asked the Minister of Labour the names of the individual trade unions and employers' associations with which arrangements have, so far, been made for the continuation, in the post-war period, of joint production committees or similar machinery of collaboration.

:As I have already explained to my hon. Friend, this is a matter of day to day collaboration between employers and their workpeople, and I am, therefore, not in a position to give him the information for which he asks.

:Would it not be an example if the right hon. Gentleman could give specific instances of where agreement has been reached between individual trade unions and employers' associations?

:It might be an example, but really this is going on every day in almost every works in the country, and I cannot go to the trouble of recording every incident.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of threatened wage reductions in some branches of industry; and what steps he proposes to take to maintain wages at their present level, providing the people are agreeable to work.

:No, Sir. As regards the second part of the Question, it is hoped that joint voluntary machinery reinforced where necessary by action taken under the Wages Councils Act will provide adequate means of regulating wages.

:Will the right hon. Gentleman make it known to employers of labour that it would be disastrous to repeat the policy of the 1930's, and to adopt deflation?

:I have already done so in many speeches.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will place on sale the booklet on "Demobilisation and Resettlement" recently issued to members of the Forces.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a limited number of copies of the recently issued pamphlet on resettlement available for relatives of men serving in His Majesty's Forces.

:Yes, Sir. Copies of the booklet will be placed on sale by H.M. Stationery Office and booksellers as soon as the requirements of Service Departments have been met.

:Will the right hon. Gentleman see that the supply of this excellent booklet is sufficient for the wives and other members of serving men's families, as they are very interested?

:Yes, Sir, I will do that.

asked the Minister of Labour why the operation of the scheme of re-settlement grants is to be withheld until after the close of hostilities; and whether he will consider the establishment of this scheme forthwith in the interests of the many men already released from the forces.

:The Government decided on grounds of equity that this scheme should not be brought into general operation before releases from the Forces begin after the end of the war in Europe. I think, however, that special considerations arise in respect of disabled persons discharged from the Forces, and it has been decided that applications from them will be accepted in advance of the general operation of the scheme.

:While thanking the Minister for that reply and the concession that has been made, may I press him to consider a further concession, having regard to the fact that a number of men previously in small businesses and now released from the Forces are trying to re-establish themselves in business, but are hampered by having to wait for further facilities?

:I have to keep a general equity in these things. The man who is lucky enough to come out first may have a certain advantage; but I will look into the matter.

:Will my right hon. Friend grant facilities for men who get the £150 to take advice about the businesses they propose to buy?

:I have pleaded with organisations all over the country, chambers of commerce and everybody else, that these men should be able to get advice on whether there are proper opportunities for trade or whether they are being overcharged. Every facility exists to give them proper advice before they spend their money.

asked the Minister of Labour how many copies of the booklet, "Release and Resettlement," have been issued; and if all Services have had them.

:Copies of the booklet are being distributed as rapidly as they can be printed. The first supplies have already been dispatched to the Far East and priority in distribution is being given to other more distant theatres of war. Air transport is being used where this is practicable. Distribution in the Services will be completed in the course of the next few weeks.

:Is the Minister aware that the issue of this booklet is a splendid service not only to ex-Servicemen but to Members of Parliament who are likely to be asked many of the questions with which it deals?

:Is this booklet being issued to already discharged members of the Forces who have many pressing problems?

:They can get the booklet quite easily. If there is any difficulty, and my hon. Friend will let me know, I shall be glad to put it right.

:Will the Minister include some reference in future editions of the booklet to the issue of clothing coupons and to agricultural resettlement?

:We are issuing special leaflets on special subjects to special trades, and I do not think it is wise to add to the general booklet anything that applies to particular industries.

:Is this valuable booklet available to the general public?

:I have already answered that question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the Government will now bring the conscription of women to an end.

:There is now no compulsory call-up of women to the Forces but the demands still made upon me for the filling of vacancies for war work and other employment of great importance to the life of the community make it necessary for women to be required to take, or to continue in, employment. Relaxations in the current rules will continue to be made whenever the situation permits.

:Will the Minister not ease up in the case of women in the forties, in view of the very special contribution they have made to the war effort and the very great strain on them?

:We are easing up wherever possible, but we do not limit relaxation to age alone.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will now consent to the release from directed employment of all young women who indicate their intention of training for teaching or nursing.

:All young women who indicate their intention of training for teaching or nursing are released, under present instructions, for such training unless their services in their existing employment are essential to the war effort.

:Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are women who are comparatively unemployed now? Could not their particular attention be drawn to the jobs they can do in this direction?

