asked the President of the Board of Trade why he inquires into the personal political beliefs of members of his Department who desire to stand as candidates at local authority elections; and if he will cease this inquisition into the private affairs of individuals on his staff.

Whilst inquiries whether prospective candidates are party or non-party have been made, prospective candidates have not been asked to disclose to which party they belong before granting or refusing permission to stand, nor are such inquiries allowed to be made. With consideration of the Masterman Report, I did inquire about the party affiliations of those to whom permission had been granted and whose elections were at that time in fact over. In one case the officer concerned refused the information, but there was no question of compelling this officer to disclose this information.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he can now announce the date from which the timber trade will be allowed to resume the purchase in Scandinavia and elsewhere of softwood of suitable quality for the building trade and other requirements.

No, Sir.

Does not the Minister recognise that so long as he continues the Timber Control and the centralised buying of timber we are losing the practical experience of timber importers who know what is really needed?

No, Sir. Although plans are being made for the ultimate reversion of softwood to private purchasers I am satisfied that the time for doing that has not yet been reached.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is now in a position to fix a date at which the present restrictions on magazines and periodicals will be removed.

As from 1st March next, existing magazines and periodicals will no longer be limited for their home sales to a percentage of their pre-war consumption of paper, but will be allowed to use all the paper they can obtain. The restrictions on new publications will also be withdrawn.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, which I am sure will be very generally welcomed?

Will it now not be necessary for magazines to try to arrange for publication abroad, which has caused great inconvenience both to the right hon. Gentleman's Department and elsewhere?

We shall certainly welcome all the efforts which they are able to make to export copies of what is produced, but there will now be no question of any necessity to publish abroad.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's statement cover newspaper*?

It covers what it says, periodicals and magazines, not newspapers.

Will the restriction on the amount of paper permitted to be allocated to advertising be removed at the same time?

I should require notice of that question.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the present position regarding the proposal to set up a development council for the pottery industry.

Following a meeting between my hon. Friend, the Parliamentary Secretary, and both sides of the industry in Stoke-on-Trent on 7th November, I told the British Pottery Manufacturers' Federation and the National Society of Pottery Workers that I intended to publish shortly my proposals for a pottery development council.

Can my right hon. Friend give us any idea of what is meant by "shortly"? This matter has been in hand for some weeks now.

There were discussions for a long time before this decision was finally taken. I am sorry that I cannot at the moment say when we shall be able to publish my proposals.

Does this mean that the right hon. Gentleman intends to force a development council on the industry, or has he secured the necessary agreement?

No, I am sorry to say that the employers, having at one time been favourable to the idea of a development council, suddenly, when the infection spread on the subject of development councils, changed their minds.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that any such bodies are of real value to an industry only when they are entered into voluntarily by both sides?

I am doubtful whether the other side would enter voluntarily into the kind of organisation which the employers have in mind.

Is this not one of the results of compulsion, which this side of the House warned the right hon. Gentleman about some time ago?

No, Sir. A sudden decision on the part of employers in a number of industries to refuse to cooperate in the establishment of development councils faced me with the necessity of making a very difficult decision, and after a long period of negotiations and almost inexhaustible patience, I finally felt that I had to come to a decision about it.

Will my right hon. Friend agree that although the party opposite warned him about this position, they did not at that time say that they would organise this obvious resistance?

I have every reason to think that the opposition to development councils was certainly not organised by the party opposite. The fact that it was organised and took on a political character is not, I think, in doubt.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what proposals are under consideration for the setting up of development councils under the Industrial Organisation and Development Act; what progress has been achieved; and when it is expected that final decisions in respect of them may be expected.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given on Tuesday to a Question by the hon. Member for Louth (Mr. Osborne) about development councils for the wool textile and clothing industries. I have dealt with the pottery negotiations in the answer I have just given my hon. Friend. In the hosiery and cutlery industries, proposals for development councils are under consideration, but I cannot yet say when final decisions in these cases will be taken.

Is it not a fact that there is available in the best organised factories experience which should be available to the rest of the industry, and is there not also a wider public and a community interest to be taken into account apart from the employers' side?

Yes. I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend has just said.

In view of the success which has attended voluntary cooperation of chambers of commerce and others with the Government, would it not be wise to continue still further with sweet reasonableness to try to get voluntary agreement about the establishment of development councils?

