asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the effect on the workpeople of three blackout winters and long hours since 1938, and that the Ministry of War Transport is discouraging travelling; and will he, in conjunction with all local authorities make the best possible arrangements to enable the people to enjoy their periods of relaxation during the next few months?

Yes, Sir. I regard it as most important that workers should be enabled to make the best use of their well-earned leave in spite of the restricted nature of the facilities available. The local authorities have already been approached through the Ministry of Health and the Scottish Department of Health, and I much appreciate the help that they and the voluntary organisations concerned are giving in planning holiday-at-home attractions. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of a leaflet on this subject which has been distributed to local authorities and others.

Will my right hon. Friend convey to the Ministry's officials the appreciation of the industrial sections of the people at the adoption of an enlightened policy of this kind, and can he say what steps are being taken to see that municipalities and local authorities carry out the policy?

I have put every pressure on them that I could, and if any recalcitrant local authority does not respond and if any hon. Member will call my attention to the matter, I will take steps to find some substitute procedure at once.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the policy of the Government with regard to the holiday period to be taken this year by directors, managers, office staff and workpeople; and whether any national agreements have been entered into, or advice given, as to a maximum period?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the general announcement made earlier this year, a copy of which is printed in the OFFICIAL REPORT of 3rd March.

Does that cover all ranks in industry? Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that some guidance from the Government would be very much appreciated?

I have no power to cut down the ordinary holidays made under agreements, and I think it would be a very unwise thing to do, but we have given guidance. It is not a legal document.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the large number of firms that are being closed down in the Birmingham jewellery district due to the withdrawal of labour by his Department; and will he consider dealing a little less drastically with these small businesses, especially those employed mainly on orders for export?

In accordance with arrangements agreed with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, labour is being withdrawn from firms that have not obtained nucleus status under the Concentration Scheme. This labour is urgently needed for important war employment, and I regret I cannot agree to vary the present arrangements.

Does the Minister consider it necessary to call men of the age of 72 and women over 60 for interviews at employment exchanges, even if labour is short?

Oh, yes. The hon. Member would be surprised at the capabilities of men of 72.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the reserve of labour that exists amongst boys and' girls in public schools between the ages of 15 and 19 years; and will he consider issuing an order to compel all to work for one year on munitions, agriculture, nursing, & c., as long as the war lasts?

No, Sir. A large proportion of these boys and girls are devoting a considerable part of their time while at school to different forms of national service in the war effort. I consider that it is more advantageous to develop these arrangements to the utmost rather than to make the complete break that would be entailed by a year's absence from school.

Does the Minister consider that this section of the community is contributing as much to the war effort as other sections, and does he really consider that one year's break would not be an advantage to them, irrespective of what calling they took up after the war?

I regard this as a very vital matter. I have to keep in mind not only the period of the war, but the period after the war.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that wages of £5 and £6 a week are being paid to boys of 14, 15 and 16 years of age in Wiltshire; that the payment of such high wages is causing drunkenness and gambling amongst these boys; and what steps he is proposing to take to remedy this state of affairs?

No, Sir. I have no evidence of this and shall be glad if my hon. Friend will send me particulars.

While I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply, is he aware that the Women's Institutes in Wiltshire have expressed grave concern at the position there, and that full details can be obtained from the county educational authority?

I have requested my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Education to send me particulars of these cases. Under the new agreement, the amounts which the hon. Member has mentioned mean that these boys must be working excessive hours. I shall be very glad to get particulars.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is most unfair to make such allegations unless they can be substantiated?

asked the Minister of Labour the number, respectively, of workpeople prosecuted by his Depart- ment and imprisoned up to date for violating the several Orders and Regulations of his Department in England, Scotland and Wales, separately?

The available records indicate that the number of workpeople so prosecuted and sentenced to imprisonment is as follows:—In England 2,195 workpeople were prosecuted and 167 sentenced to imprisonment; in Wales 78 were prosecuted and seven sentenced to imprisonment; in Scotland 408 were prosecuted and 46 sentenced to imprisonment.

Will not the Minister reconsider his policy, especially in view of the fact that these people in prison do not produce anything? Does he understand that there is a good deal of resentment, especially in the coalfields, against this system?

The final sanctions were imposed by the House under the Defence of the Realm Regulations. If the law is defied, I cannot interfere with the final sanctions under the law.

Is the Minister aware that when these men appear before the courts, they are not allowed the alternative of a fine, but practically all of them are sent to gaol, and would it not be possible to put them on probation just as if they committed an offence against the ordinary common law?

