asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what recent reports he has received about the progress of the Mosquito extermination campaign in Cyprus.

Recent reports show that the extermination of anopheline mosquitoes in Cyprus should be substantially complete by the end of this year.

Could my hon. Friend say what steps he is taking to bring to the notice of other Colonial Governments the almost classical work performed by Mr. Azziz and his collaborators in this connection?

Publicity is given in all Colonies to anti-malarial work, and I will look into the special point raised by my hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what sentences have recently been imposed on the Mayor of Limassol, Cyprus; and what were the offences involved.

The mayor of Limassol was sentenced on 26th November to three months' imprisonment for taking part in an illegal procession. This was his eighth conviction under the Cyprus Assemblies, Meetings and Processions Law since 1943, and his third this year.

Does not the Minister consider it is making a farce of democracy if in Cyprus local elections are permitted whereby a mayor is elected, and then that mayor may not take part in a procession in his own town?

No, I think it is making democracy work; he had a permit for a meeting, but not for a procession.

Does the hon. Member know what is happening behind the Iron Curtain?

You worry about what you are doing.

Having regard to the responsibility of his office, is it not a fact that the Mayor of Limassol was treated very leniently in view of the criminal acts of which he was guilty?

May we have an assurance that he will not, in due course, be made Secretary of State for War?

Is not the hon. Member aware that the Mayor of Limassol is a far more extreme and militant Communist than the hon. Member who asked this Question?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what regulations exist at Hong Kong to check the character of those coming to the Colony from the mainland and to limit the total numbers admitted.

The provisions of the Immigration Ordinance apply to these people. The practical difficulties of enforcing these provisions are, of course, very great. The situation is under constant review.

Is the Minister aware that Hong Kong is at present very overcrowded, that food difficulties are arising and that fairly large numbers of undesirable people are apparently getting in? Is he satisfied that, in the event, let us say, of panic in Shanghai, the situation would not be reduced to complete chaos?

In reply to the first part of the Question, we are only too well aware of these conditions. As for the second part, I am not at all aware that there would be chaos in Hong Kong; in fact, we are doing everything we can to prevent such a contingency.

Would the Under-Secretary agree, in view of the fact that, on the last great wave of immigration into Hong Kong, there were great deficiences in medical and other services, that steps should be taken now, because conditions will certainly be worse in the next great wave?

We are looking into this question at the moment, and I hope the necessary steps will be taken.

Is it not the case that the latest figures from the Colony show that the number of immigrants into the Colony is less than the number of emigrants from the Colony? I am speaking of Chinese nationals.

That may be so, but I understood that the Question put to me referred to the possibility of a large influx from Shanghai or from other parts of China.

Could the Under-Secretary say what steps have been taken to provide the necessary services to prevent disease and pestilence if there is overcrowding?

We hope to avoid overcrowding; but the Governor is now looking into all these questions to see how far the conditions can be met, either by camps or otherwise.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many hospital beds in the Federation of Malaya and in Singapore have had to be closed owing to the shortage of nurses; and why the salary scale recommended by the Trusted Commission has not been implemented.

In the Federation, 318 beds have had to be closed. In Singapore no beds which had been opened since the liberation have had to be closed. The new salary scales have been implemented in all but a few cases which are in process of adjustment.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what can be done to get these beds reopened? Is it a question of a shortage of local nurses or a shortage of sisters recruited in this country?

I am told both.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if, in view of the increasing death roll of the Malayan police by ambushing on roads, he is satisfied that they have a sufficient number of armoured cards for patrol work.

A number of armoured cars for police use have already been delivered in Malaya, and others will be arriving shortly. The High Commissioner has not expressed any dissatisfaction at the position.

Can the hon. Gentleman say why it is that only now, six months after this insurrection has started and when policemen are being murdered on main roads, armoured cars appear to be sent out?

Armoured cars have been delivered, but most of the patrols in Malaya are infantry patrols on foot and not in armoured cars. As the hon. Gentleman knows only too well, the number of places in which one can use armoured cars is limited.

Does the hon. Gentleman deny the fact that during the past few weeks patrols and police on the main roads in Malaya have, in fact, been murdered? Surely, therefore, there must be a need for armoured cars on the main and side roads?

Most of the patrolling is done on foot. As to the number of armoured cars delivered and those still on order, we are assured by the authorities in Malaya that they are satisfied with the position.

