asked the Minister of Labour how many men of military age are reserved or exempted as lay-preachers?

The National Service Acts exempt men in holy orders and regular ministers of any religious denomination from liability to be called up for service. Lay evangelists who are outside the scope of this exemption, but who have been engaged whole-time since before September, 1939, by a recognised religious body, in religious work analogous to that of a regular minister of a religious denomination, are reserved by the Schedule of Reserved Occupations and Protected Work; they number rather more than 400.

Does the Minister regard the Oxford Group as in that category?

No, Sir.

Why does the right hon. Gentleman take that view, in the light of the fact that members of the Oxford Group are full-time lay evangelists and have been endorsed as lay evangelists by the Archbishops, the bishops, the leaders of the Free Churches and the leaders of the Scottish Churches?

Within the meaning of the National Service Act and their liability to serve their country, I am not prepared to accept the Oxford Group as a religious organisation.

I am asking the Minister why he does not accept this expert opinion.

Why this persecution of the Oxford Group?

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Reply and the fact that it is felt that the Minister is making an unfair discrimination, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment at an early opportunity.

asked the Minister of Labour whether there is still a shortage of man-power for the nation's war effort; and why, during the month of June, it was necessary to pay £570,000 in unemployment benefit and £369,000 in unemployment allowances to persons, other than those in agriculture, whose qualification for benefit or allowances was their inability to obtain employment?

The Answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. The figures quoted by my hon. Friend are, in the aggregate, not much more than a third of the corresponding figures for June, 1940, and were further reduced in July last. They are due in part to the fact that industry is not yet so organised as to give completely continuous employment in all cases, and in part to the relatively small number of workers who, owing to domestic circumstances or other reasons, are unable to move to a district in which there is work available for them which they can do.

In view of the last remark of the Minister, may I ask whether he will consider pressing upon the Service Departments the desirability of spreading out the war effort to a greater extent, if practicable?

I am doing that.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, under the new arrangements, dock and riverside workers who, in certain districts were largely unemployed, will now be fully utilised?

Yes, Sir, subject to always having ready a sufficient labour force at the docks to meet ships arriving, and thereby facilitating immediate handling of cargoes.

asked the Minister of Labour what action, either by way of legal proceedings or under the Defence Regulations, has been taken against the trade union district delegate in an important ship-repairing area, who is reported by the Select Committee on National Expenditure to have fined members of the union who work overtime without his permission, to have required exorbitantly high rates of pay when his consent is given, to have been primarily responsible for resisting the introduction of pneumatic rivetting to expedite repairs, and to have insisted on the retention of an unnecessary man in the squad?

No action of the kind mentioned has been taken by my Department. I am not in possession of the evidence on which the Select Committee based these references in their Report, nor am I otherwise in a position to produce the evidence that would be necessary to support legal proceedings in a court of law.

Seeing that these allegations have been made by an extremely important Committee of Members of this House, did not the right hon. Gentleman think it was his duty to investigate those allegations fully and to consult the Home Secretary, with a view to taking some kind of action?

No, Sir. I am not aware upon what evidence the Select Committee based its conclusions, whether it heard the man, or what steps were taken. No name was mentioned.

Was my right hon. Friend himself informed by certain trade union delegates in a particular part of the country?

I get a lot of reports. Whether that is the same delegate or not the Select Committee has not advised me.

Does the right hon. Gentleman propose to ignore the report?

Is not the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that there is not an atom of truth in the charges against this particular trade union official?

I do not know the trade union official. I cannot go on hearsay.

In view of the importance of the question and the complete inadequacy of the Minister's Reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Labour what schemes are in operation for training the necessary personnel for staffing British Restaurants and factory canteens?

I understand that the existing colleges which teach domestic science subjects are supplying trained personnel for staffing British restaurants and factory canteens, and that, in addition, the Women's Voluntary Services have a scheme. My Department is at the moment considering means of supplementing the supply of personnel which is already coming from these sources.

Does the right hon. Gentleman really think that sufficient is being done by way of training for this important work, and will he consider the setting-up of a proper Food Service Corps with the same status as other War Services now in existence?

I am rather anxious to avoid this continuous setting-up of separate institutions. If I can co-operate with those which are already in existence and get the service, I think it is better.

asked the Minister of Labour how many men and women are employed in racing stables connected with the steeplechase programme for the coming winter; and whether those so employed come under any category of reserved occupation?

These statistics are not available. There is no reservation for persons employed in racing stables.

In view of the fact that some 600 horses which are not needed for the war effort and are not useful for the maintenance of English blood stock are now being looked after by these men and women, cannot their licence be revoked and they be put to more useful work?

asked the Minister of Labour whether the company, Trent Guns and Cartridges, Limited, have yet decided to accord recognition to trade union organisation; and whether Mr. Claud King remains managing director of the firm, in view of the unfavourable comments in the report under the Industrial Courts Act [Cmd. 6300]?

