extended to the whole country, and in the early months of the war my predecessor decided that the centres should be converted entirely from a social service to an essential part of the Government war machine. The capacity of the centres was extended and the technique of rapid training of new entrants to industry was introduced, so that they became highly semi-skilled workers within four months. People with special aptitudes are passed out in less than that time. I decided to take this a stage further by removing the condition that a trainee must be unemployed, and threw the training open to any person. We are drawing the trainees from almost every trade and calling and irrespective of age. We have also rearranged allowances with a view to removing hardship while men are going through the training period. The number of centres has now been increased to 19 training centres and their capacity greatly expanded. I have set myself as a goal a total of 40 centres, and additional sets of premises have been secured and are being adapted. Whether it will be possible to attain this goal depends on a number of factors which are not within my control. They are: instructors, managerial staff, and what is most important, machine tools and other equipment. I regard this as so vital that I have asked that the training centres should be placed in the highest category of priority in order to get them equipped. But this claim has to be balanced against the claims of immediate production. We have aimed to put the present centres on a full treble shift. As soon as the instructors and necessary staff are obtained the annual rate of output from the present centres should be in excess of 100,000 trainees a year. If the goal of 40 centres is achieved, we should be able to double this.

In the obtaining of instructors I desire to pay my tribute to the Amalgamated Engineering Union, and I have also secured a promise of help from the Engineering Employers' Federation. Every engineering employer should earnestly consider whether he cannot release one or two suitable men to become instructors in the training centres. I have increased the scale of pay, and instructors liable to night work will now receive a minimum of £350 a year. I am also in need of persons of managerial capacity, who must be men with good technical qualifications and a substantial period of industrial experience.

The next factor in training is that I have, in association with my right hon. Friends the President of the Board of Education and the Secretary of State for Scotland, initiated a scheme of short courses of training through the technical colleges, and a number of classes are in operation. Many more should begin shortly. I am anxious that the technical colleges should produce at a rate of not less than 50,000 per year. I am also setting up training arrangements in garages, maintenance shops and other shops which have unused capacity, and I am trying in these ways to add substantial additions to the ranks of the trained workers for the war production campaign.

In this total war a combination of all these factors is essential if our needs are to be supplied. If the employers concerned are seized with the importance of training equally with my Department, I am satisfied that, with the aid of our Dominions and the United States of America, and with the fullest use of our man-power and the resources at our command, we can overtake any disparity that may now favour the enemy. It is, therefore, worth while making a supreme effort in this field.

The right hon. Gentleman referred to German methods in this connection. Although I am not suggesting that German methods are ours, may I ask him whether he is not of the opinion that, at this stage of the war, these appeals are somewhat dilatory; and will he use the powers which he has, or if he has no powers will he seek powers to enforce on industry the appeal which he has now made to them on a voluntary basis?

Parliament gave me the power that was necessary, but it is a little difficult to apply methods of compulsion in every factory alike. When you try to do it purely by regulation, it does not always work out right. I am satisfied that with this appeal to-day and with the response which is already forthcoming, the number of trainees will be doubled very shortly.

I think the House will welcome the statement which has been made by the Minister, as showing further progress towards the planning of industry. Is the Minister aware, however, that one of the great difficulties is that many skilled men have left highly-skilled work, which cannot be done on a piece-work basis, and have been drafted in to piecework jobs; that it will be very difficult in the normal way to get them back on to machine-tool work, where they are paid at time rates, and that this will handicap the right hon. Gentleman's efforts very considerably? Is the Minister in a position to say that he has made any progress in solving that important problem? I would also ask him whether, in his appeal to the managerial side of industry, he could not ask existing managers of many engineering works which are not hard pressed by urgent munitions work to give part of their time each day to this training in a voluntary way? Could he not do that, when dealing with this matter in the different districts?

As regards the first question I think I made a statement to the House recently that I hoped the problem of the tool-maker was being solved. That was one of the first jobs which I did, by arranging that the average of the shops should be taken with a plus so that a man on a highly skilled job would go to his proper place, instead of being kept on the belts. A great deal has been done in that direction. With regard to the part-time voluntary method of training, apart from the technical colleges, one must have regard to the students as well as the teachers.

I have no doubt the Minister is aware that a large number of manufacturers are already making an effort to carry out his suggestion, but will he explain what they are to do in cities like Birmingham, where they cannot get the labour to train?

If an application is made to the Employment Exchange from any firm in Birmingham which is willing to take labour to train, the arrangements are adequate for the transfer of labour from other districts.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the Army there are skilled engineers working as mess attendants and that the Army refuses to release them?