Will the Minister publish a list of those in this country who have drawn big profits out of tin and rubber, and make them pay for the armoured cars?

Will the hon. Gentleman make the position clear? He said in one of his first replies that he had not had any further demand from the High Commissioner. That is not the same as being satisfied with the present position, and does not exonerate him from responsibility for seeing that armoured cars are made available?

How much are you getting out of it?

I did not say anything of the kind; the hon. Gentleman completely misrepresents me. What I said was that the High Commissioner had not expressed dissatisfaction.

Is it in Order, Mr. Speaker, for the hon. Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) to cry across the Floor of the House to my hon. Friend the Member for Bury (Mr. W. Fletcher), "How much are you getting out of it"?

If there is any personal allegation of that kind, it is certainly out of Order.

Further to that point of Order; may I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to instruct the hon. Member for West Fife to withdraw that remark?

Further to the point of Order. Is it not a fact that a number of Members in this House have shares in various concerns in the Colonies, and should they not declare their interest? Are we not entitled to know who has an interest in each Colony?

The hon. Member cannot make an allegation that another hon. Member is getting something out of orders placed by the Government. It is quite improper. I am sure the hon. Member cannot have meant to make that allegation.

If the hon. Member assures me that he has no financial interest in the Colonies, I withdraw the allegation, but not otherwise.

I hate qualified withdrawals. If the hon. Member had any interest, he would declare it. The hon. Member for West Fife must not make his withdrawal conditional. We must trust each other for honourable conduct, and, therefore, one should not withdraw a thing under qualifications. It should be withdrawn without qualifications.

I asked whether the hon. Member had an interest in this—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."] Quiet. I withdraw without any hesitation.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the plans now in process for the improvement of educational facilities for the people of the Federation of Malaya and Singapore.

My right hon. Friend is asking the High Commissioner for the Federation and the Governor of Singapore for up-to-date reports, and will write to the hon. Member as soon as he has their replies.

Is His Majesty's administration doing everything possible to promote education in the interests of peace in the Federation and the Colony?

We quite agree with the hon. Gentleman. Both the Federation and the Colony have approved a 10-year plan for universal elementary education for boys and girls.

Will not this excellent plan for education be severely handicapped if the heavy cost of maintaining troops to put down Communism is fastened upon Malaya?

That is another question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what specific applications he made to British universities, the Royal Geographical Society and British air survey firms before asking the American Economic Cooperation Administration to provide Americans to fill 50 vacancies in the topographical, geodetic and geological surveys in the Colonies; and in which newspapers and on what dates he advertised the vacancies.

As the reply is necessarily long, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the hon. Gentleman say why these positions are offered to Americans without any British scientists being offered the jobs, or even anybody in the British Commonwealth being given an opportunity of applying for them?

I am glad of this opportunity to say that there has been a complete misunderstanding. In fact, the widest publicity was given to the possibilities of employment, and the principal universities and the Ministry of Labour were approached. The representatives of the Royal Geographical Society knew all about it; and it appeared in Royal Air Force and Army Orders. In all ways we tried to get scientists. The engagement of American scientists, if it comes off—and as yet there has been no definite conclusion on that point—will not in any way interfere with the employment of British scientists.

Can the Under-Secretary of State deny that the Department of Geography at Cambridge, from which University the bulk of colonial surveyors have been obtained in the past, received no notice at all about these vacancies?

My information is to the contrary. I do not know about the department, but the University was certainly notified.

In view of the general misunderstanding among air survey firms and the complications of this problem, will the hon. Gentleman consider publishing a statement showing exactly what sort of advertisements were issued, to whom, and when?

My reply to the hon. Gentleman opposite gives a good deal of information together with a list of the newspapers and the dates on which the advertisements appeared, so I think the hon. Member's point has been met.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how much of the 25 million dollars voted by the Economic Co-operation Administration for British Colonial development is earmarked for the payment of United States specialists.

So far as I am aware, no such fund has been formally instituted. The second part of the Question does not therefore arise.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that of 20 students trained as surveyors at Cambridge University since the war only two have entered the Colonial Service; and whether he will improve the salaries and conditions offered to surveyors who have qualified at British universities or have retired from the Survey of India.

My right hon. Friend is, of course, aware of the need for attracting more trained surveyors into the Colonial Service. Salaries have only recently been greatly improved in East Africa and Malaya, and a further increase is now under consideration in West Africa.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that the terms offered to surveyors for West Africa are inadequate to attract them?

