asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give the number of persons, male and female, who have been granted deferment conditionally upon giving paid service to E.N.S.A.; the ages of those concerned; and the identifying tribunals by whom these deferments were, respectively, recommended?

Deferment has been granted for 682 persons who have undertaken to give their services to E.N.S.A. for not less than six weeks each year. This total comprises 154 men over 33 years of age and 528 women born between the years 1918 and 1924 inclusive, and in each case deferment has been granted on the recommendation of the Lytton Committee.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the majority of those whom he has mentioned give longer service than six weeks to E.N.S.A?

Six weeks is the minimum. I think they are doing pretty well.

asked the Minister of Labour, the number of conscientious objectors of suitable age and physical fitness who have been directed to work in the coalmines?

The information desired is not available, but I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the answers that I gave to the hon. Members for Tamworth (Sir J. Mellor) and Holland with Boston (Mr. Butcher) on 9th December, and to the hon. Member for Cambridge (Lieut.-Commander Tufnell) on 23rd September.

Not having those answers by me, I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is his policy to direct these and suitable conscientious objectors to the mines before he directs our young and immature boys?

No, Sir. The point is that a conscientious objector has a right to go to a tribunal, and coalmining, like everything else, is one of the occupations to which it is open to the chairman to direct people. I cannot interfere with the process of the law.

Does it not look from the figures as though practically everybody is directing conscientious objectors to mining?

I think the miners are to be complimented on the way they have withstood the danger that other people want to avoid.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange that the medical examination of youths liable to be conscripted for coalmining shall include examination by a psychologist, who will decide whether they are temperamentally suited or not for work of this kind, before their names are subjected to the ballot?

No, Sir. It would not be practicable to submit all men who are examined under the National Service Acts to a special psychological examination directed to temperamental fitness for coal-mining. Men selected for direction to coalmining will be given a further medical examination if they so request.

In view of the trouble that has been caused in the mines in the past by compelling those who were unsuited to the work to undertake it, does the Minister not think it would be just as well to be wise in time and take such steps as I have indicated, as there is otherwise the danger of trouble from the other miners?

I have never yet accepted psychologists as people with supreme wisdom.

Very short-sighted.

No. It is the hon. Member who is short-sighted.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has come to any arrangement with the Government of South Africa that English women living in South Africa but not born there, should be conscripted by the Union Government; and South African women born in South Africa but held up in England by the war should be conscripted by the British Government?

No such arrangement has been made, and I would remind my hon. and gallant Friend that the Government of South Africa have not introduced conscription.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that Mr. J. E. H. Barker, of 14, Park Gates, South Harrow, was discharged from his employment on grounds of serious misconduct, as a result of which police court proceedings were brought against him; that these proceedings were dismissed and that the Appeal Tribunal nevertheless rejected Mr. Barker's appeal against his discharge; and whether, in view of the fact that the alleged misconduct constituted the sole basis for the police court proceedings which were dismissed, he will order a re-hearing of the case?

The local appeal board were aware of the result of the police court proceedings, but, in the light of all the evidence before them, they were of the opinion that the worker's action amounted to serious misconduct justifying dismissal. In these circumstances, the National Service Officer has no power under Article 5 (3) (b) of the Essential Work Order to direct Mr. Barker's reinstatement, and there is no further action I can take in the matter.

Is this not an amazing situation and one that calls for intervention by the Minister? This man was proved in a public court innocent of misconduct, but the employers, somehow or other, are able to get an appeal court to decide against the decision of the public court. Does that not call for some intervention?

There are many things done in industry and life which are not criminal offences but are very unwise.

Is the Minister not begging the point? The same chap who was before the public court was before the appeal committee, but while the public court exonerated him from the charge of misconduct the appeal board dismissed him for it. He was charged before the committee with a criminal offence.

In answer to that long argument I can only say that the man was charged in the court with a criminal offence. In the case of the Essential Work Order it was only a question of fact whether his misconduct contravened the Order and not whether it was criminal at all.

asked the Minister of Labour if he intends calling up Lady Mosley under the Essential Work Order?

