asked the Minister of Education whether he is aware of the recent case in Stafford where 28 boys, all aged about 13 years, were flogged with a rope; that no action was taken against the master who administered this punishment and who was not even reprimanded; whether such punishment is in accordance with the regulations approved by him; or what steps he proposes to take in the matter.

I have received full reports of the special meetings of the Governors and of the Staffordshire local education authority which investigated this incident and I am satisfied that there are no grounds for my intervention.

Is it not a fact that one of these boys was struck four times and that no explanation was given? Is it not most undesirable that such mass punishments should take place?

Having read the evidence, I fail to connect it with the statement in regard to the individual being struck four times. I am convinced that the action taken by the education committee is sufficient.

Is not this much ado about nothing?

asked the Minister of Education how many science teachers from secondary and grammar schools have left the teaching profession to go into industry; and if he is satisfied that such transfers will not adversely affect the staffing of our schools in the future.

The returns I get from the schools do not enable me to answer the first part of the Question, but I am hoping to get some information about the movement of science graduates in general as a result of the questionnaire which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour is sending to them. I have no direct evidence of any abnormal movement of science graduates from the schools, and the expansion of the science faculties at the universities will, I believe, go far to meet the schools' needs.

Could the Minister give the same advantages as those offered by industry, in order to keep these teacners in the teaching profession?

I have neither the power nor the authority to do it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very grave shortage of science teachers in secondary schools, and does he not think that the best way to get adequate supplies is to apply the Burnham scales upwards?

I think that any reference to the Burnham scales had better await the report to me of the Burnham Committee.

asked the Minister of Education if he is satisfied that the equality of pay to graduate and non-graduate teachers will not have a detrimental effect upon the staffing of second ary schools; and what steps he is taking to encourage graduates to fill vacancies in secondary rather than elementary schools.

My hon. Friend is misinformed. Additions to the basic scales of salaries are paid to graduate teachers.

asked the Minister of Education whether he is aware that although the approval of his Ministry was given for the erection for an external iron staircase at the Spalding High School for girls on 14th December, 1946, this staircase has not been erected owing to the difficulty in securing the necessary materials; and whether he will indicate the relations between his Department and the Ministry of Supply to ensure that small quantities of iron and steel essential for safety precautions, as recommended by the N.F.S., are released in this and similar cases.

The answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part, the regional officers of the Ministry of Supply do what they can to assist in the supply of steel for work of the kind concerned, but deliveries from the rolling mills are unavoidably delayed by pressure of work and orders having overriding priority.

Can the Minister give any indication of when these materials will be available?

No, but we are pressing to get them as speedily as we can.

asked the Minister of Education how many children of five years of age are excluded from school in Upwell; and for what reason.

I understand that some 15 children of five years of age were temporarily excluded from the Upwell county primary school owing to the transfer of a member of the staff to another school. The vacancy on the staff of the Upwell school has now been filled and the excluded children are being admitted.

For what reason did the difficulty arise in getting another teacher?

The difficulty did not arise in getting another teacher. The difficulty arose through the transferring of a teacher.

asked the Minister of Education whether he is satisfied that his regulations ensure that the standard of attainment for admission to a county secondary grammar school is uniform throughout the areas covered by any local education authority so that a successful pupil's educational opportunity is not jeopardised by the accident of his family's removal to another part of the administrative county.

The selection of pupils for admission to grammar schools is primarily a matter for the local education authorities. If, however, the hon. Member has any particular difficulties in mind, perhaps he would write to me.

Is it permissible for the committee of an excepted district to offer a grammar school place to a pupil whom they subsequently report, on his removal to another district, as not having reached the standard of marks prescribed by the county authority?

That sounds a little too complicated for me to answer at the moment. If my hon. Friend will put the problem in the form of a letter to me I will give him an answer.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware of the overcrowding at Horsforth Feather-bank Primary School due to raising of the school leaving age; why prefabricated huts have not been erected although the foundations have been laid and building materials have been on the site for more than four months; and what action he intends to take to overcome the increasing overcrowding at this school.

