asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the representations of the Scottish Livestock Salesmen's Association submitted to him, to the Minister of Food and to the Secretary of State for Scotland relative to the work done for the Government by these salesmen, the amount of public money involved and the necessity for the work being done by skilled men; and whether he has any statement to make regarding reserving or calling up of these men under the Armed Forces Act?

I have the representations under consideration. I would, however, remind my hon. and learned Friend that arrangements were made last July for the deferment for a limited period of the calling-up of men of the classes concerned who were engaged on essential work and could not immediately be replaced.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is a difference between these men in Scotland and their confreres in England in that the Scottish salesmen do not do estate agency work and accordingly have no estate agency staff; and also that their work is highly skilled, that there are only 100 of them, and that they handle stock involving about £20,000,000 to £30,000,000 worth of Government money in a year?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered requests from any of the war agricultural committees to supply labour for work on the land of an essential character through his Department; and what response has been given to this request?

Demands for labour by County War Agricultural Executive Committees are notified to Employment Exchanges and are dealt with through the normal machinery of the exchanges. In addition, officers of my Department serve on the labour sub-committees of the County War Agricultural Executive Committees and maintain continuous contact with those committees. As to the general labour supply position in the industry, I would refer the noble Lord to the reply I gave on 17th December to the Question put by the hon. and gallant Member for Buckrose (Major Braithwaite).

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in the case of at least one war agricultural committee who have a large programme of hedging and ditching to do, they have asked for hundreds of men from the Department and have received the reply that they could be supplied with only 10? What does he propose to do in order to deal with this most essential question; and is there any connection between him and the Minister of Agriculture on the subject?

Yes, Sir; I have put proposals to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture to deal with the whole problem of draining, hedging and ditching on rather a different footing from the practice which has been adopted hitherto, and they are now under consideration.

Will my right hon. Friend be in a position to make an announcement on this scheme when the House resumes?

I should hope so.

asked the Minister of Labour how many wholly unemployed and part-time unemployed, respectively, signed the register at the Barnsley Employment Exchange for the most recent date and the comparative date in 1939 and 1938?

I will send the desired figures to my hon. Friend.

Can my right hon. Friend state whether there is any appreciable improvement, and are as effective steps as possible being taken to place those who are still out of work?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Labour to what extent he is using his powers to direct unemployed labour to accept work of national importance in preference to more highly-paid work of a non-essential nature?

There has been in recent months a large transference of labour from less essential to more essential work. This has been effected mainly by voluntary methods, but these have been supported by inspections made by my munitions labour inspectorate and by the compulsory enforcement of the Undertakings (Restriction on Engagement) Order. Moreover, where I am satisfied in individual cases that it is desirable in the national interest to exercise my powers of issuing directions I do not hesitate to do so.

Is it not the fact that war industries require considerable additional manpower and yet a very large number of men are remaining out of them, because, quite properly, they think they can gain more money by so doing; and has my right hon. Friend the power to put this right, and, if not, will be obtain the power?

I would like to have notice of that question and the facts associated with it. I do not accept them.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in Durham some 11,000 men have willingly been transferred and are showing a spirit in keeping with the national cause that is really commendable; and can he explain to the House why there are all these questions doubting the value and the real spirit of the men in their attitude towards the war effort?

Is it not the fact that while many men take the national viewpoint, others do not?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that certain firms offer considerable bonuses, and that it is a temptation to men to go from factory to factory in order to obtain the highest bonus and wage rates; and will he consider arranging for more uniformity in regard to this matter?

I think the necessary step that I may have to take is to prosecute employers who will not honour undertakings.

asked the Minister of Labour, whether, in view of the unemployment among women in certain areas, he will consider with the appropriate Departments the advisability of giving facilities to the older of these women for engaging in new work directly concerned with the war effort, and so enabling the younger women to be more fully engaged in their normal employment?

I am not sure what my hon. Friend has in mind, as in general I should have expected younger women to come forward first for war work, particularly if it involves transfer to other districts. Opportunities for employment are however brought to the notice of all women registered as unemployed at the Employment Exchanges, and, as I stated in my reply on 12th December to the Question put by my hon. and gallant Friend the member for the Chatham Division of Rochester (Capt. Plugge), there are large numbers of openings for women in the various services, particularly the A.T.S. Opportunities for training are also available to women either with employers or under the Schemes administered by my Department.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this Question was put on the Order Paper in view of representations made to me by older working women in my district who were acquainted with munition work in the last war? Is he further aware that it was put forward with an altruistic motive, namely, to help the younger women to establish themselves and continue in their own industry?

I think that a great deal of what I call immobility among women is due to domestic circumstances and age, and to the closing down of certain works in districts under other orders. I can assure my hon. and learned Friend that I have asked the local employment committees to examine each case. Where women cannot be moved into suitable national work, I am bringing the circumstances to the notice of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply to see whether I can have work put in these districts.

Will the Minister bear in mind the previous experience of these older women?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that in certain parts of Scotland girls and young women are being offered employment in bombed areas in England under certification that, if such is not accepted, their unemployment benefit or other allowance will be cut off; and whether effective steps will be taken to find employment for these girls and young women in Scotland?

My hon. and learned Friend has written to me on a particular case. I am having inquiries made and will communicate the result to him in due course. He will be aware that claims for benefit are decided, not by me, but by the independent statutory authorities. With regard to the second part of the Question, efforts are always made, subject to the relative priority of different classes of employment, to find work for people near their homes if possible. The requirements of the munition factories must, however, be regarded as of first importance.

Is the Minister aware that, although I have sent him only one case, there are many others?