:We are constantly making every possible endeavour to get people into these professions. If people are unemployed, it is really their own fault if they do not enter them. We are always trying.

asked the Minister of Labour how and when after the end of the war in Europe will it be possible for youths, who have been directed to the mines under the ballot scheme, to obtain their release, if they desire it.

:I cannot at the moment add to my reply of 7th December to the hon. Member for North Tottenham (Mr. R. C. Morrison) when I stated that these youths will not be retained compulsorily in the mines beyond the date at which they would have been released from the Forces if they had been called up.

:Can the Minister say whether his answer means that when these youths are released from the mines, they will no longer be liable for military service?

:I would like notice of that question.

:Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether as soon as we get the boys back from the Forces, these youths will no longer be needed in the mines?

:I would not be too sure about that. I must emphasise that the Minister of Fuel and Power is responsible; the House should be aware that there is a grave danger of coal shortage at the end of this year, and I have to have regard to that in coming to my decisions regarding these boys and the return of the men from the Forces.

asked the Minister of Labour the progress which has been made towards reopening the four mills which have been released from the operation of the Concentration Order in the cotton industry.

:These mills have reopened and in all cases output of yarn is expected by the end of this month. Progress in providing the additional workpeople required is generally satisfactory.

:Can my right hon. Friend say whether he is using all the resources at his disposal to overcome the serious labour difficulties in the clothing industry at the present time, and whether other mills can be reopened shortly?

:The latter part of the supplementary question is a matter for the Board of Trade. I am doing all I can. I have instituted experimental mills and all kinds of schemes to induce people to come back to the cotton industry in order that the trade may be restored.

asked the Minister of Labour what are the restrictions at present in force on the publication of advertisements for men and women possessing qualifications in various branches of science and technology; and whether, in view of the difficulties which they create for those who want to engage such staff, he will arrange for their amendment at an early opportunity.

:The restrictions in question are to be found mainly in the Undertakings (Restriction on Engagement) Order, as regards men, and in the Control of Engagement Orders, as regards women. As stated in the White Paper on the reallocation of man-power between civilian employments (Cmd. 6568), it is proposed after the end of the war in Europe to replace existing control of engagement provisions by a single Control of Engagement Order. The details of this Order are still under consideration, but it will clearly be necessary to have control over advertisements addressed to persons within the scope of the Order.

:Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that an employer is seriously handicapped when he cannot get highly qualified technical men in order to develop post-war trade?

:I realise the difficulty, but I would ask the House to remember that, in the early days of the war, industry was nearly brought to chaos by firms competing with each other with advertisements, the total result of which did not increase the national effort by a single unit of production.

:Is the Minister aware that advertisements of this description, when submitted to his Department for approval, are generally returned from his Department with the remark that the paper which is going to accept the advertisements will know more about it than his Department?

:I should have thought that was evidence of great discretion in my Department.

:When will these restrictions be removed? At the termination of the war in Europe?

:I could not say that. I must emphasise that this is one war, until we have finished with the Japs.

:Is not the indiscriminate scramble in advertisements of the early days of the war a good example of the free enterprise which hon. Members opposite wish to keep?

asked the Minister of Labour what steps are being taken in South Wales to develop the Building Apprenticeship and Training Scheme; if any such training centres are to be established in South Wales; and, if so, in what town.

:I am proposing to open training centres in the Cardiff and Swansea districts for the training of men in the building trades. As regards the scheme for training apprentices on special building works it is for the local joint apprenticeship committee of the building industry to initiate such a scheme in its own locality. I understand from my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works that no application has yet been received from any joint apprenticeship committee in South Wales, but a number of joint apprenticeship committees are known to be giving preliminary consideration to the scheme.

:While thanking my right hon. Friend for that answer, may I ask whether he can allocate one man in his regional office to take charge of developments under the scheme, so that advantage can be taken of this excellent plan?

:I would like notice of that question. I cannot say offhand.

:Has the right hon. Gentleman carried out negotiations with the trade unions concerned, in order to ensure that there will not be any difficulty when training is complete in men entering a trade union?

:Yes, Sir. There is no difficulty at all about apprentices. What is needed in Wales is a little initiative on the part of the local committees. As to the training of men back from the Forces, I have entered into an agreement with the trade unions that they shall be admitted, as full craftsmen, after intensive training of 20 months.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, having regard to the improved war situation and with a view to hastening the repair of war damaged houses and the building of new ones, he will cause the early release from the Armed Forces of all officers and men who were formerly engaged in the building industry.

