asked the Secretary of State for War to state the account given at the Army court of inquiry by 2nd/Lt. Marler who was an eye witness of the circumstances in which Lt. Burke was killed on the Austro-Yugoslav frontier.

The proceedings of the court of inquiry have just been received, but I have not yet had time to study them. When I have done so, I will write to the hon. Member. It is, however, not the practice to disclose evidence given at an Army court of inquiry.

Would the hon. Gentleman consider putting the letter which he would otherwise have written to me in HANSARD so that everybody can see the result?

I will consider that, but I should not like to commit myself definitely until I have had time to consider the report of the court of inquiry.

asked the Secretary of State for War why the British Military Administration in the Keren-Agordat district of Eritrea have removed the collection of native tribute from chiefs of tribes and have confided the collection to the agents of a political party, the recently formed Muslim League; and whether he will give instructions for the collection to be effected under non-party auspices.

In this district collection of tax among some of the feudally organised tribes was formerly carried out by the tribal chiefs. This system led to abuse, and as a result of protests from the tribesmen the British Military Administration decided to collect the tax direct. Collection is not in the hands of agents of the Muslim League or any other political body.

Is there no discrimination against the interests of the native chiefs? Is my hon. Friend satisfied that no political influence is exercised in the collection?

We have no evidence which leads us to suppose that there is any political discrimination. The change was made in response to protests from the tribesmen.

asked the Secretary of State for War why the Arab Legion did not leave Palestine before the termination of the Mandate, in accordance with the policy of His Majesty's Government.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for East Aberdeen (Mr. Boothby) yesterday.

Yes, Sir, but a week or two ago the Minister himself answered that all the forces of the Arab Legion would be out of Palestine by 15th May. Is it not the case that the forces of the Arab Legion are involved in battle in Palestine?

We had every reason to believe that the forces of the Arab Legion would be out of Palestine before the termination of the Mandate. As was pointed out in the answer yesterday, we are still not certain of the position with regard to one company. As to what has happened since the termination of the Mandate, that is, of course, another matter.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the interval was 24 hours or 48 hours between the withdrawal of the Arab Legion from Palestine to Transjordan and the re-crossing by the Arab Legion of the Jordan from Transjordan to Palestine?

With regard to the whole of the Arab Legion except one company, we carried out the undertaking which was given that it would leave Palestine before the termination of the Mandate. With regard to one company, we are still uncertain whether it did in fact cross the frontier, and, if so, at what date.

I think my hon. Friend did not hear my question. I have not questioned that the Arab Legion did in fact leave, according to the letter of the promise, by 15th May. Is it not a fact that they were back in Palestine on the 16th?

What they have done in Palestine since the termination of the Mandate is not our responsibility.

rose —

We had better get on.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether the Arab Legion is still under the command of the British commander in Palestine.

No, Sir. The Arab Legion ceased to be under the command of the General Officer Commanding, Palestine, on the termination of the Mandate.

But was it not the case that the British Commander in Palestine had the responsibility for the Arab Legion; and by what particular terms did that responsibility end on 14th May?

It ended in consequence of the termination of the Mandate.

Does my hon. Friend say that an undertaking given to to this House that the Legion would leave by the 15th is fulfilled when the British commander in Palestine allows the Legion to come back again on the 16th?

It is not a question of allowing the Legion to return. It ceased to be under his command. I think it was perfectly clear to the House when the original undertaking was given that that would be the legal and practical situation.

It is very unsatisfactory.

asked the Secretary of State for War why, having lost two gold watches valued at £200, belonging to Dr. Karel Koenig, who was sent to Australia in s.s. "Dunera," his Department offered only £10, increased to £40, compensation; and why, notwithstanding repeated requests on behalf of Dr. Koenig during eight years, investigations have not yet been completed.

I regret that on the evidence available I am unable to accept Dr. Koenig's valuation of £200 for the two watches, and I consider that the offer of £40, which was made in 1945 and is still open, is by no means unreasonable.

Does the hon. Gentleman suggest that it is possible to buy two gold watches for £40, and is not this haggling unworthy of His Majesty's Government.

On the evidence that has been supplied to us as to the value of these watches, I think we have made a reasonable offer. We made it three years ago and it is still open.

Is it disputed that these were two gold watches and, if so, how can the hon. Gentleman possibly contend that they were worth only £40?

No trace of the watches can be found. We have had to accept Doctor Koenig's statements as to the nature of the watches, but he really has not produced any evidence to suggest that they were worth £200 and, indeed, some of the evidence we have had from him suggests that they were worth decidedly less than that.

