asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement as to the groups of industries which are to receive priority in the supply of electricity and coal throughout the coming year.

Until the details of the coal budget have been worked out, I regret that I am not in a position to make a statement about allocations of fuel to particular industries during the coming coal year.

Will the President of the Board of Trade see that those industries where bottle necks exist, such as cop-making and spinning in textiles, get their allocations before those manufacturers who are dependent upon them for their supplies, and will he make plans for long-term power allocations, so that business men can plan production for the next 12 months with some degree of certainty?

That is what we are trying to do.

When dealing with this problem will the Minister make pro vision for Aberdeen and North-East Scot land, and indicate the distribution of the industries and groups of industries which will receive this priority?

We are looking into all these matters.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman really do something for the bottle making industry, which is at present in great difficulty, particularly as that industry has to supply bottles to many other industries?

I can appreciate the difficulty of the bottle making industry.

In view of my right hon. and learned Friend's assurance, can I receive from him the encouragement that in his investigations he will look at the wool textile industry, having regard to their technical and geographical position, who are users of electricity and coal supplies, and who play a very important part in our export trade?

I will certainly try to look at all industries.

Has the President of the Board of Trade received representations from industry to the effect that some industrialists, rather than suffer capricious and unheralded cuts in electricity, would prefer to work to some system which would enable them to plan production?

My feeling is that they would prefer to work upon staggered hours which would overcome that difficulty.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he is taking for providing additional cotton for making up of herring fishing nets.

No representations have been received from herring net manufacturers as to any particular shortage of cotton yarn, and, consequently, no special steps have been taken.

Is the Minister aware that net manufacturers are quoting 12 to 15 months delivery, and, in view of the urgent necessity of producing more food at home, will he look into this matter again, because we must make the best of what we have around our shores?

It has been looked into, but it is not due to a shortage of cotton yarn.

Will the Minister look into the extraordinarily high percentage of exports of herring fishing nets, and will he, in considering this matter, also give attention to the extraordinarily high cost of fishing gear generally, with a view to bringing them within reasonable limits?

I am afraid that is not a matter for me to look into; it is for the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether further supplies of equipment are now available for owners of hotels and similar establishments with priority claims who did not forward applications to his Department before 15th January, 1947; and whether he will add to the statement made by the Secretary to the Department of Overseas Trade on 5th September, 1946.

No, Sir. No further supplies of rationed equipment are immediately available for hotels and similar establishments, but, as my hon. Friend the Secretary for Overseas Trade informed my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich (Lady Noel-Buxton) on 5th December last, the matter is being kept under review.

Is the Minister aware that someone in his Department let it be known to some of the associations connected with these establishments that applications which arrived before 18th January, 1947, would be received and attended to, and that his Department have gone back on that promise; and will he look into that matter in order to help these people who were misled?

I will look into any matter if anyone has been misled.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if, in view of the fact that many overseas buyers will be attending the British Industries Fair in May with the object of placing orders with British manufacturers, he will give an assurance that manufacturers in the wool and cotton-textile manufacturing industry who have adequate production facilities will be given free export allocations up to their capacity.

The allocations for export of wool and cotton manufactures are fixed as high as possible having regard to the essential needs of the home market, and it will not be practicable for further allocations to be granted to manufacturers who accept orders at the Fair. I hope, however, that they will be able to execute substantial business within the limits of the normal export allocations.

Can the Minister give an assurance that firms in regard to export allocation will not be in any less favourable position than they were in 1946?

They will be in the same position, as they were due to the allocation which they have had this year.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what special help he is prepared to give towards the establishment of a light industry in Ludlow, which is needed.

Arrangements have been made for the establishment in Ludlow of two light industries which should cater for the employment needs of the district.

Is the Minister aware that the most important of these two firms is not prepared to start the industry going because of the lack of raw material which can be allocated to it to carry out the work which it has under taken to do; and is he prepared to give an assurance that raw material will be available to this firm, the Wolsey Sheep shearing Company?

