asked the Minister of Transport if he has any further statement to make on the question of the new road through the City of Durham.

My hon. Friend will be aware that the object here is to arrive at a scheme acceptable to the two councils concerned and to myself. The county council are ready to consider any scheme put forward by the city council which I accept as sound. Some months ago the city council did submit a scheme to my divisional road engineer, who raised questions on it to which he is awaiting answers.

Is the Minister aware of the urgent need of the new road and will he place a time limit upon the two authorities to come to agreement?

I do not quite think that the two authorities would accept the placing of a time limit on their consideration. I realise the need to get this scheme settled and I will do what I can to promote agreement.

Is the scheme which the right hon. Gentleman contemplates one that has been approved, or one that has been condemned, by Dr. Thomas Sharp, the distinguished town planner, who has made a particular study of the problems of Durham and knows and loves that city?

I do not know whether the scheme which the city council has submitted is that to which the hon. and learned Member is referring; but that is the scheme which I have under consideration.

asked the Minister of Transport the number of toll bridges and roads now operating under the nationalised transport system; and if he will give the number of roads and bridges under this control which have been freed from toll since nationalisation.

The answer to the first part of the Question is 10 toll bridges and two toll roads: the answer to the second part is "None."

Does not the Minister feel that it is disgraceful that the State should take over these undertakings and perpetuate road and bridge tolls? Are the public to get nothing out of nationalisation but higher fares?

I do not consider that it is a disgraceful state of affairs. The hon. Member will recollect that the Chancellor of the Exchequer indicated some time ago some of the directions in which economy should be attained, and this was one that he specifically mentioned. That being so, I am unable at present to make any grant in that direction.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will make a further statement about the freeing of Lymington toll bridge, consequent upon the negotiation between the Hampshire County Council and the Railway Executive.

I am informed by the British Transport Commission that there have been no recent negotiations between the Railway Executive and the Hampshire County Council for the freeing of Lymington toll bridge. Grants towards the cost of extinguishing tolls cannot be made at present, but I propose to consult the British Transport Commission and the Hampshire County Council as to whether it would be practicable to arrive at a settlement which could be implemented when such grants again become available.

In view of such grants being available, may I ask is the Minister aware that the Railway Executive have said they have no statutory authority to free such tolls and is not this another case where the public are being penalised in order that the losses of the Railway Executive can be minimised? Will the right hon. Gentleman take action about it?

No, Sir, I do not think that conclusion is correct. I can understand that possibly there has been no anxiety to proceed with these negotiations because both bodies are aware that at the moment I cannot make a grant. That was the reason why, in my reply, I said that I would bring them together to see if they can agree, so that when grants are available there will be no further delay.

Following that further information, will the Minister say when these grants will be made available because, on his own statement, until they are available nothing can be done? Will he give us some idea of the time limit?

As the hon. and gallant Member is aware, my Departmental Vote is granted year by year, and I cannot anticipate what my Vote will be in the future.

As legislation exists giving county councils powers to take over these toll bridges and roads, should not the question of grants go to arbitration? Surely it could be settled by a loan, a grant being given at a later date. There is no reason to hold the matter up.

No, Sir, I do not think that the local authorities would proceed on that basis.

asked the Minister of Transport if he has considered the desirability of compelling drivers over a certain age to undergo a further driving test; and what decision he has reached.

Yes, Sir, and my present view is that the introduction of legislation to impose such a requirement would not be justified.

Is the Minister not aware that, with the increasing number of cars on the roads and the lack of further road improvement facilities, driving is becoming more and more hazardous? Should there not be some safeguard of this kind?

I am, unfortunately, aware of the increase in accidents, but I do not think that that would justify me in introducing a new series of tests for persons of a certain age, especially when the examiners' department is rather hard pressed to deal with current applications.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will make a statement on the increase in road accidents since the removal of petrol rationing; and the steps taken to prevent them.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the increase in the number of road accidents since the removal of petrol rationing; and what measures he is taking to minimise the loss of life on the roads.

Since the end of petrol rationing I regret that more accidents have resulted. The total road casualties in June, July and August, 1950, were 61,926 as compared with 50,449 in the corresponding period of 1949. They were, however, 4,868 less than the 1938 figure. Almost all road accidents are caused by human error and the effect of action by central and local authorities is limited. I hope in due course to give effect by legislation to certain recommendations of the late Committee on Road Safety.

I am, however, discussing with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary whether the police can make any further contribution towards the solution of this problem, having regard to the general demand made on the time of the police and to the manpower difficulties in many police forces. In present circumstances expenditure on road improvements must be kept to a minimum, but I always endeavour to give assistance where it is shown that road conditions are causing road accidents. In the difficult circumstances I would urge the need for extreme care and courtesy by everyone on the roads.

