asked the Minister of Food with regard to the recent agreement to take 90 per cent. of the exportable surplus of pigs from Eire, how many pigs he expects to receive in the next two years, respectively.

It is not yet possible to make an estimate. This agreement is designed to give the producers in Eire the sort of guarantee they require to develop their production. It will have no immediate result, but in due course it should provide a useful addition to our supplies. I think we cannot measure the prospects with any precision until some time next year.

In view of the right hon. Gentleman's statement that this arrangement is to give producers in Eire a guarantee of their future prospects of trade, would he consider giving the same guarantee to home producers in the matter of feedingstuffs, which they cannot get?

That is another question, but, in fact, those guarantees have been given.

How does the Minister define "exportable surplus"? Surplus after what? After other countries have been considered?

If the hon. Gentleman would read the agreement he would find that that has been defined.

asked the Minister of Food whether he is satisfied that the bacon factories at Ipswich and Elmswell, Suffolk, are being used to their fullest capacity the whole year round; and what recent steps he has taken to encourage farmers in Norfolk and Suffolk to produce the most suitable type of bacon pig to supply these factories.

No. Sir. No bacon factories in this country are working to full capacity all the year round. There are not yet enough pigs available. We pay a quality premium for pigs of the most suitable type and, in a few months' time, we shall begin to introduce a system of grading for bacon pigs.

Is it not somewhat undesirable to send pigs to bacon factories in other parts of the country when those in the area are not working to full capacity? Does not that result in the loss of weight and worse bacon for the people?

This is one of our most urgent difficulties, but we have to weigh the loss of weight against other difficulties arising out of our inability to supply bacon in other parts of the country. On balance, I think that the scheme works very well. The improvement mentioned in the last part of my answer will, I think, lead to a general increase in the overall supply of bacon.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he is introducing this grading system, and if there is to be any further announcement about it?

It will be introduced in due course; just when, I cannot say.

Would it not be better to transport the bacon after it has been cured rather than send the live pigs long distances to the consuming areas?

It would be if it were as easy as all that. There are complicated problems of labour and matters of that kind which we have to work out and resolve, and, on balance, this is the best way of doing it now.

Muddle, muddle.

asked the Minister of Food what action he proposes to take with regard to the representations made concerning the loss of weight of fat pigs produced in Norfolk due to their long journey to the slaughterhouses.

There is an allowance on all pigs transported more than 50 miles to cover what the trade calls "shrinkage." The scale of allowances has been agreed in consultation with the Agricultural Departments and the National Farmers' Unions.

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that this is not altogether satisfactory owing to the fact that some of the pigs are not killed for a long time after they leave the farms? Cannot he get over that difficulty?

As I have already said, I am aware of the difficulties. At the moment, it is not possible for us to get over that difficulty in quite the way that is suggested. We are anxious to get over it, and any co-operation that we can have we shall be glad to have.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider getting rid of these complaints by re-constituting the pigs marketing board?

asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware that bottles of imported fruit are being sold at prices which, in some cases, are more than double the controlled price of imported canned fruit of similar weight and quality; and if he will therefore control the price of imported bottled fruit.

I know that this privately imported bottled fruit is expensive. The quantities coming in are, however, relatively small, and I do not think that price control would be justified. It would only stop the trade altogether and take these extras off the market. I see no point in using the instruments of price control to reduce the total supplies of food coming into this country. We should only be justified in controlling this admittedly expensive luxury import if scarce currencies were involved or if there was a risk that imports of canned fruit of the same kihds would be prejudiced.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a 20 oz. bottle of imported fruit salad is retailing at 5s. 9d., compared with Is. 6d. for a 20 oz. tin of imported fruit salad? If the price control which he has successfully operated in the case of canned goods is not preventing their import would it not be a good thing to consider, at any rate, price control of these excessively priced bottled fruits?

I am fully aware of all those facts. I have gone into the matter with great care. The only result of interference by price control would be to stop the goods coming in altogether, and I see no advantage in that.