That is the whole point of the further consideration of that question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how soon the terms to be offered to Americans for survey work in the Colonies will be settled; and whether he will then renew his efforts to obtain British surveyors by offering the same terms for the same period.

I cannot say how long the discussions with the United States authorities will take. The second part of the Question accordingly does not yet arise.

Will the Under-Secretary of State publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the terms offered to American surveyors when they are settled?

?: I have no doubt that when the matter is settled the hon. Member or some other hon. Member will put down a Question.

I have asked it now.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will inform this House of the details of his campaign to make the people of this country more familiar with the social and economic life of the Colonial Empire, the scope of the appeal to universities and secondary schools to study the history, conditions and mode of life of colonial peoples, and if appropriate text books will be made available for teachers with this objective in view.

A series of films, booklets, picture-sets, maps and other other material about the Colonies is being produced by the Central Office of Information on behalf of the Colonial Office to stimulate public interest, especially in educational institutions. Details of this material, of lecture services and of other sources of information were recently published in a pamphlet, "Britain and the Colonies," which is on sale to the public and has been distributed to schools through local education authorities. A copy is in the Library. A Colonial Exhibition in London is planned for June next.

With regard to the third part of the Question, I understand from my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education that the selection and provision of text books is a matter for local education authorities and schools.

Is it the policy of the Colonial Office to use every possible means of bringing the mode of life and circumstances, political and economic, of the Colonial Empire before the people of this country?

We are trying to do so.

In connection with this plan, will the Under-Secretary consider the extended use of film strips, in view of the importance of visual education in this matter?

I am grateful to the hon. Member for that suggestion, which we shall consider.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that maps are essential for the development of the food and mineral resources of the Colonies; and whether he will consider employing British air survey companies in order to reduce the period of 10 years required for the completion of the colonial mapping programme.

My right hon. Friend is fully aware of the importance of maps for the purposes mentioned. He has already received a memorandum from the British air survey companies which is under examination.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these British survey companies employ 45 aircraft and over 1,000 people? Why should they not be employed by this Government when they are employed by the Governments of Canada, India and Australia?

The main reason is that we prefer, if possible, to employ the R.A.F. It is much cheaper. It is good training for the Air Force, and they are used to the particular class of work which is requited for the survey.

In view of the very limited amount of survey work which they can do, will the Under-Secretary see that any work above the capacity of the R.A.F. is put in the hands of British scientists and not American scientists?

The hon. Member will see from the reply to a question which will appear in HANSARD tomorrow—I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member was here or not—that actually the amount photographed is much greater than that which it has been possible to map. The delay, where there is delay—and there really is not a delay in this matter—is on the mapping side rather than the hotographing side.

Could my hon. Friend say whether there is any new policy in this matter, or are the Government simply continuing the practice which has always obtained?

We are continuing the practice laid down by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Bristol (Mr. Stanley).

Is it not a fact that the air survey companies also have mapping facilities and that they could help to remedy this bottleneck?

That is not the opinion of the Director of Colonial Surveys, Brigadier Hotine, who would rather have the whole thing under his control.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to what extent the geological survey of the Colonies is being delayed owing to the slow delivery of maps.

I do not agree that geological surveys are being delayed by shortage of maps. All geologists appointed to date are fully employed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many square miles of territory in the Colonies have been mapped during the last two years; and what proportion this is of the area photographed by the R.A.F.

About 380,000 square miles have been photographed and maps covering 25,000 square miles at various scales have been printed and published. Another 25,000 square miles have been mapped and are awaiting publication. Fifty-seven thousand square miles are at an advanced stage of compilation. The total amounts to about 30 per cent. of the area so far photographed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether in view of the Report of the Evans Commission that topographical maps are urgently required in British Guiana, he will review his programme for meeting the immediate survey requirements in that Colony.

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether criminal proceedings are being taken by the Gold Coast Government against those members of the United Gold Coast Convention against whom removal orders were made by the Governor in the interests of peace and good order.

No, Sir.

Will the Under-Secretary say what action the Government are taking in the interest of peace and good order?

Peace and good order are established in the Gold Coast, and the normal procedure of government is being followed.

Has any action been taken against those members against whom removal orders have been made, and have they been carried out?

