asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty to what extent accounting branches of his Department are using modern methods of mechanised accounting.

In the majority of Admiralty departments concerned, modern methods of mechanised accounting are either in use or on trial.

Now that the W.R.N.S. have been retained as a permanent part of the Service, would they not be considered suitable for this work?

I have no doubt that they would be very useful indeed.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what steps are taken to ensure that an officer or a man desiring to be released from the Royal Navy outside the United Kingdom is not thereby avoiding his obligations to maintain his wife and family.

Naval Commanders-in-Chief abroad have been instructed that local release is not to be approved unless they are satisfied that the applicant has undertaken to make reasonable provision for maintenance of his family, and that inquiries are to be made beforehand as to whether the man's family know of his intention and ate satisfied with the arrangements he proposes.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty when the naval camps at Rixton-with-Glaze-brook are likely to be vacated; whether they are fully utilised at present; and whether one or other of them can be released in the near future for housing or other necessary purpose.

The Admiralty is in possession of two camps in this area. The work of adapting one, to provide 96 flats for Admiralty civil employees at the Risley Storage Depot, is nearly complete. The second camp formed part of H.M.S. "Gosling" until the beginning of last month, and its conversion into married quarters for naval personnel is now under consideration.

Can the Civil Lord say why these camps are so far away from naval establishments?

These camps are not far away from naval establishments, though they may be away from dockyards. There is a very large storage dump at Risley, where there are a large number of men employed, and we feel that this accommodation is necessary.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many small craft have been sold to date by the Director of Small Craft Disposal; how many small craft are still to be disposed of; and what is the total sum realized from these sales.

Up to 26th June last, a total of 7,486 small craft had been sold by the Director of Small Craft Disposals. The sum realised was £3,298,402. On the same date, 2,108 small craft were awaiting disposal. Other craft will probably become available for disposal from various sources for some time to come.

Does not the Minister think that this type of small craft, which has been lying idle for two years and deteriorating, would be much better sold at any price rather than that they should be wasted, as they are now?

I could not possibly admit that. The sale of small craft has been extremely effective. We have had good prices, and it has been a very good financial operation.

Has not the moment now arrived when the small craft that have not been sold might be given away to training units?

I will certainly give that point consideration.

Could the Minister say where these craft may be seen by possible purchasers, and in what conditions?

They are in all sorts of places. I suggest that application should be made to the Secretary of the Admiralty.

Will the hon. Gentleman say if those craft which are suitable for inshore fishing could be sent on a tour round the coast so that they could be seen by prospective purchasers, instead of the prospective purchasers having to make long journeys to London?

I will consider that possibility, but it will mean the use of a number of people in the performance of that work, and we are naturally anxious to cut down the number as far as possible.

Could my hon. Friend say how many of these craft will be capable of being sent out without work being done on them?

No, Sir.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what classes of motor vessels, suitable for use in, or conversion for, the fishing industry, his Department has available for sale; where they may be seen; and what provision is made for supplying spare parts for them.

The only class of motor vessel at the disposal of the Admiralty acceptable to the fishing industry is that known as motor fishing vessels, which vary in size from 45 feet to 90 feet. In addition to the vessels of this type which have already been sold, negotiations are now in hand for the sale of a further 24 vessels. This number represents the total at present available for disposal. Vessels are sold as they lie, together with such items of equipment proper to the, vessels as are available on board or on shore. No provision is made by the Admiralty for the supply of spare parts.

Can the Minister say how many of these vessels are of American make, and, in view of the spare-part difficulty, whether spare parts can be got for them?

I am afraid I cannot give details with regard to those of American make, but I think I can say that the vast majority, if not all, are of British make.

Is the hon. Gentleman in contact with the Sea Fisheries Committee for the purpose of trying to dispose of these and other surplus vessels?

When these vessels are suitable for disposal, it is the policy of the Admiralty to get into touch with the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Scottish Home Department for the purpose of drawing the attention of the fishing interests to the matter.

In considering this question, will my hon. Friend bear in 'mind the claims of fishermen who have lost boats during the war so that they may have priority?

As I have said, we communicate with the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Scottish Home Department so that they may submit the vessels to their respective buyers.

Will the hon Gentleman say what is the price of these vessels?

The price varies according to the type of vessel, but the average price for the 90-ft. type is between £6,000 and £10,000 each, for the 75-ft. type, £5,000 each, for the 45-ft. type, with engines, £2,450, and £1,200 each at launching stage without engines.

Will the hon. Gentleman go a little further in his excellent efforts to get rid of these vessels by getting into direct contact with the local county authorities who are very closely connected with the fishing interests?

