House of Commons
Tuesday, 8th May 1945
The House met at a Quarter past Two o’Clock
Prayers
[Mr Speaker in the Chair]
Private Business
Provisional Order Bills (No Standing Orders applicable)
Mr Speaker laid upon the Table,—Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That in the case of the following Bill, referred on the First Reading thereof, no Standing Orders are applicable, namely:
Marriages Provisional Order Bill.
Bill to be read a Second time To-morrow.
Oral Answers to Questions
Trade and Commerce
Pottery Industry (Concentration Order)
1.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will give an assurance that the pottery industry will be released from the operation of the Concentration Order as soon as possible, in view of the home and world needs; and how many factories have been released up to date.
I am glad to be able to give my hon. Friend the assurance for which he asks, subject to the availability of labour and premises. Owing to the shortage of labour, it has not been possible to re-open any closed factories yet.
British and German Industrialists (Cancelled Agreement)
2.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if it is intended now to cancel the agreement arrived at on 16th March, 1939, between representatives of the Reichsgruppe Industrie of Germany and the Federation of British Industries, at the conference held at Dusseldorf.
This agreement was cancelled by the outbreak of war.
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the great concern about this agreement which exists in the United States; and is he going to take steps to see that a similar agreement is never again made with the same kind of people?
I think that the unconditional surrender of the enemy covers this, as well as a lot of other items.
Russia (Negotiations)
3.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he can now make a full statement on the trade negotiations that have taken place with the Government of the U.S.S.R.; and on the prospects of trade with Russia for British engineering, cotton, pottery and other industries.
These negotiations are not yet concluded and I cannot, therefore, make any further statement at present.
Is it not a fact that similar negotiations are taking place with the United States Government and with the organised industry of the States, and, if so, has not the time arrived when British industry should be put in a similar position?
We are doing our best to make arrangements, as I have said before, for the maximum amount of trade in both directions between ourselves and our Allies the Soviet Union. Discussions on details are still proceeding, and it would be improper for me to make a statement in the middle of the discussions.
Is my right hon. Friend satisfied with the assistance he is being given by other Government Departments with regard to these negotiations?
Is it not the case that there are negotiations proceeding at the moment in order to have large engineering orders from Russia to this country?
Yes, Sir, negotiations are proceeding, as I stated in my reply.
Motor Omnibuses (Measurements)
4.
asked the President of the Board of Trade how many countries not manufacturing themselves are in the market for motor omnibuses; and how many specify measurements which, prevailing in this country, permit our manufacturers to compete on equal terms with producers in other lands.
At least 15 countries, none of which manufacture themselves, are in the market for motor omnibuses. In six of these countries the maximum legal width of vehicles is the same as in the United Kingdom.
Furniture and Household Goods (Ex-Service Personnel)
5.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that long delays occur in the granting of permits to ex-Service men for the purchase of utility furniture and in the issue of priority dockets for household goods occasioned by the fact that other Government Departments, such as the Assistance Board and the Ministry of Fuel and Power are involved in these matters; and whether he will take steps to accelerate the present procedure.
I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Royton (Mr. Sutcliffe) on Wednesday last.
6.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that a letter, sent by the General Secretary of the British Legion, Scotland, to the Assistance Board, Southport, on 1st March, 1945, and forwarded by the latter Department to the Secretary of the Board of Trade, Neville House, Page Street, London, S.W.1, on 3rd March, seeking information as to the reasons for the delays in granting permits for the purchase of utility furniture and the issue of priority dockets for household goods, has not yet been answered; and will he endeavour to speed up the acknowledgment of important correspondence of this nature.
A reply has now been sent to the letter to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers. I much regret the delay in answering, which was due to the heavy pressure of urgent work and to the very small staff at present available for this purpose.
Hosiery Manufacture, Scotland
7.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if permission has yet been granted a Leicester firm of hosiery manufacturers to open a factory in Lesmahagow; and if he will re-assure Scottish firms closed under the concentration scheme that no start will be permitted until such firms resume their normal operations.
Yes, Sir; I have approved this firm’s proposal to transfer part of its production from Leicester to Lanarkshire. But the firm have been told that, until supplies improve, they cannot expect any increase in their allocation of yarn. As this project is, therefore, for the present only a transfer, not an expansion, it will not injuriously affect concentrated firms.
Bowling Slips
8.
asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will make provision for the manufacture of a larger quantity of bowling slips.
No, Sir; not at present. Rubber is still short, and I must give priority to the production of industrial rubber boots and children’s wellingtons.
Sheets and Blankets (Supplies, Burnley)
9.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that there is a shortage of bedding in the Burnley area and that many returned prisoners of war cannot be supplied at the shops; and will he take steps to increase the supplies.
A recent investigation in Burnley showed that that area is receiving its fair share of the limited supplies of sheets and blankets which can at present be produced. I have arranged that applications for priority dockets from repatriated prisoners of war, whose households are short of bedding, shall be given special consideration.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the shopkeepers say they have nothing like the amount of stock required to meet the priority dockets already in existence?
Very often what the shopkeepers say is at variance with what my investigators report. We have looked into the matter very carefully, and Burnley is getting its fair share, and is not entitled to more.
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the immense amount of bedding which has been used in shelters in London; and if it is cleaned could it not be distributed throughout the country?
V-Day Souvenirs
10.
asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make available souvenirs for schoolchildren to commemorate the celebration of V-Day.
I am not sure what action my hon. Friend wishes me to take, but, if he will give me further particulars of his proposals, I shall be glad to consider them.
New Industries (Licences)
11, 12 and 15.
asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) if his regulations provide for any appeal against a regional decision prohibiting a firm commencing a new industry;
(2) if he has applied the system of licensing shops also to industry;
(3) under what powers his Department has prevented the establishment of a metal industry in Heywood.
In the case referred to by my hon. Friend, a licence was refused by my Department, on the advice of the Regional Board, under the Location of Industry (Restriction) Order, 1942. The applicants have a right of appeal to me.
Children’s Clothing (Sale, Glasgow)
13.
asked the President of the Board of Trade why the large quantities of children’s clothing recently offered for sale by tender by the Glasgow Corporation was not offered to U.N.R.R.A. for distribution in liberated countries in order to obviate to some extent drawing on the already meagre stocks of children’s clothing available for the civilian population of this country.
If my hon. and gallant Friend will let me have particulars of this sale, I shall be glad to look into the matter.
Government Departments
Ministry of National Insurance
16.
asked the Minister of National Insurance whether he is aware that although there are many senior well-qualified officers of his Ministry now serving in Blackpool whose permanent commitments are in London and who are anxious to return home, he has made promotions to his London office from other Departments, thus these actions are casting doubt on the value of the undertaking repeatedly given that senior officers with London commitments would be sympathetically considered for return to London, and whether he will give instructions that no further appointments of this sort will be made so long as there are qualified members of his own staff available to fill the London posts.
It is my policy to make promotions from within the Department so far as qualified staff are available there, whether in senior or in junior ranks, but in the setting up of a new Department there must necessarily be cases in which staff has to be obtained from elsewhere. Since 1st December last, out of a total permanent staff at Blackpool of 981 there have been 99 transfers to London, most of them on hardship grounds; and of my present headquarters staff of 115, excluding typing staff and messengers, 104 have been recruited from the parent Departments responsible for the schemes with which my Ministry is now charged. These figures will, I think, show that effect is being given to the promise of sympathetic consideration to which my hon. Friend refers.
Marriage Bar
51.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the conversations with the staff side in connection with the policy of the abolition of the marriage bar have commenced; and how soon they are likely to be completed.
If my hon. Friend is suggesting that there has been some decision by the Government in favour of a policy of abolishing the marriage bar, I would remind her that all that I have undertaken was to review the position in the light of war experience. As regards consultation with the staff representatives, the official and staff sides of the National Whitley Council have now agreed to appoint a special committee to consider this question. It is expected that the discussions will begin in the very near future, but I am unable to say how soon they will be completed.
Will my right hon. Friend expedite a decision on this question?
I am quite as anxious as the hon. Lady is to see this question put to rest without avoidable delay; but the matter is out of my hands at the moment.
Has this marriage bar got a licence?
Staffs (Reductions)
53.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what Ministries have reduced their personnel this year; and will he give the reduction figures.
As the answer contains a table of figures, I will, with my hon. Friend’s permission, circulate it in the Official Report.
In view of the great reduction in the number of contracts which is being placed, is the Chancellor satisfied that the reduction of personnel has been satisfactory?