Will my right hon. Friend explain why price control has not stopped imports of canned goods?

asked the Minister of Food on what basis it was decided to pay £10 a ton more for supplies of sugar from foreign sources than the prices paid to our own colonies, including Jamaica.

We have agreed to purchase the whole of the exportable surplus of sugar from Commonwealth countries up to the end of next year. This year's price was agreed, as giving a reasonable return to producers, with Commonwealth representatives last December. Commonwealth supplies, however, are not sufficient to cover all our commitments and we therefore have to buy foreign sugar at the open market price, which at present is above the Commonwealth price. But our arrangements with Commonwealth producers are based on longterm guarantees, which give them security against falls in price, other than such as could be justified by a fall in production costs.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that recent information indicates that the disparity between the prices is as much as from £22 to £25 a ton? Can he justify the policy of cutting the price paid for Commonwealth grown sugar and then making contributions from the Colonial Development and Welfare Fund and, at the same time, paying high prices to Cuba?

I am rather surprised that that question should come from this side of the House. [HON. MEMBERS: "The right hon. Gentleman is learning."] The whole point of these guarantees is to give long-term security to the producers; but they cannot have it both ways: they cannot have the world price when the world price is high and have a guaranteed price when the world price is down. The whole point is to give a long-term security on which they can base their long-term programmes of production.

Will my right hon. Friend agree that the intention is to make the Colonies as far as possible self-supporting?

asked the Minister of Food if he will arrange to distribute lard fairly and proportionately between all grocery shops in areas when lard is available.

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Food how far the five shiploads of beef which have arrived in this country under the new agreement with the Argentine is store stale and dirty: if it was known to his negotiators at the time of making the agreement that some 60,000 tons was lying in the stores of the Argentine plants and was likely to be in bad condition; why it was agreed to pay top prices for inferior meat; and what representations have been made to the Argentine Government to recover part of the cost.

We knew that the Argentine packers had some meat in store at the time the latest agreement was made; but there was no reason to suppose that the meat was unsatisfactory. Shipments received so far, contrary to recent misleading statements, have been generally satisfactory. The quantity found to be slightly out of condition has been very small indeed. If allowances can justifiably be claimed, claims will be made in accordance with normal commercial practice.

Is not this a typical example of how absurd it is for the Government to go on trying to buy meat for this country? How much better it would be for all concerned, including the Ministry of Food, if the right hon. Gentleman allowed the trade to do the job.

That does not arise out of this Question.

If I may answer the hon. Gentleman, his Question assumes that all meat coming to this country is always unsatisfactory, which is a very extraordinary assumption. As an example of condition, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that out of 6,000 beef quarters pitched at Smithfield during the week ending 9th June only two were found to be unsatisfactory.

Has the Argentine Mixed Negotiating Commission authority to adjust the price if the meat has deteriorated appreciably owing to store staleness?

That is a wider question. I should like to have notice of it to give a considered answer.

Has all this meat gone into circulation?

Some has gone into circulation, some into stock.

asked the Minister of Food if he is now in a position to make a statement on the Government's long-term policy for home-produced meat.

No, Sir. Decisions on policy cannot be taken until consultations with interested organisations have been completed.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is at least three years from the time the calf is born before we get beef from it; is he not aware that the longer this decision is delayed the longer shall we have to remain on the present very meagre ration?

I cannot follow the hon. Member into those biological facts. This is a very complicated problem and we are anxious that whatever is done should be done on sound lines. We are in close contact with every section of the industry and we have now received the views of, I think, almost every section. We feel that it would be desirable to have a second meeting with most of them and in due course we shall arrive at our conclusion, but I would deprecate an early decision.

In arriving at a long-term policy, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the special considerations that appertain to dual-purpose breeds of cattle, such as the South Devon, and see that any regulations which are made do not discourage the development of such breeds in the areas where they are customary?

Although the right hon. Gentleman says this is a very complicated matter in the long term, is it not rather extraordinary that since 1945 we have had no long-term policy of home beef production? How long must we wait?

