asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that, following a bus accident in Twickenham recently which resulted in people being taken to the West Middlesex Hospital, the names of the injured were not released to the newspapers until more than two hours had elapsed since their admission; and whether, in view of public anxiety over such accidents, he will ask all hospitals to give such information without delay.

Full particulars were given to Press representatives within half an hour after the last casualty was admitted to hospital. Hospitals have already been asked to give particulars of accident casualties to the Press as quickly as possible.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is not really in the interests of anybody except ambulance-chasers that this information should be published in the Press before it is given to relatives; and that in any case, it is not suitable for the hon. Member to interfere in a constituency 100 miles from his own?

I myself think that it is the view of everyone that it would be desirable for relatives to hear of the accident first of all from the hospital, and not read about it first of all in the Press.

Will my right hon. Friend give the fullest possible publicity to the reply which he has given today, in view of the high regard in which the administration of this hospital is held in my constituency and in adjacent constituencies?

I have no reason at all to suppose that the hospital has been at fault in any particular. Indeed, as my hon. Friend has said, we have every admiration for its administration.

While not making any reflection upon the hospital itself, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he agrees that it is highly essential that in cases where relatives are living some distance from the accident and are not aware of the accident, they should have the information as soon as possible?

That is an entirely different issue. The question here is whether the hospital had provided the Press with a report as reasonably early as possible. The answer is "Yes." The Press report, I think, was erroneous in the matter. In any case, I would much prefer them to be a little delayed in that, and let the relatives know first.

asked the Minister of Health how many cases of diphtheria were reported among children up to 16 years of age in the County of Norfolk during 1948; and how many of such children had been immunised against the disease; how many children up to 16 years of age in the same county died of diphtheria during 1948; and how many of such children had been immunised.

Figures are available only for children up to the age of 15. According to returns from local authorities, four children were reported during 1948 as having diphtheria; none of them had been immunised, and no children died from the disease.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that spectacles were ordered last April for the five-year old son of Mr. A. R. Wright, of 7, Old Court Hall, Godmanchester, Huntingdon; that the case is an urgent one; that the boy is still without his spectacles; and when he may expect to receive them.

No, Sir. Inquiries made by my Department have failed to identify this case. While I cannot undertake to investigate every individual case, if the hon. Member will send me details about which I have written to him I will have further inquiries made.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this a National Health Service case? I gave him as many particulars as I could and, bearing in mind that the child is severely handicapped in his education, will the right hon. Gentleman do his best to see that the child gets spectacles if I let him have the fullest information?

I must have enough particulars to enable me to identify the case.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the General Optical Company, Clerkenwell Road, has still not delivered spectacle lenses ordered by the National Health Service last January and February; and if he will take steps to see that no more orders are placed with this firm until it has greatly reduced the delay.

I am aware that most prescription manufacturers have heavy arrears of orders for spectacles but I have no power to direct opticians to withhold orders from particular firms.

Has this firm not proved its total inefficiency by accepting far more orders than it could cope with? As a result, many unfortunate people have had to wait for nine months, including among them my own mother-in-law.

I am sure the whole House sympathises with my hon. Friend in his domestic infelicity. We are trying to get these cases sorted out so as to prevent delays in any particular instance.

Could my right hon. Friend say what progress is being made in the discussions with the trade which he said were taking place in this connection when he replied to a Question which I asked?

Some progress is being made, but hon. Members will appreciate that this is an extremely complex matter. We are dealing with many thousands of private opticians who have relations of their own with firms and it is not an easy matter to iron out.

asked the Minister of Health the reason for the continued delay in supplying spectacles to Fiona and Morag Duncan, schoolchildren in Streatham, of whom particulars have been supplied to him, whose health is suffering because they are compelled to use spectacles which are no longer suitable.

Delay in supply is due to heavy demand, and I cannot undertake to investigate every individual case. I understand, however, that in this case the opticians have now promised to get the glasses through as quickly as possible.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that these children have been waiting nearly a year for their spectacles and does he also realise, from correspondence I have passed to him, that the children are ill? Does he further realise that his Parliamentary Secretary told me two-and-a-half months ago that all the parents had to do was to keep in touch with the optician? They have done that ever since and the situation really is thoroughly unsatisfactory.

