asked the Minister of Labour whether he has any statement to make regarding the training of workers to assist in war production?

Since my statement in the House on 8th August, 1940, considerable progress has been made with the training of workers to assist in war production. Certain further developments are now in progress, and I hope to make a full public statement on the whole question in the near future.

If I put down a Question next week, will the Minister be able to make a statement then?

I am not certain.

Is the Minister aware that the number of trainees in this country is below the number in Germany; when will he reach parity in that respect?

I do not admit that; I do not think the hon. Member is in a position to know—I am not actually in that position—the total number of trainees, having regard to what private firms are now doing.

When will the Minister be able to produce comparative figures?

It is impossible to produce comparative figures, because the matter is in a constant state of flux. Under the arrangements now made in industry, persons who may be trainees to-day pass very quickly into the ranks of qualified workmen.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the progress made, and could not he put greater push into the handling of this problem?

I am not satisfied with the progress in training in this country. I have already indicated that I propose to make a further statement in a few days, but it has to be remembered that the amount of statistical information as to what is required has been in process of examination continuously in relation to the programme that has been devised to meet the strategy of the war.

Would it not help to have publication in the Ministry of Labour "Gazette" of those detailed statistics which, for the first time, have been suppressed in the current number?

No, I do not propose to give the enemy the exact information that he desires.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is in a position to state why there are over 600,000 persons registered as wholly unemployed at the Employment Exchanges when it is known works and factories are short-handed and many are working overtime; and whether he will devise a scheme by which all registered unemployed can be made use of in the national effort?

asked the Minister of Labour when he will have brought into the war and export industries all able-bodied unemployed men and women who are capable of being absorbed into these industries; and thereby satisfy the country that we are organised for total war?

As the answer is somewhat lengthy I will circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity to make a statement to the House in regard to the position of the unemployed, because there is much concern about it in the country?

Why is the figure of 600,000 registered unemployed allowed to appear in the newspapers, if it gives information to the enemy?

The exact nature of the movement and disturbance in industry, published in the figures in regard to various trades, etc., is very valuable information to the enemy which I do not propose to give.

How many unemployed has the right hon. Gentleman been able to draft in, to clear up debris?

That is another question.

If this information will enable the enemy to judge of the Government's war effort, what information are we to have to enable us to judge of it?

Might I press for an answer to my request that the Minister should make a statement to the House?

If the information I give in the circulated statement is not satisfactory, then, if my hon. Friend puts down another Question, I shall be happy to make a statement, but I think the information I am giving is very explanatory.

Following is the answer:

On 16th September last there were 613,671 persons registered as wholly unemployed, of whom 318,214 were men and 227,293 were women. It is impossible in the scope of a Parliamentary Question to give in detail the reasons why these persons are unemployed, but my hon. Friends will be aware that at all times there must be a considerable number of workers passing from one job to another, and though every effort is made to move them without any intervening gap, it is unavoidable that many of them should be unemployed for short periods before they are fitted into new employment. The figure also includes a number of women who have registered for employment in war-time, although they are not normally in the industrial field. Furthermore, a proportion of these workers are the long-term unemployed for whom because of old age or other infirmities it is unlikely that further employment will be found. Panels of the local employment committees with the assistance of representatives of trade councils are reviewing the employability of all men who have been on the Register for one month or more.

In certain highly skilled occupations and in certain industries, there is an acute shortage of workers and the Employment Exchanges have been given, as one of their primary tasks, the duty of en-deavouring to fit into these occupations and industries workers who are unemployed in other industries, either immediately or after training, and considerable progress is being made in this direction, but I must secure a keener willingness on the part of employers and unions for developing schemes of training in the works. For this purpose, it is necessary to have the cooperation of all employers and unions in endeavouring to make use of substitute labour, even though this may necessitate a certain period of trial to allow the workers to get accustomed to the new work.

It will be appreciated that it is not easy to synchronise the contraction of peacetime industries precisely with the expansion of war-time industries. In so far as the contraction of peace-time industries is caused by the Limitation of Supplies Order, I have recently arranged with my right hon. Friends the President of the Board of Trade and the Minister of Supply to ex amine jointly the operation of the Order with a view to the mitigation of any effects it may be having on employment.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that persons sent from Employment Exchanges to Government munitions factories for interviews to see whether they are suitable for employment there have to pay their own fare both ways; and whether he will consider refunding this money, as it is hard on those who have had a long period of unemployment to be called upon to meet this cost when they are trying to fulfil the country's call?