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the decision made last summer to allow the import of canned meats under licence is of little value in practice because of the substantial increase in the world price of meat since the maximum prices for imported canned meats were laid down in Statutory Rules and Orders, 1949, No. 782; what representations he has received from importers; and what reply he has made.

The facts do not support the hon. Member's suggestion. The average monthly arrivals of privately imported canned meats during the first quarter of 1951 were noticeably higher—about 25 per cent.—than in the last quarter of 1950. Importers have, however, made representations to me for increased prices for certain lines of canned meat, and I am considering them.

It was to the "certain lines" that my Question was directed. Does the Minister agree that these "certain lines" are good food, which would be welcomed by the people of this country, but that they cannot be imported and sold within the price limits which were fixed by the Ministry in 1949?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would await the outcome of the consideration of these special lines.

What is the maximum price of "certain lines" in a can?

When will the Minister realise that the increase of food prices all over the world is entirely due to bulk purchasing, and the validity of the principle that if we restrict consumption we restrict output?

That question goes far wider than the Question.

asked the Minister of Food what steps he took to satisfy himself that the crab meat ordered from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and now on sale in this country was fit for human consumption; what quantities have been purchased or contracted for, and if he will make a statement on the position generally.

asked the Minister of Food whether he has yet received a report on the Russian crab meat which was allegedly responsible for four cases of food poisoning in Coventry; and what action he proposes to take.

asked the Minister of Food whether he has considered the statement of the Medical Officer of Health for Coventry, a copy of which has been sent to him, that a number of cases of illness were due to the consumption of Russian crab meat; and what action he proposes to take.

I have seen Press reports about cases of food poisoning alleged to have been caused by the consumption of Russian crab meat. The quantity covered by the last contract for this commodity was about 800 tons, all of which has been released. On arrival in this country the goods were examined in the usual way and found to be in sound and perfect condition. No complaints have been received in my Department about this or previous shipments, of which there have been several. Indeed, this tinned crab is most popular and is eagerly bought up when available.

Arising out of the present incident, the Public Health Laboratory Service examined the remainder of the food in the can that was thought to have been the cause of these cases of illness, but as this examination did not take place until some time after the can had been opened, the results were inconclusive. An examination of 20 unopened cans of the same batch showed, however, that they were all perfectly sound. In the light of this report I feel that hon. Members and the public can be reassured about the quality of this product, and the efficiency of the routine tests which are made.

The Minister used the word "alleged." Was it not the Medical Office of Health of Coventry who condemned those tins? Would the right hon. Gentleman say what is the quantity of crab meat of that consignment which has been ordered and brought into the country?

I see that the Medical Officer of Health of Coventry said only this morning, as reported in the Daily Mail:

"People can go ahead and eat the meat. Risk of food poisoning is small."

If he himself arrived at that conclusion, who am I to interfere with what he said?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the hon. Member for Hornsey (Mr. Gammans) is ill-informed on the subject, and that the Medical Officer of Health for Coventry has stated that the remaining quantities of crab meat in Coventry can be released for human consumption? Is it not also the fact that the incidence of food poisoning from Russian imported food is no higher than from similar foods imported from more friendly sources?

I think we should all deprecate the intrusion of prejudice into a discussion of this matter. There is a risk of poisoning from all prepared foods, particularly tinned foods, and merely because this particular food comes from Russia should not lead us into exaggerated views of the consequences. This is a most palatable commodity; we are very glad to have it; it is good crab, well packed, and the trade will take every ounce of it that we can get into this country.

In view of this incident, is the right hon. Gentleman arranging for a special and additional check to be made on any future consignment that his Department may decide to import?

