asked the Minister of Labour (1) the number of Works Councils that are representative of all interests that have been set up since September, 1939;

(2) the number of Works Councils which are representative of all interests that have been set up in the aircraft factories since 1939;

(3) the number of Works Councils in industry and the number in Royal Ordnance Factories; and is he satisfied with the functioning of the councils and the number?

There are no statistics available as to the number of Works Councils which have been set up since September, 1939. I am aware, however, that there has been a welcome increase of interest in this matter both among employers and employees. So far as Royal Ordnance Factories are concerned, it is the general policy of the Ministry of Supply to establish these councils. I am satisfied that in general the councils are performing a valuable service and I look forward to their establishment on a much wider scale.

Will my right hon. Friend see to it that this is made known to the workers?

Certainly, I will do that.

In view of the determination of the men employed in the factories to obtain the maximum production and to have a say in bringing that about, does not my right hon. Friend think that more concrete steps should be taken by the Ministers responsible in order to set up the largest number of councils?

I have encouraged that, but I am in the difficulty that one of the largest unions concerned is opposed to this form of council, and that makes my task rather difficult.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that men at a Caerphilly railway shop, employing some 500 men, engaged on heavy engine repairs and working considerable overtime, have been negotiating for a canteen since the early part of the year, and that so far nothing has been done to provide the facilities asked for; and whether he will take steps to expedite the matter?

I understand the proposal here is to convert existing feeding facilities into a canteen at which meals are sold and that, while there has been some unfortunate delay, arrangements for the immediate supply of light refreshments were being made last week and a full canteen service should be in operation very shortly.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has now concluded his inquiries into the case of John Irwin, a coal-bagger, employed by the Westhoughton Industrial Co-operative Society, directed to return to work in a coal mine; and, if so, with what results?

Mr. Irwin has appealed against the direction to return to coalmining employment at the Wigan Junction Colliery, and his case is to be considered by the Appeal Board on 10th October. As soon as a decision has been reached, I will communicate with my hon. Friend.

In view of my right hon. Friend's statement in the Debate on manpower yesterday about the distributive trades, may I take it that he will look into the desperate situation of shopkeepers and distributors of coal, bread and milk, and allow them to retain some of their staffs?

I am doing that. I have been in consultation with the distributive trades, but I should like the help of the House to assist me when I have to call up from other trades.

In giving instructions to men who are ex-miners to return to the mines, will my right hon. Friend not discriminate too much as to where the men come from?

We have not discriminated. In view of the urgency of the coal situation, the main task has been to get the men back to the mines.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the serious shortage of women for domestic service in Colwyn Bay; that many young women are leaving domestic service to serve in offices in the town; whether they are then in a reserved occupation; and what steps he is taking, in view of the increasing difficulties of many households with aged and invalid alone, to look after the persons billeted on them?

The shortage of domestic servants is not confined to Colwyn Bay, and, in view of the great and increasing demands on woman labour, must be accepted as unavoidable. The question whether a woman who has changed her job to an office in the town, would be called for selection interview under the Registration for Employment Order, to which I assume my hon. Friend refers in the third part of his Question, would depend on the nature of the occupation and whether it had been entered into after registration.

Will the Minister see that the Ministry of Food, at all events, do not compete to get domestic servants away from the very houses in which they are supposed to look after civil servants? Will he bear in mind that civilian life has to go on in this town as well as in other towns and that aged and infirm people cannot look after civil servants?

I can assure the hon. Member that we are taking very great care over the question of domestic servants. On the other hand, the experiment of doing a little domestic work by the families themselves might have a good effect.

Is the Minister aware that there is a very grave shortage of women with domestic experience in the A.T.S. and that perhaps the A.T.S. has the greatest claim on domestic workers who can be released from their present employment?

There is a shortage of this type of experienced person in all the Services, but I do not want it to be assumed that the main shortage in the A.T.S. is in this category. I have tried to the best of my ability to use lower grade categories for kitchen and domestic work in the Army, and in many cases I would prefer a grade 3 person to be an orderly in a kitchen in the Army rather than to have a grade A.1 woman put there when she could be better employed in a factory.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to the delays, owing to lack of labour, in the completion of the sewerage and sewerage disposal scheme at Redditch, the completion of which is urgently pressed upon the urban district council by the Ministry of Supply and the public health and other authorities of the county, and which is urgently required in view of the additional houses and new hostels being erected for workers in the town; and what action he is taking to provide the necessary labour?

Yes, Sir. Active steps are being taken to meet the situation.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give further instructions to all those concerned which will prevent young girl clerks, or others, demanding the ages of women in the presence of others when they re-register after moving into a new district?

I have no doubt that the exchange staff are already well aware of the delicacy of this question, but if my hon. Friend has reason to think that avoidable publicity was given to it in any particular case I shall be glad to make inquiry.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I can give him information about a particular case, and does he not consider that it would be wise to temper the essential tyranny oi the times by tact and delicacy?

asked the Minister of Labour why a Local Appeal Board, to whom a case of alleged absenteeism is referred by a National Service officer, is required to furnish to the parties concerned copies of its recommendation, whereas in other cases recommendations are communicated exclusively to the National Service officer?