I think the priority system for spectacles can be operated only by the optician. There is no way at all of doing it through central machinery. I have urged the opticians to give first consideration to sick people and schoolchildren.

asked the Minister of Health what is now the present average length of time between the order and delivery of a pair of spectacles.

The position is approximately the same as on 20th October last, and I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave on this subject on that date.

Does the right hon. Gentleman fully realise the seriousness of this position, that there are, for instance, considerable numbers of schoolchildren, normally intelligent children who attend school every day, who are yet unable to read or write because they have no spectacles, and whose whole future is thus seriously prejudiced? When shall we have some improvement in the length of time?

I have already informed the House that an improvement is already taking place, and the supply now is very much in excess of demand.

Is it the fact that the delay is due to the inadequate import of lenses from abroad? Is that the bottleneck?

No. We have imported a large number of lenses from abroad to deal with arrears, and before very long our own production will be adequate.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has now considered the representations made to him in respect of the Regional Hospital Board's proposal to use for other purposes the Kingston Victoria Hospital; and what action he proposes to take.

I am awaiting further information from the Regional Hospital Board.

asked the Minister of Health if he will arrange for repairs to deaf-aids to be carried out locally in order to prevent delay.

Minor repairs are carried out locally at the distribution centres. Patients whose aids have to be sent away for major repairs are provided with replacements. To carry out such repairs locally might well cause rather than prevent delay.

asked the Minister of Health if he has made an estimate of the extent to which the proposed 1s. tax on National Health prescriptions will reduce the demand on doctors or, alternatively, increase the demand on chemists.

No, Sir. There is evidence of unnecessary resort to doctors and chemists which the proposed charge is intended to reduce, but I am unable to estimate the exact extent to which this is likelv to take place. There is no reason why the proposed charge should increase the demand on chemists.

In any case, in view of the widespread opposition to this method of penalising the poor, would not the Minister consider abolishing this discriminating charge altogether?

I think the hon. and gallant Member should await the regulation before he makes wild statements of that sort.

They are not wild.

asked the Minister of Health what is the average cost of prescribing a medicine in hospital; how does this compare with similar medicines provided by a chemist; and whether he can account for the difference.

I regret that this information is not available.

Would the Minister propose to find an opportunity of ascertaining this information? If he does so, he will find that the average cost of a prescription in a hospital is 9d., whereas in a shop it is 3s. Could he not find an opportunity for a new regulation to bring the shop price down to the hospital price?

I do not know how the hon. Member arrives at that figure. If he will tell me of his arithmetic on which he bases his figure I shall be extremely interested.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that owing to lack of suitable accommodation a number of psychotic children are housed in the same wards as adult patients in mental hospitals within the South-West Hospital Region; and if, in his plans for dealing with this problem, he will have due regard for the desirability of providing the necessary accommodation on a regional basis.

The South-Western Regional Hospital Board have recently made a careful inquiry into the question of accommodation for child psychotics in their region, and have been in consultation with my officers about it. I am informed that there are now only three psychotic children in mental hospitals in the region, and efforts are being made to remove them to other accommodation. The answer to the second part of the Question is, "Yes."

Does that mean that my right hon. Friend proposes to provide separate accommodation for psychotic children, and will that also cover the possibility of providing educational facilities?

I am not able to reply offhand to the second part of the supplementary question, but certainly we do not consider it desirable to have these children in mental homes for adults.

asked the Minister of Health how many accidents through burns and scalds, occurring in the home, have been treated in hospitals during each of the last three years; and how many of these accidents have been suffered by children.

I regret that the information is not at present available.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has considered the correspondence forwarded to him by the hon. Member for Colchester indicating the refusal of a hospital management committee to grant special leave without pay to a member of the staff to attend a training course for trade union officers; and whether, in view of the importance of building up a staff consultative machine in the hospital service, he will circularise all committees advising them to look sympathetically at such applications.

Yes, Sir, and I am at present considering whether any more general advice to hospital management committees would be justified.

Can the Minister tell the House whether any guidance has been given to hospital boards in connection with facilitating trade union recruitment of the nurses and staffs?

There is no need for me to give general guidance in this matter at all. All the arrangements for the recruiting of trade union membership are well known to the unions concerned.