I presume the reference is to action under the Registration for Employment Order. I am informed that Lady Mosley has two children of her own under 14 living with her, and it would not be in accordance with normal practice to call upon her to take work under that Order, even apart from any special restrictions to which her movements may be subject.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see to it that the activities of this lady are confined to looking after her sick husband and her young children?

That is a matter for the Home Office.

May I ask whether Lady Mosley could be examined for phlebitis?

Has she nurses or maids to help her in looking after them?

Not that I am aware of.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that South Wales miners on full compensation are being called up for medical examination by the recruiting section of his Ministry; and whether he will take the necessary action to prevent this procedure?

I am not clear what kind of cases my hon. Friend has in mind, and perhaps he will let me have particulars.

Is the Minister aware that this is rather an urgent matter? The two colliers who were on full compensation for total disablement were called to a medical board yesterday for examination, for call-up for the Army.

We might not have known they were on compensation. They may have been on the register, duly registered. If the hon. Member will let me have the names and there has been any difficulty about it, I will look into it.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the result of the draw, on the occasion of each ballot for compulsory coalmining, will be published forthwith so that members of the J.T.C. may know their position?

No, Sir; since there are going to be frequent ballots, the publication of the number or numbers drawn would cause confusion and would mislead many men who are not for the time being on the register for calling up to the Forces, because, for example, their calling up is deferred or postponed and they are, therefore, not within the field of the ballot. Each man picked out for coalmining as a result of the ballot will receive notice of the fact very shortly afterwards.

Is it fair to keep boys training for the Forces in their spare time when there is a strong probability that they will go into the mines?

Oh, yes. I think the training for the Forces is of a character, physical and mental, that does not detract from their ability to work in the mines.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that in the district of Thornley and Wheatley Hill, County Durham, there are several men who have been rendered unemployed owing to bronchial complaints; that all these men were coal hewers; that they applied for surface work which was refused; that they are now receiving unemployment benefit which is inadequate to maintain themselves and their families; and whether he will take all possible steps to find suitable work for them and others similarly placed?

I am having inquiries made and will write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

Will my right hon. Friend be good enough to expedite the inquiries?

Yes, I have given instructions.

asked the Minister of Labour whether when a worker has been directed to another area and a strike takes place involving the union of which the worker is a member, the worker in question fails to qualify for the guaranteed wage or for the continuing liability allowances unless he reports for work, in spite of the strike in which his union is engaged; and whether he is also refused permission to return to his former employment in his own area?

I assume that my hon. Friend refers to a worker directed to employment in an undertaking scheduled under the Essential Work Order. If the worker fails to report for work he is not entitled to the guaranteed wage or allowances. If he wishes to return to his former employment the National Service Officer will consider his application. If permission to return is refused, he has the usual right of appeal.

Does the result of that answer not mean that a worker who is directed to another district forfeits all pay and allowances unless he is willing, I might say able, to blackleg the union with which he is now working?

The point is that if there is a strike and the man wants to return because of the strike the National Service Officer will take that into account immediately the case is brought to him.

Mr. Sorensen.

I hope, before answering Question No. 16, I might be allowed to say one word to express the regret which we all feel at the premature death of Sir John Herbert, once a well loved Member of this House, and since a popular and esteemed Governor of the great Province of Bengal. There can be little doubt that his unwearying devotion to duty contributed to the breakdown which ended in his death.

Hear, hear.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he has any report on the health of Mrs. Gandhi; and whether, as in the case of other women detainees who have been released on grounds of ill-health, Mrs. Gandhi is likely to be released from detention?

Mrs. Gandhi, who has been subject to heart attacks for some time, had two severe heart attacks at the end of November. Since then she has had one further slight attack, but although weak is reported to be better. The Government of India some time ago considered her release on grounds of health, but formed the view to which they still hold that it would be in Mrs. Gandhi's own interest to remain where she is with one of the most eminent heart specialists in India living on the premises and able to attend her at any time.

