asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Mr. Suresh Vaidya, an Indian citizen, resident in this country and employed as a journalist, having had his appeal as a conscientious objector rejected by the tribunals, is now being court-martialled for refusal to engage in military service; and whether, having regard to the fact that India's participation in the war has been up to now on a voluntary basis, he will take steps to end proceedings to compel this man's service.

According to my information, Mr. Vaidya has been resident in this country since 1932. He is, therefore, liable to be called up in accordance with the provisions of the National Service Acts. An enlistment notice was served on him, and I have no power to intervene.

Has it been done with the knowledge and approval of the India Office?

I could not answer that question offhand, but I am responsible for calling up people, and if people come within the Act I call them up, without distinction or discrimination.

As this is a very exceptional case, will my right hon. Friend look into it?

No, it has gone from my hands. An enlistment notice has been issued, in accordance with the law, and I cannot intervene.

Perhaps the Minister of Labour cannot intervene in a routine way, but he is a Member of the War Cabinet; and will he tell us whether it is the considered opinion of the Cabinet that Indian people, whose country is not under conscription at the moment, should be forced into military service, although the Secretary of State for India goes around boasting that India's contribution to the war is on a purely voluntary basis?

If the man has resided in this country for the specified period, he comes under the Act here. I have not interfered with anybody living in India.

asked the Minister of Labour whether any assessment has been formed by his Department of the manpower requirements of the cotton industry after the war.

I am in close touch with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, who is discussing post-war problems with the industry, but, until these discussions are further advanced, it would be premature to attempt to make an estimate of the kind referred to in the Question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that numbers of discharged Service-men in this war are wandering from workhouse to workhouse in search of food and shelter; that 192 of such admissions have been notified to the Ministry of Health since October last; and will he take steps, in conjunction with the Ministry of Health, to check up on these cases to see whether they are suitable for work and, if not, assist them by supplying them with information as to making application for war pension.

I am informed by my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health that the number of casuals admitted to public assistance institutions in the north of England who claimed to have been discharged from His Majesty's Forces or the Merchant Navy during the present war is, approximately, as stated by my hon. Friend. In very few cases, however, were they in possession of discharge papers. There is already an arrangement under which masters of institutions refer men who appear to be suitable for employment to my local offices on the day during which they are detained, and every facility to obtain employment or training is then given to them. It is not normally practicable for my officers to visit the institutions, but I am arranging with my right hon. and learned Friend that my officers shall carry out a special investigation, with a view to finding out to what extent, and for what reasons, these men are on the roads. I am suggesting to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions that his officers might take part in this investigation.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, might I ask whether he realises that many of these men who are walking from workhouse to workhouse are doing it solely because of dispiritedness resulting from their war experience; and that it is absolutely essential that the Departments concerned should take men in hand as quickly as possible after their discharge from the Forces?

Yes, I will go into the matter with my two right hon. Friends and try to stop it. But no Minister of Labour can really curb the nomadic instincts of some of these people.

Will the question of accommodation for these casuals be included in the inquiry? In some workhouses the masters have no accommodation for them and no one to look after them.

I think the inquiry will cover everything.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the position arising in various parts of the country by the arbitrary action of licensees in closing, periodically, their licensed premises as they think fit; and whether he proposes to take any action in the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether in view of the shortage of supplies in licensed houses due to the influx of Armed Forces and other reasons, he will take steps to modify the licensing laws so as to ensure that it is not necessary, for a licensee who has nothing to sell, to keep open his premises, thereby wasting electricity and fuel; and that such temporary and periodical closing, owing to lack of supplies, will not result in the loss of his licence.

The issue is not whether a licensee should be required to keep open when he has nothing to sell, but whether, when his supplies are only sufficient to enable him to serve customers for limited periods, he shall so arrange the hours of opening as to meet the needs and convenience of the public. At Grantham, for example, I understand that the local Association of Licensed Victuallers had agreed that, when hours of opening were curtailed, they would, at any rate, keep open from 8 to 10 each evening, when many people, including many soldiers stationed in the neighbourhood, are in need of a place of refreshment and social life, and would also keep open, if possible, for two hours in the middle of each day. Some licensees, however, had failed to comply with this arrangement, and preferred to keep open for seven or eight hours on certain days and to close altogether on other days. This arrangement may suit the convenience of the licensees themselves, but it would be unfair to those licensees, who are consulting the public interest rather than their own convenience, if no action were taken to induce the other licensees to come into line. While there is no specific requirement in the law that a licence-holder shall keep his bar open during the whole of the permitted hours, it is right that, when he proposes to close his premises during part of the usual hours, he should ascertain beforehand whether there would be any objection on the part of the licensing justices and the police. Otherwise, he exposes himself to such risk as there may be of objection being taken to the continuance of his licence.