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the large number of registered unemployed and the fact that in some districts no manual labour is obtainable, he will consider drafting these unemployed to centres where labour is required?

This is already the practice. Except in one or two areas the numbers of men available for transfer are small.

Is the Minister aware that where men who are in employment are transferred further afield to other jobs, they find them filled when they return to take up their original places and are often out of employment for some considerable time? Will he take action to stop this?

I am having a re-examination, with the assistance of the T.U.C. and the Confederation of Employers, of the whole working of the Order and the transfer schemes, and I am collecting the facts where hardships have been caused with a view to remedying them in a revised Order.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the progress of the work of the International Labour Force?

As the reply is somewhat long, I will circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the reply:

1. The International Labour Branch of this Ministry was created to be the instrument of a new policy in relation to Allied and other friendly foreigners in this country. This policy is to welcome them into the ranks of labour and the nation at large and to associate them to the fullest possible extent with our war effort in the struggle against the common enemy.

2. The I.L. Branch works in close collaboration, on the one hand, with Allied Governments, foreign trade unions in this country, and refugee organisations, and on the other hand with other Departments of His Majesty's Government, the T.U.C. and the British Employers' Confederation. A fully representative Advisory Committee has been set up to assist the Branch.

3. The Aliens Central Register, which was transferred from the main Central Register to the Branch towards the end of September, includes many highly skilled technicians and specialists. Placings have begun but there are still large numbers of men and women with high qualifications on this Register who are available for employment. They include scientists, industrial and other research workers, industrial chemists, aeronautical, civil, mechanical, mining and other engineers, not to mention a large group classified as linguists because of their outstanding linguistic abilities, but covering men who have held high positions in business of various kinds, banking, and similar activities.

4. In order to supplement the other placing machinery of the Department arrangements are being made to open central Employment Exchanges in the London area for certain nationalities, to be run on co-operative lines with the Allied authorities. The first of these exchanges—for the Poles—will shortly be opened and will be staffed jointly by British and Polish officials. Another office of the same kind is to be set up soon for the Belgians, and some similar arrangements are being considered for certain other nationalities.

5. Arrangements were recently made for admitting suitable foreigners to the Government training schemes and extending to them the same conditions as to allowances, etc., as are applicable to British trainees. It is expected that these arrangements will help considerably to absorb into the war industries numbers of men for whom employment in their own occupation is not available.

6. A special women's section has recently been set up in the Branch.

7. In the case of persons registered with the Employment Exchanges, the live register for the London area, which is the area chiefly affected, shows a decrease in three months (middle August to middle November) of nearly 4,000 men and women (from 10,286 to 6,305), the figure for November alone being a decrease of nearly 2,000, including about 1,000 refugees from Belgium, Holland and Norway. The number of employment permits issued for approximately the same three months for the whole country was about 7,000. It is the policy of the Branch to encourage the placing of foreign working men and women as far as possible by national groups; for example, Belgian, French, Norwegian and Spanish groups are employed in debris clearing and repair work in London; Belgians, Danes and Norwegians in forestry; Norwegians in rope works; Belgians, Czechs, French, Poles and others in engineering and aircraft works; Belgians, Dutch and Poles in diamond polishing and cutting; Belgians and other fishermen for Naval Auxiliary Service, etc.

8. The Branch is closely concerned with a number of steps that have been taken, or are still under consideration, for relaxing in suitable cases the restrictions on the employment of foreigners. Among these may be mentioned those relating to employment in auxiliary War Services, and Civil Defence Services, and the use of the services of medical practitioners and nurses with foreign qualifications.

9. The Branch is also associated with the consideration of arrangements by Allied authorities for administering with regard to their nationals in this country obligations of military service and civilian war service similar to those to which British subjects are liable.

10. In addition to these activities the Branch is interested in all matters affecting the occupational welfare of friendly foreigners, and even in general welfare questions acts as a medium for enabling Allied authorities and other bodies to obtain authoritative information and guidance.

asked the Minister of Labour whether it is open for members of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps to make application for registration on the aliens section of the Central Register?

Foreigners who are members of the Pioneer Corps may make such application.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that unofficial strikes are being promoted in munition factories by shop stewards who are working in the interest of a political party which is seeking to obstruct the national war effort and will he state what action he is taking in the matter?

I regret that there have been stoppages of work which have taken place in breach of the agreed procedure for dealing with disputes and before the constitutional authorities have had an opportunity of discussing the matters in dispute. Having regard to the persons concerned and to published statements, I cannot avoid the conclusion that in certain cases the stoppages have been caused as part of a settled policy. As recognised trade union representatives, it is the duty of shop stewards to act in accordance with agreements to which the organisations are parties, and I feel sure that the cases to which I have referred will receive consideration by the executives of the trade unions concerned. I have so far refrained from taking legal proceedings as I am convinced that it is the desire, as it is within the power, of the trade unions to take such steps as will maintain constitutional procedure and that in such action they will be supported by the general body of their members. It is, however, my considered view that, in order to avoid conditions which cause discontent, there should be established in all industrial establishments standing joint arrangements for regular discussion between managements and properly elected representatives of the workpeople of matters in which they are mutually interested. I would add that the time lost during recent months as a result of disputes has been exceedingly small and that, having regard to the abnormal circumstances, the general position is such as to give renewed confidence in the operation of voluntary joint collective machinery, supplemented as it now is by the provisions of the Conditions of Employment and National Arbitration Order.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, will he bear in mind that the people bitterly resent these Communist efforts to let down our fighting men; and will he also not forget that these very people who are now seeking to hamper us in our fight against Hitlerism were, before the war, loudest in their demand that Hitlerism should be smashed?

