asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will consider taking steps to institute a uniform retail price for coal throughout the country.

I regret that, for reasons which I have previously explained, it is not practicable to do what my hon. Friend suggests, and that to attempt to do so would probably cause more hardships and anomalies than it would relieve.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a ton of coal in Southampton costs from £1 to 30s. more than it does in the Midlands and in the North of England? Is that justifiable under a system of national ownership? Can he even things out a bit more?

I have considered this very carefully, but it so happens that most of the coalfields are in parts of the country where the climate is very hard and people need more coal for domestic consumption. If the prices were uniform the cost to those people would have to rise steeply and would create considerable hardship.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what arrangements he has made for the summer stocking up of anthracite.

Arrangements have been made to enable programmed consumers, that is to say, industrial firms, hospitals, and so on, to build up the stocks they need during the summer months. The arrangements are designed to ensure that they get not only the quantities, but also the grades, of anthracite they need.

Does that programme include horticulturalists, to whom this is of very great importance?

Yes, Sir. I believe it does.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some domestic users also require anthracite, which is absolutely unobtainable in some parts of Scotland? What does he propose to do about it?

Anthracite is in very short supply, largely owing to the lamentable situation in which the anthracite field was left when the Coal Board took over. The Board are spending a great deal of money in re-organising that field and hope to reopen a pit very soon.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain how it was that until the Coal Board took over we could always get anthracite?

One of the reasons is that full employment has greatly increased the demand for anthracite.

Are any arrangements being made about summer prices for anthracite?

Perhaps the hon. and gallant Member will put question down.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is aware that there is a serious shortage of boiler fuel in the Orpington area; and, in view of the fact that a high proportion of the houses are fitted with independent hot water boilers, if he will take immediate steps to remedy the position.

More boiler fuel was received in the Orpington area in the 12 months which ended on 30th April last than in the corresponding period a year ago, and my inquiries do not show that any special difficulty has occurred. But, as I have said, the general demand for boiler fuel is increasing fast. The National Coal Board are doing everything they can to increase supplies of anthracite and phurnacite, and I am now considering how the distribution of coke can be improved.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that, in spite of the disastrous effect of nationalisation, the Orpington area will at least get its fair share of what is available?

Yes, Sir, Orpington has always had and will continue to have a fair share.

That is not true.

The allocation is made by the House Coal Scheme, which is run by the coal merchants.

Will my right hon. Friend arrange for a mobile van to go to Orpington for a fortnight to recruit miners?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power (1) to what extent the reclassification of household coal will provide safeguards that uniformity of quality is achieved and maintained, within each of the eight groups, in each of the 60 zones provided for in new price structure of the National Coal Board;

(2) the maximum permitted percentage of dirt and deleterious matter in the eight groups specified in the arrangements for reclassification of household coal; and what redress can be obtained by the household consumer in the event of such maxima being exceeded.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he is taking to ensure that the information published in the fuel offices and merchants' offices of the quality of the domestic coal to be supplied by the Coal Board under the new selling scheme will be sufficiently clear in analysis to allow easy check by analysis of the quality of coal delivered.

The National Coal Board and the distributive coal trade are agreed that the analysis of coal by calorific value and ash content would not provide a satisfactory basis for the price structure of household coal. The Board have an organisation at their pits to ensure that the coal which is classified as belonging to any given group is of the proper quality. The merchants, of course, examine the coal which they receive to see that it is up to standard. If the quality of a particular coal deteriorates, either because of changes in the seam, or for some other reason, that coal will be re-classified in a lower and cheaper group.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's reply about re-classification mean that there will not be abated even one jot the principal complaint of the domestic consumer, which is dirty and slaty coal? Why cannot the consumer sue the Coal Board in those circumstances?

We must get this point quite clear. Is it not correct that in the statement orginally made, I understand not in this House, it was said that these qualities of coal were to be subject to analysis? What rights has either a merchant or a subsequent purchaser if the coal delivered by the Coal Board is below the standard set out in the fuel offices?

As I tried to explain in my answer, analysis by calorific value does not give what is required because some fuels of very high calorific value are difficult to light or have other characteristics which are irritating to the housewife. The price structure must be based on the characteristics that will suit the consumer.

Even if calorific value may be difficult for the housewife to understand, why cannot there be an ash test, as all housewives understand the pro-proportion of ash in the coal? That is a very simple test.

If there is a very high ash content it will tend to put the coal in a lower category, other things being equal. Under this scheme the householder will pay less for that coal than previously.

The Minister says that the ash content does not matter and that the calorific value does not matter. Will he tell us what does matter in classifying coal?