The procedure with regard to notifying the recommendations of a local appeal board to the workman and to his employer is prescribed by the Essential Work Order in cases where the board has been dealing with complaints made by the employer with regard to absenteeism or similar matters. No similar procedure is prescribed in cases where an appeal is lodged against a direction given by a National Service officer, and for reasons which I have already given I do not think it would be appropriate in such cases.

Will the Minister give me the reason why the two cases should be treated differently? Why should not the recommendation be communicated to the parties concerned in all cases?

As I explained recently, in one case the direction is given in regard to absenteeism, and we are dealing directly with the man and the prescribed employer, and in the other case it is a recommendation that may or may not have to be dealt with by the Minister himself. The two things are quite different.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that certain chain stores who, at periods when workers were easily obtainable, employed young women and girls for half the week or less, and compelled them to draw unemployment benefit for the remainder of the week despite the large profits made and dividends distributed, are now attracting young persons under the age of reservation from trades of national value by the offer of high wages; and what steps he is taking to prevent such transfer of workers?

I was not aware of this, and I should be grateful if my hon. and gallant Friend would send me details.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in cases where young women leave their employment for service in the Women's Royal Naval Service, the Auxiliary Territorial Service or the Women's Auxiliary Air Force, or under his direction for work of national importance, he proposes to direct the employer to re-employ such workers at the conclusion of such service?

I have no power to issue such directions.

Will the Minister bear in mind that if such an assurance concerning reinstatement were available, it might have a very considerable effect in accelerating the recruitment of young women for the Services?

Yes, Sir, I have given a great deal of study to this, but it is almost impossible to embody really effective administrative provisions in an Act of Parliament. The Government are giving consideration to the questions that will arise on the demobilisation of the Forces and of the people who have been transferred, and up to the moment the only satisfactory solution which is deemed to be likely to be successful is that where these disturbances have taken place, there should be certain general social obligations.

Is the Minister aware that it will be the desire of good employers to reinstate these people, and will he consider whether there is some means of compulsion that could be applied to employers who do not come within that category?

Certainly, we shall study this matter in all its aspects. The concentration of industry and many other things sometimes make it difficult to know whether the employer is in fact there. One cannot find a substitute for the acceptance of a general social obligation.

Is there any greater difficulty in giving this direction in regard to young women than in giving it to young men, who are to be reinstated?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the principle was embodied in the Military Service Act which was passed by the House some three and a half years ago, and in which provision was made for compensation if reinstatement was not made?

I am aware of what was done in that Act, and I have studied the matter on that basis. The worst thing the House could do would be to find some loose legislation which, when it came to be carried out, would not prove to be effective. I am bound to say that the way in which my mind is moving is that there should be a general social obligation of some kind.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to an article appearing in the "Sunday Pictorial" of 28th September regarding the procedure for dealing with inventions; and whether, in view of the deleterious effect of such an article on our war effort by discouraging new inventions, he will take action to prevent a repetition of such a statement by this paper?

I have seen the article to which my hon. Friend refers, but I have not been able to find in it anything which requires any action on my part.

May I ask whether this newspaper has been warned on previous occasions, and, if not, will the right hon. Gentleman behave like a worm in the turning stage and "Go to it"?

The House will, I am sure, take the view that we really must not proceed to interfere with newspapers merely because they publish something with which we do not agree.

Will the right hon. Gentleman read the article, when he will see that it distinctly says that inventions are not considered on their merits but from the point of view of whether they would utilise iron or wood, and that if they would they are turned down?

asked the Minister of Labour how many men and women have been rejected for the Services on account of defective hearing; what arrangements are made to secure employment for men discharged from the Services on account of deafness; and whether he will obtain the co-operation of the National Institute for the Deaf in this task?

As regards the first part of the Question, I regret that this information is not available. In regard to the second part, every effort is made through the Employment Exchange service to secure employment for men discharged from the Services on account of deafness, and I am in touch with the National Institute for the Deaf in this connection.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that many voluntary hospitals are seriously hampered, and some may even have to close down wholly or partly, owing to lack of ancillary staff such as stokers, porters and wardmaids; and as the work of these hospitals is work of national importance he will assist them by announcing this and by devising, in cooperation with the Ministry of Labour, some method of aiding the hospitals to obtain the necessary staff?

I have for some time been concerned with the difficulties to which the hon. Lady refers, and I have recently discussed them with representatives of voluntary hospitals. Domestic work in hospitals is recognised as one of the services of most urgent national importance for which recruitment is to be carried out by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour, and I have issued a poster for circulation to hospitals to make this importance clear to those already employed in hospitals.

Is there any means of directing the men and women who can be called up under the regulations to the hospitals?

I would not put it in that form. As the hon. Member knows, there are a great many considerations, but my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and I are both aware of the urgency of this problem, not only in hospitals but elsewhere.

Will my right hon. Friend ask the Minister of Labour whether those who have been rejected from national service on the ground of deafness can be utilised for this work where they could be very useful?

I will consider that.

In any negotiations with the voluntary hospitals, will my right hon. Friend insist on proper wage standards and conditions prevailing in these hospitals?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the increasing difficulty of obtaining domestic service for residential nursery schools and other establishments in rural areas, owing to the call-up of women for national service; and whether he will take steps to secure adequate personnel for this essential national need?