I will bear that in mind, but I also have to have regard to the fact that, if legal repression is applied too readily, without utilising what is the most powerful force in this country or in any other country—the voluntary discipline of the organised bodies—I might create a worse condition than I seek to remedy.

Will the right hon. Gentleman realise that time is of the essence of the whole matter?

I have already pointed out that the time lost by disputes in the last 12 months has been lower than at any period for the last 20 years.

Is it not the fact that during a period of vastly inflated wage rates, it is utterly impossible for the trade unions to keep control of the situation, and that the whole power evolves in the hands of the shop stewards?

I do not accept the view about inflated wage rates. My hon. Friend cannot have read the report of the actual return from 60,000 firms in the December "Gazette." Had he done so, I am sure he would not have used the term "inflated." The increase of wage rates since the war is approximately 10 per cent. as against a much higher cost of living. But I would emphasise the point that the more the men earn by way of bonus, which is based upon increased output, the lower is the cost of production.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I am perfectly well acquainted with the situation, and that what he has said has given a totally wrong impression?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange that men who would normally, on being called up, report for duty with the Armed Forces on 24th and 25th December, shall have their date for reporting postponed until 26th December?

No men will receive calling-up notices requiring them to report on 24th or 25th December.

Is the Minister aware that this decision will give great and proper satisfaction?

asked the President of the Board of Education what arrangements have been made for the education of the children evacuated to this country from Gibraltar?

As the hon. Member will be aware, until very recently it was intended that the evacuees to this country from Gibraltar should be transferred before the winter to a more genial climate. As this step has proved impracticable, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health has appointed a Departmental Committee to make recommendations for the best arrangements for their welfare for a prolonged stay in this country, including among other matters arrangements for the education of the children.

asked the Minister of Health whether women and children evacuated from Gibraltar to London and not wishing to go overseas can be found more comfortable accommodation in the country than their present largely unfurnished rooms?

I regret that the pressure on the available accommodation in the country does not permit of the evacuees from Gibraltar being accommodated outside London. The question of their accommodation and welfare inside London is now under review.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he proposes to take to prevent parents from bringing their evacuated children back from the reception to the danger areas?

I am satisfied that it would be impracticable to enforce compulsory powers to prevent the return of evacuated children. In registering their children for evacuation in school parties parents since last February have, however, signed an undertaking to leave their children in the receiving area until the party with which they are sent out returns. My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Education and I have recently reminded local education authorities, the governing bodies of certain schools and the local authorities concerned with the evacuation and reception of children, of the importance of discouraging any return and of impressing on parents that if the Government's advice is ignored and children are removed from their billets, those billets are likely to be filled, and the children may not be able to return to them if the parents desire subsequently to evacuate the children.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will now make a statement on the compulsory evacuation of schoolchildren from London and other danger areas?

As the answer is rather long, I will, with permission, make a statement at the end of Questions.

Later —

I apologise for the length of the reply, but I think the House will expect me to make a full statement on the question of the compulsory evacuation of children from London and other danger areas. Since August, 1939, 456,000 or 84 per cent. of the schoolchildren in the county of London and East and West Ham and 223,000 or 83 per cent. of the children under five have been removed to safer areas. There remain 80,000 schoolchildren and 38,000 children under five in the county of London and 9,500 schoolchildren and 7,500 children under five in East and West Ham. The Government have again considered whether power should be taken to evacuate compulsorily the children still remaining, and I have discussed the matter once more recently with representatives of localities which would be most affected. They represented to me the deep feeling of many of the parents that they will not be parted from their children in these critical times; and advised me that the attitude of these parents is such as to make undesirable and even impractical any attempt to enforce evacuation. They did not think that any difference would be made by adopting the proposal to permit contracting out, which would either not solve this difficulty, or else largely nullify a scheme of compulsion.

This conforms with the view which I expressed on behalf of the Government in the Debate on 13th June last. It is a view which the Government still hold, and we have therefore decided not to adopt, in the present phase of the war, any general policy of compulsory evacuation. If a substantial number of children remain in London, two dangers have to be faced. The first is that if children were freed from school they would lose their education and become undisciplined. This we are seeking to meet, as hon. Members know, by enforcing attendance at school. The second danger is that, apart from the risks of bombing, children might suffer in health from the conditions of life in wartime London. I am glad to say that reports obtained by the Chief Medical Officer of the London County Council show that, while there are occasional cases of children whose health is affected, London children generally are healthy and their morale is excellent. Nevertheless, it is clearly undesirable that children should remain in London and other danger areas exposed to air attack and the risk of epidemics. While, therefore, we do not propose to make evacuation compulsory, we shall continue to advise and urge parents to send their children away.

But to the policy of voluntary evacuation there is to be one exception. There are occasional cases of children who are suffering from war conditions. I believe all hon. Members will agree that any child found to be suffering in body or mind from conditions in the danger areas should not remain in them. I am therefore taking power by a Defence Regulation to require any child to be medically examined who is thought to be suffering, or to be in such a state of health as to be likely to suffer, in body or mind as a result of war conditions in an area defined by an Order to be made under the Regulation. If the examination shows that the child is suffering or likely to suffer in this way, there will be power to require the child to be sent away from the area, under the Government evacuation scheme. There will be a right of appeal against the requirement to a court of summary jurisdiction. Lf no appeal is made or if an appeal is made and rejected and the child is not sent away, the parent will be liable to prosecution under the Defence Regulations. Such children will be cared for in hostels in the country wherever necessary. The Regulation will not apply to Scotland, where the conditions are different, and I contemplate that for the present the powers which it will confer will be applied only to the London evacuation area.