While also expressing the sympathy so eloquently expressed by the Secretary of State, might I ask, regarding Mrs. Gandhi, whether she has the opportunity and option of leaving if she so desires?

The question of leaving was considered, and she has been allowed to see relatives, but following medical advice it was considered that she is most securely situated where she is.

While thoroughly appreciating all that has been done for Mrs. Gandhi, can I take it that if the medical advisers desire it or she herself desires to leave incarceration, permission will be given to her?

I must leave that to the Government of India.

Is not the heart condition of Mrs. Gandhi worse than phlebitis?

Are we to take it from this reply that the strong feelings expressed by the other side of the House are only for the liberation of Fascists and not for the liberation of fighters for freedom such as the Indians?

asked the Secretary o State for India whether the Benga Government have supplied to the Central Government or have published information respecting deaths through starvation the number taken to hospital or medically treated for conditions arising through malnutrition and the number of cases of cholera and the deaths from this during the past six months?

As I informed the hon. Member on 2nd December, figures of famine deaths for the whole of Bengal are not available. Figures for Calcutta for the period 16th August to 11th December, 1943, are as follows:—Admissions to hospital of starving persons 16,285. Deaths among such admissions 6,156. In addition, during the period 1st August to 11th December, the number of bodies disposed of by police or non-official relief organisations in Calcutta was 9,216, but this total may include some deaths not due to starvation. The total number of deaths from cholera in the whole of the Bengal Presidency between 27th June and 13th November was 77,938.

Has the right hon. Gentleman seen the statement issued allegedly by the Bengal Public Health Department that the total number of deaths directly or indirectly attributable to starvation is round about 150,000 in Bengal?

I can only go by the figures I receive from the Central Government of India, which in turn receives its figures from the Bengal Government.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been drawn to the hardship to officers and especially married junior officers due to the high cost of living in India; and what steps he has taken, or proposes to take, to improve their position?

Proposals for ameliorating the position of the junior married officer are under discussion with the Government of India, and I am doing my best to expedite a decision.

Will the position of other ranks be taken into account, since the high cost of living must presumably affect them as well as officers?

Yes, Sir. I think they are being taken into account, but the particular problem of Income Tax which affects the junior married officer does not affect them.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that the wages paid to Indian seamen employed on British-owned ships are approximately only one-fourth of that paid to Britishers employed on the same vessels and that the cubic space allowed to Indian seamen on those ships is approximately one-half that allowed to the rest of the crew; and will he take steps to remedy these anomalies?

If the comparison is between the wages of the ordinary Indian seaman and the fully-qualified European A.B. or efficient deckhand the position is as stated by the hon. Member. But the Indian does not do the same amount of work and there is accordingly a great disparity in the numbers that have to be employed. As regards accommodation, it is true that the minimum cubic space required by the Merchant Shipping Acts to be provided in the accommodation for Indian seamen is much less than that required for European crews. But in practice the space provided for Indian seamen on ships built in recent years has almost invariably been not less than the statutory minimum required for European crews. As I informed the hon. Member on 2nd December, the position regarding the conditions of employment of Indian seamen is at present under active consideration by the Government of India.

Does the right hon. Gentleman suggest in his answer that one European can do the work of four Indians, and really cannot he take some action to bring these disgraceful conditions to an end?

No, Sir, I certainly would not go as far as that. As I say, the problem of improving these conditions is at the moment being actively considered by the Government of India.

Is it the implication that one Indian breathes only one-quarter of the air that one Englishman breathes? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that conditions have been bad for some time, and why has not action been taken before?

No, Sir. If the hon. Member would do a little calculation, he would find that 72 is rather more than a quarter of 120.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether any estimate has been made of the cost which would be involved in bringing the buildings of non-provided schools throughout the country up to the standard required for provided schools; and what is the probable number of new non-provided schools which are likely to be required and the estimated cost of their provision?