I cannot see the purpose of doing that at the moment because we have only 24 vessels for disposal, and negotiations are at present taking place for that number. However, if any more come along for disposal, I will certainly bear the hon. Gentleman's suggestion in mind.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he is aware that pension increases, in certain cases, are not being dated back to 19th December, 1945; and if he will take steps to ensure that the general provisions affecting these increases, as set out in the statement made on 15th April, 1946, are observed.

Increases of pensions under the scheme for re-assessment for war service are in all cases paid retrospectively to 19th December, 1945, where men are so entitled. Men who were not released by that date have, their pensions re-assessed as from the date of release, all their service up to the date of release being taken into account. They are not entitled to restrospective payment to a date earlier than their release

Will my hon. Friend give me an assurance that, where this has not been carried out, he will look into it and take steps to see that the increases are made retrospective to that date, because the Admiralty are at present treating these men in a rather niggardly fashion?

Can the Minister tell us what proportion of the total number of increased pensions given under the 1945 arrangement have, in fact, been paid out?

I could not without notice.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty, if he is aware that one condition of receipt of a reassessed pension is that it shall be drawn in weekly payments; and whether he will make arrangements for offering pensioners the option of receiving their pensions in quarterly payments.

It is appreciated that some pensioners who were entitled to draw their pensions quarterly under the old code would prefer to continue to do so. It was, however, a necessary condition of the new code that all such pensions should be paid on the weekly system. I might add, however, that weekly paid pensions need not be drawn each week; they may be left to accumulate for any period not exceeding 13 weeks.

Will my hon. Friend consider carrying out the existing arrangement in view of the fact that it would save a considerable amount of work, and. I imagine, manpower as well?

I think they have got the option. If they like, they can leave it for 13 weeks, which is, in fact, a quarter.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty, if he is aware that, when calculating reckonable years for purposes of re-assessing pensions, periods over six months and less than one year are being ignored; that this is contrary to the statement made on 15th April, 1946; and if he will take steps to ensure that such periods are counted as a full year.

In the statement referred to by my hon. Friend, the concession whereby an officer was allowed to count six months or over as one year was for a particular purpose only. This was in fixing the proportion of the difference between the old and new code pensions to which an officer would be entitled. This is being done in re-assessing pensions for retired officers.

If I send my hon. Friend particulars of cases where that is not being done, and where periods of over 10 months are being ignored, will he look into the matter?

Certainly, Sir. I hope that such cases are not many; in fact, I do not think they are.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what changes it is intended to make in the present organisation of the R.Ms.

During the present year, a change will be made in the organisation of the Royal Marines in the United Kingdom. At present, there are three Royal Marine groups; one at Chatham, one at Portsmouth, and one at Plymouth, each of which discharges similar functions. In future, each of these three groups will discharge a specific and separate function. A central pay and records system will be located in the Chatham group. Preliminary recruit training will be at Deal; all training for sea service and similar purposes will be located in the Portsmouth group and all land service training will be at Plymouth. This change will give greater efficiency in training and will effect a saving in manpower amounting to approximately 1,000 officers and men.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of the great satisfaction that his answer will give to all those, serving in the Royal Marines, both because of the added efficiency it will bring and because of the necessary savings it will effect in manpower at the present time?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is now in a position to say when it is intended to publish separate returns of the losses of Royal Navy, merchant and fishing vessels during the 1939–45 war.

Yes, Sir. The return of losses of ships of the Royal Navy is now available for publication, and I am arranging for copies to be placed in the Library of the House. The return of losses of British merchant and fishing vessels during the 1939–45 War will be available for publication on 4th July, and I will arrange for copies of that return also to be placed in the Library.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary also arrange to have lists made of the ships of the Royal Navy which are still available for service?

That is quite another question.

asked the Postmaster-General what arrangements exist for repairing telephones at Marple on Saturdays and Sundays.

Marple is part of the Stockport maintenance area. One engineering workman is scheduled to attend throughout Saturday to repair telephones in the area. Owing to pressure of work, he is at present assisted by two other workmen on Saturday mornings. On Sundays, telephone repairs are undertaken on an emergency basis by calling out an engineering workman on "stand-by" duty from his home.

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to increase these services, because professional men, hospitals and nursing homes are getting inadequate service with regard to the repairing of telephones?

If these people are not receiving an efficient service, I will certainly look into the matter.

asked the Postmaster-General whether sufficient trained staff and office machinery are yet available to enable his Department to revert to the prewar practice of rendering telephone accounts quarterly.

I regret that, in view of the manpower situation, there is no early prospect of reverting to quarterly telephone accounting.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on 31st October last the Assistant Postmaster-General did give an assurance that he expected the changeover to take place early this year? Would he bear in mind that it is very difficult to check these six-monthly accounts, and that this system comes very hardly on monthly wage earners who get these very large bills sent in twice a year? Could the right hon. Gentleman expedite the reversion to the prewar practice?

