asked the Secretary of State for Air why there is a divergence in the rate of release for chaplains according to their religious denomination; how many Church of England, Roman Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian and United Board chaplains are still in the Service; and when equality will be reached.

Most of the chaplains now in the R.A.F. have voluntarily agreed to defer their release; but the proportion who have done so has varied in each denomination. The rate of release has, therefore, varied too. By June, however, the variations will only be of one group. With the hon. and gallant Member's permission, I will send him in writing the numbers of the chaplains in the Service.

Will the Minister say which is the one group which is going to suffer? Why is it that these smaller denominations have suffered, whereas the Church of England and the Roman Catholics are being given preference?

The release groups in June for the Church of England and Roman Catholics will be 49, Methodists 50, Presbyterian 49, United Board 50, so that, so far as the hon. and gallant Member's supplementary goes, the Church of England and the Roman Catholics are behind.

We are now hearing about June but when I put down the Question I was asking about the last list which was issued by the Air Force, about a fortnight or so ago.

In March the release groups that were reached were: Church of England 46, Roman Catholics 48, Methodists 49, Presbyterian 48. United Board 50, so that the same proposition remains true.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what peacetime conditions in the R.A.F. make necessary a 30 per cent. increase in the medical personnel over wartime strength.

Since the end of the war, the R.A.F. has taken over some hospital work from the Army; it now depends largely on short-term medical officers, who must start by sharing their work with an experienced man. The numbers on each station have decreased, but medical officers are still required. Nevertheless, as I said in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for North Hendon (Mrs. Ayrton Gould) a week ago, I share the anxieties expressed by my hon. Friend, and I propose to consider the matter again in consultation with my right hon. Friends.

Is my right hon. Friend convinced that the conditions which he has described warrant such a heavy increase as 30 per cent. over wartime strength?

I think they more than explain the increase. Whether we ought to have made a greater effort to reduce below the level which we have now reached, is exactly the question which I am going to reconsider with the other Service Ministers.

Is it true that there is a 30 per cent, increase as compared with wartime—

Yes, Sir.

—now that there are no casualties to be considered?

The rate was 2.29 per 1,000 in May, 1945, and it is now 3.03. The Army have gone down a little and the Navy have gone up a little. All are substantially above the agreed rate.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he is aware that young medical officers, who are called up as soon as they are qualified, are posted to isolated camps, where they can get practically no clinical experience, and where there is little work of any kind for them to do; that often they remain in these posts for a year or more; and if he will see that, after the first six months, every medical conscript shall serve the rest of his time under conditions that will provide the necessary experience to enable him to fill a civilian post in his profession efficiently on his release.

I understand that doctors have at least six months' work in hospital after they are qualified and before they are called up for the R.A.F. Many of them are then posted to stations, some of which, no doubt, are isolated; but I would remind my hon. Friend that it is on the stations that most of the medical work of the R.A.F. is done. All general hospitals in the R.A.F., however, organise regular clinical meetings, to which medical officers of surrounding stations are invited. In this way, most of our doctors can improve their knowledge, if they feel that their ordinary work does not give them experience enough.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a number of these young medical officers have been posted to isolated stations for over a year, where they have not yet had half an hour's work a day to do, and in some cases have never had the opportunity of performing any sort of clinical work which could not have been done by a child of 10?

If my hon. Friend will give me particulars of special cases I will see if there is anything I can do.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he is aware of the resentment felt by parents of new recruits who receive seven days' leave at Easter who will require to pay two-thirds of their railway fares to Glasgow and back; that one constituent of the hon. Member for Shettleston has two young boys serving and will require to pay £6 8s. for her sons' fares; and what steps he will take to mitigate this injustice.

All airmen are entitled to regular periods of privilege leave, and when they take this leave they are given a warrant to travel free. During the present Easter period, the normal 48 hour week-end leave has been lengthened by several days, in order to relieve congestion on the trains. Since this is additional to normal privilege leave, no warrant to travel free is granted; but airmen can, in fact, make the double journey at single fare. Airmen can, of course, remain on their stations over Easter, if they so desire.

Is the Minister aware that when young recruits go to a depot it is desirable that they should be able to take advantage of the first opportunity they have of getting over that feeling of home sickness, and that, therefore, they should be able to go on leave without having to ask their parents, who are often in poor circumstances, for the money? Will the Minister take steps to see that in the initial stages free warrants are granted?

It would be difficult for me to depart from the principle which I have explained. It would add heavily to the Exchequer charges for this purpose, and I do not think it could be justified in present circumstances.