The extent of the alterations, improvements and new construction required for this purpose cannot be accurately determined until the development plans have been prepared by local education authorities, and the proportion of the cost falling to the managers and public funds respectively will not be known until the managers have had an opportunity of exercising the options offered to them under the Education Bill. In the circumstances any estimate made at this stage of the cost involved in respect of the whole range of non-provided schools must necessarily be tentative.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that this question of cost is a vital matter in considering the proposals of the Bill relating to non-provided schools and is he aware that the estimated cost of modernising many non-provided schools throughout the country even with the 50 per cent. grant, and building the necessary new schools, is beyond the means of many non-provided school managers?

That is a very big question and one which is a matter of opinion, but I am, of course, aware that the new proposals will involve certain burdens for the managers.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that he made an estimate to me some little time ago of the cost of this proposal, and is that estimate still holding good?

Anything I say to the hon. Member and to the House holds good.

asked the President of the Board of Education the number of children belonging to itinerant van-dwellers who have received any substantial education this year; and whether, with regard to the prosecution of parents for non-attendance of their children, any fixed period of such attendance is prescribed as a minimum?

I regret that the informa-asked for in the first part of the Question is not available. As regards the second part, the prosecution of parents for the non-attendance of their children at school is primarily a matter of taking proceedings under the school attendance by-laws which, generally speaking, require whole-time attendance at school. It is, however, necessary to bear in mind the provisions of Section 10 (3) of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, which gives relief from proceedings under that Section in cases where a child of the type referred to makes not less than 200 school attendances from October to March.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that actually the school attendances of most of these children is at best intermittent, partly owing to the nomadic habits of their parents in moving and partly owing to their being sent away dirty or verminous, and will he take steps to see that they receive more education?

If my hon. and gallant Friend will study the new proposals which I have put before the House, he will see that these matters, among others, are referred to in the draft Bill.

asked the Minister of Health the reasonable rent figure for two old age pensioners in the Barnsley district; and the high and low rent rules in that district?

Under the existing Supplementary Pensions Regulations the question whether the rent in any case is reasonable or not is determined in accordance with the rules recommended by the local advisory committee. As the rules recommended by the Barnsley Committee are of considerable length and complication they do not permit of any figures being given and I am sending a copy of them to my hon. Friend.

Will the Minister send a copy to me, because this matter affects my area?

With pleasure.

Thank you very much.

asked the Minister of Health how many houses were reconditioned under the Housing (Rural Workers) Act, 1926, up to the outbreak of hostilities in September, 1939?

Approximately 19,500.

asked the Minister of Health how many cottages have been reconditioned under the Housing (Rural Workers) Act, 1926, during the war period September, 1939, to November, 1943; and whether any estimate has been made of the number which can be made habitable at the present time?

Approximately 3,300 cottages were reconditioned between September, 1939, and November, 1943. No estimate can be given of the number of cottages which can be made habitable at the present time.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend realise that the question of cottages and houses for rural workers—indeed, for all workers—is one of great priority?

I realise that it is one of great urgency and importance. The whole question is being considered by the Hob-house Committee.

But is it not desirable that the Government should specially comprehend this matter?

asked the Minister of Health whether his Department is preparing plans for the mass production, outside the building industry, of emergency housing to meet post-war requirements?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to him on this subject on 14th December by my right hon. Friend the Minister without Portfolio.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept responsibility for this type of building, or is it the responsibility of some other Departments?

Quite clearly it should be planned by the several responsible Ministers in consultation.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend—

We must get on; we are going very slowly.

asked the Minister of Health whether it is his intention after the war to arrange for a continuation of loans through the Public Works Loans Committee to local authorities which have adopted the Small Dwellings Acquisition Act to enable them to assist persons desiring to purchase houses for their own occupation?