We shall carry out all the routine checks that are made from time to time.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make it perfectly plain to the Russians that in future we shall take no more of their very doubtful crab until they are prepared to take an equal quantity of our doubtless herring?

asked the Minister of Food what quantity of apples was envisaged under the item of fresh and industrialised fruits in Schedule No. 1 of the Anglo-Argentine Agreement of 27th June, 1949; and, in view of the danger of imports of these apples in the early months of the year forestalling imports from Australia and New Zealand, whether the Governments of the two Dominions were consulted before this item was included.

This item covers all fruits, and there is no specific figure for apples. Australia and New Zealand were not consulted about it, but I do not think that there is any real risk of imports of apples from these countries being affected. This year, in fact, because of the lateness of the Southern Dominion crop and the New Zealand water-front strike, Argentine apples have been welcome, and have been in very good demand.

asked the Minister of Food what steps have been taken to make it known to his own Department as well as to the general public at which food office overseas visitors must attend in order to obtain ration cards.

Overseas visitors can obtain ration cards from any local food office, either by post or in person, if they present their passports or travel permits. This information is given in a leaflet handed to them when they arrive in this country. But if the hon. Member has in mind any particular difficulty, and will let me have details, I will gladly look into it. We are anxious to do all we can to make arrangements easy for our visitors, but not all the plans submitted to me are found practicable on examination.

Is the Minister aware that an Australian visitor recently went to the Grosvenor Gardens Food Office to obtain a ration card and was sent from there to the Piccadilly Food Office, where he was then told to go back to Grosvenor Gardens? Does he not think that that is a very unsatisfactory way to treat overseas visitors?

That is precisely the kind of case of which I should like detailed evidence, which I will certainly look into.

asked the Minister of Food if he will arrange to issue ration cards to overseas visitors at their ports of disembarkation or at airports instead of making them attend at a food office.

As this proposal would probably cause delay at the ports, I do not think it would be an improvement on our present arrangements which are well-established and generally speaking quite convenient to all concerned.

Is it not a fact that most Empire and foreign countries who have rationing adopt a system of issuing cards on arrival; and could not the same system be adopted over here?

On the evidence available to me it looks as though our system is, on the whole, quite acceptable and efficient, although there are little irritations here and there. We are not tied to it. and if we can improve it by all means let us do so. I should be glad to consult with the hon. Gentleman about any means of improvement.

asked the Minister of Food what further steps he is taking to augment the supplies of eggs this year to meet the greater increased demand occasioned by the continued shortage of meat.

I would refer the hon. Member to the second part of the reply given to the hon. Member for Cornwall. North (Sir H. Roper) on 11th June.

Is not the egg supply to some 50 million people throughout the country all-important; is it not a fact that the allocation for 1951 is very much less than it was in 1950; and why is it that the Government go on discouraging the home egg producer? There is no excuse. It is thoroughly unsatisfactory.

We are not discouraging the home producer. We are about to bring up the price of home-produced eggs to 6s. a dozen. What we are trying to aim at is to get a balance of supply over the whole year, with the co-operation of the farming interests, who are very anxious indeed to work with us. The price now is going up, and we hope to supply many more home-produced eggs in winter than has ever before been the case.

It is getting worse and worse.

Is it not a fact that the present short-fall in production during the peak period as compared with last year is a direct result of the thoroughly uneconomic price of 4s. 3½d. a dozen. whereas the lowest economic price is considered to be 4s. 9d. a dozen?

That is certainly not the case.

Ask the farmers.

asked the Minister of Food why the period between 1st February and 2nd May, 1951, was chosen for the oil sealing and cold storing of eggs.

Because eggs produced in the spring are of the best quality and therefore most suitable for storage and because they are more plentiful then than at any other time of the year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there was no surplus of eggs during this period this year, and could he not have made proper arrangements so that the eggs reached the market instead of being put into store?

That is one of the difficulties of organising in advance for the imponderable factors, which are conditioned by the climate and all sorts of other uncontrollable things. In the case of making arrangements for oil dipping, it is a long and complicated process which we had to set in motion well in advance of the flush period on certain assumptions. These assumptions have not been realised, and, therefore, we were quite right to go ahead at that time.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if the backyard poultry keeper is given adequate food he will take care of the egg problem for himself?

asked the Minister of Food when he hopes to be able to announce an increase in the tea ration.