:It would not be possible to release all officers and men formerly employed in the building industry without seriously impairing the efficiency of the Armed Forces for the tasks they have still to perform. As many as can now be spared have already been released for bomb damage repairs and the housing programme, and the maximum number of building workers consistent with the principles of the Release Scheme will be included in the Class B releases after the end of the European war.

:In view of the terrible housing situation in many places, will the Minister be able to keep this suggestion specially in mind, or something similar?

:Is not my right hon. Friend aware that very few members of the Forces will be released under Class B?

:Yes; but I do not think that ought to be exaggerated. The main purpose of the Government is to get as many as possible out of Class A, and we must not whittle away the rights of the men in Class A for any other class.

asked the Minister of Labour how many recommendations he has now received from the Catering Wages Commission; and whether they have all been accepted.

:Recommendations have been received and wages boards have been established in the following cases:

:Would the right hon. Gentleman state how many of these recommendations are likely to come before the House?

:When wages orders are made they are laid on the Table.

asked the Minister of Labour how many women were unemployed at the latest date for which statistics are available; and of these how many had been unemployed for three months or more.

:At 15th January, 1945, the latest date for which figures are available, there were 22,327 women aged 18 and over registered at Employment Exchanges in Great Britain as wholly unemployed, 1,470 registered as temporarily suspended from work on the understanding that they were shortly to return to their former employment, and 48 registered as unemployed casual workers. The number Wholly unemployed is exclusive of 353 women who had been classified by interviewing panels as unsuitable for normal full-time employment. Statistics are not available showing the numbers on the registers who had been unemployed for three months or more.

:In view of the considerable number of women who are unemployed, if the Minister cannot find work for them within, say, three months, will he issue a direction that these women should be allowed to take such work as they desire without being directed to it?

:We do that now.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will explain the reason for the transfer of all the civil servants connected personally with the Hankey Committee on Further Education and Training.

:Presumably the hon. Member is referring to the four administrative officers who were associated with the work of the Hankey Committee. Of these, one has retired from the Ministry of Labour and has accepted a temporary post with the Ministry of National Insurance, one has received an appointment in a higher grade with U.N.R.R.A. and one has been promoted and transferred to other work. The fourth, who was a temporary officer, has accepted an appointment offered to him in the Ministry of Education.

:May I ask whether the Government are really enthusiastic about that report or whether it went further than they liked?

:I think it was so successful that we transferred the staff immediately.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will take steps to see that employers of labour make arrangements for paid holidays on the same conditions as that decided with respect to Government factories and Government service on the cessation of hostilities with Germany.

:This is a matter for industrial agreement, and I regret I cannot add to the announcement which I made on 4th April last.

asked the Minister of Education if he will take steps to withdraw the Regulation by which ministers of religion, though possessing the necessary qualifications, are at present excluded from holding teaching posts in grant-aided schools.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will explain the reason for the new draft Regulation 23; and whether he is prepared to modify it to permit the employment of Clerks in Holy Orders, or other ministers of religion, in grammar schools.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware of the distress and indignation caused by the new draft Regulation 23; and if he intends to withdraw or modify it.

:Under the code of regulations for public elementary schools no person who is a clerk in holy orders or the regular minister of a congregation has been eligible for employment as a full-time teacher. No similar provision has appeared in the regulations for secondary schools or other schools of higher education. In drafting the primary and secondary schools regulations my right hon. Friend has been actuated by a desire to maintain the existing position. Since, however, the regulation in its present form has given rise to some misunderstanding, he proposes to modify it so as to make it clear, as was the intention of the original draft, that clerks in holy orders or the regular ministers of any religious denomination may continue to be employed in grammar schools or other schools of a type in which their employment has hitherto been permitted. In the case of other schools my right hon. Friend proposes to provide that where the special circumstances of the case justify such a course, approval shall be given to their employment, on the application to the Minister of the persons with whom the appointment rests.

:Is there any reason why, in this enlightened age, there should be an act of intolerance in regard to a minister of religion teaching in any type of school? Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the complete withdrawal of this out-of-date practice?

:I hope the hon. Gentleman will await the modified regulation before he makes up his mind as to its exact purport. It will be open to objection, or it can be prayed against in this House, after it has been drafted. I am bound to tell the hon. Member that there have been representations made to the Minister in the contrary sense to that implied in these Questions.

:Could my right hon. Friend say whether the revised regulation, which is about to be issued, will permit of the transfer of a clerk in holy orders from the staff of one grammar school to the staff of another, without the special permission of the Minister?

:That, as I hope I have made clear in the answer, is the intention.