Sweet reasonableness is one thing but sweet reasonableness for ever and ever towards people who are determined not to co-operate, is another. If we are to look for analogies, the great success achieved in the cotton industry should be a sufficient guide to what our policy should be.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if, in view of the recent increasing demand in hard currency areas for finished silk products, he will increase the allowance of raw silk importations.

Arrangements have already been made to give additional allocations of raw silk to manufacturers who will use it for the execution of orders from dollar and similar hard currency markets.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware of the acute shortage of babies' diapers or material for making the same in the area of Harlow, Bishop's Stortford, Epping and Chingford; and what steps he is taking to remedy the position.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Hastings (Mr. Cooper-Key) on 18th November. I am glad to say that deliveries of Terry squares by manufacturers were nearly 50 per cent. higher in November than they were in September. I am, of course, continuing to watch the situation closely.

Since I have now received information that this shortage is still widespread and acute over the whole country, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether this effort is the first fruits of his research marketing endeavours in America? If so, will he stop the supply there so that the babies in this country can have comfort and dry towels?

No, it is not the result of my visit to the United States that there is a shortage of babies "nappies" in this country. It has been due, I think, partly to shortage of deliveries by the manufacturers; also later, in September, there was a big buying of cotton goods of various kinds. As I have said, supplies from manufacturers have increased by 50 per cent. but they have not yet reached the shops.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the largest number of summonses for which application was made by his Department at Bow Street, on any one day this year, in respect of failure to render returns required for the census of production; and bow many summonses were issued on such application.

Eight summonses were applied for on 12th and 18th November, 1949, respectively; and eight summonses were issued on each occasion.

Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that on one day this year his Department applied at Bow Street for 7,000 summonses on this account, and that the magistrate refused to grant anything like that number? He issued a thousand but insisted on their being distributed among different courts.

The information which I have just given the hon. Member is the information given to me. If there were circumstances of the kind he has mentioned I should be glad to look into them and, if I receive different information, to correct what I have said.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how many clerks of his Department have been sworn in before a Bow Street magistrate under the Official Secrets Act during the last 12 months to deal with returns made by companies and firms.

During the 12 months ended 30th November, 1949, 311 officers of my Department have made declarations before a magistrate at Bow Street that they will not improperly disclose the contents of individual returns.

As the returns contain the answers to eight pages of questions, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is satisfied that the information is not out of date by the time it is collated? Further, is he satisfied that the employment of large numbers of people both to prepare and collate these returns is really justified?

This matter was debated on a number of occasions when the Census of Production Act was going through the House. My answer to the hon. Member is that the information will certainly be of great value and great use, and that the use of the staff upon it is thoroughly justified.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he has any further statement to make about import relaxations in view of the decision by the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation on 2nd November that member countries should adopt the objective of removing quantitative re-trictions before 15th December, 1949, on at least 50 per cent. of their total imports on private account from other member countries as a group, in the respective field of food, feedingstuffs and raw materials, and manufactured goods counted separately.

Yes, Sir. As the House is aware, His Majesty's Government have already made a substantial contribution to this objective in the form of open general licences for a wide range of imports into the United Kingdom which I announced on 29th September last. This contribution alone accounts, on the statistical basis laid down by the Organisation, for 83 per cent. of total private account imports of food and feedingstuffs from the participating countries as a group, for 37 per cent. in the case of raw materials excluding oil and for 49.7 per cent. in the case of manufactured goods.

In view of the fact that the President of the Board of Trade has announced further relaxations, does not he think he might have waited until he has heard what the other member countries are prepared to do today in order to reciprocate in their attitude towards the liberalisation of intra-Euro-pean trade?

No, Sir. All the nations who participated in O.E.E.C. entered into an obligation to table their proposals for achieving a 50 per cent. figure by yesterday, and I think it would be completely contrary to the lead we have given in the matter if we had waited to see what other nations were going to do.

Can the President say what in fact they have stated that they are prepared to do?

We have not yet seen their lists, but they did, jointly with us, enter into an obligation to reach a 50 per cent. figure.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any further de-control of the hardwood trade is in prospect.