I do not contemplate any change in the pre-war arrangements under which local authorities can borrow from the Public Works Loan Board for the purposes of the Small Dwellings Acquisition Act.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the increase in the cost of building houses and the consequent increase in their prices, he will introduce legislation to amend the Small Dwellings Acquisition Act, so that the maximum price of a house that may be purchased under the Act is raised from £800 to £1,200 which was the figure in the original Act?

The point is being examined by the Sub-committee of the Central Housing Advisory Committee under the chairmanship of Sir Felix Pole, and I will certainly consider what action I ought to take to adapt this Act to postwar circumstances in the light of the Subcommittee's recommendations.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman remember that old houses, in addition to new ones, that cost £800 before the war are now being sold for £1,000 or more?

I am sure that that point is being considered by the Sub-committee.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is satisfied that all the 100,000 sites approved far post-war housing will not be interfered with by the construction of new main traffic arteries, the widening of existing roads or the construction of secondary roads, nor will they prevent or be interfered with by the development of green belts?

Steps are taken to ensure that all sites purchased by local authorities for housing purposes are free from objection on planning grounds. The housing land at present in possession of local authorities amounts to about 10,000 acres.

asked the Minister of Health whether it is proposed in the early future to consider the position of National Health Insurance contributors who have for long periods been in receipt of disablement allowances and are without other resources?

The position of the persons to whom my hon. Friend refers is being considered in connection with the Government's general proposals on social insurance. I cannot make any statement on the matter in advance of the White Paper.

Is the Minister aware that these people who are suffering not merely from sickness but from poverty are drawing only about one-third of the amount granted to old age pensioners?

The facts are known, but I do not think I can add to my answer. The whole matter is being dealt with and a White Paper has been promised for an early date.

asked the Minister of Health (1) how many extra beds are now required in Liverpool hospitals and sanatoria to accommodate those persons known to be in need of treatment for tuberculosis and for whom accommodation cannot be found;

(2) whether, having in mind the serious shortage of accommodation for Liverpool citizens suffering from tuberculosis and in need of specialised treatment for that complaint, he will consider reinstating for this purpose all accommodation formerly used in the treatment of this disease which, owing to the war, was taken over for general and emergency purposes?

I understand that the number of tuberculosis cases in Liverpool awaiting institutional treatment is about 140. I am informed that the Corporation proposes to provide a further 100 beds at Sparrow Hall Hospital, and as stated in reply to my hon. Friend's Question on 2nd December, I have approved an extension at Fazakerley Hospital designed to provide another 48 beds. It is not practicable to restore the same accommodation for tuberculosis as there was before the emergency, but I am advised that the extra provision which I have mentioned, together with other arrangements that the Corporation has made from time to time during the war period, will bring the total accommodation for treatment of tuberculosis very close to the pre-war level.

While thanking the right hon. and learned Gentleman for his reply. I would like to give this notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that his inspectors when visiting public assistance institutions expect matrons, who are State registered nurses, to be responsible for the direction of the nursing of any inmates who fall sick pending their removal; and if he will further consider the position of such matrons in relation to the Rushcliffe recommendations?

I see no reason to modify the reply I gave my hon. Friend last week.

In view of the fact that the second Report makes the position more difficult, will the right hon. Gentleman receive a deputation, so that we can reach finality?

I shall be happy to consider any such request.

asked the Minister of Health how many cases of post-vaccinal encephalitis came to the notice of his department in 1941, 1942 and this year; how many of these were serving soldiers; and how many cases in air personnel and in naval personnel came to the notice of his department in 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942 and this year?

The numbers of cases of post-vaccinal encephalitis in 1941 and 1942 were 6 and 19, and the provisional figure to date for 1943 is 2. Of these 6 cases in 1941, 5 in 1942, and 1 in 1943 were serving soldiers. In reply to the last part of the question there were no cases among R.A.F. personnel in the five years mentioned; and among naval personnel there were no cases in 1939 and 1941, 1 case in 1940, 4 in 1942, and 1 during the present year.