I will take that up. However, the House has insisted that the question of the continuity of work is vital. I am afraid I cannot relax under that head.

Is it not the duty of the Minister towards the thousands of workpeople who are pulling their full weight to see that these slackers are punished?

Why do no employers go to gaol?

asked the Minister of Labour whether any instructions or suggestions have been given to those conducting prosecutions on behalf of the Ministry to the effect that they should generally, or in particular cases, press upon the court for the imposition of sentences of any special length or severity?

No, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases he has had reported to him for action of employers or managers of factories engaged on essential war work whose methods have led to a slowing down of the war effort; how many prosecutions have been initiated and with what results?

I am not quite certain what offences my hon. Friend has in mind; but in any event he is under a misapprehension if he thinks that it is my responsibility to decide whether proceedings should be taken either against employers and managers of factories or against the workers in those factories for alleged offences against the Defence Regulations and the Orders made thereunder. Such cases are not automatically brought to my notice, and I am not in a position to supply information about the number or results of proceedings of this kind.

As I left the particular Department open, to be written in by those responsible for writing it in at the Table, will my right hon. Friend inform me to which Department I should put a similar Question in order to obtain a definite reply?

I am not unfamiliar with the problem of settling to whom these Questions should be addressed. Often it is a case of "When in doubt give it to the Home Office." I really have not the information, and I do not know whether the Department could get it, but I think it could only come from the Supply Departments or the Ministry of Production.

As this involves not merely the reporting of slowing-down methods but also the prosecution of those responsible, I want to know who will be responsible for the prosecution of those who are reported for adopting methods of slowing down production.

If the issue of prosecution arose, I should think almost certainly the question of prosecution would be a matter for the appropriate Supply Department.

asked the Minister of Labour why Employment Exchanges are refusing suitable persons applying to be admitted to Government training centres, particularly as many prospective recruits to the Services are unemployed, or partially so, and when such training might be of value to them and the country after the war?

There may in particular cases be reasons, owing to early liability to military service or otherwise, why a course of civilian training would not be appropriate, but subject to such considerations I am not aware that suitable applicants are being rejected. I shall be glad if my hon. Friend will send me particulars of any cases he has in mind.

Does not the Minister consider that even in the case of those who are to be called up at an early date, it is desirable to give them this special training, in view of their after-war employment?

That is a matter which has to be considered in conjunction with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Education. The whole question of training youth is now under consideration.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will institute an inquiry to discover why, when we are short of man-power and while industrial conscription is in force, it was necessary to pay, during the four weeks ended 28th March, £578,000 to people because they were unemployed?

No, Sir. I know of no reason for supposing that such an inquiry would reveal any facts which would justify the diversion of staff for this purpose.

Is it not rather a pity that there should be a lot of people doing nothing when we are short of man-power?

I do not agree that they are doing nothing. They are very busy, as a matter of fact.

If they are very busy, why is the Minister paying them money for doing nothing?

These men are entitled to public assistance, as some of them are the victims, unfortunately, of a failure to have a rehabilitation service much earlier.

Do I understand that people who are fit and able to work are receiving unemployment benefit, or are these people unable to work and receiving unemployment benefit?

Both. In some cases the men are changing from one job to another, or are stood off, and obviously they are entitled to benefit.

Is not a good deal of this money paid by the State to maintain people who have been partially disabled by industry, so that, therefore, the State is carrying the burden of industry?

asked the Minister of Labour what percentage of the £578,000 paid in unemployment benefit and unemployment allowances during the four weeks ended 28th March, 1942, was paid to coalminers?

I regret that the information asked for is not available.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Scottish salmon fisheries are working to only 40 per cent. of their capacity, due to lack of labour, and having regard to the small number of skilled men involved, many of whom are retained on labouring jobs with slender claims to the protection of the Essential Work Order, whether he will temporarily release them for about two months to ensure that a valuable food supply is harvested?

I am in consultation with my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Food on this matter and will communicate further with my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to the use of the word "green" on page 4 of the Annual Report of the Chief Inspector of Factories for the year 1940, Cmd. 6316; and why the word is used?

I agree that this phrase may be misunderstood, and it would be better for it not to be used. Instructions have been issued accordingly.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of registered trade unions in the United Kingdom, their total membership and their total funds, for the year ended, 1941, or the nearest available date; and whether the unregistered trade unions have to send a yearly return to the Registrar of Friendly. Societies?