Will my hon. Friend continue to exercise the utmost economy with the taxpayers' money? In this regard, is he aware that it is quite possible to obtain two gold watches for the sum mentioned?

I have never attempted to obtain gold watches.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that two days before Egyptian forces began to invade Palestine, the Army authorities at Fayid put nearly £2,000,000 worth of their military stocks at the disposal of Egypt; and what action is being taken to ensure that such occurrences will not happen so long as Egyptian forces are conducting hostile operations outside their own territory and not in self-defence.

My hon. Friend appears to have been misinformed. The only equipment released by G.H.Q. M.E.L.F. to the Egyptians about the time referred to in the Question was twelve tractors issued on 12th May.

Even if it is only a small quantity of equipment, will my hon. Friend make inquiries to see whether any military equipment was issued at any time on the eve of the invasion of Palestine?

The answer I have given shows that we have already made inquiries which resulted in the discovery of the fact that 12 tractors were issued on 12th May.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he has considered the letter of the hon. and gallant Member for Macclesfield regarding the granting by the Angleton Rural District Council of facilities for their employees to attend Territorial Army camps in the Summer months; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend regrets that there was an error in this respect. The reply which he gave to a Question by the hon. Member for Twickenham (Mr. Keeling) on 11th May should have referred not to the Congleton Rural District Council, but to the Congleton Borough Council. The Congleton Rural District Council have stated that they will be pleased to give favourable consideration regarding leave with pay to applications from any employees wishing to attend annual camps. The Congleton Borough Council passed a resolution last October to the effect that no extra leave or pay would be given to their employees for Territorial Army camps. I am glad to learn, however, that they have since decided that they will consider applications from their employees on their merits.

Can the hon. Gentleman say why he brought in this matter by saying that the Congleton Borough Council refused, when in actual fact in February they did agree, and will he say who misinformed his right hon. Friend on this matter? Further, will he ask his right hon. Friend in future to take more care when criticising local authorities?

The matter was brought in in response to a question in this House. The reply was based on information obtained from the Cheshire Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Association, but I much regret the distress it must have caused to the local authority in question.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he will make a statement comparing the current rates of pay and allowances of selected ranks with their equivalents in civilian industry; and in particular whether he will show a comparison between the pay received by skilled technicians in the Army and the same type of skilled technicians in civilian industry.

I would refer the hon. Member to Appendices I and II of Army Estimates which contain details of rates of pay and allowances for all ranks. As stated in paragraph 8 of Cmd. 6715, it is not possible to establish any close correspondence between Service and civilian remuneration if only for the reasons that the soldier receives much of his remuneration in kind rather than in cash and there are special arrangements for married men which have no counterpart in industry.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the Command Paper, only three paragraphs after the one he has quoted, an attempt was made to compare civilian rates of wages with Army pay, and indeed that attempts have been made to suggest that the justification for the rates of pay adopted was based largely on the figures there given? Is he not further aware that the figures of civilian wages given in this Command Paper are not correct for today, and in fact are much below the present rates of wages?

Of course, I am aware that there have been some changes in civilian wages since that date, but although the comparison was made in the White Paper it was pointed out that this could only be a comparison in general terms.

Would my hon. Friend consider making a similar comparison with 1939, when they paid me 14 bob a week, knocked seven bob off for the missus, one bob off for debts, and made me salute twice for the balance?

asked the Secretary of State for War how many married quarters are now under construction in the United Kingdom for officers and other ranks, respectively; and how many have been completed since 31st March, 1948.

Thirty-eight permanent married quarters for officers and 376 for other ranks are now under construction. In addition, work has started on a scheme for the conversion of approximately 1,000 huts into temporary married quarters for officers and other ranks. Thirty permanent married quarters for other ranks but none for officers have been completed since 31st March, 1948.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that the target which he set in his speech on 9th March of 600 married quarters being completed, and a further 700 to be started, is likely to be achieved on the figures given?

We hope to achieve that target, and perhaps I should add that in addition to new building we make other married quarters available by repairs, by the removal of irregular occupants, and other means.

With regard to the temporary accommodation which the hon. Gentleman said is being provided, is it because those camps are not likely to be permanently occupied, or is it because the War Office is not able to obtain the materials for building permanent quarters?

It is mainly because it offers the best and speediest solution of this difficulty.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what proportion of the figures he has given is in respect of work started in the last financial year and what in this?

Not without notice.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what he means by the words "irregular occupants"?

Somebody occupying the quarters who ought not to be doing so.

asked the Secretary of State for War if the parade of soldiers of the 1st Battalion, The Royal Scots, at Edinburgh on the occasion of the visit of the Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland was compulsory.