For children who remain in London and other areas exposed to attack the chief danger to health comes from living in shelters—particularly large public shelters—and I have been considering what can be done to minimise this danger. I propose therefore to take power by another Defence Regulation to enable us to arrange for the medical examination of children in shelters with the object of watching their health generally, detecting incipient disease and enabling direct medical advice to be given to parents. We are also taking power to examine any persons in a shelter who are thought to be suffering from an infectious disease or to be verminous and to require their isolation, removal to hospital or cleansing as the case may need. The Regulation will enable rules of this kind to be made for public shelters in any area in England or Scotland. I believe that by these means we can do much to safeguard the health of the public and particularly of children. But the safety of children in war-time is a problem which the Government will keep constantly under review and on which policy may have to be varied as the phases of the war change.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the vast majority of these 80,000 school children in London are still not attending any school at all, and, in view of the fact that many of the school buildings—more than half, I think—are being used for other purposes, is there any hope of these children attending school in the near future?

I understand that there are quite enough school buildings left for the schooling of these children. With regard to the question of getting the children to go to schools, my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Education is being exceedingly energetic in the matter.

Will a date be fixed by which these children should return to school?

That question will have to be addressed to my right hon. Friend.

While generally approving of the statement, particularly the conditions about education, will the Minister consider making regulations to prevent the return of children without reasonable cause, once they have been evacuated?

I did answer a Question upon that point at Question Time to-day. We have examined the matter carefully, and we have come to the conclusion that it would be impracticable to compel the children to stay in the reception areas. We are, however, taking all the steps we can, short of compulsion.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider the possibility of arranging for the inspection of children in shelters? At the present moment there is no proper provision for inspecting ordinary grownups in shelters. Will he reconsider the proposition that a health commissioner be appointed to supervise the health position in London, on the periphery and not merely in the centre?

Whether there is a health commissioner or not, if we are to have room for people in the shelters at all, it will clearly be impossible in certain cases to make room for the inspection of large numbers in these shelters. In those cases the rules will be so drawn that the inspection of children may be made either at the schools or the maternity and child welfare clinics.

In view of what has happened in the country and other places, and in view of the fact that the Minister is taking some compulsory powers, will he consider extending compulsion to the central areas, the target towns and other places of particular danger?

The regulations will be drawn so that it is possible to name any of the danger areas. At present I am satisfied that it is not necessary to apply this in the case of the London evacuation area, but the matter is kept under constant review, and changes are being made from time to time according to altering circumstances. Certainly there is no rigid attitude against the hon. Member's suggestion.

In his statement the Minister said that there will be compulsory evacuation of children who are likely to suffer from the results of air raids. Could he define that more clearly?

That is a ground upon which I would not presume to tread. It is a question for the medical officers.

Will the Minister be very cautious regarding any unnecessary extension of compulsion, and also will he pay particular attention to those young adolescents of the post-school age who may be affected by the war?

That is another question altogether. With regard to the first part of the question, I fully appreciate the strong and quite understandable feelings of many parents on this matter, and I can assure the hon. Member that we are proceeding with proper caution and have that point fully in mind.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he has taken to assist local authorities to start communal kitchens in the reception areas for evacuees; and how many local authorities have already taken steps in this direction?

Communal meals for evacuated school children have hitherto been dealt with by the Board of Education and meals for mothers and children by my Department. The capital cost of equipment and other approved expenditure has been reimbursed to local authorities by the Exchequer. Complete statistics of the provision by local authorities of communal meals are not available, but a large number of the local authorities in the regions which have received the largest number of evacuees have made arrangements of this kind for a proportion of the evacuees.

Is the Minister aware that many more evacuees could be accommodated in many reception areas if communal meals were more widely established, and will he see that local authorities are made aware of the importance of organising these as widely as possible?

Yes, Sir, we are doing everything we can. My own representatives are visiting local authorities and urging them on with this work, and I believe progress is being made on a considerable scale.

Will my right hon. Friend ask the Minister of Food to give increased supplies of food to these areas which have an enormous increase of population? That is one of the chief difficulties in the matter.

I will bring that point to the notice of my Noble Friend.

asked the Minister of Health whether foster-parents of evacuated children can be granted an extra allowance during Christmas week to cover the provision of small extras for the children in their care?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given on 28th November to the hon. Member for Mile End (Mr. Frankel) of which I am sending him a copy.

asked the Minister of Health the remuneration paid to official guides taking evacuees to their destination; whether the payments made are for out-of-pocket expenses or a fixed amount for subsistence; and, if so, what is the scale of payments allowed per day and per week?

The guides are either teachers, council officials or voluntary helpers, and the only payment made to them for this duty is the refund of reasonable out-of-pocket expenses. There is no fixed scale of subsistence allowance in view of the fact that the expenses necessarily incurred vary rather widely as between one destination and another, but any unreasonable item would be disallowed.

Do I take it that the question of 10s. lunches is incorrect?

I understand that that is entirely incorrect. The 10s. was for board and breakfast, including tea.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the many problems arising from billeting and the varying decisions given in different areas, whether he will summarise the procedure of billeting arrangements with a view to obtaining a uniform method to be followed in all areas?

I am in the next few days issuing a circular on the billeting of persons made homeless by enemy action and I will send the hon. Member a copy. I think that the procedure for billeting persons evacuated under the Government evacuation scheme is now generally well understood.

Does the right hon. Gentleman send a copy of that to the Regional Commissioners, or to all the local authorities in the country, or both?