As hospital managements apparently do not recognise the desirability of setting up consultative machinery, and the necessity for this to be done by suitable people, who should be given an opportunity of having proper training for it, does my right hon. Friend really not think that some kind of indication from him is desirable on that point?

As I said in my first answer, I am proposing to make inquiries to find out whether some general guidance ought to be given.

asked the Minister of Health by whom, and in what hospital or hospitals, were orders issued limiting the use of operating theatres to the hours from 9 a.m. to 5.30 p.m.

asked the Minister of Health in what hospital or hospitals the use of the operating theatre is restricted to the hours 9 a.m. to 5.30 p.m.; by whom; and why.

I am making inquiries and will communicate with my hon. Friends.

Does my right hon. Friend's reply mean that Lord Horder has not yet had the courtesy or the courage to substantiate the allegation—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order."]—which, in the absence of factual supporting evidence, will be regarded as irresponsible and, possibly, even malicious?

As far as I can find out—and I have made inquiries—we have received no information whatsoever from Lord Horder either before or since he made his statement.

That supplementary question we have just heard was an attack upon a Member of another place, and it should not have been made. It referred to a statement made in the Press, and there was no need in the question to mention any name at all.

Withdraw.

On that point of Order. The statement was made by a Member of another place but not in his capacity as a Member of another House. Do I understand that any Member of the other House can make any statement he likes in any other capacity and claim immunity?

It was a very offensive supplementary question imputing malice, and it is not in Order for Questions to be offensive.

Further to that point of Order. I would point out to you, Mr. Speaker, also, that the original statement complained of was exceedingly offensive.

Will my right hon. Friend consult with the Law Officers of the Crown to find out whether hospital administrators as a group can be protected in any way from unsubstantiated charges against unspecified hospitals?

The only defence and protection which administrators have—which, indeed, the country has—is in Questions and answers in the House of Commons and the publicity which is given to them.

Would not the Minister think it right to circulate the information in HANSARD rather than to convey it to the two hon. Members concerned?

If there is a Question put on the Order Paper I will certainly give a reply in the House.

Is it so unreasonable that what may be termed routine operations should be confined to these hours, provided that emergency operations can take place at any hour?

There are many inquiries to make and there are thousands of hospitals. In the absence of any particular information I have now to circularise all the hospital management committees. Certainly it is perfectly reasonable for operating theatres to be closed during certain hours if they are always available for emergency operations, but the implication here is a reflection upon the National Health Service.

Was not the original answer a perfectly proper one, that the right hon. Gentleman was making inquiries, and is it not premature, until he has made those inquiries, to say whether this is substantiated or not?

A responsible person, if he thought that this was being done and it was wrong, would have written to the Minister and given him the name of the hospital in order that he might make inquiries. Instead of that, much anxiety and pain and alarm have been unnecessarily given to many hundreds of thousands of people.

asked the Minister of of Health what instructions have been issued by his Department or by any regional hospitals board to any hospital to reduce the use of penicillin on the ground of expense; and if he will give an assurance that the use of drugs under the National Health Service lies entirely within the discretion of doctors.

No such instruction has been issued, either by me or by any regional hospital board, and the matter is one entirely at the discretion of the doctor.

Will my right hon. Friend now request, very courteously, a Member of another place either to substantiate or to have the common decency to withdraw his allegation?

I do not propose to enter into any communication with the noble Lord in this matter. If he will send me the precise information upon which he bases his very serious allegation I will have inquiries made. In the absence of this information I can only ask the country to take no notice of such irresponsible statements.

Is the Minister aware that some people are allergic to penicillin, and that the administration of it does them definite harm; and are any steps being taken to see that doctors do not administer it when the patients tells them that he is allergic to it?

This is entirely a clinical matter with which I not propose to interfere.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider allowing a limited number of houses to be built by private enterprise specifically for letting to tenants.

I would refer the hon. Member to Circular 102/49 regarding the review of the housing programme, of which I enclose a copy. I hope to be able to give further instructions in the near future and will bear in mind the point raised by the hon. and gallant Member.

Is it not a fact that the majority of the houses that are now being built are built by private enterprise for local authorities? Will my right hon. Friend urge upon local authorities the desirability of establishing public works departments of their own in order to build houses by direct labour?