In accordance with normal practice, a guard of honour was ordered on the occasion of the formal opening of the Assembly.

Is the Minister aware that on 3rd May the Secretary of State for Scotland definitely assured us that all military display was to be eliminated on this occasion? How does he explain that, if the normal practice is being continued?

There was not in every respect a continuance of previous practice. The practice before the war was for the Lord High Commissioner to drive from Holyrood House with mounted escorts, and this was discontinued, but I take it that a guard of honour should be continued for the representatives of the King.

In any case, could not the vendetta against the Lord High Commissioner be now terminated, in view of the distinguished office he holds and the admirable way in which he carries it out?

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that families of Regular soldiers are experiencing great difficulties in obtaining accommodation at the expiry of the husbands' terms of service with the Colours; and if he will take steps to ensure that such families are advised by commanding officers to make early application to local authorities for what accommodation they will require on the husbands' discharge.

This problem was carefully considered by the War Office in consultation with the Ministry of Health, who issued a special leaflet and application form to enable Regular soldiers to apply for houses before the end of their service. Information about this arrangement was circulated to all units, so that all interested soldiers could familiarise themselves with the procedure.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that that may have happened in the past, but there are many soldiers who do not realise it now and that some are faced with the situation of having all their furniture with nowhere to put it? Will he see that the War Office do something to help?

I am aware of these difficulties. We have done our best to acquaint soldiers of the position and will do our best to help in that direction.

In these circumstances, are not the Government defending the principle of the tied cottage?

Are these the "irregular occupants," mentioned in another reply?

asked the Secretary of State for War when it is proposed to release the gun site on the south-west side of, and with access to and from, the North Circular Road, Walthamstow, E.17, which is needed by the Essex County Council for building a county technical school.

This site is an integral part of the anti-aircraft defences and I regret that it does not appear practicable to release it. The requirements of land for anti-aircraft defence are being considered by the Interdepartmental Committee on Services Land Requirements in conjunction with all interested authorities.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the children who would have gone to this school have been waiting for four years for a proper school in which they can be taught? Is not that more important for this nation's progress than that this obsolete gun site should be kept?

I cannot agree that it is obsolete. It is part of the anti-aircraft defences, which are difficult to lay out in a congested area like North-East London.

asked the Secretary of State for War the acreage of land in use by, or reserved to the use of, his Department in the City of Portsmouth; and whether, in view of the shortage of land within the city for industrial and commercial development, housing, education and open space, he can hold out any hope that portions of such land under his control can be released to civilian use.

About 1,000 acres of land within the boundaries of the City of Portsmouth are used by or reserved for the use of the War Department. There are also areas of land over which the War Department holds firing rights, the right to restrict building and certain other rights. I regret that there is little hope that it will be possible to release any of this land except possibly one area of four acres which is at present the subject of negotiation.

Will my hon. Friend undertake to keep his requirements in the city under review?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that a soldier who suffers from enuresis, and whose name has been communicated to him, is compelled to sleep in the guardroom; and what action he proposes to take to make other arrangements less likely to cause distress to the soldier and trouble to the military authorities.

This soldier is sleeping in the guard-room on medical recommendation as part of his treatment. The arrangements made are calculated to add considerably to his comfort and should not cause him or the military authorities any appreciable trouble.

Does my hon. Friend realise that this exposes the soldier to ridicule on the part of his comrades, and quite unnecessary mental distress? Would it not be better for the Army and for the man concerned if he were discharged?

I think the latter suggestion is one we should consider, but this illness frequently arises from habit and is curable by breaking the habit. It was largely on medical representation that this treatment was undertaken.

Will my hon. Friend say what medical treatment the man is undergoing.

I mean to imply that sleeping in the guard-room instead of in the barrack room is part of the treatment advised.

Why?

Is it not a fact that this man suffered from this disease for a considerable time before he came into the Army, and therefore it is in no sense due to sleeping in barracks?

asked the Secretary of State for War what is the procedure followed when an officer of the British Army, who has been seconded for service in the army of another Power, receives instructions to withdraw from that service; and if he is then under obligation to report to his original unit before service with His Majesty's Forces can be terminated.

The normal procedure would be for an officer to be ordered to join a specific British unit or depot. If an officer seconded for service with another Power wishes to resign his commission in the British Army, it is not necessary that he should first join a British unit. Until his resignation is accepted, however, he remains subject to British military law, and can be ordered to join a British unit.

Can my hon. Friend say whether these conditions were observed when recently British officers were seconded to the Arab forces and subsequently withdrawn?