It was intended to revert to that practice, but owing to certain things which have happened we have not been able to do so. I agree that it is desirable, and we shall do it as soon as possible.

While the six-monthly account system remains in operation, will the right hon. Gentleman abolish the fee charged for itemising the accounts?

I should have to look into that matter.

asked the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been drawn to the unsatisfactory working of the Elmbridge telephone exchange; whether he has considered the representations made to him by the Surbiton Borough Council on this subject with particular reference to inadequate service given at the time of a recent fatal casualty; and what action he proposes to take in the matter.

Service at Elm-bridge exchange has been affected by heavy losses of operating staff during the past year. In spite of this, our regular sampling of the service shows that there has been a steady improvement and I hope that, as the new staff gains further experience, this improvement will be continued. I have considered the representations made by the Surbiton Borough Council, in regard to the recent fatal casualty, and I am satisfied that there was no avoidable delay in answering the call for the ambulance.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why the service given by this exchange is so conspicuously worse than that of all other exchanges in the neighbourhood; and is he aware that his predecessor gave me an undertaking a year ago that the staff would be increased?

I do not think it is necessary to increase the staff, although it may have something to do with it. I believe there has been a 50 per cent. turnover in staff in this neighbourhood, with the result that a lot of them are untrained. That has a lot to do with it. However, in the last week or two the service has been improving, and I hope it will improve still more.

asked the Postmaster-General why a large number of men between the ages of 60 and 66 years have recently been discharged from the postal service in Edinburgh so that they may take up work in industry, when, in fact, no industrial employment exists in the city for men of that age; and why he does not retain these older men in the service and release the younger men and women who would be more readily absorbed in employment of an industrial nature.

Forty full-time temporary postmen, of whom 14 were 60 years of age or over, were discharged at Edinburgh because they became redundant on the introduction of restricted postal services. Because of the curtailment of postal services, younger men, who would otherwise have been recruited to the Post Office, are available for employment in industry.

Is the Minister aware that there is considerable dissatisfaction with the way this scheme of reduction is operating ?

Where people are redundant and have to be stood off there is always a certain amount of dissatisfaction. That is almost inevitable.

Does the Minister agree that this process which is going on, of dismissing temporary men all over the country, is extremely wasteful from the point of view of manpower, and extremely tragic from the point of view of the men themselves?

I cannot agree about the waste part of it, but I do agree about the tragedy of it. I should like to avoid it, but it has to be done, and we have done it according to the regulations of the Whitley agreement.

Is it not wasteful for men who are good at a particular job, but are too old to be trained for a new job, to be stood down, while younger men who could be trained for industry are taken on in their places?

I do not think that necessarily proves the point about waste.

The hon. Gentleman said previously that the restriction of services was due to the lack of manpower, but he now says that the reduction of manpower is due to the restriction in services. Could he say which is correct?

I do not think that I said anything of the kind.

asked the Postmaster-General whether it is the general policy of his Department to discharge men over 60 years of age on grounds of redundancy in preference to younger employees of both sexes who might more easily find alternative employment in productive industry.

No, Sir. Temporary staff, as they become redundant, are discharged in accordance with an order of priority agreed in principle on the Civil Service National Whitley Council and in detail with the Post Office staff representatives. This order of priority is related to length of service, and not to age.

asked the Postmaster-General how many ex-Service men, recruited since 1st July, 1946, in line for establishment as postmen, have been dismissed since 1st January, 1947.

I have no information that such ex-Service men have been discharged, but if the hon. and gallant Member will give me particulars of any case, I shall be glad to have inquiry made.

Is it possible that some of these men may have been issued by the Ministry of Labour with the wrong form and, believing themselves to have applied for permanent employment in the Post Office, have in fact signed a form which makes them temporary employees? May that be the explanation?

I do not know about that, but if the hon. and gallant Gentleman will send me a case I will examine it.

May I, Mr. Speaker, through you, give notice to the Minister that I will endeavour to pursue this matter, if I am successful in catching the eye of the Chair, in today's Debate on the Post Office Estimates?

I must remind the hon. and gallant Gentleman that that will have nothing to do with me.

I said, Mr. Speaker, only if I were successful in being called.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware of the long queues at Leicester Square post office, when it is operating out of ordinary business hours; and whether he is considering keeping open further post offices, after hours and on Sundays, so as to provide a more efficient service.

I am looking into the matter, and will write to the hon. Member.

asked the Postmaster-General what are the qualifications necessary and what steps are taken to check on the satisfactory character of a Post Office employee before he is appointed to the position of sub-postmaster.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for North Aberdeen (Mr. Hector Hughes) on nth June.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that a recent case of Post Office fraud, which was reported in the Press at Southend, disclosed that a sub-postmaster had 12 previous convictions; and is he further aware that there is dissatisfaction among Post Office workers with the way in which a good many appointments are being made, and will he look into the matter with a view to removing that dissatisfaction?