The arrangement with the Army has been worked extremely well. It may be that, temporarily, in the Army, especially now that they are at home, a man may not be actually working at his trade, but I am bound to say this for the Forces that they have responded magnificently to the arrangement which exists between my Ministry and the War Office. Although at the moment men may not be working at their trades, at the same time it would be far too dangerous, with invasion facing us, to ask the Army to disperse all their Service men whom they may at any moment require if there is an attack. The services of these men may be temporarily given to what are regarded as not trade matters, but I am bound to agree that a very large number have to be retained.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of establishing a training centre in Northern Ireland, where there are so many unemployed? I know that the Minister of Labour in Northern Ireland sends men over here for training, but we do require a training centre there.

If the Government of Northern Ireland care to establish a training centre, I will give them advice.

Is the Minister satisfied that the number of places in technical colleges for training women is adequate?

The main and essential thing at this moment is to bring women on to the repetition work, and that is where women have to be brought in.

Why?

Because there is not time to train women to the highest skill efficiently to meet this programme, and we have to face the fact, especially in the case of women who are transferred from other trades that when trade revives, they will expect to go back to those trades. We have, first, to get the people up-graded and then to bring the women and the semi-skilled and unskilled men into the lower stages.

rose

The Minister has made a very long statement, and it seems to me that it would be preferable that hon. Members should consider it and absorb it, before asking any further questions.

On a point of Order. I would consider that very good advice in the ordinary course, but there seems to me to be something peculiar about that advice, in view of the fact that I have risen on every occasion to put a question.

I think the hon. Member gets his full share of the time of the House.

On a point of Order. May I ask my right hon. Friend the Minister a question about his views on the training of women?

That is not a point of Order.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the Commissioner for Special Areas is still functioning; and what are the intentions of the Government in regard to his office?

Yes, Sir, to the limited extent explained in the replies given to my hon. Friend's Questions on 7th March and nth April last. As regards the second part of the Question, it is my intention to continue the Commissioner's appointment.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will enable regular members of a lifeboat belonging to the Royal National Lifeboat Institution to be reserved, similar to fishermen, for the Royal Navy Patrol Service?

Whole-time lifeboatmen are reserved at the age of 18, and are not, therefore, accepted for service in His Majesty's Forces. Part-time lifeboatmen have the reservation, if any, of their normal whole-time occupation.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that there are some teachers in various parts of the country who have been dismissed from their posts and cannot obtain other posts as teachers because they are conscientious objectors or known pacifists, yet cannot take any other kind of posts because they are in a reserved occupation; and will he take steps to ensure that all such persons, whose names and facts are supplied to him, will be removed from the category of persons in a reserved occupation?

I would refer the hon. Lady to my answer in the House on 18th July regarding the treatment of conscientious objectors by their employers. As I have stated on several occasions, there is nothing in the Schedule of Reserved Occupations which prevents a teacher or any other person from taking any kind of post, other than a whole-time post in one of the Services of National Defence.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some of these conscientious objectors would be willing to serve in the Royal Army Medical Corps, but are not allowed to do that because they are in a reserved occupation as teachers, and yet they are not allowed to teach?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that there is doubt existing over the question as to what is new money lent to the nation during the war, and many applicants for supplementary old age pensions who have placed their savings in War Savings Certificates or trustee savings banks are told this is not new money and cannot be disregarded; and will the Minister state what is the exact position and the Government's intention over new money?

asked the Minister of Health whether investments in co-operative societies will be disregarded for purposes of old age pensions in exactly the same way as investments in War Savings Certificates, Post Office savings and gilt-edged securities; is he aware that considerable anxiety exists in the country in respect of this matter; and, further, has he made any arrangements with representatives of the societies in this matter?

asked the Minister of Health the position of applicants for supplementary pension who have bought War Savings Certificates?

I would refer the hon. Members to the undertaking given by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard to war savings. Pending the introduction of the legislation necessary to give effect to this undertaking, I regret that I am not in a position to make any further statement on the subject.

I am aware of the reply to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred, but there is a great deal of unrest about this matter. Can we be told something definite as to when the Bill will be introduced; and at the same time will the Minister take into consideration the savings of the present applicants for supplementary pensions?

I think that matter will be made quite definite when the Bill is introduced, as I understand it will be to-day.

What instructions have been given to the people who are to administer this?

The Bill will be introduced to-day, so that the position will be quite clear. I cannot add anything at present.

asked the Minister of Health whether an instruction has been sent out to investigators of the Assistance Board to renew all investigations in respect of applications for supplementary old age pensions which did not take into account the income of "in-laws"?