Yes, Sir

asked the Secretary of State for War whether in those cases where prisoners of war are marrying British girls either before or after civilianisation, he will arrange for them to draw in sterling such proportion of their accumulated savings as will enable them to meet their wedding and other expenses connected therewith.

As promised in reply to a similar Question by my hon. Friend on 27th January last, his suggestion was carefully examined, but it was decided that the concession requested could not justifiably be granted. Under present arrangements payment of credit balances of all German prisoners of war is a German liability. To pay part of these balances in sterling would transfer some of the liability to the British taxpayer. I do not consider that the present arrangements should be altered to give German prisoners marrying British girls preferential treatment in this respect.

But will not my hon. Friend look at this matter again, if only because the sum of money involved is exceedingly small, and it seems invidious to allow men to marry and then to put them in a position of having to get their wives to pay for such things as wedding expenses?

It is a common thing on the other side.

I am reluctant to reject my hon. Friend's request, but this matter has already been carefully examined. The existing arrangement is in accordance with the reciprocal agreement and it has been made clear—I think rightly so—that we should not give preferential treatment to a German prisoner because he has decided to marry a British subject.

Would my hon. Friend, in this connection, re-examine the question of the dollar credit cheques which are in the possession of those prisoners who worked in America for a time, because the cashing of those cheques in sterling would not involve any extra expenditure to the taxpayer?

That is a somewhat different question, and I would be prepared to look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that German prisoners of war in the Middle East are employed as batmen to British women serving in that area; and if, as this is an embarrassment to the women, he proposes to take any steps to deal with the matter.

Twenty-one German prisoners of war have been employed as batmen in A.T.S. and civilian camps at Fayid during the last twelve months. Women servants cannot be employed in the desert. The prisoners of war will shortly be replaced on repatriation by local labour. I do not accept the implications in the last part of the Question.

Would my hon. Friend bear in mind not only the embarrassment to the women but the embarrassment, if that is the right word, to these wretched men?

I have already said that I do not accept the implications in the last part of the Question, nor do I consider that there is any embarrassment for me to bear in mind.

Is my hon. Friend aware that among the many intimate duties which these prisoners have to perform is that of serving morning cups of tea to these young women while they are still in bed, and that if they look too sad in the process they are reported, and if they look too happy in the process they are reported, too, and that in a situation where every prospect pleases it is difficult to achieve an in-between look?

We have had a report on this matter and it really does not bear out the suggestion that there is any difficulty of the kind described. Nor is there evidence that any German prisoner of war has been landed in disciplinary difficulties for this reason.

asked the Secretary of State for War on what grounds Sass Rudolf, Scaunas Haralambi and Boanca Dumitru, three Roumanian merchant seamen, are being detained as prisoners of war at Toft Hall Camp, Knutsford.

These men are only being held while their claims for repatriation to Roumania are being investigated by the Roumanian Government.

Can my hon. Friend give some indication to the House why people who were never serving soldiers, seamen or airmen are detained at this prisoner of war camp, under what clause of the Geneva Convention they are being detained, and when they are likely to be released?

These three men arrived in this country in company with other Axis prisoners of war. The Roumanian Legation were notified and asked to accept them for repatriation. We have endeavoured, but unfortunately without success, to find them employment. We hope it will be possible to arrange for their repatriation.

asked the Secretary of State for War why the prisoners of war in the International Camp, Toft Hall, Knutsford, have not been offered the same terms and conditions for remaining in this country as were offered at other camps.

The same opportunities for remaining in this country have been offered to prisoners of war at this camp as at other camps. Forty-two prisoners of war from the camp have been released to civilian status.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I have received a number of complaints from prisoners at this prisoner of war camp, that it is an international camp with a variety of languages, and that there appears to have been a complete misunderstanding. Will he now offer them the same opportunities as have been offered elsewhere?

The opportunity was open to these men if they accepted that they were liable to repatriation to Germany. If they were prepared to accept that, they could apply for civilianisation.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give those German prisoners-of-war who are classified "A," and who are employed in undermanned industries other than agriculture, the same opportunity to remain in this country as is given to prisoners-of-war who marry British women.

No, Sir. Except in agriculture this could not be done without prejudicing the opportunities for the employment of British, Polish and European volunteer workers.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at this matter again? There are only a very small number of these men now left in the country, and we ourselves regard them as worth-while types.

We have looked at this matter repeatedly, and on the information in our possession, we cannot change our decision.

asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning how many persons of insurable age were employed in local government service by town planning departments in England and Wales in 1947 and 1938.

The information asked for by my hon. Friend is not available.

asked the Minister of Town and Country Planning whether he can now say by what date it is proposed to hold the long promised public inquiry into the retention by the War Department of Braunton Burrows.