My information is that the school, though full, is not overcrowded. Delay in providing the huts has been due to the local education authority's difficulty in acquiring the necessary site, which was entered upon prematurely four months ago in advance of agreement with the owners. Agreement has now been reached and building will be resumed as soon as possible.

Can the Minister state when the hut's will be completed?

I cannot say.

asked the Minister of Education how many State scholarships tenable at technological institutions or technical colleges were offered this year; how many candidates there were for these scholarships; and how many reached the standard for receiving an award.

One hundred technical State scholarships were offered this year. One hundred and seventy-three candidates entered for the scholarships and 59 were awarded.

Can my right hon. Friend state from which educational sources the candidates were drawn?

Not at this stage, but I will have inquiries made.

asked the Minister of Education how many State scholarships tenable at universities were offered this year; how many candidates there were for these scholarships; and how many scholarships were awarded.

Seven hundred and fifty State scholarships were offered this year to candidates from secondary schools on the results of the higher certificate examinations. Over 11,000 pupils entered for the scholarships and the full number of 750 were awarded.

asked the Minister of Education how many State scholars protested against being allocated to the university to which they were directed; how many refused to take up their scholar ships as a result of this; how many asked for their scholarships to be postponed for a year; and how many on the reserve list were ultimately awarded and took up a State scholarship.

I am unable to state precisely how many students have protested. Seventy-seven successful candidates declined scholarships for various reasons and 352 have postponed taking up their awards. Seventy-three candidates on the reserve list were offered scholarships and 53 have so far accepted them.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this direction, combined with the system of supplementary awards, has greatly lowered the prestige of State scholarships, and means in effect, that a minor exhibition for the university is of more value than a State scholarship?

No, I would not accept that for a moment. I believe that there are circumstances in which, owing to the conditions attached to the State scholarship, on account of the increased number, a local authority's award has been accepted instead of a State scholarship because it enabled a student to go to a particular university.

What is meant by "the reserve list"? Are those on the list the students who qualified for a State scholarship but did not get one because there were not enough to go round?

That is not quite correct. The 73 reserve places were those of the next 73 on the list, and their turn comes if others, for any particular reason, decline the scholarship they have won.

In view of the great scarcity of places in universities should not any scholar who is offered a place in any university be only too grateful to accept?

Yes, but there are circumstances in which they find it advantageous at least to hold it over for a period.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations how many British nurses are still in India; and what facilities are being afforded for their repatriation.

According to the latest information I have received, there are now in India and Pakistan 153 nursing officers of Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing Service, and one matron and 26 sisters of Princess Mary's Royal Air Force Nursing Service. These officers will be brought home or posted to other commands as quickly as the available shipping and transport will allow. It is expected that they will all have left India and Pakistan by March, 1948. I regret that I have no reliable information about the number of British nurses still in civil employment in the two Dominions.

Is adequate protection being given to these nurses during these difficult times? Further, could my right hon. Friend say whether proper provision is made for them to be repatriated as soon as they themselves wish to be repatriated?

Those who are serving with the military Forces will no doubt be protected by those Forces. They will be repatriated or sent to other Commands, according to circumstances, with those Forces. Those in civilian employment will have to decide for themselves if they want to come home. They will have the same protection as other civilians. They must apply to shipping companies for passages.

How many of these nurses have remained in Pakistan and India, respectively, particularly in Pakistan, where their services are badly required?

I have no indication that they wish to come away.

Have there been any casualties among these officers?

Among the nurses, none at all.

Are these nurses assisting in the refugee problem, and would the right hon. Gentleman look into it, and, if they are not, see if they can lend a hand in the difficulties which exist?

I will look into it, but they are primarily looking after the British Forces to which they are attached, and for which they are required.

What proportion of the British Red Cross and St. John Ambulance will be in India and Pakistan henceforth?

Red Cross matters are looked after by the Indian and Pakistan Red Cross Societies respectively. The British Red Cross are supplying some medical material from here for which these two societies in the Dominions have asked.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he is satisfied that the steps taken are adequate for the safety of British nationals in India; and whether he will make a statement on the position.