In cases like this, would not the right hon. Gentleman consider tacking on the ordinary Easter leave to their quarterly leave, either bringing one forward or delaying the other for a week or two, so that warrants are available?

Yes, Sir, it the airmen desire that, it can be considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Air when the large amount of valuable farming equipment, such as manure drills, Fordson tractors, mole drainers, etc., now deteriorating and rusting in the open at Ingham, Suffolk, will be released for public auction.

Ingham is a collecting depot for surplus and unserviceable equipment from 62 stations of the R.A.F. Much of this equipment passes through the depot with very little delay. The covered storage is not adequate to hold it all, and what is available must, therefore, be used for the machinery and other goods which are of the greatest value and most liable to deteriorate. I am considering whether the storage space could be increased, or whether other improved arrangements could be made. I recently arranged that all farming equipment at Ingham and elsewhere, which is no longer needed by the R.A.F., shall be handed over to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture.

Could the Minister speed up this action, as many of the farm implements have been there for a very long time and will become quite useless unless disposed of rapidly?

Agricultural implements often have to lie in the open, even on farms; but of course I will try to speed it up. Indeed, that is what I have done; that is the effect of the last part of my answer.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the R.A.F. are not using many of these agricultural implements?

I would like notice of that.

asked the Secretary of State for Air the reasons for the delay in derequisitioning Towerfields, Keston, Kent, the release of which was promised in his letter of 31st October; and why, in view of that promise, he has now handed it over to another Government Department.

In his letter of 31st October, my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State informed the hon. Member that the R.A.F. would not require "Towerfields" in future, and that instructions had been given to the G.P.O. to remove the equipment which remained. I regret that this letter did not make it clear that the R.A.F. had no power to release "Towerfields" to Mr. Wright before, in accordance with the general practice, it had been offered for other Government use. The premises are now needed by the Ministry of Health, in order that the Bromley Corporation may rehouse homeless families.

Is the Minister aware that if ordinary citizens behaved in the way in which the Ministries have behaved in this matter they would find themselves in the dock? Is he also aware that an Englishman's home is no longer his castle?

I do not want to pronounce on the last proposition. I greatly regret that the letter was not more explicit on this point. I should have thought that probably the hon. Member himself might have known the general procedure, but I do not think it is to be expected that Mr. Wright should know, and I am sorry that we did not explain it.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if the large quantity of equipment at R.A.F. maintenance units, suitable for civilian use, will now be made available, in view of the shortage existing at the present time of those articles.

The R.A.F. have made every effort to release without delay all surplus equipment which they do not require. Special priority is given to goods that are suitable for domestic use. There have been special difficulties in recent months, but I am glad to assure my hon. Friend that satisfactory progress has been made.

Will the Minister give an assurance that he will have a complete inventory made of all the R.A.F. equipment to which I have referred, because if so he will find that a large number of articles could still be used for the purpose of rebuilding the country at the present time?

My hon. Friend will realise that we must keep certain stocks for the future, and we do not want to go into the market with the civilian public. The making of the inventory for which he asks in itself involves a great deal of labour and delay in release. If we had not to make inventories we could release men much more quickly.

Can the Minister give any indication what progress he considers satisfactory?

In spite of the bad weather and lack of transport, which, for the last few months, greatly retarded matters, we have released very nearly three-quarters of what we shall be able to release, and I hope we shall finish it within this year.

Is it not a fact that equipment inventories are kept up to date in all these stores?

Yes, they are kept up to date. That means that, as things are constantly coming in from stations, a good deal of our labour is used there.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many R.A.F. maintenance units are at present being maintained; and how many it is intended to close down in the immediate future.

The R.A.F. now have 102 maintenance units of various types in the United Kingdom. Five of these units will be closed in the next three months, and 25 more by the end of the year. Ninety-one satellite depots will also be closed this year.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that he does not need that number of R.A.F. maintenance units at the present time, when we are supposed to be in an era of peace; and, in view of the large number of people who could be released for productive industries at the present time, will he take steps to see that the matter is properly investigated?

Certainly; that is constantly under consideration. These maintenance units include many things, such as the depôts for the stores of which we have been speaking, and also keeping serviceable the aircraft in which our men have to fly.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many civilian women are employed by the R.A.F. at Burtonwood, Lancashire, as bat women; how many as cleaners; what are the conditions respecting each class of workers in relation to hours of work, wages per week and overtime for Sundays, and whether the expenses so incurred are included in the Air Estimates.