While the Minister is giving his attention to this matter, will he bear in mind that many of the human errors to which he refers could be avoided if the necessary road improvements were carried out, many of which would not involve much expenditure?

Yes, Sir, I am fully aware of that, and no one regrets the need for economy in this direction more than I do.

While making all allowance for all other factors, is it not a fact that bad driving is the main reason for these accidents, and as there are thousands of people who have never passed a driving test at all will the Minister look again at the whole question of imposing tests upon all who drive on the roads?

No, Sir, I really could not allow the statement to pass in this House that the majority of the accidents are due to bad driving.

In view of the very great anxiety which exists in the country about this matter, which, I know, the Minister fully shares, may I ask whether he has studied the special efforts which were made by the Lancashire County Police to deal with this problem?

Yes, Sir. Those experiments were very much appreciated. As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents and my Department take note of all these experiments and bring them to the attention of other authorities.

Would the Minister consider following the example of Sweden and bringing in legislation to forbid the blowing of horns? This would make both the pedestrian and the motorist much more careful. Will the Minister answer this because it is a very important question.

Will my right hon. Friend consider the desirability of some driving tests taking place at night, because the fact that a person can pass a test in day-time is no indication that he can do so at night?

I can quite understand the desire to increase the severity of the driving test, but, as experience shows, it is not always efficiency in a driving test that matters but what happens in moments of forgetfulness or carelessness, even in the case of experienced drivers. While a test helps to establish a standard of efficiency before a person takes to the road, it would be a mistake to think that there is any short cut to the elimination of accidents by this means.

Will the right hon. Gentleman seriously consider giving more publicity to the appalling road accident figures? That is probably the best way of getting the dangers of the road home to the people of the country.

I should point out that since the end of the war considerable sums have been spent on publicity campaigns.

I meant publicity for the figures and not awful pictures of a lady weeping for people lost on the roads.

As a matter of fact, the poster upon which the hon. and gallant Gentleman is commenting adversely proved to be one of the best posters we have issued on this pattern.

asked the Minister of Transport if he has any further information to add to that contained in his letter of 30th September, about the accident which occurred in Marsh Lane, Leeds, on Sunday, 17th September.

Since this accident occurred, there have been two further similar incidents. All three suggest wilful action and are being investigated by the authorities and there is nothing can add at this stage.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will introduce amending legislation to confer on municipal boroughs and county district councils the right to lodge objections to passenger charges schemes.

No, Sir. On the experience of the recent proceedings on the London Area Passenger Charges Scheme I consider that the scope for lodging objections is already sufficiently wide and that any extension would only lead to duplication and unnecessarily long proceedings.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a situation might arise in which a county council did not wish to object to a scheme but some of the municipal boroughs or district councils within the county did wish to do so? What happens then? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there is a great deal of feeling among county district councils and municipal boroughs about this matter?

I should think that there are plenty of other facilities which could be used in such a case, but if there was a sufficiently large body of opinion in any' area I should have thought that the county council ought to voice those views. I am unable to concede the point, but there should be other facilities and I will indicate to the hon. Member what they are.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, pending the publication of the charges scheme sent to his Department, he will consider an interim measure to ease the burden of high freight and passenger charges which bear very heavily on those living in areas remote from markets, and particularly in the Scottish Highlands and Islands.

No, Sir. Any question of reducing the fares and rates to and from particular areas is one for the British Transport Commission and, in certain circumstances, for the Transport Tribunal.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it is a long time for these parts of the country to wait for this charges scheme to come out and that, in the meantime, these freight and passenger charges are bearing heavily on life there? Is he aware that there is no measure that would help life in the remote areas of the country more than reduced and equitable freight and passenger charges?

In view of the discussions which have taken place in this House, I think that the formidable character of the charges scheme is appreciated. As I have said, the Transport Commission hope to have their charges scheme, which will be of a more general character, ready by about the middle of next year.

Does not the Ministry give the Commission a statement of policy on an important question like this?

That is a matter for the Transport Tribunal, as laid down in the Transport Act.

Will the right hon. Gentleman break his unhappy rule of silence and send some specific directions on this matter to the Transport Tribunal?

It is not a question of breaking an unhappy rule of silence. Parliament has laid down that matters of this kind should be determined on a scheme framed by the Transport Commission and settled by the Transport Tribunal. If I went back on the directions of Parliament, hon. Members would soon be singing another tune.

Is it not the case that a responsibility is imposed on Parliament for the well-being of the people in these remote areas, and is it not time that the Minister took some steps to deal with this serious problem, since many businesses are closing because of the high burden of rail prices?

asked the Minister of Transport what has been the approximate cost to date of maintenance work on the unfinished Ashford, Kent, by-pass, on which work has been suspended; and, approximately, how much is being spent on this work each month.