Yes, Sir. The hon. and gallant Gentleman will, I am sure, realise that primary responsibility for the safety of British subjects of European descent in India and Pakistan rests with the Governments of those Dominions. But I am glad to assure him that our High Commissioners at New Delhi and Karachi continue to give the matter their closest attention. I am glad, also, to tell him that the disturbances have not, in the main, affected those parts of the Dominions in which most of the British subjects of European descent reside, and that no attacks have been made on Europeans because they are Europeans. I regret, however, that there have been one or two casualties, both among British Officers serving in the Dominion Armies, and among civilians protecting their property and staff. I am sure the House would wish me to extend its sympathy to the friends and relatives of those who were killed. In October, officials of our High Commissions visited a number of hill stations in Northern India, where, owing to the disturbances, a number of European British subjects had been cut off. With the help of the Government of India and the High Commissioner, many of these people were safely brought to Delhi. Some of them, however, elected to remain.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the facilities at the disposal of the Governments of Pakistan and Hindustan are, at any rate at this time, sufficient to provide the necessary safeguards for our nationals there? Have they asked for any help from the British Government?

We are in constant consultation with them. In many places I think that the facilities at the disposition of the Governments of the Dominions are sufficient, but elsewhere we are making arrangements, as will appear from the next Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what steps he is taking to ensure the safety of British subjects still remaining in Srinagar, Kashmir.

Before the present troubles began, the United Kingdom High Commissioner in Pakistan had made arrangements for British subjects of European descent to leave Kashmir, if they so desired, and he advised them that they would be wise to do so. The Supreme Commander subsequently sent some aircraft of the R.A.F. to Srinagar to bring them out, and 154 people were thus transported on 29th and 30th October. Between 150 and 200 others, however, decided to remain. They were warned again on Saturday last that, in the opinion of His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom, they would do well to come away. We are now discussing with the Government of India and with the Supreme Commander how they could best be brought away.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why there is not even a British consul at Srinagar to help and advise these unfortunate British subjects?

We have had officials of the High Commissioner constantly in Srinagar. Major Cranston has been there a number of times, and I think he is there now.

Do we understand that there are still 100 or more British subjects in Kashmir? Is that the position?

Yes, Sir. There are between 150 and 200 who decided to remain. They are mostly people who have resided in Kashmir for many years, and who, quite naturally, did not want to leave their property, especially as they could not bring out much luggage by air. We are now trying to arrange road convoys, which can still get through, so that they may bring more of their possessions with them if they come out.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many new daily or weekly periodicals have been authorised for issue since 1st January, 1947, and if he will state their names.

One daily newspaper in Chinese entitled "Chiao Sheng Pao." That means the "Voice of the Overseas Chinese." Periodicals using less than eight cwts. of paper in four months do not, however, require specific authorisation.

Is it not a fact that recently a chain of Socialist newspapers has been authorised to appear, and will the Minister give an assurance that the allocation of paper to newspapers and periodicals will not be made on a political basis?

I have said that the only paper authorised for issue since 1st January, 1947, is the Chinese paper to which I referred, which, so far as I know, is not a Socialist periodical.

Is it considered necessary?

It was considered so by the Foreign Office.

Will the Minister make further inquiries about the chain of newspapers?

asked the President of the Board of Trade why a licence has not been granted to the Centrepex International Trading Company, Limited, for the importation of M.G. Sulphite paper from Norway and Sweden.

Supplies of tissue for. toilet paper production which are already available from home mills or established importers, are adequate to cover our present requirements.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that the Centrepex Company imported the finished article from America before the war; and will he now, in order to save dollars, allow them to import the raw materials from the soft currency countries of Norway and Sweden and manufacture the finished article in this country?

Yes, Sir. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we are not now importing the finished article from the United States or from anywhere else. The imports we already get of tissue for this purpose are sufficient to cover our requirements.

But do they come from a soft currency or a hard currency area?

asked the President of the Board of Trade what quantities of silk stockings have been imported from the Argentine; and at what cost.

Apart from passengers' baggage, the only imports during the first nine months of this year have been 125 dozen pairs valued at £1,097 against import licences issued on compassionate grounds to a British subject returning to this country. No payment of foreign exchange was involved.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how much railway bridging has been exported to Poland as a free gift during 1946 and up to the present date; and what other material has been made available to Poland in the same way.