Fifteen civilian batwomen and four women cleaners are employed by the R.A.F. at Burtonwood. With my hon. Friend's permission, I will send him in writing the details of their hours and wages. Thanks to my hon. Friend's Question, it has been discovered that the women cleaners were not receiving an increase of twopence an hour, which was granted a year ago. Immediate steps have been taken to pay the arrears. The wages of civilian batwomen and cleaners are a charge against the Air Ministry Vote.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see that more productive work is found for some of these 15 batwomen?

I will inquire into that.

Will the Minister say how many officers these 15 batwomen look after?

Yes, if the hon. and gallant Member will put down a Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Air why 147713 Corporal R. Houghton, due for release on 1st March, 1947, has not yet been demobilised.

Corporal Houghton was kept in Italy because he was needed as a witness at a court of inquiry. I am glad to tell my hon. Friend, however, that he left Italy for the United Kingdom two days ago and that he will shortly be released.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that it was necessary to delay the release of this corporal, who was one of 15 witnesses at a court of inquiry into an event which took place on 14th January last?

Yes, Sir. I have inquired into that, and I am satisfied it was necessary to keep them.

On a point of Order. Is not this one of those questions which, in your opinion, Mr. Speaker, might have been better asked by means of a letter to the Minister, rather than by taking up time and wasting money?

That is entirely for the hon. and gallant Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton).

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will make a statement regarding future plans for the aerodrome at West Freugh, Wigtownshire.

I hope that the airfield at West Freugh will be released for agriculture before the end of 1947.

Is the Minister aware that a good deal of consternation has been caused in the district lately at the idea that the aerodrome is to be closed?

I am advised that the units which are now there would be better moved elsewhere, and that the land is first-class agricultural land.

asked the Secretary of State for Air why the fact that a passage will be found for the family of any man who has obtained suitable private accommodation abroad has not been circularised among personnel.

An Air Ministry order of 3rd October, 1945, explained the conditions on which a passage will be found for the families of men who have satisfied the local R.A.F. authority that they have found suitable accommodation. This order received wide publicity in the Service, but if the hon. and gallant Member knows of men who are unaware of its provisions, or who are in doubt about their meaning, I will do my best to clear their doubts away.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will state the estimated annual cost of the two Tudor III aircraft intended for Ministerial use; and the estimated cost involved in chartering special aircraft.

As stated in reply to the Question asked by the hon. Member on 27th February, the annual cost of an aircraft which has not yet been operated in service is largely conjectural and will depend on the extent of utilisation. So far as can be estimated at present, the annual cost of operating and maintaining these aircraft should be about £160,000, including depreciation of about £50,000 and allowances for insurance and interest on capital. It is estimated that the cost involved in chartering current types of four-engined aircraft on the same scale of foreseeable utilisation of the Tudor III's would be at least £190,000.

Will the hon. Gentleman take into account that future Ministers who may occupy that Front Bench may not be so anxious to leave the country as Ministers at the present time?

Over how many years is depreciation spread?

On the basis of five years, I think. I would not be too sure. I will let the hon. Gentleman know later.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation what compensation has been paid for the taking over of railway air services and allied airways.

As my predecessor explained to the House during the passage of the Civil Aviation Bill, offers had been made to the internal airlines of this country which were operating on 1st November, 1945, that they should each be acquired as going concerns at a price to be determined as between a willing buyer and a willing seller. Agreement on a price was subsequently reached with the group of companies comprised under the Associated Airways Joint Committee, and the transfer of the ownership of the undertakings to the British European Airways Corporation took place on 28th February, 1947. The agreed price was £550,000, subject to verification of the liquid assets by a chartered accountant. In the case of the other company, Allied Airways (Gandar Dower), Limited, negotiations with the company are proceeding.

Can the hon. Gentleman say when the negotiations regarding Allied Airways are likely to be completed?

Those negotiations are still proceeding. They have been protracted, but I should not like to give a date when it is contemplated that they will be completed.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation, what steps he proposes to take to ensure that the air crews of private companies are granted the same facilities as those of the public flying corporations with regard to visas for flying through foreign countries.

The question of assistance to private companies in this matter is being investigated, and I shall, if he agrees, communicate with my hon. and gallant Friend as soon as possible.

In view of the importance of this matter to the private operators, would the Parliamentary Secretary consider referring the matter to the International Conference in America or Canada in the near future?

