asked the Minister of Transport whether the Slough Corporation have now submitted to him for approval plans for the reconstruction and widening of the road bridge carrying the Uxbridge Road, A 412, over the Grand Union Canal where road traffic is now restricted as to speed and weight on account of the condition of the bridge.

No, Sir, but the borough engineer has discussed preliminary plans with my Department.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these restrictions have now been in force for a considerable time? Will he expedite the reconstruction and widening of this bridge, so that it is fit to carry modern traffic?

For the time being, I think I had better leave it to the experts. When I have received their report I will further consider the matter.

asked the Minister of Transport (1) on what grounds he has refused permission to the county borough of Tynemouth to impose a speed limit of 30 miles per hour within its boundary when Newcastle-upon-Tyne was given such authority covering the Cow Hill which is an open space without buildings of any kind; and if he will reconsider his decision;

(2) on what grounds the application of the county borough of Tynemouth to apply a 30-mile-per-hour speed limit on a portion of the main through road to the coast was refused, when the whole of the main Great North Road, within the boundaries of the city and county of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, is so restricted.

I think it is right to distinguish between the coast road, which was designed as a main through traffic route, and the Newcastle-upon-Tyne road passing Cow Hill and running between Town Moor and Nuns Moor, which are largely used for recreation. Though the North Road, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, is also a through traffic route it has a bad accident record despite the speed limit and the control of junctions by traffic lights and it passes close to Town Moor.

In view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is continually asserting that he accepts the advice of the local authorities in these matters, why does he accept advice from Newcastle and refuse it from Tynemouth? Will he reconsider the application of Tynemouth, as I have requested?

If there is a conflict of local opinion, I think I am justified in coming to a decision on the basis of the purpose for which the road was built.

asked the Minister of Transport whether His Majesty's Government will introduce legislation to enable A, B and C licence holders to carry traffics immobilised by the periodic embargoes imposed by British Railways.

No, Sir. Embargoes are an established method of overcoming railway traffic congestion and are usually limited in scope and of short duration. Powers are already available to enable A, B and C licence holders to carry traffic outside the terms of their licence to meet conditions of emergency.

While noting with interest the new method which is to be applied in running the transport system of this country, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he does not recollect that the system of calling in A and B free hauliers, and even C licence holders, was adopted by his Ministry for the purpose of breaking a strike? Surely it would be reasonable to use those methods of transport for overcoming the ordinary hold-ups in the railways which the right hon. Gentleman now regards as a permanent feature of our transport system.

It is not a new method. I do not look upon it as a normal method of overcoming temporary difficulties on the railways. The hon. Member is well aware that if vital food supplies or other necessities are required for the public action must be taken to ensure that they are provided.

Is the Minister aware that one firm in my division had 57 stations out of 58 closed by embargoes on 1st June this year? [AN HON. MEMBER: "For how long?"] Eleven days.

The hon. Member is aware that that has prevailed on many occasions in railway history to overcome temporary difficulties.

As the right hon. Gentleman does not accept the advice of my hon. Friend, will he tell the House how he intends to get over these difficulties?

By the method we have always adopted. If there is any difficulty powers exist for the purpose of trying to overcome it, but these temporary embargoes on railway traffic are entirely different from a state of emergency.

The right hon. Gentleman says that these things have always happened in railway history. Does he not recall that when the Bill to nationalise this industry was going through the House it was said that everything would be different and that these things would not happen?

A considerable improvement has taken place, but the difficulties have not been removed entirely.

asked the Minister of Transport under what Section of the Transport Act, 1947, he acted in conducting discussions with the Road Haulage Executive as to the use of privately-owned A, B and C licence holders for the purpose of carrying traffics immobilised by the road haulage strike in May.

The strike threatened essential transport services and I considered it my duty to see that all necessary steps would be taken to maintain them. It was in discharge of this general responsibility, and not of my functions under the Transport Act, 1947, that I took the action to which the hon. Member refers.

While not quarrelling for one moment with the action taken, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he would not agree that, in those circumstances, it is monstrous for him not to answer Questions in the House of Commons on the subject? Is he aware that I attempted to put down Questions to him at the time, and that he denied all responsibility, and yet he now admits that at that moment he was carrying on conversations with the people concerned?

The question of whether or not I should answer certain Questions has been a matter of discussion and general agreement.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the considerable services which A, B and C licence holders rendered to him on this occasion, and remember it when he is urged by his hon. Friends to inflict further injury upon them?