Yes. I have said that both those things are factors, but there are also other factors. [HON. MEMBERS: "What are they?"] Intensity of radiation—in other words, the heat that the coal gives out in domestic use—the ease with which it is lighted, the way in which it keeps burning, and other things to which the housewife attaches importance.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is the common experience of most Members of the House and of the public that since he made his investigation a few months ago the general position has vastly improved?

I am glad to say that the coal distributive trade are in agreement with that view.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether, as a redress for dissatisfaction about the quality of the coal the customer has the right to sue the Coal Board, as he had in the old days to sue the colliery?

I should like notice of that question, but the right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well what the procedure is, and in the opinion of the merchants it is the most suitable.

In view of the most unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall endeavour to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the reasons for the recent decision to distribute by road transport practically the whole of the coal output of opencast workings; the additional cost involved by such road transport distribution upon the estimated output of 11,000,000 tons of coal from opencast sites in the current year; and whether the additional cost is provided for in the re-classification plan of the National Coal Board.

No such decision has been made. In the Midlands, the National Coal Board have found it desirable to switch a small part of the opencast output from rail to road, but I have no reason to think that this will make any appreciable difference to the overall cost of opencast coal.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will give figures for 1950 such as will show the distances which opencast coal had to be carried from the workings to the consumer and the proportions of the categories given in each case.

I regret that the figures for which the hon. Member has asked are not available, and I am afraid that they could not be compiled without a disproportionate amount of work.

Are we to understand from that answer that the figures within the Minister's office cannot indicate the distances which opencast coal was being carried to consumers during last year?

I do not want to give the hon. Member a misleading answer. To get the information he requires would mean analysing and then summarising all the despatches of coal from opencast sites last year. As this work is highly decentralised it would mean a lot of additional labour for—I think—a not very useful purpose.

Were such calculations not done before the general decision was taken to put the whole of opencast coal haulage on the road?

If the hon. Member had listened to my last answer he would know that no such decision has been made.

If the Minister is unable to provide these figures can he tell the House how he can produce a profit and loss account for opencast mining?

Because we add up the profits and losses on the different sites.

In view of the Minister's answer, how is he able to establish a price for opencast coal if he is not able to calculate the cost of delivery?

I can calculate the cost of delivery, but what I cannot calculate without a great deal of work is the average length of haul of coal transported by road.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what proportion of the coal produced from opencast working in 1950 was delivered by road.

About 30 per cent.

What is the effect of all this extra load on the already chaotic road transport since nationalisation?

I do not understand what the hon. and gallant Member means.

In view of the fact that the figure of 30 per cent. is presumably an addition to the load which nationalised road transport has to carry, what is the effect on that already chaotic road transport?

About 3½ million tons of coal are carried by road. Opencast coal has always been carried by road since opencast working began in 1941.

By how much is that 30 per cent. to go up this year as a result of the announcements that have appeared in the Press about further deliveries by road from opencast sites?

In the West Midlands, of which I was speaking just now, the addition will be about 10,000 tons per week.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what was the total quantity of South Wales smokeless coals exported during the year 1950, or other recent period of 12 months as may be convenient; and what percentage such exports formed of the total production during such period.

A total of 1.2 million tons of anthracite and graded Welsh dry steam coal were exported in 1950. This was about 20 per cent. of the total output.

Is the Minister aware that the growing home demand for such fuel is in excess of the supply and that the demand is coming from persons using appliances especially designed for the consumption of this type of fuel? What is he doing to increase supplies or, alternatively, to discourage the Coal Utilization Council from encouraging people to go in for these appliances?

The new appliances will burn a variety of fuels the supply of which the Coal Board is endeavouring to increase. They will also burn low-grade coal, and do so very efficiently with great satisfaction to the consumer.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what recent figures he has to show how much extra coal has been mined as a result of the voluntary shift working of miners on Saturdays; how many pits worked this extra shift; and how many extra hours were involved.

During the first 22 weeks of this year, 6.3 million tons of coal have been produced by Saturday shifts. The average number of mines which worked was 707. The Saturday shift is about an hour shorter than the normal week-day shift.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that Leicestershire has played a very important part in the production of this extra coal? Will he express his recognition of this magnificent national effort on the part of the miners?

Yes, Sir, I have done it many times. It was a magnificent effort. I think that, worked out in man hours, it would probably be something well over 20 million extra man hours this year.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he is taking to provide storage accommodation, where possible, for coke, in readiness for the winter, in districts where it has to be fetched from gas works in neighbouring towns.

I have no reason to think that the merchants are without the stocking space which they require; but if the hon. Member has any special case in mind, I will cause inquiries to be made.