My hon. and gallant Friend is, no doubt, aware that there has been some discussion by P.I.C.A.O. We admit that it was not too satisfactory, but my noble Friend will be only too pleased to arrange for this to be again discussed in an international conference.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation, whether he has any statement to make on the formation of an Anglo-U.S.-Greek company to operate internal and external Greek air services.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation the names of the British, U.S. and Greek companies together forming the new company to operate Greek air lines.

Negotiations have been proceeding for some time between British European Airways Corporation, Trans-World Airlines, the National Bank of Greece and other Greek interests for the formation of a new Greek company to operate air services in and from Greece. It is proposed that the Greek interests shall have a majority holding, the minority holding being shared equally by British European Airways and Trans-World Airlines. Negotiations have reached an advanced stage, but the new company has not yet been formed.

Will the hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that everything will be done to see that the Americans do not take the whole of this market up by supplying their own aircraft, and that we get our fair share?

In actual fact, the company which this agreement will supersede have already on order British aircraft.

Good. Keep it up.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation when it is proposed to lay before Parliament the accounts of the three air corporations.

My noble Friend is anxious that the accounts of the three Corporations should be laid before Parliament at the earliest practicable date. His wishes have been conveyed to the Corporations, and discussions are taking place as to how best to achieve this object.

In view of the delay in presenting these accounts and the apprehensions concerning them, will the Minister do everything possible to see that they are presented at the very earliest opportunity?

Yes, Sir. That is my noble Friend's desire. But I think I ought to say, on behalf of B.O.A.C., that its ramifications are world-wide, that its accountancy and audits have to be undertaken in various parts of the world, and that the collation of these accounts is a difficult task. The last took 11 months, but my noble Friend will not be satisfied until that period is very materially reduced.

Will the hon. Gentleman explain to those concerned that these accounts should be as fully informative as those of the London Passenger Transport Board, and not as uninformative as those of the B.B.C.?

They are required under the Act to conform to the best commercial standards. My noble Friend has already had discussions with the Corporations. I can assure the House that, as a consequence of those discussions, the proposed form of the accounts will be very informative indeed, as compared with normal commercial standards.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that what seems to us a perfectly reasonable request, to have these accounts put before us, is sidetracked every time that we ask it? The accounts may be difficult, but they are no more difficult than those in commercial concerns, and in connection with these and other matters, when we have asked for accounts they have not been informative.

With great respect, I think that that is not according to the facts. If the hon. and gallant Member will look at the accounts which were placed before the House on 20th March in respect of 1945-46, I think he will agree that they are in a very good form and quite informative.

Does the cost of new aircraft appear?

The effect of the cost will. As to the actual details of cost, I am not sure.

In view of the fact that the hon. Gentleman has already informed the House that deficiency payments to date amount to over £15 million, will he not agree that something more detailed in the way of accounts should be presented to the House, in view of what must be world-wide losses, so far as I can see?

A supplementary question couched in that form gives an entirely wrong impression. The deficiency referred to is over a period of years, from 1940 to 1945; and, in fact, has been shown in the accounts given each year. Each one of those accounts has been laid before the House, and it was open to the House to discuss them at that time.

In view of the fact that next year the accounts will cover the transitional period in which there has been heavy expenditure, would the hon. Gentleman ask the Corporations to ensure, particularly, separation out in the expenditure accounts of now recurrent special costs from regularly recurrent costs?

That will be the desire. I think that I ought to point to that certain costs, and the deficiency which has been referred to already, would have been greater had the Corporation borne all the costs that they ought to have borne. There were many costs carried on Air Ministry Votes and Departmental Votes that were clearly appropriate to the operation of air lines.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will state the fees payable to each of the chairmen and members of the Boards of B.O.A.C., B.E.A.C. and B.S.A.A.C., who were serving thereon at 28th January, 1947.

As at 28th January, 1947, the annual salaries of the chairmen of the three Corporations were £7,500 (British Overseas Airways Corporation), £6,500 (British European Airways Corporation), and £6,000 (British South American Airways Corporation). Each of the three deputy chairmen was in receipt of an annual salary of £1,500 for part-time services. Other members, except those who were full-time salaried employees of the Corporations, received annual salaries varying between £1,000 and £1,500 according to their duties. Those member who were full-time employees of the Corporations received no additional remuneration in respect of their offices as members.

Do these gentlemen who serve on these boards receive any expenses in addition to their fees?

Yes, Sir. In the B.O.A. C.,£2,000 per annum; in the B.E.A.C., £1,000; and in the B.S.A.A.C., £500.

Does that refer only to full-time or full-time and part-time men?

No, Sir. These expense allowances are for the chairmen of the corporations.