There is no immediate prospect of an increase, as I have said repeatedly; but as soon as tea supplies improve I shall make an announcement.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what effort he is making to get a bigger increase in the supply of tea for this country so that the ration may be increased?

Every possible effort.

Can the right hon. Gentleman hold out any hope of an increased tea ration for old-aged pensioners?

Not beyond what we have already done.

asked the Minister of Food what action he proposes to take to ensure that certain villages and schools in Norfolk which have recently been short of milk will be adequately supplied.

The delivery of milk to the two villages which my hon. Friend no doubt has in mind has already been resumed. My officers are now helping the local education authority to secure an early resumption of deliveries to a number of small isolated schools in the area whose former distributor has recently stopped supplies. Deliveries are starting again today to 12 of these schools. I will inform my hon. Friend when arrangements for delivery to the remaining eight schools have been completed.

Will the officers of the Department stay there until this problem has been solved?

We are doing our best to put it right. I think that the evidence which I have given should reassure my hon. Friend that I am not without sympathy towards his request.

Is the Minister aware that this complaint is not confined to Norfolk but is general throughout the country, and is because the margin allowed to dealers is not sufficient to enable them to deliver to isolated consumers?

I do not agree that it is general. There are places where it is a problem, and if I am given evidence of these local problems I shall be glad to look into it.

asked the Minister of Food what is to be his policy this year on the importation of strawberry pulp.

I do not contemplate any change in the present arrangements, under which this trade is in private hands.

Has the right hon. Gentleman made any move to make the importation of this pulp a little later in view of the fact that the strawberry season this year is several weeks later than usual?

We are ready to see what private enterprise can do in this matter.

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that beer has recently increased in price although there has been no increase in taxation on beer; and whether, since brewers are already making large profits, he will introduce legislation to control the price of beer.

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that a co-operative brewery on the North-East coast, without raising prices, has given a rebate of £196,000 to its customers and declared a profit of £200,000 on the last six months' period; and if he will introduce legislation to compel brewers either to increase the strength of beer or lower the price.

I understand that many brewers have increased the retail price of beer as a result of increases in costs. But I do not think that it would help to impose control. I know that a Co-operative brewery in the North-East is trading successfully, but the conditions of its trade differ in some respects from those of other breweries.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that last year the average dividend of ordinary shares of the leading brewers in the country was 19½ per cent., among them being Bass 25 per cent., Guinness 28 per cent., Younger's 30 per cent., and Strong's 85 per cent.? Is he also aware that, despite these profits, the bulk of the new increase is going not to the licensed victuallers but to the brewers; and does he not think that the Government ought to stand up to the brewers on this question?

Dividends are, of course, a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer and are not my responsibility. All I would say in general answer to those submissions is that, if the Co-operative breweries are such a good idea, why not go ahead and develop them and beat the brewers at their own game?

Will my right hon. Friend consult with the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a view to controlling the actions of private brewers who waited until after the Budget statement before they raised their prices?

I am in constant consultation with my right hon. Friend.

Is it not a fact that a reduction of a penny a pint on beer would completely wipe out the profits of the brewers?

What does my right hon. Friend mean when he says that he has no responsibility? Is it not through the permission of his Department that the brewers are provided with the raw materials out of which these profits can be made?

My hon. Friend must be slightly intoxicated. I did not say that I had no responsibility. I have a responsibility for supplies to the brewery trade. What I said was that I have no responsibility for the taxation of dividends. That is the responsibility of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that, apart from London Transport and dock police, the railway police are the only police force in the United Kingdom which are not controlled either by a democratically-elected local authority or by a Minister answerable to Parliament; and whether he will introduce legislation to secure that the railway police will in future be controlled in one or the other of those ways.