I am doing everything I can in the matter, but it is too early to say whether I am satisfied.
Following is the answer:
Taking the latest available figures for Government non-industrial staffs—namely those for 1st January, 1945—and comparing them with the corresponding figures for 1st January, 1944, the undermentioned Departments have shown a reduction in numbers. Part-timers are included, two part-timers being reckoned as the equivalent of one whole-timer. Departments with staffs of less than 2,000 are excluded.
Department. No of staff at 1-1-44. No of staff at 1-1-45. Amount of reduction. Ministry of Supply 66,395 61,584 4,811 Ministry of Food 42,276 38,241 4,035 Ministry of Labour and National Service 39,827 37,096 2,731 Inland Revenue 37,229 36,791 438 Ministry of War Transport 15,955 14,961 994 Postal and Telegraph Censorship Department 10,702 9,861 841 Customs and Excise 9,397 9,171 226 Home Office and Ministry of Home Security 7,413 6,269 1,144 Board of Trade 6,106 6,043 63 Ministry of Food and Power 4,953 4,894 59 Ordnance Survey 2,004 1,887 117
Royal Ordnance Factories
Rest-room Attendants
17.
asked the Minister of National Insurance if he is aware that female workers in the cotton industry who have been found employment as rest-room attendants at Royal Ordnance factories have been informed they are not insurable under the Unemployment Insurance Acts; that they desire to continue as insured contributors; and will he give further consideration to this matter.
As I have informed my hon. Friend, the further inquiries which are being made will take some little time, and until they are completed I am unable to give a definite reply to his Question.
If I repeat the Question a little later, will my right hon. and learned Friend be ready with an answer?
Certainly, Sir.
National Insurance
Proposed Legislation
19.
asked the Minister of National Insurance what progress has been made in drafting the Government’s proposals on National Insurance into legislation form; if it is proposed to introduce one comprehensive Measure dealing with these proposals, or if several Bills are contemplated.
The Family Allowances Bill is now before the House. I anticipate that as regards the remainder of the proposals, at least three separate Bills will be necessary, dealing respectively with industrial injuries, sickness and unemployment benefit and pensions, and national assistance. I hope to introduce the Bill dealing with Industrial Injuries in the very near future. The other Bills are in active preparation but I cannot yet say how soon they will be ready for introduction.
Is it anticipated that the three Measures will be introduced in the life of this Parliament?
It depends on circumstances.
British Army
Tuberculosis Cases (Discharge)
20.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the increasing number of Service personnel who have contracted tuberculosis during their period of service and who, in consequence, are discharged from the Service before they can be admitted to sanatoria, he will make a new regulation whereby such personnel are not penalised by having contracted this disease and will be entitled to the same privileges as other members of the Forces suffering from war disabilities, namely, that they shall not be discharged from the Service until at least eight calendar months have elapsed from the date of their first absence from duty on account of their disability.
I explained the present position in the answer I gave the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr. Driberg) on 20th March, and I am afraid that until civil sanatoria are prepared to accept serving soldiers as patients I cannot do what my hon. Friend wants. This Question is still being pursued.
Is it not a lamentable state of affairs that those gallant men who have been struck down by this disease should not be entitled to the same treatment as other soldiers, especially in view of the fact that they are now treated in the same category as those suffering from self-inflicted wounds?
I do not think it is any good trying to import prejudice in this matter. The position is as I have stated. They could only be treated properly in civil sanatoria, and civil sanatoria are not at present prepared to accept soldiers as patients. The question is still being pursued, but until the particular matter that I mentioned has been settled, I cannot do what my hon. Friend wants.
Why should they suffer financially?
The whole position is that they have to be discharged because civil sanatoria will not take them as military patients. As soon as they are prepared to take them as military patients, they can get exactly the same treatment as other soldiers. It is a question whether civil sanatoria can be persuaded to take them, not as civil patients, but as military patients.
Is it not true that civil sanatoria have a large waiting list, and would it not be as well for the Government to face this fact and build sanatoria?
Would the right hon. Gentleman say why he is not prepared to establish military sanatoria in order to remedy this injustice?
Because, as the hon. Member ought to know as well as most people, hospital accommodation has been arranged in this war in the main under an emergency medical system and not a system of a series of military hospitals.
Will the right hon. Gentleman not use the powers which I am sure he has to rent or requisition a number of beds for this purpose in E.M.S. hospitals so that these men can be treated?
I am given to understand that at present that is not possible. I am doing my best to produce a solution—[An Hon. Member: “Nonsense”]—to this admittedly very serious anomaly, but I have not got a solution yet.
I wish to state that I shall raise this matter at the first opportunity on the Adjournment.
Anti-Tank Obstacles, Surrey (Removal)
21.
asked the Secretary of State for War when he proposes to remove anti-tank obstacles from private land in the neighbourhood of Reigate and Dorking.
I would draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the reply I gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Wing-Commander James) on 27th February last. I understand that it has been found possible to remove a substantial proportion of the tank obstacles in this district, but I cannot at present give any undertaking about the remainder.
In view of the delay by the War Office in moving these various objects, would it not be better to remove Reigate and Dorking from the middle of the anti-tank obstacles?
That would at least have the advantage that it would fall to be done by a civil Ministry.
Repatriated Prisoners of War
22.
asked the Secretary of State for War why it is considered necessary to re-post overseas, after six months in the United Kingdom, escaped and repatriated prisoners of war, in view of the fact that some of these men have been in enemy hands for a number of years and the hardships imposed by their captivity are in no way comparable to ordinary overseas service.
I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave my hon. Friend the Member for London University (Sir E. Graham-Little) on 3rd May.
Is the Minister not aware of the strong feeling against sending these men overseas again? Would he not reconsider the whole question?
A great many things fall to be reconsidered in view of the events of the last 24 hours.
Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that a number of these men are anxious to go overseas?
I have come across cases where people who have been repatriated on medical grounds from German prison camps have pressed and pressed to be allowed to fight against Japan.
Does the right hon. Gentleman accept the implication in the last part of the Question?
I did not deal specifically with that in my answer. It is covered to such extent as is required in the answer to which I referred.
In view of the completely altered man-power situation, cannot the right hon. Gentleman give a most categorical assurance that these men shall never be sent overseas again?
Hear, hear.
I certainly cannot give any such categorical assurance. A very complicated process of re-arranging our man-power will have to be undergone in the next few months, and there is not the slightest doubt that one feature of it, as has been the case during the last few years, is that there is not enough for everything.
68.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether repatriated prisoners of war, who have been forced to march long distances in Germany, and whose feet have been injured thereby, are on their arrival at reception units in this country provided with special footwear in lieu of Army boots.
Yes, Sir, if the medical authorities think they need them.
Will my right hon. Friend circulate that direction to all officers in reception units and see that it is carried out?
I have not the slightest doubt that it has already been done.
But is the right hon. Gentleman aware if it is being carried
out?
Will the Minister give special attention to the case of the South African prisoners, who have no coupons for shoes, and whose Comforts Fund hasvery insufficient supplies of shoes?
I will look into the question. The War Office is not responsible for administering South Africans, but I will look into it to see if it is a matter on which I can approach the High Commissioner.
Requisitioned Premises
23.
asked the Secretary of State for War how many private dwelling houses in Bristol have been requisitioned for use by his Department; how many have been released; and how many remain empty at the present time.
One hundred and eighty-five dwelling houses are at present requisitioned and 117 are empty. Thirty-four have been released or transferred to other Departments in the last three months, and a further 109 will be so dealt with shortly. As I have said on a number of occasions, I am doing my utmost to release small dwelling houses and schools as soon as possible.
69.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware of the inability of the local education authority for Nottinghamshire to co-operate with the building and metal box industries in providing part-time education facilities owing to the military occupation of the Rosemary Street school in Mansfield; and will he arrange for the de-requisition of the premises.
As my hon. Friend is aware, a review of properties requisitioned by the War Office is at present being held. As soon as it is completed I hope it will be possible to release a large proportion of the small dwelling houses, schools and training colleges. But until the Army’s requirements have been set against its holdings it is impossible to say whether a particular building can be released or not.
Overseas Service (Leave)
28.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that there are complaints made about local leave from the men who are serving in Burma, India and other places outside this country; and will he make a statement to clear up this matter.