Are these expenses the maximum allowed, or do they get a bit more when they go abroad?

They are the maximum.

Does the hon. Gentleman admit that the chairman of the B.O.A.C. is worth nine and a half Members of Parliament, or one and nine-tenths Cabinet Ministers?

Are these expenses free of tax?

That, I think, is a question that ought to be addressed to the Treasury. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Quite frankly, I do not know. I will ascertain the fact and let the hon. and gallant Gentleman know.

May I ask what proportion of these highly salaried persons are representative of Scottish interests?

It appears to me from my service in London as a good Cockney, that we are invaded from Scotland for all the good jobs in considerable numbers.

May I have an answer to my question?

The answer is, that I do not know whether any of the gentlemen concerned are of Scottish descent.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will state the names of those members of the Boards of B.O.A.C., B.E.A.C. and B.S.A.A.C. who had contracts with the Boards in respect of executive positions held, the length of such contracts and the amounts payable thereunder in each instance.

Apart from the chairmen, the following members of the three Corporations are employed on a full-time basis otherwise than as members:

• British Overseas Airways Corporation—
• Major J. R. McCrindle, O.B.E., M.C.
• British European Airways Corporation—
• Mr. Gerard d'Erlanger, C.B.E., A.C.A.
• British South American Airways Corporation—Air Vice-Marshal D. C. T. Bennett, C.B., C.B.E., D.S.O.

My noble Friend has no statutory responsibility for the contracts and remuneration attaching to executive posts held by members of the Corporations, but in such cases he has determined, with the consent of the Treasury, that there should be no remuneration in respect of the office of member of the board.

Does my hon. Friend mean to say that he cannot give information of the salaries which these members of the boards are receiving as executives of the Corporations?

That is so, Sir. It is purely a matter of management, and my noble Friend has no authority, statutory or otherwise, in regard to general matters of management. The payment of salaries to executives is entirely a matter of management.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary mean that his noble Friend does not know, or that his noble Friend does know but will not say?

I mean what I say. My noble Friend does not know.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation, whether he has any statement to make on the resignation of the chairman of B.O.A.C.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether it is intended to appoint a new chairman of B.O.A.C.; and when he expects to be in a position to make an announcement.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation whether in view of the fact that the chairman of B.O.A.C. resigned within a few days of the announcement of the corporation's trading losses for 1945–46, he will make a statement giving the reasons for the resignation.

As already announced in the Press, Viscount Knollys intimated informally some months ago his inability to continue as chairman of British Overseas Airways Corporation beyond 30th June next, the expiry date of his term of four years for which he was released from his City business. My noble Friend has regretfully accepted his decision.

In view of suggestions that have gained a certain currency in the Press and elsewhere, I desire, with the concurrence of Lord Knollys, to make it clear that the reason for his ceasing to be chairman is neither more nor less than that I have stated, and I may add that the relations of Lord Knollys with my noble Friend and myself, both personally and officially, have throughout been and are of the best. I wish to take this opportunity of testifying to the devoted service given by Lord Knollys to British Overseas Airways Corporation and to civil aviation in general during his period of office, which has coincided with the critical phase of transition through war to peace.

Following upon the vacancy thus created in the chairmanship of British Overseas Airways Corporation, my noble Friend has made the following appointments:

• To be chairman of British Overseas Airways Corporation: Sir Harold Hartley, K.C.V.O., F.R.S., at present chairman of British European Airways Corporation.
• To be chairman of British European Airways Corporation: Mr. Gerard d'Erlanger, at present chief executive of that Corporation.

The board of British Overseas Airways Corporation have appointed Mr. Whitney Straight to be managing director (chief executive). They have also appointed Major J. R. McCrindle, at present deputy director-general of British Overseas Airways Corporation to be managing director (external affairs).

The board of British European Airways Corporation have appointed Mr. J. V. Wood, who has a long experience, both operational and administrative, in civil aviation, and is at present with British Overseas Airways Corporation, to be managing director of British European Airways Corporation.

The above appointments will take effect on the 1st July next, when it is my noble Friend's intention to appoint Mr. Whitney Straight to be a director of British Overseas Airways Corporation and Mr. Wood to be a director of British European Airways Corporation.

The appointment of Mr. Whitney Straight to British Overseas Airways Corporation will create a vacancy in the deputy chairmanship of British European Airways Corporation, and my noble Friend hopes shortly to be able to announce an appointment to that position.