Is it not a fact that the licence certifies that the licensee must keep the premises open a certain number of hours each day?

I could not say so, but I doubt it. The law does not require that the premises shall keep open for all the permitted hours.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will give the number of applications made for certification under the Pneumo-koniosis and Silicosis Orders for the year ended 31st December, 1943; the number certified as partially disabled and totally disabled; and give the number for Lancashire and Cheshire separately in each class.

The number of applications from coal miners dealt with by the Medical Board under the schemes of compensation and benefit for these diseases was 2,645, of which 31 were from Lancashire and Cheshire. The number certified to be totally disabled or suspended on account of the disease was 1,281 including 9 in Lancashire and Cheshire.

While thanking the Minister for his reply, may I ask if he will not collaborate with the Ministry of Fuel and Power with the object in view of preventing the ravages of these diseases making great inroads into the man-power in the mines?

I can assure the hon. Member that we will do all we can in that direction.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that a number of coalminers have been waiting for some time for examination by the medical board under the Pneumo-koniosis Order; and if he will take steps to expedite the examination of these men by the board.

I am aware that, owing to the large increase in the number of applications to the medical board from South Wales miners, examinations have been delayed. As I explained in reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Ness Edwards) on the 17th December last, the strength of the medical board in South Wales has been doubled, and further assistance is being given so far as is practicable. I fully recognise the desirability of doing everything possible to cope with the increased work, but my hon. Friend will also recognise that the claims on the medical profession at the present time make it very difficult to secure the services of qualified men who can devote time to this kind of work, and some delay is unavoidable. As the result of discussions with representatives of the South Wales Miners' Federation last week, I hope that, in future, priority of application will be given to cases where the disease is advanced and the workman is incapacitated for work.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can now make a statement on the question of double summer time for this year.

No, Sir, but I hope to be in a position to do so very shortly.

Would the right hon. Gentleman be able to answer the question on a day during the next Series of Sittings?

I cannot be sure.

Has the attention of the Minister been drawn to the fact that, not only in agricultural circles, but in certain industrial circles, there is an objection to double summer time?

Yes, Sir.

May I ask is the Minister aware that farmers object to double summer time, and whether, before coming to a final decision, he will consult the Minister of Agriculture?

The Minister of Agriculture is a constant consultant of mine on this subject, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will state the total number of children attending our elementary schools, boys and girls respectively; how many of them are employed, respectively, out of school hours; and whether all the education authorities have now adopted by-laws regulating such employment.

I am informed by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Education that about 4,500,000 children were attending public elementary schools last October. During the war—owing to the necessity of cutting down clerical work—returns of the number of school children employed have not been collected, and the latest figures available are for 1937, when about 70,000 boys and 10,000 girls were employed. By-laws regulating the employment of children have been made by 313 out of the 316 local authorities empowered to make by-laws. The general provisions of Section 18 (1) of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, and the Defence (Agriculture and Fisheries) Regulations, 1939, apply in all areas.

Is it possible for the Minister to issue a reminder to the small number of local authorities who have not got these by-laws to induce them to take steps to do so, and has there been an increase in the number of children employed during the war?

I could not give the answer to the last part of the question without notice. With regard to the local authorities, I think it is regrettable that they have not made the by-laws, but I will do all I can in the matter.

May I ask the Minister whether his Department has any knowledge whether all the local authorities which have the by-laws are really putting them into force?

I think that, generally speaking, they are.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps he is taking to encourage the employment of women police in view of the small number now in the force and the urgent need for an increase under war conditions.

I am anxious to encourage the employment of policewomen in all areas where there is a need for them, and my Department is doing everything it can with a view to increasing their numbers. As my hon. Friend will appreciate, the problem presents considerable difficulties in present circumstances, but I am not without hope that I shall be able to find some scheme for increasing temporarily at any rate the number of women police for employment in areas where special problems exist.

Is the Minister not aware that there are still a number of areas where no women police are employed at all, or other than a very small number, and will he use his great persuasive powers to increase them?

The answer to both questions is in the affirmative.

Cannot something stronger than persuasion be used?

It would be very nice if I could employ magic, but I have not reached those heights yet.

Can the Minister say what is the number of women police employed throughout the country?

Not without notice.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can state the number of counties in which the approval of police appointments is still obtained from the justices in petty sessions.

I understand that this is the general practice, but I have no detailed information as to the procedure followed in every individual county police force.

May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that there is a tendency on the part of some chief constables to ignore these justices in the appointment of policemen and will the right hon. Gentleman look into that?