According to the latest information which I have, the answer to the first part of the Question is "No," and to the second part "Yes."

Does the right hon. Gentleman not intend to do something in a situation in which an employer is deliberately refusing to give recognition to a trade union organisation? In the light of the report, is it not necessary to take some very firm action?

The Government are now considering what steps can be taken.

asked the Minister of Labour whether it is his intention to exercise the powers conferred upon him by Defence Regulation 58AA to impose fixed wages in industries or trades which are not concerned in war production and in which there is no threat of disputes between employers and employees; whether he can indicate the need for the secrecy surrounding the deliberations of the retail joint industrial councils; and whether he will give an assurance that he will make no order imposing fixed wages in retail trades to the prejudice of the interests of small and family shopkeepers without prior notice to this House?

Regulation 58AA does not authorise me to prescribe specific rates of wages, but does empower me to establish a tribunal for the settlement of trade disputes and to require employers to observe such terms and conditions of employment as may be determined to be, or to be, not less favourable than the recognised terms and conditions, both of which I have done by the Conditions of Employment and Arbitration Order, which applies to the retail trades as to other trades. The decisions of the retail joint industrial councils would be taken into account by the tribunal in appropriate cases arising under the Order but are not in themselves of compulsory effect. I am not aware of any special circumstances of secrecy in connection with the deliberations of the councils, which are voluntary bodies and regulate their own procedure.

The Minister has not replied to the important part of my Question, in which I asked whether he would communicate with the House before making an Order fixing wages in the retail trades.

It is clear that the decisions of the councils are not subject to, and are not embodied in, an Order, In the case of any retail distributer before an industrial court, the standard rates of wages laid down by these councils are taken into account.

Is it not the case that the relations between organised workers on the one hand and organised employers on the other have become much better since these councils were established?

I am rather proud of the fact that, after about 10 years' deliberations, I have succeeded in establishing joint councils for the whole of the distributive trades.

If there is a dispute between an employer and workmen, would it not be a dispute within the meaning of the Act?

asked the Minister of Labour what are the exact terms of the instructions issued by his Department, either at London or Cardiff, to the effect that no recruitment of men and women registered at the Employment Exchanges at Abertillery, Blaina and Nantyglo for employment at works in Cwmbran, Monmouthshire, shall be permitted; and will he authorise a cancellation of such instructions?

In order to avoid unnecessary transport, recruitment for these works has been confined to Pontnewydd, Newport, Newbridge, Risca, Blackwood and Caerphilly. Under new arrangements which will come into operation on 21st September, it is expected that it will be possible to employ about 100 workers from Abertillery, Blaina and Nantyglo.

Arising out of that Reply, is it not possible to give some assurance that a larger number of men and women will be recruited from the areas covered by the exchanges referred to?

I will go into it, but it is no use recruiting people at too great a range from the works until transport is ready to carry them. It only causes disappointment.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will make a statement on the work of his Department in connection with the welfare of industrial workers outside the factory?

I have prepared a memorandum on the subject, which is being issued to-day in the form of a White Paper.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the fact that we are now in the third year of the war, schemes of training and employment for those disabled in it have yet been completed; and when details of such schemes are to be announced?

An interim scheme to assist the training and employment of disabled persons has been prepared and I hope to announce details at a very early date. As a preliminary step I have made arrangements, with the consent of Departments responsible, for the various branches of hospital service to start the interviewing of disabled persons who are about to leave hospital and who require help in regard to their employment prospects.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the question of the industrial training of such people, and will he have regard to the fact that there are many industries into which they might go other than basket making and things like that?

Certainly. We are taking a comprehensive view of the whole of this question of rehabilitation, and I hope we shall be able to lay the foundation of a complete rehabilitation service.

Does the reply include those who have been members of the Forces and have already left?

Yes, certainly.

asked the Minister of Pensions how many applications for War Service Grants have been received from officers up to the last available date, and how many have been sanctioned?

Up to 25th August the number of applications received from officers was 1,527. Grants were made in 577 cases, 42 cases have been withdrawn or lapsed, and 98 cases are still under investigation.

Could the hon. Gentleman say whether more publicity could be given to the fact that officers, as well as other ranks, are eligible for special grants, as the general impression appears to be that it is only other ranks which are covered by these grants?

Yes, we are of opinion that the small number of applications is perhaps due to the lack of publicity, and we are considering ways and means of giving it. We have already approached the welfare officers and the three Service authorities, and we are considering ways and means of using the Press and the radio.

Are not officers discouraged from applying owing to the fact that only one-third of the applications made have been granted?

That may be true; whether it is so or not, I do not know. We shall have to make inquiries.

How are claims made by officers investigated?