The only complaints of substance came from India and Burma. In his statement of 18th April the Prime Minister outlined the steps which are in hand to remove the causes of the complaints by increasing the amount of local leave and improving conditions at leave centres. But the operational and geographical difficulties to which I referred in the reply I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Denbigh (Sir H. Morris-Jones) on 13th February cannot be eliminated altogether.
Compassionate Leave Application
29.
asked the Secretary of State for War why the application of Private S. W. Jenkins, A.C.C., No. 1697215, 2nd A.A.D.R.A., R.A.T.D. (N.A.) British North African Forces, who has served two years in Italy and whose home is at Knodishall, Suffolk, for compassionate posting to this country was refused; why he was not given compassionate leave, in view of the warning to the War Office in September, 1943, that his wife was seriously ill; and whether Private Jenkins has now been given leave, in view of the fact that his wife has since died leaving four young children in the care of their grandmother, aged 77 years.
In September, 1943, the circumstances were not sufficiently exceptional and urgent to justify posting the soldier home on account of his wife’s illness. When the matter was again considered in December, 1944, it was found that the children were well cared for, although there was some deterioration in Mrs. Jenkins’s condition. The case was, therefore, reported to the overseas command with whom the decision for sending the man home rests. I have now heard that the man has been reverted to the United Kingdom. He should be home any day now—if he has not already arrived. I am aware that hitherto commanders overseas have been forced to adopt a strict attitude in the matter of compassionate postings and I am as sorry as they no doubt are that this should have been so. I hope that we are now moving into times when easier standards will be possible.
In view of the responsibility of the War Office for what has happened in this tragic case, will the right hon. Gentleman see that this soldier is given extended compassionate leave on his return to this country, in order to take care of his children who are all under 11 years of age?
When soldiers are posted home from an overseas theatre it is a posting to the home establishment—it is not compassionate leave, it is repatriation—and those cases are automatically considered for compassionate leave in this country, and from time to time there are extensions of that compassionate leave.
Rifle Range, Shray Hill
31.
asked the Secretary of State for War why his Department refuses to sanction the use of the Shray Hill range for the Waters Upton Rifle Club, in spite of the fact that it was approved for .303 and miniature rifle practice three years ago in connection with the Home Guard.
This range will not be needed by the Army after the war, but there is no objection to its use now. I understand that the rifle club will be so informed shortly.
Discharged Men (Hospital Payments)
43 and 44.
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) why No. 5194174 Private K. Connor, wounded on 24th January, 1944, discharged from the Army on 21st September, 1944, whilst still in hospital, with a pension of £2, has been required to pay 19s. a week to the hospital ever since;
(2) why No. 5573659 Private F. T. Hillier, who has been in hospital since 12th October, 1943, paralysed in both legs, on being discharged from the Army on 12th May, 1944, whilst still in hospital, with a pension of £2, has been required to pay 19s. a week to the hospital ever since.
I have been asked to reply. On discharge from the Army these men, who are unmarried, were granted a treatment allowance equivalent to pension at the total disablement rate. They are not making any payment to the hospital, but, in accordance with the requirements of the Royal Warrant, a deduction is made from the treatment allowance in respect of the home savings incidental to their maintenance in the hospital. They are eligible for either National Health Insurance benefit or a supplement from this Ministry which, with the net treatment allowance, will ensure a minimum cash income of 30s. a week whilst they are in hospital.
Yes, but is the Minister aware that these boys are both making contributions of 14s. a week to their mothers, and that they have not been out of hospital, except for a few weeks in one instance, since they were wounded? Why are they discharged before they are cured? Why should there be any deductions from their money and their pensions?
There must come a time when they have to be discharged and handed over to my Department. A very long and generous period is allowed.
Generous?
Yes, Sir. Hon. Members must realise that, and there must be some finality about when they have to be handed over to my Department. They can only be dealt with in accordance with the Regulations laid down by Parliament. It is news to me that there are any dependants, and I will certainly look into it. We can certainly deal with dependants.
I addressed this Question to the Secretary of State for War, who transferred it to the Minister of Pensions. I want to ask the Secretary of State for War why he is conniving at this practice of discharging men from the Army before they are cured from their wounds.
The cases have been dealt with under the Regulations, and strictly in accordance with them. There is no question of conniving at anything but the Regulations.
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that considerable feeling is being aroused throughout the country by a suspicion which people have that the War Office are discharging people before any finality has been achieved in their treatment, merely in order to save money on their allowances? Will he not do something to remove that impression?
I think the hon. Member can do something to remove the impression. There is not a word of truth in it.
Will the right hon. Gentleman represent to the three Service Ministers, for they are all involved, that although it is true that there must come a time when a man has to leave the Service, nevertheless while a man is suffering from disability from his first wound, particularly while he is disfigured and waiting for plastic operations, it is extremely bad and unkind to turn him out of the Service, because his uniform is an explanation of his condition? Will the right hon. Gentleman see that this matter is given sympathetic consideration by the Service Ministers?
My hon. and gallant Friend knows that I am always ready to look into anything that appears to be a case of hardship. I will certainly look into this matter, and consult with my colleagues of the three Service Departments.
May I ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the other two Services do not treat their men as badly as his Department does? Will he do something about it?
The only information I have is that the War Office practice is rather more lenient than the practice of the other two Services. [Hon. Members: “No.”] Anyhow, I am not prepared to accept the unsupported assertions of the hon. Member for Ipswich (Mr. Stokes).
On a point of Order. In view of the most unsatisfactory action and attitude of the Minister, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.
A.T.S. Overseas (Regulations)
65.
asked the Secretary of State for War what are the regulations overseas about other ranks A.T.S. going out socially with officers of His Majesty’s Forces and entering officers’ clubs as their guests.
There is in general no objection to officers and other ranks, including A.T.S. other ranks, associating socially in public, but other ranks are not normally invited to officers’ clubs. I do not know how this general policy is applied in detail in the different conditions in the various commands overseas, but I understand that in the Middle East, where accommodation for officers’ messes is short and some restaurants have had to be used exclusively for officers, permission has been given for A.T.S. other ranks to enter these restaurants as officers’ guests.
Territorial Army Officers (Substantive Promotion)
66.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has considered the re-introduction of substantive promotion to officers of the Territorial Army which was abolished at the outbreak of war, and whether he will make a statement on the matter.
Yes, Sir. It has been decided to introduce substantive promotion of Territorial Army officers and I am circulating details in the Official Report.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that that reply will give considerable satisfaction to the officers concerned?
Following are the details :
Regimental officers will be promoted to the substantive ranks of Lieutenant, Captain, Major and Lieutenant-Colonel after 3 years, 8 years, 17 years and 22 years total service respectively provided they have an aggregate of not less than 12 months’ full time satisfactory service during that time in the same or higher paid acting or temporary rank. In the case of Departmental Officers, substantive promotion will be given after specified periods of service which are already laid down in Territorial Army Regulations, except that these will be modified to the extent that attainment of the equivalent temporary or war substantive rank will be accepted in lieu of the normal promotion qualifications.
Promotion to the rank of Colonel will be by selection within a fixed establishment, the choice being made from officers who have given long and meritorious service in the Territorial Army and who have held paid acting or temporary rank of Colonel or above, are substantive or war substantive Lieutenant-Colonel and have completed an aggregate of three years’ service in appointments carrying the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel or above.
The service to be reckoned for the above will in general be continuous commissioned service in the Territorial Army. Service as Warrant Officer Class 1 will, however, count in full, and service in lower ranks than Warrant Officer Class 1 will count as half, provided that such service in the ranks of the Territorial Army is continuous with commissioned service. Time spent in the Territorial Army Reserve of Officers will not reckon, but broken active list service may be aggregated if the whole of any intervening period has been spent in that Reserve.
Eritrean Police Officers
Arrest
24.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that four Eritrean police officers, Inspector Assefan Agostino, Inspector Gabre Mariam, Inspector Gabre Jesus and Sergeant Takle Guiorguis Tamelso, were arrested by the British Military Administration in Ethiopia in 1944, have since been in prison without charge or trial and have not been allowed to communicate with their families or lawyer; why these officers were arrested; and whether he will order their release from prison, or ensure that they shall be brought to trial and given an opportunity to defend themselves.
Inquiries are being made into these allegations.
German Prisoners of War
Re-education
25.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether German prisoners of war can listen to the B.B.C., read British newspapers or are otherwise being re-educated; or whether they are left entirely to the control of their Nazi officers and German-controlled information.