I am not aware of the facts as regards that situation. If the hon. and gallant Member will write to me about it, I will do the best I can.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, under present conditions, he will reconsider his Department's decision that a dressing gown is a non-essential garment; and whether he is aware that the coupon value allocated has virtually stopped production of these garments.

In present circumstances, dressing gowns must continue to be regarded as relatively inessential for all but infants and young children; and the fact that current supplies appear to keep pace with demand, although the present low paintings discourage production, suggests that the public takes the same view.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the coupon value which is surrendered by the public is only about half the actual coupon value of the cloth, and that this restriction is tending to produce a bad type of dressing gown, more or less the equivalent of a raincoat?

It is intended to decrease the production of dressing gowns.

Will the Minister give special consideration to small firms whose business has been specially de signed to make these garments, and which are now virtually out of business?

Generally we get complaints about most matters but we have not got any complaints about that.

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) as a result of the recommendation of the Preparatory Committee of the International Trade Conference, from what countries a list has been received asking for reduction of tariffs and preferences; the principal items involved; and the average percentage reduction requested;

(2) as a result of the recommendations of the Preparatory Committee of the International Trade Conference, to what countries a list has been sent asking for reduction of tariffs and preferences; the principal items involved; and the average percentage reduction requested.

A provisional list of requests has been sent by the United Kingdom to each of the countries which took part in the first session of the Preparatory Committee, except Chile, Lebanon and Norway, whose participation in the tariff negotiations was agreed at a later date. Our lists for these countries are consequently still in preparation. So far the only countries from which detailed lists of requests for concessions in the United Kingdom tariff have been received are the United States of America and the Union of South Africa, but we expect to receive others in the near future. It was agreed at the Preparatory Committee that the requests should be confidential and it would not make for a successful negotiation to reply to the latter parts of the two Questions.

While appreciating the point about this being of a confidential nature, may I ask whether the information already published in this country shows that the United States request is the equivalent of the complete abandonment of Imperial Preference, and will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give an assurance that His Majesty's Government will not tolerate this at all?

That is another question altogether.

Will His Majesty's Government issue a statement that they are prepared to have freer trade with any country which will do the same with us?

That also is not this question.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman cannot answer it.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what trade authorities he consulted before the formulation of British proposals for tariff and preference reductions forwarded to other countries in accordance with the recommendation of the Preparatory Committee of the International Trade Conference.

Every effort has been made to ensure that trade bodies are properly consulted about the United Kingdom proposals for tariff and preference reductions forwarded to other countries in accordance with the recommendation of the Preparatory Committee. On 15th April, 1946, a letter was sent by the Board of Trade to the Federation of British Industries, Association of British Chambers of Commerce, National Union of Manufacturers and the Cotton Board asking them to request the trade organisations administered by, or affiliated to, each of these bodies to furnish advice on matters relating to tariffs and preferences. A similar letter was sent to Export Groups, to the more important non-affiliated trade associations and also to the T.U.C. As a result the Board of Trade have received the views of a large section of industry. Close contact has been maintained with the bodies mentioned above and, in addition, special meetings with various branches of industry have been held. Provision has been made for continuing consultation with industry both before and during the negotiations.

Can the President of the Board of Trade say whether as a result of these consultations general agreement has been achieved between the Government and the employers and employees in industry?

I am afraid I cannot.

Can the President of the Board of Trade say that before he sends these recommendations he will arrange some sort of joint conference of the various organisations concerned with which consultations have taken place to get a general opinion before he commits this country?

The special matters to be discussed are so diverse, and many of them refer only to particular industries, that it is doubtful whether such a joint meeting could come to any satisfactory conclusion.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will state his policy in regard to the provision of permits to acquire materials required by exhibitors at trade fairs.

The policy of this matter must depend on the supplies of the material available. In the case of timber and plywood, owing to the very serious shortage, supplies are normally being released only on a very restricted basis for exhibitions of a national character sponsored by the Government, such as the British Industries Fair.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what priority is being given to the supply of materials and labour for the construction of new factories in the North-East development area.