As regards the first part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Louth (Mr. Osborne) on 3rd November. As regards the second part of the Question, I understand from the Departments concerned that other material made available to Poland as a free gift to the approximate value of half a million pounds, included a considerable quantity of greatcoats and battledress, smaller quantities of underclothing, kitchen utensils and hand tools and a few mobile kitchens and mobile refrigerating units—all out of surplus military stores.

What precisely did we get in return?

Most of this was supplied as part of a rehabilitation agreement with the Polish Government at the end of the war, but, of course, arising out of this and in part return for other surplus military stores which have been shipped to Poland since, we have had a trade agreement with Poland of considerable value to this country.

Will the Minister make certain that these articles which go to Poland are utilised by the Poles and not by the Russians?

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to reorganise the making and distribution of British films in Britain; and whether a decision has been come to as to the appointment of a Controller.

No, Sir.

Will the Minister say whether it is intended to reorganise or nationalise the film industry; further, is it proposed to take on a gentleman called Giudice as the "Commissar for films" and, if so, what are his qualifications?

I have already said that it is not the intention to do what the hon. Gentleman has in mind. If it were, and if we were going to appoint anyone in any capacity—I have not heard the word "commissar" used at any time—we should appoint the best man for the job.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what advice he is giving to industries, which will now change over to production for export, as to the kinds and types of goods and commodities which will find a ready market abroad.

There is no general advice which can be given to industries or firms on the type of goods which will sell abroad. This must be a matter of individual choice, and is partly determined by the firm's manufacturing capacity. But firms can be helped in making their choice by the supply of information about the general classes of goods in demand in each overseas country, the existence of barriers to sale such as import restrictions and the names of potential purchasers. Much of this information is published by my Department in the "Board of Trade Journal" and otherwise, but the best guidance can be given in interviews with representatives of individual firms, who should approach the regional export officers of my Department in the first instance.

Is the Minister satisfied that he gets any changes in the areas in which goods can be sold sufficiently rapidly?

Yes, Sir. "I think that in general we get very quick information, but we are going into the whole question of the information we get from overseas and its propagation among industrialists in this country.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that the information which his Department is making available is, in fact, being used to its fullest possible extent?

I would like to see much more use made of the facilities we provide for exporters, both in London and in the Provinces.

Is the Minister aware that there have been certain complaints that this information cannot be got from his Department and that people have been referred to private sources of information?

I would like to have details of any such complaint.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how much ice cream manufacturing machinery has been imported to this country from the United States of America during the year ending 30th June, 1947; and to how many firms were import licences granted during this period.

No information as to actual imports is available, as ice cream manufacturing machinery is not separately distinguished in the Trade Accounts. Import licences for this class of machinery from the U.S.A. were granted to three firms during the 12 months ended June last, to a total value of £5,330.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will arrange for a full public inquiry into the allocation of the Grantham factories; and that authority be given to send for all the files, secret reports, persons and papers.

No, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if an investigation was made it would result in an indictment against two previous Presidents of the Board of Trade; and that it would reveal an attempt at aristocratic blackmail and the fact that guns were sold to both sides?

Imputations and insinuations are out of Order at Question Time.

In this case, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that they are justified, and in view of that statement, will my right hon. Friend consider having an investigation made?

The hon. Member has continued his imputations and insinuations. I direct that no answer be given.

As these imputations have been made, is it not desirable from every point of view that there should be an inquiry to see whether there is justification or not?

This matter was very fully debated in the House on 30th July last. My hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary made a full statement of the history of this allocation, and I am satisfied that no further inquiry is called for.

In view of the serious statement—

Apart altogether from the accusation made today, is not the President of the Board of Trade aware that there is very grave suspicion as to what has happened in connection with this factory, and would he not accept the proposition and hold an inquiry to clear up the matter?

No, Sir. The matter has been very fully debated and I do not see any reason for reopening this question. The factories in question are about to be reallocated and I think it might be left at that.

On a point of Order. The hon. Member for Stoke (Mr. Ellis Smith) has made a serious charge against two former Presidents of the Board of Trade—one of them being the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Aldershot (Mr. Lyttelton). Should he not withdraw that?