The total to date is about £20,000. The average monthly expenditure recently has been about £570.

Is the Minister aware that he would probably save public money if he got on with the scheme and allowed it to be completed? In view of the answer which he has just given about road safety, will he have another look at the scheme, particularly in view of the fact that the Minister of Town and Country Planning is proposing to double the size of his town and that the roads, including the main coast road, are already dangerous and chaotic? Will he have another look at this?

If looking at a scheme could solve the problem I should do it repeatedly. While this scheme ranks very high in priority it had, unfortunately, to be stopped under the general restrictions which I mentioned earlier.

asked the Minister of Transport what reply has been sent to the Traders' Panel, Lincoln area, in answer to their protest of 15th September with regard to the Transport Users' Consultative Committee; and if he will divide the East Anglian area into two parts as requested.

I have explained to the Traders' Panel the reasons why it was proposed to include Lincolnshire in the area of the Transport Users' Consultative Committee for East Anglia. Since that reply was sent, the Central Transport Consultative Committee have suggested to me that Lincolnshire would be more appropriately included in the East Midland area, and I have decided to accept this view.

Is the right hon. Gentleman sure that this alteration will meet the wishes of the traders who complained? If the consultative committee is to do its work the area must be small or else people will not go to the meetings from such a large county.

I should have thought that this largely meets their point of view, but it was the consultative committee for the United Kingdom to which I was referring and not to a local consultative committee. It was the United Kingdom consultative committee which made representations to me and I decided to accept its recommendations.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the unsightliness of foot bridges over the London by-passes and the fact that these bridges are little used, he will now consider scrapping them.

Until economic circumstances permit satisfactory alternatives such as subways to be considered I prefer to retain them and to improve their appearance by cleaning and painting and their usefulness by providing guard rails and ramps where necessary.

In considering how unpopular these bridges are in the district and how very little use they are for safety purposes, will the right hon. Gentleman at least scrap those which are least used by pedestrians in every day life?

I do not agree that they are unpopular. There may be differences of opinion as to their effectiveness but I cannot afford to do away with anything which can assist in the problem of reducing road accidents until I have better alternatives, and a subway is too costly for me to consider it as an immediate alternative.

Has the Minister considered extending an experiment successfully made at Osterley on the Great West Road, at a point which is especially dangerous because oncoming traffic is obscured? Railings have been put along the centre of the road to prevent people crossing at that point.

I agree that that was a very valuable experiment. I have no doubt that if similar conditions prevail at other busy thoroughfares rails will also be introduced. Rails are being more and more extensively used for this purpose.

asked the Minister of Transport what date has been fixed for the replacement of the trams in The Broadway, Wimbledon, by buses.

As announced by the London Transport Executive last July, it is expected that the tram services in Wimbledon will be replaced by buses next January.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware that the stevedore machinery at Immingham is largely out of date and frequently breaks down, causing loss of trade to the port and unemployment in the district; and what plans he has for modernising the equipment and making greater use of this deep sea port.

I understand that the only stevedoring machinery in the port of Immingham is that provided by the British Transport Commission. Any necessary modernisation of such equipment and the development of the port are matters for them.

Is the Minister aware that there has been no new machinery in that dock for years, that the dockers are very dissatisfied because they feel that money is being spent at other ports. while nothing is being spent there, and that they wonder if it is the policy of the right hon. Gentleman's Department to freeze out this port altogether?

The Ministry are not responsible for any machinery which the hon. Member claims is out-of-date and obsolete, but I am informed that trade is not being diverted because of any circumstances of that kind.

Can my right hon. Friend say how much compensation was paid for this out-of-date and obsolete machinery?

No, Sir, I cannot. That was settled in a global calculation.

Would not the Minister agree, since the dockers there feel they are not getting a square deal, that he is now responsible?

I am not responsible. It is a matter for the B.T.C.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the many fatal road accidents which has occurred at the junction of Kidbrooke Park Road and Weigall Road, near the entrance to No. 1 Site, Royal Air Force Station, Kidbrooke, on the borders of Eltham; and if he will consider giving instructions for the dismantling of the blockhouse erected during the late war which occupies the position of a roundabout and obscures the vision of cyclists and motorists at this point, which has resulted in loss of life.

I am aware of one fatal accident at this spot. The Greenwich Borough Council have been authorised to remove the road block and will no doubt be putting the work in hand shortly.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will now clarify the regulations about the use of pedestrian crossings at road junctions by pedestrians.