No, Sir. Railway police are not the only police force of this kind. There are similar police forces for docks and harbours. In the special circumstances in which they are employed these police forces serve a necessary and useful purpose, and have been in existence for over 100 years. The control of police forces generally by a Minister or by local authorities is of a strictly limited character, and, in fact, the police are always ultimately responsible to the courts for the enforcement of the law, which is clearly proper. In the circumstances, therefore, I have no reason to think that legislation on the lines suggested is necessary.

Is the Minister aware that the railway police are the second largest force in the country and have powers and responsibilities as great as the ordinary police? Does he not agree that both the public and the members of the railway police are anxious to see their status regularised by democratic control?

I agree that they are the largest police force of this character in the country, but I am not aware that the public are uneasy about the form of control. This has existed for a long time and there has been very little difficulty. I do not see any necessity for any change at present, but the matter is always open to review if public opinion were to change.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at this matter from a point of view which I suggest is quite reasonable? If a Minister could answer for matters of importance, not of day to day administration, in the same way as the Home Secretary answers for matters of importance concerning local authority police forces to which, of course, he makes a certain grant, I am sure that that would calm some of the apprehensions that have been expressed.

The fact that I have answered this Question today indicates that I appreciate that circumstances may arise when it is necessary to make a statement. I will look at the matter which the right hon. and learned Gentleman has put to me, and I observe particularly that he did not wish to bring in day to day matters of management.

Is it not a fact that these officers attend the same schools and colleges, pass the same Civil Service examinations as officers of other forces and police forces, and are awarded the Police Medal, but, because they are not under the Home Office or any other Ministry, are still, after two years, being paid less than the members of other police forces in the country as they do not enjoy the benefits of the Oaksey award?

That appears to me to raise issues other than that which is involved in this Question.

Has the Home Secretary any responsibility whatever for local authority police?

That is a question that my hon. and learned Friend should put to the Home Secretary.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the only reason why this Question was on the Order Paper today was because the Prime Minister was willing to answer it, and I could not get a Question down to the right hon. Gentleman?

The hon. Gentleman has succeeded, and I do not know what his difficulty is now.

As these policemen are mainly responsible for the operations of railway employees, is the Minister aware that no complaints about them by railway employees have been received in the last three years?

I am aware of that, and also that there have been no complaints from the general public.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that no costs are awarded to the successful claimant after an award has been made in accordance with the Second Schedule of the Transferred Undertakings (Compensation to Employees) Regulations, 1950; and whether he will take the necessary steps to ensure that provision is made for the costs of the award to be granted to the successful claimant at the discretion of the Tribunal.

I am aware that no costs are awarded to either side in employees' compensation appeals decided by boards of referees. I have no power under the Transport Act to ensure that provision is made for the award of costs in these cases.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, bearing in mind that these appeals consist mainly in the fixing of monetary awards, the effect of these awards, if the appeal is successful, can be to a great extent nullified by the paying of the costs of the proceedings? In the interests of justice will he not make some such provision as I have suggested?

The procedure is kept as simple as possible. The hon. Gentleman ought to appreciate that if this power were given it might cut both ways and be very onerous on claimants who have costs awarded against them. There are more cases dismissed than proved.

asked the Minister of Transport whether full compensation has yet been paid to the owners of road haulier businesses which have been taken over by the Road Services Commission: or to what extent payment is in arrears.

The British Transport Commission inform me that payment of compensation to the former owners of road haulage businesses acquired by them is not in arrear. In accordance with the provisions of the Transport Act, provisional ascertainments of compensation had at 31st May been completed in 2,323 out of the 2,709 cases of firms compulsorily acquired, and payments on account totalling £26 million or approximately 90 per cent. as provided in the Act, had been made. In the 386 cases outstanding at that date, of which 148 were transferred in May, it had not been possible by that time to calculate the compensation payable, as the necessary accounts and other particulars required from the transferors were not available or had only recently been supplied.