The requirements of the War Department in this area have not yet been finally determined, and I am not therefore in a position to say when a public local inquiry in the matter will be held.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the requirements of the War Department have now been awaited for two years in connection with these two areas? Will he urge the War Office to hurry the result of their inquiry, which has been going on for two years?

This is entirely a matter for the War Office.

asked the Minister of National Insurance when the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee on the insurance treatment of share fishermen will be available; and whether he is yet in a position to make a statement.

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether it is intended to include share fishermen in the employed class under the National Insurance Scheme.

My right hon. Friend recently received the Report of the National Insurance Advisory Committee, and copies will be available in the Vote Office today. The Committee have recommended that share fishermen should in general be included in the employed class subject to certain special conditions for unemployment benefit. My right hon. Friend has decided to accept these recommendations in principle, and is now considering with the other interested Departments the best means of giving effect to them in regulations.

Without having read these exact regulations, may I ask the Minister if, in fact, they carry out the spirit of the intention which the Minister of National Insurance has made amply apparent in the course of many replies over the last two and a half years?

Yes, I am very satisfied that they do what the hon. Member wishes.

When the Parliamentary Secretary said that the course has been adopted in principle, did he mean that the share fishermen will be allowed to contribute in the employed class from 5th July?

Yes, Sir, we intend to bring in provisional regulations which will enable them to do so.

While we are all very pleased that this Report is to be shown to us, if necessary on reading the Report, will it be possible to make further representations?

If the hon. Gentleman reads the Report, I think he will find it very satisfactory.

asked the Minister of National Insurance what arrangements have so far been completed with Commonwealth and other Governments for reciprocity in matters relating to National Insurance benefits; and with what countries are discussions now proceeding or contemplated.

Reciprocal arrangements have been made between the new schemes of National Insurance and Industrial Injuries Insurance in Great Britain and the corresponding schemes in Northern Ireland. Negotiations are now proceeding with Eire, France and the Isle of Man, and there have been preliminary discussions with Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other Commonwealth countries. My right hon. Friend hopes shortly to carry these discussions further, and also to approach the Governments of some other countries with whom a basis for reciprocity in social insurance may be found.

If a person goes overseas before the overseas country has a scheme in being, would arrangements be made for his insurance rights to be carried over in the meantime and not allowed to lapse?

That all depends on what reciprocity arrangements there may be.

How far has discussion gone with Australia and New Zealand, and are they likely to come to any immediate conclusion?

This is a highly technical subject and we are pressing on as fast as we can so far as these schemes are concerned. I am sorry I cannot add anything to what I have said in the answer.

Will they be likely to be completed this year?

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether his regulations provide that part-time canteen workers who are compelled to pay unemployment insurance contributions are able to draw unemployment benefit if they are available for work part-time.

The question of availability for work arising on a claim for unemployment benefit is one for determination by the independent statutory authorities. Generally speaking, a claimant must show that he is available for full-time work, but there are circumstances in which a part-time worker can satisfy the availability condition. Each case is considered on its merits. If my hon. Friend is aware of any particular case and will give me details, I will have inquiries made.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a considerable feeling of disappointment and unfairness on the part of some of these part-time canteen workers who have been informed by the Ministry of Labour that they would not be able to draw unemployment benefit, but who are still compelled to pay quite a considerable amount of contributions out of their small wages?

The question whether a person is entitled to unemployment benefit can only be decided by the statutory authorities when the claim is actually made. So far as the question itself is concerned, I hope my hon. Friend will take a broad view of this matter, because for many of these people, they being part-time employees, this is the only opportunity they have to qualify for pension, and I am sure that no hon. Member would want that right to be taken away from them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I am not talking now about the contributions under the new Insurance Scheme, but the contributions that they have paid to unemployment insurance, which have nothing to do with qualifying for pension?

The question of part-time employment and the particular type of work to which my hon. Friend refers is being considered at the moment by the National Insurance Advisory Committee. The fact is that many of these women are married women, and under the new scheme they will have the option whether they pay or not.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will tabulate the classification of trades registered as unemployed, signing at Merseyside employment exchanges at the latest available date.

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate the figures for

asked the Minister of Labour what were the figures of unemployed agricultural labourers registered at the employment exchanges in the Aunty of Norfolk at the latest convenient date.

Figures are not available for any date later than 15th March, when the number of unemployed men registered at employment exchanges in Norfolk for employment as agricultural workers was 233

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the case, details of which have been sent to him, in which a constituent who took his advice with a view to employment on the land, has not yet received a single offer; that April in the OFFICIAL REPORT, and send to my hon. Friend the May figure when extracted.