The supply of labour and materials for the construction of new factories in the development areas, including the North-East, is normally given the same priority as supply for housing requirements.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether, in spite of the hold up due to the recent bad weather, there was any serious hold up in the construction of new factories on account of the shortage of steel, bricks and building material?

There has been a hold up owing to the shortage of steel and in some places owing to the shortage of skilled labour, but the factory programme has had the same preference as the housing programme.

Does not the Minister think that the time has come when it is necessary for the development areas to allocate priority one way or the other to housing or to factory development, and so stop the competition between the two rival schemes of development which is contributing much to the hold up of development in certain development areas?

I do not think it has done much to hold up development. The number of materials used in competition and also the number of classes of labour in competition are small, but where there is competition we have to make the best arrangements we can to divide fairly the resources between the two.

Can the President say whether the same priority will be given to factories which are not built in development areas but which have been sponsored by his Department?

As a rule the priority only relates to development areas.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many of the 53 completed factories in the North-East development area are new projects; how many are extensions; and how many men and women are employed in each.

Of the 53 completed factories in the North-Eastern development area six are new projects and 47 are extensions to existing factories. On 31st January, 1947, 306 persons (201 men and 105 women) were employed in the new factories and about 1,600 persons (500 men and 1,100 women) in the new extensions.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman give any indication of the average amount of time taken on these factories from the date of commencement?

It is very difficult with very differing size units to give an average time, but somewhere in the region of nine to 12 months should be taken.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will now make a statement on the results of the British timber buying mission which recently visited North America.

No, Sir, but I hope to do so very shortly.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the purpose of the circulars with regard to the Retail Sales Index, which are now being received by saddlers and retailers of leather goods; and what amount of paper has been used in this connection.

A sample of independent retailers in each of the main non-food trades is being approached and asked to make monthly returns of their total sales; this information is needed to supplement the monthly statistics of retail sales by larger retailers which have been collected through the Bank of England since 1930. A full description of the objects and methods of the scheme was given in the "Board of Trade Journal" for 19th October, 1946. The total amount of paper used for the present approach to traders is under 3½ cwts. This covers specimen forms, explanatory leaflets and the like used for all the traders; no separate figures are available for saddlers and retailers of leather goods.

asked the President of the Board of Trade why exports on British account of £9,500,000 worth of Japanese goods referred to in the last paragraph on page 11 of the Supplementary Estimate (Army) for 1946–47 were not made; or if they were made for the benefit of some other country.

The sum referred to does not relate to specific Japanese exports. It is the amount which it was hoped to obtain in the year 1946–47 towards certain items of Army expenditure from the proceeds of Japanese exports after meeting the cost of essential Japanese imports.

Can the President of the Board of Trade say where the error of £9,500,000 arose and is it on mistakes of this magnitude that Socialist planning is based?

I could not say how the error, if such exists, arose in the Army Estimates. All I am saying is that it was anticipated that some surplus would be available on Japanese exports which would contribute to these things, but a surplus was not available.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman has not answered the second part of the Question. Can he say whether they went to any other country?

The planning of this matter was done by the American Government.

Did the specific exports go to any other country?

There were no specific exports. This was a general balance of Japanese exports over Japanese imports out of which it has hoped that a sum would be allocated for military expenditure by this country, but it did not materialise and so was not allocated.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will allow mothers with babies that are fed by bottle to purchase vacuum flasks without permits and so alleviate the unnecessary inconveniences that many are experiencing through having to prepare hot water through the night.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make vacuum flasks available in the rural districts.

I regret that the supply position for vacuum flasks is still tight and that the permit scheme for one pint "Thermos" flasks cannot yet be dropped. This scheme takes full account of the needs of agricultural and other rural workers as well as those cases in which there are no other facilities for giving babies a hot drink. Vacuum flasks made by other companies, together with other products of the "Thermos" Company can be bought without permits.