The number of registered trade unions, their total membership and total funds as at 31st December, 1940, the latest date for which figures are available, are as follow:—

Unregistered trade unions are not required to send a yearly return to the Registrar of Friendly Societies in respect of their total membership and funds but Only of the receipts, funds, effects, expenditure, assets and liabilities of their political funds.

asked the Minister of Health the powers vested in standing committees set up under the Public Health Act, 1936, under Section 173 (2); and whether these powers enable the committees to grant financial assistance to' the dependants of all tubercular patients?

Under the Section to which my hon. Friend refers the council of a county or county borough may make such arrangements as they think desirable for the after-care of persons who have suffered from tuberculosis. I have no power to interpret the provisions of the Section.

If a council is in difficulty as to what are their exact powers, cannot they apply to the Minister for guidance?

I expect they would apply to me if they had any difficulty, but I must warn my hon. Friend that I have no power to interpret the Section. He will see, however, that my answer is in very wide terms.

Who has the power to interpret if the Minister has not?

asked the Minister of Health whether he can give any information regarding the investigation of scabies by Dr. Kenneth Mellanby; how many persons were infected with the disease; how long the period of examination lasted; what results were obtained; how many of the persons infected were conscientious objectors; whether it was a condition of registration that they should I undertake this experiment; and whether there were any temporary or permanent dangers attaching to it?

This investigation began at my instance, but is now being continued under the auspices of the Medical Research Council. Its object has been to obtain more knowledge of the parasite, the means by which scabies is spread, and the best methods of treatment. For this the services of human volunteers were essential. Forty-seven volunteers have been infected. They have remained under examination for varying periods up to 18 months. The investigation is still in progress, but preliminary results are to be found in the White Paper now available regarding scabies. Of the volunteers infected the majority, and all of those infected for more than one week, are conscientious objectors; none of them has been directed to this duty by a tribunal, though some who were already engaged in it when they went before a tribunal were exempted from military service on condition that they continued in the work or took up first-aid duties." They have t suffered discomfort rather than danger, but I am advised that they have not been free from risk of incurring some prolonged disability.

Was there a medical examination before these people underwent this experiment, and has there been a medical examination since, and, if so, with what result?

The matter comes at the moment under the Medical Research Council, and the examination is still continuing. It is most valuable work, and I have no doubt that it will have valuable results.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the pioneer dental scheme organised in Cambridge for young workers who have left school but who are ineligible for benefit from approved societies; and whether he will encourage all local authorities to take similar action?

I have no recent report upon the scheme, but I will make inquiries and consider my hon. Friend's suggestion.

Will the Minister consider taking some joint action with the President of the Board of Education with a view to seeing, that the work done in the schools is not thrown away during the years of adolescence?

I am always glad to work closely with my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the interest in post-war reconstruction, he will cause to be published the final report of the Central Advisory Water Committee, which is at present in draft form, having in mind the amount of labour and research expended in compiling it, and the importance of water supply and the management of rivers and waterways?

Some notes had, I am informed, been prepared on the direction of the Chairman to focus discussions with a view to the presentation of an agreed report on the question of the management of rivers. As the war supervened, the anticipated discussions in Committee did not take place, and there is therefore no report of the Committee in existence on this subject.

Will my right hon. Friend reconsider this matter, because I am informed on good authority that the report has been drafted?

I have been very careful about this matter, and I am sure that my answer is correct. I might add that this is one of the subjects which is under consideration with the many other varied problems concerning reconstruction.

If the details of the report are not published, how can the matter be under consideration?

I meant "issue" and not the report.

In view of what happened in regard to the water supply at Hong Kong and Singapore, has the Minister set up a committee to deal with the problem in this country?

My hon. Friend had better put down a Question on that point.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the waste of petrol, and official time and money, involved in the duplication of milk inspections by county councils and rural district councils because graded milk is under one authority and ordinary milk under another; and what remedial measures he proposes to take?

It is open to councils to arrange among themselves in order to avoid any duplication of inspection, so far as that may be consistent with duly carrying out their responsibilities. I will make inquiries with regard to the particular case about which my hon. Friend has communicated to me.

Does not the Minister agree that it is desirable that there should be co-ordination and not this waste?

I do not know about coordination, but undoubtedly it is desirable that they should work together.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is now in a position to announce the names and terms of reference of the Committee on the Salaries of Midwives?

Yes, Sir. I will circulate a list of the members in the OFFICIAL REPORT, The terms of reference of the Committee are:

"to draw up agreed scales of salaries and emoluments of State-certified midwives employed in England and Wales on maternity work in hospitals or maternity homes or in the domiciliary midwifery service, of non-medical supervisors of midwives, and of pupil midwives."

I am requesting this Committee to consult with the Nurses' Salaries Committee before making recommendations in regard to overlapping matters.

