asked the Minister of Works the number of operatives, both skilled and unskilled, that will be required to enable the proposed concert hall on the South Bank to be ready for use in time for the 1951 Exhibition.

The number of building and civil engineering operatives (including off-site preparation) that will be required at the peak of construction of the concert hall will be about 700, of whom about half will be skilled.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman giving us a rather low estimate in this case? Would it not be far better if these men were helping the millions of people who are waiting for houses, and who were told that they would get them in double quick time?

No, Sir; I am assured that this estimate is quite correct. As has been said before, this work is not being done in any way at the expense of building labour devoted to housing.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that operatives working on power station contracts are being attracted to work on the South Bank scheme by the inducement of higher subsistence allowances, which are tax free and which are permitted by the authorities? Does he propose to take any action to stop the flow of operatives from essential work to the South Bank?

That does not fall to me.

Is it not true that the satisfaction of Socialist vanity has involved a callous disregard for the housing problem?

There is no question of Socialist vanity here, but of satisfying a great need in London.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will release for the use of the residents of Nevilles Court, Dollis Hill, N.W.2, the garages attached to that block of flats which have until recently been used by his Department, and which are now standing empty.

The garage at Nevilles Court was derequisitioned on 8th October last.

asked the Minister of Works (1) what action has been taken, and what further action is proposed, other than the reference of certain items already announced to the Commission on Monopolies and Restrictive Practices, to give effect to recommendation (3) of the Report on the Distribution of Building Materials;

(2) what action has been taken, and what further action is contemplated to give effect to recommendation (2) of the Report on the Distribution of Building Materials, which deals with the control of distributors' margins on building materials and components;

(3) whether he can make any statement about steps taken to carry out recommendation (1) in the Report on the Distribution of Building Materials, presented to him in March, 1948.

Recommendation (1) in the report was addressed to the builders' merchants and I called the attention of their organisation to it. Without a detailed inquiry I cannot say what improvements merchants have made in their systems of accounting, methods of stock control and other matters to which their attention was drawn, but I hope they will continue to effect improvements wherever possible.

As regards recommendation (2), further reductions of margins have taken place since my replies to my hon. Friend on 24th January and 2nd February, 1949, and my Department is now carrying out an investigation of margins to ascertain what more can be done.

Recommendation (3) was a long-term measure to eliminate restrictive practices in the field of distribution of building materials. I hope that objective will be reached through the machinery established by the Monopolies and Restrictive Practices (Inquiry and Control) Act and I must await the report of the Monopolies and Restrictive Practices Commission on the items already referred to them before deciding what further action may be desirable.

So far as recommendation (1) is concerned, will the Minister seek from the trade associations concerned some sort of progress report on what has been achieved? On recommendation (2), and the present investigation into margins which the Minister has just announced, can he say when that investigation will be completed by his Department?

This is a continuing practice. With regard to investigations into margins, in the answer which I have already given I have said that in respect of between 30 and 40 items the margins were reduced.

Will the Minister consider publishing a schedule showing precisely what margins have been reduced?

I have already dispatched a reply with particulars, and I am prepared to send my hon. Friend a copy of it.

asked the Minister of Works the superficial area in feet of the new building in Theobald's Road, Holborn, about to be occupied by the Board of Trade; what is the number of people it is designed to accommodate; and, in view of the economic and housing situation, if he will consider abandoning this scheme.

This building has a superficial area of 135,000 square feet, excluding storage space, and will accommodate approximately 1,600 people. The answer to the last part of the question is in the negative.

Why provide accommodation for some 1,600 bureaucratic drones when there are more than 2,000 worker bee families in the Orpington division waiting for homes? Will the Minister try to get the Minister of Health to reverse his decision as to the issuing of licences?

The Question only asked what was the superficial area.

asked the Minister of Works when it is now expected that the working party on the building industry will present its report.

I am informed that there are reasonable prospects of the report being completed by the end of the year or soon after.