Is the Minister satisfied that sufficient encouragement is given to the manufacturers of these flasks in the supply of the necessary raw materials?

Yes, Sir; we are doing everything we can to get manufacture stepped up.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the need for increasing home food production, he will prohibit the export of any types of agricultural machinery for which the demand exceeds supply.

No, Sir. I cannot agree to prohibit exports as suggested.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the bad weather has accentuated the extreme shortage of certain types of agricultural machinery and placed farmers very much behind, and can he not therefore regard it as a special case and make a prohibition for, say, six months to help them out?

It is quite impossible to cancel a large batch of contracts already entered into for supplies going abroad, and in many cases the machinery is needed to produce food which will be imported into this country.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will state the amount and the numbers of imports of furs brought into this country in each quarter of 1946; and the countries from which they were imported.

As the answer involves a special analysis of figures I will, with my hon. Friend's permission, send the particulars to him as soon as they are all ready.

Do not the figures indicate a very large and increasing importation of these articles, and in view of the fact that we have to pay for them in sterling does my right hon. and learned Friend not think that some curtailment is desirable?

I have not the figures yet; when they are available I will send them to the hon. Member.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what types of goods are to be distributed more freely in mining areas; and what is the reason for deciding to distribute these goods generally in the shops and not specifically to the miners.

The arrangements relate to unrationed household goods such as blankets, curtain material, floor covering, wallpaper and various household appliances; to certain Government clothing surpluses, to goods for which miners have a special need, such as bait tins, water bottles and galvanised baths and to certain unrationed foodstuffs, namely, flour confectionery, meat products and oil for fish frying. As regards the last part of the Question, the policy is not to make a distribution to miners as such but to in crease supplies of these goods to the main mining areas, which surveys have shown to be, on the whole, less well supplied than other areas.

May I ask the President whether he would arrange to make in creased supplies available to the main rail way areas as well?

This is a special step which is being taken in order to get more coal for the railways.

Would my right hon. and learned Friend agree that if it is designed to increase coal production there is no guarantee that the supplies will in fact reach the miners' families? If we can afford additional supplies, can it not be done by providing an incentive or reward for the actual people engaged in coal production?

This matter has been very carefully thought out in association with the miners' representatives, and this was considered to be the best way of doing it.

Will the President of the Board of Trade take special care that these extra consumer goods go to the shops in the smaller mining villages—[HON. MEMBERS: "The Co-ops."]—and not to larger provincial towns within the development areas where they might be bought by the general population in stead of by the miners' families?

They will be sent to those areas where there are mining communities and particularly to the shops in those areas, including the Co-operative Wholesale Society.

What does the right hon. and learned Gentleman intend to do for food producers who have an equal claim?

Will my right hon. and learned Friend arrange for supplies of cigarettes to be sent to the miners' canteens, and also for beer to be sent to the mining community?

If there are any deficiencies I will bear that in mind.

asked the Prime Minister whether the East Kent coalfield is to be included in the mining areas that are to be granted concessions in respect of food, houses and consumer goods.

Places in the area of the East Kent coalfield, which have predominantly a mining population, will be treated as regards food, housing and consumer goods under the same arrangements as other mining areas.

Is the Prime Minister aware that when the distribution of surplus demobilisation clothing was made in the mining areas, no distribution was made to East Kent?

Perhaps the hon. Member will put that observation to the President of the Board of Trade.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many 10 cwt. vans have been delivered to United Kingdom purchasers during the period commencing July, 1945, and ending January, 1947; and how many vans of a like nature have been exported.

The number of 10 cwt. commercial vehicles produced for civilian use from July, 1945, to January, 1947, was 21,470 for the home market and 8,675 for export.

Is the Minister aware that this is causing great hardship to our farmers and will he give consideration to allowing a greater number of these vans to be purchased by them?

I am surprised that the number of those that have gone for export is so small.

Surely 8,000-odd is not a small number?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what quantity of petrol was exported from Britain during the quarter ended 31st December, 1946; and to what countries.