Does that include inspectors of midwives?

I will look into that and let my hon. Friend know.

What proportion of the Committee are women?

There are 25 members on the Committee, including the Chairman, and 13 of these are women.

Following is the list:

Midwives' Salaries Committee — Members.

CHAIRMAN.

The Rt. Hon. Lord Rushcliffe, G.B.E.

County Councils' Association.

Mr. J. Evans.

Miss K. J. Stephenson, C.B.E.

Dr. W. A. Bullough.

London County Council.

Dr. W. Allen Daley.

Queen's Institute of District Nursing.

Lady Richmond.

Mrs. Hurle.

Mrs. Kevill-Davies, M.B.E.

Association of Municipal Corporations.

Mr. Councillor Brosch.

Ald. Sir George Martin, K.B.E., J.P.

Mr. J. Lythgoe.

British Hospitals Association.

Mr. C. S. Wentworth-Stanley.

Mr. G. G. Panter.

College of Midwives.

Mr. F. Grundy, M.D., M.R.C.S., D.P.H., Barrister-at-Law.

Mr. Arnold Walker, M.A., M.B., F.R.C.S., F.R.C.O.G.

Miss Coni.

Miss Deane.

Mrs. Ross.

Mrs. F. R. Mitchell.

National Association of Local Government Officers.

Mr. C. A. W. Roberts, M.B.E.

Association of Supervisors of Midwives.

Miss M. E. Platt.

Trades Union Congress.

Miss J. Murphy, S.R.N., R.F.N., S.C.M.

Royal College of Nursing.

Miss L. Beulah.

Miss M. G. Sanday.

Miss M. F. Webb.

asked the Minister of Health whether it is intended that post-war reconstruction shall include the establishment of a complete State health service to be made available without charge to the whole population; and what steps are being taken to this end?

I am not at present in a position to make any statement on the wide issue raised by my hon. Friend, except that all the implications involved in the establishment of a complete public health service are being examined.

Will the Minister keep well before him the fact that a socialistic free service is the only road to good health for the nation?

My hon. Friend will notice that I stated "all the implications." That is only one of them.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the hardship experienced by employees of firms which have been evacuated through their having to continue to pay local rates on their houses; that the Income Tax authorities have offered to grant relief of Schedule A Income Tax to the extent to which relief from local rates is given on furnished unoccupied houses; and whether he will instruct local rating authorities to grant relief in such cases?

I have received representations on this matter. Reduction or remission of rates on the ground of the poverty of the person liable is wholly within the discretion of the rating authorities, and I am not empowered to give any such instruction to them as my hon. Friend suggests.

asked the Minister of Health whether he can give, for the five years, 1909 to 1913, 1920 to 1924 and 1934 to 1938, the numbers in each age-group then living?

The figures asked for, so far as available for England and Wales, have all been published; and since a very extensive tabular statement would be necessary to set them forth, I will send my hon. Friend particulars of the relevant publications, which it should be possible for him to consult in the Library of the House or in the Library of the Registrar-General's Department.

Does this not emphasise the extreme importance of having a provisional census as soon as possible seeing that we are working at present on the 1931 Census?

asked the Minister of Pensions what percentage of claims for hardship grants from men in the Services has been rejected; and will he take steps to see that the conditions governing these grants are more widely known and understood?

From the beginning of the scheme to 2nd May of this year the percentage of applications for war service grants which have been rejected is 20. The conditions governing these grants have been exceptionally widely publicised, as many members of this House will know; and I am continuing and extending the steps that have already been taken.

asked the Minister of Pensions how many doctors would be required for the establishment of an adequate number of pensions appeal tribunals?

Including the additional appointments which would have to be made to my own staff, I estimate that between 35 and 50 whole-time doctors would be required for the purpose in question.

Would it not be quite easy to obtain doctors and cannot the Minister take steps to set up these tribunals as soon as possible?

I have made every endeavour to secure doctors, but at the moment it is not possible to obtain them.

Can anything be done with the doctors already serving in the Army, who, fortunately, have not had much to do?

That avenue has been explored, as has every other avenue.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether a pension is payable in the case of a serving man killed in an accident while out on evening pass or short leave?

Pension is not normally payable in the circumstances stated, since what the man does or where he goes on such occasions is a matter of his own choice, and an accident sustained at such times cannot, therefore, be regarded as attributable to service. If, however, the accident occurred on the direct journey to or from the man's home when a short period of leave had been given for the express purpose of enabling him to visit his home for a reason such as family bereavement or distress at home, I am empowered to accept any resulting disablement or death as attributable to service.