On a point of order. Arising out of this Question, I do not wish to put this point to you now, Mr. Speaker, but I wish to give notice that I propose to raise it with you as a point of order when you have had time to consider it. The point is that here was a Minister actually engaged in discussions with the Road Haulage Executive and yet flatly refusing to be answerable to the House for the discussions which he was entering upon. I propose at a suitable time to raise with you whether that sort of Question should not be asked and answered in the future.

If the hon. Member will put that in writing, and give me due notice, I will give the matter my consideration.

asked the Minister of Transport what action he proposes to take as the result of the Report to this House by the Select Committee on Statutory Instruments on the subject of Statutory Instrument, 1951, No. 736, made by him.

I explained the facts in regard to this Statutory Instrument in a memorandum to the Select Committee which was printed as an appendix to this Report. Subject to the views of the House, I do not think that in the circumstances any action on my part other than that indicated in my memorandum is called for.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it was after the submission to the Select Committee of the memorandum to which he refers, that the Select Committee reported this Order to the House on the ground that it made unusual or unexpected use of the delegated powers? Does the right hon. Gentleman's answer mean that he proposes to treat the recommendations of a Select Committee of the House with contempt?

Surely not. In my reply I said that, subject to any direction, I will do what I indicated in the memorandum, namely, make the regulations permanent after I have consulted the London and Home Counties Committee.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he gives no undertaking in the memorandum not to repeat the practices complained of at present? Is he prepared to give such an assurance now?

This is hardly likely to occur again. There were unusual circumstances, because of the Festival, the action of the police and the necessity for me to authorise special signs. I can hardly imagine that those circumstances are likely to be repeated.

asked the Minister of Transport how many accidents involving personal injury occurred in the last 12 months as a result of collisions at night with parked or slow-moving motor vehicles with defective rear lights.

During the 12 months ended 30th April, 1951, 340 road accidents involving personal injury were attributed by the police primarily to the absence or inadequacy of a rear light on a motor vehicle. Information is not available as to how many of these vehicles were either stationary or moving slowly.

Does not the Minister consider that these figures show that an inquiry should be held into the advisability of additional precautions, such as the use of reflectors on slow moving vehicles, in order to stop these dangerous accidents?

I do not think that a special inquiry is justified. The hon. and gallant Member will note that the police keep a check on these figures, which are not abnormal in relation to the total number of accidents.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will introduce regulations requiring islands on unlighted highways to be fitted with red reflectors in addition to being illuminated.

No, Sir. The use of red reflectors on islands might cause drivers to pass them on the right, which would be dangerous.

It is never dangerous to the "right."

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will introduce legislation in order to give appropriate sections of the Highway Code the force of law.

I have asked the Committee on Road Safety to consider and advise me on a scheme recently submitted to me for giving selected provisions of the Highway Code the force of law.

May we take it that the right hon. Gentleman is referring to conversations which he had with Mr. Edward Terrell, as reported in "The Times"? Can he say specifically whether Mr. Terrell will be invited to give evidence in person before the appropriate Departmental committee?

Yes, Sir. But this is not a Departmental committee. It is my Committee on Road Safety of which the Parliamentary Secretary is chairman. I have arranged for Mr. Terrell to discuss the matter with that body.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will inquire into the habit of omnibuses going into Victoria Station, first stopping for several minutes on the streets outside the Station yard; and, in view of the congestion and inconvenience caused by this practice to the flow of traffic, if he will take steps to stop it.

Buses occasionally arrive ahead of schedule when there is no room for them in the forecourt at the station. The London Transport Executive inform me that they do their best to minimise this, but it cannot be avoided altogether.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is a regular happening, and that I have seen buses standing in a line in the main streets outside the railway station at a time when there has been room in the yard, otherwise I should not have brought this matter forward; and does he realise that a re-scheduling of the buses is called for? Further, and most important, is he aware that visitors to London—frequently foreign visitors—often get off these buses under the impression that they have finished their journey and, at the risk of life and limb, go through the traffic to get to the station?

The hon. Member has said that he has seen buses outside the station when there has been room in the yard, and I will have that matter investigated. Generally speaking, these buses serve routes on which there is very heavy traffic, and it is impossible to keep them to a five minute schedule. London Transport keep a careful check, but I will have inquiries made.

How does one cure an omnibus of a bad habit?

asked the Minister of Transport how much was spent from all sources on new constructions, improvement and maintenance of the roads in 1950–51; and what is the estimate for the current financial year.