I will send my hon. Friend particulars of arrangements which have recently been made to meet the hardship to which he draws attention.

asked the Minister of Labour whether there is any age limit beyond which unemployed persons cannot be compelled to accept employment on work of national importance at places a long distance from their homes?

No, Sir, but age and other personal considerations would be taken into account before directions were issued to take work at a long distance from home. I would point out that the power to direct persons to perform specified services does not apply solely to unemployed persons but to all alike.

asked the Minister of Labour whether there is an age limit fixed for any grade of workers in the munitions works set up by the Government; and, if so, whether he will have this position examined, and will make the test one of fitness for the work irrespective of age?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given on 7th May, 1940, to the hon. Member for Llanelly (Mr. J. Griffiths), by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Supply. I am informed that the considerations governing employment in the establishments under the Admiralty and the Air Ministry are similar. If my hon. Friend has any specific case in mind and will communicate with me I will have inquiries made.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is taking adequate steps to prevent the unregulated employment of young persons of school age; and whether he will issue a set of model by-laws whereby local authorities can regulate such labour, thus securing the advantages of additional output while guarding against deterioration of child health?

I have been asked to reply. The employment of children of school age is already regulated by Section 18 of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, and the by-laws made by local authorities under that Section. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the model by-laws which a great majority of local authorities have already adopted, and also a copy of a recent circular to local authorities.

Do I take it that the Minister is aware that there is still a considerable amount of unemployment of that character?

It ought not to be so, because the Act gives the relevant authorities appropriate powers, and the Act has been called attention to in the recent circular.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the local authorities are implementing those by-laws?

I am advised that the local authorities have adopted them. I cannot say whether they are fully implemented in each case, but I think the best remedy there is for local public opinion to take the matter up.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider holding an inquiry into the effects of continuous night employment upon the health and output of male young persons between 16 and 18 years of age?

Special inquiries have already been instituted as to whether the more extensive night employment of youths between 16 and 18 under war conditions is producing ill-health or undue fatigue. The matter will continue to be closely watched and my hon. Friend may rest assured that if ill-effects are found to be resulting appropriate action will be taken.

Does not the Minister agree that continuous night employment of persons of that age must be detrimental to them?

I have discouraged as far as I can night work for a youth of that age.

Does the work of the Industrial Health Research Board continue, in spite of the fact that the Secretary has other duties?

Yes, Sir. Inquiries are being carried on continuously by the experts on the Industrial Health Research Board, and none of the work has been stopped, in spite of the extra duties which exist.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give the number of persons, male and female, who have been transferred from the printing industry to munitions up to the latest most convenient date?

Up to the end of July last, 1,562 printing trade operatives were placed in other employment, mainly in engineering under a special scheme sponsored by the Joint Industrial Council of the Printing and Allied Trades for the transfer of available printing trade workers to munitions work. Later figures have not been collected, but I understand that the scheme is continuing to make satisfactory progress in most districts. My officers are in close touch with the Joint Industrial Council in regard to any difficulties which may arise.

Does not this transfer account for the fact that we are not able to get the OFFICIAL REPORT printed so that it is available for Members the next day?

It may be that bullets to kill Germans are even more important than the OFFICIAL REPORT.

What does my right hon. Friend mean by that statement? May I ask him whether he thinks that because he has become a member of the Government we need not trouble about our democratic institutions?

No, I apologise. I probably slipped up by trying to be humorous.

asked the Prime Minister the nature of the work being carried out at the present time, on behalf of the Government, by Sir Henry Tizzard; and with which Department or Departments he is associated as scientific adviser?

It would not be in the public interest to disclose the exact nature of Sir Henry Tizzard's duties. It can be stated, however, that he is at present engaged on work on behalf of both the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Aircraft Production.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that this distinguished scientist's abilities are being used in the best possible way in the interests of the State and are being fully employed?

Yes, Sir. Sir Henry Tizzard is being employed in the best possible way in the Air Ministry and the Ministry of Aircraft Production.

Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that no one scientific professor or expert has got the exclusive ear of the Prime Minister in regard to matters of scientific research?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a good many people do not feel satisfied that this Gentleman is being fully employed to the best advantage?

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of persons who have been included on the Central Register; how many have been placed in employment; and how many now remain on the Register?

The number of persons enrolled on the Central Register at 30th September was 190,338. The number of persons placed through the Central Register is 9,001. On the last part of the Question, I would point out that the Central Register is not an employment finding agency; it is rather an inventory of the highly qualified personnel of the country, most of whom are already very busy. Placings made through the Register are generally transferences of people from work of lesser priority to work of greater priority. Accordingly, when persons are placed through the Central Register, their names are not removed from the Register.

How many of those on the Register are gentlemen of skilled experience in engineering and science?

I have not the statistics.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider cancelling the rule preventing members of his staff from approaching Members of Parliament in connection with grievances that may arise in connection with the Ministry's work, as not being in the best interests of efficient working?

No, Sir. Civil servants have ample opportunity of bringing any grievances to the notice of the Department, either through the ordinary official channels, through the Civil Service Whitley machinery, or through their staff associations.

Although there are those opportunities for Civil servants, is there any special reason why Civil servants should be debarred from requesting a Member of Parliament to take up a particular case or grievance?

I should think it a very objectionable practice, especially having regard to the fact that trade unions exist to which each man ought to go with his grievances.

Does that mean that a member of any trade union ought not to approach a Member of Parliament with a grievance?

No, but when a person is employed by the State and when he has proper machinery to which he can go, it is in the interests of the State for his grievance to go through that machinery, rather than that he should be able to get advantage by going to a particular Member of Parliament.

Is there anything to prevent representatives of associations approaching a Member of Parliament?

Certainly not. Representatives of associations, like those of any other trade union, have the right of approach.

As a number of people have the dual capacity of trade union leader and Member of Parliament, does the Minister's answer mean that Civil servants cannot approach a trade union leader who is also a Member of Parliament?

It is laid down that the case must be taken up through the proper machinery, and in every case I have had in which a Member of Parliament has written to me about a Civil servant, I have given the same reply. I think it is the correct practice.

On a point of Order. I want to ask you for your Ruling, Mr. Speaker. Even though an employé takes his case to a trade union, has he not a right to bring the matter to a Member of Parliament?

No point of Order arises.

On a point of Order. As there appears to me to be a new point embodied in what the right hon. Gentleman said, I beg to give notice that I will raise the subject at the earliest available opportunity.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give consideration to the appointment of small committees of local persons to deal with applications for grants from the Unemployment Assistance Board from people in distress consequent upon air raids, in view of the fact that there is considerable dissatisfaction in some areas in connection with the administration and that local people would have a better opportunity of recognising improper applications that may be made?

I have been asked to reply. I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the scheme for advances in respect of damage to essential furniture and clothing, etc., and not to the relief of distress generally. In the areas most affected by air raids, the Assistance Board are working under considerable difficulties but I will readily investigate any particular cases which my hon. Friend has in mind. I do not think any change is desirable.

Is it not a fact that these area boards delay so long in dealing with applications because they want to probe into the problem, and would not a com- mittee of local people act more expeditiously? Would the right hon. Gentleman consider that point?

I have not received any general complaints on the matter, and I believe that the officers are acting expeditiously. That is why I asked that a particular case should be brought to my notice.

I understand that complaints have been sent to the Chancellor of the Exchequer by people who have been trying to get compensation for 12 weeks?

I will gladly investigate the matter.

Are not the complaints widespread? In my constituency there are many dozens of cases, and there is necessity for a general inquiry.

If the hon. Gentleman will send me any particular cases, I will have them investigated.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will recommend to, or instruct, local authorities in control of public shelters used for sleep at night to make available in. all such shelters supplies of antiseptic and medicinal tablets or pastilles for free distribution with a view to minimising ailments and infection?

The medical aid posts at the larger shelters will be equipped with appliances and drugs based on a schedule recommended by the committee over which Lord Horder presides. This schedule includes some medicinal tablets.

Does that mean that whenever it is necessary application can be made for the distribution of these pastilles, and will my right hon. Friend agree that if the Government can freely distribute plugs for the ears, they can equally well freely distribute pastilles for the throat?