While congratulating the Government on going to the much criticised Railway Executive for the new Chairman of B.O.A.C., and to private industry for both the other appointments, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to tell Lord Knollys that, while our views remain as they were in regard to these monopoly Corporations, we, on this side of the House, are most grateful to him for the courtesy and efficiency which, for so long, he has personally shown?

As a product of the railway industry myself, I will be happy to convey that message to Lord Knollys.

Can the Minister tell us Sir Harold Hartley's age?

I could not say exactly, but I think somewhere about 65 or 68.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the appointments of these younger directors which he has announced will give great satisfaction to the civil aviation industry?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will state the number of people employed by B.O.A.C. at Bovingdon airport in December last and today; the number of aircraft handled; and the number of passengers carried in these aircraft.

No, Sir. This question relates to a matter within the sphere of management which is left by the statute to the Corporation.

While I am glad that something is being left to the Corporation, may I ask if figures like this will appear in the statements rendered to Parliament shortly by the Corporations?

I doubt whether detailed figures of employment at the various airports will be included in the statements, but I will take note of the point, and, in so far as the larger centres of employment are concerned, I will see whether it can be done.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster the number of persons employed in the Control Commission, British element, in May, 1946, and at January, 1947.

The figures were 22,265 on 1st May, 1946, and 26,280 on 1st January, 1947.

Can the Minister explain to the House why, whenever there is a reduction in staff promised, it is followed by an increase? Can he say what is the principle on which he is working?

I think that it has been explained sufficiently on numerous occasions, that the establishment was originally cut from 42,000 last year to 26,000, and it has again been cut to 20,000. We have never, until recently, reached the 26,000 figure, but, as I have explained, there have been additional duties attached to the Control Commission for other Departments and these have increased the staff. In fact, the figure of 26,280 includes 2,300 additional people engaged on extraneous work to that of the Commission, and 2,000 military personnel who will be replaced by civilians.

Is it a fact that the staff has been reduced to 20,000?

The staff has now been reduced to 21,879.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster the total amount of timber obtained from Germany since the start of the operations; and the number of British personnel now engaged in this work in Germany.

Up to the end of January, 386,500 metric tons had been imported into this country from Germany. There were then 481 British staff engaged on this work.

Can the Minister say what yearly output from this source is anticipated?

I think the approximate target at the moment is round about a million tons per annum, but it depends entirely on the manpower and transport available and other factors of that kind. The House will be interested to know that, as compared with the first quarter of last year, when there was exported 11,200 tons, the figure in the last quarter was 164,743 tons.

Could the Minister divide up that figure in order to indicate timber suitable for building and timber which is suitable for electricity poles?

I could divide it up into sawn soft wood, logs and other kinds, and, if the hon. Member desires, I will send him the figures.

Can the Minister say how many of the 481 British personnel who are members of the Forestry Commission staff are still seconded to his Department, and who fixes the price of the timber on its arrival in this country?

The greater proportion, if not all of the staff, are recruited from the Home Grown Timber Control and they are part of the North German Timber Control. The price fixed in this country is a matter for the Board of Trade.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what was the pension allowed by the German Government for blind persons; what was the pension allowed for blind persons in August, 1945; and what is the present figure.

There was no standard pension for blind persons in Germany before the war and there is none now. Maintenance of blind persons is covered by social industrial or other general arrangements appropriate to the circumstances and cause of their disability.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster how many motorcars are in need of repair in Germany; and how many motorcars have been exported to Germany for the Control Commission.

On 10th March, about 3,460 British Element Control Commission cars were under repair. 528 cars have been exported to Germany for their use.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster by whom have the 26,600 houses derequisitioned in the British zone of Germany been released; and what additional requisitioning has been done by the two Belgian corps which have replaced 30 Corps.

All the properties were released by British Army of the Rhine. In the second half of the Question I presume the hon. Member is referring to the one Belgian corps which replaced certain British Divisions. During 1946, 1,763 houses and flats were requisitioned for them.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what change was made in the proportion of coal exported from the British zone between January and February, 1947; and whether either the German Bizonal Economic Committee or the Bipartite Economic Control Group were consulted before the change was made.

There was no change in the quantities allocated for export but transport difficulties, caused by the severe weather, reduced actual loadings from 451,000 metric tons in January to 297,000 metric tons in February.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what raw materials and semi-manufactured components for the manufacture of electric motors have been imported into Germany during the last 12 months; how much has come from England; and how much has had to be paid for in U.S. dollars.

None, Sir.

Can the Minister say whether any imports will be permitted or not?