That is another issue entirely. This is a question whether it would not be desirable in some instances that private persons should have licences to build houses to let. I am satisfied that there are some instances where that would be a general advantage.

With reference to the recent economy measures taken by the Government, will the Minister give an assurance that the stopping of private building was not a sop in relation to the shilling on a prescription?

asked the Minister of Health if he has received the information concerning housing waiting lists from local authorities for which he asked in his Circular 171/48, and which should have been returned to his Department by 31st March; and when he will make a report of the information he has received.

Returns have now been received from all but a few local authorities, but I am unable at present to add to the reply I gave on 24th October.

Does the Minister therefore say that he has not received all the replies which were due some seven months ago? Was not the purpose of collating this information in order to know exactly what kind of housing programme was necessary?

The purpose is to enable local authorities to screen housing lists, to have them sent to the central authority and then have them analysed for redundancy and various other particulars in order to give us, as far as possible, an approximate estimate of the housing needs.

From his study of those replies which have already been received could the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether the number of people waiting for houses is increasing or decreasing?

I should say they are on the decrease, not on the increase, but until all the returns are in I cannot tell what the figures are.

Does not the Minister agree that the lists will be added to considerably by the persons who are disappointed through not getting a licence to have a house built by private enterprise? Will not that be a further addition to the list?

I do not agree at all. If a person has a need ahead of someone else then he should receive his requirements from the local authority's scheme and not merely by virtue of the fact that he has the money to buy a house.

asked the Minister of Health on what grounds his Leeds Housing Office instructed the Haltem Price Housing Authority to revoke a building licence granted to Mr. E. L. Frost, of Kirkella.

My regional office raised certain questions about this but did not instruct the local authority to revoke the licence, and indeed had no power to do so. The local authority decided to ask my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works to revoke the licence, but I understand that on reconsideration of the position my right hon. Friend is advising the local authority to issue a further licence.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the current method of granting building licences results in the maximum price being revealed to the builder, and consequently in housing costs being inflated; and if he will adopted an alternative method.

The licence contains no information unknown to the builder which would result in inflated building costs. The latter part of the Question does not, therefore arise.

Would the Minister bear in mind in this connection that the original estimate was subsequently reduced by £250? Is it not clear, therefore, that this information is available to the builder and should be withheld in the view of the importance of obtaining reduced prices for building?

There is statutory obligation to disclose it which I have no power to waive.

Will the Minister give some guidance to licensing authorities whether he is prepared to agree that housing costs ought to be raised now, as a result of devaluation, because I have heard of one instance where the figure was raised by £250 and that was the reason given?

I do not know whether the hon. Member refers to housing costs or to the prices of second-hand houses.

New houses.

With regard to new houses, there is no evidence at the moment of any rise in prices whatsoever and no one has the right to anticipate the effect of devaluation because no one can yet estimate it exactly.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that, with the exception of 10 houses for agricultural workers, no houses have been built in the village of Templecombe since the war; and whether he will review the allocation of houses which may be built by the Wincanton Rural District Council, in view of the need for housing accommodation in the village for all sections of the population.

I am informed that 26 houses have been built in this village since the war. The council's allocation will be reviewed from time to time, but I do not consider that an increase is called for at present. It is for the council to settle the distribution of their allocations among the various parishes.

asked the Minister of Health if he will order an inquiry into the circumstances affecting housing conditions in Birmingham, where the rate of housing has been only 50 per cent. of the average for the whole country; if he will consult with the Minister of Labour with a view to increasing the supply of manpower for the construction of houses to meet the needs of over 50,000 applicants now on the register of the estates committee of the city; and if this problem will engage his urgent attention.

No, Sir. I am informed that detailed proposals for improving housing progress in Birmingham have recently been adopted by the Corporation, including measures aimed at augmenting the manpower on house building. Every possible assistance is being given by my regional officers and by the Ministry of Labour.

In view of the grievous situation of housing in Birmingham, is it not a strange fact that 1.95 houses per thousand are being built there against 3.75 in the country as a whole? Surely something can be done to improve the rate?