Can the Minister assure the House that there has been no official hint from his Department to the working party to delay its report?

There is absolutely no necessity for me to do that.

asked the Minister of Works to what extent the new economies will result in modification of his programme of office building for Government Departments amounting to 2½ million square feet in central London and 3 million square feet in the suburbs.

This matter is at present under close examination. Considerable modifications in the timing and scope of the programme will be necessary but the details are still being worked out. One result must be a delay in the release of the requisitioned premises which the new offices were designed to replace.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that I have been trying for a very long time to get from him particulars of this programme and always in vain? Will he therefore give some further particulars if I put a Question down at some time that is convenient to him?

Particulars in regard to this matter are almost impossible to give because it covers almost every town in the country, so far as requisitioned premises are concerned. The London programme cannot be stated without due regard to requisitioned premises in other parts of the country.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer my question whether he would be prepared to give some further information on the subject in answer to a Parliamentary Question, when he has gone into the matter? In the past he has refused to give me any information, on the ground that it would give civil servants too much work.

I am prepared to give whatever information it is possible for me to give.

Would it not be better to stop issuing licences for Government buildings than to stop licences for homes for the people under private enterprise building?

The hon. Member for Orpington (Sir W. Smithers) is making a very big mistake. The buildings to which he refers are not Government buildings. They are privately owned and leased to the Government. They are not being done at the expense of the taxpayer.

Is the Minister not aware that contractors who conduct negotiations with his Department are told that they cannot get licences for private office building unless they are willing to lease the buildings to the right hon. Gentleman's Department?

I am not aware of that, because it is not true.

The right hon. Gentleman has said that my statement is not the truth. May I point out that I myself went to the Ministry of Works and that was my own personal experience?

Withdraw.

There is nothing to withdraw. As a general practice what was said is not true. In particular cases there may be reasons for refusing a licence.

asked the Minister of Works what was the price paid by him for Newby Wiske Hall, Northallerton; and for what purposes it is to be used.

This property has not yet been purchased and the price is still being discussed. If acquired, the property will be used as a police training centre.

Is it the duty of the Government to provide not only jobs for the boys but stately homes for the boys, at the expense of the millions of people who want small homes?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what is the average earning of a face worker in the mining industry working on the basis of five shifts a week.

It is estimated that on the average a coal face worker working five weekday shifts would earn £10 10s. a week; including the value of allowances in kind.

Would the right hon. Gentleman pass that information on to the Ministry of Labour who are advertising in an attempt to get recruits for the mines on the basis of £7 to £9 a week?

Is the Minister aware that these men could not continue digging the coal or earning their wages if it were not for a very large number of men working on the basic rate of £5 per week? The new men who are called in will get the new rate of £5 a week.

I was just going to say that the basic rate of wages paid to a man when he enters the industry is far below the rate mentioned. In any case it is, I suggest, better to put the figure too low than too high in advertisements of this kind.

Is the Minister aware that the wages compare very unfavourably with those of on-cost workers?

It is not my business to determine the wages structure of the coal-mining industry.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at the advertisements circulated by his colleague in the "Sunday Pictorial" of 16th October, in which it was stated that £7 to £9 maximum could be earned?

Perhaps the Minister could also give the figures of mine wages 18 years ago, when the party opposite had responsibility.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what complaints he has received from Scandinavian countries concerning the price and quality of British coal; what action he has taken and if he will make a statement.

The few complaints from Scandinavian countries about the price or quality of British coal exports which have been brought to my notice have been referred to the National Coal Board, who are responsible for negotiating and executing their own commercial contracts.

Has the Minister's attention been called to a statement by Mr. Hoffman that it is wrong in principle to raise the price of exports and not to raise the prices of domestic supplies? Has the Minister not heard Quern Jupiter vult perdere, prius dementat?

Without being able to interpret the hon. Member's Latin quite so rapidly, I am aware that the O.E.E.C. are investigating the question of the dual price system. The House would make a great mistake if they thought that this system only occurred in connection with British coal exports. It is far more widespread.