Women, including domestic staff, employed in child welfare institutions are performing a very important national service and one which should offer special attraction to older women. I am assured by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour that there is no present intention of calling them up for selection interview within the age groups covered by the Registration for Employment Order.

Will that allow for an increase in the establishment, which is now considerably depleted? We want extra persons.

I understand that. It is a difficult problem.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that the National Milk Publicity Council, who inaugurated the Milk in Schools Scheme, find it impossible, under war conditions, to adhere to the original plan of supplying all milk in one-third pint bottles; and whether he will relax the rules by allowing milk to be supplied in bulk and its distribution organised by the teachers, so that the children may not be deprived of their milk?

The difficulty to which my hon. Friend refers has been dealt with in Circulars 1548 and 1565, of which I am sending him copies. The first of these circulars authorised expenditure by local education authorities on arrangements for handling bulk supplies of milk at schools in cases where a supply in one-third pint bottles could not be maintained. I appreciate the difficulty of supplying all milk in small bottles, but the problems of dealing with bulk supply in the schools are also formidable.

Can my right hon. Friend get over these difficulties?

If my hon. Friend refers to the circulars, especially the first, he will see that we are doing our best, and I especially want to do my best.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he will provide a list of local education authorities in the North of England which have adequate nursery school accommodation; and whether he will state his accepted definition of adequate accommodation in this respect?

The provision of nursery schools is not a statutory duty of local education authorities. The adequacy of the provision in any given area is dependent on local conditions including alternative arrangements for the education of children under five. I should not be disposed to say that any authority in the north of England or elsewhere had so far provided sufficient nursery schools to meet the needs of their areas and I look for suitable developments in this service when circumstances permit.

Will the Minister be good enough to answer the first part of my Question and supply a list of the local education authorities which have provided this accommodation?

If the hon. Member will read my answer carefully, he will see there is some difficulty, but I will try to do my best for him.

Will the Minister also state what is the Ministerial definition of "adequate accommodation," in view of the fact that education authorities throughout the country have totally different estimates of what is adequate?

I would point out that there is some difficulty in defining the word "adequate."

asked the President of the Board of Education whether the question of the school and higher certificate examinations will be included in the consideration of post war reconstruction in education which is now proceeding in his Department?

Yes, Sir. I have approved the appointment of a small committee composed of members of the Secondary School Examinations Council to advise me on suggested changes in the secondary school curriculum and the related question of school examinations. The committee, which will be under the chairmanship of Sir Cyril Norwood, will include representatives of the local education authorities, the teaching profession and the university examining bodies. The names of the committee will be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this reform has long been desired and that his announcement to-day will be very welcome, particularly in view of the name of the chairman?

Yes, Sir, I attach great importance to the work that this committee is going to undertake.

asked the Minister of Health approximately how many, or what percentage of, old age pensioners do not draw a supplementary pension; whether he has any information respecting the number who have applied for a supplementary pension owing to the increase in the cost of living; whether supplementary pensions are invariably increased in relation to the increased cost of living; and whether, in view of the present decreased value of the basic pension, he is considering the need of taking action respecting this hardship?

Nearly two-thirds of the total number of old age pensioners, including widow pensioners aged 60 years or over, are not receiving a supplementary pension. It is not' possible to say how many pensioners have applied for a supplementary pension because of an increase in the cost of living. All supplementary pensions are assessed in accordance with the scales laid down in the Regulations which include an element in respect of the increased cost of living. As regards the last part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Central Southward (Mr. Martin) on 7th August.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many elderly people are finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet on the pensions and supplementary allowances which they receive? Is he further aware that many associations of old age pensioners have passed resolutions demanding more substantial increases?

Yes, Sir, I have noticed these, and also the proceedings which took place at a recent conference.

Will my right hon. Friend be likely to make some statement in the near future?

I cannot add anything to what I have already said.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the widespread desire for the removal of the household means test in the matter of supplementary old age pensions; and whether he can indicate any prospect of an increase in the pensions paid?

As a result of the review of cases under the Determination of Needs Act, a large number of pensioners have received increases in their Supplementary Pensions. I hope to be able very soon to make a statement regarding the results of the review.

Is it not the case that the means test is still operating as viciously as ever, and will the Minister have special reference to that in his review?

I could not accept that. As the House knows, I have tried to give as much information as I can on this very vital subject.

Is it not a fact that the spirit which prevailed in our discussion in this House on the means test is not being carried out by the Minister's officers, and that the means test is being more stringently applied to old age pensioners than was the intention of this House?

I cannot accept that.

It does not matter whether the Minister accepts it or not; it is a fact.

Perhaps the hon. Member will give me evidence.

I will.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that 1914–18 war-disabled pensioners are almost the only class of persons who have received no assistance to help them meet the increased cost of living since the outbreak of the present war; and will he disregard the out-of-date 1919 cost-of-living figures on which their pensions are based, and take steps to increase the 1919 Royal Warrant scales, and bring into line with such amended scales the pensions paid to victims of the present war?