I do not know whether I can say that any imports will be permitted. The test which has to be considered by the bizonal authorities is whether any imports are really essential to the purposes of the occupation.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in view of the fact that less than 10 per cent. of the 6,879 women in Greater Berlin who were compulsorily examined were found to be suffering from venereal disease, why the same compulsory powers are not exercised respecting the German and other male population, in view of their equal liability to spread this disease.

Under the German regulations German males as well as females are already subject to compulsory examination.

In view of the fact that, apparently, the incidence of this disease is so drastic and so sinister that ten times as many women have to be compulsorily examined as have actually been subject to the disease, why is it that the same regulations should not apply to other than the Germans?

The regulations in question are laid down by the German Berlin authorities, and therefore apply to Germans, and to those displaced persons and others who come within the German law. The Allied personnel in Berlin and other parts of the country are covered by the regulations under which they operate.

Is it not true that the original prewar regulations have been extended under the Occupying Power, and is there any reason at all why, if these regulations are necessary, similar regulations do not apply to British personnel?

I would not like to say that we would necessarily be prepared to adopt the same conditions as have been considered necessary by the German authorities. The conditions as compared with prewar are somewhat different in Berlin. The German authorities have taken such steps as they consider necessary, and of course there are special regulations applying to our own Armed Forces and to others.

But cannot British personnel infect and be infected as much as Germans?

Yes, but they come under the regulations applying to them, as in the case of the Army.

asked the Minister of Defence what is the value at cost, including final cost under lend-lease settlements, of R.N., Army and R.A.F. stocks, buildings and fixtures in India for the handing over of which negotiations are, at present, proceeding between His Majesty's Government and the interim Government of India.

The stores and other assets are dispersed throughout India, and the quantities to be handed over have not yet been determined. It is not, therefore, possible to estimate the amount which will be brought into any future negotiations on this matter with the Government of India.

Would the Minister of Defence, in settling the amount that is to be paid by the Indian Government for these stores and fixed assets, treat all this as a part of the general settlement of the debt to India?

I think that question should be put to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Minister of Defence whether, in the interest of economy, both of manpower and money, he will arrange for the R.A.F. to assume responsibility for the flying training of Naval Air Arm personnel and the maintenance of naval aircraft when ashore, and the shore naval bases now controlled by the Naval Air Arm to be transferred to the R.A.F.

There is no evidence before me that it would make either for economy or for efficiency for the R.A.F. to assume responsibility for those functions now carried out by the Royal Navy for the Naval Air Arm.

Is the Minister aware that there is duplication in the shore establishments, which must result in a wastage of manpower? Would he undertake to consider this in the light of evidence that I will bring to his notice?

I shall be glad to receive evidence. As my hon. and gallant Friend knows, basic pilot training is being done for the Navy by the Air Force already, and the subsequent training is carried out especially for naval purposes. I shall be glad to see any evidence he has.

asked the Minister of Defence how many of the estimated total of 20,000 deserters at large in the United Kingdom on 22nd January, 1947, have surrendered voluntarily between that date and 31st March, 1947; how many have been sentenced; and what steps will be taken to deal with deserters still at large.

asked the Minister of Defence if he is now in a position to make a full statement on the response to his recent appeal to deserters, together with a survey of the factors that contributed to its failure.

The final returns have not yet come in and may be appreciably increased by eleventh hour surrenders. The latest firm figures available show that since 22nd January the number of deserters who have surrendered voluntarily in the United Kingdom is:

Army	…	1,158
Royal Navy	…	227
Royal Air Force	…	230

During that period 549 deserting soldiers, 112 sailors and 25 airmen have been apprehended in the United Kingdom. In addition, a number of men have given themselves up or have been apprehended abroad during the period. Precise figures of these are not yet available. Of the men who surrendered voluntarily in the United Kingdom 720 soldiers, 203 sailors and 45 airmen have already been sentenced. The instructions for dealing especially quickly and leniently with deserters who surrendered voluntarily before the end of March have been withdrawn and any deserters who now surrender will be dealt with on their merits.

In view of the somewhat disappointing result of this appeal, does my right hon. Friend now intend to pursue more vigorous methods of rounding up deserters, or would he consider extending the period of clemency for another month or two months?

To the last part of the supplementary question I think the answer must be, "No, Sir." In regard to the first part, I would rather wait, before talking about failure, until we get the final figures. I have four or five days' returns to come in before they are complete. At any rate, I am satisfied that it has been worth while to get somewhere near 1,600 to 1,700 men voluntarily to decide for themselves to make good for the future.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Government's policy on the question of deserters is both harsh and inconclusive, and is likely to lead to a trail, over the years, of many broken lives? Will he take into consideration the feelings of the families of the men concerned and reconsider his decision?