I am informed by the Board that, so far as they are aware, no such instruction has been issued.

Is the Minister aware that in many instances forms have been called in; and that the information of the Board does not correspond with the experience of hon. Members. Is he further aware that investigations are being made which are a violation of the undertakings given to this House?

I have made inquiries from the Board on this subject, and I have given the House the information I have received. If the hon. Member has information which is in conflict, I shall be very glad to receive it and go into the matter.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think it is competent for investigation officers to demand to know the incomes of "in-laws"?

What the investigation officers should do is laid down in the Regulations, and they have carried out their work in such a way that, so far as the Board is aware, no further instructions on this point have been necessary, but, if the hon. Member has any cases, I will gladly examine the question.

May I also send cases to the Minister?

asked the Minister of Health how many applications have been received for supplementary allowances from old age pensioners; how many of the applications have been granted; and what is the average rate of the supplementary allowance?

Up to and including 2nd August, the latest date for which information is available, approximately 1,360,000 applications for supplementary pensions have been received. At that date approximately 920,000 supplementary pensions had been granted, whilst 340,000 applications had either been withdrawn or supplementary pensions had not been granted on grounds of ineligibility or because the applicant was deemed not to be in need. With regard to the last part of the Question, information is not yet available as to the average weekly payment of supplementary pension, but I will furnish it to the hon. Member in due course.

Do those figures include Scotland?

I think they include the whole of the British Isles.

Can instructions be given that Members of Parliament shall receive the figures from their local officers?

I do not think that I can do that, but if any hon. Member wishes to have information, I will endeavour to give him such information myself.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the dissatisfaction at the small amounts of supplementary allowances granted to many old age pensioners; that in many cases the allowances are only 3s. 6d. per week; and how these amounts are fixed?

The reply to the first part of the Question is in the negative. As regards the second part the amounts of pensions are calculated in accordance with the rules set out in the Supplementary Pensions (Determination of Need and Assessment of Need) Regulations, 1940. It is not possible without knowing all the facts to say how a supplementary pension has been calculated in a particular case, but if the hon. Member has any particular case or cases in mind and will let me have particulars, I will make inquiries.

Is the Minister aware that the operation of the household means test is creating even greater concern in the case of old age pensioners than in the case of the unemployed? Is he further aware that during this week I have had scores of letters from different parts of the country, indicating that the amounts of the supplementary allowances awarded to old age pensioners are in the region of 1s., 1s. 6d. and 2s. a week? Will he have a review of this matter before he creates a storm in the country?

In regard to the figure of the supplementary pensions, I have already undertaken to let the hon. Member have information of the average figure as soon as I can, and I expect that will be in the near future. I think that the hon. Member will find that the average figure is very much higher than the sort of figures he has quoted this afternoon. In regard to the principle of the household means test, that was debated in this House, and the legislation is being carried out in accordance with the decision of the House.

Will the Minister address himself, in particular, to the hardship created because of the way in which the rules are being operated, in that sons-in-law and daughters-in-law are treated as members of the same household? In view of the national interest, will he look into this problem at once?

I am certainly willing to look into that sort of question. Naturally, I am dependent upon hon. Members to let me have information they may have which would justify an investigation and help me in the problem. Beyond that, I cannot go.

asked the Minister of Health why the Assistance Board refuse to determine the application of Mrs. Jemima Varley, a widow aged 79, of 104, Manchester Road, Nelson, for a supplementary old age pension until she furnishes the income of the landlord from whom she rents an unfurnished room at 5s. per week?

I am having inquiry made and will communicate with the hon. Member.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is becoming a practice with the Assistance Board to require these particulars, and to refuse determination whenever the old age pensioner happens to rent a room from someone who is a relative instead of someone who is a friend?

I will look into the matter as soon as I have obtained information from the Board.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the great concern felt by many needy and deserving old age pensioners in Cheltenham at the rejection of their applications for supplementary pensions; in particular, why has a supplementary old age pension been refused to Mrs. C. Farley, of 33, Leighton Road, Cheltenham, age 83, whose sole income is the old age pension of 10s. a week and who has to support her daughter and herself?

I am having inquiry made and will communicate with the hon. Member.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have already sent him particulars of some very bad cases, and that since then I have had a number of very hard cases. Is he aware, now that we have had experience of the way in which this law has been administered, that it will either have to be better administered or amended?

Could not the Minister have a report from the "snoopers" on this matter?

asked the Minister of Health whether he will give a ruling on the question of local authorities compensating financially members of their staffs who were precluded from taking their holidays during 1939 by the war situation?