I have considered the need for amending the pedestrian crossing places regulations in conjunction with the revision of policy in relation to the provision, siting and marking of crossings and I hope to make a statement in the near future.

In view of the serious misunderstandings that exist about the use of pedestrian crossings, if I put a Question down in a week's time will my right hon. Friend be able to give the regulations?

I could not guarantee the period of a week, but I assure my hon. Friend that I am desperately anxious to get the largest measure of agreement on this and, as far as I can, to get the largest consensus of opinion in the House behind the new regulations.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will introduce legislation with a view to making Highland ferries part of the highway.

A Measure is in course of preparation to assist in bringing ferries into closer integration with the highway system.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it is hoped this will result in cheaper fares and a more efficient service?

asked the Minister of Supply what disciplinary action is taken against officers of his Department who mislay confidential documents relating to the defence of the realm.

The disciplinary action taken would depend on the circumstances of any particular case.

Having regard to what has happened since this Question was put down, can the Minister say what steps are taken when his Ministry mislays not only documents but scientists?

asked the Minister of Supply what steps he takes to ensure that work performed for his Department is carried out efficiently; and if he will in future put out all work done for his Department to open tender.

Contracts are placed only with firms which have satisfied my Department of their competence to undertake the orders and there are appropriate arrangements for inspection of the work. Contracts are placed as a result of competitive tendering to the fullest extent practicable.

When the Minister says "to the fullest extent practicable," does he not realise that if competition is stopped, efficiency goes down and costs go up, and that Government Departments cannot do the work so well as private firms who tender competitively?

asked the Minister of Supply why his Department sold 360 vehicles of various types in Germany at a lower price than that obtainable in this country; and what was the exact amount of the difference, including the cost of shipping.

Stores declared surplus abroad have usually been brought home for sale only when special needs and shortages have to be met. The average cost of returning heavy vehicles from depots in Germany to auction centres at home would be about £100 each. It is impossible to calculate the amount that would have been obtained by sale in this country.

Even so, does not the Minister realise that if he had brought them home he could have got a better price for them, and has not the right hon. Gentleman any regard at all for the overburdened taxpayers of this country?

It may be that if we had brought them home we would have got a better price. One could not tell that before the auction took place; it is not certain that we would have got a better price.

asked the Minister of Supply (1) if, in view of his decision to reduce the rate of delivery of zinc to British consumers to approximately 75 per cent. of their 1950 intake, he will immediately take the steps necessary to return the buying of this metal to private hands;

(2) if he will allow private consumers to buy zinc in dollar or soft currency countries and import it to supplement supplies from his Department.

Owing to the limited amount of zinc that can be obtained in world markets at present, central purchase by my Department ensures that available supplies are distributed fairly in the national interest and that prices are not increased as a result of competitive buying by private consumers. If the hon. Member has any knowledge about additional sources of supply of zinc, I shall be glad if he will inform me.

How does the Minister expect British industry to function when one month he says he has ample supplies of zinc and the following month he cuts consumers by 25 per cent? Why does he allow the import of manufactured zinc at fancy prices and not allow the raw zinc to be brought here and manufactured much more cheaply?

The supplies of zinc which normally we get from Europe suddenly and unexpectedly dried up and we found ourselves at a certain stage without the zinc we required. Secondary zinc can be imported from non-dollar countries privately, but I understand that there is none available and, therefore, there is no likelihood of getting any such supplies into this country.

I did not refer to secondary zinc but to manufactured zinc. The Minister allowed manufactured zinc to be imported but not unmanufactured zinc. Surely it is wrong to pay a manufacturing cost abroad when we can perfectly well manufacture the zinc in this country?

I do not think so. It would depend, of course, on the type of manufactured zinc the hon. Member is talking about, but the shortage which has developed in raw zinc—in virgin zinc—would certainly not be improved in any way if private traders entered the market.

When the Minister says there is only a limited amount of zinc, does he mean the price the Ministry is prepared to pay or what is available in the world markets? Further, does he really mean, in relation to the known rise in the cost of all these raw materials, that the Ministry is willing to pay the increased price in relation to other raw materials?

No, the zinc is simply not available. It is not on sale anywhere.

asked the Minister of Supply what progress has been made in the negotiations to reduce the forward premium on raw copper which his Department recently imposed.

The matter has been discussed with industry, but no alternative generally acceptable to consumers has been found. I am prepared to consider any further representations which industry may wish to make.

Is it not up to the Minister, who has imposed this fine on manufacturers of large plant, on whom the export drive depends, to put these recommendations forward? Will he not look again at this and stop this fining?