I have tried to explain before that that may be the view of some of the families concerned, but it is by no means the view of (a) families who have lost men in the war, (b) many of the men who have been compelled to serve longer because other men deserted their duties, and (c) of many other families who have had sons who served faithfully and well right through, and therefore do not wish special treatment to be given to deserters.

Will the Minister give some indication of the percentage of deserters who have returned voluntarily to the Forces?

It is rather difficult to assess the percentage of actual deserters. There were about 20,000 men absent, but I cannot say that every one was a deliberate deserter. Some may have been missing for various other reasons. I cannot give the exact figure, but, taking 20,000, it means that we have recovered voluntarily about 7½ to 8 per cent., but that figure may be increased slightly when I get the final returns.

Will the Minister investigate with the Ministry of Food the fact that it is apparently quite easy for a person to go to a food office, change his name, and be registered under an assumed name, and to what extent that practice has made it difficult to trace these deserters?

I have put the point to my right hon. Friend, and no doubt other Members will do so.

While giving due weight to the considerations my right hon. Friend has mentioned, may I ask if it is not reasonably clear now that the number of people who have actually deserted is very small? Will he not consider this, in view of the fact that it is now two years since the end of the war, and reconsider whether a complete amnesty of all these offences might not now be granted?

I would like to make it clear, and I am sure all my hon. Friends will realise that it is fundamental, that we must maintain the discipline of organised manpower. It is not only the deserters but those who have served in the Forces who deserve consideration; there cannot be a repetition of amnesty. The Government made a fairly generous offer, many men have got off much more leniently in consequence, and they have had a long period in which to surrender. I think we have done our best, and we must leave it there.

Is there to be any period of leniency granted to those who deserted the Government last night?

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Food what accommodation is being provided for native workers and their families who are to be employed in connection with the East Africa Groundnut Scheme; and if he will give an assurance that no materials are exported from England for this purpose which are required for the domestic housing programme, or for electricity generating station buildings.

For the time being tents are being used, but eventually the African workers and their families will occupy cottages built mainly of local materials. If any question of competition arose, priority would certainly be given to electricity plant and housing in the United Kingdom.

Does the hon. Lady realise that the kind of building materials which have already left this country for East Africa are needed at home?

If the hon. Member will specify the materials, I will be pleased to look into it.

asked the Minister of Food how many catering licences were issued during the last 18 months to persons in Scotland and, in particular, in Aberdeen; and how many of these were issued to persons recently naturalised and to ordinary British citizens of long standing, respectively.

Between 16th August, 1945, and 15th January, 1947, 2,648 catering licences were issued in Scotland. Fifty-one of these were issued in the city of Aberdeen. No information is readily available of the number of licences granted to people recently naturalised, but of the 51 licences issued in the city of Aberdeen, two were granted to aliens who had given up existing businesses during the war.

Can the Minister tell us on what principle these licences are granted?

If the hon. and learned Member is talking about aliens, these licences were granted to these two men because one was an ex-trader; he had been in this country since 1911, and neither the Home Office nor the Minister of Labour objected. The other case was a man who had been on war service.

asked the Minister of Food if, in order to avoid repeated form-filling and ensure that all farmworkers get their due of the special allowances of rationed foods this summer, he will issue direct to them the necessary permits valid until the end of October.

My right hon. Friend regrets that he cannot allow workers themselves to draw the extra allowances, as they are not a differential ration for the individual, but a substitute for meals in a canteen. He is, however, making fresh arrangements to facilitate the distribution of the special allowances of food.

Is the Minister aware that the present arrangements are wholly unsatisfactory, and that throughout this summer many farmworkers will be putting in 60 hours a week? Will the Minister look at this again?

I think what has been wrong is that some of the farmers have failed to co-operate.

Have the farmers not enough form filling to do already? Does the hon. Lady realise that it is the individual farmworker whom we want to benefit, and not the farmer?

No, I am not aware of that. The farmer has only to fill in one form which covers the period and the number of workers employed.

He has then to go and divide the food according to his individual workers.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the schemes break down because so many farmers do not make the application in respect of their men? Will she consider the extreme desirability of making the rations available to the men?

The answer to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is, "Yes, Sir," and to the second part, I am sure my hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that the T.U.C. Advisory Council met my right hon. Friend on this point today.

May I ask what it has to do with the T.U.C.?

It has a great deal to do with the T.U.C., because the men are doing the work.