Great War pensioners did in effect receive this assistance in advance since the rates of pension laid down in the Royal Warrant of 6th December, 1919, for disablement due to service in the Great War were based on a cost-of-living figure higher than that prevailing to-day; the conditions under which those pension rates may be raised are laid down in that Royal Warrant. The hon. Member may be assured that, as I have frequently informed the House, the relation between pension rates and cost-of-living figures is kept constantly in mind.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that the amount of pension is adequate to enable them to live under reasonable conditions?

The subject was debated very fully, and I have nothing to add to the statement I made on that occasion.

Will my hon. Friend answer my question whether he is satisfied or not?

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that the hon. Member for Frome has received a protest from 433 men and women of Boston, Lincolnshire, against the unequal rate as between men and women under the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme; and whether, in view of the growing indignation all over the country at the injustice to women under this scheme, he proposes to revise the rates?

While I am always prepared to consider representations relating to the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, I am not aware that any fresh arguments against the difference in the rates for men and women under this scheme have been produced in addition to those which I answered in the course of the Debate on 1st May last.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that no fresh arguments are needed and that the original arguments are sufficiently forcible? In view of the fact that compensation for air-raid victims is paid entirely out of taxation, are the Government prepared to reduce the Income Tax level of women, or is he going to allow the male population to be subsidised by the female population?

I am afraid I cannot enter into a Debate at Question Time. I answered all that the hon. Lady brought forward in the last Debate, and I have nothing to add.

Is this a matter upon which the right hon. Gentleman intends to ascertain the views of his advisory council?

I have not an advisory council dealing with this matter.

What is the reason for this grouch that the Government have against women?

There is no grouch. We all love them.

You show it in a very funny way.

asked the Minister of Pensions (1) what rules govern the amount of hardship allowances granted to officers' wives and dependants;

(2) what, for the purposes of hardship allowances for officers' wives and dependants, the provisions of the Determination of Needs Act, 1941, are applied to the resources of the applicants?

I assume that the Questions relate to war service grants. These grants are issuable to members of the Forces who are suffering serious financial hardship as a result of their being called up for war service. In cases fulfilling that condition the grant is at the rate necessary to remove the serious hardship, subject to a maximum of £2 a week, and the principles of the Determination of Needs Act are observed in arriving at the assessment.

Do different rules apply to officers' dependants from those that apply to ordinary soldiers?

There is no difference at all. It is a truly democratic scheme.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the need for supplying Russia as well as the Near East from India, the Indian Government now proposes itself to start the manufacture of internal combustion engines in India?

My right hon. Friend can rest assured that India's capacity to assist Russia as well as the Near East will be made available to the fullest extent, but, as I have already explained, the manufacture of internal combustion engines in India is not a practical proposition so far as the present war is concerned.

How does the right hon. Gentleman know when the war will end? Is it not about time that with 400,000,000 people, you should start making something which is vital to the war?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that Sir Sikander Hyat-Khan, the Punjab Premier, has publicly expressed his concern and embarrassment at the recent Government statement respecting the relationship of the Atlantic Charter to the future government of India; whether the. Punjab Premier has communicated with him on the matter; find whether he has any statement to make respecting this?

I have seen a report of the statement referred to. I can only repeat, in order to remove any possible ground for misunderstanding, that the Prime Minister's statement of 9th September with reference to the Atlantic Charter expressly made it clear that the Government's previous declarations with regard to the goal of India's attainment to free and equal partnership in the British Commonwealth, and with regard to our desire to see that goal attained with the least possible delay after the war, under a constitution framed by agreement among Indians themselves, hold good, and are in no way qualified. The answer to the remainder of the Question is in the negative.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the fact that a gentleman of this eminence, who can by no means be classified as an extremist, must have very great doubt as to the real intentions of the Government? Does not that mean that we must reconsider our whole Indian policy to satisfy people of this kind?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that a large proportion of the householders in a town of which he has been informed upon whom evacuated civil servants have been billeted have submitted medical certificates about themselves recommending that they be taken off the billeting list; and whether such certificates are being accepted?

I am aware that a number of householders in this district have submitted medical certificates to support a claim to be relieved of the responsibility for accommodating billeted persons. In such cases the householder is informed that he has the right of appeal to the local Billeting Tribunal set up under the Defence (Billeting Tribunal) Rules, 1939; and it is for the Tribunal to decide in the light of the evidence placed before them whether exemption from the acceptance of billeted persons should be granted.

Does that mean that medical certificates are not being accepted, and is my right hon. Friend aware that it is notorious that these certificates are being given on inadequate grounds?

Since the first meeting of the Appeals Tribunal in October, 1940, out of 43 cases there have been only 20 appeals with a medical certificate. Out of the total of 20, 11 were upheld and nine disallowed. I would point out that in some cases the medical practitioner giving the certificate has appeared before the Tribunal.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is satisfied that fire-watching schemes in the Metropolitan area are proceeding with adequate speed; and, if not, what action He proposes to take?

The issue of the new Order relating to fire prevention at business premises, coupled with the introduction of the new Fire Guard organisation, has involved a thorough review of fire prevention arrangements in all urban areas. Local authorities have been asked to press on with the new arrangements with the utmost despatch, and to facilitate this end, wide discretionary powers have been granted to Regional Commissioners to approve local authorities' schemes without reference to headquarters.