They are investigated by officers of the Ministry.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the principles embodied in the recent Determination of Needs Act for unemployment assistance will be applied to the assessment of parents' need pensions; if not, what difficulties exist; and what, in simple language, is the procedure to be adopted?

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he has yet applied the principles of the latest Determination of Needs Act to awards of pensions to parents; and has he reviewed the principle in regard to the award of pensions in all cases of bereavement resulting from the war?

Parents' need pensions have always been assessed by reference to personal needs, and no change is therefore necessary to conform with the principles laid down in the Determination of Needs Act. I have, however, made several modifications in the rules for the assessment of parents' need pensions, of which the major one is to disregard the following items of income which, by Statute, are disregarded for the purposes of Unemployment Assistance or Supplementary Old Age Pension:

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the whole of the hardship grant is fully taken into account for the purpose of a supplementary pension, so that any decision of the hardship committee is entirely overridden by the Assistance Board?

I am concerned only with my own Department. I will leave the hon. Member to deal with the other Ministries.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he has reached any decision, and can make any statement, on the pensionable position of dependants of a serving man whose death is due to accident unconnected with enemy or our own action; and what, in such circumstances, is the position of the victim if he is only injured?

The question of "off duty" accidents of the kind referred to is still under consideration, and I regret that I am not yet in a position to make a statement. With regard to the second part of the Question, a member of the Forces so injured would be treated for his injury by the Service in which he is serving.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he has been able to make any of the improvements in the provisions of the Royal Warrant for the present war which he foreshadowed on 31st July?

Yes, Sir; I am glad to announce that I have obtained authority—

asked the Minister of Pensions the date on which his Central Advisory Committee last met; whether any future meetings have been arranged; and whether he has now given consideration to the question of regular meetings of this body?

The last meeting of my Central Advisory Committee was held on 18th June last, and I am arranging for the Committee to meet again at an early date.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that ex-Private Greaves, 13000197, Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps, having served as a sergeant in the Lancashire Fusiliers from 1914 to 1918 was invited to rejoin in 1939, and, after passing seven doctors, fought in France, was in the retreat, and is now discharged suffering from tuberculosis, without pension, and that owing to his illness he cannot obtain employment and, being homeless, cannot obtain public assistance or admittance to hospital; and will he investigate this case with a view to bringing it within the scope of the Royal Warrant?

I am looking into this case and will communicate with the hon. Member.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain how it is that in all. cases like this we must take the medical testimony when the man is discharged, even if it conflicts with the medical testimony, seven times as great, when the man is admitted into the Army as being fit?

The hon. Member is evidently not aware that I have already announced in the House that where a man is passed into the Army A 1, and is afterwards discharged on account of sickness, I can take into account that fact in dealing with his case.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he can now give the House the information respecting political prisoners requested by the hon. Member for Leyton, West?

On 1st July those serving sentences in connection with the Civil Disobedience Movement amounted to 12,129, including 28 ex-Ministers and 290 members of Provincial Legislatures. In addition, seven of the former and 31 of the latter were under detention. I am informed that the other particulars desired by the hon. Member are not available, and their collection would necessitate special inquiry from magistrates and police stations throughout India, for which I am not prepared to press.

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that these figures are very unfortunate in view of our present international position?

Why do you not open the prison gates?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he has any statement to make concerning the resignations of Sir Sikander Hyat Khan and Sir Muhammad Saadulla from the National Defence Council; and whether Sir Sultan Ahmed is still a member of the Viceroy's Executive Council and Begum Shah Nawaz and the Nawab of Chhatari are members of the National Defence Council?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he can give the House any information respecting the resignation of two recently appointed members of the Governor-General's Council; and what reaction the Moslem League has shown to his recent proposals?

There have been no resignations from the Viceroy's Executive Council. As regards the newly created National Defence Council, its main purpose was, as I made clear at the time, to bring the war effort in the Provinces and States, as well as in the ranks of commerce, industry and labour, into more effective touch with the Central Government. It was on that basis that invitations to serve were issued to and accepted by the Premiers of the four Provinces in which the normal constitution has remained in force, in their capacity as Premiers, and without reference to the fact that three of them were members of the Moslem League. The Working Committee of the Moslem League, convened by Mr. Jinnah, has since called upon members of the League, including the Premiers of Bengal, the Punjab and Assam, to resign both from the Viceroy's Executive and the National Defence Council, on the ground that they had associated themselves with a step taken without reference to and against the wish of Mr. Jinnah as President of the League. These three Premiers have complied with the request of the Working Committee, but as has been reported in the Press to-day the Premier of Bengal has resigned also from the Working Committee and Council of the League to mark his dissatisfaction with the action of those in control of the League. The Nawab of Chhatari had previously resigned from the Defence Council on accepting the post of President of the Hyderabad Executive Council. Begum Shah Nawaz remains a member of the Council. There have been no other resignations.