A firm figure for 1950–51 will not be available until returns of actual expenditure have been received from local highway authorities, but I estimate that total expenditure was about £56 million compared with an estimate of about £60 million for the current year.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether a sum of £18 million is necessary over and above the expenditure last year to put the roads into a normal state of maintenance and repair? If so, can he say how much of that £18 million he has had Treasury permission to spend this year?

I should not like to commit myself to the figure. In this case, the hon. Member will see that there is increased provision, and this is primarily to improve the maintenance standard, which is now just over 60 per cent. We hope to raise it to approximately 70 per cent.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the poor state of the unclassified roads in the Highlands, he will ensure that in any special arrangements for road construction to be made, whether for strategic or other purposes, no attempt will be made to curtail expenditure proposed by local authorities for these roads.

Expenditure on the highway system of the country as a whole has to be limited in view of other demands of vital importance upon the national resources. Of the amount available for roads, it is necessary that a due proportion should be spent on those of the greatest importance to the community. It is for this reason that the Government have decided that total expenditure on unclassified roads should be restricted, and I cannot ignore this policy in dealing with the Highlands.

is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the expenditure on unclassified roads in the Highlands is approximately one-half per mile per annum compared with the rest of the country? Will he bear that in mind?

That may be so, but, taking Scotland as a whole, I do not think that the roads there have been neglected either under this form of expenditure or under grant-aided expenditure.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that deterioration of such roads in the Highlands is proceeding faster than reconstruction?

I fully agree that all our roads could do with a higher standard of maintenance, but I do not agree that Scottish roads suffer by comparison.

While recognising that special action is needed in regard to these roads owing to their particularly bad condition, may I ask my right hon. Friend if he does not agree that much progress could have been made by local authorities in those areas had they not supported Lord Woolton's appeal that there should be no public expenditure for this purpose?

Since the right hon. Gentleman does not dispute that only about half is spent on Scottish roads compared with roads in England, is there no room for readjustment of expenditure in the interest of Scotland without asking for any more money overall?

I do not think there is any justification for a special concession for Scotland. As a matter of fact, last year the Government agreed to an expenditure of £750,000 for a special additional grant for roads in Scotland.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport how many meetings of the London Transport Users Consultative Committee have been held during the last 12 months; when the last meeting was held; when the next will be held; and what was the cost of the committee during the last 12 months.

This Committee met four times during the last 12 months. Its last meeting was on 14th June, and its next will be on 13th September. No separate figure of the cost is available, but for the year 1950 this Committee, together with the Central Transport Consultative Committee, cost £6,228.

Does the Minister consider that four meetings a year are adequate to deal with the number of complaints there are?

The statutory number is two, and any three members of the Committee can always convene a special meeting for any purpose which they consider is warranted.

Are we to assume from the right hon. Gentleman's reply that he agrees with the statement of the hon. Member for Coventry, East (Mr. Crossman), that the Socialist movement has always assumed that no consumers' council would ever work, and was not in the least surprised that it did not?

I am not conversant with, nor do I very much care about, what any particular hon. Member says —[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—but I am entitled to emphasise that the consultative machinery under the Transport Act is designed to serve a useful purpose, and, judging by the type of persons who have accepted invitations to serve throughout the country, they take the same view.

Quite apart from his views on his hon. Friend, has the right hon. Gentleman any concrete evidence that a consultative committee has ever been of any use to the consumer?

The comments I might direct elsewhere apply to hon. Members opposite as well.

Will the Minister consider ordering the Committee to have a monthly meeting, so that these matters can be dealt with more expeditiously?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Transport how many reports he has received from area consultative committees; and which areas.

There is no provision in the Transport Act for these committees to report to me. Their recommendations and conclusions are sent to the Central Transport Consultative Committee and to the British Transport Commission.

Has the right hon. Gentleman, through that report, had his attention directed to the fact that the Great Northern Hotel is now charging 5s. per head for baths? Does he think that a good advertisement for foreign visitors coming to this country?

If any point raised by an area consultative committee is considered important enough, then the Central Transport Consultative Committee record it and pass it on to me.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it would appear from his answers that the line he seems to take when any complaints are made is that the consumer is always wrong?

On the contrary, I nearly always take the view that the consumer is always right.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the danger to children, he will cause an inquiry to be made into the unguarded stretch of the Regent Canal, between Warwick Avenue and Maida Vale.