In cases where the circulars go to the local authorities, copies also go to the Regional Commissioners, but there are certain instructions for Regional Commissioners alone which do not go to local authorities.

asked the Minister of Health whether a local authority has been empowered to insist on payment of rates where a householder has been bombed out of the house and the said local authority has not provided alternative accommodation and there is still a small portion of the furniture lying in the uninhabitable house?

I have no jurisdiction to determine authoritatively questions as to legal liability for rates, but I have recently issued to rating authorities a circular, a copy of which I am sending to the hon. Member, indicating the course which in my view might reasonably be adopted by rating authorities in the circumstances mentioned.

asked the Minister of Health the average number of times each mobile first-aid unit provided by Metropolitan borough councils has been sent out to an incident during the past two months, taking London as a whole; how this compares with the use expected to be made of these units and will he consider, in the light of the above facts, whether the services of the skilled nursing personnel permanently attached to these units are being utilised to the best advantage under the present arrangements, or whether some of them could better be transferred to more needed duties?

The average number of occasions on which a mobile first-aid unit has been sent to an incident in London during October and November is 4.4. In addition, the doctor usually accompanied by a nurse, has been sent out without the rest of the unit on 5.3 occasions on the average, making a total of approximately 10. Up to the present these units have been used rather less than was expected, but their use, which has proved of great value, must of course depend upon the nature of the incidents. The nursing personnel are available to help in the work of the hospital or first-aid post on which the unit is based and to reinforce neighbouring first-aid posts when necessary.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will ask borough councils in London and other provincial towns, to arrange for the temporary storage of furniture of families who have evacuated, as well as those who have been de-housed by enamy action?

I will certainly consider the hon. Member's suggestion in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Home Security who is responsible for the storage of the furniture of those who have been rendered homeless. I understand, however, that the matter is one of some difficulty, due principally to the shortage of suitable storage accommodation.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that panel doctors have, in many cases, made no attempt to adjust their consulting hours to black-out conditions and that in consequence very few insured persons attend evening surgeries; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this?

At the outbreak of war my Department recommended insurance committees to review the arrangement of surgery hours, having regard to the restriction of lighting and other war conditions. I have no reason to think that there is, at the present time, any general dissatisfaction as to surgery hours, but I shall be glad to inquire into any particular case of complaint which may be brought to my notice.

asked the Minister of Health how many day nurseries have been opened; their maintenance cost; and whether the mothers have to pay for their children attending?

The number of day nurseries established under the normal maternity and child welfare arrangements before the war was 103. The average cost was estimated at approximately 3s. per child per day, towards which the mothers were expected to contribute what they could afford. Most of these nurseries have been evacuated from the towns and have become residential homes.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make representations to authorities where married women have been asked to return to work to look over the hours so that they can fit in with the requirements of industry?

I am in constant touch with the Minister of Labour on that point with a view to the proper provision of day nurseries where war work is being done by women, and, if there are any cases which my hon. Friend has in mind, perhaps he will let me have the information.

I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to remember that some important industries are not recognised as on war work in the specific sense.

asked the Minister of Health how many day nurseries have been opened; and how many children have been sent to them?

Twenty-three day nurseries for the young children of mothers who are munition workers have now been approved. Full information as to the number of children sent to them is not available, but the number of places provided is 995.

I take it for granted that from time to time someone is sent to visit them and see that they are conducted properly?

I am not certain that there is anything like regular inspection, but they are watched irregularly, and we are satisfied that local authorities are making proper provision and that the maintenance of the nurseries is good.

asked the Minister of Health how many boroughs within the London region have now provided a medical officer in charge of shelters, a canteen or catering officer to supervise communal feeding, and a shelter welfare officer?

With regard to the first part of the Question, 32 boroughs have made arrangements under which doctors are present in shelters all night, or pay regular visits, or are on call if required, the exact nature of the arrangements depending on the size of the shelter. Eight boroughs have appointed doctors to the staff of the medical officer of health to assist him in the regular inspection of shelters. With regard to the second part of the Question, this is a matter for my Noble Friend the Minister of Food, and with regard to the third part this is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Home Security. But I understand that an officer to deal with general shelter amenities, including food, has been appointed in 24 boroughs. As regards shelter welfare officers I am informed that whilst boroughs have not been required to appoint such officers one or two boroughs have done so.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in spite of the figures which I brought to the notice of the Minister of Home Security a week ago, a shelter which he said was receiving his immediate attention was in the same position at midnight last night and this morning? Is there any hope of getting an improvement without greater executive power? The right hon. Gentleman is asking for trouble.

The Minister of Home Security and I had a discussion on the matter with representatives of the London Passenger Transport Board about a week ago, and since then some of them have been down to the tubes with Lord Horder looking into the matter. I am satisfied that progress will be as rapid as possible.

When are the Government going to appoint a proper shelter dictator?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the policy of his Department in relation to further provision of surface shelters?

The brick and concrete surface shelter, which I assume is what my hon. Friend has in mind, is one of the most rapid methods of increasing the amount of shelter available. It may well be, however, that in some areas the numbers of shelters of this type are, for one reason or another, adequate for the demands made upon them, and I already have this aspect of the matter under consideration.

Have steps been taken to make the roofs of these shelters watertight?

Yes, Sir. Advice has been given covering that point, as far as it is practicable now to apply it.

Will my right hon. Friend take steps to see that the local authorities, particularly in London boroughs, ascertain the number of people who are using the shelters, because, in some cases, a good deal of money is being spent upon shelters?