As the answer contains a number of figures I will circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

As there are a number of figures it can be assumed that there is a large quantity of petrol being exported, but why should we export any petrol since we are going short in our own country both for industrial and private consumption?

The amount of actual export is not large.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether full requirements of oil will be available for all firms now carrying out coal to oil conversion projects; and can complete availability of supplies be guaranteed for at least three years.

Provision for the fuel oil needed for the conversions so far authorised has been made in the present oil supply programme and similar provision will be made in the programmes for future years.

Does the Minister realise that while there is still doubt as to his being able to supply all the oil required, many manufacturers will hold back from converting their plants to oil?

There is no doubt as to an ample supply of fuel oil being avail- able. There is no difficulty in this connection.

Does that mean that any manufacturer can obtain all the fuel oil he wants if he converts?

That is a generalisation. If manufacturers will apply for the oil they require we will consider their requirements and do our best to meet them.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will now consider taking off the petrol ration, to alleviate the transport difficulties which now exist.

No, Sir.

Does not the Minister consider it is about time that this House and the people were given the real reasons why petrol cannot come off the ration? Will the Minister consider taking it off for six months to assist the people in industry and to make amends for some of the Minister's shortcomings?

I have given the reason several times. I repeat: the reason is that we have not sufficient dollars to import more petrol.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recollect that a week or so ago, in answer to a supplementary question put by myself, he informed the House that both the Dominions of Canada and South Africa were off the ration? Having regard to the fact that he also informed the House some time ago that, were it not for the fact that the Empire had to be treated as a whole as regards petrol supplies, there would be enough for us from sterling sources, why is this country left in an inferior position to other parts of the Empire?

The Union of South Africa have been off the ration for some time because they are able to afford the dollars. As regards other parts of the Empire, they are still on the ration.

Will the Minister prevail upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer to reduce the amount of dollars spent on tobacco, and to make that amount of money available for petrol?

No doubt my right hon. Friend will take note of that observation.

Is the Minister aware that petrol is now off the ration in France? Can they afford dollars?

It does not follow that because petrol is off the ration in France, everybody who wants petrol can get it.

How many civil servents would be if petrol rationing were abolished?

About 1,000.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the number of tons of coal exported from Great Britain to Switzerland in the 12 months preceding 1st February, 1947.

During the 12 months ended 31st January, 1947, exports of coal from the United Kingdom to Switzerland amounted to 24,700 tons, which consisted entirely of inferior unscreened opencast coal and opencast slacks.

Was that done through the European Coal Organisation?

Not necessarily.

Was it? They are the people who are causing all the trouble.

Does the Minister recollect that some time ago he stated in this House that opencast coal was of quite good quality, and in view of the fact that he has now said that the quality of coal going to Switzerland is very bad should he not modify that statement?

I have no reason to modify my opinion. What I referred to in the answer was unscreened opencast coal and opencast slack. The coal varies in quality, as the hon. and gallant Member knows; some is good and same not so good.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will give an assurance that no coal can be exported or supplied to ships as bunker without the licence of his Department; and, in view of the fact that full information and statistics are made available to foreign countries through the European Coal Organisation, it is now possible to publish actual figures of export coal and its destination, together with the figures of bunker coal supplied to ships in the United Kingdom, apart from coal shipped to bunker stations abroad.

No coal, coke or manufactured fuel may be exported from this country as cargo until an export certificate has been granted by my Ministry. Demands for bunkers for foreign-going ships, other than fishing trawlers, are individually controlled in consultation with the Ministry of Transport.

As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the full information given in the Accounts relating to Trade and Navigation of the United Kingdom, published monthly by H.M. Stationery Office. I would remind the hon. Member that, apart from shipments to bunker depots and the Services abroad, out coal exports in 1946 consisted almost entirely of very low qualities such as dross, slurry, unscreened opencast, etc.