The action taken during the emergency was of a preventive nature, and when the emergency finished the necessity for action of that kind also finished.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he can make a statement on the construction of the railway from the Tanganyika Central Railway to the lead mines at Uruwira; whether, in view of the recent reports that the prospects of large-scale mineral operations in this area seem unlikely, it is proposed to continue with the construction of the railway; and what amount has been spent on the railway up to date.

There is no indication at present that the estimated quantity of basic ore is less than that which was considered sufficient to justify the construction of the railway, which is proceeding. The whole question will, however, be considered by the Transport Advisory Council on 10th December in the light of the latest information. Expenditure on the construction of the branch line up to the end of July amounted to £121,785 and the estimated expenditure in August was £21,431.

Would it not have been very much better to have built a road in the first place and only to have built a railway when proved traffic was found to exist?

The Tanganyikan Government did not think so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is to be the place of religion and religious teaching in the new African university colleges.

The university colleges are autonomous institutions. The college authorities appreciate the place of religion in education and the need for providing arrangements for religious observance.

Would it not be preferable, in view of the varied religions and races of the students admitted to these universities, for the study of religion to be made in the schools of philosophy in the form of a study of comparative theology?

This is a matter for the university authorities, and I could not intervene in it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what use is being made of intelligence tests in the education of African children.

Intelligence tests are not in systematic use in the education of African children. The possibility of developing tests suitable for use in the various African territories is being examined in the Colonial Office, taking into account experiments carried out in Nigeria and the tests applied to African troops during the war.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that in those cases where the demand for school places exceeds the supply, ability to pay ought not to be the hall-mark of entrance, but that intelligence tests ought to be applied in such cases?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies by what method of selection the two new African and one new Asiatic members are to be appointed to the Legislative Council of Nyasaland.

The Africans will be appointed by the Governor from a panel of five chosen by the Protectorate Council and the Asiatic member from a panel of three chosen by the Indian Chamber of Commerce.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that, although there has been considerable dissatisfaction expressed by some Africans at this method it is the opinion of the majority of the people that the method adopted is the better and fairer method?

I agree with the latter part of that supplementary question, but I had not heard that there was considerable dissatisfaction with the method adopted. My information was to the contrary.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps he has taken to ascertain details of the sums held in the Palestine Government account in respect of court deposits; what results have been obtained; and when does he propose to refund the deposits.

The approximate amount held in Palestine Government Account in respect of the court deposits is £175,000. Since detailed records of the deposits in question were handed over to the local authorities on the termination of the Mandate, it is not practicable to make any arrangements to release the deposits until they can be verified from these records and arrangements can be made to refund deposits, where due, through the successor authorities to the former Government of Palestine.

Could my hon. Friend say whether these are sums which are being deposited on the instruction of the court or whether he has taken any steps at all to ascertain what these sums are? Would he be prepared to consider the direct claims of the people ordered by the courts to pay these sums into court?

This matter is now in the hands of the Palestine courts and we cannot take steps to verify records which are in the possession of the Palestine courts, but when they are verified and authorised the amount is still available to be paid out.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that while this matter is in the hands of the Palestine courts, the money is in the hands of the Colonial Office? Is he prepared to hand out that money to the Palestine courts so that it could be distributed to the proper persons?

I have explained in my answer to the hon. Member the conditions under which the money would be paid out.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies from what date and for what reasons Mr. Collet has been appointed a nominated unofficial member of the Legislative Council of the Seychelles.

By virtue of the discretion bestowed on him by Section 7 (1) of the Seychelles (Legislative Council) Order-in-Council, 1948, the Governor has appointed Mr. Collet, with effect from 29th November, 1948, to represent the interests of those sections of the community which would not otherwise be represented in the Council.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this man Collet was convicted of contempt of court, and that the Secretary of State gave me a categorical assurance on this matter on 22nd September that, "It is not my intention to offer Mr. Collet any official post in the administration of the Seychelles." Now he has made this man a Legislative Councillor.

There are several misstatements in that supplementary question. First of all, so far as I am aware, this man was not convicted of contempt of court, although the Chief Justice thought he had been guilty of contempt of court. Secondly, he has not been appointed to any official position; he has been appointed as an unofficial member of the Council. [Laughter.] I admit all these misstatements about a simple question are very amusing. The third misstatement of the hon. Member is this: the matter has nothing to do with my right hon. Friend, but is entirely in the discretion of the Governor.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman who are the classes of people this man is supposed to represent and what are his qualifications for representing them?