Was it the case before the war that there was this difference between domestic and export prices of coal?

I am afraid I could not say without notice.

asked the Minister of Food how much fish was used for manure and how much sold to the fish meal works for the months of July and August, 1949.

Six thousand eight hundred tons of white fish were sent to the fish meal works in July and 3,500 tons in August. The quantity sold for manure in the two months, at ports where there are no works, was about 30 tons. In the same period about 4,500 tons of herrings were processed into oil and meal.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that these figures are very high indeed, and will he say why, when this was taking place, many Icelandic trawlers were landing their catches in German ports at guaranteed prices while the British trade was suffering?

No, Sir. I cannot see that there is anything wrong with us producing fish meal. In fact, many hon. Members for agricultural constituencies have urged us very strongly to produce more of it.

asked the Minister of Food to what extent supplies of raisins and other dried fruit will be available this year in time for Christmas; and if he will take steps to ensure that they are obtainable everywhere.

asked the Minister of Food how much dried fruit such as currants, sultanas and raisins will be available for Christmas; and when such fruit will appear for sale in the shops.

An allocation of currants, sultanas and packeted dates has just been made and should reach the shops in good time for Christmas. Owing to the failure of the Australian crop there will be no raisins before Christmas. The quantity of dried fruits allocated is the same as in October last year. As sugar registrations form the basis of distribution for almost all dried fruit for household consumption, supplies will be evenly distributed.

Does not the Minister of Food agree that this will be a great disappointment to the housewife, who wants to make her Christmas puddings now? How does the right hon. Gentleman account for dried fruits being available on the Continent and not in this country?

The quantity of dried fruits will be about the same as last year in this country. It is true of raisins because of the bad crop in Australia.

asked the Minister of Food whether he has any statement to make as to the future price of meat.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. and gallant Member for Eastern Norfolk (Brigadier Medlicott) on 31st October.

As that reply conveyed the minimum of information, can the right hon. Gentleman now give even a limited assurance that there will be no increase even over quite a limited period?

No, Sir. I never speculate on the future of food prices or the level of rations.

Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that before there is any rise in the price of meat, he will examine the costs of distribution, which are very extravagant?

They may well be extravagant, but they are much lower than they were before the war.

asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware that officers of his Department were, as late as 28th September, giving advice that there was no likelihood that carrots would be controlled either this season or next season; and what action he proposes to take to compensate producers for any loss caused to them by the proposed reimposition of controls.

I know of a letter to this effect from one of my officers to a grower, which I regret. But our intention to control prices was published on no fewer than five occasions between January and October and I cannot agree that any question of compensation arises.

Will the right hon. Gentleman at any rate take very stern steps to see that officers of his Department do not indulge in unauthorised prophecies to members of the public?

Certainly, Sir, but this officer has been to the grower in question and apologised for his mistake, and I understand that the grower has told him that he suffered no loss.

asked the Minister of Food whether he will add feedingstuffs to the list of goods submitted by His Majesty's Government to the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation in respect of which an open general licence to import is now granted.

I do not think we can do this at present. In any case the O.E.E.C. countries are on balance not importers of feedingstuffs.

But does not the Minister think that he should take a step in this direction? For example, does he not think that private traders might pick up small parcels of feedingstuffs in, say, North Africa, since any little extra we can get would be a good thing?

We import quite considerable quantities of grain from North Africa, but I do not think that the opening of the trade with Europe to private traders in this matter would have any practical consequences.

Is the Minister aware that the members of the Baltic Exchange are doing a considerable business in coarse feeding grains all over the world, with the exception of this country?

We are doing a considerable business in the importing of coarse grains into this country.

If the purpose of the Question were carried out, would it not be at the expense of our partners in European co-operation?