Yes, Sir. I am satisfied that the need for continuing to import hardwood on Government account has ended, and all hardwood will therefore revert to private trading on 16th January next. At the same time, price control of imported hardwoods will be removed. Details of the scheme for reversion to private buying have been worked out by my officials with a committee of the hardwood trade and will be announced shortly. It will, moreover, be possible, as part of the additional measures of import relaxation which I have just announced, to permit any private trader to import hardwood freely from a wide range of countries.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that this relaxation will not lead to an increase in the price of hardwood, and is he taking steps to ensure that that will not be so?

No, Sir, it will not lead to an increase in the price. If I were not so satisfied I should have insisted on maintaining price control.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that sufficient supplies of hardwood under the proposed arrangement will be forthcoming to the furniture industry, and that there will not be an increase of price?

Yes, Sir, I am so satisfied, but if events turn against us, naturally we should have to review the situation.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House why it has been possible to free imports of hardwood and not softwood? What is the difference?

There is a big difference in the availability of hardwood and, secondly, in the proportion obtained from dollar sources. If I gave the hon. Gentleman a full account of the difficulties I have had with the hardwood trade, to make sure that when they were decontrolled they did not completely restrict competition by quotas among themselves, and also prevent new entrants coming in, he would realise the great difficulty I should have to face in the case of softwood.

Can the President tell the House if the Chancellor is prepared to allow a certain number of dollars for the purchase of this hardwood?

There are a few types of speciality hardwoods essential for industrial use, and not available from other parts of the world, which have to be obtained from dollar countries, and will continue to be obtained from dollar countries.

What does the right hon. Gentleman intend to do with the junk bought on Government account and now littering the country?

I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's word "junk" in any sense, but arrangements have been made between the timber control and the trade for selling off the stocks at present in Government hands.

Can my right hon. Friend say if his proposal is based on the increasing importation of colonial hardwoods?

Yes, Sir, we are importing vastly more colonial hardwood now than we have ever done before—I think something like five times or more the amount we were getting before the war—from the major timber producing colonies.

Does the reply of the President mean that there is no immediate intention of de-controlling softwood?

We have been looking at it and there have been preliminary discussions with the trade. But there have been thrown up a number of tremendous difficulties, and until those difficulties have been overcome there can be no question of de-controlling softwood.

asked the President of the Board of Trade to what extent he has arranged for publicity to be given to the facilities which the Export Credit Guarantee Department are prepared to offer to exporters to the dollar market.

A Press conference to explain the new facilities offered by the Export Credits Guarantee Department was held on 26th October, and a statement about them was then circulated to the national and trade Press, as well as being published in the Board of Trade Journal on 29th October. Pamphlets showing the services offered by the Department have been made available at all the branch offices of the Department as well as at the regional offices of the Board of Trade. I understand too that the Dollar Exports Board has circulated details widely in industry. The matter has also been referred to in a number of public statements including one I made at a Press conference which my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I held on 8th December.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for his reply, may I ask him if he will make sure that all the officers of the Board of Trade in every part of the country realise the importance of this concession which has been made in the expansion of our export trade and to supplement what the Dollar Export Board are doing at the present moment?

Yes, Sir. I only wish I had the same confidence that the whole of industry were aware of the facilities available, and would make use of them in proper cases, as I have in regard to the officers of the Board of Trade.

May I ask the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the importance of making the consumer, or user, in Canada aware of the facilities to be provided, in any statement which may be published, he will make it perfectly clear that the backing of His Majesty's Government is behind every firm which proposes to stock spare parts for the servicing of machines which may be shipped to Canada?

Yes, Sir, I have said that on a number of occasions, both in regard to Canada and the United States.

asked the President of the Board of Trade how soon he anticipates that it will be possible to export to Argentina goods listed under Category 3 of the Agreement with the Argentine Government, including metal-frame windows; and if, in view of the importance of such exports and the considerable market now available in Argentina, he will urge the Argentine Government to allow their import, duty free, as soon as possible.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Mr. Stokes) was informed on 1st December, the question of the issue by the Argentine Government of import permits for the goods listed in Schedule 3 to the Anglo-Argentine Trade and Payments Agreement (including metal frame windows) is one of the many issues which are now being discussed in Buenos Aires. I cannot say when we shall reach a satisfactory agreement. The question of import duty is a separate issue which I do not think could usefully be pursued while the larger questions are still not settled

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a big potential market for these windows at this moment, owing to various housing developments, and so on, which may not be open later on, and would he therefore consider pressing the Argentine Government to expedite the matter?