In view of the magnitude of the task, is there anyone charged with reviewing at frequent intervals the progress that is being made by local authorities?

Yes, that is the duty of the Regional Commissioners and they report to us. That question will be kept in mind. Moreover, the Parliamentary Secretary is constantly supervising the progress of the work.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has any reports as to the working out of the National Fire Scheme from the point of view of the financial burdens to be shared by local authorities; and whether he has any statement to make upon the operation of this scheme?

As was announced to the House on 13th May last, the Exchequer now bears the full cost of the National Fire Service, subject to a contribution by the local authorities on the basis of 75 per cent. of the cost of the regular fire brigade service in a standard year. After discussion with representatives of the local authorities, these arrangements were embodied in the National Fire Service (Financial) Regulations of 18th. August last, and, while it is difficult at so early a stage to form any final conclusion, I have no reason to doubt that they will prove satisfactory in practice.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will inform all appropriate local authorities, in view of the fact that it has been found undesirable for members of local authorities to hold paid appointments in Civil Defence where they become subordinate to the staff of the authority, that as soon as they can be replaced these members should have their paid appointments terminated?

I would remind my hon. Friend that provision was made by the Local Government Staffs (War Service) Act, 1939, that a person shall not be disqualified for being a member of a local authority by reason only of his being employed in a civil defence service for reward. I recognise that there is an important point of principle involved, especially where appointments to administrative posts are concerned, and it is not my policy to encourage such appointments save in exceptional circumstances where the public interest so requires.

Is it not a fact that the Act to which the right hon. Gentleman refers was one of many put through in a very few minutes under extreme pressure, and has it not been a canon of local government that this situation of an elected member being employed by the stipendiary head of the local authority is most undesirable? Is he aware that several most unpleasant cases have arisen under this Act, and will he therefore consider whether some more formal action is not required by him?

Although it is the case that this was an Act passed with many others in one day, I am faced with the fact that it is on the Statute Book, and I cannot set it aside. Nevertheless, I have great sympathy with what the hon. Member says, and he has the sympathy of the House, and I will keep the matter in mind.

asked the Home Secretary whether he proposes to allow local authorities, which do not authorise an emergency committee for Civil Defence purposes, to continue the undesirable and potentially dangerous practice of operating still through full committees?

I do not know of any case in which a scheme-making authority has not appointed an emergency committee. As regards non-scheme making authorities, county councils were asked to consider with them the appointment of emergency committees in appropriate cases: and as far as I am aware this has been done. Perhaps if my hon. Friend has any particular instance in mind he will communicate with me.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has considered the views expressed by the paper "Truth," which are those of the British Union of Fascists, and contain sneers at America and Russia; and, in view of the danger to the national war effort, will he take appropriate steps to deal with this publication, either directly, or through the Paper Control Board?

If this or any other paper infringes the provisions of the Defence Regulations, it becomes my duty to consider taking appropriate action, but it is the desire of the House and of the Government that there shall be the minimum of interference with the liberty of the Press, and as my right hon. Friend will recognise, the strong objection which he or I may feel to certain articles is not in itself a ground for action under those Regulations.

While this paper may be moderate in its comments at present, what will be the action of such a Quisling paper if the Germans ever come here? Will not they have a supply of paper and machinery for acting as the organ of the new Government? Will the right hon. Gentleman take that point of view into account in regard to the publication of this wretched rag?

If the Germans did achieve that very high degree of success, I should imagine that they would take their own steps.

My right hon. Friend's answer is very satisfactory and we appreciate his desire to accord freedom to the Press, but does that not also apply to the "Daily Worker"?

I will bring the matter up on the Adjournment, with extracts from the paper.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider the advisability of allowing internees of both sexes who have been interned under Defence Regulation I8B to be released on parole on condition that they volunteer for work of national importance restricted to certain categories where there is a shortage of labour, and provided also that they shall be granted parole only after a further examination of their previous records?

All cases of persons detained under this Regulation are carefully reviewed from time to time, and in considering whether or not to authorise release one of the factors of which' I take account is whether the person concerned is genuinely willing to assist in the national war effort. I do not, however, think it is necessary to include a formal condition to this effect in an order for release. My hon. Friend will also appreciate that there are some cases where, in the interests of national security, it is not possible for me to authorise a person's release even if he asserts that he is willing to undertake work of national importance.

asked the Home Secretary whether he proposes to review or vary the regulations for the early closing of retail shops during the ensuing winter months; whether he has sought agreement with the employers' and workpeople's representatives as to the best possible solution of the problem; and, in view of the urgency, can he now make a statement?

After consultation with representatives of shopkeepers and shop assistants, it has been decided to make a Defence Regulation similar to that which operated last winter providing that from the first Sunday in November to the first Sunday in March the general closing hours for shops shall be 6 p.m. and on the late night 7.30 p.m. instead of 8 p.m. and 9 p.m. The Regulation will enable local authorities after consultation with the persons concerned to vary these hours locally, subject to certain limits. In addition, in certain special areas where for the purpose of easing the transport difficulties it is desirable that shoppers and shop assistants shall travel home before the peak traffic hour, power is taken to make special arrangements after local consultations for the earlier closing of shops, excluding food shops and very small shops. In framing these Regulations regard has been had to the experience obtained last winter and to the importance of not making it unduly difficult for industrial workers to do their necessary shopping.