Would the right hon. Gentleman ask local authorities and not merchants especially to provide storage accommodation for coke where the gas works is some distance away, to avoid the sorry spectacle we had last year in my constituency and elsewhere of old women of 80 years of age trudging a mile and a half each way to fetch their fuel?

I have not heard that the difficulty was due to lack of stocking space. If there was any such shortage I am sure that the merchants would have informed me, when I would have helped them immediately.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how far he anticipates that electricity cuts can be progressively eliminated from 1952.

I hope that the rapid increase in generating plant, and other measures to deal with the problem of peak hour demand, will bring about a progressive improvement in the next few years.

Meantime, has the Minister given any thought to paying compensation to the various firms who have lost money, since nationalisation, because of cuts?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what representations have been received from the various committees serving the Northern Region on electricity matters regarding the power cuts.

I have regular meetings with the chairmen of the area electricity consumers' consultative councils, and in January I had a special conference with the chairmen and deputy-chairmen of the councils, the chairmen and deputy-chairmen of the area boards, the members of the British Electricity Authority, and their divisional controllers. At all these meetings, representations were made to me about power cuts, and measures for dealing with them were discussed.

The North-Eastern Area Consultative Council make representations to their area board, who are responsible for deciding on the incidence of the cuts that are required, and on the measures to mitigate the loss they cause.

Would the right hon. Gentleman publish the results of that inquiry and what decisions were taken, other than the announcement by the right hon. Gentleman that all these power cuts are due to full employment, because presumably that would not be registered at this business meeting?

The last statement just made by the hon. Lady is true, but many of the other things which were decided at that meeting have been published and action was taken in many ways.

The right hon. Gentleman misunderstood my question—quite naturally.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power on what date the new power stations to serve the North-East coast are scheduled to come into operation.

The present maximum output capacity of the power stations in the North-Eastern Division is 600 megawatts. The British Electricity Authority plan to increase this by 195 megawatts before the end of 1952, mainly by additions to the North Tees station, In 1953 a further addition of 60 megawatts is planned, and by the end of 1954 the two new stations at Stella on Tyne should have 180 megawatts in operation. Thus the capacity of the Division should be increased by 62 per cent. during the next three and a half years. The two Stella stations will have a further 360 megawatts installed, but it is not yet possible to say how soon.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that last week the power cuts put the North Shields fish quay into chaos with a resulting loss of good food and finance? Is he also aware that one of his officials said last week that the difficulties had been overcome, and can he say why we have to wait so long for these new power stations to come into operation?

Because it takes considerable time to complete a power station. I think this expansion of 62 per cent., which I have described, over the next three-and-a-half years is remarkably rapid—I think the most rapid of any region in the country.

The right hon. Gentleman is always referring to megawatts. Can he tell us the difference between megawatts and kilowatts?

A megawatt is a thousand kilowatts.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that whatever the difficulties caused to the North-East by the delays in the building of these power stations, most people, I suppose, living in the North-East would prefer to have more work to do than there is power supplied than the position of the old days when nobody needed the power at all?

I think that is one of the major causes of the difficulty in the North-East. Before the war there was such a large amount of unemployment that the demand was very much less.

But there was no chaos on the fish quay.

asked the Minister of Food for how long the sale of cream will be permitted.

asked the Minister of Food on what date approximately he expects to put milk back on the ration this summer.

I would refer the hon. and gallant Members to the reply my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. and gallant Member for Wembley, North (Wing Commander Bullus), on Monday, 4th June.

Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that the sale of cream has not prejudiced either the manufacture of cheese or milk powder for infants and that it has not increased the possibility of milk rationing later because of the depleted milk supply?

We endeavour to hold a balance in these matters, and it is because we are holding such a balance that we now regrettably have to discontinue the manufacture of cream.

As the sale of cream has not been allowed for some years, can the Minister say on what the present price is based?

The cost of production.

What unforeseen circumstances induced this decision?

The decision was taken in an endeavour to meet the needs or requirements of the people who wanted to consume cream and the farming community who wanted to produce cream.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the instructions about the sale of cream did not reach some caterers until the announcement of the cancellation of the concession? Does he appreciate that these sudden changes of policy destroy confidence in his administration?

No, I am not so aware, and it is not my responsibility.

asked the Minister of Food what views on the differential rationing of farm workers have been expressed by the Trades Union Congress Committee which advise him on such questions.