I think there was a case of that kind, but the man in question had been convicted a good many years beforehand.

Is information regarding a man's record available to the Post Office?

Yes, Sir, up to a point.

asked the Postmaster-General for what purpose his Department has taken over the Air Ministry lease of 10 acres of the Palace of Engineering, at Wembley.

No accommodation in the Palace of Engineering has yet been taken over by the Post Office. Arrangements have, however, been made for the early acquisition of rather less than seven acres for the repair and servicing of telephone equipment and to meet urgent motor transport and storage requirements.

In view of the fact that this is one of the best industrial sites in the country, with an exceptional rail and road service, why should the Post Office use it for these light industries when it is urgently required for the purposes of heavy industry?

We are desperately short of room ourselves; this site has been offered to us, and we have naturally taken it.

Will my right hon. Friend make arrangements for the heavy industry to which reference has been made to be sent to Scotland?

asked the Postmaster-General by what authority his Department opened and returned to the sender certain correspondence posted in the Liverpool area sealed on the reverse with a label issued by the Conservative Party.

I much regret that, owing to an unfortunate misunderstanding of the rules by the local post office staff at Liverpool, the correspondence to which the hon. Member refers was returned to the sender. An apology for the mistreatment has already been tendered locally, and with that apology I would like to be associated.

Would it be some consolation to the right hon. Gentleman, in view of his very handsome apology, to know that the envelopes in question fetched a price of between £2 and £4 when sold by the Conservative Party to a local stamp dealer?

asked the PostmasterGeneral under what authority power is given to Post Office clerks to demand the production of an identity card; and under what authority they can refuse payment out to a depositor of the Post Office Savings Bank whose account is in credit, by reason only of a failure to produce an identity card.

The authority is contained in the Defence Regulations, as extended by the Emergency Laws (Transitional Provisions) Act, 1946. Defence Regulation No. 60cc (Statutory Rules and Orders No. 1145 of 1943) gives power to an officer of the Post Office not only to require the production of an identity card in connection with the payment of money out of a Post Office Savings Bank account, but also to refuse to proceed with the transaction until the identity card is produced.

As a check on fraud, is not this system a failure, in view of the fact that there was less fraud before the war when there were no identity cards, and is not the inference that controls breed evasion of controls and dishonesty increases under Socialism?

No, I would not accept the first line of argument. As to the suggestion about dishonesty under Socialism, I will leave that until some future time. The production of an identity card may not be the best protection, but it has been some protection in the Post Office against these frauds.

asked the Postmaster-General why headquarters Post Office authorities now state that nothing leaves after 6.30 p.m., in view of the earlier announcement that urgent letters taken to any head district post office in London can get a later collection up to about 8 p.m. for delivery by first post in the morning.

I fear there must be some misunderstanding. Letters intended for delivery in England and Wales by first post the following weekday can be posted at any London head district post office up to 8 p.m. The final general collection from the street posting boxes in London is, however, made at 6 to 6.30 p.m.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if he will telephone to the headquarters of any of these post offices he will be told that nothing goes out after 6.30 p.m., and that if he takes any letters there up to 8 o'clock it is no use whatever?

I will make inquiries into this.

Could the right hon. Gentleman not give us a later collection than 8 o'clock from this House, as we normally had a collection later than any head district office?

I believe that matter has already been raised; I do not know what the position is at the moment.

Would the right hon. Gentleman make it his business to see that the chief officers in the various headquarters are aware of the information which he gives to this House, because they certainly are not aware of it?

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the dislocation caused to business firms in St. Marylebone by the late deliveries of the first post in the morning; and what steps he is taking to provide an earlier delivery.

Rearrangement of the postal services to save manpower means that the first delivery in St. Marylebone now finishes about 15 minutes later than before. The aim is to complete the delivery by 9.0 a.m., and I hope that this, will soon be achieved, as the postmen settle down to their new duties and delivery rounds. Meanwhile I am sorry that business firms and residents have been inconvenienced.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that a special delivery of pools circulars and coupons was made in the Harrow area during the afternoon of 23rd June, although the normal deliveries are now restricted to two daily; and if he will restrict additional facilities of a special kind so as to increase the services to the general public.

On 23rd June the number of pool items on hand at Harrow was such that they could not wholly be included in the normal deliveries without adversely affecting the services. They were, therefore, disposed of in a special delivery. The abolition of such special deliveries, which obtain only infrequently and over small areas, would not enable me to increase the services to the general public without additional calls on manpower.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that this explanation will not by any means satisfy people who were incommoded by what they considered and still consider a delivery that has no moral justification, and which loaded extra work on postmen, when they can see and I can see no urgency in such deliveries?