Will my right hon. Friend, in sending out his circular to local authorities, stress the importance of consultation, keeping in mind that consultation does not merely mean an exchange of letters after the local city fathers have decided policy? Will my right hon. Friend keep that important point in mind?

The Regulations provide that the council should come to a decision after consultation, and I will keep in mind the point my hon. Friend raises.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is now in a position to state what inquiries are made into the character and antecedents of men employed in demolition work?

As stated in reply to my hon. Friend's Question on both September, it was not considered necessary to make special inquiries before recruiting men for demolition work in London.

In view of the many cases of theft that have recently come before the courts and the strong views expressed by the Chief Magistrate on the subject, does not my right hon. Friend think that some inquiry should be made by the Employment Exchange before these men are taken on?

In view of the importance of getting this work done, I am afraid that it would be most unwise and injudicious to try and make inquiries into the character of the large number of labouring men who are involved. On the other hand, it is not wise to exaggerate the degree of these thefts.

Is my right hon. Friend conscious of the fact that this work has been done magnificently and with great speed in the last few months, and should not the men, who, as a whole, are a decent lot of workers, get the credit for it?

asked the Home Secretary whether he has considered the strictures recently passed upon the personnel of the demolition service, of which copies have been forwarded to him; and whether, in the interests of the members of this service, he will have inquiry made as to the justification for the allegations?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by the Parliamentary Secretary to a Question by the hon. and gallant Member for Ayr Burghs (Sir T. Moore) on 10th September.

At a time when careless talk is so much deprecated, cannot something be done to prevent magistrates making such remarks as that they are beginning to wonder whether there is an honest demolition worker?

On certain occasions magistrates let their eloquence get the better of their discretion.

So do Ministers.

asked the Home Secretary what steps he proposes to take to minimise the effects of the black-out during the winter months in regard to the war effort as well as the comfort and safety of the public?

asked the Home Secretary whether he can now, in the interest of life and limb, suggest a modified pre-war system of street-lighting in the large towns and cities, as the present black-out has proved useless against bomb attacks?

The Lighting Restrictions Regulations are under constant consideration by His Majesty's Government. We are keeping an alert mind on the subject and are always ready to adapt our policy to meet the situation as it exists from time to time. In all these matters we are largely guided by the expert advice of the Air Staff. The proposal that the streets should be lighted above the standard now permitted ignores the danger that by so doing we should give to the enemy a ready-made map of the area he may wish to bomb. The Air Staff would be glad indeed if the Germans would light their towns and I am advised that the suggestion in the last part of Question No. 41 is not borne out by the facts.

It has been suggested that arrangements might be made to extinguish lights on receipt of a warning, but, apart from the fact that this would involve a considerable amount of electrical work which could not rapidly be carried out under the existing conditions of labour and supply, this scheme would be likely to lead to an increase of road accidents with vehicles which must continue to run after the lights had been suddenly extinguished. Furthermore it assumes that a warning can always be given, but as my predecessor and I have frequently pointed out in the House, the air raid warning system is not automatic but depends on many human and other uncertain factors. And we must not be lulled into any false sense of security by our recent, and in all probability temporary, freedom from raiding on a large scale.

I am making inquiry in regard to the arrangements in Moscow which have been described in the Press, but I am not sure that experience in that city is relevant to conditions in this country. With a view to facilitating the war effort certain relaxations of the lighting restrictions, including "star" street lighting and the additional motor headlamp, have already been authorised, but it would not be in the national interest that details of all such relaxations should be given either by me or by other hon. Members. I am disposed to think that as things are the increased lighting of streets which has been suggested would cause alarm and disquiet among the general public who, I believe, would prefer the admitted inconveniences of the blackout to which they are accustomed to the risks which they apprehend from street lighting.

While fully recognising all the facts which my right hon. Friend has given, may I ask whether our scientists and engineers are constantly seeking some method by which some relaxation can be made which will give our people a little more comfort and light and our war output a better chance of success?

That aspect has not been overlooked. A fair amount of research and, indeed, preparation on this matter have been undertaken, but for reasons which I have indicated I thought it unwise to make a general relaxation.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for his statement, may I ask whether it is not a fact that not a single raid has been prevented by the black-out and not one life saved, and that the trade of the country has been seriously interfered with by the black-out?

These statements, which I have seen elsewhere, are very gratuitous assertions. There is a great deal of difference between the enemy not knowing precisely what he is bombing and knowing precisely what he is bombing. Frankly, the case has not yet been proved to my satisfaction that production has been gravely interfered with as a result of the blackout.

Is the objection to turning up the lights really a Home Office objection and not an objection on the part of the Air Ministry?

On this matter we act largely on the advice of the Air Staff, who are the important people concerned. The decision I have referred to is not merely a departmental decision, but the decision of His Majesty's Government.

asked the Home Secretary, in view of his decision that the Communist Party of Great Britain is not loyal to this country, what steps he intends to take to dissolve that organisation and /or to prosecute its members?