In so far as they are net importers, that is the case.

asked the Minister of Food what action he proposes to take on the representations made to him by the Tourist and Holidays Board that the maintenance of the 5s. limit on meals is detrimental to the development and improvement of hotel and catering services.

I appreciate the importance of helping the catering trade to earn dollars but I cannot see my way to relax the price control on meals for the present.

Is the Minister of Food aware that this regulation is the only one the removal of which would immediately increase the dollar yield without having to import any extra raw materials? Is there anything behind this order except prejudice?

I do not think I should agree that there was only prejudice behind it. There is an important political principle behind it. I appreciate the importance of the dollar argument, but these two things have to be weighed against each other—fair shares or the earning of extra dollars.

Will the Minister say what is the use of subsidising this Tourist Board, as the Government do, if, when they tender advice, the right hon. Gentleman simply ignores it?

Certainly not. We have considered their advice carefully but it has to be weighed against the maintenance of fair shares in food, which is important.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain how fair shares are related to price, because shares are controlled by rations and not by price

No, in the case of many unrationed foods in restaurants, the price is the only controlling factor.

asked the Minister of Food how many tons of cereals are at present lying in the holds of ships in British ports owing to there being no storage space available; and what has been the cost this year, up to the latest date for which figures are available, of storing cereals on board ships lying in port.

Three ships were hired because they would otherwise have been lying idle and it was cheaper to use them than to store on land. The cost for 17,398 tons, down to 3rd November, was £4,291.

Is it not a fact that the Ministry of Food stores all over the country have been so full of corn in recent months that the Minister has been driven to use these ships for storage, and would it not be better to free the distribution of cereals to a greater extent, thereby enabling food producers to have more food sooner?

I am glad to say our stocks of cereals are large and that we have been able to make the increases in animal feedingstuffs rations which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture announced the other day.

As we understand that there has been considerable shipping difficulty in getting groundnuts away from West Africa, could not these ships have been used for that purpose? The right hon. Gentleman said they were empty and could not be used.

The hon. and gallant Gentleman misunderstood. There is no shipping difficulty in West Africa, although there has been a difficulty in rail transport. Railways are not ships.

asked the Minister of Food what sum of money is paid per ton to the Wholesale Meat Supply Association for their services as agents between his Department and the retail buying groups; and if this tonnage payment has varied from year to year.

The average rate of gross commission paid in 1948–49 to the eight Wholesale Meat Supply Associations was £2 5s. 3d. per ton. The rate of commission has varied from year to year owing to fluctuations in expenses and in the tonnage handled.

asked the Minister of Food the amount of money paid each year to the Wholesale Meat Supply Association for their services as agents between his Department and the retail buying groups.

As the answer is a table of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is there any time limit for the ending of these payments, which retailers consider a wicked waste of public money?

No, there is no such time limit, but perhaps my hon. Friend has read the programme which is under consideration by the Labour Party, saying that we are all in agreement that a time must come when these payments shall end.

Can my right hon. Friend say what percentage of the amount paid to the Wholesale Meat Supply Association goes in salaries, wages and expenses, what percentage is left for dispersal as dividends or compensation, and whether it is not time that we looked into the question of jobs for the old boys?

Not without notice, but I repeat that none of us on these benches regards the present situation as satisfactory, and that is why we have made proposals to end it once and for all by nationalisation.

Is the Minister aware that these old boys would be only too pleased to get back to the jobs which were taken from them when the war started and the Minister of Food was only too pleased to make use of the machinery?

Yes, in principle there are only two things that can be done in the end: complete decontrol or operation on public account by a public corporation. One thing or the other will have to be done.

Can the Minister give the House an assurance that no meat wholesaler is being imbursed by the Government for doing nothing at all?

No, certainly not.

asked the Minister of Food whether he has any further statement to make in respect of the comparison between the annual rate of the combined flour and bread subsidy before devaluation and at present.