I do not know whether my hon. Friend has got it right. As I understand it, the special delivery was made specially so that it would not interfere with the other two general deliveries, and so that it would not incommode the general public.

Would my right hon. Friend consider having a word with the Headmaster of Harrow to try to get out of this difficulty, and reduce this football betting postage?

asked the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been drawn to the covers of a large number of letters addressed to a Regent-street firm, which were postmarked 9th June in various parts of England, including London, but not received until nth June, or similarly postmarked 18th but not received until 20th June, or postmarked Saturday, 21st June, and not received until the afternoon of 23rd June; and whether such delays will be normal under the new postal restrictions.

I have examined the covers referred to by the hon. Member. The majority should have been delivered on the morning following posting, and I much regret that delay has occurred from mistreatment in the post. It was quite abnormal and was not due to the recent restrictions of postal services; we are doing all we can to prevent further inconvenience to the firm.

Could the Postmaster-General say to what this delay of large batches of letters was due?

I could not at the moment, but I know that when complaints first came in one of our high officials went to the place concerned, and was able to put the matter right. I think he has largely succeeded. Complaints of delays have' not arisen since that time.

asked the Postmaster-General how many anti-Government Members of Parliament and candidates for Parliament have participated in talks and discussions on the Scottish service of the B.B.C, between 1st January and 30th June; and how many Members of Parliament or candidates for Parliament who support the Government.

Between 1st January and 31st May, 1947, the numbers of hon. Members broadcasting in the Scottish Home Service of the British Broadcasting Corporation were: Labour, 16; Conservative, 14; National, 1; National Liberal, 1; Liberal, 1; Independent, 5. In addition, the Prime Minister and the right hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Mr. Eden) have broadcast in the series "Party Political Broadcasts." Two Government and one Opposition spokesmen broadcast on the Budget, and five Ministers broadcast on other occasions. I regret that information for the further period up to 30th June is not yet available, and that the number of broadcasters who may be Parliamentary candidates is not known.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the policy has changed very greatly during June, and that on several Fridays in that month, particularly on the second Friday, we had six speakers of whom two were Tories, one anti-Labour—[An HON. MEMBER: "Anti-Labour?"]—Yes, I refer to the minister of a certain cathedral who has been famous for making anti-Labour pronouncements; therefore, I call him anti-Labour. There were also: one Communist, one Liberal Scottish Nationalist and one Scottish Nationalist. There was no Member of the Government whatever.

May I ask what the term "anti-Government Members" in the Question means?

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that there will be no professional comedians among anti-Government speakers?

As one of the six people referred to by the hon. Lady, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman decides whether the hon. Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) is pro-Government or anti-Government?

No, thank goodness, I have not to decide that.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware of the rapid deterioration of the radar station at Start Point: and whether, in view of this deterioration and the injury caused by the station to local amenities, he will arrange for its early removal.

I am happy to inform the hon. and gallant Member that arrangements are now being made for dismantling the station at Start Point. I am consulting with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply about the removal of the mast and of the huts.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will make application to His Majesty's Consul General at Naples to furnish the death certificates in the case of British subjects killed in the air accident on the Isle of Ischia on 8th March, 1947.

I am glad to assure the hon. Baronet that an application for the death certificates of the British subjects killed at Ischia was made to His Majesty's Consul-General at Naples without delay. Various difficulties and misunderstandings arose, but I hope that they have now been removed or overcome.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for his reply, may I ask if he will bear in mind that the widows cannot get their pensions until the death certificates are given? Will he treat the matter as one of urgency?

Yes, Sir. The Foreign Office have sent instructions to try to secure that this shall be done immediately.

asked the Secretary of State for Air to what extent accounting branches of his Department are using modern methods of mechanized accounting.

Mechanised methods of accounting are already in use in the Maintenance Command of the R.A.F.; in all Area Headquarters of the Air Ministry Works Department in the United Kingdom; in the Base Accounts Office where the pay accounts of airmen in Germany are kept; in the branch of the Air Min- istry where Income Tax is recorded; and in a number of other branches in my Department. I am now considering whether mechanised methods can be used in dealing with the pay and allowances of all sections of the R.A.F.; these methods will be introduced in other parts of our accounting system as and when it is possible and advantageous so to do.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his statement means that at last avoidable delays in pay and allowances will be overcome in the very near future?

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether, in the interest of food production and local amenities, he is now in a position to return the site of Podington aerodrome, Bedford shire, to its original owner, who is anxious, at an early date, to graze a herd on it.

The future of the airfield at Podington has not yet been decided. I am glad to inform my hon. Friend, however, that, pending a final decision, the restrictions on the use of the land for farming have been removed, and the land is already being farmed.