Has not the Prime Minister of Bengal also resigned from the Defence Council as well as from the Moslem League?

Yes, Sir, that is what I said.

How far has this been brought about by maladroitness of Government representatives, which have rather claimed as representatives of the Moslem League representatives whom the right hon. Gentleman has himself defined as independent members?

No, Sir, I think it was made perfectly clear, both by the Viceroy and myself, that the purpose of the National Defence Council was to bring the Provinces and States, commerce, industry and labour, into closer contact with the Central Government. It was, of course, essential, as is always the case in India, that on any public body there should be a reasonable representation of the two communities, and this fact, I think, was misrepresented by Mr. Jinnah in order to secure the resolution which was passed by the Moslem League.

I am sorry to press this, but I think the right hon. Gentleman misunderstood the sense of my Question. There has been a statement that a representative of the Government claimed that these people represented the Moslem League, and that on that Mr. Jinnah had taken action.

No claim had been made by the Government that anybody has been invited as representing the Moslem League. A letter to Mr. Jinnah mentioned that the Moslem community was worthily represented, that is, represented in the sense that there was a reasonable proportion of Moslems to Hindus in the total. It was made amply clear that the basis on which these invitations were issued and accepted in the case of Premiers was as Premiers of their Province and that if they ceased to be Premier their places would automatically be taken by those who succeeded them.

asked the Secretary of State for India, whether his attention has been called to the difficulties placed in the way by the Indian Government of an attempt to start an Indian automobile manufacturing plant by refusing to release necessary machinery, and the provision of dollars to purchase the necessary material from the United States of America; and can the establishment of such an industry be used in connection with the production of war potential?

The difficulties are inherent in the situation, and I cannot accept the hon. Member's suggestion that they are due to the Government of India. The resources which the establishment of an automobile industry would draw upon are fully required for the development of India's war potential, to which, unfortunately, the project in question cannot be regarded as contributing.

Are any steps being taken to develop this industry as a postwar industry, in view of the very great concern in India and elsewhere about the future industrial development of India?

There is no reason why those concerned should not take any steps they wish, provided that they do not at this moment draw on labour and material urgently required for war production.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he has considered the implication of Point Three in the Eight-Point Charter signed by the Prime Minister and President Roosevelt in relation to India; and whether, in view of that declaration, he intends to take any further steps to implement the accepted principle of the right of all peoples to choose the form of Government under which they must live?

I would refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister's statement on this subject when addressing the House on 9th September.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the very great dismay with which this statement was received throughout the country, and that, in fact, numbers of people both here and in India want to know why it is that the principle should be applied to other countries and not to our own in this respect?

The Prime Minister made it abundantly clear that the principles which actuated the development of self-governing institutions within the British Commonwealth are the same which underlie the Eight-Point Declaration in reference to other nations at the end of the war.

Does that mean that the people of India will be able freely to choose their own Government?

The declaration of August, 1940, made it specifically clear that it was for the people of India to frame the type of Government they want themselves. It also made it clear that as soon as agreement was arrived at on that point we should use our best endeavours to settle other matters in order to bring them to a conclusion.

Are Questions like this likely to help the war effort?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he is satisfied that adequate periods for rest and refitting are being allowed to Indian units, which have thus far been heavily engaged in the Eastern campaign?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether arrangements are made to ensure needed rest for the Indian regiments which have done splendid work in the Near East, especially since most of the fighting hitherto in which these troops have been engaged has fallen to the same battalions?

I have every reason to think so, but this is a matter which the Commanders-in-Chief concerned must consider in the light of all their responsibilities. If my hon. Friends have any information bearing on the point, I am sure my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War will give it every consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the Parliament of Northern Ireland has in any way signified its assent to the detention of one of its members, Mr. Cahir Healy?

No question of any assent by the Parliament of Northern Ireland arises in this case. The responsibility for the detention of Mr. Cahir Healy under the Defence Regulation rests entirely on me.

Has any explanation of the reasons for which this Member has been detained been given to the Parliament of Northern Ireland?

The fact of his detention was reported to the Northern Ireland Parliament by the Speaker, and I have indicated the reasons for his detention in answer to Questions in this House.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will withdraw the instructions regarding air-raid casualties and damage to houses inquiries contained in Home Security Circular 116/1941 and revert to the former practice of the police dealing with such inquiries which is working most satisfactorily?

No, Sir. The Circular merely gives guidance to local authorities on the carrying out of a reponsibility which was already theirs, and in my view it represents an arrangement which best meets the needs of the situation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the police have all the information which is required and have in existence the machinery for answering such inquiries and that that machinery is working perfectly satisfactorily, whereas local authorities will have to set up a new organisation to deal with these inquiries? Does he not think it better to leave things as they are?