In view of the fact that commanding officers are encouraged to give their men evening passes and short leave, ought not a man, taken away from his home and sent to some other part of the country where an accident happens while he is on military service, to become pensionable?

I have made a thorough review of this question, and I have again consulted my Advisory Committee on the matter. I have announced the improvements made in dealing with these accident cases, and I think that I have gone as far as it is possible.

Do the words "serving men" include members of the Home Guard?

If a member of the Home Guard is on duty, I can deal with his case.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that when a naval man who, through long service in the Royal Navy, has earned a life pension, and was recalled for service in the war, is wounded and discharged as unfit, his long service pension is taken into account when assessing disability pension, leaving him little better off; and whether consideration will be given to an amendment of the Regulations?

A man in receipt of a Service pension who is recalled and subsequently sustains a disability attributable to service in the present war may receive, in substitution for the Service pension, either a disability pension calculated in accordance with the peacetime Regulations of the Service to which he belongs or a disability pension under the war pensions code as for a non- regular member of the Forces, whichever is the more favourable. I am, however, looking into the matter.

Will the right hon. Gentleman keep in mind that we ought to be a little more generous rather than niggardly when men have served for many years?

I am keeping all the points at issue in mind.

Does not the Minister consider it unjust that, because a man has a Service pension, his disability pension is reduced, whereas if he had a pension from a local authority, it would not be reduced?

That is one of the points I shall take into consideration.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will consider the advisability of establishing a special clinic for the treatment of disabled ex-Service men suffering from gastric disorders?

I consider that the medical needs of these cases are adequately met by existing arrangements, but a suggestion has been made that this matter should be discussed between medical experts, and I have offered to arrange this.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he has now any statement to make as to the setting-up, at an early date, of a pension appeal tribunal?

I have nothing to add to the statement which I made on 19th March in reply to the hon. Member for Deritend (Sir J. Smedley Crooke), except that consideration is being given, as I promised, to the suggestion made by the hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Silverman) during the Debate on the Adjournment on 29th April.

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper in the name of Sir JOHN MELLOR:

35. "To ask the Minister of Pensions whether he will reconsider the policy of treating widows of Home Guard officers, killed in the course of duty, less favourably than widows of other commissioned officers killed in the same circumstances."

May I ask for your guidance, Sir? I addressed this Question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and it appeared on the Paper in that form. I submit that that was the correct procedure, because on Thursday the Minister of Pensions stated in a supplementary reply on the same point that he could not answer for policy. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has transferred this Question to the Minister of Pensions, although it deals with policy and not with administration. I ask you. Sir, if you will direct that this Question should be retransferred to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and postponed until the next Sitting Day?

Perhaps we had better hear what the answer of the Minister of Pensions is first.

I am consulting the other Departments concerned in this matter and will communicate with my hon. Friend in due course.

asked the Home Secretary whether, in the interest of public security and to prevent the incoming of spies, he will issue instructions that no person from a neutral country will be admitted into the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland unless the identity card produced has attached to it the photograph of the person seeking admission?

As my hon. Friend is aware, the whole subject of the entry of persons from Eire into Northern Ireland has received the most careful consideration and is continually being reviewed. I do not think, however, that the interests of public security would be advanced by refusing to accept for identification purposes any documents other than those bearing the holder's photograph.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that persons have come from Eire to Northern Ireland without identity cards and have been found out after being there for some time, and that others have come in with borrowed identity cards? What measures is he going to take to prevent spies coming in?

I do not think that the affixing of a photograph would solve that problem.

asked the Home Secretary whether, as the arrangement that six months must elapse between the granting of permits to Northern Ireland people resident in Britain to enable them to visit Ulster occasions hardship to all, and especially to teachers, he will fix the intervening period at five instead of six months?

As my hon. Friend is aware, my attention has been frequently drawn to this matter, and I have given it the most sympathetic consideration, but the necessity for maintaining the restrictions on travel to or from Ireland has not in any way lessened. I can only say that, if changed circumstances should at any time seem to permit of an arrangement under which school teachers and others could be granted permits to return to their homes in Northern Ireland for Christmas, as well as for the summer holidays, I shall be only too glad to examine the matter further but, in the meantime, I regret that I must adhere to my previous decision.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is being very seriously felt in Northern Ireland, and by people from Northern Ireland working in Great Britain, especially teachers? They can only have one holiday in the year, and many of them have to take lodgings here during their holidays.

Has the right hon. Gentleman yet considered the proposal put up to him under which it would be possible to get permits twice a year instead of having a rigid period of six months between each application?