Does the right hon. Gentleman suggest that no coal was shipped to France by the European Coal Organisation other than bunker coal? Why is it that we go on shipping coal, so badly wanted in this country, time after time?

The coal shipped to France was quite different from bunker coal. As I have informed the hon. Gentleman frequently, the coal we have actually exported is of very inferior quality.

Why ship it away at all? Why not ship away something we do not want?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power why an average of 14 tons of free coal is allowed to each miner in Northumberland per year and only 5·3 tons is allowed to each miner in North Staffordshire; and how this compares with the ordinary household ration.

In reply to the first part of the Question, I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the reply I gave to his Question on 21st November, 1946. With regard to the second part of the Question, there is no household ration as such, but the maximum annual quantities of solid fuel obtainable without licence in the areas mentioned are 50 cwt. for coal and 40 cwt. for other fuels in the coke and anthracite group. These quantities may, however, be supplemented by licence from the local fuel overseer in respect of premises at which there is special need and no direct comparison with the miners' allowance is possible.

Will the Minister see that miners receive the same ration as other people in view of the fact that in my constituency farm workers with sickness in the house have no coal at all in their cottages and no means even of heating a meal, which causes great hardship? Cannot the miners be treated like every one else so that more coal can be spared throughout the country?

If the hon. and gallant Member has specific instances of persons in his constituency who are without coal perhaps he will let me have details.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how much coal and coke has been allotted during the past three months to seedsmen for the purpose of growing horticultural exhibits.

No additional allocation has been made to seedsmen generally for this purpose but out of the total tonnage of fuel available for horticulture purposes, 80 tons of anthracite and nine tons of coke have been supplied to exhibitors with a view to assisting the growing of plants for export.

Is the Minister aware that his Department recently gave permission to a number of seedsmen to grow flowers for exhibition in this country, and in view of the shortage, will he give an undertaking that this will stop and that he will keep coal for essential purposes?

We supply coal where it is required.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power in view of the fact that the storage capacity for coal of the majority of the electricity power and generating stations in London and the provinces is from six to eight weeks supply, what steps he proposes to take to ensure that this storage capacity is made full use of for a reserve stock of coal before the autumn and winter of 1947.

The Government are fully alive to the need for building up stocks not only at power stations but also at other consumers' works before next winter. The extent to which this will be possible and the measures that will have to be adopted for the purpose are at present under consideration.

But will the right hon. Gentleman do more than put them under consideration? Will he take action swift and sure to enable us to feel confidence that next winter we shall not be in the same jam as we are now?

That depends on a number of factors. We must first of all procure the coal and provide the transport. Having procured the coal and the transport, we must have the generating capacity available.

Then why export it to the European Coal Organisation?

As I have told the hon. Member so often, apparently without effect, we are exporting very little.

Will the right hon. Gentle man say whether it is proposed to continue the process which has been in operation for the last six years of consulting with representatives of the public utilities in this matter?

As the hon. Member is aware, we are in close consultation all the time with the Public Utilities Association, which deals with these matters.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how many cottages are owned by the Coal Board; and are there any occupational or other restrictions of tenure upon their occupants.

I am informed by the National Coal Board that no statistics are yet available as to the number of cottages owned by the Board because collieries have not yet completed their statements of interests. It is usually a condition that a workman who obtains a colliery house must vacate it on the termination of colliery employment.

May I ask the Minister what difference there is between the restrictions of tenure on the houses about which we have been talking, which are State-owned, and those upon what are called tied cottages in the agricultural community?

These cottages were formerly owned by private undertakings, and under the Coal Industry Nationalisation Act large numbers are transferred—and others will be as the result of option and arbitration—to the National Coal Board. At the present moment we cannot say how many have been transferred.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say as a matter of policy whether he proposes to continue the system under which a man retains a cottage so long as he is employed and loses it when he is no longer employed?

That is a matter within the jurisdiction of the National Coal Board—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—but if as a result of the activities of the National Coal Board some acute controversial issue arises affecting the public interest, I may have to intervene.