The classes of people are the under-privileged and this man, having been brought up as a member of the under-privileged classes, can well represent them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that Mr. Collet has played an important part in remedying grave social abuses in the Seychelles and that his appointment will be welcomed by the Colony?

Is it not a fact that the Secretary of State for the Colonies has to approve the appointment of this man on the Legislative Council? If that is so, how can he try to get out of it by suggesting that this appointment is not a direct contravention of the pledge given to me in writing on 22nd September?

It is not a fact. This appointment needs no approval from my right hon. Friend.

Does the Under-Secretary assert that an unofficial member of a Colonial council is not in an official position?

I do so assert. That is the point of his being unofficial.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will now make a statement on the discussions between his Department and the Ministry of Civil Aviation with regard to Luqa airport, Malta.

Discussions are still in progress. Arrangements are being made for the despatch of a mission to Malta early in the New Year to discuss certain outstanding questions concerning civil aviation, including the future use of Luqa airport.

In view of the great concern this is causing to Malta, could not some interim report be issued on the discussions before the mission goes out?

The mission is going out in the middle of next month and I hope the report will be to hand very soon after that. I do not think there is any possibility of an interim report.

In carrying out these discussions, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind the increasing unemployment in Malta, and see that they get a square deal in this matter?

Certainly.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty to what uses the land owned or occupied by his Department at Port Royal, Jamaica, is now put; and if, in view of the overcrowded and squalid conditions in which the people of this place live, he will consider making some of this land available for their temporary or permanent rehousing.

The Admiralty land at Fort Royal consists of the old Naval Yard, the site of the old hospital, and land adjacent to the Naval Yard surrounding the lagoon. Part of the Naval Yard is used by the War Department; part is let to a commercial interest and the disposal of the remainder is under consideration. Neither the unused portion of the Naval Yard nor the sandy and swampy land surrounding the lagoon is considered suitable for housing. The Admiralty is advised that the site of the old Naval Hospital is more suitable for commercial development than for housing.

What sort of commercial development does my hon. Friend suggest is likely to take place there?

It is not a question of what sort of commercial development is suggested, but whether there is ground suitable for housing.

Would it not be more suitable for housing than the houses in which the people are at present accommodated?

It may be more suitable, but I doubt myself whether we want to erect new or semi-permanent houses on ground that is most unsuitable.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many destroyers have been disposed of since VJ-day and are not now available; and how many new destroyers have joined the fleet during the same period.

Ninety-eight destroyers have been disposed of since VJ-day either by scrapping or transfer to foreign Powers. Thirty-nine destroyers have been completed and joined the Fleet during the same period.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the extreme importance of this class of vessels and other escort vessels, and of the danger of their running down to low numbers, as they appear to be doing?

Yes, Sir, we are fully aware of that. I should like to remind the hon. Gentleman that, of course, the new destroyers are infinitely better than the old destroyers that have been scrapped, many of those that have been scrapped having been exceedingly old and worn out.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the importance of numbers as well as the importance of the soundness of the individual vessels?

Certainly.

What does the hon. Gentleman mean by "transfer"? Does he mean sale? If not, why not?

Some are sold and some of them have been lent.

The hon. Gentleman referred to foreign Powers. How many of these destroyers were sent to Russia?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty in how many aircraft carriers under construction is work at present suspended.

Constructional work on four aircraft carriers is at present suspended, but work on one of these will shortly be resumed. I may add that in the case of all four ships work is proceeding both in relation to the preparation of machinery and the preparation of guns.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the supreme importance of this class of vessels and that deterioration always take place when work is suspended in a vessel for a long period of months? How long have they been lying without work going on in them?

For varying periods. I may add that they are kept, as far as possible, in a good state of preservation pending the resumption of work, and that we do attach the greatest possible importance to that.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether these ships were included in the list of ships under construction as given in the last Naval Estimates? Is he aware that he told us a few weeks ago that there were no changes in that list?

No, Sir. They were under construction, but the construction was suspended.

Did not the hon. Gentleman tell us a few weeks ago that there were no changes in the list issued with the Naval Estimates?

Nor are there. There is no contradiction at all. I said they are, in fact, under construction, but that the construction was suspended.

Can the hon. Gentleman say when work on these vessels will be recommenced?