There is so much private work going on in that area that it is very difficult for the Corporation to keep up its manpower. We are doing our best by planning to try to make a proper distribution between the private and public sectors, but it is not always easy, and we do not always have the most willing instruments.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that owing to the deterioration in the housing position in Birmingham the 10 Labour Members for the city are endeavouring to have a conference with the local authority, and that so far it has been reluctant to agree to one, even though we asked for it as long ago as July? In this situation, if the Minister does not agree to an inquiry, will he meet the Members of Parliament for the city so that this whole situation can be considered?

I am always ready to meet Members from any part of the House, but my hon. Friend would not expect me to enter into a discussion as between Members of Parliament and their local authorities.

Surely the Minister realises—and I am much obliged for the interest he takes in this Question—that we have 55,000 applicants in Birmingham for accommodation? Surely something can be done to arrange for such labour power as is available to engage in the building of houses?

Birmingham has a large number of people who would like to have council houses, but it must not necessarily be assumed that every applicant for a council house is actually in need of accommodation, although we know that there are very large numbers of people who are in need of accommodation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are well over 20,000 applicants with children, who are clearly in need—in most cases badly in need—of accommodation, and that this percentage is probably one of the highest in the country, and that the rate of construction of municipal houses is, in fact, not 50 per cent. of the rate for the country but a third of the rate for the country? Does he not think that calls for very special consideration?

The answer to my hon. Friend is that the building industry is working to its full capacity, and the only way in which we can get more houses built is by not building something else. Then we have to consider priorities. Those priorities have been considered.

asked the Minister of Health what steps will be taken this winter to prevent further damage and loss of private and public property at Sandgate, where the sea defences and sea wall, which could not be maintained during the war, have in places been destroyed or undermined, thus exposing a considerable portion of Sandgate to immediate danger whenever a high tide coincides with a gale.

The local authority have already put in hand the necessary steps.

In view of the very serious situation at this small place, which may soon easily become a tragedy if the work is not carried out quickly and efficiently, would the right hon. Gentleman very kindly review the whole situation once the Coast Protection Bill has become an Act?

I will indeed.

asked the Minister of Labour when he proposes to lay on the Table of this House the Statutory Instrument to continue the Control of Engagement Order.

I hope to do this early in December.

asked the Minister of Labour the percentage of insured workers in employment who were receiving holidays with pay in 1939 compared with 1949."

The estimated figures are about 40 per cent. in 1939 and about 95 per cent. in 1949.

asked the Minister of Labour what proportion of displaced persons at present in this country have been unemployed for a period exceeding two months, since 1st January. 1948.

I regret that this information is not available, but I am satisfied that the proportion unemployed for a period exceeding two months is very small indeed.

If I send the right hon. Gentleman details, will he look into the cases of 30, displaced persons who have been unemployed for well over three months, although many of them are anxious to work on neighbouring farms and many local farmers are anxious to have them?

I should certainly like to see such information, but I had no guide in the Question that such a point was at issue. I can say that we know of 600 cases of misfits, of people who do not fit in very well, who have been unemployed for over two months. The percentage of unemployed amongst these people generally is considerably under 1 per cent

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the shortage of labour in the dyeing industry; and if he will consult with the industry with a view to preparing a scheme for trainees.

I am not aware of any particular shortage of labour in the dry-cleaning industry. It is for the industry itself to arrange for the systematic training of its young workers, and my officers are ready, if requested, to give advice on the preparation of a suitable scheme.

Has my right hon. Friend invited this industry to set up a training scheme; and does he not appreciate that until there is such a scheme many youths cannot apply for deferment of National Service, and so may be lost to the industry?

On the other hand, this industry has never made any complaint to me, and I cannot ask if they want a training scheme until they tell me that there is a shortage of labour.

asked the Minister of Education the distribution of the Ministry of Education pamphlet No. 16 entitled "Citizens Growing Up"; and how many copies of it have been sold to the public.

One thousand eight hundred copies of this pamphlet were distributed by my Department to local education authorities, the Press and selected individuals. The number of copies sold to the public or otherwise distributed by His Majesty's Stationery Office up to 19th November was 14,343.

Is the Minister satisfied with the distribution of this pamphlet; and is he aware that it is about the best pamphlet his Department has ever produced, and that its distribution ought to be a very great deal larger?

I shall never be satisfied with the numbers. I agree that it is at least one of the best pamphlets we have ever turned out. It is also one of the most popular from the standpoint of the numbers printed. I am anxious that it should be advertised more, and we have put in hand a reprint of another 15,000.