Yes, and I answered a Question at the time. It was not considered that it would be a wise thing to do. There is a certain amount of congestion, and the passport people have difficulties, and we have to be careful for security reasons. While I am sympathetic and sorry to cause inconvenience, as things stand I cannot alter it, but, if I get a chance to reconsider it, I will do so.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has considered a communication sent from the Whittlesey (Isle of Ely) Urban District Council, pointing out that the divisional headquarters of the National Fire Service at Whittlesey is overstaffed, and complaining that petrol is being unnecessarily used; and whether he is making investigations and is in a position to make a statement?

I have consulted the Regional Commissioner about these representations, which appear to be based upon an incomplete knowledge of the facts. The divisional headquarters at Whittlesey are responsible for the administration of the Fire Service over a wide area, comprising two counties, and not merely in the urban district of Whittlesey, and the Regional Commissioner does not consider the staff employed excessive. The allegations of petrol wastage concern the use of a motor car to convey some members of the divisional staff from Wisbech to Whittlesey. This has been necessary following the transfer of the divisional headquarters from Wisbech, because some of the staff have not so far been able to find accommodation at Whittlesey, but the Regional Commissioner is looking into the question whether other arrangements cannot be made.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that members of the National Fire Service, whose personal belongings, kept at their fire stations, have been destroyed by enemy action, are unable to get coupons with which to obtain replacements; and will he take steps to deal with this matter urgently?

A fireman who has lost articles of clothing which are replaceable only against the surrender of coupons can apply to the local collector of Customs and Excise for additional coupons in the same way as any member of the general public. If my hon. Friend is aware of any case where additional coupons have been refused to a fireman merely because he was a fireman, I shall be glad to make further inquiry if he will send me particulars.

asked the Home Secretary whether he has any statement to make on the resignation of the Honourable Arthur Howard, General Wallace Wright, V.C., and other prominent air-raid precautions officials?

I am glad to have an opportunity of making a statement on this matter in amplification of the announcement which I caused to be issued last week. As regards the resignation of Mr. Howard, I have nothing to add to the terms of that announcement, but as regards the remainder of the Question, the position is that as it has been decided not to make any fresh appointment to the post of Principal Warden, the assistants to the former Principal Warden, of whom General Wallace Wright was one, have been given notice of the termination of their appointments as such. They were offered temporary appointments in a new capacity as advisers to the Regional Commissioners on matters relating to the Wardens Service, and one of them (Mr. K. Dowson, O.B.E.) has accepted an appointment in this capacity, but I regret to say that the remainder have not felt able to accept the offer.

I should like to make it clear that the new arrangements do not in any way imply that either I or the Regional Commissioners are lacking in appreciation of the importance of the Wardens Service. The cardinal part which the wardens have played in the stirring times through which the Civil Defence Services have gone since the autumn of 1940 is well recognised by all who have had anything to do with them, and I can assure the House that it will be our constant endeavour, in co-operation with the local authorities, to see that the welfare and efficiency of the service are fully maintained.

Is the effect of the answer that in future the wardens will be directly under the local Civil Defence committees in the same way as the ambulance service and other parts of Civil Defence?

Yes, Sir, subject to the general supervision of the Regional Commissioners.

asked the Home Secretary whether Anderson and Morrison shelters, under certain circumstances, such as suitability of premises, etc., are now provided free to all, without regard to income?

The free supply of these shelters is normally limited to per- sons whose income does not exceed £350 a year, but in certain special circumstances free issues are made irrespective of this income limit.

Does my right hon. Friend know that the Corporation of Winchester are advertising free Morrison and Anderson shelters, whereas people in other towns which need them far more had to pay for them?

Free shelters are available up to the income limit. I am not aware that Winchester Corporation are supplying them universally free, but if there is any evidence to that effect I will look into it. The policy is the policy which I have stated.

asked the Home Secretary what action has been taken on the Report of the Select Committee upon Police Widows' Pensions presented last September?

asked the Home Secretary whether it is intended to take steps to enable the pensions of police widows and other dependants, paid under the Police Pensions Act, 1921, to be supplemented?

This matter has been considered at meetings of the Police Council, but I regret that I cannot at present add anything to my previous replies on this subject.

In view of the very inadequate provision now made for police widows, is it not time that the recommendations of the report should be expedited?

I should very much like to do so, but the matter is still before the Police Council, who have not yet arrived at agreement on the matter, and it is important that before I do anything, or arrive at a conclusion, I should know the views of the Police Council.

asked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been called to the increasing thefts of handbags, coats, etc., at London dance halls; and whether women detectives are available for managements in order to protect the public and trap the offenders?