Whatever I am advised is necessary in the way of these provisions will be available for free distribution.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether in fact any of these pastilles are being distributed now, in view of the very great risk of infection which exists in many of the shelters?

In some of them they are, but our organisation is not yet complete, although we are developing it as rapidly as we can.

Will the right hon. Gentleman first make certain that every shelter has a first-aid post?

That is also a matter with which we are getting on as rapidly as we can, so far as the large shelters are concerned.

Will the distribution of these supplies apply to shelters throughout the country, and not to London only?

Yes, it will apply to shelters throughout the country.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will authorise the expenditure by local authorities for the provision, on the relay or some other economic system, of wireless apparatus in shelters holding a number of people?

I see no objection to the use of wireless in shelters under proper control, but as at present advised I do not think there is a case for its provision at the public expense.

As there is shelter only to a very small extent, would my right hon. Friend keep an open mind on this question and consider applications made by local authorities?

In view of the reduced service by the B.B.C., cannot some money from licences go towards providing sets?

That is a question for the Minister of Information. In reply to the first Supplementary Question, I would say that I do try to keep an open mind on this question but that the problem is to keep an open purse.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that old age pensioners and other elderly people who have agreed to be evacuated from London to institutions in safer areas, under assurances that they would not be deprived of their liberty, and would be treated with consideration, are in some cases being kept confined within the institutions, and that their food leaves much to be desired; and will he remedy this immediately?

I am not aware of any dissatisfaction, but I shall be glad to have any specific case or cases brought to my notice in order that they may be looked into.

When these cases, which are widespread, are brought to my right hon. Friend's attention, will he act promptly, as otherwise the process of getting elderly people out of London will be seriously checked?

Yes, Sir. If there are cases of persons whose liberty is being interfered with, we shall certainly send immediate instructions on the point.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will amend his evacuation scheme to enable the old and infirm who are unable to find billets on their own account, to be evacuated from London?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Members for Finsbury (Mr. Woods) and West Leyton (Mr. Sorensen) yesterday.

While I appreciate the difficulties referred to in that reply, can the right hon. Gentleman say that it is the policy of the Government to get these people out of London as soon as possible?

Yes, Sir. We are trying, as was indicated in the reply, to come to some special arrangement with regard to these people. I do not know how far we can extend this, because the difficulties are very considerable and are generally recognised. We shall, however, get them out as quickly as we can.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the magnitude of the problems involved in the evacuation, reception, and billeting of large numbers of people throughout the country, he will review the arrangements existing between the Ministry of Health and Regional Commissioners?

Some ten days ago I had a discussion on this matter with the Regional Commissioners and my Senior Regional Officers. I shall continue in touch with them on the important problems involved.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of these people are really war casualties, suffering from shock, and that there is an absence of bedding, cooking utensils, and boots and shoes, and will he consider the further use of large houses as communal shelters, and, if necessary, appoint a welfare officer in the regional area to deal with these specific problems?

That involves a number of questions which I am not sure that I can keep in my mind. With regard to welfare officers, we are already appointing them for this purpose. With regard to the other matters, such as bedding, my Department has issued hundreds of thousands of blankets and mattresses for this purpose during the last few months. On all these questions we are in touch with the regional authorities, although I appreciate that there is a good deal that we can still do to improve the situation.

Am I to understand that welfare officers have been appointed in the Home Counties and elsewhere?

Yes, in a number of regions. It is our policy to have these welfare officers appointed wherever the problem arises.

asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the successful results of the new inoculation of the Army against tetanus, it will now be possible to offer the same protection to the police, the fire services, and air-raid precaution workers in general?

This matter was carefully considered by my Department and the Ministry of Health some time ago, and the conclusion was reached that, for a variety of reasons, special measures of advance immunization against tetanus should not be extended to the services mentioned. I am advised that the normal method of inoculation after a person becomes a casualty affords an adequate safeguard against any risk of tetanus.

asked the Minister of Health if he will have an inspection made of the stations of the London Auxiliary Ambulance Service, especially Station 56, with a view to the provision of adequate sanitation, heating, cooking and, where necessary, sleeping accommodation before the winter?