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that it would be even better and more popular if more intelligent attention had been paid to the typography; and will he consult experts, and have future booklets set in more suitable and better type?

We are anxious to keep these pamphlets within reach of the pocket of the individual.

Can my right hon. Friend explain why we are getting so many complimentary questions from the Opposition today? Where is the catch?

asked the Minister of Education why he cut the London County Council 1950 education expenditure from £7,758,000 to £3 million; whether similar cuts have been made in the expenditure of the local education authorities; what is the total of these cuts; and what will be the effect in providing places for the one million more children by 1952.

Since the answer is rather long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Meanwhile, can the Minister tell the House what will be the total amount of the different cuts applying to all local education authorities, and whether that is the amount which was referred to in the £35 million cut in building announced by the Prime Minister the other week?

No, it has no relation to us.

What is the total?

The total amount is contained in the answer, which is so long that I thought it would take too much time to read it.

It is only one figure.

Is it or is it not a fact that the L.C.C. is saved a considerable amount in building by places like Essex having to build on their estates for the school children who come to live there from all over London?

That is another question, which I am sure the House would not wish me to answer now.

In view of the correspondence in "The Times" and elsewhere, will my right hon. Friend make it clear that these figures which are being quoted as "cuts" are not cuts in building at all, but are cuts in paper estimates which were grossly inflated compared with the general national plan prior to the introduction of the general cuts?

That is a point which is made clear in the long answer.

asked the Minister of Education when he proposes to put into effect the plans for helping teachers who are working in America under the Exchange of Teachers Scheme, in view of their financial difficulties.

In order to meet the possible difficulties of these teachers an instalment of £50 of the normal Goverment grant has already been paid to each of them and a further instalment is being paid. Special payments to meet the situation caused by the change in the sterling-dollar rate will, as I told the hon. and gallant Member for Middleton and Prestwich (Major Gates) on 27th October last, be made when inquiries have been completed as to how much of their funds the teachers had already converted into dollars before revaluation took place.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether, in view of the fact that the Southern Rhodesian Government proposes to sell the sections of railways from Vryburg to Ramathlabama and from Ramathlabama to Palapye, respectively, the consent of His Majesty's Government has been asked and given for either transaction.

No, Sir. I have no official information about the sale of any sections of the Rhodesia Railways; I have seen a Press report that the Southern Rhodesia Government is prepared to consider selling to the Union Government the section of the railway from Vryburg to Ramathlabama, which lies in Union territory. I have not seen any reports of a proposal to sell the section in the Bechuanaland Protectorate. The question of His Majesty's Government's consent does not, therefore, arise.

If the Southern Rhodesian Government desired to sell would the consent of His Majesty's Government have to be obtained?

If the Southern Rhodesian Government desired to sell, it would not be a question of exercising the Union's option, which can only be effected in 1970, and no formal consent would be required. In fact, the higher authority of the Rhodesian Railways includes two persons nominated by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom—the Governor of Northern Rhodesia and the High Commissioner for the High Commission Territories. Therefore, we should have a say, though no consent would be required.

Could we be assured that if the Union Government did purchase this section of the railway in Bechuanaland it would not be treated by His Majesty's Government in this country as a reason for any change of status in Bechuanaland?

That is a rather wider question.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in the interests of the dollar export drive, he will set up in his Department a Dollar Exports Board.

No, Sir. My hon. Friend will be aware that a Dollar Exports Board has been set up as a body, independent of His Majesty's Government, representing British industry, commerce, banking and organised labour, to foster and help the accepted aim of increasing to the utmost exports to North America. The internal organisation of the Commercial Relations and Exports Department of the Board of Trade has been reshaped in such a way as to give the maximum help for this purpose both to the Dollar Exports Board and generally.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in a recent speech to the American Chamber of Commerce the Chairman of the Dollar Export Board said, among other things, that "politics or no politics we cannot afford the welfare State "and in many quarters this statement was regarded as coming from someone in an official position. Can my hon. Friend take steps to repudiate it, and will he say if he is satisfied with the position and, if not, what other action he proposes to take?

The responsibility of my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is to see that exports are pushed to the fullest extent in the North American markets, and we have no reason to feel that that is not being done.