Yes, Sir, we do periodically get the figures, but I think my hon. Friend will agree that the labour would be too much if we tried to get them every night. We get them periodically, and sometimes they are comparable and sometimes they are not. I am anxious to get that information. On the other hand, improvements are being made which may increase the use of the shelters.

Is the Minister aware that some local authorities are continuing to erect shelters of the same dimensions, which are unsuitable for the provision of fixed bunks?

As far as possible that point has been taken account of.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider, in view of the fact that so high a proportion of the damage by enemy action is the result of fire, the setting up of a special fire prevention department by adding to the existing organisation in order to educate the public and force upon the industrial community their duty to take reasonable precautions by adequate watching, simple safeguards, and mutual co-operation?

I fully appreciate the importance of proper precautions to prevent fire, and a new division is being set up in the Ministry of Home Security to deal with them.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that Regional officers and fire authorities have stated that more than half the fires which have occurred already could have been prevented by reasonable precautions?

It is obviously not desirable to go into detail in public, but I can assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that I am conscious of the point to which he is drawing my attention, and I am taking all possible steps.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in many industrial premises where fewer than 50 people are employed, and where consequently there are no fire watchers, there are inflammable goods, and they might receive his first attention?

That will be kept in mind.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that many factories have been destroyed, or gravely damaged, by fire through failure to take elementary precautions; and will he consider taking powers, or enforcing existing powers, to investigate fires in all buildings and factories now subject to Government regulation and control, and to apportion blame on the analogy of inquiries into colliery accidents and losses of ships at sea?

In a number of cases the damage done to factories by incendiary bombs has been increased owing to a lack of adequate precautions, but I doubt whether the procedure suggested by my hon. and gallant Friend would be either practicable or appropriate in the case of factories damaged by air attack. Failure to comply with legal requirements would be a matter for prosecution.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the intimate connection between the substance of this Question and the compensation which is looked forward to under the War Damage Bill?

Yes, Sir.

Has my right hon. Friend considered the possibility of requiring the fire precautions officers, at any rate of controlled undertakings, to visit places where serious damage by fire has been done, and giving them instruction on the spot as to reasonable precautions which were omitted in those cases?

I will draw the attention of the appropriate Department to the Question of my hon. Friend.

asked the Home Secretary what steps are being taken, or are in contemplation, for husbands and wives of British nationality who are now detained in separate prisons to be interned in company in more comfortable circumstances?

As regards the few cases where both husbands and wives are detained in preventive custody under Regulation 18B, I am afraid it is not practicable to arrange that men and women shall be confined together in the same establishment. I am anxious, however, that provision shall be made to enable husbands and wives to see each other occasionally. I am examining this question and hope to be in a position to make a statement at an early date.

Will my right hon. Friend see that British subjects interned receive at least equally good treatment as that given to extremely hostile aliens who are interned?

Certainly, in principle that would be my wish, but the fact must be faced that the circumstances of administration are somewhat different. In principle it would be my wish that British subjects should not be treated worse than aliens.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in fact British subjects detained in prison have infinitely better accommodation and the cream of the accommodation in every prison?

asked the Home Secretary in how many cases the Advisory Committee, appointed to hear appeals from persons detained under Section 18B, have allowed a legal representative to appear before them on behalf of the appellant?

In no case have the Advisory Committee allowed a legal representative to appear before them to argue the case on behalf of the appellant; and in no case have the Advisory Committee felt it necessary to do so. In a few cases the Committee have asked the legal representative of the appellant, where such a legal representative has been instructed, to appear before them to give evidence on behalf of the appellant when he was able to do so, or to assist the Committee on the appellant's behalf in the investigation of the facts of the case. It should be borne in mind that in the vast majority of cases the appellants are quite unable to instruct legal representatives, and the cases where the Committee have been asked to allow a legal representative to appear are few. I explained the whole position with regard to legal representation in the course of the Debate on 10th December.

Is not the answer rather different from the impression conveyed by the Under-Secretary in the Debate last week?

I think that I dealt with this point in the Debate last week, and my recollection is that the answer I have given is in accordance with the statement I then made.

Is it the case that many of these persons are not furnished with any of the details of the evidence against them, are often asked questions that contain a false innuendo and are given no opportunity to defend themselves? Whether they are guilty or innocent, should not they be given a complete statement of the allegations against them?

The chairman of the committee informs the appellant before he appears before the tribunal what the specific particulars are. That is an instruction. Therefore, I do not think that any legitimate grievance arises on that account.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of these individuals have communicated with Members of Parliament alleging that they have been asked questions which contain innuendoes and that no statement is supplied at all? They are sometimes asked, "Did you say so and so?" but no proof or dates are supplied and no opportunity is given to see the evidence?

I should not like to express an opinion about that unless I know the context. Indeed, I am going through the process now of being asked questions on the spur of the moment. I think it would be most unfair to make any general reflections on the fairness of these committees. I have dealt with a large number of their reports, and I am bound to say that they are acting very fairly, and that, if they have a bias at all, it is rather in favour of the applicants than otherwise.

asked the Home Secretary how many appeals have been heard under Section 18B; in how many cases have the persons concerned been released; and how many persons were still awaiting appearance before the advisory committee on 30th November or near date?

The figures are 1,238, 315 and 341 respectively. The second figure includes some cases where release has been authorised without a hearing by an Advisory Committee.

As there were some 400 cases still unheard on or about 10th October, is the right hon. Gentleman really satisfied that the investigations are taking place with due expedition?

I think they are proceeding with all reasonable speed at the moment.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if the majority of the people referred to in this Question had had their way, the whole of the trade union and labour movement in this country would have been suppressed?

asked the Home Secretary whether a body known as the Air-Raid Precautions Co-ordinating Committee has any official standing or recognition?