I am very well aware of the very large market available in the Argentine for a wide range of our goods, not only metal windows, and certainly there has been no failure on our part to press the Argentine Government in every way available to us to carry out the obligations they entered into under a previous agreement.

May I ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he will again make it clear in any statement he sends to the Press, that it is the obstruction of the Argentine Government which is preventing the shipment of goods and not the unwillingness of His Majesty's Government or the manufacturers in this country?

I should have thought that most of the manufacturers in this country are pretty well aware of the situation on these import restrictions—

Yes, but the users of them.

and I do not think it would be helpful, particularly with negotiations continuing, to add statements of that kind to their difficulties.

Well, I do.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he intends to take to offset the adverse effect on the price of export goods resulting from the increase in transport costs.

The hon. Member is presumably referring to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport on 28th November about the application made by the British Transport Commission for authority to increase certain of their charges. The hon. Member will be aware that my right hon. Friend has, in conformity with Section 82 of the Transport Act, 1947, decided to consult with, and consider the advice of, the permanent members of the Transport Tribunal, acting in this matter as a consultative committee. I cannot anticipate their advice to my right hon. Friend, or his decision in this matter.

When this application is—as the right hon. Gentleman and I both know it will be—accepted, can he assure the House that the resulting increase in costs from this increase in transport costs will in no way affect the export trade?

As I have said, I cannot anticipate the advice given to my right hon. Friend, or to his decision; but whatever changes there may, or may not be, I am sure the hon. Gentleman will realise the difficulty and the extent to which international obligations will be breached if there were an attempt to subsidise the export trade as compared with the home trade by differential railway rates.

Will my right hon. Friend make it clear, or will he agree, that the increased cost of transport on prices is very moderate and no recent increases have taken place in respect of exports as suggested in the Question?

How does the President expect private manufacturers to meet world competition if all the time they have to contend with the increasing costs of nationalised services?

So far as the Question put by his hon. Friend is concerned, I think the supplementary question which the hon. Gentleman has put is a hypothetical one; but I would certainly say that I do not expect a lot of our exporters to increase their exports until they start looking for the export markets, and doing something about it.

Is it not true, if the increase is accepted in this nationalised undertaking, that the price of transport will in fact be very much less than the price obtaining under the private sector of the industry, namely, in the region of 80 per cent. above prewar?

Would not the right hon. Gentleman consider it more desirable to advise his right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport of the Board of Trade point of view before a decision is come to, instead of afterwards when it may be too late?

My right hon. Friend is fully aware—I think all my right hon. Friends are fully aware—of the need to take all possible steps to increase exports.

In view of the importance of the export drive for this country, is not it about time that some of the Departments were getting together for the purpose of arranging a uniform freightage rate from any part of this Island to the seaboard to enable works and factories in outlandish places to get an equal chance with those on the coast?

That is an entirely separate question which I think should be put to the Ministry of Transport.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it is not sufficient to rely on the intelligence of his right hon. Friend? Has he, in point of fact, made his views, and the views of his Department, known to the right hon. Gentleman the Minister of Transport?

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that those people who are actually engaged in industry know full well that it is possible to bear an increased cost of transport out of the profits of the export trade?

I have said on a number of occasions that, at least since devaluation, prices and costs in this country on their present level do not in any way provide the limiting factor to a very great increase in dollar exports which it lies within the opportunity of British industry to achieve.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware of the long delay in passing British samples through the Customs in New York; and whether he will consult with the Foreign Secretary with a view to increasing the staff of the Commercial Department of the British Consulate-General in that city in order that it may be able to give all necessary assistance in this matter.

No, Sir. I am satisfied from the recent tripartite discussions in Washington on customs procedures that the United States authorities are well aware of the importance of facilitating clearance of samples and goods through the Customs and are doing what they can to ensure this, but travellers should make certain that they have ready all particulars necessary for Customs clearance. I do not think it is necessary or desirable to consider an increase in our commercial diplomatic representation on. this ground, particularly in view of the friendly and co-operative relations which already exist with the Customs authorities in the United States.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there have been cases of British business men arriving in New York, having taken care in advance to get the necessary assurances from the Consulate-General, who have found that their samples cannot be released until they have found an importer on the spot, or that the promise to prepare a list of potential buyers has not been carried out? Does not that mean that there is an unnecessary waste of dollars?