26.
asked the Secretary of State for War what steps he proposes to take to bring home to German prisoners of war in this country the atrocities in the concentration camps in Germany.
64.
asked the Secretary of State for War what progress has been made in separating Nazis from anti-Nazis in prisoner-of-war camps.
74 and 78.
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) whether he will consider arranging for non-Nazi German prisoners of war being taken to see some of our British democratic institutions either now or before their repatriation; whether lectures on democratic principles and procedure will be given to suitable categories of prisoners both by German-speaking British lecturers and by accredited democratic political refugees now in this country;
(2) why the book “Testament of Youth”, by Vera Brittain, has been forbidden circulation among English-speaking German prisoners of war in this country.
German prisoners of war are given every opportunity to listen to B.B.C. programmes and to read British newspapers. But the book referred to in Question No. 78 was not considered suitable for circulation among German prisoners, and the suggestion in Question No. 74 would, I fear, be impracticable. In my answer to the hon. and learned Member for North Hammersmith (Mr. Pritt) on 24th April, I made it clear that the ardent Nazis are being segregated from the rest. This policy is being actively pursued.
Might I ask why the book referred to is not considered suitable, seeing that the whole purport of it would certainly be to discourage Nazism among the Nazis?
One of the main features of that book, which I myself read some years ago, is that the Allies in the last war committed a great offence towards Germany because the Treaty of Versailles was too severe. I certainly do not think that is a suitable thing to circulate among Nazis.
Hear, hear.
Can the right hon. Gentleman give any assurance that the propaganda of the Nazis among their fellow prisoners has been brought to an end, and that some protection is given to those who are not Nazis?
I do not know whether my hon. Friend means inside the camps.
Inside the camps.
That is being dealt with by segregation, and it is going on as quickly as it can be done.
In view of the considerable interest in this matter, can the right hon. Gentleman give an indication of when he is likely to meet the deputation?
Most of the subjects raised in the request for a deputation concern other Departments as well as my own, and I am in consultation with those other Departments. On one question which concerns me, that of segregation, I gave an assurance which I think, and hope, was a satisfactory answer.
Why is it considered impracticable to take prisoners of war to democratic institutions to encourage them when they go back to Germany?
I do not think it is practicable to take a collection of Nazi
prisoners of war—
Anti-Nazis.
—of German prisoners of war to a local government meeting, or to a meeting of Parliament. I get into enough trouble for taking them about in railway trains. I cannot arrange a series of conducted tours to local government and other institutions.
Rations
30.
asked the Secretary of State for War what action he proposes to take in response to a petition submitted to him by the hon. Member for Wallasey, on behalf of 650 women signatories protesting against excessive rations being issued to German prisoners of war in this country.
77.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been directed to the prosecution at Rugby, on 27th March, 1945, of Harold Cashmore, for obtaining for household consumption articles of food from German prisoners of war at a camp near Rugby; and whether, in view of the fact that these prisoners had enough food to establish a black market of their own, the Government will unilaterally denounce the Geneva Convention and arrange that German prisoners of war in this country receive no more than British subjects.
83.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the policy that non-working prisoners should not get more of nationally rationed foodstuffs than civilians, he will arrange for enemy prisoners of war and Italian collaborators engaged in agricultural work in this country to receive the same scale of such foodstuffs as British agricultural workers and not more as at present.
As I have repeatedly said, non-workers never have received more of the nationally rationed items than civilians in this country. I propose to bring the working prisoners into line, so far as nationally rationed foods are concerned, though it may be necessary to give the workers rather more bread and potatoes than the non-workers.
In view of the reports that we have several million prisoners now in our hands, may I ask how it is proposed to provide those prisoners with food supplies equal to those provided to the troops of the detaining Power?
My hon. Friend is under some misapprehension. Food has not to be equal to that of the troops of the detaining Power, but to that of the depot troops, which means in practice about equal to the civilian ration. It always has been so.
Even on that assumption, how will it be possible, with the position as it is in Europe in regard to food supplies and food production, to go on providing food?
I do not know what the alternative is, except to let them starve. There undoubtedly is going to be a very difficult situation as regards food. All I can say is that we shall just have to do the best we can, including making the best use we can of resources in the occupied countries.
Will not supplies of food in Germany be available for the purpose of feeding the prisoners?
I believe I am right in saying that Germany never was a surplus country as regards food. I am not sure that it was not a deficit country. Certainly, areas to be occupied by the British and Americans are deficit areas. The answer is that it is a matter of great moment that food production in all countries should be promoted as much as possible.
Mineworkers
41.
asked the Secretary of State for War how many German prisoners of war now in Great Britain were miners or worked in German mines.
Just over 1,000.
Period of Retention
70.
asked the Secretary of State for War for how long after the end of the European war German prisoners will be retained in the hands of the Allies; and if he will bear in mind the danger of setting free in Germany, in the difficult conditions that may prevail for a considerable period after the end of the war, those prisoners who remain impenitently Nazi in their outlook.
The answer to the first part of the Question is that I do not know, and to the second “Yes, Sir.”
Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he will be able to give an answer to the first part of the Question at a fairly early date?
No, I think it is extremely unlikely. The first part of the Question asks how long after the end of the European war German prisoners will be detained in the hands of the Allies. That Question requires a prophet, not a Minister, to answer it.
Telescopes and Binoculars
Coastal Areas
27.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the ban on the use of telescopes and binoculars in the coastal areas may now be removed.
As far as England is concerned, the ban will be removed forthwith.
Italian Prisoners of War
Incident, Great Billing
34 and 35.
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) whether he can state the name and nationality of the driver of the vehicle which was carrying Italian prisoners of war through Great Billing, Northamptonshire, at 8.30 p.m. on 29th April, 1945, from which two Italians alighted and assaulted a 14-year-old boy; and why the driver stopped his vehicle after passing the 14-year-old boy referred to above;
(2) whether he has any statement to make about an incident which took place on 29th April, 1945, at Great Billing, Northamptonshire, of which he has been informed, in which two Italian prisoners of war assaulted a 14-year-old boy after the latter had given them the V-sign; whether the Italian prisoners involved were non-co-operators; what is the maximum penalty to which these Italians are liable if found guilty of such an assault; and what steps are being taken to see that justice is done.
This incident was reported to the camp commandant by the civil police on 30th April. The driver of the lorry, which belongs to a local firm, was named O’Brien and is said to be a citizen of Eire. I am informed that he heard shouting and stopped to see what was the matter. The two Italian prisoners of war are non-co-operators. They have been charged with common assault and remanded with a view to trial by military court. The maximum sentence for this offence is one year’s imprisonment with or without hard labour.
German Concentration Camp Survivors
Communications
36.
asked the Secretary of State for War whether any facilities exist whereby relatives or friends of survivors in Buchenwald, Belsen, Bergen and other German concentration camps in Allied hands may communicate with such survivors.
The only means of communication at present available are military, and these are overloaded with operational traffic; but field postcards have been issued to the survivors at these camps for them to send to their relatives and friends.
Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that the survivors in those camps have no means of knowing where their relatives are while the relatives resident in this country do sometimes hear that people whom they have lost sight of for some years have survived in the concentration camps, and desire to communicate with them? While appreciating the operational difficulties to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred, may I ask whether he cannot find some way of enabling people who have been separated from their relatives for some years to communicate with them?
I will certainly bear it in mind, but it is not the slightest good making any definite promise or giving any assurance about the matter. It is absolutely impossible to conceive the degree of chaos there is at present on the Continent.
Could not my right hon. Friend explain to the hon. Member that these camps were run by the Nazi Party and not by the Conservative Party?
Polish Prisoners of War
Treatment
37.
asked the Secretary of State for War why prisoners of war from the Polish Army who fought in Poland in 1939 and from the Polish Underground Movement, who fought in Warsaw and were recognised as combatants by the British and Allied Governments, receive different treatment from British and other Allied prisoners of war.
I should be grateful if my Noble and gallant Friend would give me particulars of what he has in mind. Meanwhile I would refer him to the reply given by the Prime Minister to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Cleveland (Commander Bower) on 1st May.
Publications
Germany
38.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he will consider curtailing the German abuse of newspapers and propaganda by reducing the amount of newsprint and the number of political publications in Germany, freeing paper for use in England.
This is, of course, a matter for the Supreme Allied Commander. I am informed that all publications in any area of Germany brought under General Eisenhower’s control are immediately stopped. Army Groups publish a limited number of weekly newspapers in German in the form of information sheets. They carry only Military Government notices, necessary local announcements and world news selected by the Allies. The one exception is a newspaper produced in Aachen, where a German editor and printer operate under licence of Military Government and under strict Allied control.