Was not the appointment of the Chairman the responsibility of the President of the Board of Trade, and in the light of the recent speech made ought not the Chairman to be asked to resign?

No, Sir. The appointment was not made by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade.

Does my right hon. Friend feel that the function of the Board of Trade in maximising dollar exports is fulfilled by having as chief salesman a person who denigrates his employer?

Can my hon. Friend say whether it was thought a useful method of expanding dollar sales to say to Americans that we were spending in this country on the welfare state what we could not afford?

I think that the Chairman of the Dollar Export Board knows the views of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will now state the results of the investigations carried out by his officials into the cause of the two fires in Newport which destroyed two well-known and historic churches recently.

I understand from the Chief Constable of Newport, Monmouthshire, that he called in Dr. J. B. Firth, of the North-Western Forensic Science Laboratory, to assist in the police inquiries into the cause of the destruction by fire of the two churches. These inquiries are not yet completed.

Can my right hon. Friend give me any indication when they are likely to be completed?

No, Sir. It is hardly correct to describe this person as an official of my Department. He was called in by the Newport and Monmouthshire police and is acting under their instructions and advising them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will substitute the heading "Christian or other fore names" for the heading "Forenames" when reprinting the electoral registration form.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of the offence given to a large number of persons by reason of the substitution of the word "Forenames" instead of "Christian Names" on the voting registers; and whether, in future, the words "Christian or Forenames" can be used rather than "Forenames" only.

The answer is, "Yes, Sir."

Does the Home Secretary agree that in this country the feelings and susceptibilities of Christians deserve consideration at least as much as the feelings of non-Christians; and that it was unfortunate that the heading "Forenames" was ever adopted, perhaps without his knowledge.

I think that the susceptibilities of all sections of the community should be considered in these matters. There is no doubt that "Forenames" is a correct legal description, but I am aware that some people, who would deny me, for instance, the use of Christian names, do feel very strongly about the matter, and I have arranged that in future all susceptibilities shall be met.

asked the Prime Minister if he will consider publishing month by month the results of his appeal to the nation on 24th October in appropriate statistical form.

The very full monthly statistics now published concerning production, productivity and exports show the progress which the country has made and will continue to make. It is not feasible to single out and give statistical form to the particular results which may follow from my addresses to the nation.

Does not the Prime Minister think that it would be a considerable encouragement to those who are responding to this appeal, to have a periodical acknowledgment of their success, especially as the right hon. Gentleman was able to give at the Mansion House dinner some particular examples?

I gave some examples, but it was not necessary or indeed meant to include everybody. I thought that to give some examples would encourage others. I am glad to say that there are many other examples coming forward, but I do not think that these would be susceptible to statistical form.

asked the Prime Minister in which Departments of His Majesty's Government it is the practice to pay informers for reporting infringements of the law or official regulations by members of the public.

The General Post Office, the Inland Revenue Department, the Customs and Excise Department and the Ministry of Food. Small occasional rewards have also been paid by the Board of Trade, and possibly by other Departments.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say if these Departments pay children to inform against their parents, or will they merely encourage them to inform without payment, as was done in Nazi Germany?

No, Sir. The particular offences in respect of which awards have been given are very grave offences against the whole community. For instance, the Post Office gave a reward in a matter in which there was wholesale forging going on of national saving stamps. There are also dangerous conspiracies in regard to the export of sterling and so forth, and steps have been taken—and I think rightly taken—to protect the country. No one likes the informer business, but it has been found necessary over a long series of years by successive Governments to give rewards in certain exceptional cases. The amounts given are very small.

While recognising that this has been of long standing, does not the Prime Minister think that it is the duty of every citizen to bring to the attention of the authorities any breach of the law, and should not this be left in that form rather than to make a money payment to encourage spying?

I entirely agree that it is the duty of the citizen. Rewards are never held out as an inducement, but they are given as awards in certain cases.

Can my right hon. Friend say of the five Departments he has listed which began this practice under the present Government, which under a Conservative Government and which under a Liberal Government?

So far as I can see the Treasury started under a Whig-Tory Government a couple of hundred years ago. I think that the Post Office started somewhere in the early 1920s, and I suppose that the Ministry of Food, being recently established, started at a more recent date.