Could my right hon. Friend give me the number of building trade workers, both skilled and unskilled, registered in that list?

Building trade workers, 2,024.

Following is the reply :

the man concerned approached his local branch of the Ministry of Labour, war agriculture committees, and subscribed to farmers' journals all to no avail; and what steps he proposes to take with a view to making possible the transfer of suitable persons from non-essential industry to agriculture.

No, Sir. The particulars sent to me by the hon. Member were not sufficient to enable me to identify any application made by the person concerned to a local office of my Department. Now that I have details I have arranged for him to be interviewed, and I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as I receive a report.

asked the Minister of Labour if he has any information about the progress of discussion between the representatives of the employers' and workers' organisations in the baking industry on the abolition of night baking.

No, Sir, but I am in touch with the two sides on this question.

As this matter has been pending now for nearly two years, will the Minister do what he can to speed things up, as nothing but the abolition of night baking will solve the recruiting problem?

I cannot accept the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question. It is not for me to speed things up. The two parties are in negotiation, and I await their decision.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is able yet to announce a date upon which allowances will become payable to blind trainees, undergoing training in workshops for the blind.

The date from which it is proposed to bring into operation the new arrangements under which training allowances will be paid by my Deparment is 5th July.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to facilitate the employment of blind persons in industry and in other services.

My Department and other interested organisations have consistently advocated the employment of blind persons in open industry to the maximum possible extent. I think the time has come for a general review of what has been achieved and for a concerted effort to develop these arrangements. I have accordingly set up a Working Party

"to investigate the facilities existing for the employment of blind persons in industry and in public and other services, and to make recommendations for their development."

I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the names of the members of this Working Party and I would express my thanks to them for agreeing to undertake this task.

While I appreciate very much the right hon. Gentleman's answer, will he bear in mind that the real need is for facilities for training these persons, and that it is there that the bottleneck exists at the moment? Will he see that further steps are taken for the training of blind persons?

That is one particular feature of this investigation, because we have found from experience that many broadminded firms in this country take blind persons and train them in the work. In the long run a man trained on the job he is to do is the most suitable, and we are having on this Committee representatives of the firms who have had such experience.

The following are the members of the Working Party on the Employment of Blind Persons :

Chairman :

W. Taylor, Esq., C.B., (Under Secretary, Ministry of Labour and National Service).

Members :

Miss W. L. Adams, (Inspector of Welfare of the Blind, Ministry of Health);

Charles H. W. G. Anderson, Esq., B.Sc., (Principal, Royal Blind School, Craigmillar Park, Edinburgh);

W. G. Askew, Esq., O.B.E., (Secretary, St. Dunstan's);

W. McG. Eagar, Esq., C.B.E., M.A., (Secretary-General, National Institute for the Blind);

T. H. Smith, Esq., (General Secretary, National League of the Blind);

R. L. Webster, Esq., (Personnel Manager, Messrs. Hoover Limited);

A. E. Wilson, Esq., (Blind worker engaged on administrative duties).

Secretary :

Mrs. G. D. Stuart, (Ministry of Labour and National Service, Norfolk House, St. James's Square).

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why the grants, offered in January, under the scheme for the assistance of marginal agriculture production for 1948, were reduced on 15th April, 1948, by the North-Eastern Agricultural Executive Committee; by what amount they are being reduced and in what particulars; whether he is aware that farmers have carried out, or are proceeding with, much of this work in anticipation of receiving grants on the basis originally promised; and whether these reductions are local or apply to all classified marginal farms in Scotland.

The total amount of grants payable in this area is substantially the same as last year, and approximately the same number of applications has been admitted. The operations and their cost are, however, on a larger scale than could have been anticipated and this has reduced the grants to about 50 per cent. of what would have been payable on the expected scale of operations. The situation is peculiar to the North-Eastern Area.

Is the Minister aware that what has happened in Aberdeenshire and the North East is regarded as a complete breach of faith, and will he not reconsider the matter and make arrangements for these grants to be paid in full?

The matter cannot be reconsidered. It may be that farmers anticipated that more assistance would be given to them than has been given, but they had in fact carried out the operations when the applications were still outstanding.

Does not the Minister's answer indicate that the Government are penalising an area in Scotland where the response to the Government's appeal for food production is the greatest, and that, surely, is an absurd policy?

I do not think so. The Committee offered grants at about the same rates as operated in past years, particularly last year, and they expected that the response would not be very different from what it was a year ago. In fact, the response has been very much greater. The Committee have only a certain amount of money voted by this House at their disposal.