British and Commonwealth Prisoners of War
39.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he has any information regarding Stalag VIIIB, lately reported to have been moved to Radonitz in Bohemia.
After reaching Radonitz the majority of prisoners of war from this camp were moved to Carlsbad and were then distributed among a number of camps, in South and West Germany.
40.
asked the Secretary of State for War if he can give any further information regarding the movement of prisoner of war camps in Germany or of the liberation of prisoners in these camps.
The total number of British Commonwealth prisoners of war now notified as being in Allied hands is over 90,000 of whom some 53,000 have already reached this country from Western Europe through S.H.A.E.F., and 3,561 have been evacuated through Odessa. I am satisfied that every effort is made by the armies in the field to obtain the names of those released and to transmit them to the United Kingdom, but the very large numbers of United Nations prisoners of war being released, as well as operational demands on communications, makes it inevitable that the names and details of parties of released British prisoners of war are slow in reaching this country. I can assure hon. Members that no effort is spared to evacuate these men as quickly as circumstances permit, and in the meantime to do everything possible for their welfare.
About what number are still unaccounted for?
I would be very grateful if my hon. and gallant Friend would put that question down. I cannot carry the figures in my head.
Do they include people from India and from the Colonies?
Yes, Sir, they are from the British Commonwealth as a whole.
But the British Commonwealth does not include India and the Colonies. [Hon. Members: “Oh.”] It is very important to describe these things accurately.
Have all our men who were prisoners of war in Germany now been liberated?
At the time of the signing of the surrender there were some still in the hands of the Germans, and they have to be got out as quickly as possible. The answer to the hon. Member is that they were not all in our hands, but that some were still actually prisoners at the time of the signing.
Appointment of Mayor
42.
asked the Secretary of State for War why the Nazi chief of police in Bremen has been appointed mayor of that city by the occupation authorities.
I have so far only had a telegraphic report on this. I will read the telegram:
“Nazi Chief of Police in Bremen was not appointed Mayor of that city by the occupational authorities. Explanation is as follows:
During the first 72 hours of occupation of Bremen, Chief of Police General Schroers, in absence of other suitable civil administrative official, was used, by agreement with counter intelligence, as ‘headman’ for conveying orders to German civilians. His final act was to convene a meeting of ortsgruppenleiters at which he himself and all ortsgruppenleiters were arrested.”
Bremen
Victory Celebrations
Armed Forces (Arrangements)
45.
asked the Prime Minister if he will indicate what the arrangements will be for the celebration of VE-Day by men and women serving in the home Forces.
I have been asked to reply. Essential services must, of course, be maintained, but otherwise VE-Day will be a rest day for men and women in the Services. They will be given two further days of leave later subject to instructions which have been issued. As regards celebrations, the military authorities will lend such of their searchlights and other lighting devices as can be spared, and they will co-operate with the local authorities in victory parades on Thanksgiving Sunday.
In view of that pronouncement, will men at present on leave from the B.L.A. have two days added to their leave?
I cannot answer that question.
Aged Persons and Widows
47.
asked the Prime Minister if he is aware of the feeling that Parliament should do something to show our gratitude to the old age pensioners on the coming of VE-Day; and will he consider asking Parliament to grant an extra week’s pension.
18.
asked the Minister of National Insurance whether he will consider giving some special allowance to old age pensioners and widows to celebrate VE-Day with other workers who are to have holidays with pay.
I regret that it would not be practicable to pass the legislation or to make the detailed administrative arrangements that would be necessary for this purpose.
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the intense disappointment there is at the difficulties found in the way of meeting this proposal? Parliament can rise over any difficulty if it so desires. All that would be required to meet what I believe is a just and righteous case would be £2,000,000, and I hope my right hon. and learned Friend will consider it.
Will the Minister not get the Prime Minister seriously to consider this matter? These are the old veterans of industry, and no allowances are made for them. The workers all over the country are to be paid for two days’ holiday, while old age pensioners are getting nothing.
Speech.
Hearts of stone.
Defence Regulations
46.
asked the Prime Minister if he can assure the House that all Defence Regulations curtailing the usual liberties of the subject and of the Press will be rendered inoperative before the General Election takes place.
My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary will make a Statement on this subject to-morrow.
Parliamentary Candidates
Service Posting
48.
asked the Prime Minister in relation to the opportunity given to adopted candidates serving overseas for reversion to home establishment, whether the application for this reversion has to be made by the candidate or by the political organisation to which he belongs; whether it has to be addressed to the commanding officer of the unit concerned or to the relevant Service Ministry and, if the latter, to which Department of that Ministry; whether it has to be made in any particular form; whether it has to be supported by any particular information or evidence; and if he will give an assurance that such applications will be handled with the utmost expedition.
The answers to the hon. Member’s Questions are as follow. Once a candidate has been adopted, the headquarters of his party organisation has to notify the Ministry of Labour, who in turn notify the Service Department concerned. An independent candidate notifies the Ministry of Labour himself. The application has to be in writing supported by written evidence which satisfies the Ministry of Labour of the bona fides of the candidate. As soon as regimental details and whereabouts of the officer or man have been checked, instructions for his return are sent to his Command.
Why is the Ministry of Labour, and not the Service Departments, apparently regarded as the deciding authority in this matter?
The Ministry of Labour is a Department to which, under the arrangements made by His Majesty’s Government, that particular responsibility has been allotted. The arrangement has, at any rate, the advantage that it provides a single channel instead of three channels through which an officer or man concerned should direct his application.
In view of the fact that all this information has already been given to the Ministry of Labour before a Service candidate can announce his
adoption, is it necessary to do that all over again in order to get him back to this country?
No, Sir.
Is it not the case that “still waters run deep”?
Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a real difficulty for serving officers and men who are anxious to become adopted, in taking the necessary steps to get back to this country in order to go through the formalities required before they are adopted, and that as a result, there are a number of officers and men serving overseas who cannot get themselves adopted as candidates?
It is the desire of the Government to make things as easy as possible, but quite obviously it would not be practicable to arrange that any person who said, “I am going to be a candidate” should immediately be brought back to this country from any theatre of war.
Russian Troops, Denmark
Report
49.
asked the Prime Minister whether the dropping of airborne Russian troops on Denmark is part of the Allied strategical plan; or whether this
action was taken by the Russian Government alone.
It was no part of any inter-Allied strategic plan that Russian troops should land in Denmark from the air; and, so far as His Majesty’s Government are aware, no Russian airborne troops have, in fact, been so landed.
Will my right hon. Friend the Acting Deputy-Leader of the House ask his right hon. Friend the Minister of Information how it was that full reports to this effect appeared on the tape machine of the House of Commons?
I suppose the answer is the very simple one that reports to that effect were current in certain quarters.
Liberated Polish Prisoners
Employment
50.
asked the Prime Minister whether, instead of using German and Italian prisoners of war, he will consider, in the interests of assisting our Allies, allowing liberated Polish citizens to volunteer to come to this country to help work on the land or on our rebuilding programme.
I do consider that the employment of prisoners of war has any relevance in this connection, but, as stated on 1st May, in a reply to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Cleveland (Commander Bower), liberated Poles are being cared for and, where possible, given employment by the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces. Other opportunities of making use of the services of qualified persons among liberated Polish citizens on the Continent are being investigated. There is nothing further that I can say at the present time.
National Finance
Purchase Tax (Hospital Equipment)
52.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that Dumbarton County Council recently purchased chairs for the use of tuberculosis patients in their hospitals, and had to pay 100 per cent. Purchase Tax on each item; and will he take steps to have this tax remitted on all hospital equipment.
Domestic furniture is chargeable with Purchase Tax at the rate of 331/3 per cent. of its wholesale value, and not 100 per cent. Hospital furniture of specialised design is not regarded as within this charge. Perhaps my hon. Friend would let me have further particulars of the case to which he refers. As regards the second part of the question, it has always been a principle of the Purchase Tax that there should be no classes of consumers privileged to buy chargeable goods free of tax.
British Wines (Excise Duty)
54.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if H. Stein, trading as Santiago Neuhofer, is assessed to Customs or Excise Duty in respect of the sale of British Wine Port Type and British Pale and Golden Sherry Type.
Yes, Sir. This firm holds an excise licence for the sale of British wines in wholesale quantities, and the liquors are charged with excise duty as British wines.