Yes, but will my right hon. Friend look into the background of this case, when he will discover that a virtual agreement was come to between his Department and the owner of what, up to now, has been an aerodrome, to return it immediately after the end of the war?

I am not aware of that agreement; but of course, in such cases the public interest must also be considered when a final decision is made.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether his attention has been drawn to the serious condition of the sewerage at the R.A.F, station, Worli, India, where the sewage is constantly bubbling up through the manholes and spreading over the camp ground; and whether he will issue instructions for it to be torn up and relaid.

I have received a report on the sewage system at Worli from the R.A.F, authorities in India who are responsible for hygiene. While they consider that the system is generally sound, they say that there may sometimes be an overflow, and that there is a danger of flooding during the monsoon. At such times, a special squad is detailed to inspect the drains.

I agree with the hon. Member in thinking that it is most important, in an area where typhoid is endemic, that the sewage system should leave nothing to be desired. I am, therefore, asking the Command to find out whether the drains at Worli are peculiarly liable to overflow, and if so, to carry out the necessary works.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask if he is aware that a friend of my own who is at that camp tells me that he and his associates go about in fear and trembling because they never know when they are going to be struck down by disease?

My hon. Friend has another Question, to which I will make a further answer in a moment.

What provision is made for chlorination of the mains to prevent, or to help to prevent, the possibility of typhoid?

I am about to say on Question No. 38.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware that there were, 36 cases of typhoid, of whom six died, in Worli Camp, Bombay, in 1946; that this year there are a further six cases of typhoid to date; and what steps are being taken to prevent the contamination of the water supply of the camp which is the alleged source of infection.

In 1946, there were 32 cases of typhoid at Worli Camp; this year there have been 11 cases. In 1946 one man died; on grounds of conscience, he had refused inoculation. As soon as the water supply was found to be infected, all drinking water was chlorinated in mobile tanks. New mains were installed last December, and analysis has shown that the water is now free from all infection, but as an additional precaution, the mobile tanks are still in use

asked the Secretary of State for Air what steps are being taken to prevent damage to public property on Silverstone aerodrome and the wrongful abstraction from that aerodrome of electric and other fittings, kitchen equipment, baths, sinks, etc.; and if he will give an estimate of the damage done and value of the articles improperly taken since the R.A.F. ceased to occupy the aerodrome.

The aerodrome at Silverstone will not in future be required by the R.A.F. All movable R.A.F. equipment was taken away, all R.A.F. personnel were withdrawn, and the aerodrome was closed on 17th March last. Since then, trespassers have done damage to the value of about £250, and about £120 worth of equipment has been stolen. We are now waiting for other Government Departments to take up this accommodation. In the meantime I will take what steps I can to prevent further depredations of the kind to which the hon. and learned Member has been good enough to draw my attention.

When the right hon. Gentleman says that the aerodrome has been closed, is he aware that not a single door of any of the numerous huts on that aerodrome is locked at all; that anyone can obtain access from the numerous roads; and that there is no obstruction to prevent people going in? Is he also aware that it would be of immense value to the local authority for housing? Would he consider disposing of it?

Because there was likely to be delay in taking up the accommodation we did remove nearly £4,000 worth of domestic equipment which would not normally have been removed before the camp was closed. I will see what can be done now. The camp was originally laid open to the public by storm damage—that is my information— and then trespassers entered and did the further damage to which I referred.

But is the right hon. Gentleman aware that while the storm did some damage to some of the huts the majority are undamaged, with the exception that all the doors are open, and that there is still a large quantity of kitchen equipment of great value on the premises?

I am going to do everything I can. I ought also to say to the hon. and learned Gentleman—I think he knows it already—that the R.A.F. are very short of manpower, and that to put guards on these places which have been closed is a matter of the greatest difficulty. But we shall do everything possible.

Are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply that since March last, when the camp was closed, no R.A.F. guard as a maintenance unit was retained there?

To my regret there have not been guards.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the very important domestic equipment he says has been taken away will be made available for houses?

That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply and the other competent authorities to decide.

Is it not the duty of the right hon. Gentleman to keep a small party upon such premises until they are transferred effectively into other hands?

If we had sufficient manpower, no doubt we should desire to do so. In this particular case it was thought that the accommodation would be very quickly taken up, but difficulty arose because it was found that the accommodation is on land that belongs to the Forestry Commission. There has not been very long delay due to that. I hope to settle it very quickly.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what is the size of the area of Cannock Chase at present requisitioned by his Department; for what purposes it is being used; and when he proposes to derequisition it.

The R.A.F. holds 460 acres of Cannock Chase. Three hundred and ninety acres are used as a range for the demolition of explosives; 70 acres form part of a technical training school. The Air Ministry wish to keep this land, but before a decision is taken their proposals will come before the Interdepartmental Committee on Service Land Requirements.