You, Mr. Speaker, and hon. Members of this House know me sufficiently well to know that a statement of that character would not be made unless there is justification for making it.

That is really making the matter worse. I have protested against imputations and insinuations against Precedents of the Board of Trade in this Government or another. They ought not to be made. We did debate this matter, and, although it may have been left unsatisfactorily, from the point of view of many hon. Members, it was debated. I do not think the matter should be raised again by imputations and insinuations.

In view of your position, Mr. Speaker, I respect that, but, at the same time—

Withdraw.

All I am asking for is a full public inquiry, and on the results of that inquiry I am prepared to stand. I also remember that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Aldershot (Mr. Lyttelton), in that Debate, did make imputations against other people who could not be present.

I should like to know where we are, Sir. Imputations have been made against former Presidents of the Board of Trade. I do not know whether they apply to this side of the House or to that side, but they have not been withdrawn. I have no doubt of the sincerity of the hon. Member who made them, but there are only two choices—either the imputations must be investigated or they must be withdrawn.

Answer.

I have already said that this matter has been fully debated, and, if I remember rightly, there was a Division, though my memory may be at fault. Certainly, I do not consider there is any case for further inquiry at this time.

There must be a case.

If there is to be another Debate about Presidents of the Board of Trade, I think the hon. Member ought to withdraw his imputations and insinuations. I rather thought that he was prepared to do that, and I think it is the proper way.

On a point of Order. Is there not a difference between a Debate in this House and an inquiry? A Debate in this House consists of respective points of view being put forward by speakers. I do not know what my hon. Friend has in mind, but I suggest that the House should bear in mind—with due respect to you, Mr. Speaker—that an inquiry and a Debate are two entirely different things.

The only other course, of Course, is for the hon. Member to put down a substantive Motion, putting on paper the charges which he makes against former Presidents of the Board of Trade.

Am I not right when I say that, although an hon. Member may be out of Order in making insinuations at Question Time, there is nothing unparliamentary in the remarks which he has made?

In view of the need to maintain respect for the Chair, in particular, I am quite prepared to withdraw, but, at the same time, I think a full public inquiry should be held.

Hear, hear.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will increase the supply of men's shirts to shops in Nor wich and the towns in Norfolk.

I have no evidence that supplies to Norfolk shops are below the general level. Increased supplies are dependent on an increased output of cloth.

asked the President of the Board of Trade why the allowance of 7s. 6d. per ton of concentrated kitchen waste offered to local authorities for the period October, 1947, September, 1948, in the Board's Salvage Circular No. 130, is limited to those authorities producing less than 7,000 tons of such waste per year.

In view of the increase, in production costs, and the continued stabilisation of the selling price of concentrated kitchen waste, the allowance of 7s. 6d. per ton will be made to those local authorities with concentrator plants of limited capacity to enable them to operate, on the average, on a reasonably economic basis. The plants with a larger output are still able to operate, on the average, at a good profit, so that in their case financial assistance from Government funds is not justified. The annual production referred to is a convenient and workable dividing line.

May I ask the President of the Board of Trade whether it would not have been more advantageous to offer subsidies on a regulated scale for maximum production of kitchen waste, rather than to offer them for limited production, and so minimise the incentive of local authorities to collect salvage?

I do not think the incentive is minimised, and I am satisfied that those local authorities which can operate on a considerable scale find it well worth their while to do so.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many men have been allowed additional coupons for dress suits during each of the years 1945, 1946, 1947, respectively, and the four principal occupations of those who have received additional coupons.

None, Sir, but coupons have been given for stage and screen productions, and waiters are eligible for the Industrial Ten.

asked the President of the Board of Trade for what purposes additional coupons have been allowed for women in the years 1945, 1946 and 1947, respectively, and the three principal occupations of those who have received additional coupons.

Additional coupons are given to expectant mothers and to the women's uniformed Services. Women are also eligible for the Industrial Ten.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how much coal he estimates will be saved during the winter by the ban on the lighting of cinema organ consoles.