Responsibility for decisions in such matters rests entirely with my right hon. Friend. We do, however, seek the advice of the Trades Union Congress, who have supported the allowances we have given to farm workers to offset the lack of canteens. Trades Union Congress have advised, however, against the principle of trying to discriminate between the needs of different kinds of workers for the purpose of differential rationing.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say what the urban gentlemen of the T.U.C. Committee really know about the conditions of farm workers? Does he realise that the chaps on my farm are working from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.—sometimes a good deal longer—that the same thing happens on other farms and that this is one-third longer than the miners work, but without pithead meals or 12–hour canteens? To add insult to injury—

Is this a question, or is the hon. and gallant Gentleman giving information about the employees on his farm?

asked the Minister of Food if, because of the continued small-ness of the meat ration, he will consider taking steps to stop the exports of canned meats.

I would refer my hon. Friend to my right hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member for Orpington (Sir W. Smithers) on 8th May.

May I inform my hon. Friend that I have read what has been said on previous occasions, and ask him whether he is aware that a firm in Manchester are exporting tins of braised beef, one of which I hold in my hand, for sale in Canada for 29 cents, which is the equivalent of 2s. 7½d.? Will he see that we get a supply of this commodity on the home market, because housewives would welcome it?

As my right hon. Friend and I have explained repeatedly, these exports represent a negligible quantity compared with the meat on the ration. I am not sure that I followed my hon. Friend's argument, but I hope that I am right in assuming that he is not advocating the removal of price control on the sale of manufactured meat products in this country.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, even if we accept his statement that the quantities are negligible, the impression caused in the places where this meat is sold is deplorable? People find it hard to believe the truth of the situation, which is that we are short of meat in this country.

I am not responsible for that impression, if that impression be there.

Can my hon. Friend say whether any counter-balancing advantages are obtained from this export—even if it is of an insignificant quantity?

Yes. There are considerable counter-balancing advantages. The exports which have been referred to are exports to Canada.

Will my hon. Friend state the advantages?

asked the Minister of Food when he proposes to allow the sale of eggs off the ration.

On the basis of the supplies coming forward in the early weeks of the year, it was hoped that supplies in the spring would have been sufficient for my right hon. Friend to allow the free sale of eggs as he was able to do last year. The Ministry made preparations for free sales, and, to assist the trade and the public, my right hon. Friend, in reply to Questions, stated that it was again our intention to free eggs from the ration. But our hopes and intentions have not been realised. Unfortunately, both here and in our overseas supplying countries, we have had the worst season for weather for over 20 years. Consequently, we have not had much in the way of a spring flush, and, very reluctantly, we have had to postpone the operation of our decision to allow retailers to sell to unregistered customers, As things now look, the chilly and damp weather having persisted so long, it does not seem possible that we can completely free sales this season.

But supplies will tend to fluctuate, and in some areas will probably prove more than adequate for the prescribed allocations. Indeed, in the past two weeks, the supply generally has been greater than last year. This, however, is too late, and is not likely to be of a sufficiently sustained period to permit general off-ration sales. But I would point out that there is nothing in the existing order to prevent grocers letting their registered customers have any additional supplies which they have to spare, and I know that this happens in a large number of cases.

In view both of the failure to reach last year's position and of the miscalculation by the Ministry which is disclosed in that answer, will the Government reconsider the decision announced a few weeks' ago, by the Minister of Agriculture, not to seek to increase egg supplies in this country?

I was asked what we proposed to do to allow the sale of eggs off the ration. I have explained why, in present circumstances, we are not in a position to allow the sale of eggs off the ration.

Was the strike of the hens official or unofficial?

asked the Minister of Food how many cases of home eggs he bought in the spring which were oiled, packed and stored; what was the cost of this operation; and what was the loss on the value of the eggs by converting them from fresh into preserved eggs.

A total of 366,752 cases of home-produced eggs were oil-processed and cold stored for my Department this spring. The approximate average cost of oiling the eggs, packing them and placing them in cold store was 3s. 3¾d. per case. The Department's selling price for oiled and stored eggs is 15s. per case lower than the selling price ruling at the time for fresh eggs of equal quality and size.

What, therefore, has been the loss on this transaction? Would I be exaggerating if I put the loss on the whole transaction at over £500,000?

The hon. and gallant Gentleman would be under-estimating if he put it at £250,000.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us what is the advantage of spending 3s. 3d. on each case in order to lower the value by 15s.?

These oil processed eggs sell at lower prices than fresh eggs. The decision to oil dip them was taken at a time when, from all the expert advice given to us, it appeared that we would be able to carry over these eggs until the autumn, but, as I have previously explained, we have had the worst weather for 20 years.

Is not this a most astonishing state of affairs? If the hon. Gentleman says that my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Angus, South (Captain Duncan) was under-estimating when he quoted a certain figure, will he tell us, so that the public may know, what is the actual one, because it may be positively alarming?