:Will my right hon. Friend represent to the Minister of Education that the religious tolerance which exists in this country at the moment, is the consequence of denominations not pressing their claims too hard, and that there may be difficulties if that course is pursued too much?

:I will see that my right hon. Friend's attention is drawn to my hon. Friend's observation.

:In view of the supposed equality now for all secondary schools, would the right hon. Gentleman say how he would justify this being allowed in a grammar school and not in a county secondary school?

:I think if my hon. Friend will study the answer he will find that it will be possible, under the revised regulation, for one of these gentlemen to teach in a county secondary school.

asked the Minister of Education if he will arrange for the scheme of special one-year courses to be extended to include uncertificated teachers with less than five years' service.

:No, Sir. My right hon. Friend is satisfied that those uncertificated teachers must take a course of not less than two years.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will modify the new draft Regulation 20 so as to permit grammar schools which have a school session on Saturday mornings to have a longer period of holiday than the present Regulation authorises.

:In grammar schools which meet on Saturday morning it is not uncommon to allow an afternoon during the remainder of the week for recreation, and in such cases I do not think a case can be established for differential treatment in the length of school terms. My right hon. Friend would be reluctant so to frame the draft Regulations as to encourage an increased number of working periods during the week with consequent extra pressure on the pupils.

:Is there any reason why there should be a wooden uniformity in the matter of holidays all over the country? Why cannot there be discretion for secondary and grammar schools to have a different holiday where it suits the needs of the school?

:There is no wooden Regulation as to the length of holidays, but we have to ensure that in return for the Ministry's grant the pupils attend for a certain number of days during the year.

:It will mean a shortening of the existing holidays in many cases, will it not?

:As a teacher I have sometimes found it very difficult to defend the length of some holidays that have been granted to certain schools.

asked the Minister of Education whether he can state the number of emergency training colleges for teachers which have been opened and the number of trainees attending them.

:Arrangements are being made to open three emergency training colleges in the course of next month, and the number of students accommodated will be about 350.

asked the Minister of Education how many applications have been received for the Teachers' Emergency Training Scheme.

:The number of applications received up to 17th April was 8,034.

:In view of these two answers—8,000 and 350—would my right hon. Friend press for the opening of more emergency colleges as soon as possible?

:Three will be opened during the current month, we are hoping to open an additional number at the beginning of next term and we are taking every step we possibly can to ensure that applicants shall be accommodated, as soon as they are released from national service.

:How many houses have been taken for this purpose, to be used as colleges?

:I would ask the hon. Lady to put that question down.

asked the Minister of Education what estimated number of teachers for elementary and secondary schools will be required for each of the next five years; what is the present shortage; how many have been released from the Forces for teaching or training; how many are now being trained; and whether he has conferred with the Minister of Labour and the Services Ministers to secure some release of suitable teachers or students for training immediately, and demobilisation of others directly the war against Germany is finished.

:It is estimated that 70,000 teachers, in addition to the number at present on the staff of primary and secondary schools, will be required to implement the reforms in the Education Act as well as making good the wastage due to the war. It is not possible to allocate this estimate between each of the next five years. It has not so far been possible to release men or women from the Services either for teaching or to train for teaching, except for a very small number of persons released to take up posts of special importance and responsibility. The number of students now attending Training Colleges is about 14,000, representing an annual output of about 6,000.

There is no question of releasing men and women from the Forces immediately, but the whole question of releases during the interim period between the defeat of Germany and the defeat of Japan is under consideration by the Government in connection with the proposals for re-allocation of man-power during that period outlined in the White Paper of last September.

:Will my right hon. Friend draw particular attention to what the Minister of Labour announced to-day, that in fact those who wish to leave industry for teaching can do so?

:I would not agree to put that interpretation on what my right hon. Friend said, but I hope that the answer he gave will receive wide publicity.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware of the propaganda about sending teachers to re-educate Germany, and will he tell these propagandists that we are ourselves 70,000 teachers short?

:I do not think that comes within my Department.

:What proportion of the 6,000 coming out of the training colleges are women, and what proportion are men?

:Perhaps my hon. Friend would put that question down.

asked the Minister of Health if he can now make a full statement on the current experiments in artifi- cial insemination of women; and if any births have resulted or are expected shortly to result therefrom.

:So far as my information goes, this operation is being performed with donated semen on a small scale in this country in cases where at the joint request of the husband and wife the responsible medical practitioner has satisfied himself that it is desirable. I do not think that the subject as a whole is one which can be satisfactorily discussed within the limits of a Parliamentary Question and answer, but I think it right to say that I am advised that it would be a breach of the law to register as legitimate a birth which occurred as a result of this operation when the husband is not in fact the father of the child.