I have no information which suggests that there has been any noticeable increase in this class of offence. As regards the second part of the Question, apart from the responsibility of clients to take all reasonable care of their possessions, it is primarily a matter for the managements concerned to take steps by the provision of adequate staff or otherwise, to safeguard the property of clients while on their premises.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in connection with the forthcoming retirement of the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury, he will consider, as regards the appointment of his successor, the separation of the function of responsibility for the personnel and organisation of the Civil Service from the function of Permanent Secretary to the Treasury, creating a special post for the former?

Similar suggestions have been made from time to time. I can only say that they have been noted.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in all ranks of the public service there is widespread recognition of the necessity for radical reform and that an indispensable condition of that reform is the separation of functions as suggested in the Question, so that we can have a real head of the service answerable for its organisation and personnel?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend will note the information given by the hon. Member.

Is the right hon. Gentleman in sympathy with the principle in this Question?

That is another matter.

Will my right hon. Friend consider appointing a committee to investigate this problem?

asked the Prime Minister whether he has considered the terms of a resolution, passed at a meeting of old age pensioners, held in the Picton Hall, Liverpool, on 10th May, unanimously requesting that a revision in the rates of pensions paid should be made; that the basic rate should be not less than 20s. per week per person; that supplementary payments should be made to cover the increased cost of living; that the means test and stamp qualifications should be abolished and the aged provided with modern dwellings at rents they can afford; and what answer he has returned?

asked the Prime Minister what reply he has given to the resolution carried by the Atherton branch of old age pensioners asking for a substantial increase in the old age pension?

I have been asked to reply. I have considered the resolutions referred to, and I would refer my hon. Friends to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Mr. Tinker) on 3rd March.

That reply gets us nowhere. We are asking for something definite from the Government to let us know the real position. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that unless the Government do something, they will have trouble all the time.

Will my right hon. Friend give further consideration to this matter? It is causing considerable agitation throughout the country, and I feel that it would be the wish of the House if I suggested that the most serious and sympathetic consideration should be given to it before the Government reply to the representation. The old age pensioners are a very deserving section of the community.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that a couple of old age pensioners living together are receiving less to live upon, allowing for rent and other charges, than many juveniles in industry? Apart from that, does he not appreciate that the feeling in the country is very intense on this issue and that we cannot wait much longer?

I have dealt several times lately with various aspects of this matter.

But the right hon. Gentleman's replies have always been unsatisfactory, and, in view of the feeling in all quarters of the House, is it not time the Government took notice of what has been said?

How much would the personal allowance for Income Tax have to be diminished in order to provide the money for this increase?

The cost of the addition to current expenditure on pensions and supplementary pensions mentioned by my hon. Friend in his Question would be something in the nature of £200,000,000 a year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the people of this country as well as old age pensioners want the means test abolished?

Will it be in Order for me to call for the right hon. Gentleman's resignation?

asked the Prime Minister whether he has considered the appeal made to him by a mass meeting of old age pensioners and supporters, held at the Picton Hall, Liverpool, on Sunday, 10th May, when a resolution was passed asking for an increase on the basic rate of 10s. a week; and will he give an early date for the matter to be discussed by Parliament?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which has just been given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to my hon. Friend the Member for Everton (Mr. Kirby). As regards the second half of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the answers which I gave on 30th April to Questions on this subject arising out of the Business statement.

What we are asking for is that the House of Commons might have an opportunity of hearing the views of all Members. If the Government give that opportunity, I will accept the decision.

I have told my hon. Friend that there were a number of other matters which it was more urgently desired to discuss in the House, but a consideration would be given, if Members desired, to having such a discussion at an early date.

In view of my right hon. and learned Friend's frequently expressed views on this subject over many years in his political life, has not he any resilience with regard to it?

I have plenty of resilience on the subject, but the House has not the time at the moment to discuss it.

asked the Home Secretary whether he will consider amending Rule 65 of the 1926 Rules governing the salary to be paid to temporary full-time probation officers so as to bring these rules in line with the 1937 Rules governing permanent officers, and to allow a salary to be paid to temporary officers in keeping with present day conditions?