An inspection of these stations is already proceeding and has included Station 56. The points to which the hon. Member refers are receiving attention during the inspections and will be carefully reviewed as the reports are received.

asked the Home Secretary whether, as he has the particulars of the 9,000 members of the British Union of Fascists in this country before the war, he can now say how many of these were interned; how many of the interned were released before 7th October, 1940; how many since; and how many besides Sir Oswald Mosley remain in confinement?

The total number of persons who have been detained under Defence Regulation 18B because of their association with the British Union is about 700. Most of them have appealed to the Advisory Committee, and the Committee are examining the individual cases as rapidly as possible. The number as yet released is about 100, of whom 78 were released before 7th October.

Is the Home Secretary aware that a considerable number of these people who may have been attracted by the attractive programme of this party are not really Fascists in intention; and cannot he speed up the consideration of their applications for a hearing, as some of them have pleaded for months for a hearing, and some young women especially who I do not believe had any evil intentions towards the State are lying in prison?

I have always thought, and I have learned increasingly since I have been at the Home Office, that the members of this organisation are a very varied collection of people. I appreciate that point, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that no undue delay will be caused. I am looking into the matter very carefully to see that the cases of these people, in common with those of all other internees, are dealt with as soon as possible.

How many of these 700 cases have actually been dealt with at the present time by the Advisory Committee?

I answered that question when I said that the number released is 100.

How many have been continued in detention, which is a different question from that relating to those who have been released?

I cannot give the figure, but there are some additional cases outstanding from the Advisory Committee, and certain further inquiries have to be made before I can reach a decision, but I will reach a decision as soon as possible.

I did not ask how many had been released, but how many cases had been dealt with.

asked the Home Secretary whether any steps have yet been taken to increase the military assistance for clearing up the débris in London?

Yes, Sir. Contingents of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps, now totalling about 6,800 men, have already been drafted into the London Region for work on the clearance of débris; and the military authorities have undertaken that a further 3,200 will be made available for this work in the immediate future. These figures do not take into account contingents of skilled men which the Army have put at the disposal of the civil authorities for certain specialist work in connection with the repair of damage caused by air raids.

Will my right lion Friend give consideration to getting the men at work clearing up the débris as early as possible, especially having regard to some of the bombed areas?

Yes, Sir. I appreciate the importance of my hon. Friend's point.

Who is responsible for billeting these soldiers? Is it the military or the local authorities, as there seems to be some misunderstanding?

The Army themselves, I understand, are responsible.

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that the efforts of the military are interfered with owing to the lack of transport, and will he look into that?

Yes, Sir, that is one of the elements of the difficulties which is engaging attention.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that these 10,000 men in all will prove sufficient, and, if not, is he taking any steps at all to recruit unemployed miners, in South Wales particularly, for work for which they are eminently suitable?

That is being considered, but there are other considerations, including billeting, which is a very serious difficulty in London, that must be taken into account.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is yet able to give an answer to the letter sent to him by the hon. Member for Rotherham some time ago, in reference to a complaint that a number of railwaymen had been refused membership of the Home Guard by a railway company owing to a secret report of the police; and will he give the necessary instructions that a copy of such report be given to the men concerned or to the secretary of the trade union to which the men belong?

If the police know that an applicant for enrolment in the Home Guard has a criminal record or has hostile associations which create doubt as to his loyalty, it is right that they should give this information to the military auhorities, who are responsible for the enrolment of applicants, and I could not agree that the police should be required to make public any such information. As regards the cases to which my hon. Friend refers, I have made full inquiries, and find that while a mistake was made, which I much regret, there is, from the police point of view, no objection to the enrolment of the men in question.

Will instructions be given to the police, or to the railway company concerned, to send that information to the man, and give him the opportunity that other employés of the company have?

I will certainly consider that point.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider advancing the licensing hours in evacuation areas on Sundays to enable the public to make use of public houses before the start of the night air raids?

Licensing hours are fixed within the limits prescribed by Statute by the licensing justices, after consideration of the needs of their districts. I have no power to vary the hours, and, on my present information, I am not satisfied that there are sufficient grounds for amending the law so as to give effect to my hon. and gallant Friend's proposal.

asked the Home Secretary why Siegfried Granaat, a Dutch diamond merchant and an anti-Nazi, who fled from Holland, has been interned in Pentonville Prison?

The detention of Mr. Granaat was ordered on security grounds. I am referring this case to the appropriate Advisory Committee.