This is one of many voluntary economies proposed by the Cinematographic Exhibitors' Association of Great Britain and Ireland which exhibitors all over the country are to make during the winter months. No separate estimate, in terms of coal, has been made of the savings expected from this particular economy.

Is it the case that there is no statutory prohibition of such lighting?

It is purely voluntary.

Whatever the case for making these instruments invisible, is there not a stronger case for making them inaudible?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power by how many tons United Kingdom stocks of oil and petroleum products have increased or decreased in the last 12 months.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what are the present stocks of petrol in the United Kingdom.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how much petrol is there in this country; and how many months' supply does that represent at current consumption.

As the House knows, successive Governments have always refused on defence grounds to disclose the amount of stocks of petroleum held at any given time in this country, and I regret, therefore, that I cannot give the information desired by the hon. Members.

Does the Minister realise that I am not asking for stocks, but only for the changes in stocks, which is a very different thing, and could he not make that information available?

For the same reason—objections on defence grounds—I must withhold the information.

Does not the Minister think it is unreasonable to withhold this information under present conditions and, in view of the concern which has been raised in the country by the decision to abolish the basic petrol ration, are not the public entitled to have all the facts in regard to the stock position?

This is, of course, a question of balance. It is, I agree, desirable to keep the country as fully informed on these matters as possible, but I must also ask the House to appreciate that there are defence considerations in this matter, even in respect of the trend of petrol stocks, and these considerations, in the view of the Government, are in this case paramount.

If the Minister cannot give these figures to the House, may I ask if he can have a Press conference and give them to the T.U.C.?

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman how he reconciles his statement that he cannot give these figures on the grounds of defence with the fact that the composition and strength of the Fleet has already been given in this House? Is there not some lack of coordination on defence grounds between his Ministry and the Defence Ministry?

There is no lack of coordination. As I said earlier, this is a matter on which successive Governments have always taken the same view, as the right hon. Gentleman opposite should know, even before the war—the view that it would be unwise to disclose either the trend or the actual amount of petrol stocks.

I think we all understand the defence issue in this matter, but I am not pressing the Government to give the total figure. I am asking the right hon. Gentleman how in the world, if the total figure is unknown, he can say that information about increases or decreases could possibly give the enemy any information at all?

Who is the enemy?

The Government are refusing to give the information. Perhaps there is somebody to whom they do not want to make the information available. I am agreeing with the Government. All I am asking is, how can this differential figure make the slightest difference to anybody, and whether it will not help the country to understand the position?

The right hon. Gentleman, in his time, has been Secretary of State for War, and he will be perfectly well aware that it is of great interest to foreign countries even to know the trends in matters of this kind. It may be that information which is available to them would, in itself, be of no particular value, but if we were to add to it by making further information public, it would have very considerable significance.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what he estimates the saving in dollars will be by the discontinuance of the basic ration for petrol; and what percentage of saving it will bear in relation to our total estimated trade deficit.

As I have already informed the House, the estimated dollar saving is £7,500,000 at prices ruling when the decisions were taken. At present prices, which have risen, the saving is estimated at about £9 million. On the basis of this latter figure, the saving represents, approximately, 2 per cent. of our current total dollar deficit.

Is the Minister aware that there are large numbers of ex-Service men who have commenced small businesses up and down the country which are directly and indirectly dependent upon the motor industry; and, in view of their-frustration and alarm at what has taken place, will the Minister say what he proposes to do to save these men from chaos and ruin?

Naturally, the Government regret any hardship that may have been caused by this decision, and they fully appreciate that there may be hardship in individual cases, but the overriding need of the dollar situation is such' that I am quite unable to reverse the decision taken.

Will my right hon. Friend say how he arrives at the net saving, in view of the fact that very large numbers of supplementaries have been promised; and could he say what the actual saving in dollars would be?

I gave the explanation on that point in my speech the other night. We estimate that the gross saving on the basic ration is 960,000 tons. We shall have to provide something like another 160,000 tons for additional supplementary rations. That gives us a net saving of 800,000 tons, which is equivalent, in value, to the figures I have given.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House how he arrives at the figure of 160,00 tons in view of the fact that his offices are still dealing in thousands with these supplementary applications; does it mean that they have been considered in advance, without their merits being taken into account at all?