Why is it that when a recent action took place in Bath, the local Customs and Excise officials said that no excise would be levied on this firm?
I do not know.
Will the right hon. Gentleman look into this matter, because these people have been making packets of money out of a poisonous beverage?
War Damage Contribution
55.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he intends making the property owners pay any more contribution under the War Damage Act, now that the danger of further damage by enemy action has passed.
56.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether in view of the improved international situation he will now terminate the compulsory War Damage insurance contribution.
I would refer my hon. Friends to the Answer given on 19th April, by my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary, to the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Mr. R. Morgan), of which I am sending them copies. The position under the schemes administered by the Board of Trade is receiving further consideration.
Is there any justification, in the present circumstances, for continuing to impose this levy, which is a great burden on industry?
I answered a Question on that subject on 19th April. I pointed out that the charges in respect of war damage under the main scheme are certain to amount to more than twice the amount of the levy under the original Act.
Ex-Servicemen (Income Tax)
57.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in view of the assurances given that the switch-over from the system operating in the Forces to the Pay-as-you-earn system for the collection of Income Tax in the case of ex-officers and other ranks would be made as smooth as possible, he is aware of the long delays which occur in allocating code numbers during which periods inspectors of taxes instruct that tax shall be deducted at the full rate; and if he will, in view of the hardship which is caused, expedite the inquiry into the necessary adjustments.
Special arrangements, which have only recently come into operation, have been made by the Service Departments and the Inland Revenue, with a view to securing that persons entering civil employment from the Forces are allotted their Pay-as-you-earn code numbers with the minimum of delay. I can assure my hon. Friend that the tax officers are fully alive to the need for dealing promptly with these cases and make every effort to get the tax deductions on the proper basis at the earliest moment possible. I am afraid, however, that delays are bound to arise in individual cases while the present severe pressure of work in tax offices continues.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that these delays amount to up to four months, and that they impose considerable financial hardship; and that this question is bound to increase in urgency as more men are demobilised ?
I know; but I would ask my hon. and gallant Friend to realise the very serious problem which exists for the taxation offices, with the present man-power situation.
Why not expedite the whole matter?
Demobilisation Gratuities (Assessment)
58.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in assessing the sums which should be paid by way of gratuity on demobilisation, the amount receivable by the individual in respect of 56 days’ paid leave was taken into account as an element forming part of the gross sum receivable by each person concerned.
While war gratuity and release leave are two important elements in the total scheme of release and resettlement benefits for members of the Forces to be released after the defeat of Germany, they are, none the less, separate arrangements, the settlement of which was governed by different considerations.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that large numbers of men are now leaving the Services, and are not receiving their 56 days’ paid leave? Will he consult with the Service Departments to get the regulations amended?
My hon. and gallant Friend will realise that the object of the 56 days’ leave is to assist released men to get resettled. Those already resettled are in a different position from those who come out when the release begins.
Does that mean that people in hospital will not get the 56 days’ leave?
Companies (Taxation)
59.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that the registration of limited companies, for trading purposes, is sometimes effected for purposes which are contrary to the public interest; and if he will take steps to ensure that concerns trading on a partnership basis, without any limited liability, shall not be penalised by the imposition of taxation which favours the limited company as against the private partnership.
The first part of my hon. Friend’s Question relates to a subject which is not within my province, and should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. I assume that the second part of the Question relates to Surtax liability in respect of income derived from a trade carried on by partners, and I am afraid that I cannot see my way to propose an alteration of the existing law.
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the second part of the Question applies also to the new Income Tax Bill? Will he consider that?
When we come to it.
War Damage Payments
60.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why in assessing value payments under the War Damage Act, 1943, the existence upon the sites of the foundations and cellars of demolished buildings are disregarded; and whether he will take steps to ensure that the expenses of removing such foundations and cellars and of making good the site is taken into account in the assessment of value payments.
Where foundations and cellars or any other remains of demolished buildings contribute to the value of the property for purposes of redevelopment, the War Damage Commission takes such value into account in assessing the value payment. Where these remains depreciate the market value of the site, the Commission has recently been authorised to pay the cost of removing any debris or remains which could not be reasonably incorporated in works of reinstatement or redevelopment. Where any remains either cannot be or are not in fact removed, the depreciation in market value caused by the remains will be taken into account in assessing the value payment.
May I ask my right hon. Friend whether it is now the practice for the War Damage Commission to take into account the excavation of these foundations in determining the value of the site, in whatever form that may arise?
When my hon. and learned Friend has an opportunity of studying my answer more closely, he will realise that that, in fact, is what I have said.
61.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the fact that further claims for war damage are not likely to be received and in view of the hardship arising from the prolonged period during which such claims have had to await settlement and of the fact that in many instances the claimants have in the meantime incurred expense in obtaining alternative accommodation or in paying mortgage interest or ground rents, he will now take steps to increase the rate of interest payable upon damage claims under the War Damage Act, 1943.
Section 10(5) of the War Damage Act, 1943, provides that the rate of interest on a value payment shall be two and a half per cent. and legislation would be needed to change this rate. It corresponds not unfavourably with the rate obtainable on a short term investment in Government securities, and I should not feel justified in introducing amending legislation.
Excess Profits Tax (Post-War Credits)
62.
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether post-war credits of 20 per cent., less the current rate of Income Tax in respect of Excess Profits Tax in general and farming Excess Profits Tax in particular, are repayable after the war in Europe, or whether they are only repayable after the war in the Far East.
I would refer my hon. Friend to the provisions of Section 37 of the Finance Act, 1942, from which he will see that the Excess Profits Tax post-war credit is to be repaid at such date as Parliament may hereafter determine. Further legislation will, therefore, be necessary and I cannot anticipate what it will provide.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the war has now been over for 12 minutes, and that the farmers in my constituency will be getting impatient about their post-war credits?
And also in the Vale of Evesham.
Statutory Rules and Orders
63.
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury how many Statutory Orders and Regulations were issued during the months of February and March; and how many were withdrawn during the same period.
The reply to the first part of the Question is 169. In reply to the second part, the number of Orders repealed, superseded or spent during the same period was 111.
May I ask my right hon. Friend how long it will take us to become free at that rate?
There will be a statement made by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to-morrow which I think will give joy to all concerned, and will certainly result in a heavy deficit on the Government account, so far as the creation of Statutory Orders is concerned.
Holland
Food Situation
67.
asked the Secretary of State for War how the food situation in Holland compares now with the period before we started feeding the Dutch by air and ground, and with the period they were under German occupation.
I know that the need for food is very great in those areas of Holland which were until recently in German occupation. Stocks had been built up to meet this need and considerable quantities of food have been introduced by air and by land in the last few days. I anticipate that shipments to Rotterdam will start almost immediately. But I have too little detailed information to make the statistical comparison asked for by my hon. and gallant Friend. Clearly, it will take a little time for these areas to reach the standards of that part of Holland which had previously been liberated.
Upton Colliery (Closing)
(By Private Notice) asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he has any statement to make regarding the entire closing down of the Upton Colliery, Yorkshire, which employs 2,300 workers and has a production of 13,500 tons per week.
A fire broke out underground at this colliery during the night of 29th April and it has been found necessary to seal off the area affected, which is the most productive part of the pit. The Regional Coal Board on Saturday last unanimously recommended me to agree to the closure of the pit and the transfer of workmen to neighbouring pits with spare face room. It is estimated that at least as great an output of coal will be obtained by such transfer, and, after considering the reports of my advisers and this recommendation, I have agreed to the closure of the pit.
Is the Minister aware that, whilst 6,000 tons will be lost from that part of the pit, 7,500 tons can be produced from the other parts of the pit? Why has the Minister agreed to the closing of the entire pit? Is the Minister also aware that 600 men will have no work whatever, and that work cannot be found for any surface men in Yorkshire? Is it because the colliery company themselves—Messrs. Dorman Long—are going to lose money on this concern? Are we to lose that coal because they are going to lose money ?
As I have mentioned, on the advice which I have received from my advisers, the Regional Board, which represents both sides of the industry, unanimously recommended that we should close the pit. On this question of the transfer of workers, I am told that it would be possible to absorb these men in surrounding pits, because it happens to be in a peculiarly favourable position for that. A meeting is being held to-night of the pit production committee to look into the whole question of the transfer of labour.
Is the Minister going to allow this pit to be closed down for ever, so that this coal will be lost?