If the hon. Member has any particular cases, I certainly will look into them. This legal provision comes from the year 1839, and I think it is a little bit out of date, but still it is the law. I will take notice of any cases to which the hon. Member cares to draw my attention.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will consider the advisability of publishing, for the information of hon. Members, examples of the agreed syllabus for religious education.

The existing examples of agreed syllabuses of religious instruction are issued by local education authorities and are not submitted to the Board who, under the present law, do not inspect or supervise religious instruction. I am afraid, therefore, that I am unable to do as the hon. Member suggests, but I will obtain copies of some of the existing syllabuses and place them in the Library for the information of hon. Members.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, may I ask whether he will consider the possibility of publishing some of them in the form of a White Paper?

They are already available in printed form, and I suggest that if I place copies in the Library, hon. Members may obtain copies of their own agreed syllabus from their own areas.

In view of the rather wild statements sometimes appearing in print about this, would it not be in the interest of the public to make a more general publication?

The more the agreed syllabuses are known, the more widely they will be approved, and any steps which I can take I will do.

asked the Minister of Health if he has now completed his arrangements with the local authorities of England and Wales for meeting arrears of work and maintenance due to the war; and whether plans are ready for the transference of labour from war duties as soon as such workers are available.

I am in communication with local authorities in connection with post-war work on those of their major services, such as housing, water-supply and sewerage, with which I am concerned, and I am sending my hon. Friend copies of Circulars which I have recently addressed to them. The distribution of available labour and materials between new works and arrears of maintenance, and also between the needs of particular services, in the period immediately after the war involves questions of priorities on which I am unable to make any definite statement at the present time; but I can assure my hon. Friend that the needs of local authorities in respect of their various services are present to my mind and I shall see that full consideration is given to them as soon as workers are available. If he has any particular points in mind, perhaps he will communicate with me.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will instruct the Registrar General to issue certificates containing a man's or woman's date of birth only and nothing else.

I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the replies I gave to him and my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington South (Sir W. Davison) on 19th and 27th January. I have no power to give instructions such as he has in mind.

Arising out of that reply, will the Minister receive a deputation on this issue, so that we may state clearly what our views are and get his co-operation?

I have already said I shall be happy to consider such a proposition.

Does the Minister mean that legislation is required, or that it lies in the power of some other Department to change the form?

I mean that legislation would be required.

asked the Minister of Health, whether the camps which in October, 1939, were then in process of construction have all been completed; and what present use is being made of each one of them.

The camps, 31 in number, were completed by 1940. One of these is occupied by an evacuated orphanage, the others, with one exception, are occupied by local education authorities of vulnerable areas for the accommodation of school children together with the necessary teachers and staff.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that there has been an increasing attendance during the last two years at these camps, and will he, together with the President of the Board of Education, have a further look into this matter?

I will certainly examine that, but it hardly arises on this question.

asked the Minister of health if he will consider making an order whereby the date of birth shall be noted on the National Identity Card.

If as I infer, my hon. and gallant Friend has in mind the entry upon each Identity Card of a date of birth which will afford proof of age in substitution for the existing birth certificate arrangements, his object would not be realised by the entry of dates of birth as stated by their holders either at the time of endorsement or on previous occasions. For that purpose the entry upon the Identity Card would need to be based upon the Birth Register; and some reorganisation of a permanent character would be necessary. In this connection, I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to my reply of 27th January to a question by my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington, South (Sir W. Davison), of which I am sending him a copy.

I think my right hon. and learned Friend has misunderstood my purpose. Is he not aware that this seems the only practical method by which police and welfare workers can determine the age of young girls and thereby save them from a lot of mental and physical anxiety?

It is not as easy as my hon. and gallant Friend suggests. As I indicated by my answer, it would involve the tying up of the birth registration and the national registration systems.

Is the Minister aware that a great many people, and particularly women, object to being compelled to disclose their age to anyone likely to see their identity card?

asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning what steps he proposes to take to see that the temporary homes to be built under the Government's two year plan are laid out in accordance with the most advanced principles of town planning and not allowed to add to the existing problems by building more vast housing estates on the outskirts of large cities.

My Ministry will be consulted on layout in every case. I would also remind the hon. and gallant Member that, as stated by my noble Friend the Minister of Works, all temporary houses under the plan referred to will be publicly owned and removed at the end of a limited period.

Can we have an assurance from the Minister that these temporary houses will not be laid out so that we have millions of acres of sprawling suburbs, and is he aware that we have just revised our ideas on density zoning?