They are estimates based on our experience since the abolition of the basic ration.

Will the Minister say whether the saving he has just described does not amount to about 4 per cent. of the total output of Abadan, and does not the way out of the difficulty lie in that direction?

I dealt with the matter very fully the other night, and there is another Question on the Order Paper dealing with it.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what is his policy in regard to the use of petrol for attendance at agricultural shows.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether special petrol allowance will be made available in the interests of Agriculture for attending Agricultural Shows.

Regional petroleum officers are authorised to grant petrol allowances to farmers and others engaged in agricultural work for travelling by private car or motorcycle to agricultural shows where the use of public transport for the journey is impracticable. Allowances for this purpose are also authorised in the case of officials and others responsible for the organisation of these shows. I am afraid I cannot grant allowances of petrol to the general public for this purpose.

Will the Minister say whether that includes the transport of horses and exhibitors for the purpose of giving jumping exhibitions and other shows, and whether, in view of the fact that petrol is probably being granted to 80 per cent. of the people who want to go to agricultural shows, it would not have been better to have left us with the basic ration?

So far as I am aware, the categories mentioned by the hon. Member in the first part of his question are covered by the statement I have made. I have already explained that I cannot go back on the decision.

Will the Minister say whether he has, in fact, received the communication I sent him, and whether there is any possibility of his considering an extra ration of petrol for the public for what one may call the "great" agricultural shows, because there is a certain degree of difference between the two?

I am afraid that I cannot add anything to the statement I have made. To distinguish between one show and another would not be an easy task.

Will the Minister instruct his regional officers to allow the applications of such organisations as the Young Farmers' Club, many of which have their meetings and their members within towns?

There is a Question on the Order Paper about that very matter.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what alteration has been made in the grant of petrol allowances to military and civilian personnel on leave from overseas.

As part of the economies in the use of petrol made necessary by our balance of payments position, it has been decided that the special petrol allowances which have been granted to Service personnel and British civilians on leave in this country must be discontinued. In order to enable due notice to be given to those concerned, allowances will continue to be issued up to 30th November, the coupons being marked valid for use until 31st December, 1947, or the date of expiry of the leave, whichever is earlier.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is the amount of the saving he expects to obtain from this blow to a great many people who serve in the public interest?

No, Sir. But I must point out to the House that we are in a very serious economic position, and that it is necessary to secure every economy. We have, despite great opposition—and very natural opposition—decided to abolish the basic ration. These allow ances were given in very different circum stances, for officers returning from active service—

Why only officers?

and for civilians who returned on leave after being absent from this country for many years, and I do not think that there is a reasonable case for maintaining them in present circumstances.

May I suggest that those who bring their cars from overseas should get a petrol allowance from the port of disembarkation to their own homes?

A man bringing a car home with him is entitled to an allowance for that purpose.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many Britishers work for his country in bad climates and come to this country on leave; and will he consider placing them in the same position as Americans or any other foreigners who come here on leave?

They can take a bus.

On a point of Order. May I have an answer to my supplementary question?

Will my right hon. Friend say whether he intends to notify Government Departments that we are in a serious economic position?

On a point of Order. In view of the right hon. Gentleman's failure to justify this decision, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power, whether he is satisfied that it is impossible to obtain sufficient extra petrol from the sterling areas to enable the basic ration to be maintained.

As I explained to the House on 29th October, the motor spirit produced by British controlled companies is appreciably less than the requirements of the sterling area as a whole. To divert additional supplies to the United Kingdom would, therefore, mean higher dollar expenditure on oil by other parts of the sterling area and would, therefore, produce no net saving in dollars for the area as a whole.

If I put a Question down, will my right hon. Friend tell us what the requirements are in the sterling area?

Certainly.

May I ask whether any other countries in the sterling area are cutting out their basic ration, or are we carrying the whole burden of these cuts?

I would like to have notice of that question, but I must point out that we do not directly control the internal affairs of other countries.

Why is it that a year ago we were importing 25. per cent. of our petrol from Iran and; paying for it in sterling, and now we are importing only 3.7 per cent., while we get 62 per cent. from the dollar areas? It seems extraordinary.