One, the "Majestic," will be resumed quite soon.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he is now in a position to make a statement on 2nd Class Boy Gordon Lindsey who was drowned during a swimming exercise at Shotley.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I made to my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Mr. Tiffany) on 24th November.

While not wishing to pursue this tragic and unfortunate incident further, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he can give us an assurance that the training of officers and instructors in charge of young boys will be extended further than it is at present and go beyond the mere physical training of these boys?

I am not quite sure what my hon. Friend means by that question. I am satisfied that the officers concerned there are fully trained, and that they did show great restraint and great care in their training of this boy.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what were the methods of keeping afloat taught to the late 2nd Class Boy Gordon Lindsey during his period of instruction.

Lindsey received instructions in breast stroke, swimming on his back, floating on his back, and in treading water.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that there was something wrong in this boy's make-up, so that his original examination for the Navy should have stopped his entering the Service at all?

No, Sir. It really was a most unusual case. It is a quite extraordinary thing that this particular combination of circumstances should have resulted in death. I have been assured by an eminent pathologist that cases such as this are exceedingly rare.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if the parents of the late 2nd Class Boy Gordon Lindsey were present at the inquiry into the circumstances of his death; if the parents were represented at the inquiry: and by whom.

Lindsey's parents were not present or represented at the Naval Board of Inquiry. The circumstances of the boy's death had previously been fully investigated at a coroner's inquest, which the boy's three brothers attended.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the fact that this boy's mother—he has no father—was not present at the inquiry, and that she and I paid a visit to H.M.S. "Ganges" last Friday, and that we were received with every kindness and consideration by the captain, officers and boys? Will my hon. Friend consider the setting up of a commission, or a committee, of Members from all parts of the House to go into this matter in order to remove what is a definite misapprehension in the minds of many of us in relation to this incident?

I do not think there is any need to set up a committee, but I am sure that my noble Friend and I would be only too happy to see any hon. Members who would like to discuss the matter.

In view of the public anxiety about this case, will the hon. Gentleman reconsider his reply of a few weeks ago, and put a copy of the findings in the Library?

We consider that we have to treat the findings of these inquiries as privileged documents. This consideration does not apply only to this inquiry, but to every inquiry generally. We have to be quite certain that the people giving evidence know that they are giving it in confidence. That consideration concerns not only this inquiry. It is a principle applied generally to inquiries. I think I ought to add that this inquiry was over and above the full public inquiry which took place at the coroner's inquest, at which there was no question whatever of any ill-treatment of the boy. The coroner was entirely satisfied that everything possible was done.

In view of the answer my hon. Friend gave me a week or two ago about this matter of the representation of the parents at the inquiry, will he now say what facilities were afforded to the parents in advance of the inquiry to be represented at it, to attend it, to cross-examine and to call evidence themselves?

I regret to say that the parents were not invited to give evidence, and, as I said in my letter to my hon. Friend, we have laid down that in future relatives will be invited to give evidence on Naval Boards of Inquiry into deaths or accidents whenever it is expected that they will have information of value to contribute. In the past, that has generally been the practice, but we have now laid it down that it must always be the practice in future.

Who is going to decide whether the parents have evidence to contribute?

Quite obviously there are certain cases when they will and certain cases when they will not. If a boy were suddenly killed by a bomb falling on him in a ship, it is probable that the parents could give no evidence of any value; but if it were something, as in this case, connected with his previous life, they would have such evidence.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what degree of compulsion was used to get into the swimming bath the late 2nd Class Boy Gordon Lindsey.

The only form of compulsion used was to take the boy by the arm to the edge of the bath, when he either climbed down the steps or jumped into the water. This was done only when he was wearing a lifebelt.

Is my hon. Friend aware that on the last occasion when the boy entered the swimming bath it was at his own wish that he did so, and that he himself made a request in order to get the test done with? Does not this in itself show the necessity of hon. Members knowing the full details of this occurrence and thereby removing any injustice to all concerned?

The hon. Member is perfectly correct.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that most difficult psychological problems can arise, and will he give an assurance that every care is taken over supervision and especially with regard to medical examination before the tests are carried out?

Yes, Sir.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the whole of the facts of this sad case have been put before some competent psychologist?

Undoubtedly they have.