Yes, Sir, that will be our idea.

asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning if, in view of the Government's plans on post-war housing, he will make known the Government's views on the location of post-war industry and the question of the ownership of land, compensation and betterment; and whether he is aware that indecision on these subjects will frustrate the plans of the Minister of Works.

I am aware of the importance of these questions, but cannot, at present, add to the answer which I gave to the hon. and gallant Member for Penryn and Falmouth (Major Petherick) on 30th November, 1943, and to earlier answers and to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade on 8th December, 1943. In answer to the last part of the Question, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works and I will co-operate to ensure that the execution of plans is not delayed.

Is the Minister aware that this delay of not months, but years, is giving the impression that the Government are really incapable of producing any plans at all for the purpose of the location of post-war industry?

I cannot be responsible for all the erroneous impressions of the people.

Is not the impression that the Government are delaying their decision on the Uthwatt and Barlow Reports correct, and is it not the case that these reports have been in the hands of the Government for a long time, and is it not desirable that we should have some decision from the Government?

It is not the case that the Government are delaying decisions on these matters. These weighty problems are proceeding towards solution and an announcement will be made on them at the earliest moment.

Is it not a fact that there have been ceaseless representations made to His Majesty's Government and that neither municipalities nor private builders can make any plans whatever at this moment owing to want of decision on the part of the Government?

No, Sir, that is not the case. Some excellent plans have been made and there is plenty to do for everybody.

How can one plan on land which is frozen as a result of the Town and Country Planning Act?

It is not frozen in that sense.

Is it not the case that the inactivity of the Government is responsible for these impressions and that they are not erroneous?

There is no inactivity on the part of His Majesty's Government.

Is not the Minister aware that we are much obliged to him for the new term he has used and that it is at any rate an improvement on "urgent consideration."?

As the Minister has referred to plans, will he satisfy the natural curiosity of hon. Members and tell us something about those plans?

On a suitable occasion, I shall be glad to give the House all information at my disposal, but if hon. Members will consult the planning authorities in their own areas, I think that many of them will be surprised at the amount of excellent work that is being done

asked the Minister of Pensions whether there is any difference in the rates of disability retired pay to officers disabled in the last war and this; and, if so, will be publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT, the different scales.

The standard rate of disability retired pay for 100 per cent. disablement in the war 1914–18 for a lieutenant, R.N., Army captain, and flight lieutenant was £210 a year. It is now £240. There is also a difference between the rate for a brigadier-general and analogous ranks in the war 1914–18 and that for brigadier and analogous ranks at present, but the ranks of brigadier-general and brigadier are not strictly comparable.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for those two illustrations, may I ask whether he would publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT a complete list of those war pensions for all commissioned ranks; and, further, whether he has received any representations from the Advisory Committee and the ex-Servicemen's organisation asking for an increase in those rates?

I have received no representations from either of those bodies to date. It is not necessary to publish the long list for which the hon. Member asks, because I have given the only differences.

What is the difference between "brigadier" and "brigadier-general" except the omission of the word "general"?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can make any statement about the resumption of recruitment to the permanent Civil Service during the reconstruction period.

I will, with the permission of the House, make a statement at the end of Questions.

The Government have been considering what measures should be taken for recruitment to the Civil Service in the immediate post-war period. During the war there has been very little recruitment to the established Service. All open competitive examinations have been suspended. There are at present 215,000 established civil servants (plus a further 70,000 absent on war service) and many of these are already at or over normal retiring age. The number of established civil servants in April, 1939, was 290,000. As a result, the number of serving established civil servants will be a good deal smaller at the end of the war than it was at the beginning. Whatever form our economy may take after the war, it seems reasonably certain that the complexity of administration will, at any rate for many years, be greater than it was before the war. The established Civil Service will need the substantial reinforcement of a steady flow of young recruits of good educational standards, who will be available to help with the many and difficult problems of reconstruction, and to provide an experienced body of qualified staff in the years to come. After the last war recruitment by open competitive examinations was not resumed until 1925 for the general Administrative class, 1928 for the general Executive class, and 1927 for the general Clerical class. After this war, however, it should be an immediate objective, in the Government's view, to resume normal competitions, at the earliest possible moment, and thus to recruit properly qualified personnel at ages appropriate to entry on a permanent career.