It is open to the local authority to take action under the Canals Protection (London) Act, 1898. This Act provides in effect that if, in the opinion of the local authority, any part of a canal in London within its jurisdiction is insufficiently protected at any place where it abuts upon a public highway so as to involve danger to human life the local authority can require the canal undertakers to erect and maintain such fences as may, in their opinion, be required to obviate the danger.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will apply the 30 miles per hour speed limit to Fryent Way, Wembley.

No, Sir. On the advice of the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee I have recently removed the speed limit from a length of this road which is not built-up.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the considerable local feeling in this matter, and of the unhappy threat by some parents to lie down in the road to prevent this thoroughfare becoming a speedway track? Does he not recall the fact that the local council did make representations to him with a view to this particular thoroughfare having a speed limit?

I am quite aware that this sort of thing represents a very controversial subject from time to time right throughout the country, but we really must apply certain tests and standards; otherwise, the whole of our roads, at some time or other, will become subject to these speed restrictions.

asked the Minister of Transport if he is aware of the concern of the travelling public at the decline in safety standards in the Western Region of British Railways since nationalisation, due to the alteration and modification of the pre-nationalised Great Western Railway arrangements for automatic signalling and train control; and if he will make a statement.

I have seen references in the Press to local representations by the footplate staff of the Western Region, who are objecting to certain recent changes. I am, however, satisfied, on the advice of the inspecting officers of railways, that there has been no relaxation of the necessary standards of safety and that there is no cause for apprehension by the travelling public. The automatic train control system of the old Great Western Railway Company has not been altered, and the wider extension of automatic train control of an improved type, which is now under large-scale experiment, has been accepted as desirable by the British Transport Commission.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House the assurance that no decline in signalling and train control standards will be permitted in the near future, particularly in view of an allegation by the Great Western men which reads:

"Reckless and inefficient administration under nationalisation has impaired the efficiency of the Western Region of British Railways."

If the hon. Member reads my reply, I think he will find that the assurance is quite specific, but I should emphasise that the inspecting staff of my Department are entirely responsible to the Ministry, and are in no way subject to Railway Executive or Transport Commission influence or directions.

Is the Minister aware that over 1,000 railwaymen have signed a petition, and is he suggesting that his views are right and that the views of 1,000 railwaymen are wrong?

I am not suggesting that my views are right at all, but what I am giving here is the considered judgment of my railway inspecting officers, who are very familiar with these matters, and I would rather not comment on views that may dissent from them.

Is the Minister aware that some Western Region drivers contend that the higher accident rate on the old L.M.S. than on the Great Western in pre-war days was due to the rule regarding speed restrictions on that railway, which has now become standard for all railways?

No, I am not aware of that.

Has the Minister received any official representations on this matter from the union concerned?

I could not say off-hand, but I do know that this is the subject of more or less continuous examination by the railway unions and the railway managements. Also, my own inspecting officers examine every proposed change. They are an independent technical body and contribute to the discussions. In so far as inquiry is more or less continuous, I do not like to give a direct negative.

On a point of order. May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether you will be good enough to take note of this Question as being the useful prototype of the kind of Questions which the Minister has refused in the past, but which we are all delighted to see on the Order Paper?

Further to that point of order. This question affects the railway inspectorate department of my Ministry and, therefore, raises a different issue from matters of management by the Transport Commission.

If the noble Lord was making any reflection on the way in which Questions are selected by the Chair, that is out of order. I think the Minister has put it quite clearly.

asked the Minister of Transport what will be the cost of the construction and erection of the eight 25 feet concrete columns carrying sodium-type lamps at the trunk road at Roundhouse roundabout at Sturminster Marshall.

Tenders have not yet been obtained for this work, but I estimate that the cost of construction and erection of the eight columns, together with sodium-type lamps, will be £500 approximately. In addition, the cost of cable and switching connections will be about £400.

On what grounds does the right hon. Gentleman feel justified in embarking on this great expenditure? Has he had a census made of traffic during the hours of darkness?

No, but I want to inform the hon. Member that as a result of his series of Questions it is my intention to look further into this matter. I understand that this was a rather bad accident area before this reconstruction took place.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will give instructions to all road authorities to offer the surrounds and centres of roundabouts on trunk roads to local nurserymen, on condition that they maintain them free of cost in return for the advertising facilities provided.

I do not think that the exhibition of advertisements on roundabouts would be at all desirable.