I am anxious that all probation officers—whether temporary or permanent—shall be persons properly qualified for their important public duties and shall be suitably remunerated. I will look into the point raised by my hon. Friend.

asked the President of the Board of Education (1) whether he is aware that the income scales for free school meals of many local education authorities are based on the assumption that 5s. a week is sufficient to feed, maintain and clothe, each additional child beyond the first, whereas the Ministry of Health scale for evacuated children is 8s. 6d. per week for lodging and feeding only; and will he take action to secure more equitable treatment of large families by local education authorities;

(2) whether he is aware of the wide disparity of the income scales adopted by different local education authorities in deciding whether elementary schoolchildren shall receive free meals; and, as the bulk of the cost of free school meals for elementary schoolchildren is met by the Board of Education, will he lay down a standard income scale for the guidance of local authorities, to ensure equality of opportunity for free school meals throughout the country?

Local education authorities are under a statutory obligation to satisfy themselves whether parents are able to pay for school meals provided for their children. In July, 1940, the Board asked all authorities, whose scales had not recently been revised, to review the position, and the income scales of most authorities have been revised in consultation with the Board in the light of the increased cost of living. It is the Board's practice to take exception to any scale which does not provide for meals to be given free where the net income for a family of five is less than 8s. or 9s. per head with suitable gradations for larger and smaller families, and in many instances considerably higher scales have been adopted. I am aware, however, that in some areas the scales are less generous and I propose to circulate to local education authorities the hon. Member's Question and my reply with a request that in such cases the scales should be reviewed.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply?

asked the President of the Board of Education what progress has been made in consultations with educational bodies respecting possible proposals and legislation; and when he expects to be ready to introduce an Education Bill dealing with war-time needs and post-war development?

The consultations with representatives of educational bodies and other interests on educational problems, initiated by my predecessor, have been carried on and are proving very useful. The Government are not yet in a position to decide upon the nature of its final plans, and the stage of legislation has not yet been reached. We are in a formative period, and I can assure the hon. Member that consideration will be given at this time to any constructive ideas that may be put forward.

When is the right hon. Gentleman likely to be in a position to make an announcement with regard to legislation, especially in view of the widespread hope in many educational quarters that a Bill will be introduced in the near future?

I certainly trust that those hopes will not be disappointed, but we have not got far enough with our preliminary negotiations.

When is it likely that the preliminary work will be concluded?

I cannot give any exact date.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that the Lewes Education Committee is arranging for the scholars in one of their schools to leave the school building and attend a religious service in church once each week and intends to extend this practice to other schools in the same area; whether parents have been fully informed that this is not compulsory; whether children not attending the service are required to attend the school during that period; whether registers are marked in the church or the school and at what time; what is the respective position of teachers and ecclesiastical representatives involved in this scheme; and whether it has his approval?

This proposal which was communicated to my Department by the local education authority has been under examination by the officers of the Board. I am having further inquiries made and will then send the hon. Member an answer to the several points which he has raised.

Does the Minister appreciate that meanwhile this sets an example to other education committees which might give rise to a good deal of conflict in the educational world? Does he not think it better that if a minister of religion wishes children to attend his church, he should arrange for services out of school time?

It is because I realise the importance of this subject that I have taken the trouble to which I refer in my answer of investigating the matter before I send the hon. Member an answer.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that last night I had the opportunity of meeting a large audience of my constituents in Lewes, and that I found that no measure of dis- satisfaction exists on this matter; and further, that there is only an ardent desire to remind the questioner of the inestimable value of the virtues of humility and minding one's own business?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that there is a growing feeling in the country that, in addition to the development of physical training and simple recreation games, efforts should be made to develop the more vigorous and specialised sports; and whether he will convene a meeting of representatives of the governing bodies of the major sports, such as athletics, gymnastics, swimming and wrestling, etc., to explore ways of developing such activities in the interest of the physical and mental well-being of our younger generation?

The governing bodies of sports are members of the Central Council of Recreative Physical Training, with which my Department works in close collaboration. I do not underestimate the great importance of the activities to which my hon. Friend refers, but I have received no approach on these subjects from the Council.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take it from me that a good many people are in favour of the idea in this Question, and will he not agree that while a lot of work is being done there is still plenty of room for the encouragement of co-ordination among the various bodies?

Yes, Sir.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether directions have been given to the educational authorities throughout the country that the younger men and women teachers should be released for service in the war effort, their places being taken by those who are beyond serving age; and why, as in the instance cited to him, such directions, if given, are not being followed?

The policy decided upon under present circumstances is that men teachers over 35 in recognised schools are not to be called up, and those under 35 whose calling up has been deferred will have their deferment continued. The loss to the schools of several thousand of the younger men teachers makes it essential to the proper conduct of the public system of education that women teachers should remain in the schools, and it is for this reason that women teachers in recognised schools are not to be considered for withdrawal to the Auxiliary Services or to other forms of national service.

Will my right hon. Friend say whether there is anything in the instance which I gave him which called for his intervention?