No, Sir. I understand that this body is what is known to those well versed in politics as a Communist subsidiary or innocents' club.

asked the Home Secretary whether he can make any statement about the assistance given by the military to the civilian authorities in dealing with problems arising out of recent bombing?

Yes, Sir. The civil authorities are responsible for dealing with problems arising from air-raid damage. In cases recently when civilian services have been severely strained the military authorities have immediately responded to urgent requests for assistance made to them by the regional commissioners. I should like to express my appreciation, and I am sure that of the civil authorities concerned, for the way in which the military commands have been ready to cooperate and for the generous and invaluable assistance they have given, particularly in restoring communications and public services. Such assistance is to be called for only as a last resort and it does not relieve the civil authorities of their primary responsibilities, but the fact that military assistance has been available in an emergency has contributed in a marked degree to the resumption of normal activities in the areas affected.

Is it contemplated that any period will be set to the availability of the services, particularly in the Metropolitan area?

I am afraid that this is at the moment the subject of a little bargaining on both sides, but, frankly, I have to be a little careful, in justice to the military authorities, about the civil authorities not relying indefinitely upon military help and falling on their own feet, but subject to that we will do all we can. I am indeed grateful for the splendid spirit in which the military have co-operated with us.

asked the Home Secretary whether training courses for rescue parties engaged on work on demolished buildings, similar to the course established in London, have been established in other large centres; if so, how many and in what towns; and whether it is the intention further to extend this provision?

Schools similar to those established in London have been set up in all the regions for the purpose of training rescue party leaders; I will send the hon. Lady details of the schools. In addition, all scheme-making authorities outside London arranged for the training of their rescue party personnel by the leaders who had been through the Government schools. There is no present intention to increase the number of such schools.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been directed to a device now on the market, of which a sample has been sent him, for enabling householders to enter on a special form the number and location of the persons sleeping in the house for deposit in a prominent position near the house or with the air-raid warden, in order to facilitate the finding of entrapped people; and whether he will recommend its use?

I have received several devices of the nature mentioned. As regards the last part of the Question, the practice whereby householders display a notice or inform wardens of the position of their sleeping quarters or shelter is to be encouraged, but it must be realised that in view of the possibility of last moment changes in arrangements, too much reliance cannot be placed on this practice for directing the operations of rescue parties in case of need.

While recognising the difficulties, may I ask whether it would not encourage their use if some form were made easily available in a water-proof cover, such as the device I sent to the right hon. Gentleman, so as to make it easier for not very educated people to enter the particulars properly every night and keep them up to date?

I will consider that, but there is no guarantee that these particulars would necessarily remain accurate and it might lead to a good deal of loss of time by rescue parties.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that a public notice outside a house that there was no one at home would be an open invitation to thieves?

Would it not be better to spend more money on this than on ear plugs?

asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider the advisability of amending Regulation 18B made under 1(2)( a ) of the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act, with a view to including the principles of the Act of 1715, which laid down that a Member of Parliament shall not be detained until the consent of the House has been obtained?

No, Sir. I hope it will not be necessary again to exercise this power in the case of a Member of Parliament, but if in the course of this war— a war in which Parliamentary liberties and all other liberties are at stake—it should be necessary for purposes of public safety to make an order for the detention of a Member, I do not think it would be right that the Minister charged with this grave responsibility should be powerless to take action—however urgent the need might be—unless Parliament were sitting or were specially summoned, and until after there had been a Parliamentary Debate and a disclosure of the information available to the Government, information which may possibly relate to matters of a most secret character.

Will my right hon. Friend consider giving an assurance that if any future case should happen it will be automatically referred to the Committee of Privileges, so as to enable this House to keep a check on the actions not of this but of any possible future Government?

We found that course convenient and appropriate in the only case that has arisen, and without committing myself to some absolute general rule, I imagine it is the course which the House would desire to be followed.

Will the Prime Minister see that the Committee of Privileges appointed in such a case has power to find out some of the reasons for the action taken?

That is not the Question which I have been asked.

Is it not the fact that the Home Secretary has to inform Mr. Speaker when a Member is detained and that provides an opportunity for the House to take up the matter if necessary?

Has the attention of my right hon. Friend been called to a Motion standing upon the Order Paper in the name of the hon. and gallant Member for Epsom dealing with this matter, and will he give that Motion his consideration?

[ That, in the opinion of this House, Regulation 18B of the Defence (General) Regulations should be modified so as to provide that the detention of a Member of this House, under the powers conferred by that Regulation, should be reported immediately to the House and should not continue without the approval of the House after consideration of the charges against the Member and his defence against them. ]

I am ashamed to say that my attention has not yet been called to it, but I will see that that deficiency is repaired.

May I ask the Prime Minister, in view of his well-known support of all constitutional principles, whether he does not think that Regulation 18B could now be amended to introduce safeguards of a general nature?

I do not think the time has yet come when our dangers have receded sufficiently far for us to be able to relax the special precautions which the House has thought necessary, and to withdraw the exceptional powers which Parliament has entrusted to the Executive under the constant supervision and control of Parliament. The time may come, but it has not come yet.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the early closing of chemists' shops makes it difficult for persons working to 5.30 or 6 p.m., who have to visit a doctor, to get the medicine prescriptions made up before the shops close; and whether some arrangement can be made whereby chemists will remain open for a reasonable time to complete the doctor's prescription?