This matter is not one in which I am empowered to give a ruling, or on which advice could be given in general terms. Employees' rights vary with the terms of their contract of employment, and the legality and reasonableness of any payments must be left for consideration in the first instance by the district auditor. While I cannot anticipate his decision, I have no reason to expect that difficulty will arise over reasonable payments.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the increased and increasing expenditure of grant-aided institutions, he will consider increasing the block grant to municipal authorities responsible for such institutions?

I am not entirely clear to what payments the hon. Member is referring. The block grant payable to local authorities is recalculated periodically at the end of periods of five years. The present period does not expire until 31st March, 1942, and I have no power to alter the amounts payable to local authorities in the interval.

Does the Minister appreciate that, between the time when the last block grants were fixed and now many great changes have taken place, and the value of the grants has altered considerably, and, in view of legislation now before the House, does he appreciate that many of these grant-aided institutions have been involved in very heavy expenditure indeed which has to be passed on to the ratepayers?

As far as local authorities are concerned, they have been put into particularly acute difficulties owing to the changes to which the hon. Member has referred. We have already indicated that if they are not able, out of their own resources or by the normal procedure, to raise the necessary money for carrying on essential services, then the Government will put them in funds and come to their aid. I think that position is quite satisfactory.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the action of the emergency committee of the Paddington Borough Council in suspending all council and committee meetings; and whether, in view of the fact that all other local authorities are continuing to function normally and that no reason has yet arisen to prevent this council doing likewise, he will make representations to the local authority on the matter?

My attention has not previously been drawn to this matter, which is primarily one for the council to determine and in regard to which I have no statutory powers. I am, however, communicating with the council.

asked the Minister of Health how many houses have been completed since the start of the war; how many of these were subsidised; and whether he can indicate by counties where they are situated?

It is not possible to give my hon. Friend the precise information for which he asks, as the normal monthly returns were discontinued at the beginning of the war and replaced by six-monthly returns. Subject to this the information is available, but as the answer involves columns of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Health what representations have been made to him by the National Federation of Property Owners urging him to postpone until after the war all

The representations made to me by the Federation urged that owners of property should be relieved of some of the requirements which local authorities are empowered to make with regard to the carrying out of repairs, etc., to their property. I have informed the Federation that while appreciating the difficulties both of owners and local authorities in this connection, I see no reason to modify the views expressed by my predecessor in his reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Moseley (Sir P. Hannon) on 14th March, of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the headmaster of the Jersey Modern School was informed by his Department, on 16th July last, that his school had been evacuated to a place to which, on inquiry, the chief billeting officer stated that the school had not been evacuated, and is it possible to give inquirers any information as to what has happened to this school?

I am unable to trace the incident to which the hon. Member refers. The information available indicated that the Jersey Modern School did not leave Jersey as a school party, though some of the pupils attending this school came to this country with their families or in other groups. Two of these pupils were billeted for some time in the place which I understand the hon. Member has in mind but have since been removed in the care of a relative.

Has not the right hon. Gentleman received any duplicates of the letters sent out?

I have given the hon. Member all the information at my disposal.

Then perhaps I had better send him his own correspondence.

asked the Minister of Health whether arrangements for succour and housing of British refugees from the Channel Islands can be provided, at least equal to that of foreign refugees?

Yes, Sir, and in addition special arrangements have been made to billet unaccompanied school parties from the Channel Islands under the Government evacuation scheme.

How does my right hon. Friend account for the large numbers of the refugees, who are our own nationals, being placed under conditions which lack decency and privacy?

If the hon. Member has cases in which he feels that the principle of the proper treatment of these people is being contravened, I will look into them, but my information is that in general the position is satisfactory and very much appreciated by the Channel Islanders.

In view of conditions in the refugee camps, will not the right hon. Gentleman's answer be poor consolation to the Channel Islanders?

asked the Minister of Pensions what arrangements are made for the provision of comforts, including cigarettes and tobacco, to ex-Service patients and wounded members of the British Expeditionary Force in Ministry of Pensions and other hospitals; whether he is aware that many men are unable to afford these comforts for themselves, and that gifts are seldom received or are unequally distributed; and whether he will take steps to improve the position?

I am glad to say that comforts of many kinds, including cigarettes and tobacco, are sent to Ministry of Pensions hospitals through the generosity of the Order of St. John and the British Red Cross Society and a number of other voluntary bodies and private donors, and their action is greatly appreciated by the patients. I am assured by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health that similar provision is made in the hospitals of the Emergency Medical Service.