The figure is contained in the answer which I have given.

Bearing in mind that oil dipped eggs deteriorate very rapidly in warm weather, will the hon. Gentleman tell us why he decided to release these eggs in warm weather, instead of in the winter-time, when it is cooler?

We released these eggs, as my right hon. Friend explained, because of the need for more eggs at this time, because of the shortage of meat, but we have no evidence of any deterioration of the eggs that have been released.

asked the Minister of Food how many of the eggs stored by his Department in the spring have been released to the public; and what the loss is in prematurely releasing them.

The intention is to release to the public all the cases of home-produced eggs which were oil processed in the spring, and the release is proceeding. It is not possible yet to determine the financial results of their early release, because the prices at which the eggs would have been sold next autumn and winter have not been fixed.

Is this not another example of stupid and extravagant State trading, and would it not be very much better to leave these things to people in the trade who understand them?

I can contradict that at once. These officials of the Egg Division are highly respected in the trade, and have considerable experience.

As the eggs were released to make up the expected shortage next winter, how does the Minister expect to make up the deficiency that will arise from using them now?

We are doing all we can to get more eggs for the autumn, but it is a fact that we shall be so many eggs shorter than we otherwise would have been but for the fact that there has been no flush. What we have done is to take a decision to make these eggs available to the people when we believe they would most require them.

Would not the business of the House be facilitated if the hon. Gentleman would denationalise the egg trade now?

asked the Minister of Food what representations he has received from Australia and New Zealand on the admission of Argentine apples under the new trade agreement; and what action he proposes to take to prevent this trade being damaged.

No such representations have been received. Judging from the keen demand for dessert apples, these supplies have been very welcome to the housewife, and I cannot imagine that the trade has damaged anybody.

Will not the Minister wait a little while until he realises, and until the Australian and New Zealand apple and pear growers realise, that the market will be flooded with a lot of Argentine apples just before the Australian and New Zealand fruit comes into the market? Will he say why he has done this to the Dominions, which have never held us to ransom?

I think I can assure the House that there is no possibility of that happening.

Is not this a typical case of foreign fruit being allowed into this country while British fruit rots?

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary's reply mean that the Government are trying to extricate themselves from the muddle they made over meat at the expense of Dominion producers, who are producing other goods?

Present prices indicate that there is a very good market for apples in this country.

asked the Minister of Food if he will now remove the restriction on bakers making a delivery charge.

asked the Minister of Food if his investigation into the retail deliveries of bread are now complete; and what action he proposes to take to ensure maintenance of deliveries in rural areas.

My right hon. Friend has completed his inquiries and has decided to remove the general ban on delivery charges. Details will be announced shortly.

asked the Minister of Food whether, for the present flat rate bread subsidy, he will consider substituting a graduated subsidy based on output, that is, the higher the output, the less the subsidy.

We have already considered this proposal, and have decided that the payment of a graduated subsidy based on output would not be equitable to all sections of the trade. A baker's profits depend on the nature of his business and the size of the area which he serves. There is no necessary relationship between profits and volume of output.

Is the Minister aware that the big plant bakers get far more in the way of subsidies than they actually need, whereas the small bakers who use, perhaps, only one or two sacks of flour a day are going out of business because they cannot get enough?

The hon. Gentleman's proposal is not unattractive, but, having made a careful costings inquiry, it does not seem that the costings facts would support his contention.

Can my hon. Friend say whether this is a Tory method of reducing the cost of living?

asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the increase in the price of the basic ingredients used by the bakery trade, he will abolish price control on flour confectionery.

asked the Minister of Food if he will now reconsider the ceiling prices of flour confectionery, in view of the increases in the cost of ingredients.

My right hon. Friend has reviewed the present maximum prices in the light of the increased costs of production and has decided to allow certain increases. Details will be announced shortly.

Would the Minister consider the tastes of schoolboys in deciding how these increases should be allotted?

asked the Minister of Food if he has now had an opportunity to consider the circumstances of the delay in the publication of Statutory Instruments, 1951, Nos. 606 and 607; and whether he will make a statement.

As my right hon. Friend promised, he has made very thorough inquiries into this question. As he has already told the hon. Member, he is satisfied that in this particular case the interval of four days between laying and publication was not unreasonable.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his right hon. Friend says in a letter to me that the interval was longer than usual, and can I have the Parliamentary Secretary's assurance that it is the policy of his Department to publish after a shorter interval of time than was the fact in this case?

Yes, Sir, it is our endeavour to make this interval as short as possible, but we have to exercise discretion in the various cases regarding the pressure we bring to bear on His Majesty's Stationery Office.