The general closing hours for shops do not apply to the sale of medicine, and so do not prevent chemists from making up doctors' prescriptions at any hour in the evening. Chemists who dispense National Health Insurance prescriptions are obliged to be available for service until the hours fixed by the local Insurance Committee who no doubt have due regards for the needs of workers in the locality. I have received no evidence of hardship resulting from chemists closing earlier on account of the black-out and air raids, but if my hon. Friend will send me particulars of any difficulty that has come to his notice I will have inquiries made.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is great difficulty in getting these prescriptions made up in country districts? I will send him a number of cases.

asked the Home Secretary whether, and to what extent, miners experienced in rescue in mining disaster work are being employed in rescue work in large centres away from mining areas; and whether, in view of the importance of employing the most skilled and experienced form of labour in this work, preference is being given to the employment of miners and other persons with the requisite kind of experience rather than to local unemployed persons?

On the first part of the Question, I would refer to the reply given to the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Mr. Cocks) on 5th December. As regards the last part, experience shows that special training is necessary for this type of work, but, subject to this, endeavours are made to obtain men who by reason of their previous occupation are likely to be most suitable for the work.

May we take it that no obstacles are being placed either by the Ministry of Labour or the local Employment Exchanges in the way of the employment of skilled men from a distance rather than unemployed on the spot, and that the relations between the two Departments are quite cordial?

The relations of all Departments are quite cordial, but I think the Question should be put to the Minister of Labour. I can only add that, so far as I know, there is no foundation for the belief which the hon. Lady has expressed.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my Question was put to the Minister of Labour but has been transferred?

That just shows how unfortunate I am.

asked the Home Secretary whether it is on his instructions that a book in the Penguin series entitled "Aliens" has been confiscated in several internment camps?

No, Sir. No such instructions have been issued. If my hon. Friend will be good enough to let me have some particulars to enable me to make inquiries I shall be glad to investigate the matter.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will take steps to ensure uniformity of treatment of the wives and dependants of men serving in the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps by the police authorities throughout the country?

asked the Home Secretary whether he has any information to give the House in regard to alterations as regards restrictions placed upon wives of men in the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps?

I have already had this matter, of which I recognise the importance, under consideration, and I hope to be able to make an announcement at an early date.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been drawn to a proposed antiwar convention which is being organised by the Communist party to be held in Manchester in January next; and whether, as the holding of this convention might lead to misunderstanding abroad and would be likely to hamper the British Government in its prosecution of the war, steps will be taken to prevent the holding of any convention of the kind?

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been drawn to the People's Convention advertised to be held at Manchester on 12th January; and, whether, since its object is to create an anti-war movement in this country, he will consider the desirability of banning the Convention?

This convention is being organised by the Communist party, who probably hope by means of such a gathering to gain some support from loyal people who have no intention of impeding the war effort and are unaware of the ulterior motives for which the conference has been organised. I must hold myself free to exercise, whenever the need arises, the power conferred upon me by Defence Regulation 39E, and it would be wrong for me at this stage to fetter my discretion by announcing beforehand whether use will or will not be made of that power. I will, therefore, confine myself to saying that one of the disadvantages of prohibiting the meeting is that such a course would not be likely to contribute to the enlightenment of those whom the organisers hope to beguile.

Does the Minister not realise that the danger of this convention is not from within this realm but in the misunderstanding that it may cause abroad about the solidarity of this country in connection with our war effort; and will he bear in mind also that the convention was condemned by all parties and, in particular, only a few days ago by the National Council of Labour?

I will certainly keep that point in mind, but, as I have said, and as the House would wish, I should have freedom of action, in the light of circumstances at any time. On the other hand I should not have thought that there was much misapprehension abroad as to the insignificant political influence of the Communist party in this country.

Is it not a fact the National Council of Labour has especially warned its members against having any association with the convention, on the ground that the convention was specially designed to weaken the Government's war effort?

Yes, Sir, I am aware of that, but I think the hon. and gallant Gentleman would agree that it would be wrong for me to regard myself as having to apply that view in this case I must regard the matter judicially. I am sure it would be the wish of the National Council of Labour that I should do so.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that somewhat similar conventions were held during the last war, and does he think we should be more reactionary now in regard to unpopular opinion than we were during the last war?

Is the Minister not aware that this is not a genuine anti-war conference but is merely conforming to the Stalin-Hitler Pact; and will he ask for a report from the hon. and learned Member for East Bristol (Sir Stafford Cripps) at headquarters as to why this conference has been convened?

asked the Home Secretary the difference in the hours of duty betwen established members of the fire brigades and members of the Auxiliary Fire Service, both in London and in provincial towns?

Auxiliary firemen are required to perform a minimum duty period of 72 hours a week. The hours of duty of members of a professional fire brigade is a matter for determination by the fire authority, and there is no uniform practice. In London, regular and auxiliary firemen perform the same duty period, and this is the general rule, though there may be a few exceptions.

Is it not the case that auxiliary firemen work very much longer than regular firemen, and have there not been complaints about it?

I should imagine these cases to be very few. It is a matter for the local authorities, but, in so far as I can take an active interest in a point affecting local administration, I will, if my hon. Friend will let me have particulars, consider the matter.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will issue instructions that fire brigade units sent on duty to a locality far distant from its own area should take with them food for their personnel?

Fire authorities have been instructed to provide emergency rations sufficient for a 24-hour period to fire brigade personnel who are despatched out of their own district.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that early in the New Year it will be incumbent on Metropolitan borough councils to frame their rate estimates for the ensuing 12 months; and will he indicate the Government's financial intentions towards these authorities before that time, seeing that present conditions will otherwise necessitate severe rate increases concentrated upon those people who have not left London?