How long is it likely to be before the case is heard by the appropriate committee?

I could not say, but I do not think there will be any undue delay. It must, of course, take its turn with other cases.

Could the Home Secretary not speed up all these cases of well known anti-Nazis? Is it not a scandalous thing that anti-Nazis should be kept in prison?

That is a matter to which I have given attention, and steps have already been taken to improve the organisation.

Will my right hon. Friend not increase the number of committees, if possible?

That has already been done, but I will certainly give the matter further consideration?

asked the Home Secretary why Prince von Stahremberg is allowed to serve the Allied cause, in view of the fact that General Toreau, who is anxious to serve, is still detained; and whether he will consider releasing him?

So far as this Question relates to Prince von Stahremberg, who came to this country with the Free French Forces, it is not a matter for me. General Torcom—to whom I presume my hon. Friend refers—is detained on security grounds, and on the information before me I should not be justified in authorising his immediate release, but his case is to be referred for further consideration to the appropriate Advisory Committee.

Does my right hon. Friend not appreciate that it seems monstrously unfair to the public mind that a man with the record of Prince von Stahremberg should be free while the general, whose record compares so very favourably with Prince von Stahremberg's, is languishing in gaol, with no charge brought against him?

I have already said that the case of Prince von Stahremberg is not my business, and I will not be drawn into any discussion about him. My responsibility is with regard to General Torcom. I have asked the Advisory Committee to consider his case, and I will carry out my responsibility when I get that committee's report.

When is that likely to be?

We must get on with the Questions.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that amongst 140 women prisoners recently detained at Holloway Prison are many detained under Section 18B; that there are only two w.c.'s available for their use; and whether he will take steps to put an end to such conditions, which would not be right for convicted prisoners, let alone for persons detained for preventative rather than punitive reasons?

My hon. Friend has been misinformed. There are 13 w.c.'s in those wings of the prison in which women detained under Defence Regulation 18B are accommodated. There are also additional w.c.'s in the exercise grounds, workshop and laundry. I know of no grounds for the suggestion that the accommodation is inadequate.

Is the Minister aware that certain damage has been done to those premises? If I bring the people who complain about it to the Home Office, will they be able to see a responsible official, to get the matter put right?

I do not think that those people can be brought to the Home Office, but I will consider any points that my hon. Friend brings to my notice. I only hope that those points will be more accurate than the statements made in the Question.

Has my right hon. Friend not received unsatisfactory reports on this prison? Will he send someone down to investigate?

This prison has often been investigated. There are problems there, and we are doing our best to solve them.

asked the Home Secretary whether a person whose house has been ruined as a result of enemy action and who sees his furniture amongst the debris, is entitled to do his best to salvage pieces; that much of this furniture when salvaged by a demolition squad remains on the pavement for days and seriously deteriorates; and whether he can look into the whole matter with a view to making better arrangements?

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been called to the fact that furniture rescued from bombed houses is often left stacked outside for days without any protection from the weather; and what arrangements are being made in such cases, either for storing or removal, in view of the fact that much salvage effort on the part of the air-raid precautions workers is thereby being wasted?

I have been asked to reply. As regards access to damaged houses, I understand from my right hon. Friend the Minister of Home Security that, provided collapse of the structure is not likely to occur, and that attempts at salvage do not hamper the Civil Defence services, a person whose house has been damaged by air raids is at liberty to remove his furniture from the debris, and to take it away. As regards the remaining parts of the Questions, the subsequent disposal of furniture is at present governed in certain respects by the instructions given to local authorities by the Ministry of Home Security. Under these some of the local authorities have made good arrangements for the removal or storage of furniture. Different aspects of the matter affect a number of other Departments, and, as my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary stated in answer to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for North Salford (Mr. J. P. Morris) on 5th November, it is now under urgent consideration by a joint committee of the Departments concerned.

Can a man be charged under the existing law with looting if he tries to remove his furniture from premises?

I do not see how he could if it was his own furniture. The point of the answer is in the danger to him if the building is unsafe.

Has the Minister come to any decision with regard to houses made uninhabitable?

That is another question.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will give an assurance that, inasmuch as demolition is a highly specialised undertaking, at least one expert worker is in control of each gang working in London?