Is there not, in any case, an essential difference between a house attached to a public undertaking whose tenant has the protection ultimately of this House—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—and a tied cottage in which the tenant is at the mercy of the caprice of the private owner?

Is it not becoming increasingly obvious in the case of the National Coal Board that the employees have no protection from this House?

What is the hon. Member's opinion against the opinion of the National Union of Mineworkers?

Is not the right hon. Gentleman of the opinion that tenants under the National Coal Board will have far greater security than they have had under private colliery undertakings?

That is our expectation.

Are we to understand that there will be one law for State-owned property and another law for privately-owned property?

I should not be surprised, because it is going to be a better one.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what is the estimated decline, since 1939, in the average calorific value of mined coal owing to the greater admixture of stone, slate and dirt.

I regret that the information available is quite insufficient to enable any estimate of the kind desired to be made.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the decline in the calorific value has been substantial, and that therefore the decline in production over a period of years under Government control has in effect been even worse than the figures show?

There has been some decline, due to a number of causes, in the calorific value, but I doubt whether the decline is substantial.

Is it correct that the Minister doubts that there has been any substantial decline?

That is what I said.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware—and will he inform the Opposition accordingly—that the reasons why there is so much slate and so on is that the late owners of the collieries re fused to spend money on machinery for cleaning and separating?

Sir Waldron Smithers.

Is the Minister—

I called the hon. Member for the next Question and not for a supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what method is employed by the Central Electricity Board to check the efficiency of the power stations throughout Great Britain.

Continuous records are kept of the fuel consumed and the units generated at each station controlled by the Central Electricity Board, and from these the thermal efficiencies are calculated.

Is it not a fact that the calorific value of the coal determines in a large measure the efficiency of the power stations? What steps are taken to check the calorific value of the coal delivered to the power stations?

The hon. Member is quite right. The thermal efficiency does affect the actual supply of electricity. We are doing our best to supply the right quality of coal and to have regard to the design of the boiler plant, although it is not always possible to do so.

What checks are taken by the Ministry to determine the calorific value?

On the one hand, we are in the closest association with the National Coal Board for the supply of the coal, and on the other, with the Central Electricity Board who are in touch with the electricity Board, who are in touch with the electricity undertakings.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how many power plants at present in operation are estimated to be taken out of commission during the present year and during the next five years and the output capacity that will be lost.

In 1947 and 1948, 91,000 kilowatts of outworn generating plant, which is over 25 years of age, will be taken out of commission in order to make way for new plant. No removals of plant are at present envisaged for the years 1949–50 and 1951.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is aware that consumers of electricity at times give guarantees to use a minimum specified amount of electricity a year; and whether he will make regulations to safeguard the consumer with regard to these guarantees if the enforced cuts prevent the consumption of this amount.

The purpose of these guarantees is to enable the undertaking to recover from the consumer a proportion of the fixed costs falling upon the undertaking. As I pointed out in my reply to the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Boyd-Carpenter) on 27th February, the present curtailment of supplies cannot result in any substantial reduction in these costs and I cannot agree that undertakings should in present conditions be required to reduce their charges.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what consultations he had with the British Gas Council, as representing the gas industry, before the announcement on 22nd February that the gas supply position was such that the following 48 hours would determine if the Government should extend the electricity restrictions to gas and close down some of the gas works.

The statement referred to was made in the light of the coal supply and transport position on the day in ques- tion. This was not a matter on which the gas industry had any information and they were not, therefore, consulted in advance.

Is it not a fact that the Minister, with his dictatorial powers, rode roughshod over the experts, and that this accentuated the crisis?

I never ride roughshod over anyone.

Oh.

Is the Minister aware that the organised workers in the gas industry strongly dispute that the British Gas Council represents the gas industry, and that they claim that it represents only the employers? If any discussions are to take place: will he consult both sides of the industry?

This was a matter upon which we did not consult anybody associated with the industry. It affected the transport position and the availability of coal.

Is not that side of the House the organised gas industry?