Does my hon. Friend realise that it is precisely in order to do justice to everyone, and to get all the facts established, that it is so necessary at an inquiry to have everyone represented who has any interest in the matter, and to have all the witnesses called?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many warships have been fitted out for experiments on animals in connection with research into atomic warfare; and what animals are to be acquired for this purpose.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave on 10th November to my hon. Friend the Member for Epping (Mrs. Manning).

Can we be told whether similar experiments have already been carried out in America, and whether the information gained by the American Navy is transferred to our Navy?

That is quite another question.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many inspectors of service stores are employed by his Department.

I assume that the question relates to the inspection, in the course of manufacture, of all production by contract for naval use. In that case the answer is 1,250 including industrials.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether a decision has now been reached in regard to the disposal of H.M.S."Ajax."

No, Sir.

Why cannot we have information about this? For six months we have been asking the Government whether we may be told something which surely everyone in this country wants to know.

One reason, and a very important reason, is that we have as yet had no firm offer from the Chilean Government.

Has it yet been decided that this famous ship shall not be given to a country engaged in aggression against the possessions of this country?

I cannot anticipate a decision when we have not even had a firm offer from the Chilean Government.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say why we should sell this ship at all?

Does the Parliamentary Secretary's answer mean that we are still hawking this ship to the Chilean Government?

It does not mean anything of the kind.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty the number of married quarters available in the United Kingdom for officers and other ranks of the Navy, respectively; the number of such married quarters at present unoccupied awaiting repair; the number of married quarters at present under construction; and the number of officers and men whose names are at present on a waiting list for married quarters.

The numbers of married quarters in the United Kingdom occupied by naval officers and ratings are 260 and 322 respectively. In addition, improvised quarters are occupied by 73 officers and 140 ratings. The number of married quarters at present unoccupied while awaiting repair is not readily available, but it is known to be very small. The number of married quarters under construction or for which contracts have been let is 200. In addition, conversion of existing buildings is in hand which will provide a further 20 quarters.

Naval officers and ratings have no entitlement to married quarters in the United Kingdom, and there is therefore nothing in the nature of a waiting list. It is, however, the Admiralty's intention to provide married quarters to a reasonable extent at certain isolated establishments, particularly air stations, and the construction and conversion programme to which I have referred is a step towards implementing that intention.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty how many ratings and other ranks of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines completed their first period of service during the past 12 months; how many of these have signed on to complete their time for pension; and of these what proportion were chief and petty officers and equivalent ranks.

During the 12 months ended 30th September, 1948, 3,480 naval ratings completed their first period of continuous service. Of these, approximately 23 per cent. were chief petty officers and 54 per cent. petty officers. The number already reported as having re-engaged is 833, of whom 38 per cent. are chief and 51 per cent. petty officers. There are, however, a number of reports outstanding and it is expected that the numbers finally reported as re-engaging will be about 970. I regret that the corresponding figures for the Royal Marines are not readily available, but I will write to the hon. Member when they have been obtained.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary tell us what he considers are the reasons for about only one-third of these men remaining in the Service?

I am not so certain that that is not a fairly satisfactory proportion.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how these figures compare with those for 1947, or give us some indication of whether the tendency is better or worse?

Not without notice.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he is aware of the disappointment caused in Scotland by the decision to close down the boys' naval training establishment at Crail, in view of the fact that its establishment last year provided for the first time for the training of boys for the Royal Navy in Scotland; and what steps are to be taken to maintain recruiting of Scottish boys for the Royal Navy.

I am aware that a decision such as this could not have been taken without causing some disappointment in Scotland. But I am conscious, too, that Scotsmen would not readily acquiesce in the expense of a naval establishment after it had fulfilled its purpose. I see no reason to expect that the closing of this establishment will affect the rate of recruitment of Scottish boys who like others are attracted rather by the prospects of a good career in the Royal Navy than by the very temporary convenience of spending their first year in an establishment near their homes.

Does the hon. Gentleman recollect the pride with which his hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary announced the establishment of this station some 18 months ago on the ground that it gave Scotland a training centre for boys, and if it was right then how does it come to be so wrong now?

I am certain that everyone in the House was quite proud of the fact that Scotland was to have a training centre for boys, but it was explained at that time that it was only to be of a temporary nature. I would point out to the hon. Member that the main reason why this establishment can no longer continue as a boys' training establishment is because of the pressure being used to send as many men to sea as possible, and, in this connection, over 200 officers and men have been released for sea service.