Is the Minister aware that this question is causing grave concern in the West Midlands; that the whole of the Cannock Chase has previously been a rural amenity accessible to the public in peacetime; and will there be a local inquiry, at which the local authorities can express their views, before any decision is taken on this matter?

I have no doubt that under the general arrangements to be made a public inquiry will be held, if so desired. As for the access to the public, I hope that for nearly all the time, except when actual explosions are going on, access to the public will be maintained, and I hope the amenities will not be damaged in any way.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether the Manpower Economy Committee have reported on the utilisation of manpower and maintenance units; and whether they have investigated the situation at No. 4 M.U.

Under their terms of reference, the Manpower Economy Committee have been considering questions of a general nature; and not the use of manpower in any single unit of the R.A.F. For this purpose they are inspecting stations both at home and overseas, and they will no doubt consider whether they should visit No. 4 Maintenance Unit. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the information which he has given me about this unit; as a result, we are making special investigations, and I hope that substantial economies may be made.

Would my right hon. Friend tell the House what instructions have been given to commanding officers to reduce personnel as far as possible ?

There are standing instructions on that; and not only so, but a special branch of the Ministry is constantly considering the matter.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation how many J. U. 52's have been converted to Jupiters; the total cost of conversion; and on what routes these machines are operating, or are to be operated.

Ten J.U. 52's have been converted to Jupiters at a cost of about £125,000. These aircraft are at present operated by British European Airways Corporation on five of their Scottish services, but are to be replaced in the autumn of this year.

Could my hon. Friend say, are all these ships being used at the present time; and on what specific routes are they being used?

These are aircraft, not ships. All the aircraft are being used. They are on the following services: Glasgow—Belfast; Prestwick—Belfast; Glasgow—Aberdeen—Orkney—Shetlands; Glasgow — Stornoway — Inverness; Glasgow — Inverness — Wick — Orkney Shetlands.

Could my hon. Friend explain why these aircraft, which are not by any standard modern, are used exclusively in Scotland?

Because, in fact, Scotland is getting most of England's air services.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation why passengers are refused bookings on the ground that there are no seats available on the Renfrew—London route, when the seats on the journey are not fully occupied.

I am informed by the British European Airways Corporation that no bookings are refused on the Renfrew—London route if passenger accommodation is available on the aircraft at the time of the request. It sometimes happens, however, that an aircraft may leave with empty seats, because of a last minute cancellation, or because passengers may fail to make use of their bookings, or arrive too late to board the aircraft. Bookings which are cancelled at the last minute are offered to any intending passengers who may be waiting at the airport. Occasionally an aircraft will leave with empty seats because excess mail is being carried.

Is my hon. Friend aware that one of the reasons why passengers cannot get seats is because the office is closed early at night and opens late in the morning, unlike the railway services, where one can phone at 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock at night; and is he further aware that they have office hours, and that this is just not good enough for an emergency plane service?

Scotland has a Scottish Advisory Council to assist in the management of its own affairs. Doubtless, if complaints were made to that Council, they would be looked into and attended to.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that everything which has been brought by this Council to the notice of the Ministry has been entirely disregarded?

That statement is completely without foundation. Not a single item has been brought to the attention of the Minister by the Council. Each item dealt with by the Council has been put to one or other of the various Corporations.

What about the radar equipment at Prestwick?

Of what use is the Scottish Advisory Council, or any other council, which does not know that a plane is something which is to be used in an emergency, and that there should be someone on duty at all hours of the night?

This is a Scottish battle. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] The Council was appointed on nominations from various bodies within Scotland itself.

They did not ask for it.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation why bookings to London via Prestwick are refused at Renfrew; and why passengers arriving at Prestwick are told to find their own transport to Renfrew.

I am informed by the British European Airways Corporation that a passenger wishing to travel on the Prestwick—London service may, if he so desires, make a booking at Renfrew. If my hon. Friend is aware of any case of refusal and will send me details I shall be glad to bring it to the notice of the Corporation. As regards the second part of the Question, the services London—Prestwick and London—Renfrew are entirely separate and unconnected services, and no question of providing transport between Prestwick and Renfrew therefore arises.

Does my hon. Friend know that the hon. Member for Coatbridge cannot get a booking between Renfrew and Prestwick; and would he see that the two stations are, at least, on speaking terms?

Will the Parliamentary Secretary also make sure, in getting these two stations on speaking terms, that unnecessary inconvenience and expense is not incurred by passengers wishing to travel from Renfrew to London when they come from the Prestwick area by having to make their own private arrangements, when the plane itself starts from Prestwick?

There are two distinct services, one Prestwick to London and the other Renfrew to London. If a passenger makes the choice of the Prestwick-London service, then it is no concern of the operators to provide transport for them to Prestwick.