Is the Prime Minister aware that this whole matter is exceedingly repugnant to all citizens, and will he undertake to see that it is kept within practical bounds? Will he inform the House who decides on the scale of rewards and on what Vote it is carried?

They are kept within very strict limits. I can say, for instance, that the total amount given from 1916 to 1938 on Inland Revenue matters was some £11,000, and in the last 10 years it was about £1,100. It is kept under very close review, and careful instructions are given to all officers on appointment that there should be no holding out of rewards whatever. I think that hon. Members must recognise that there are very grave crimes which do great damage to the country, and it is necessary that the community should be protected.

Will the Prime Minister at least assure the House that these monetary rewards will be kept to a minimum and will be subject to Income Tax?

Obviously that depends on the income of the recipient, and I naturally cannot say whether they will come under Income Tax or not, but I think that I have three times already said that they are kept to the minimum.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this practice is no more reprehensible than the practice of snooping when the means test was in operation?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will now make a statement about the plans of the Forestry Commission with regard to the proposed extension of afforestation of the Quantocks.

I cannot yet add anything to the answer given to the hon. Member of 18th October.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the pitiful anxiety of people in that area, and can he give any indication when he will be able to give a decision?

Unfortunately, no, because the claims to common rights for this land which the local inhabitants have made are still being investigated, and these investigations have to go back deep into history.

Can my right hon. Friend say at this stage whether this will include the planting of conifers only or of other trees in a mixed plantation?

No detailed afforestation plans are being made in this case.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will, in future, ensure that the person appointed by him to hear the objections of an owner or occupier threatened with a supervision order shall not be the agricultural executive committee which proposes to make the order.

No, Sir. The opportunity to make representations is given so that the county agricultural executive committee may hear, and take into account, the views of the person concerned before reaching a final decision.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it really means the agricultural executive committee is both prosecutor and judge? Although these committees undoubtedly try to act in as just a manner as possible, does it not often leave the impression that justice is not done? Will he look into the matter again to see whether some other administrative arrangements can be made in cases of this kind?

No, Sir, because the words of the Act are very definite. As my hon. Friend must be aware, the representations are not appeals against a supervision order which has been made, but the representations are made to the agricultural executive committee, perhaps on the recommendation of its district committee for a supervision order, to determine whether or not that order ought to be applied. It is a perfectly fair scheme which farmers generally accept and appreciate.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he can now announce the date from which the Poultry Stock Improvement Plan will be re-opened to new entrants.

No, Sir, but I hope to be able to make an announcement at or about the end of the year.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will take steps to ensure that the accounts of the county committees show the full amount of expenditure and income which is properly attributable to each service and the amount of Ministry of Works expenditure on hostels which is attributable to the gang labour service.

The intention is that the trading accounts of county committees for 1948–49 and succeeding years shall include all expenditure and income properly attributable to each service. As regards hostels, it is proposed, on the recommendation of the Public Accounts Committee, to show in the Appropriation Account the income and expenditure in respect of hostels arising on the Ministry's Vote and on the Votes of other Departments.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Report of the Select Committee on Estimates, of which this forms part, is a terrible indictment of his Department and of State control as a whole?

I do not agree to anything of the kind.

When is it proposed to consider publishing the accounts of the agricultural executive committees?

When they have been submitted to the appropriate select committee.

Do I understand that the right hon. Gentleman is going to change the form of the accounts, as recommended by the Select Committee on Estimates?

I stated, in regard to hostels, that it is proposed, on the recommendations of the Public Accounts Committee, to show in the Appropriation Account the income and expenditure arising on the Ministry's Vote and the Votes of other Departments.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if, in order that Parliament may form an accurate view of the way in which some £20 million is spent on the services of county committees, he will publish in detail the audited accounts of each county committee.

No, Sir.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that he will call to the particular attention of the Auditor-General the point of both this Question and the previous Question?

The hon. Member is fully aware that the question was dealt with by the Select Committee on Estimates in their Eleventh Report, on which the Department's observations will be very shortly submitted to the Committee.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will give the name of the county committee that lost £350,000 in 1947–48.

No, Sir.

Why does the Minister wish to hide the inefficiency of this county committee, and will he, if he will not give the name of the committee, sack those responsible for this loss and replace them by decent farmers who know their job?