I do not think there is any question of that. The only question was how to deal with the situation arising at the moment, and the unanimous recommendation was made by both sides of the industry.
Does the Minister agree that these questions about the technical administration of an industry illustrate the undesirability of Parliament interfering with industry?
Can the Minister inform the House whether the application or suggestion that the pit should close down first came from the owners to the joint coal board?
I could not say that without notice, but the facts are that a fire broke out on 29th April. This district, which is the best district in the whole pit, had to be sealed off, but other districts are equally affected. I am awaiting a full report from the Inspector of Mines on the other districts. In my judgment, the proper thing was done. When my technical officers had given their opinion, both sides considered the matter, and this was the unanimous decision of both sides.
Is not this a perfect illustration of the lack of flexibility in Government control?
Business of the House
May I ask the acting Leader of the House whether, in view of the changed circumstances, he can announce any change of Business for this week?
Yes, Sir, I have to announce a certain re-arrangement of Business.
To-morrow we shall proceed with the Business previously announced.
On Thursday we propose to take the Committee stage of the National Loans Bill and of the Family Allowances Bill.
On Friday, the remaining stages of the National Loans Bill and the Report and Third Reading of the Water Bill.
Is it proposed to take the Family Allowances Bill before the National Loans Bill?
No, Sir; we are taking the National Loans Bill first.
Is there any connection between the two Bills?
In view of the announcement to-day, that the Home Secretary will make a statement to-morrow referring to Defence Regulations and Statutory Orders, may I ask the acting Leader of the House under what procedure that statement will be made? Will it be in reply to a Question?
It will be a Ministerial statement made in the ordinary course, immediately after Questions.
Perhaps my right hon. Friend did not understand the purpose of my previous supplementary question. I understand that on Thursday we are to have the National Loans Bill first, and the Family Allowances Bill second. Does that mean that the Family Allowances Bill is to be financed out of borrowed money and not out of taxation?
There is no connection between the two.
Can my right hon. Friend say when the Committee stage of the Income Tax Bill will be taken?
It will be taken quite soon, I hope, but not this week.
As my right hon. Friend has announced that there is to be some relaxation of Regulations, can he say whether it would be reasonably safe to lift the dim-out in South coast towns?
My hon. and gallant Friend had better await the statement of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to-morrow.
Could not that announcement be made to-night on the first VE-Day, as South coast people would like to know?
Is not water unsuitable business for this week?
Could not the right hon. Gentleman make some announcement to-day about the regulations affecting the five-mile coastal limit, which are still in force?
I cannot give an answer to-day.
Why should the constituents of those of us who represent areas on the South coast be put to this inconvenience? Why cannot we be told?
Perhaps I can help the House. The situation was that the Admiralty were apprehensive, in case the lifting of the regulations on the coastal belt should assist attack by enemy submarines. It is true that enemy submarines have now received orders from the German High Command that they must not attack anything any more. I will get into touch with the Admiralty immediately. I am told that at the end of the last war there were some mistakes. It is merely a matter of clearing up between us and the Admiralty.
I am most anxious to meet the desires of the constituencies referred to by my Noble Friend, but I want to say to the House that my operational experience of the last 24 hours does not permit me at the moment to remove the ban.
When do His Majesty’s Government propose to proceed with the Outlawries Bill?
Answer.
We fully understand the implications of that question, and my hon. and gallant Friend knows as much about that matter as I do.
May I ask my right hon. Friend, in view of the statement which has just been made by the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty, about something unexpected having occurred to prevent the complete removal of the dim-out on the coastal belt, whether it is not desirable to make a statement, perhaps to-morrow, which might clear up this misunderstanding, as the public may be mystified by a statement of that kind?
If there is any misunderstanding it will be possible to decide how best to deal with it between now and to-morrow.
Further to my point on Business, and arising out of the most unsatisfactory answer, may I ask by what Minister of the Crown the Outlawries Bill was, in fact, introduced, and why it is that such an important Measure, the first Measure considered in a new Session, is not on the Order Paper; and further, may I mention the suspicion that this Bill was in fact introduced by one of the Clerks at the Table and, much as we love them, have not things come to a pretty pass if public Bills are to be introduced by the Clerks at the Table without the sanction of the House?
I thought I was in a position to deal with any matter likely to be raised on the spur of the moment by hon. Friends, but my hon. and gallant Friend’s ingenuity has, I must confess, for the moment got the better of me. But I will consult with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, who seems definitely to be involved in any question of clandestine outlawries, and perhaps I shall be able to satisfy my hon. and gallant Friend, either privately or in answer to a Question, if he chooses to put one on the Paper.
I want to ask, as a non-controversial matter of Business, when the Government contemplate introducing or making a statement to the House on their long-term policy for agriculture?
May I ask my right hon. Friend whether it is now proposed to continue the sittings of the judicial body which is inquiring into the amendment of the law of libel?
I cannot see that that has anything to do with the Business this week.
Can the right hon. Gentleman state when the Bill, introduced in another place, dealing with Select Vestries, will be brought to this House?
No, Sir, I do not know.
Message from the Lords
That they have passed a Bill, intituled, “An Act to require the Commercial Gas Company to promote a future Bill.” [Commercial Gas Bill [Lords.]
Also a Bill, intituled, “An Act to require the South Suburban Gas Company to promote a future Bill.” [South Suburban Gas Bill [Lords.]
Also a Bill, intituled, “An Act to provide for the transfer to the Bucks Water Board of the undertaking of the Chiltern Hills Spring Water Company; to extend the limits within which the Board may supply water; and for other purposes.” [Bucks Water Board Bill [Lords.]
And also a Bill, intituled, “An Act to confer further powers upon the Mayor Aldermen and Burgesses of the Borough of South Shields with respect to the running of trolley vehicles; to confer further powers upon the Corporation with respect to their electricity undertaking; to make further provision with regard to street buildings sewers and drains and for the local government and improvement of the borough; and for other purposes.” [South Shields Coroporation Bill [Lords.]
Commercial Gas Bill [Lords]
South Suburban Gas Bill [Lords]
Bucks Water Board Bill [Lords]
South Shields Corporation Bill [Lords]
Read the First time and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills.
Germany (Unconditional Surrender)
Prime Minister’s Announcement
Mr. Speaker, I have just had the duty of making an official statement to the nation and the British Empire and Commonwealth, and I thought it might perhaps be convenient to the House if I repeated it.
Yesterday morning, at 2.41, at General Eisenhower’s headquarters, General Jodl, the representative of the German High Command and of Grand Admiral Doenitz, the designated head of the German State, signed the act of unconditional surrender of all German land, sea and air forces in Europe to the Allied Expeditionary Force, and, simultaneously, to the Soviet High Command. General Bedell Smith, who is the Chief of the Staff to the Allied Expeditionary Force—and not, as I stated in a slip just now, Chief of the Staff to the United States Army—and General François Sevez, signed the document on behalf of the Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force, and General Susloparov signed on behalf of the Russian High Command.
To-day this agreement will be ratified and confirmed at Berlin, where Air Chief Marshal Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force, and General de Lattre de Tassigny, representing the French Republic, will sign on behalf of General Eisenhower, and General Zhukov will sign on behalf of the Soviet High Command. The German representatives will be Field Marshal Keitel, Chief of the High Command, and the Commanders-in-Chief of the German Army, Navy, and Air Forces.
Hostilities will end officially at one minute after midnight to-night, Tuesday, 8th May, but in the interests of saving lives the “ Cease Fire” began yesterday to be sounded all along the fronts, and I should not forget to mention that our dear Channel Islands, the only part of His Majesty’s Dominions that has been in the hands of the German foe, are also to be freed to-day. The Germans are still in places resisting Russian troops, but should they continue to do so after midnight, they will, of course, deprive themselves of the protection of the laws of war and will be attacked from all quarters by the Allied troops. It is not surprising that on such long fronts and in the existing disorder of the enemy the orders of the German High Command should not in every case have been obeyed. This does not, in our opinion, constitute any reason for withholding from the nation the facts communicated to us by General Eisenhower of the unconditional surrender already signed at Rheims, nor should it prevent us from celebrating to-day and to-morrow — Wednesday — as Victory-in-Europe Days, and I think that to-morrow it may be specially desirable for us to emphasise the debt we owe to our Soviet Ally, whose main celebrations will be taking place to-morrow.