Is the Minister aware that this offer was made in the form of a definite percentage of the expense, and that the Committee are breaking faith with the farmers by not implementing their promise?

I would not blame the Committee in that way. This House has voted certain moneys towards this end. The Committee had to work within a certain amount of money. They anticipated they would be able to offer certain rates of assistance for specified operations, but at the end of the day the response was so great that they had to reduce the rates for specific operations. The total amount of money which is being paid this year is at least as great as last year.

If there was a mistake, was not the mistake made by the Committee, and if so, why should the consequences of that mistake be visited on the unfortunate farmers?

I do not admit that a mistake was made. I said that the Committee could not have anticipated that they would get such a response. The amount of grant cannot be definitely offered until we get the amount of the response.

Would my hon. Friend agree that if a certain amount of money is voted to a Committee and if the Committee appeals to farmers to give certain returns, and the response to the appeal has been so great that in effect it has halved the amount to be given, is there not a moral obligation on the Government to meet that situation? There is no argument against that.

In view of the most unsatisfactory answer, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the average period which elapses between an order for an artificial leg being placed with the suppliers at Roehampton and the leg being ready for wear; and what the effect on these delays will be of the assumption of responsibility by his Department for the supply of limbs under the National Health Service.

The time taken to supply artificial limbs in normal cases is about ten weeks. In individual cases the surgical condition of the amputation stump may involve a longer period. It is difficult to forecast the additional demand which will arise under the National Health Service, but so far as can be foreseen the demands on the contractors will be below their wartime production. I do not, therefore, anticipate that there will be undue delays.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there are cases in which it takes as long as five months to supply legs, and can he assure the House that the changes brought about by the National Health Service will not result in its being impossible to reduce these periods of delay.

I would not like to give any assurance, because it depends on the nature of the individual cases. I can assure my hon. Friend that the new responsibility will not add to any delay.

Will not the fact that the Government are setting up a virtual monopoly and removing competition greatly increase the amount of delay, because all effective competition will be done away with?

The hon. Member has entirely misread the facts of the situation.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will now give particulars of the Government plans for civil defence against air attack; how soon recruiting and training will begin; when legislation will be introduced; and whether our Allies and the Government of the United States are being consulted.

I am not yet in a position to give detailed answers to these questions, but I can assure the hon. Member that all aspects of the problem of civil defence are under examination and in particular that legislation for dealing with certain points is in course of preparation.

Would the Prime Minister say whether he is satisfied that the Home Office rather than the Ministry of Defence is the appropriate Department to direct civil defence, especially in view of the Army's share in it, to which Field-Marshal Montgomery referred on Saturday? Can the right hon. Gentleman also say whether any progress has been made in devising protection against radio-activity?

I should require to have notice of the second part of that supplementary question. In reply to the first part, it is the responsibility of the Home Office.

Will one of the duties of the newly-appointed Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster at £5,000 a year be to defend the country against gas attacks?

Was the speech made by Field-Marshal Montgomery on this subject at the weekend submitted to the Government before being made? May I further ask the Prime Minister whether there would be any need for air-raid precautions if we were not preparing, or other nations did not believe that we were preparing, to drop atomic bombs on them?

So far as the training side is concerned, has a decision yet been reached as to whether or not the training is to be of a select few specialists or nation-wide?

I would rather have a Question about any details put on the Order Paper.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will publish a list of sub-committees appointed by the Committee on Industrial Productivity, giving the terms of reference of each subcommittee, and the names and qualifications of the chairmen and members.

I have been asked to reply. Yes, Sir. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT the terms of reference of each of the four Panels of the Committee on Industrial Productivity, the formation of which my right hon. Friend announced on 18th December last, together with the names and qualifications of the chairmen and members.

Are any further sub-committees or panels, being considered?

There are a number of working groups but no formal panels.

Can the details of the working groups be published as well?

I will ask my right hon. Friend about that.

Following is the information:

COMMITTEEE ON INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTIVITY

1. PANEL ON TECHNOLOGY AND OPERATIONAL RESEARCH

Chairman : Sir William Stanier.

Mr. G. B. Blaker: Treasury (Economic Affairs).

Mr. S. A. ff. Dakin: Board of Trade.

Mr. J. Davidson Pratt: Association of British Chemical Manufacturers.

Dr. C. Gordon: Board of Trade.

Dr. H. Hollings: Gas, Light & Coke Co.

Dr. P. Dunsheath: F.B.I.

Mr. L. H. C. Tippett: British Cotton Industry Research Association.

Professor Willis Jackson: London University.

Mr. J. R. Womersley: National Physical Laboratory.

Lieut.-General F. G. Wrisberg: Ministry of Supply.