In a free country where the laws are so framed as to allow the utmost liberty for expressions of opinion and to prevent any undue interference with political propaganda it is a mistake to infer that if the law is not set in motion there is no disloyalty. The fact that no action has been taken against this Party is not a testimony to their loyalty: it is a testimony to the liberality of our laws and the desire of the Government to made the minimum use—even in time of war—of repressive measures. So long as security considerations permit I am anxious to avoid taking such steps for the suppression of the Communist Party or the prosecution of its members as my hon. Friend appears to suggest.

Does my right hon. Friend think it fair or consistent with his duty that he should make charges in this House and the persons accused have no adequate opportunity of answering them?

The persons concerned have an honourable and eloquent Member in this House to express their opinions, which he frequently does.

Does my right hon. Friend not appreciate that he also distinguishes in his own actions—

rose—

May I not put my question in another way?

The hon. Member has had his answer.

In that case, in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter again.

asked the Home Secretary whether, in sanctioning schemes and plans for air-raid shelters, he follows the policy of preferring such shelters as will have post-war uses as clubs, gymnasia, wash-houses and so forth, thus greatly minimising, over a long period, the cost of shelters?

I am always ready to consider proposals on the lines suggested: but experience has shown that there is little scope for such schemes in view of the limitations of time, labour and materials within which the urgent work of providing shelter must be carried out.

Is the Minister aware that certain local authorities are pressing this point of view?

I am willing to consider on their merits any proposals that local authorities may put up.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has considered the resolution of the Pathhead and Sinclair-town Co-operative Society, a copy of which has been sent to him, asking that the ban prohibiting the publication of the "Daily Worker" be lifted in view of the declared support of that paper to the policy of British-Soviet unity in international affairs; and what answer he has made?

This resolution and others were duly considered, and have been answered by the statements which I have made in Parliament.

Is the Minister aware that resolutions of a similar nature have been sent to him by very large and important industrial organisations; and is it not time that a decision was arrived at more consistent with the dignity and well-being of the nation?

All representations are considered and given their proper weight, but I must make it clear that, in the end, I am responsible to the House of Commons.

Is not that the best reason for raising the matter once more in the House of Commons?

Is it assumed that a paper, disloyal once, is to be considered disloyal for ever?

I have never made any such declaration. I do not know why my hon. Friend should make such an accusation.

Is this not a perpetual ban by the right hon. Gentleman?

I have not said so.

asked the Home Secretary whether the 20 internees under Regulation I8B, who have been removed to prison from Peel Camp, have been, or are being, charged with an offence; and, if not, in what manner have these detainees been selected?

No, Sir. As I explained in the statement I made on 2nd October, these men have been selected for removal to prison on the ground that they are persons likely to cause trouble in the camp.

Have the6e men now been removed from preventive detention to punitive detention?

They are still in preventive detention.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is satisfied that the purpose for which the pensionable age of a blind person was reduced from 50 to 40 has been realised or whether his attention has been called to the extent by which local authorities have caused the financial benefits of the amended Act to be reduced or cancelled; and what steps he proposes to take to give to eligible blind persons the benefit intended for them?

Yes, Sir; it was always contemplated that a local authority in granting financial assistance to a blind person under the Blind Persons Acts would take into account the amount of any old age pension received by him; and one of the objects of reducing the pensionable age for blind persons was to secure that the burden of providing assistance to blind persons should be shared between the Exchequer and the local authorities. I see no need, therefore, for any special action in the matter.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it unfortunate that local authorities should have taken advantage of the Act, and thus used it to reduce rates instead of helping these unfortunate people?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is in a position to indicate the general lines of the Government's post-war hospital policy?

I will, with the hon. Member's permission, answer this Question at the end of Questions.

The question of post-war hospital policy and reorganisation, more particularly in relation to the Emergency Hospital Scheme, has for some time been engaging the attention of the Government. While any immediate reorganisation must be regarded as impracticable in present circumstances, certain broad principles can be laid down as the basis of Government policy. It is the objective of the Government as soon as may be after the war to ensure that by means of a comprehensive hospital service appropriate treatment shall be readily available to every person in need of it. It is accordingly proposed to lay on the major local authorities the duty of securing, in close co-operation with the voluntary agencies engaged in the same field, the provision of such a service by placing on a more regular footing the partnership between the local authorities and voluntary hospitals on which the present hospital services depend. The Government recognise that to achieve the best results and to avoid a wasteful multiplication of accommodation and equipment it will be necessary to design such a service by reference to areas substantially larger than those of individual local authorities. It will be the aim of the Government also to avoid overlapping and uneconomical expenditure by securing the provision of the more highly specialised services at teaching hospitals and other centres selected to serve these wider areas, and by arranging for a proper division of function between hospitals in these areas.