There is no question of fining. We say that if anyone wants to buy forward copper, which consumers in the United States are quite unable to do, a certain premium is chargeable, which is in conformity with old custom in the Metal Exchange before the war. As there is a possibility of considerable further rises in the price of the materials, it is only right that people who want to buy forward should pay some premium for the privilege.

asked the Minister of Supply what orders have been placed with Scottish Aviation, Limited, as a result of the rearmament drive approved by His Majesty's Government.

It would be contrary to established practice to give information about armament orders placed with particular firms.

That means nothing. Why do the Government and the Minister treat this company like a pariah amongst aircraft manufacturing units, since they have the facilities, the skill and the craftsmanship to turn out the equal of the best? Why does the Minister do this kind of thing?

This company is treated in the same way as any other company.

In view of the order which the Minister has given for prefabricated plumbing units to the Scottish Aviation Company, will he give some advance orders for the 300,000 houses that are contemplated?

I have not said anything to suggest that this firm has not received, or is not likely to receive, orders.

Is my right hon. Friend aware—if the Order Paper is to be used for these ebullitions of local patriotism—that the firm of A. V. Roe, of Chadderton, is larger, better equipped and more adequately staffed than Scottish Aviation, Ltd., and that Lancashire has more people, more brains and more money than Scotland?

On a point of order. Must a Member be criticised for trying to ask questions on behalf of his constituents?

asked the Minister of Supply the total value of defence orders placed with industry and Royal Ordnance factories by him in furtherance of the Government's additional Defence programme announced in August; and if he will give separate figures for each of the three Services.

The value of defence orders actually placed and under active negotiation by my Department up to 14th October, 1950, under the recent Defence programmes announced in July and August amounts to nearly £66 million. It would not be in the national interest to disclose the value of the orders placed for each of the three Services.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that he is getting on fast enough with the placing of these orders, in view of the importance of speed, which has been stressed quite recently to us by the Minister of Defence? Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that there is no unnecessary delay?

Yes, Sir, I think that the whole thing is moving rapidly.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether it is due to the Defence programme that there is a growing delay in supplying steel to civilian industry?

Will the Minister bear in mind the number of industries who are holding open their capacity awaiting orders from his Ministry? They have been waiting for them a long time. Will the right hon. Gentleman please speed them up?

I am not aware of that. We have informed industry that if they have any orders, or prospect of orders, for export they should take those orders and not wait for any possible armament orders.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he will institute an immediate review of salary scales for research scientists and workers engaged in atomic energy projects in view of the inadequacy of the present rates.

No, Sir. The pay of research scientists and workers in my Department is under continual review.

Is it not the fact that scientists and workers engaged in atomic energy, from Sir John Cockroft—£2,400 a year—downwards are earning, on average, less than half the amount that their equivalents in private industry are earning, and does not that very largely explain the fact that, 10 years after starting on the atomic energy programme, we are still not anywhere near having produced an atomic bomb ourselves and have been outstripped by the Soviet Union?

I do not accept the contention of the hon. Member that the pay is so much less than in private industry; it simply is not true, particularly since the Chorley Committee Report has been put into application.

Surely the Minister will agree that Sir John Cockcroft's equivalent in private industry is earning much more than twice as much as Sir John Cockroft's £2,400 a year.

Would it not be best to see that the travelling allowances are not quite sufficient to enable scientists to get as far as Leningrad?

asked the Minister of Supply what representations have been received by his Department on the subject of the revised covenant governing the purchase of new motorcars which the industry proposes to introduce next year.

None, Sir. I have asked the motor industry to consider ways and means of removing abuses in the distribution of new cars in the home market, including an extension of the period of the covenant. I have not yet been informed what action they propose to take.

asked the Minister of Works what licences he has granted for the erection and extension of Labour clubs in Haydock, Newton and Wigan; whether he will state the reasons for the grant of these licences; and whether he is prepared to grant equally liberal facilities for the improvement to public houses and other political and non-political clubs in these areas.

Licences have been granted for the erection or extension of four Labour clubs in these areas because of structural defects or inadequacy of the former premises. Licences would have been issued in the same circumstances for any other clubs, political or non-political. If a similar need could have been shown for public houses, they would also have received licences.

The right hon. Gentleman says that licences have been issued for the remedying of structural defects, but is it not a fact that licences totalling £21,000 have been issued for the erection of a new Labour Club at Blackbrook and that another licence has been issued for £11,500 for the erection of the Labour Club at Haydock, opposite the existing club? Are these not facts?

I do not know about the first one—I am not briefed on it—but as far as Haydock is concerned the new building cost £8,500. Perhaps I should add, for the information of the right hon. Member, that a licence was also issued to a Conservative club.