The general practice is that the local authority takes care of this part of administration. It is convenient for people to communicate to one recognised point in the locality the town hall. I think this is the most convenient arrangement, which ought to be on a national pattern.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is in a position to say if the demand for the table-form indoor shelter is being met; and when those who have applied for same will be supplied?

The indoor table shelter is being distributed in as many areas as the supply position permits and allocations to those areas are made on the basis of the actual number of applications received by the local authorities concerned. Allocations are keeping pace with applications and delivery to the local authorities is effected as soon as possible after allocation.

asked the Home Secretary whether he can make any statement concerning the new arrangements for fire watching?

As a result of consultations with representatives of the Trades Union Congress and employers' organisations and other bodies interested, including local authorities, it has been decided to introduce a number of important alterations in the scheme for business premises. A new Order—the Fire Prevention (Business Premises) (No. 2) Order, 1941—has been drafted and an explanatory memorandum for the guidance of all concerned will be issued with the revised Order. On the coming into force of this Order the existing Business Premises Order and the Fire Watchers Order of September, 1940, will be revoked. Compulsory enrolment for part-time service with a local authority's Fire Guard is being put into force in areas in which the Business Premises Order applies and certain changes in the compulsory enrolment scheme are being made at an early date. It is impracticable within the compass of an answer to a Question to give details of the amended procedure to operate under the two Orders, but a public statement will be made in the course of the next few days.

If there is a quarrel between the Regional Controller and the Local Controller, who is the deciding factor?

The Regional Commissioner is top dog and, finally, I am.

Where the Business Order has not been put into force, is the new Order still to be made operative?

No, the compulsory enrolment Order will not be operative in the areas where the Business Order does not apply. Areas where the Business Order does apply cover the great bulk of the population in all the vulnerable areas of the country.

Does the new Order apply although it is not in force when enrolment takes place?

No, enrolment does not take place in areas other than where the Business Order applies.

asked the Home Secretary why the Regional Commissioner for South-East England has issued instructions in accordance with which it is necessary to immobilise unregistered motor-cars more rigidly than registered motor-cars?

The object of the direction issued by the Regional Commissioner for the South-Eastern region for the immobilisation of unlicensed private vehicles was to ensure that such vehicles could not be suddenly recommissioned for purposes contrary to the public interest in the event of an invasion.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been called to the "Workers' Gazette," the publication of which appears to be in continuation of, or in substitution for, the publication of the "Daily Worker," and whether he has taken any action against those concerned for contravention of Defence Regulation 2D?

I did not fail to consider the question raised by my hon. Friend, but I do not think it would be right for me to say more than that any future developments will be watched carefully.

Would not the Minister solve this whole problem and save a lot of trouble and add very much to the production of the country if he were sensible enough to withdraw the ban on the "Daily Worker"?

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that, as lately as 18th August, the Ulster Customs House between Londonderry and Donegal was shut at 6 p.m., after which hour motorcars from Eire passed without challenge; and what action he has taken in the matter?

The Customs authorities have, I understand, an arrangement by which motor-cars which are not carry- ing merchandise and are not themselves being imported or exported as merchandise are allowed to cross the border at times when the Customs house is closed, provided they carry a pass designed to safeguard revenue interests; but vehicles crossing the border at any time are liable to challenge by special patrols, and the fact that it has not been found necessary for Customs purposes to have Customs officers on duty after certain hours does not mean that the question of security arrangements after those hours has been overlooked.

Does my right hon. Friend mean that smugglers shut down their business at 6 p.m. like the Customs house?

No, Sir; that is why we keep observation.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that, on the border between Northern Ireland and Eire, illicit traffic and the transmission of information useful to the enemy seem to increase, despite all efforts to bring them to an end; and whether he will adopt more drastic methods for dealing with this menace to the success of our war effort?

There is nothing which I can usefully add to the reply I gave on 31st July to Questions on this subject.

Is my right hon. Friend not satisfied that far stronger measures are required to deal with this danger, not only to Britain but to the Empire, to our success in the war and our security?

If my hon. Friend has concrete evidence which supports the very general allegations made in his Question I think it is his duty to let me have it privately, but if he has not that evidence he ought not needlessly to spread alarm and despondency.

My right hon. Friend can obtain full information of what is transpiring on the Border through the Press; he does not need to appeal to me for it.

asked the Home Secretary the total number of persons employed in London Regional Headquarters for Civil Defence on 1st August, 1940, and 1st August, 1941, respectively; and the reason for the increase?