The final settlement of compensation depends in each case on the two parties reaching agreement, on the basis of established principles. Differing interpretations placed on certain of the compensation provisions of the Transport Act can be finally resolved only by the Transport Arbitration Tribunal or by the Court of Appeal. As far as lies within the Commission's control, they have assured me that they are taking all possible steps to expedite final settlement in every case.

On a point of order. Has the House any protection against answers of extraordinary length like this being given?

I am afraid that the House has no protection against long answers. I am trying my best to get through Questions, but we have had some very long answers this afternoon. Cannot long answers be put into HANSARD? These are answers which really do spoil Question Time.

I do not wish to put an interminably long supplementary question, Sir. The only point that arises out of that very long and complicated answer is: What does the word "arrear" mean? The right hon. Gentleman said "not in arrear." Why cannot all these transactions be carried out on a businesslike basis and compensation paid in three months?

asked the Minister of Transport if he can now announce the date for the coming into operation of the Highways (Provision of Cattle Grids) Act.

This Act came into full operation on 10th May, 1951.

asked the Minister of Transport what recent assessment he has made as to the respective causes of accidents on the roads.

Police reports on all road accidents involving personal injury or death are analysed by my Department each month. The latest available monthly analysis shows that in April, 1951, 89 per cent. of the accidents were considered by the police to have been caused primarily by human error, 4 per cent. by vehicle defects, 2¼ per cent. by animals, ½ per cent. by weather conditions and ¾ per cent. by road defects

In view of that very interesting analysis, can the right hon. Gentleman say if he has any additional plans for dealing with these various causes, especially the first, which would seem to be utterly dependent on some form of education?

The problem of road accidents is very complex. The 89 per cent. is still further dissected and analysed as far as possible, and these matters are dealt with in our propaganda and educational work.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that, when he stated that only three-quarters of one per cent. of road defects constituted a primary cause of accidents, it was an entire misrepresentation, and that figures of that kind, while they are of some limited use, are almost valueless when seeking to assess the cause of accidents?

It is very difficult to argue that an analysis of this description is useless. I rather fancy that the hon. Member's point is that if we had a more modernised road system we would reduce accidents. In that I agree with him, but this is concerned with the technical defects of our roads, and not their efficiency, which I think is his major concern.

Could the right hon. Gentleman say how many accidents were due to too many C licence vehicles being on the roads?

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has received the report issued after the recent meeting of the North Atlantic Planning Board for Ocean Shipping and approved by the North Atlantic Council Deputies, in which is included an outline plan for the mobilisation of ocean-going shipping in a single pool in time of war or war-time emergency; and whether he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. As has already been announced, the North Atlantic Planning Board for Ocean Shipping has prepared a plan for determining the employment of ocean-going merchant shipping on a world-wide basis in time of war or war-time emergency. The main features of the plan are that each participating Government should take all the ocean-going ships of its own flag under its control and place them in a central pool for allocation to employment by an international organisation of a civilian character to be named the Defence Shipping Authority.

This Authority would be responsible for providing shipping to meet both the military and civil needs of the co-operating nations. Each Government would be responsible for the operation of the ships under its control and would ensure that they carried out the tasks allotted to them by the Defence Shipping Authority. The day-to-day work of the Authority would be carried out by two branches, one in London and one in Washington, on which all participating Governments would have the right to be represented. The London branch would deal primarily with the shipping and the demands for shipping services of the Eastern Hemisphere and similarly the Washington branch for the Western Hemisphere.

As it is rather difficult to assimilate at once all the facts we have been given, would the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that under no circumstances will British merchant shipping be handed over to an international authority? Will he remind himself of the very useful object lesson in 1945 when, Dutch shipping having been handed over to the Allied Fleet, the Dutch Government were not allowed to use it to send reinforcements to the Dutch East Indies? Will he also remember that this island, more than any other country, depends on its merchant ships for its survival? Could we have an assurance from the right hon. Gentleman on this point?