Yes, Sir. The figures I gave in reply to the hon. Member's Question on 24th October understated the amount of the total bread and flour subsidy both before and after devaluation. The annual rate of subsidy is now estimated at £99.3 million, against a rate of £98.8 million immediately before devaluation. But I must warn the hon. Member that these are estimates and the actual figures realised will depend upon the rate of consumption and the price of future purchases of wheat and flour.

asked the Minister of Food how much edible mutton tallow is at present stored in the United Kingdom; how much is going rancid; and what is the cause of this deterioration.

We import tallow both for making dripping and for making soap. The hon. and gallant Member may rest assured that any tallow which does not prove fit to eat will be used for the latter purpose. Tests of our stocks are made as required and the final use of the tallow settled by their results. For the reasons which I have repeatedly given to the House, I am not prepared to give the level of stocks.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what has happened to the 400 tons or more of edible mutton far which went rancid in June or July or thereafter, and has that been sent to the soap manufacturers who have already indicated they cannot use it?

I could not agree with the facts as stated by the hon. and gallant Member.

asked the Minister of Food why the price offered by his Department for tallow was reduced on 1st October, 1949; and what effect devaluation has had on supplies coming to the United Kingdom.

As to the first part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to his Question on 31st October. As regards the second part, there has been no effect so far.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that his Parliamentary Secretary did not give me an answer to the first part of the Question? Further, why has the price been reduced, despite the fact that it has been running at £70 more per ton than the local price in Australia or the price in America?

The price was reduced because we were able to sell it without loss at a lower price, so we passed on the advantage.

asked the Minister of Food why the grant of a special meat allowance to miners to stimulate the output of coal has not been extended to persons engaged in the mining of metals or in other heavy work for the production of goods for export.

I am afraid that we have not enough meat to extend special rationing in this way; moreover there is a great deal to be said for devoting increased supplies of food as they occur to the ordinary domestic ration.

asked the Minister of Food when the people of London may expect to receive the 6d. meat bonus now six weeks overdue.

As the House knows, negotiations between the employers and the trade union regarding the dispute that has arisen over the distribution of the 6d. meat bonus for the London area have been unsuccessful, and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service has now set up a committee of investigation. I should prefer not to comment while the matter is, in this sense, sub judice, but I hope to make a statement at an early date.

Could the Minister say why we have had to wait so long for this committee, and when does he expect that we shall hear some of their findings so that the people of London can have the meat to which they are entitled?

If the hon. and gallant Gentleman wishes to know the date of the report of the committee, he had better put down a Question to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service.

Does that mean that until the committee have reported it will not be possible for the people of London to get the rations to which they were entitled by the bonus?

Yes, Sir. The committee of inquiry will not be a long-drawn-out affair. I understand from my right hon. Friend that it will be only a matter of days before we get the report.

Even so, that does not answer my question: do we have to wait until a committee has considered a particular dispute before the people of London can get their rations?

What is holding up the meat is this dispute, and therefore the meat cannot be distributed until the dispute is settled.

asked the Minister of Food what advances he has made to the Overseas Food Corporation since 31st March, 1949.

Eight million pounds has been advanced to the Overseas Food Corporation since that date.

Does that make with £29 million?

That is so.

asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the financial report of the Overseas Food Corporation, and that it fails to observe the terms of the Companies Act, 1948, he will institute an inquiry into the finances of this body.

No, Sir. The Overseas Food Corporation have stated in their report why it was not found possible to maintain during their financial year 1948–49 accounts and records which for all aspects of their operations conformed to the best commercial standards. I understand from the Corporation that they are confident that the measures which they are taking will correct these shortcomings, which have been discussed fully by them with their auditors. The Overseas Food Corporation are not bound by the terms of the Companies Act, 1948. Their responsibilities, duties and obligations are defined by the Overseas Resources Development Act.

Does the Minister's reply mean that when this correction of the account takes place it will be done retrospectively in order to include the past period, so that it will be possible to break down the account submitted in the report?