Will my right hon. Friend review the whole question of issuing licences where there are difficulties of getting bricklayers to work on the housing programme in areas like this? Is he aware that there is a lot of resentment in Liverpool that a licence for £1,268,000 was issued to Lord Woolton for the building of Lewis's?

I cannot deal with the last part of that question, because I do not know the facts, but I can assure my hon. Friend that the question of these licences is really very closely watched. Where there is a shortage of building labour or material they are not issued at all.

Since the areas concerned are all represented by Labour Members of Parliament, is not this a flagrant case of political discrimination?

No.

The question happens to refer to Labour clubs. If the House wishes to know it, a licence was issued to the Conservative Club at Newton-le-Willows and to the British Legion. If more information is required, I shall be very glad to give it.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give instances of where he has issued licences on this sort of scale for the erection of clubs of other parties and non-political clubs?

I am sure that I could, with notice, but not in the constituency of the right hon. Member, except for the club to which I have referred.

asked the Minister of Works what is the annual cost of the salaries of his staff in India; how many people do they provide with office accommodation; and what is the annual cost of these salaries per person housed.

The annual cost of the salaries of my staff in India, numbering 50, is £21,025, exclusive of allowances; they provide office accommodation for about 885 people. This is only one of their duties and the cost of their salaries cannot be specifically related to the number of people so housed. I hope to take an early opportunity of consulting the High Commissioner about the services needed.

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered whether it would be cheaper to carry out this work by some alternative method, such as employing local architects and technicians?

Yes, I have. The whole question of employment of overseas staff has been under examination since I took office and I hope to make a statement soon. It is a difficult question and one cannot come to very quick decisions. I can only say I have it under review and I hope to take the fullest advantage of modern transport.

asked the Minister of Works how far the East Ashford Rural District Council was consulted by his Department before the granting of licences to the value of £2,688 for the repair of Denwood Farm, Crundale, Kent, particulars of which have already been sent to him.

For the reasons explained to the hon. Member in a letter of 26th August, the East Ashford Rural District Council was not consulted about this case.

Can the Minister say why the decision was taken by his Department over the heads of the local authority and why, when, on grounds of agriculture the licence had been refused, they turned to the excuse of ancient building? What excuse was there for doing that?

The facts were explained in the letter to the hon. Member, to which I have referred. A licence was not issued for a farmhouse at all, but because the house was considered suitable for preservation as an historic building and it is desirable that it should be repaired and occupied.

asked the Minister of Work what grounds the Royal Fine Art Commission for Scotland gave for advising him that the new Government offices in George Street, Glasgow, should be of stone of a colour not obtainable in Scotland.

The advice given by the Royal Fine Art Commission for Scotland was that, for the design of the building which had been decided upon, cream coloured stone was preferable to any red sandstone. The Commission gave no grounds for this view.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the building immediately beside this site is of red sandstone, that the building diametrically opposite is also of red sandstone and many others, and that an opportunity has been missed of giving a fillip to the Scottish freestone industry at a time when it is badly needed?

Yes, I am aware of that, but I am a great believer in variety being the spice of life.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in Scotland there are ample supplies of beautiful stone of other colours, including granite at Aberdeen and Peterhead, and can he say why it was not used?

If my hon. and learned Friend will tell me where it can be found I will have a look at it, but not in connection with this building. Exhaustive inquiries were made, but it was not possible to obtain a suitable cream-coloured stone from Scottish quarries.

Can my right hon. Friend tell me where red sandstone is produced?

Yes, I could.

asked the Minister of Works how many persons have been prosecuted for leaving litter in the Royal Parks since 10th July, 1950; and if he is satisfied with the number and size of receptacles provided.

There has been one prosecution since 10th July, 1950. In this case the offender refused to pick up litter deposited by her, when required to do so by a park keeper. She was fined 20s. For normal occasions I am satisfied with the number and size of the receptacles but I am making arrangements to increase their number during the weekends of the spring and summer months.

Does the answer of the right hon. Gentleman mean that less litter has been deposited in the parks, or that his Department have not been prosecuting strongly enough?

The position is a little better. These prosecutions are not very popular. I am doing my best. It is always difficult to get proof, but I think that on the whole the situation is improving.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make it clear that neither the absence of litter baskets nor their fulness will be considered an excuse for throwing paper down in the parks?

I quite agree, and I am at present in course of organising an anti-litter campaign.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will make a statement regarding the policy at present being pursued by his Department, with regard to the removal of concrete and other obstructions remaining on private land; and what steps he intends to take to ensure the speedy removal of these obstructions, or the payment of adequate compensation to the owners concerned.