:Since the right hon. and learned Gentleman says, I think quite rightly, that this matter cannot be fully discussed by question and answer, would he consider, in view of the interest shown by hon. Members, consulting with the Leader of the House to see whether it is possible to find time to discuss this very important social issue?

:Will the Minister bring in legislation to make this disgusting habit illegal?

:No, Sir. There are many aspects of this matter, and I am quite certain that on some of them, at any rate, there would be no general agreement. I am pursuing the inquiry into the whole matter.

:In the interests of common decency in this country, will the Minister make representations to the War Cabinet that this whole experimental scheme be brought to a conclusion?

:Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman undertake to maintain a scientific calm in this matter, and not be stampeded by those who approach it simply from an emotional angle?

:Well done.

asked the Minister of Health if he will issue a White Paper on the new proposals for a National Health Service, which he has put before the British Medical Association and which they have circulated to their members, so that Members of this House and the public may also have an opportunity to consider the Government's revised scheme.

:I would draw my hon. Friend's attention to the answer which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Fulham West (Dr. Summerskill) on 12th April, in which I made it clear that there is as yet neither any revised scheme put forward by the Government on this subject nor any proposals of which publication, in a White Paper or otherwise, would be appropriate.

:Does my right hon. and learned Friend not agree that he has informed the British Medical Association that if these new proposals are acceptable to their members he is prepared to recommend their acceptance by the Government? Is he really treating this House fairly, when the British Medical Association has been able to circularise these proposals not only to their 60,000 members, but also to all other members of the medical profession?

:I think I made the position quite clear in the answers I gave last week.

:Is it entirely proper for the Minister of Health to negotiate with an outside body legislation wholly different from that which the House itself has discussed in the form of a White Paper; and when does he propose to tell us what the proposals are that he has discussed with the British Medical Association?

:I cannot tell the House what proposals there are, when there are as yet no proposals.

:Can the Minister reconcile the answer he has given with the answer which he gave me last week, when he did not identify himself with any set of proposals, and in fact evaded the whole question, although he knows that he has put these proposals to the profession, and has undertaken, if they commend them, to sponsor them to the Cabinet?

:If the hon. Lady desires to challenge every statement that I made last week and the statement that I have made to-day, I cannot deal with the matter further.

:Since when has it been considered undemocratic for a Minister of the Crown, or a private Member, to discuss important issues with private bodies outside this House, including trade unions?

:Is it not true that this body is a trade union, like any other?

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the divergence of opinion about the proposals in the health White Paper and in view of the fact that many doctors, nurses and patients are on active service, he will postpone the introduction of the Bill based on the health White Paper until after the General Election.

:No, Sir. I am not prepared to give any undertaking to that effect. I explained the procedure which is being followed, in my answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Fulham, West (Dr. Summerskill) on 12th April.

:Does my right hon. and learned Friend realise that sledgehammer methods will not pay in a democracy?

:There are no sledgehammer methods being employed.

:Are we to understand, from the answer, that the Minister intends to introduce a Bill, based on the White Paper, before the General Election?

:The original White Paper?

:I cannot say the date, and I cannot say what the eventual form of the Government's proposals will be.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent penicillin is now procurable at the direction of a medical practitioner; and what facilities exist for its immediate availability when it is prescribed.

:The scheme for the wider distribution of penicillin, to which I referred in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for London University (Sir E. Graham-Little) on 8th March, is now in operation. Supplies of penicillin have been issued through the distributing centres to nearly all the larger hospitals in the country, and may be obtained, on request, by any hospital which has a suit able case. I regret that supplies do not yet permit of the unrestricted distribution of penicillin through chemists and the usual trade channels, and a practitioner who requires penicillin for a patient must therefore obtain it from a hospital, and not through the issue of a prescription to the patient.

:Has a doctor, prescribing penicillin for an urgent case, when time is of vital importance, to wait now for somebody in a hospital to say whether he is right or not? If so, it may be too late for the penicillin to be of any use. In view of the great importance of penicillin, can my right hon. and learned Friend make some arrangement to cut out the delay which must be involved in that course?

:We are doing that to the greatest possible extent, but it would really be no use a doctor's following the usual procedure of issuing a prescription to his patient when penicillin can, in fact, be obtained only from a hospital.

asked the Minister of Health how many of the 45 medical superintendents at present employed in L.C.C. hospitals, excluding mental hospitals, have served on the senior staffs of the London voluntary hospitals to which a medical school is attached.