The total number of persons employed in London Regional Headquarters for Civil Defence on 1st August, 1940, was 280, and on 1st August, 1941, was 551. These figures included 40 and 84 officers respectively who are attached to Regional Headquarters from other organisations. In addition, on the 1st August, 1941, 89 officers, although employed by the regional commissioners, were not working at Regional Headquarters but with local authorities and military units in the region. The increase in staff has been made necessary by the organisation, as the result of war experience, of new services such as fire prevention and the clearance of debris. In addition, there has been a large delegation of powers to the regional commissioners by myself and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health; in particular, the improvements in the provision, organisation and control of shelters have required considerable staff. My hon. Friend will not forget that in August, 1940, there had been no heavy raiding, and that since that date we have passed through a winter of blitzes. We must be prepared for another winter of heavy raiding.

Is it not the case that the local authorities have full control and are responsible for all these local services, and that this central Regional Headquarters are mainly called upon to act only in a supervisory capacity? Is such a large increase necessary when they have so little active control?

I am quite sure that this increase is necessary in the light of the events of last winter. It must be remembered that the prevailing feeling in this House has been that we must support the co-ordination of local authorities in the exercise of their duties.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that most of us in London are very well pleased with and grateful for the splendid work that the London Regional Headquarters have done?

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend, and I think her tribute is well deserved.

asked the Home Secretary what is the total cost of London Regional Headquarters for Civil Defence; what is the sum paid in salaries; and how many of such salaries are £800 per annum and over?

The approximate annual cost of the London Regional Headquarters for Civil Defence is £289,000, of which £202,000 is in respect of salaries. This figure for salaries includes not only the administrative and clerical staff but also technical and regional officers attached to headquarters with operational responsibilities. There are 25 officers with salaries of £800 or over.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I did not intend in my Question to suggest any criticism of the splendid work done by the London Regional Headquarters, which is much appreciated, but is it necessary to have all these very highly-paid officers in addition to the staff which has done such good work in the past?

I am very much obliged to my hon. Friend for his explanation, but the fact is that there is a great deal of high grade operational work to be done at the London Regional Headquarters.

Are there any women among the 25 officers?

I cannot say without notice.

asked the Prime Minister the present position with regard to the formation of an Imperial War Cabinet and Dominion representation in the present War Cabinet?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave on Tuesday last to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Eye (Mr. Granville).

Is not this a matter which might be well discussed with the new Australian Minister who is coming to this country shortly?

Yes, Sir. I think our conversations will range widely over the whole field.

asked the Prime Minister whether any steps have recently been taken to improve the co-ordination of the several organisations responsible for political warfare; and, if so, what is the nature of the reorganisation?

Yes, Sir, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Information and the Minister of Economic Warfare have been in consultation on the subject of propaganda to enemy and enemy-occupied territories. They have recommended, and I have approved their recommendation, that a small special executive for the conduct of Political Warfare should be established, in lieu of the various agencies concerned at present, which have done very excellent work, to conduct such propaganda in all its forms. This executive has already begun its work, but it would be contrary to the national interest to make any public statement regarding its personnel or the nature of its activities.

I am obliged for the information the Prime Minister has given. Could he say to which Minister Questions should be put on the subject?

There can be no Questions on secret matters. On all other matters, to the Minister of Information.

To which Ministers will this body be responsible in a general sense?

The executive will be responsible to the three Ministers sitting together; but if those Ministers, who have different functions and who approach matters from different angles, do not agree the matter would come to me as Minister of Defence, and afterwards to the Cabinet.

Will this Committee be empowered to establish the special organisation and acquire the material so much needed for the expansion of our broadcasting system?

I am sure it will be able to make recommendations on these matters. It must not be assumed that nothing has been done.

Where are non-secret questions sifted from secret Questions? Who is to decide whether a Question is secret or not?

A certain practice has grown up. In certain cases the Government are asked about matters which cannot be put on the Paper until the Question has been considered. In such cases the regular practice of sifting Questions will be followed.

Where is the decision made? What is the system? Suppose a Member desiring to put a Question feels that the Question has no secret aspect, will the Clerks at the Table be empowered to reject the Question?

The Clerks at the Table exercise the direct authority under Mr. Speaker. Therefore, I should be presuming if I were to attempt to speak upon that, but when I or other Ministers have heard of a Question which has been put down quite inadvertently by a Member who did not know what points would be touched upon, we have made representations, and those representations have been considered, under the general authority of the Chair. I trust I am not presuming.

The use of the term "executive" raises this question in my mind. Is this body, which is to speak in the name of Great Britain, to carry on our political warfare, to be completely anonymous and unknown to the Members of the House of Commons?

The persons who do the work are anonymous, but the persons under whom they act are Ministers of the Crown, responsible to Parliament.

Will this new executive be able to deal with the housing and staffing of the foreign broadcasting service, the inadequacy of which has long been a scandal?

I think the answer is that the small anonymous executive will probably concentrate some of their earliest attention on this point.

What is the difference between a secret Question and an awkward Question?

One is a danger to the country, and the other is a nuisance to the Government.

asked the Prime Minister whether the remarks in the recent speech of the Minister of Aircraft Production regarding operations between the Russian and German armies on the Eastern Front represent the policy of His Majesty's Government?