When it is in the public interest that war works should be removed from private land, it is the practice for my Department to make the necessary arrangements either directly before the de-requisitioning of the land or by a contribution to the owner in accordance with Section 52 of the Requisitioned Land and War Works Act, 1945. The work is done as quickly as possible but there are many competing claims for such plant and labour as can be made available, and I am not in a position to promise a general acceleration of the programme.

May I ask how the right hon. Gentleman defines public interest in connection with this matter?

That must be a matter of opinion, but I can assure the hon. Member that I am in full sympathy with the intention of his Question and that I am doing my best.

asked the Minister of Works what will be the approximate cost of the block of offices to be built in the Headrow, Leeds, for which a licence has just been issued; how long will it take to complete the building; and how many building workers will be employed.

The approximate cost of this block of offices is £600,000, of which about one quarter was spent before the war. The licence has not yet been issued. It is estimated that 140 men will be required for two years.

Did my right hon. Friend state that this licence has not been issued, because it has already been stated in the Press that such a licence has been granted? Is he further aware of the very great difficulty we are having in Leeds in respect of building and give an assurance that such licences will not be issued while these building difficulties continue?

There is a confusion of terms. It is true to say that, in principle, it has been agreed that the building shall be completed, but no licence to commence has been issued, and none will be issued until the building situation in Leeds has improved.

Who will use the building when completed—the Labour Party?

I do not yet know who will occupy it.

asked the Prime Minister what are the rules governing the acceptance or retention of directorships by chairmen or other full-time members of the boards of nationalised industries.

The practice is to require a full-time member of the board of a socialised industry to resign, or refrain from accepting, any directorship the retention of which is likely in the opinion of the Minister concerned to affect prejudicially the discharge by him of his functions.

asked the Prime Minister what is the annual number of licence applications at present being dealt with by the various Government Departments estimated on the same basis as the figures given in the schedule to the Herbert Committee Report on the Work of Intermediaries.

The figures given in the report of the Committee on Intermediaries were compiled on the basis of the written evidence supplied by Government Departments in March, 1949, for the purposes of the Committee. The situation has greatly changed since then, as a result of the many subsequent relaxations of controls; but I should not feel justified in asking Departments to undertake the considerable extra work which would be involved in maintaining these returns on an up-to-date basis.

asked the Prime Minister for what reason the decision to proceed with Civil Defence recruiting at the same time leaving the Home Guard in abeyance, was taken.

In my recent broadcast to the country, I explained the reasons for which the Government decided to proceed with Civil Defence preparations and recruiting for part-time services. The Government have under consideration the question of raising a Home Guard in a future emergency, and a statement will be made as soon as possible.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if it should ever become necessary to call up Civil Defence personnel it is highly probable that it would be necessary also to have the Home Guard in being? Will he not so delay the decision to recruit the Home Guard that there is time properly to train people commensurately with Civil Defence?

I do not think I can accept the statement of the hon. and gallant Member. It must depend on what is the kind of danger facing the country, but the question of the Home Guard is one which must be considered with the general matter of Armed Forces.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will move to set up a Select Committee to consider what changes are necessary in the Rules of this House relating to Private Business.

Select Committees have been appointed in the past at intervals to inquire into specific matters relating to Private Bills and Private Business. The last Committee was appointed during the Session 1944–45, when the Standing Orders relating to Private Business were completely revised. I consider that no useful purpose would be served by appointing a further committee at present.

Does that answer mean that the right hon. Gentleman is satisfied with the working of the present Rules in respect of Private Business and does he recall the difficulties which arose in the summer in connection with the passing of several Bills which, although private in form, aroused public interest?

I can only say I am never satisfied about anything, but, as near as it is possible to be satisfied, I do not think there is a sufficient case to appoint a committee at the moment. I am quite prepared to keep the matter in mind for a future occasion.

asked the Lord President of the Council how much art paper is being used for programmes and propaganda purposes for the Festival of Britain.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Ashford (Mr. Deedes) on 17th October.

Is it not a fact that these requirements for advertising the Festival of Britain required about 1,600 tons of paper, which necessitated a reduction of 11 per cent. to the trade? Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware of the rising criticisms of this expenditure while the needs of the people are so acute?

No, Sir. The hon. Member has his facts wrong.

asked the Lord President of the Council what plans are being made for the use of the Festival of Britain buildings after the Festival has ended.

A number of the Festival of Britain exhibitions and other events are being held in existing buildings. At South Kensington part of a new block is being built in time for the Science Exhibition. This new block, when completed, will afterwards form part of the Science Museum. The architecture and town planning exhibition at Poplar will consist mainly of blocks of flats, schools and other buildings erected by the local authorities for the permanent use of the neighbourhood. On the South Bank, apart from the L.C.C.'s Royal Festival Hall which is permanent, the remaining buildings will have to be removed after the Festival as the site is needed for other purposes. Some, including the main structure of the Dome of Discovery, are so designed that they can be dismantled and re-erected elsewhere. Certain of the structures in the Festival Pleasure Gardens, Battersea Park, will also be retained as permanent amenities.