No, Sir. I think it would be impossible to say that the accounts of the next year can cover satisfactorily the period of transfer from the managing agency to the Overseas Food Corporation, which is really the period mostly at issue.

Can the Minister tell us whether, in view of the failure to keep proper accounts, anybody is to get the sack, or is it just when workers do bad work that they are sacked?

There have been changes, of which hon. Members have complained, in the personnel of the executive of the Corporation.

asked the Minister of Food the number of gallons of milk used in the production of plastics and other commercial uses, respectively, during the last 12 months or any convenient period; what percentage this represents of the amount used for human consumption; and if he will divert the milk used for industrial purposes to provide an increased supply to the housewife.

No liquid milk is provided for the commercial production of plastics and similar industrial products. Seventy per cent. more milk than before the war is sold for liquid consumption and whenever supplies are available they are used in baby food, rationed cheese and other essential foods.

Are we to understand from that reply that milk of any description, after being processed for cheese, is used for plastics? Are plastics a byproduct of cheese?

No, Sir. Except for certain medical purposes, no milk is used for these purposes at all.

asked the Minister of Transport why, by the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations, 1949, Statutory Instrument, 1949, No. 1618, he has discontinued the provision permitting members of His Majesty's Forces to be given lifts in vehicles used under limited trade licences.

These regulations replace in one code 13 sets of regulations made between 1941 and 1947. When they were being made the opportunity was taken to omit words relating to certain temporary war-time concessions, which were no longer considered to be necessary, and which had, in fact, probably already ceased to be effective.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say why this particular concession should be deemed to be unnecessary at a time when hundreds of thousands of National Service men are serving at some distance from their homes, and is he aware that this concession has proved of the greatest practical advantage in enabling men to take advantage of short leave at home?

That is not my information. These trade plates are very restricted. The numbers of people using them in circumstances in which Service men could take advantage of them are very small.

In that case, why withdraw the concession?

Because it was no longer considered to be necessary.

asked the Minister of Transport what has been the outcome of the experiments made in London by his Department as to the suitability for general use of the single-deck motor vehicle known as the Crellin Duplex pullman coach.

No such experiments have been made by the Ministry of Transport. The makers have lodged an appeal with my right hon. Friend against the refusal of a certificate of fitness for a vehicle of the type referred to, and he will announce his decision to the parties in due course.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will arrange for the provision of public conveniences on arterial roads.

My right hon. Friend has sympathy with this proposal, but he has no powers to carry it out, as the provision of public conveniences is the responsibility of local authorities, subject to my right hon. Friend's consent in the case of trunk roads.

In view of the fact that these establishments are hardly less needed in open country than in the towns, could not the hon. Gentleman make representations to local authorities on the subject?

I think local authorities are very well aware of the need.

asked the Minister of Transport the numbers of train-men who left trains on running lines in each of the 12 month periods ending respectively on 31st January, 1947, 1948 and 1949, in a form comparable with the figures given on 11th February, 1946, for the 12 months ended on 31st January, 1946.

This information is not now available in the Ministry of Transport as the matter is a day-to-day responsibility of the British Transport Commission.

Does than mean that, although the looking after this matter may be a day-to-day responsibility, the general upshot of it is generally regarded as outside the proper purview of the Minister?

Day-to-day matters are delegated by the Act to the Railway Executive.

Is the hon. Gentleman denying that questions of public safety depend on this, and are not matters of public safety the responsibility of the Minister?

There have been no allegations made, as far as I know, that public safety is not being observed.

asked the Minister of Transport whether the division of the country into areas as provided for under the Transport Act has been decided upon; in how many such areas have consultative committees been set up; and in how many they remain to be appointed.

I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the reply my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield (Mr. Ernest Davies) on 25th July.

How does it come about that nearly two years have been taken to appoint all these area consultative committees? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many of the questions going to the central council are in fact questions which should go to area consultative committees, rather than to the central council?

If they go to the central council, I have no doubt that there is machinery for sending them on to the committees.