I hope that as a result of the discussions to which I have referred, these difficulties will be far fewer in the future than they have been in the past, but if any come to the notice of my hon. Friend in future I hope that he will let me have the particulars.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that, in connection with the electoral register now being compiled in Bedford and elsewhere, private persons are purporting without authority to be official checkers in the employ of the registration officer; and if he will use his powers under Section 66 (1) of the Representation of the People Act, 1948, to issue directions to the registration officer to make such arrangements as will prevent the continuation of these activities.

I have no information about these alleged activities, but in any event I could not usefully issue directions to the registration officer about the activities of persons not under his control.

Will my right hon. Friend say something about the right of entry into the homes of electors of official checkers? Is it not wholly irregular that Tory canvassers in some constituencies should be collecting forms in bulk and sending them to the electoral registration officer?

The official canvasser on behalf of the registration officer has no right of entry by virtue of his position. I think that it is undesirable that a person other than the householder concerned should collect the forms on the pretext that he is going to post them, because he might forget.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a complaint of a similar occurrence to that mentioned in the Question has been made to me from my constituency and that, upon inquiry, I was informed that the canvasser in question was a representative from the Conservative Central Office? Has my. right hon. Friend any influence to ensure that Tory canvassers really look like Tories?

I understand that the best canvasser is the person who looks as if he belongs to the other side.

Is the Secretary of State aware that if his hon. Friend succeeded in stopping all the Conservative canvassers in his division, he would still lose his seat?

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the fact that I am going greatly to increase my majority?

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and with the consent of the House, I would like to answer Question No. 133 on behalf of my right hon. Friend, the Minister of Defence.

But as it is clear, even on the expected 1950 basis, that something like 200,000 men and women entitled to claim the Service vote have failed to do so, and as it is also a fact that the ordinary householder is under a statutory obligation to register, should it not be considered whether Service men and women should be placed under a like obligation, either statutory or disciplinary?

We are making this matter as widely known as possible and using every effort to get everybody on to the register, but we think that at this time a committee, such as the hon. Gentleman suggests, would not really be effective because the work is being pressed forward as rapidly as possible.

Was particular care taken to see that these documents followed the Service men on posting to overseas and elsewhere?

Yes, that has been attended to very expressly.

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether consideration should not be given to including Service men on the register automatically, without formal application?

That is a matter which we shall consider. I will convey that point to my right hon. Friend.

Would the right hon. Gentleman give some assurance that commanding officers of units will be reminded that they should make these facts known to men serving under their command?

So far as I am informed, everything is done in that respect and proper notices are placed so that these people know exactly what their position is.

As the Service vote can now be claimed by all civil servants abroad who are paid by the Treasury, and also by their wives, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether any similar steps have been taken about them?

No, I cannot give any information about that, but I will make inquiries.

Will my right hon. Friend press his right hon. Friend to take all possible steps to see that the tragedy which occurred in 1945—[Interruption]—does not repeat itself—a tragedy whereby thousands and thousands of men and women were prevented from receiving their voting papers and, therefore, prevented from voting?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, what qualifications as shorthand-writers are required of Metropolitan police officers attending political meetings for the purpose of recording remarks which might be the subject of a criminal charge.

Officers employed on this work are required to pass an efficiency test in shorthand for which the minimum speed accepted is 100 words a minute. Many of them can reach higher speeds.

In view of the fact that police reports of Fascist meetings appear at times to conflict with those made by outside competent observers, will my right hon. Friend look into this question or qualifications again because it would be a great pity if the veracity of the police came to be called into question?

I do not think that these qualifications need looking into. If any other person who takes a report is prepared to appear in court in support of it, I will have that report considered to see whether it justifies a prosecution.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the statements in the Oaksey Report, what steps he now proposes to take to provide new houses for the police.

The report has only just been published and police authorities have not yet had time to study it. I am however fully aware of the problems caused by the shortage of police housing both in London and elsewhere, and I propose to consult my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health at an early date to consider what further action can be taken in the light of the report.

Could the Minister tell us, approximately, how many houses are required before the police can be said to be decently housed; if he is aware that 30,000 married quarters are to be built for the Armed Forces in the next few years; and if the police are going to get equal treatment?

We do not want 30,000.