What are the purposes for which the South Bank is to be used? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of considerable indignation at the fact that apparently only one of the buildings there is likely to be of a permanent nature?

As to what the site is to be used for, that is not my business. That question should be addressed to another Minister.

Would it not be possible to adapt these buildings so that they could be used to relieve living accommodation in other parts of London?

I should not have thought so.

What will it cost to remove these buildings and make the site available for the purposes which the Minister has indicated?

I could not say without notice. In any case it is a site which is inevitably one for commercial development.

Could the Minister say whether the price of this demolition was included in the estimates he has given of the cost of constructing the buildings for the exhibition?

asked the Lord President of the Council why His Majesty's Government have given to a particular firm the responsibility for the allocation of all advertisement space in the official programmes to be produced for the Festival of Britain.

The firm was selected after careful inquiry from among the very limited number possessing the necessary organisation for doing this work in the time available. It would not have been practicable to divide the work among several firms.

One firm was probably the right solution, but I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that one of the directors of this firm is the Chief Planning Officer of the Government? Does the right hon. Gentleman think it right for a contract of this nature to be given to a firm a director of which holds such a Government position?

I did not know that but I know the Chief Planning Officer of the Government, and of all the men in the world I would acquit of any improper conduct it is the Chief Planning Officer of the Government.

I agree with what the right hon. Gentleman has said about the person concerned, but that is not the point. It is whether it is right that a contract of this nature should be given to a firm one of the directors of which is a member of the Government in the sphere I have indicated.

I cannot see that there is anything fatal about it. This happened to be the most appropriate firm. The choice is very limited, and had we denied ourselves the services of this firm we should have been in difficulties. I repeat, I am perfectly certain that the Chief Planning Officer of the Government is the last person in the world who would be capable of any improper conduct and unless the hon. and gallant Member can follow up these implications and innuendoes—

Oh.

asked the Lord President of the Council what steps are being taken by the Medical Research Council and other bodies to make available for sufferers from rheumatoid arthritis the drug cortisone, now being produced in the United States of America; and whether adequate funds to develop this research are, and will continue, to be made available to these bodies.

An extensive programme of co-ordinated research on cortisone and related substances is being carried out under the auspices of the Medical Research Council and other bodies; I understand that adequate funds are available to develop the work. The question of providing cortisone for the routine treatment of patients is outside the Council's province, but I am advised that much more research is necessary before cortisone could safely be recommended for general use in rheumatoid arthritis.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the intense anxiety of sufferers from this dread disease, and their friends, and will he do everything to encourage research and see that plenty of money is available for this very vital need?

I am aware of the point to which my hon. Friend has drawn attention. I am sure that we have all great sympathy with the sufferers from this trouble, and I can assure my hon. Friend that I will give sympathetic consideration to anything we can do on the lines of what we are doing or additionally.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the treatment of this disease by cortisone is very much in the experimental stage, and is proving to have serious effects on patients, particularly women? In view of that fact will my right hon. Friend assure the House that this drug will not yet be made available to the public?

There is real point in what my hon. and gallant Friend has just said. It is certainly an important consideration which we must keep in mind.

Is it a fact that, as reported, cortisone is being made available at drug stores in the United States next month? Will the Lord President make sure that the Medical Research Council keeps in touch with America on this subject.

Yes, there is no doubt about that. I do not know whether it is being made available in drug stores in the United States, but it does not follow that it should be made available here.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how many members of the Soviet armed forces have deserted to the British zones in Germany and Austria since 1945, showing each year separately; how many such persons have been handed back to the Soviet authorities; how many have remained in British hands as political refugees; and if he will give an assurance that all future deserters will be treated as political refugees, unless there are over-riding security reasons.

It would not be in the public interest to disclose detailed figures of Soviet deserters. As regards the policy of His Majesty's Government, I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the Minister of State's reply of 4th July, 1949, to the right hon. Member for Ipswich (Mr. Stokes), of which I am sending him the text. I have nothing to add to this statement except that it applies equally to political refugees reaching the British zone of Austria.

Is not the Under-Secretary aware that the forcible repatriation, during the last five years, of large numbers of Soviet officers and other ranks has meant that desertion to the Western world has largely ceased? Should not this policy be made widely known through the B.B.C.?

I cannot accept the assumption in the hon. and gallant Member's supplementary question. All I can say is that no Soviet deserters who come to the British zone are forcibly repatriated, and we have every intention of maintaining our tradition of political asylum.