The German war, Mr. Speaker, is therefore at an end. After years of intense preparation Germany hurled herself on Poland at the beginning of September, 1939, and in pursuance of our guarantee to Poland, and in common action with the French Republic, Great Britain and the British Empire and Commonwealth of Nations declared war against this foul aggression. After gallant France had been struck down we from this Island and from our united Empire maintained the struggle single handed for a whole year until we were joined by the military might of Soviet Russia and later by the overwhelming power and resources of the United States of America. Finally almost the whole world was combined against the evil-doers, who are now prostrate before us. Sir, our gratitude to our splendid Allies goes forth from all our hearts. We may allow ourselves a brief period of rejoicing, but let us not forget for a moment the toils and efforts that lie ahead. Japan, with all her treachery and greed, remains unsubdued. The injuries she has inflicted upon Great Britain, the United States and other countries and her detestable cruelties call forth justice and retribution. We must now devote all our strength and resources to the completion of our tasks both at home and abroad. Advance Britannia! Long Live the Cause of Freedom! God Save the King!
Sir, that is the message which I have been instructed to deliver to the British Nation and Commonwealth. I have only two or three sentences to add. They will convey to the House my deep gratitude to this House of Commons, which has proved itself the strongest foundation for waging war that has ever been seen in the whole of our long history. We have all of us made our mistakes, but the strength of the Parliamentary institution has been shown to enable it at the same moment to preserve all the title deeds of democracy while waging war in the most stern and protracted form. I wish to give my hearty thanks to men of all Parties, to everyone in every part of the House where they sit, for the way in which the liveliness of Parliamentary institutions has been maintained under the fire of the enemy and for the way in which we have been able to persevere—and we could have persevered much longer if the need had been—till all the objectives which we set before us of the procuring of the unlimited and unconditional surrender of the enemy had been achieved. I recollect well at the end of the last war, more than a quarter of a century ago, that the House, when it heard the long list of the surrender terms, the armistice terms, which had been imposed upon the Germans did not feel inclined for debate or business but desired to offer thanks to Almighty God, to the Great Power which seems to shape and design the fortunes of nations and the destiny of man, and I therefore beg, Sir, with your permission to move,
“That this House do now attend at the Church of St. Margaret, Westminster, to give humble and reverent thanks to Almighty God for our deliverance from the threat of German domination.”
This is a similar Motion to that which was moved in former times.
Question put, and agreed to.
I propose to proceed at once to St. Margaret’s, and I invite the House to follow. I will go first with the Mace; then I invite Privy Councillors to follow in fours, as far as may be in order of precedence, and then the rest of the House will fall in behind. After the Service, the House will return to the Chamber in the same order of procession, and by the same route.
Service of Thanksgiving
Whereupon Mr. Speaker and the Members proceeded to the Church of St. Margaret, Westminster, and attended a Service of Thanksgiving to Almighty God. The Order of Service was as follows:
The Speaker of the House of Commons, preceded by the Serjeant at Arms bearing the Mace, entered the Church in procession by the West door.
The congregation being assembled, there was sung
The National Anthem
Then the Speaker’s Chaplain (Rev. Canon Don, D.D.) moved the congregation to Thanksgiving and Dedication, in the words following:
“Brethren, it is with full hearts that we gather here to-day to give thanks for our deliverance from the hands of our enemies.
As is meet and right, we lift up our hearts in thanksgiving to God, saying, ‘The Lord hath done great things for us whereof we rejoice.’
And as we humbly acknowledge that it is by his over-ruling providence that our cause has prospered, so we thank him for all those through whom this mighty deliverance has been wrought. We thank him for the gift of great leaders: for the valour of our sailors, soldiers and airmen: for the devotion of the men of the Royal Merchant Navy: for the gallantry of those engaged in civil defence: for the courage and endurance of our people throughout our Commonwealth and Empire: and for the self sacrifice of all who have laid down their lives for their friends.
And inasmuch as we know that the fruits of victory have yet to be gathered in, we would here pledge ourselves afresh to our unfinished task, praying God so to fill us with his spirit that we may be worthy instruments in his hand for the fulfilment of his purposes for our country and for mankind.
Let us therefore join in giving glory to God, and in dedicating ourselves to his service in the coming years.”
There was then sung, by the whole congregation, “The Old Hundredth”:
“All people that on earth do dwell,
Sing to the Lord with cheerful voice;
Him serve with mirth, his praise forth tell,
Come ye before him, and rejoice.
O enter then his gates with praise:
Approach with joy his courts unto;
Praise, laud, and bless his name always,
For it is seemly so to do.
For why, the Lord our God is good:
His mercy is for ever sure;
His truth at all times firmly stood,
And shall from age to age endure.
To Father, Son. and Holy Ghost,
The God whom heaven and earth adore,
From men and from the angel-host
Be praise and glory evermore.”
The First Lesson:
Isaiah lii. 7-10
Then, the congregation remaining seated, was sung by the Choir the Metrical version of Psalm 124, to the tune “Old 124th”:
“Now Israel may say, and that truly,
If that the Lord had not our cause maintain’d;
If that the Lord had not our right sustain’d,
When cruel men against us furiously
Rose up in wrath, to make of us their prey;
Then certainly they had devour’d us all,
And swallow’d quick, for ought that we could deem;
Such was their rage, as we might well esteem.
And as fierce floods before them all things drown,
So had they brought our soul to death quite down.
The raging streams, with their proud swelling waves,
Had then our soul o’erwhelmed in the deep.
But bless’d be God, who doth us safely keep,
And hath not giv’n us for a living prey
Unto their teeth, and bloody cruelty.
Ev’n as a bird out of the fowler’s snare
Escapes away, so is our soul set free:
Broke are their nets, and thus escaped we.
Therefore our help is in the Lord’s great name,
Who heaven and earth by his power did frame.”
The Second Lesson:
Matthew vii. 24-27
The Hymn following was then sung, to the tune “Wareham”:
“REJOICE, O land, in God thy might;
His will obey, him serve aright;
For thee the saints uplift their voice:
Fear not, O land, in God rejoice.
Glad shalt thou be, with blessing crowned,
With joy and peace thou shalt abound;
Yea, love with thee shall make his home
Until thou see God’s Kingdom come.
He shall forgive thy sins untold:
Remember thou his love of old;
Walk in his way, his word adore,
And keep his truth for evermore.”
Then the congregation knelt, and joined in saying The General Thanksgiving:
“Almighty God, Father of all mercies, we thine unworthy servants do give thee most humble and hearty thanks for all thy goodness and loving-kindness to us and to all men. We bless thee for our creation, preservation and all the blessings of this life; but above all, for thine inestimable love in the redemption of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ; for the means of grace, and for the hope of glory. And, we beseech thee, give us that due sense of all thy mercies, that our hearts may be unfeignedly thankful, and that we show forth thy praise, not only with our lips, but in our lives; by giving up ourselves to thy service, and by walking before thee in holiness and righteousness all our days; through Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom with thee and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory, world without end. Amen.”
After remembrance had been made of those who had laid down their lives, and particularly the following Members of the House of Commons:
Richard Porritt
Peter Eckersley
Arnold Wilson
John Rathbone
Ronald Cartland
Dudley Joel
James Baldwin-Webb
Patrick Munro
Somerset Maxwell
Allen Bathurst, Lord Apsley
Edward Kellett
John Whiteley
Victor Cazalet
Hubert Duggan
Stuart Russell
Frank Heilgers
George Grey
John Macnamara
Robert Bernays
John Campbell
Rupert Brabner,
the congregation rose, and sang the Hymn following, to the tune “St. Anne”:
“O God, our help in ages past,
Our hope for years to come,
Our shelter from the stormy blast,
And our eternal home;
Under the shadow of thy throne
Thy saints have dwelt secure;
Sufficient is thine arm alone,
And our defence is sure.
Before the hills in order stood,
Or earth received her frame,
From everlasting thou art God,
To endless years the same.
A thousand ages in thy sight
Are like an evening gone,
Short as the watch that ends the night
Before the rising sun.
O God, our help in ages past,
Our hope for years to come.
Be thou our guard while troubles last,
And our eternal home.”
The Blessing
At the conclusion of the Service, The Speaker, preceded by the Serjeant at Arms bearing the Mace, left the Church by the West door.
Whereupon, the bells of St. Margaret's Church were rung, in celebration of Victory.
The House having returned—
Adjournment
Resolved, “That this House do now adjourn.”—[The Prime Minister.]
Adjourned accordingly at Twenty-nine Minutes to Five o’Clock.