Will the right hon. Gentleman get a little closer to his right hon. Friend right away, because until he gets the houses for the police he will never get recruits?

In his consultation with his right hon. Friend, will the Home Secretary consider whether it is practicable to give to police authorities a quota of houses for policemen above that assigned to the local authorities for the civilian population? The number cannot be great over the whole nation.

I am going to discuss the matter with my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent improvements have taken place in regard to accommodation in remand homes and approved schools; whether this is now adequate; and if corporal punishment has decreased during the past 12 months.

Necessary adjustments in accommodation are made to meet current demands. There is no deficiency of accommodation except in approved schools for younger boys, for whom more places are being provided. There has been no significant variation in the number of cases of corporal punishment.

Is it not a fact that very encouraging progress in providing this accommodation has been made in the last year?

Yes, Sir, and a slight drop in the number of persons sent.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many young persons absconding from approved schools have been imprisoned during the past six months without any charge having been preferred; in what portion of the prison they are confined; by what legal authority the imprisonment is authorised; and how many of such young persons are persons who have never been charged with or convicted of any criminal offence.

Most absconders are returned immediately to the school when apprehended. Those under 17 who are not so returned are lodged in a remand home temporarily. During the past six months, eight boys and 22 girls over 17 were lodged in prison for short periods pending my decision whether they should be charged with absconding: most of them were placed with persons on remand or awaiting trial, and some in the prison hospital. In such cases the Prison Governor concerned is authorised to take charge of the absconder by the school managers under paragraph 13 of the Fourth Schedule to the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933. Fifteen of the girls and one of the boys concerned were originally committed to an approved school as being beyond control or as falling into bad associations or moral danger and, therefore, in need of care or protection.

Will my right hon. Friend take the opinion of the Law Officers as to how far it is lawful to imprison young persons without charge and without trial?

Before the Criminal Justice Act came into force, school managers had power to charge a boy or a girl with absconding, and the practice then was to bring immediately before a court any person charged by the managers with absconding. Section 82 of that Act made it necessary for the school managers to get the consent of the Secretary of State before charging a person with absconding, so that arrangements had to be made for detention. When remand centres are provided under the Criminal Justice Act, the approved school absconders, like other persons between the ages of 17 and 21, will be lodged in a remand centre, instead of in prison. I will take the opinion of the Law Officers on the point raised by my hon. Friend, but I am assured that the power exists.

Is it not the present position that a change in the law which was intended to protect a young person from prosecution, except with the leave of my right hon. Friend, is now operated in order to keep young persons, many of whom have never been charged with any criminal offence at all, for at least seven days in prison? If that is the case, ought not the arrangements to be reviewed?

The difficulty of dealing with some of these cases, and with girls particularly, is very great, and while I am anxious to avoid their being sent to prison as far as is possible, in some cases, with the existing arrangements about buildings, I have no other alternative.

Would the right hon. Gentleman make quite certain that these children do not come into contact with criminals, which, in fact, does happen on certain occasions?

As I said in my original answer, they are placed with prisoners on remand, or awaiting trial, and some of them in hospital.

Will not my right hon. Friend agree that, no matter how difficult these girls and boys may be, the last place on earth which is likely to have any reformatory effect is a prison?

I agree with that, but, on the other hand, I have a duty to discharge with regard to these people, and, with the present shortage of accommodation, cases do arise where no other alternative is possible. I do regard it, as my hon. Friend says, as the last place on earth.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, so far as these difficult girls are concerned, they are not criminals and have never been charged with any criminal offence? They suffer from too bountiful a nature, I suppose, but that is surely no reason why they should be placed in prison?

I am charged with the duty of securing that they are placed in a position in which it is possible to consider whether they should be charged with absconding or not, and until I am relieved of that responsibility I have no other alternative.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is in the highest degree undesirable to place anybody, let alone young persons who have never committed any crime, in prison merely because of the administrative convenience of the Department or the lack of accommodation elsewhere?

It is undesirable, but, unfortunately, at the moment it is inevitable.

As there is now surplus accommodation in approved schools, particularly for senior girls, will my right hon. Friend consider transferring some of these buildings which are not fully used for that purpose for the purpose of remand homes?

No, Sir. I do not think that I have a single home that is completely empty.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the general opinion is that, if anyone is to handle this job, like the case of these difficult girls, he is precisely the man to do it.