The versions which have been given to the public of the remarks made at a private gathering at the end of July by the Minister of Aircraft Production bear a construction which represents neither the policy of His Majesty's Government nor the views of my right hon. and gallant Friend. I happen to know what the views of my right hon. and gallant Friend were, because on the day when Hitler attacked Russia I told him on the telephone the line I was going to take that night of wholehearted support for Russia, and he expressed enthusiastic assent. He emphasised these sentiments in a public speech at Chertsey on 9th August. Moreover, my right hon. and gallant Friend has all the while been ardently at work, as I know from daily observation, sending hundreds of fighter aircraft- to Russia, many of which have already got there. Therefore, although the phrasing of what he said at the private gathering taken from its context might well be misconstrued, I am satisfied that he was and is in the fullest accord with the policy which His Majesty's Government are earnestly pursuing.

Has my right hon. Friend seen and read the correspondence which passed between the Minister of Aircraft Production, Sir Ernest Salmon and Mr. Blackburn, organiser of the Amalgamated Engineering Union, and, if not, may I send him copies of the correspondence? After having perused the correspondence, will he agree that the Minister of Aircraft Production, for his own sake and for the advantage of the Government, should make a personal statement at that Box?

I have, of course, read the correspondence, and I was astonished that anybody should have taken the mischievous action of making all this sensation, which does nothing but harm to Russia as well as to Britain and leads to suspicions between those whose fortunes are linked together. As to a statement by my right hon. and gallant Friend, he is, of course, welcome to make a personal statement if he desires, but I have assumed the duty of dealing with this matter.

If my right hon. Friend intends to rebuke those who have raised this matter—as apparently he does—without any hostile intent but merely for the purpose of seeking a reasonable explanation of the statement, will he take exception to a public statement being made quoting the actual statements made by the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Minister for Aircraft Production and his admission that the statements were made?

I think it would be unhelpful to the general interest. That is my view. I have very carefully considered what I should say, because I could easily use arguments which would be quite effective from the point of view of merits for and against but which would tend to give an altogether disproportionate importance and significance to this matter. Therefore, I have forborne from quoting. I would also say that it is very inconvenient, and I think contrary to our way of carrying on our business, to found accusations in public upon reports of what passed at a private gathering at which no written record was taken—

What about the admission?

My right hon. and gallant Friend certainly said that he was sorry his words had borne that construction. So he is, but that was not what he meant, and I am satisfied that at the root of the matter he is with us heart and soul.

Is the Prime Minister aware of the deep and bitter feeling that exists among many trade unionists in factories—in almost every factory in the country—as the result of this, and will he not be prepared to assure the workers that he will take every step to clear out of his Government anyone who is not 100 per cent. in co-operation with the Soviet Union?

I do not think I should be prepared to seek guidance in matters of policy or conduct from an hon. Gentleman whose attitude has been notorious for his changed opinions whenever he has been ordered to do so by a body outside this House.

On a point of Order. I want to put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that as the representative for West Fife I have never taken orders from anyone outside this country at any time. I ask protection from you, Sir, and demand the withdrawal of that insulting remark made by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister has no right to make such a false statement. It is a dirty, cowardly, rotten action on the part of the Prime Minister, the action of a blackguard. It is a dirty lie, a foul, dirty lie.

Mr. Speaker, aftér very deep reflection about what occurred in the House earlier, I want to apologise to you and to the House for the offensive words I used after I had put to you my point of Order, and to make a complete withdrawal of the offensive remarks directed towards the Prime Minister.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will now make a statement showing what has been done to reduce the average rate of interest charged to agricultural borrowers to a lesser rate of interest than 5 per cent.?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave to the hon. and gallant Member for Carnarvon (Major Owen) on 19th December, 1940.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these problems will not outwear themselves and that some steps must be taken to find a solution? Is it not the case that up to the present the Government have been unwilling to make any concession in order to find a solution?

There is evidence that our agricultural price policy has enabled the farming community to reduce its dependance on borrowed money.

But the interest is still too high.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in order to increase the confidence of farmers throughout the country, he will take steps, before the end of 1941, to announce the broad outlines of a long-term policy for agriculture, extending for a period of five years after the cessation of hostilities, especially having regard to the stimulus that such an announcement would give to war-time effort and enterprise, bearing in mind the necessity of a reasonable guarantee as a solution to the many problems?

In the reply I gave to my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham and Worthing (Earl Winterton) on 26th November, 1940, I stated that the Government recognised the importance of maintaining after the war a healthy and well-balanced agriculture as an essential and permanent feature of national policy, and that the present system of fixed prices and an assured market would be maintained for at least one year after the end of hostilities so as to ensure stability for a length of time sufficient to put into action a permanent post-war policy for home agriculture. The broad lines of such a policy are under consideration, but I can hold out no hope that a further statement will be possible before the end of this year.