It is the Government's intention that, after the war, everything possible shall be done to assist the establishment in careers of those who have missed their normal opportunity of achieving this as a result of the war, or of their own war service. It appears to the Government only equitable, so far as the Civil Service is concerned, that the main source of recruits in the immediate post-war period should be from those who would have had an opportunity of competing for the Service in the normal course, but for the interruption of the war. For the Administrative, Executive and Clerical classes, this will mean, generally speaking, those who have gone into some form of war service straight from school or university. Recruitment by open competition from this source under conditions which will allow for the interruption of the candidates' education, and concurrent resumption of the normal competitions, will serve very well the main object of securing a steady flow of appropriately qualified personnel during the reconstruction period. Every care must be taken, in making the necessary administrative arrangements, to ensure that men and women who have been with the Forces during the war should be at no disadvantage in competing with civilians, either as a result of the particular form their war service may have taken, or because their demobilisation may, in some cases, take place rather late. Any arrangements made for recruitment to the Civil Service immediately after the war should ensure that generous treatment is given to suitable candidates from the Forces. During the whole of the reconstruction period, the work of the Civil Service must be carried on, probably under very severe pressure. The Government consider that arrangements will be needed for the retention of some of the existing temporary staff who are too old to be eligible for the open competitions, particularly staff who have shown special aptitude for the work of administration and who have acquired valuable experience of the Government service. No temporary staff should, however, be retained in the Civil Service unless their quality is sufficiently high and their retention plainly in the public interest.

Questions of the kind referred to in this statement are appropriate for discussion with Civil Service staff representatives through the Whitley machinery. The Government have, accordingly, referred the matter to the National Whitley Council, with a request that specific proposals, which it is hoped can be agreed between the two Sides of the Council, should be submitted to them as soon as possible. Further statements will be made in due course as proposals are submitted by the Council and considered by the Government. Statements will also be made on other matters affecting the post-war Civil Service. As regards recruitment to the Foreign Service a statement will be made shortly by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.

Will there be an opportunity of debating this matter, having regard to the fact that some of us hold the view that the Civil Service could be run with a much smaller personnel and should be completely overhauled?

I should have thought that many opportunities present themselves in the ordinary course.

Has the Committee on the training of civil servants yet presented its report, and cannot the organisation for the training of civil servants be made use of to help those in the temporary Civil Service to obtain positions on the permanent establishment?

The second part of the question must wait until the report is available. I have not got it yet but I expect to have it very soon.

May I ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he is aware that the question of recruitment for the Fighting Services is as urgent as for the Civil Service, and are the Government taking steps to consider that matter in the same way that they are apparently doing for the recruitment of the Civil Service?

That question should be put on the Paper.

Are any steps being taken now in conjunction with the Service Ministers to give opportunities to those who are now serving to qualify for the examinations which will take place after the war?

Any question about educational facilities available to serving men should be addressed to the appropriate Ministers. I can only say that in the provisions for recruitment for the Civil Service every care will be taken to see that due allowance is made for the interruption of normal education.

Will my right hon. Friend undertake that a definite preference will be given to men and women who have served in the Armed Forces?

I do not think I need add anything, on that point, to the statement I have made. I have made it quite clear that special consideration will be given, subject to suitability, to candidates who have been in the Fighting Services.

When men and women are recruited for the Civil Service after the war, will my right hon. Friend see that equal pay is given for equal work?

That is a different question.

Will a statement in more or less similar terms be made with regard to recruitment and training for the local government service?

No, that is a separate matter altogether.

Will there be reconsideration of the retiring age of civil servants, which was fixed 60 or 70 years ago?

That has nothing to do with the question.

As educational facilities are now available to prisoners of war in Germany, will my right hon. Friend not overlook giving such opportunities to these men as there are?

That certainly will not be overlooked.

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the allowances paid, respectively, to boys directed to work in the coalmines, to civil servants, to evacuated teachers, to mobile workers, to evacuated children and to soldiers quartered on civilians.

I regret that in the short time available it has not been possible to obtain from the various Departments concerned the information asked for. I am having the necessary inquiries made and will communicate with my hon. Friend.

Will the hon. Gentleman circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT as other Members are interested?

If hon. Members wish.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether it is proposed to take over the whole production of utility suits in shops, warehouses and factories; what the approximate cost will be to the country; how he proposes to dispose of them and to whom.

No, Sir. Most of the suits at present in stock will be needed to meet public demand in the next few months, and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply intends to buy a limited quantity for the relief of occupied Europe.

Would my right hon. and gallant Friend ask his colleagues in the Government to set an example to other Members of the community by wearing these utility suits?

asked the Prime Minister if he will publish a list of the Members of this House in respect of whom a certificate has been issued under the House of Commons Disqualification Act, 1941, showing the date of the certificate, the office held and any salary, expenses or other emolument paid; whether the service is at home or abroad and similar information in respect of any Members whose certificate has been withdrawn.

Yes, Sir; but as the reply involves a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In view of the desire of the House to have this information, can the right hon. Gentleman not read it to the House now?

It is very long.