If by "demolition" my hon. and gallant Friend refers to the work of demolishing a building after the rescue parties have removed from it and after casualties have been extricated, I would explain that the work is usually assigned to specialist contractors, whose employés may be presumed to have the requisite technical experience. If my hon. and gallant Friend has evidence to the contrary, I should be glad to receive particulars.

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that one of the most distinguished buildings in the City of London suffered more damage from the well-meaning efforts of demolition squads than from the bombs? I will give him particulars.

I was not aware of that, but if my hon. and gallant Friend can give me particulars, I will look into them.

asked the Rome Secretary whether, in view of the circulation among war workers in Belfast of seditious and subversive literature which derides Ulster's British connection, with the object of lessening their war effort in production, he will adopt the strongest possible measure to see that such propaganda is brought to an end at once?

I have not seen the publication to which my hon. Friend refers, but I am making inquiries.

I sent a copy of the publication to the Minister of Supply, and I understood that he had forwarded it to my right hon. Friend. It is a serious matter, and cannot be dealt with in that off-hand way.

My hon. Friend will know that there are certain delays nowadays. If he sent it to the Minister of Supply and it had to be forwarded, that may account for the fact that I have not yet had it. If it is in the Home Office, I will certainly look at it.

asked the Prime Minister what action the Government propose to take in regard to the approach made to them by the Common Council of the City of London with a view to the appointment of an advisory committee with the authorities concerned in rebuilding and replanning of the areas affected by enemy air raids?

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister gave directions that the communication referred to should be forwarded to the Minister of Works and Public Buildings and it is now having the consideration of my Noble Friend.

Is it not important that the whole question of reconstruction should have Cabinet consideration?

The matter is being referred, first of all, to the Minister of Works and Public Buildings.

asked the Home Secretary how many Italian Fascists were interned when Italy declared war on this country and how many have since been released; how many Italian anti-Fascists were interned at the same time and how many still remain in prison; whether Raffaelo Vineis, in particular, is still in prison; and whether he will examine the police report on this man in order to review the action of the London police?

On the outbreak of war with Italy the internment of some 4,200 Italians was affected. As there had been no such classification of the Italian population, as had been undertaken in the case of the Germans and Austrians, it is not possible to state how many of the persons interned were Fascists and how many anti-Fascists, but there was evidence that at least some 700 of them were or had been members of the Italian Fascist Party. Some 410 Italian internees have since been released. The case of Raffaelo Vineis, who is still interned, is being referred to the Advisory Committee set up in pursuance of Section C of the White Paper. I know of no police report relating to the question of his internment, but if my hon. Friend will give me particulars of any complaint which he has in mind I shall be glad to make inquiries.

Am I to understand that these people are not interned by the police on their own knowledge of the facts? How many of those 400-odd who have been released were released because they were anti-Fascists, and how many because they were rich?

I cannot give the numbers in the first place. In the second place, I can assure the House that these matters are dealt with on merit. If my right hon. Friend is suggesting that I, in dealing with these cases, am influenced by whether people are rich or not, it is a suggestion that I repudiate. On the other point, I cannot give the information.

Can the Home Secretary answer the Question on the Paper? How many of those Italians who have been released are anti-Fascists, and how many are Fascists? Can he give any other explanation of the release of the Fascists?

These cases are dealt with on their merits, and after the most careful consideration; but, in view of the fact that there was no precise classification of political opinions when the people were interned, I am not in a position to give that information.

rose—

I must have an answer to my Question. [Interruption.] On a point of Order. I have put down a Question about the release of these people, and am I not entitled to ask on what grounds they are released except on account of their views?

My right hon. Friend has the impression that people are interned or not interned according to their political opinions entirely. That is not so. The fundamental question is the security of the State. On that matter, political opinions may be a consideration, but they are not necessarily the determining factor which settles internment.

May I ask a Supplementary Question?

rose—

The right hon. Gentleman has put three Supplementary Questions, and I have not put one at all.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the Air-Raid Precautions Department of the Home Office is inaccessible by telephone throughout the period of an air-raid warning, even when no aircraft are overhead; and whether he will give directions to remedy this?