Will my right hon. Friend tackle the root causes of the problems that led to the slump in agriculture prior to the outbreak of the war? Is he not aware that problems not tackled at their roots beget other problems and that our course then becomes encumbered with futile efforts to deal with these other problems?

asked the Minister of Agriculture what remedial steps have been taken by county war agricultural executive committees in view of the further destruction of poultry and lambs by foxes, of which details have been sent to him; and whether he will make it clear to these committees that they must exercise their powers to kill when the local hunts do not remove the pest?

A number of committees have, in order to deal more effectively with the pest, been given compulsory powers under the Defence Regulations. I am prepared to consider the extension of these powers to any other war agricultural committee in whose area foxes cannot be successfully controlled through the local hunts or otherwise.

Has the Minister considered the facts given to him with regard to work in one particular area? Have definite instructions been given to that committee to take action?

I am not aware of the particular case which my hon. Friend has in mind, but if he will let me know about it, I will look into it.

I have already let the Minister know.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the delayed harvest in many parts of the country, he will arrange with the Board of Education for the continuance of harvest camps until the crops are garnered?

My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Education has, at my request, sent a memorandum to school authorities asking them to help by keeping these camps in being for a further week or two wherever possible and desirable.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the number of steeplechase mares and geldings for which he has granted rations for the coming season; the amount of the daily ration of all fodder authorised; and the total weight that will be consumed in a six-months period?

No rations have yet been granted for any mares or geldings for the coming steeplechase season.

When the time comes for the Minister to grant these rations, will he work out how many hens and cows can be kept on the rations which will probably be supplied to these useless animals?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has received the names of persons recommended for membership of the Catchment Board for the North Lonsdale Rivers; whether he has approved of these names; and whether he will overcome, or circumvent, all statutory or formal delays and set this board up at once, so that work may be started without delay before the heavy rains and the frosts, with a view to preparing much derelict land for cultivation for next season?

The appointment of members of the North Lonsdale Rivers Catchment Board has now been completed, and the first meeting of the board will be held on the 25th of this month.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will instruct war agricultural executive committees that they should, when giving notice to a farmer that they propose to recommend that he be dispossessed of his land, communicate in writing to the fanner particulars of any bad husbandry or other matters alleged in support of the recommendation?

In many instances a proposal to dispossess an occupier is preceded by the giving of explicit directions by the executive committee requiring the occupier to remedy the deficiencies in the cultivation of the land. Whether this be the case or not, the current instructions to executive committees are that before an application is made for my consent to dispossess an occupier, the farm should be inspected by representatives of the committee after due notice to the occupier and, if the committee come to an adverse decision, the occupier is given the opportunity of laying his case personally before the committee if he wishes to do so. I am satisfied that these arrangements are sufficient to ensure that no occupier is dispossessed without being fully informed of the reasons for the committee's action.

Before taking the serious step of depriving a farmer of his livelihood, should not full particulars of the matters complained of be put into writing and presented to him, before any question of dispossession arises?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the action of the war agricultural committees has given general satisfaction?

May I ask whether in those cases in which the farmer submits that his neglectful husbandry is due to lack of finance—as it is in numerous cases —he is given some facilities for financing the operations demanded by the committee before being dispossessed?

Perhaps my hon. Friend will wait until I give the answer to the next Question on the Paper.

May I have an answer to my Supplementary Question?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has authorized war agricultural executive committees in considering whether a farmer should be dispossessed of his land, to take into account the amount of capital at the farmer's disposal; and whether he will take steps to ensure that such cases shall be determined by reference to the farmer's experience, skill and energy, and not by reference to his financial position, a loan in suitable cases being made from public funds?

War agricultural executive committees have been instructed to take into account, in considering how best to deal with cases of unsatisfactory farming, the possibility of helping those farmers who have experience, skill and energy but are short of capital, by providing goods and services on credit terms under the Agricultural Requisites Assistance Scheme.

Will my right hon. Friend say whether particulars will be given in writing to the dispossessed farmer of the reasons for which he is dispossessed?

I have already replied to that question.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of all that has gone on, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware of the prevalent anxiety with regard to the absence of any right of appeal to an independent tribunal against recommendations by war agricultural executive committees that farmers should be dispossessed of their land; and whether he will consider establishing such right of appeal, subject only to the deposit by an appellant of a sum proportionate to the acreage involved, which sum to be liable to forfeiture in the event of the appeal tribunal declaring the appeal to be frivolous or intended solely to cause delay?

I cannot usefully add to the replies which were given to similar Questions put to me by the right hon. and gallant Member for Rye (Sir G. Court-hope) on 27th March, and the hon. Member for Isle of Ely (Mr. de Rothschild) on 27th February.