As I listened to the observations of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, I quite understood how difficult it is for him to understand the statement that I have made. I suggest that he should read it carefully, and if there is any further information that he requires I shall be happy to supply him with it. This follows exactly the same principle as applied in the last war. While the British merchant fleet, with others, will go into this international and Allied pool for shipping purposes, nevertheless, I hope he will notice that one of the main branches is in London, with headquarters in the Ministry of Transport.

The Minister said. that countries should put their shipping at the disposal of this Authority. How about the countries that have interests in the world outside the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation?

Does the hon. and gallant Gentleman mean friendly nations?

Commonwealth countries.

Friendly and Commonwealth nations are being kept informed. They are being given all the necessary information and will be brought into this organisation later.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this raises very big issues indeed and that it does not necessarily follow that war-time arrangements are the best suited to the situation? We shall have to make comments on this and maybe have a debate at an early date.

Certainly, but I might say that there are slight alterations in the scheme based on the experience of the last war. The point that I was emphasising was that the system of control, half of which is centred in this country, is in no way modified by this arrangement.

Is it not still true that our contribution will far exceed that of any other nation in this respect?

Yes, except that of America. I suppose that is why the division is on this basis but, as I have pointed out. there is no departure from the division of responsibility which prevailed in the last war.

asked the Minister of Transport how much goods traffic was carried by the British Railways for the first six months of 1935, 1936, 1937 and 1938; and how many people were employed by British Railways in these years.

As the answer involves a number of figures I will, with permission. circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Why it is that the railways were not able to carry the traffic this year without having to interfere with passenger transport when, pre-war, they could do that with less staff and carry more traffic?

I would ask the hon. Gentleman to look at the figures.

Is it not also rather an abuse of Question time for an hon. Member to put down a Question asking for information which was freely available if he cared to take the time to look for it?

asked the Minister of Transport when the Report of the British Transport Commission for the year 1950 will be available.

The Commission hopes that the Report will be available in the early part of July.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will inquire into the complaints made by returning Service men and their families about bad conditions on the troopship "Empire Orwell" which recently arrived in Southampton from the Far East.

I have already made inquiries and have ascertained that the complaints about the messing arrangements were made during the early part of the voyage. They were at once dealt with, and a committee of third-class passengers was set up by the military officer in charge of the troops on board to report any further complaints to him. No further complaints were, however, received.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the food conditions of third-class passengers are grossly inadequate, especially for children? Is it not also a fact, as his previous answer shows, that third-class passengers on these troopships, which mean soldiers below the rank of sergeant, are not allowed to see their wives and children on the voyage unless they can produce a medical certificate?

The food scales are based on the Service scales. The matter of soldiers seeing their wives is a point of Service discipline.

asked the Minister of Transport whether be is aware of the danger to vehicles travelling on the Great North Road and Gatesby Lane arising from the proximity of the runways on Leeming Royal Air Force station; and what action he proposes to take to prevent further accidents.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given him by my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Air, on 13th June.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will release for other purposes the inadequately-used car parks for visitors to the South Bank Exhibition.

Less use than was anticipated has so far been made of the car parks provided in connection with the Festival, and after discussion between the London County Council, the Metropolitan Police and my Department, it has been decided to close some of them, at any rate for the time being. The use of the parks may increase during the holiday months.

Would it not be a useful alternative to allow some of these car parks to be used as playgrounds during the holiday months? Alternatively. would it not help to meet some of the outlay if the parking fee of 2s. were reduced and coaches were allowed to park there, rather than have to go to Clapham Common?

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the additional pressure of traffic during the Festival of Britain, he will modify his Regulations which restrict standing in omnibuses.

The present order, which is permissive and not mandatory, allows eight standing passengers. Since August, 1949, the number in London has been restricted to five by the London Transport Executive in agreement with the Transport and General Workers' Union, in view, mainly, of the increased delivery of new vehicles. There is no indication as yet that the present bus services are inadequate to convey the additional traffic arising from the Festival of Britain.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very long queues which are left every evening at bus stops, particularly in central London? If he is not aware of this fact, will he become informed of it and take some action?

If that is the case, yes, Sir.