:As indicated in my reply to a somewhat similar question by my hon. Friend on 12th April, I am making inquiries into this matter. As soon as I receive the desired particulars from the London County Council I will inform my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make any statement on the provision of postgraduate training for medical officers when they are released from the Forces after the end of hostilities in Europe.

:Yes, Sir. The Government desire to give every possible opportunity to medical officers, when they are released from the Forces, to continue the training which was interrupted by their service, and to bring up to date their professional knowledge in those branches of medicine required in civilian practice. The Secretary of State for Scotland and I, after consultation with the universities and other interested bodies, have set on foot a scheme—which we hope medical officers on release will use to the greatest possible extent—for the provision of further training or refresher facilities. An outline of the scheme is being brought to the notice of all serving officers by the Service Departments, and I will, with permission, circulate a brief summary in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the summary:

Men or women who joined the Forces within a year or so of obtaining a medical qualification (described in the Scheme as Class I) will be offered resident salaried posts for periods up to six months at approved hospitals providing suitable clinical material and guidance from senior members of the visiting staffs. Alternative arrangements may be adopted at certain centres in Scotland. There will also be financial assistance for those, such as candidates for a diploma in Public Health, who require facilities for study rather than a salaried post.

Those who had become established in general practice when they joined the Forces (Class II) will be offered refresher courses at hospitals approved by the Universities. These will be either concentrated courses of two weeks' duration or longer courses involving attendance on (say) two afternoons a week. These courses will be free of charge to the practitioner, who will also be able to claim repayment of travelling and subsistence expenses and the cost of engaging a locum tenens where necessary, up to a certain maximum.

For those who were training to become specialists when they joined the Forces or are accepted as suitable for such training on release (Class III) there will be posts of the "registrar" type in hospitals approved by the Universities.

If there is no suitable post available within the normal establishment for an applicant in Class I or III the creation of a post additional to the establishment will be considered.

Officers in the classes mentioned above can obtain further information about the scheme on release, either at their old Universities or Medical Schools or the University nearest where they are living, or at central "clearing houses" in London and Edinburgh.

asked the Minister of Health whether he proposes to take any action for the further development of British spas.

:I am in consultation with my Medical Advisory Committee in regard to future arrangements for the diagnosis and treatment of rheumatic diseases, with which spas are specially concerned, and it would be premature to make any pronouncement on the subject at present.

:Will the Minister consult the Association of British Spas, which met at Cheltenham last week and was addressed by Lord Horder, who pointed out how much behind Continental spas British spas were?

:I am sure that, in the course of the consideration of this matter by members of my medical advisory committee, the association my hon. and gallant Friend has mentioned will be consulted.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that in most parts of London the erection of temporary houses on bombed sites will retard the progress of permanent housing; and if he is prepared to seek the necessary powers to erect temporary houses in selected parts of London parks and open spaces as an emergency measure.

:I am aware of difficulties in parts of London in securing suitable sites for temporary houses. As regards the last part of the Question, this matter is under consideration.

:When is a decision likely to be made; and is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the whole programme of rehousing in temporary dwellings is being held up until a decision is made on this point?

:It is an exaggeration to say that the whole programme is being held up. There is difficulty about a sub- stantial proportion of the sites, but I hope that a decision will be reached at an early date.

rose —

:May I ask a supplementary question?

:We are getting on far too slowly to-day.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the Bevington Bush Hostel, Liverpool, has been unoccupied for some years; that it could be adapted for the housing of about 100 families; and will he, in view of the acute shortage of houses in Liverpool, have this building converted to such a purpose.

:I understand that the Bevington Bush Hostel has not been used as a hostel for some years. The possibility of adapting it for housing purposes has been considered by the Liverpool City Council, who have decided that it could not be economically or satisfactorily adapted, on account of its planning and construction.

asked the Minister of Health for what reason he has failed to supply the borough of Chepping Wycombe with a copy of the document confirming the Compulsory Purchase Order for the advance preparation of housing sites in spite of the fact that he notified his decision to confirm this Order by letter on 16th February and this document, which is required for inserting the necessary advertisement in the local Press, has been asked for repeatedly by telephone, and by letter and the delay is holding up the provision of houses which are urgently required.

:After I had notified the town council of my intention to confirm the Order, questions arose concerning the interest of certain persons in the land to be taken, which did not appear in the Order as submitted by the council. As soon as these matters were settled, the Order was printed and confirmed. Copies were sent to the council on 17th April.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the council of the borough of Weston-super-Mare have received two tenders for the erection of 50 houses, of the traditional brick type, at a price of less than £650 per house; and, in view of this fact, will he encourage authorities likewise to advertise for tenders, and by this means enable the ordinary building trade to make its maximum contribution towards the solution of the urgent problem of housing.