I would prefer to see the question on the Order Paper, but I must point out that these decisions rest very largely on the tanker position and that is probably the explanation.

Did the right hon. Gentleman have any consultation with other Governments in the Dominions before this decision was taken here?

As far as I know, it is not the custom of His Majesty's Government to reveal their consultations—[HON, MEMBERS: "Oh."]—or the contents of their discussions with other Governments. I was going on to point out that as the hon. Gentleman is aware, there have been discussions very recently with the sterling area countries, on how to secure the maxi mum economy in dollars. Whether or not precisely this matter was discussed, I am afraid I do not know.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether, in view of the widespread resentment amongst the public, the disastrous effect on small garages and petrol stations and the chaotic conditions it will impose on public transport, he will reconsider his decision to abolish the basic petrol ration.

No, Sir. While appreciating the inconvenience and even hardship which, in individual cases, the abolition of the basic ration may involve, I regret that for the reasons I gave in the Debate on 29th October, I cannot reconsider this decision.

Is it then the considered opinion of His Majesty's Government that the saving of a few million pounds' worth of dollars is adequate compensation for disrupting the whole social and industrial life in the country?

I would not accept the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. I have pointed out before that we cannot fairly use the argument that it is only a little amount. That could be applied to every saving that we make in dollars in every sphere, and if we followed the course suggested by the hon. Member we should never achieve a balance of payments.

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask you, for my guidance, kindly to let me know how many times a week over the next few months it will be permissible to repeat the Debate we had on this subject last week?

That is not a point of Order. If Questions are submitted which have already been answered, they are not accepted at the Table. If a Question raises a new point it is in Order to ask that Question, and if supplementaries get too wide I do my best to control them.

Are we to understand, Mr. Speaker, that there is no Question on the Order Paper today which does not repeat a point that was answered last week?

They may have repeated a point, but I feel sure they are in Order, because otherwise they would not have got through on to the Order Paper.

Does the Minister regard it as profitable to destroy what is estimated as £300 million worth of business for the sake of £7 million worth of petrol?

The hon. Gentleman has a Question on that matter on the Order Paper. I do not accept that estimate, but I must tell the House that it would be impossible to achieve a balance of payments without somewhat affecting the turnover of those who supply goods and services which, in present circumstances, cannot be regarded as essential in the home market.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what will be the dollar saving of the basic petrol cut after the granting of supplementary and other coupons.

When the decision to abolish the basic ration was taken, it was estimated that after allowing for additional supplementary allowances there would be a saving in dollars equivalent to approximately £7½ million a year. Since then world petrol prices have risen and the saving should amount to £9 million a year if prices continue at their present level.

While the Minister will, no doubt, appreciate that this Question was on the Order Paper before last week's Debate, may I ask him whether his original estimate has, in fact, been substantiated after the many claims put forward?

It would be much too early to say whether the estimate will or will not prove to be accurate. We must wait and see.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say if, in computing these figures, he has taken into account the great loss of dollars arising from the harm done to the export drive of goods from this country as a result of the basic cut?

I could not for one moment accept that any harm will be done to the export drive of this country.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if motorcars used by Government Departments, other than Service Departments, will be subject to a reduction in petrol allowance after 30th September; and, whether similar reductions will be applied to the motorcars used by the National Coal Board and other nationalised industries.

Yes, Sir.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what saving the National Coal Board will effect, and if he is aware that this is the first time that the Minister of Fuel and Power has accepted responsibility for any actions of the Coal Board?

It is not a question of accepting responsibility for the National Coal Board; but a question of accepting responsibility for allowances to the National Coal Board. The National Coal Board are treated in this matter in precisely the same way as any other business firm.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether local fuel overseers have any authority over premises occupied by Government Departments.

No, Sir. The Coal Distribution Order, 1943, under which local fuel overseers are appointed, does not bind the Crown, and premises in Government occupation are not, therefore, subject to their authority. Comprehensive arrangements have, however, been made to secure economy in fuel consumption by Government Departments. As my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works has recently stated, there was a saving in the main Government offices of 15.75 per cent. in the first quarter of 1947, compared with the corresponding period in 1946.