The hon. Member's statement is true only as regards one of the four buildings occupied by the Ministry of Home Security. In that building the telephone room is in an exposed position on the top floor: there is no basement for shelter and the staff cannot safely continue at work after an alert. Arrangements are in progress for housing them elsewhere, but in the meantime, special arrangements have been made to secure attention to telephone inquiries.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been drawn to the difficulty in obtaining evidence of definite identity of persons killed and badly mutilated in the air raids; and whether, as the procedure of presumption of death in the High Courts is expensive, he will give consideration to some simplified and less expensive method of issuing certificates?

My attention has been drawn to the difficulty which the hon. Member mentions, and the question of devising a simple procedure to meet it is at present under consideration.

asked the Home Secretary whether he proposes to supply waterproof capes for air-raid wardens or to authorise their purchase by local authorities, because the use of the light oilskin jackets from the anti-gas equipment, as suggested in Home Office Circular 253/40, is undesirable, being likely to imperil the efficiency of the anti-gas services and insufficient protection for wardens during long periods of bad weather?

asked the Home Secretary what action he proposes to take to provide adequate winter clothing for all personnel of the air-raid precautions services?

I have this matter under review and hope to be in a position to make a further statement shortly.

Is the Minister aware that this matter was put to his Department at the beginning of the severe winter of last year, and that it is really necessary that these people should have adequate protection during the coming winter?

I have given the matter very urgent attention, and I hope to make a statement very shortly; indeed, I will try to do so this week.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that there is still a considerable shortage of shelters in Birmingham which can only be remedied by an increase in the supply of cement, and will he, in consultation with the Minister of Supply, speed the delivery of this commodity in view of the dangers to those living in this vulnerable area?

I am informed by the Regional Commissioner that he has devoted to the needs of Birmingham as large a proportion as can be justified of the amount of cement which I have been able to place at his disposal from the Departmental quota.

Cannot the Minister urge the Cement Board to do something, in view of the great shortage in Birmingham of requisite shelter?

I will do my best, but unfortunately there are shortages generally.

Is it not a fact that the cause of it is bad representation by the Birmingham Members?

asked the Home Secretary whether he will authorise occupiers or landlords of bombed dwellings to spend some small sum, say £5 or £10, on urgent repairs, such as blocking broken windows or covering roofs pending sanction of proper repairs by the local authorities, since, if the weather be adverse, far greater damage may be caused by the inevitable delay in obtaining permission to proceed with repairs?

I am afraid that the arrangement suggested by my hon. and gallant Friend would only lead to greater competition for the services of local builders, and would therefore be likely to lead to a net delay in the work being done. Under the Housing (Emergency Powers) Act, 1939, local authorities are empowered to finance repairs which they are satisfied are necessary and which have been carried out under arrangements made by them or with their prior approval. In such cases the cost forms a charge on the property, but no payment is required from the owner until after the war. Unless, therefore, an owner is prepared to meet the cost of repairs himself he should consult the local authority before taking action. Such consultation should not involve any appreciable or avoidable delay.

Cannot men be authorised to buy a bit of wood, cardboard or material for temporary repairs right away? It is all very well to say that delay does not matter, but in bad weather it does matter.

I do not think there is any delay if a person gets in touch with his local authority at once. The whole of the building labour required is employed steadily on this work, and local authorities must be the effective co-ordinating bodies.

Cannot a man pay for the material himself and do the work himself and get the money back later after he has done his quick repair?

I think that would lead to increased competition for this labour and material and in the long run would cause greater delay.

There are thousands of damaged windows in London, particularly in the East End. Cannot the Minister advise people as to the best way to get glass to replace them?

It is not our policy to replace the glass in these windows under present conditions. There are substitutes which are being used and which are much more effective for short-term purposes, and they are nearly or equally as effective in keeping out wind and rain.

But many people have to board up their windows and have only artificial light for day as well as night.

There are adequate supplies of substitutes which admit light.

Could not the Minister expedite the replacing of roofs, because furniture inside damaged houses is rapidly deteriorating through the weather?

Certainly, Sir. We are doing all we can, and we appreciate that the question of roofing is as important as any. But the real trouble in London is the shortage of skilled labour, and we are taking every step possible to increase the supply.

Is the Minister aware that local authorities are not carrying out this work expeditiously and that it is not entirely necessary to have skilled labour to board up windows? Will he make arrangements whereby owners who can provide for themselves, as they often can, can be reimbursed afterwards by the local authorities?