:Yes, Sir. I have already invited local authorities to submit proposals for the construction of permanent houses.

:Will my right hon. and learned Friend draw the attention of the Minister of Works to this contract? I think it shows clearly that if they will use the ordinary methods of divisional building, the building trade can go a long way towards solving the difficulties of housing without the assistance of engineers.

:Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree with the statement in the Question, vouched for by my hon. Friend, that tenders have been received of £650 per house? If so, why have very high prices been mentioned in connection with other houses?

:I have ascertained that these tenders have been made, but I am not acquainted with the full details.

:If the facts are as stated, does not my right hon. and learned Friend agree that they show what a progressive local authority can do?

asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether he is aware of the Godstone scheme for country planning; and if any action will be taken by his Ministry.

:I am not clear to which scheme the Question refers, but I have been informed of a proposal by a company to carry out building development in the Godstone rural district. It is for the local planning authority in the first instance to consider an application for interim development permission, and I understand that an application has now been made and is under consideration.

:As there appears to be some misunderstanding about the nature of the scheme, will my hon. Friend allow me to send him full details?

indicated assent.

asked the Prime Minister if steps will be taken to defer the announcement of VE-Day until the capitals of Norway, Holland and Czechoslovakia have been liberated.

asked the Prime Minister whether General Eisenhower's statement that Victory in Europe Day will not be proclaimed until all important centres of German resistance have been liquidated will be interpreted as meaning that Norway, Denmark, the French Channel and Atlantic ports and the Channel Islands shall be liberated before any such proclamation.

:I have no announcement to make about VE-Day at the present time, except that I deprecate premature speculations upon the subject. The matter is not one we could settle by ourselves.

:If the Prime Minister is unable to give more information at the present time, will he, at least, bear in mind that the idea of celebrating victory while part of our own metropolitan territory is still in enemy occupation, would be repugnant to a great many people?

:As I say, it is not a matter which rests with us, and it requires very careful judgment. I am not going to accept any limiting conditions at the present time. As I have said, we must attune our minds to the feelings of others.

:May I ask the Prime Minister whether the determination of VE-day will be based upon military considerations, that is to say, the efficacy of the occupation of a considerable portion of the country, or will it be based upon political considerations, as to a day which is regarded as suitable to be so fixed?

:As I have said, the matter is to be discussed between the three or four principal Powers engaged, and I should imagine that both military and political considerations—I do not mean our domestic political considerations—will have to enter into that, but I did say that I have no announcement to make about VE-Day, and I must not allow myself to be tempted to go further.

:Will the Prime Minister say whether full consideration will be given to the natural feelings of those men still serving at the front on our behalf?

:I cannot conceive that the great Powers, in coming to their decision, will not have at their disposal the advice of their military men, who, indeed, can tell us better than anyone else, and, certainly, they must be trusted to judge the feelings of our soldiers. I do not know myself why all this talk of VE-Day has got about. No one in His Majesty's Government, and no responsible gentleman in any of the parties, so far as I know, has given any special encouragement to it.

:Is it not rather inconvenient for the House, that General Eisenhower can make a statement on this subject, though the Prime Minister cannot?

:I do not think that that is the way to put it at all. I certainly have the liberty to make a statement on the subject if I think it right, but I think it would be very much better to consult with the principal Powers with whom we are working, and, of course, the Commander-in-Chief is one who has a perfect right to express his views on the military situation. I may add that Field-Marshal Alexander has also telegraphed in the sense of the statement made by General Eisenhower.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will take steps to ensure that the Allies retain the captured prison-camp of Buchenwald intact as a memorial of German methods.

:As I have a short statement to make on this subject at the end of Questions, I will, if the hon. Member will permit me, use his Question as the occasion for making it.

Later —

:No words can express the horror which is felt by His Majesty's Government and their principal Allies at the proofs of these frightful crimes now daily coming into view. I do not at present, however, wish to commit myself to any special policy such as the suggestion made by my hon. Friend.

I have this morning received an informal message from General Eisenhower saying that the new discoveries, particularly at Weimar, far surpass anything previously exposed. He invites me to send a body of Members of Parliament at once to his Headquarters in order that they may themselves have ocular and firsthand proof of these atrocities.