Is the Minister aware that, whereas Scotland has some type of air service, the West of England and Cornwall have none at all?

I want to ask the Minister very seriously, in view of the statement he has made, if the Scottish Advisory Council will be permitted to meet and take decisions on these questions?

The Scottish Advisory Council is a council, as its name indicates, to give advice, and its advice is invariably accepted.

It is never taken, and never has been.

In view of the tact that the fare from Prestwick to London is the same as the fare from Renfrew to London, is it not absurd that a plane should leave Prestwick with empty seats, and that passengers anxious to use it, because transport—

This Question asks why passengers arriving at Prestwick are told to find their own transport to Renfrew. It has nothing to do with transport to London.

It operates both ways. Just as no transport can be laid on to Prestwick from London, no transport is laid on from Prestwick to London. That is the point.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation if he will have immediate inquiry made into complaints by many residents in Heston and Isleworth regarding the low flying of air liners coming into and leaving the London Airport late at night and in the early hours of the morning; whether he is aware that many liners enter the airport at a much lower height during the night than during the daytime and that the noise and vibration caused are disturbing and distressing the inhabitants, especially children; and if he will take all steps possible to reduce the nuisance to the absolute minimum.

My noble Friend is always ready to investigate specific complaints of any unnecessary low flying. Detailed examination of past complaints, however, shows that in most cases the aircraft concerned were flying in strict accordance with accepted principles, and that a general inquiry would be unlikely to prove worth while. At night, aircraft appear to observers on the ground to be flying lower than they really are, because only the navigation lights are seen. Moreover, the impression of noise at night is accentuated by the absence of noise on the ground. It is not possible to avoid all noise at a large international airport, but everything possible is done to ensure that pilots of aircraft conform strictly to the rules governing approach and take-off. It is hoped that certain night training that has recently taken place at London Air- port can shortly be removed to a more suitable area.

In order to try to reassure the residents in my constituency who live in close proximity to the London Airport, will my hon. Friend have a special inquiry into the complaint raised in the second part of my Question in regard to night flying?

Noise is bound at present to arise when aircraft land and take off. A pilot does not unnecessarily risk his life, apart from the lives of others, by flying low unnecessarily when about to land, or by flying low longer than necessary in taking off. Everything possible is done to minimise the risk to aircraft and to avoid disturbance to passengers.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation (1) why meals are no longer served free on board aircraft operated by B.E.A.C.; and whether there was consultation with other airlines prior to reaching this decision;

(2) the cost of providing meals free to passengers by each of the civil aviation corporations for the last financial year or latest available date;

(3) whether any change is contemplated in the practice of serving meals free to passengers travelling in aircraft operated by the B.O.A.C. and B.S.A.A.C.

The cost of meals provided on aircraft, and the question whether they should be provided free, are matters of management with which my noble Friend does not consider it proper for him to interfere. The Question of whether meals should be provided free has been the subject of discussion between airline operators in the International Air Transport Association, and the policy of the three British corporations is in accordance with the resolutions of that body.

Will my hon. Friend inform me, in view of the fact that very heavy subsidies are paid to these corporations, whether the Minister has not the right to ask for this information in accordance with the Act?

Yes, Sir, he can ask for the information, and if it were asked for it would be given, but this House has expressly desired that the Minister should interfere as little as possible in the day-to-day matters of management.

Does my hon. Friend not agree that in this case public money is involved, and that it makes a large difference in the competitive powers of these aircraft with other aircraft?

My hon. Friend will be aware that the I.A.T.A. determines such questions as the fares to be charged and what they shall include. The three corporations comply strictly with these international resolutions.

Why is it that a certain European line does provide meals with out extra charge?

The fact is that I.A.T.A. works in regions, with each region determining the tares which shall operate and the conditions attaching to those fares. As far as we are concerned, instead of saying that the fare "shall" include meals, it says "may," and the British interpretation of "may" is that they can have an opportunity to charge.

I beg to give notice that J shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Defence how many free warrants a year for leave from Germany are given for unmarried Service men; and how many for married Service men and their wives.

Two free warrants a year for home leave are given to all members of the Services stationed in Germany except married men accompanied by their families, who are not entitled to leave in the U.K.

Can the Minister of Defence say why they are not entitled to leave to the United Kingdom; and would not it be equitable to give them the two free warrants which they may use for themselves and their wives?

They already have privileges over other people in having their families with them in Germany In addition to which they get two local leave warrants up to within 100 miles of their station.

asked the Minister of Defence (1) whether a sailor, soldier or airman who before joining the Services was subject to an approved school order made by a juvenile court is debarred from attaining commissioned rank, notwithstanding having successfully passed an O.C.T.U. course;

(2) whether boys who have been subject to approved school orders made by juvenile courts are debarred from enlisting in the Royal Navy, the Army and the R.A.F.