With regard to the financial aspects of the Government's proposals, it is their intention to maintain the principle that in general patients should be called on to make a reasonable payment towards the cost whether through contributory schemes or otherwise. In so far as any new burden may be thrown upon local authorities in providing or maintaining hospital accommodation, or in contributing towards the expenditure of voluntary hospitals, a financial contribution, the extent of which will be a matter for further consideration, will be made available from the Exchequer. Special arrangements for dealing with the teaching hospitals by way of increased educational grants are in contemplation. In present circumstances the arrangements for hospital services must be determined by war-time requirements, but the Government are anxious to take every step to avoid any unnecessary delay. I have already had preliminary discussions with the bodies representing the municipal hospital authorities and the voluntary hospital movement, and I am hopeful that these discussions will be continued. With their concurrence I am instituting a survey of hospitals in London and the surrounding area, to provide the information needed as a basis for future plans. As regards the remainder of the country, valuable preliminary work has already been done in some areas by bodies representing both the municipal and voluntary hospital authorities, in particular, by an organisation formed under the auspices of the Nuffield Provincial Hospitals Trust. In any surveys which it may be found necessary to institute in the provinces I shall have full regard to the information already available in this way, which I am glad to know will be at my disposal for the purpose. I am asked by the Secretary of State for Scotland to take this opportunity of stating that the aims of future policy in Scotland are generally similar, but that certain important differences in the Emergency Hospital Service and in the methods of financing voluntary hospitals in Scotland are being given special consideration.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman what kind of personnel will be engaged on this survey? Is it to be carried out simply by the officials of the Department concerned, or will officials of the local authorities be consulted, along with professional or other outside persons who are interested?

I shall do my best to see that the most competent persons are consulted in this most important survey.

Will local bodies be consulted?

Undoubtedly.

Speaking as a hospital chairman, may I ask whether, in this matter, the right hon. Gentleman will keep in close touch with the British Hospitals Association?

We have been so doing, and shall continue so to do.

Will the light hon. Gentleman also consider hospital policy in relation to the future of the medical profession as a whole, with a view to bringing forward a scheme for a general national health service in the country?

That is, of course, a wider question, and the hospital service must be considered first.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that in the scheme that he has announced proper use will be made of voluntary hospitals?

Yes. I contemplate that the general control to be exercised by my Department will secure that in the design of the scheme for the future hospital service full opportunity will be given to the voluntary hospitals to play their part.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also bear in mind the recommendations of the inter-departmental committee, of which several Members of this House were members and which inquired into the problem of the proper staffing of hospitals, which found that one of the chief problems of hospitals was that of proper staffing by well-paid and well-treated nurses?

I shall have an announcement to make on the question of nursing in the near future.

Is the right hon. Gentleman bearing well in mind the principle that, if increased public financial aid is to be given to these voluntary hospitals, it should carry with it a relative amount of control and responsibility on the part of the local authorities?

My hon. Friend will see that the arrangements provide first for consultation between all concerned, then for the survey, and afterwards for the working-out of the scheme, of course with the approval of the Ministry. These are the wise stages by which a comprehensive scheme of this kind should proceed.

Is it not a fact that the maintenance of voluntary hospitals and their subvention by public funds and flag-days is becoming increasingly repugnant to the conscience of the public, and has not the time arrived when we should have a hospitals' scheme more in accord with civilised notions of organised society?

First, public response to the appeals does not seem to bear out my hon. Friend's suggestion, neither, secondly, do the welcome and increased contributions, made in factories and workshops by workmen themselves, to their local contributory schemes.

Has the right hon. Gentleman obtained the views in this matter of the present Home Secretary, has he considered the consequences of the London hospitals' scheme, and does he realise that his present policy is repugnant to every Labour Minister on the bench—or ought to be?

If my hon. Friend will read my statement carefully, he will see that we have had consultations with all bodies concerned.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman reply to the particular point of my question dealing with the relationship between increased financial aid from public sources and proportionate representation and control?

I cannot add anything regarding the financial aspect of the scheme to what I have said in my statement. The House will appreciate that I cannot go into details in advance of the consultation, survey, preparation and settlement of the scheme.

asked the Home Secretary the number of stipendiary magistrates employed in the Metropolitan police area; the total number of cases heard by them in 1940; the number of days each sat in 1940; the number of hours per day; and the average number of cases each dealt with per working day?

There are at present 26 magistrates of the Metropolitan police courts. During the year ending 31st March, 1941, the total number of cases heard was 165,748, the average number of sittings per magistrate was approximately 170, and the average number of cases heard daily by each magistrate was about 38. Adjourned hearings are not included in these figures. The magistrates are required normally to be in attendance from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m., but during the war these hours have been varied so as to allow the courts to close at 4 p.m. if the work of the day has then been finished. During the winter months the hours of the court wen; altered to 9.30 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. with a proviso that the court might be closed at an earlier hour, not being earlier than 3.30 p.m., if the work of the court was finished. It is proposed that a similar arrangement should be made during the coming winter in order to enable the staff and others to get to their homes before night fall.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider easing the duties of the magistrates so that those who come in front of them will not get the impression that their cases are unduly hurried?

I will keep that under observation, but I do not think that the courts are unduly overworked.

asked the Home Secretary whether he can indicate as nearly as possible the number of persons convicted by Metropolitan police magistrates in 1940 on unconfirmed police evidence, and the proportion this number bears to the total convictions by these magistrates in that year?

To examine the notes of evidence in the very large number of cases where there was a plea of "not guilty" with a view to trying to discover whether there was or was not something to confirm in whole or in part the police evidence would be a most difficult and laborious task, of which the value seems to me doubtful, and I should be reluctant to direct such an investigation at a time when every effort is being made to save clerical labour.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer, but does he not agree that many of the convictions are obtained upon uncorroborated police evidence?