Mr. E. P. Harries: T.U.C.

Mr. T. Williamson: T.U.C.

Professor T. U. Mathew: Birmingham University.

Joint Secretaries :

Dr. W. L. Francis: D.S.I.R.

Mr. E. D. T. Jourdain: Lord President's Office.

Terms of Reference :

To consider the part which the results of technical research can play in increasing industrial productivity and the means whereby technological improvements can best be applied; To define so far as may be practicable any human problems which may emerge from the foregoing study for remission to the Panel on Human Factors.

To review the principles and methods of operational research as applied to Industrial Productivity, in consultation with other Panels, to recommend how to encourage the spread of such techniques, and to advise on the initiating of special projects.

2. PANEL ON IMPORTS SUBSTITUTION

Chairman : Professor S. Zuckerman: University of Birmingham.

Mr. F. H. Braybrook: Shell Petroleum Co.

Mr. F. A. Burchardt: Oxford Institute of Statistics.

Mr. S. A. ff. Dakin: Board of Trade.

Mr. C. G. Eastwood: Colonial Office.

Dr. H. J. T. Ellingham: Royal Institute of Chemistry.

Major F. A. Freeth: I.C.I. Ltd.

Dr. C. Gordon: Board of Trade.

Mr. R. L. Hall: Economic Section, Cabinet Office.

Dr. R. P. Linstead: Chemical Research Laboratory.

Dr. J. L. Simonsen: Colonial Products Research Council.

Mr. F. W. Smith Central Economic Planning Staff.

Professor A. R. Todd: Cambridge University.

Dr. N. C. Wright Ministry of Food.

Joint Secretaries

Mr. J. L. Croome: Central Economic Planning Staff.

Mr. E. D. T. Jourdain: Lord President's Office.

Mr. A. L. Thorogood: Lord President's Office.

Terms of Reference

To review, in consultation with Departments, private and University research organisations, industrial research and trade associations, etc., the possibilities of reducing the demand for materials and other goods, which may be expected to be in short supply over the next few years or whose import might give rise to balance of payment problems; (a) by the use of substitutes; (b) by making better use of the waste products of agriculture and industry; (c) by the development of alternative sources; (d) by the more efficient use of materials, e.g. by modifying specifications and by avoiding waste; and to advise the Committee on Industrial Productivity as to problems requiring immediate attention, indicating, where possible, the priority with which they should be approached.

3. PANEL ON HUMAN FACTORS.

Chairman Sir George Schuster.

Mr. G. B. Blaker: Treasury (Economic Affairs).

Dr. C. B. Frisby: National Institute of Industrial Psychology.

Mr. L. Moss: Social Survey.

Mr. John Neill: F.B.I.

Mr. E. M. Nicholson: Lord President's Office.

Mr. J. Tanner: T.U C.

Mr. M. D. Tennant: Ministry of Labour & National Service.

Brigadier A. Torrie: War Office.

Dr. S. Wyatt: Medical Research Council.

Mr. L. O. Russell: British Institute of Management.

Dr. A. T. M. Wilson: Tavistock Institute of Human Relations.

Secretary : Mr. A. R. M. Murray: Lord President's Office.

Terms of Reference

To advise the Committee on Industrial Productivity regarding the directions in which productivity could be increased by the application of research into the human factors in industry; and to make recommendations for further researches in this field where called for.

4. PANEL ON TECHNICAL INFORMATION SERVICES

Chairman : Dr. A. King: Lord President's Office.

Dr. B. J. A. Bard: F.B.I.

Professor J. D. Bernal: London University.

Mr. O. F. Brown: D.S.I.R.

Sir Alfred Egerton: Secretary, Soryal Society.

Mr. B. Fullman: Aslib.

Mr. E. E. Haddon: Ministry of Supply.

Dr. J. E. Holmstrom: I.C.I. Ltd.

Sir Herbert Howard: Imperial Agricultural Bureaux.

Mr. B. G. Lane: Board of Trade.

Mr H. T. Pledge: Science Library.

Dr. W. E. Pretty: Admiralty.

Mr. H. D. B. Wood: Board of Trade.

Joint Secretaries

Mr. B. Agard Evans: Ministry of Works.

Mr. E. D. T. Jourdain: Lord President's Office.

Dr. D. J. Urquhart: D.S.I.R.

Terms of Reference :

To review existing information services for distributing scientific and technical information, to consider what improvements can be made to ensure a rapid and wide dissemination of such information to industry, and to make recommendations to the Committee accordingly.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is in a position now to make a statement as to the settlement of claims on behalf of British interests with the Yugoslav Government.