The matter is of urgency, as of course it is not possible to arrest the processes of decay in many cases. In view of this urgency, I have come to the conclusion that eight Members of this House and two Members of the House of Lords should form a Parliamentary Delegation, and should travel out at once to the Supreme Headquarters, where General Eisenhower will make all the necessary arrangements for their inspection of the scenes, whether in American or British sectors. Members who volunteer for this extremely unpleasant but none the less necessary duty, should give their names to their Party Whips, in order that a body representative of all Parties may be selected by the usual methods during this afternoon. I should propose that they start to-morrow.

I hope that the House will approve of the somewhat rapid decision I have taken.

:May I say that the House, I am quite certain, fully approves and admires the invitation given by General Eisenhower, and the decision of the Prime Minister, and I should think it would be the wish of all Members of this House that a Parliamentary delegation should, as early as possible, go to the scenes of these terrible crimes?

:I know it is difficult for the Prime Minister to add to what he said just now, because of the absence of many details, but a great deal of anxiety is caused to families in this country sometimes by the feeling that the camps referred to are camps in which British and American prisoners of war are confined. Ought it not to be made clear that these camps were originally formed to deal with the political enemies of Hitler and the Nazis, and the chief victims were the Communists, Socialists, and trade unionists who have suffered for many years from these tortures? Will the Prime Minister, therefore, be good enough to ask the authorities on the spot whether they will make lists of the survivors, so that we may be able to give them such succour as we can if some of our comrades have survived these fearful ordeals?

:I am sure that everything is done to collect nominal lists of persons who have suffered loss in this way, but I will have the point brought to the notice of the United States authorities through whatever are the proper channels.

:Could the Prime Minister arrange that those Members of the House who feel it possible to volunteer for this horrible duty, should have medical assistance, so that evidence can be collected and such photographs as possible be published, and also that the report of those Members should eventually be published as a State Paper?

:There will be available the medical authorities of the Armies, which comprise the highest talent in either this country or the United States. Photographs are taken with great frequency and photographs will be shown of the Members in these gruesome scenes, showing exactly the thorough nature of the examination to be carried out. I do not think there is any reason to fear that it will not be entirely authoritative and satisfactory. As to publishing the report as a State Paper, I would naturally like to consider that. The object of this visit is to find out the truth, and, if the truth is found out, why should it not be made available?

:Could the Prime Minister give any reassurance to the many people who have relatives as prisoners of war whether the Germans have been observing the Geneva Convention, because these horrors are causing great distress, and are likely to cause great distress, among people who are inclined to feel that their relatives are being treated in this way? Could the right hon. Gentleman give some reassurance to those who are suffering in this way?

:I could not deal with questions in detail in respect of prisoners of war. That would be a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War. But I may say that a solemn warning has been prepared for the German Government or whatever authorities exist in that country, by Soviet Russia, the United States and ourselves, and this, I think, will be issued in a very few days. As it happens, M. Molotov will soon be with the other two Secretaries of State, and I imagine that the issue will follow very speedily after their meeting. This warning is designed to bring home the responsibility not only to the men at the top who are already, on other grounds, war criminals, in many cases, but to the actual people who have done this foul work with their own hands, and to make it clear that no order from a superior authority will be any shield to them.

:Will the Prime Minister see that this Parliamentary Delegation contains at least one hon. Member of this House who, before the war, was associated with organisations such as "The Link," or the Anglo-German Fellowship?

:Instead of asking a lot of supplementary questions, I suggest Members might put in their applications to go on the delegation as there is not much time before departure.

:Arising out of the most important statement the Prime Minister has made with regard to the treatment of criminals, who are themselves responsible, with their own hands, as the right hon. Gentleman said, for these crimes, would he make it clear that the defence of superior orders will not inure to them? Will that be made known to the German people now, as a pronouncement of the Allied Forces?

:I was giving an indication of the declaration signed by the President of the United States, Marshal Stalin and myself which will very likely be issued in a few days. That point is certainly contained in the declaration.

:Will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that the House does not desire to be represented by the usual official delegates?

:I can see some to whom it might do a lot of good.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will arrange for Mr. Russell Lord, an authority on conservation and rural life in America, who is about to visit this country as the guest of his Ministry, to accept invitations to visit provincial centres and address meetings on soil conservation in the U.S.A.

:I understand that Mr. Russell Lord, whom I have been glad to welcome to this country, will be reading a Paper on Soil Conservation in America before the Royal Geographical Society on Monday, 30th April, and I have no doubt that Mr. Lord will be prepared to consider any further invitations that may be addressed to him so far as his time and other engagements permit.

:If an invitation to this gentleman is sent by local branches of the National Farmers Union, would his services be available to address them?