Is the right hon. Gentleman conversant with the type of advertising involved on these sites, which is a board about six inches high and about two feet long, and does not distract the attention of the motorist? Is he aware that the Wimborne Festival Gardens were entirely laid out by private enterprise?

I deprecate advertisements on highways which divert the attention of drivers from the essential signs.

Has the Minister taken the trouble to see the derelict sites in various parts of the country which have been converted into beautiful gardens in this way, where the signs are not obnoxious and are not more than two feet long? If not, will he do so?

asked the Minister of Transport what are the functions of the horticulturist and assistant horticulturist in his Department, referred to in the Civil Estimates, Class VI, page 145.

The duties of the two officers are to prepare, supervise and coordinate planting schemes on trunk roads; to advise on contracts for the propagation and production of plants and to supervise the growth of the stock; and to ensure economy in the supply and use of plants and their subsequent upkeep. They also examine planting proposals submitted by local highway authorities in connection with applications for grants from the Road Fund.

Is the Minister aware that the combined estimate for these two gentlemen is £1,788, and can he say how much of their time is taken up in dealing with roundabouts such as my hon. Friend suggested?

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether these gentlemen have a good knowledge of pruning?

Do these gentlemen do anything towards the discontinuation of weeds along our public roads which interfere with farm crops?

The construction of roadways and their planting can add considerably to the amenities. Highway authorities need the advice of central experts on these matters, and I do not think that this expenditure ought to be begrudged.

Would not the Minister agree that this is a gross waste of public money? Is it not a monstrous thing that poor people should have to pay Purchase Tax in order to pay the salaries of gentlemen who then go out and plant out our highways?

asked the Minister of Transport the total number of C licences issued at the most recent convenient date; how many of such licences relate to trailers drawn by tractors for which a separate C licence is issued; vehicles carrying goods or produce from one section of a commercial undertaking to another without going upon the highway; or vehicles of less than 30 hundredweights unladen weight, respectively.

At 31st March, 1951, there were 385,001 C carriers' licenses in force covering 747,898 mechanically propelled road vehicles, of which 410,266 did not exceed 30 cwt. unladen weight. No record is available of the number of trailers authorised under C licences, and no trailers are included in the figures I have just given. No carrier's licence is required for a vehicle which is not used on the roads.

Can the Minister further break down the figures with regard to C licences? He will no doubt appreciate the point of the Question, that we are trying to arrive at the actual number of C licences issued for road haulage?

I would remind the hon. Member that quite recently considerable steps were taken for the purpose of compiling these statistics. I should not like to incur any further expense at the moment.

asked the Minister of Transport how many times he has met the Transport Commission since it was set up; and whether he has made arrangements for meeting it at regular intervals.

I have no precise account of the many times I have met the Transport Commission or its members, but I do so whenever I judge it necessary. I do not meet them at regular intervals.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is considerable support on this side of the House for his taking more energetic ministerial action to create greater decentralisation in this matter? Will he also bear in mind that there is great support on this side of the House for seeing that the people who have mismanaged this industry in the past should not continue to do so, thus sabotaging the will of the people?

My hon. Friend must not assume that the process of decentralisation is not going on; it is, and very considerably.

Would my right hon. Friend look into any specific examples of greater centralisation which has taken place recently?

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that the advice in paragraph 44 of the Highway Code to drivers of vehicles carrying projecting loads is not being complied with; and what action he proposes to take in order to protect other road users.

I have no information that this advice is being disregarded, but if the hon. Member will let me have any evidence that it is in cases where danger is likely to be caused to other road users I will be glad to consider it.

Is the Minister aware that if he motors along A.6 on a day of poor visibility he will find pieces of machinery of all kinds—lifeboats, combine harvesters, etc.—on trailers and various sorts of trucks, which project over the road and which have only the most skimpy bit of grey rag attached to them to mark their extremity.

I have often motored along A.6, and I may say that, generally speaking, my observations do not confirm what the hon. Member has said. In any case, special loads come under police direction.

Is it not a fact that at night the extremities of such loads must be marked by lights whereas in the day this is not so? Does not the Minister agree that it is time that the two methods were put on a proper basis?

The light at night is, of course, according to regulation. I do not think the light method in the day time would be so suitable as the attaching of rag, or whatever it may be, which is more easily discernible in daylight.

asked the Minister of Transport whether in view of the Transport Tribunal's announcement on 6th April, 1951, that the Charges Scheme would not be available before 1954, he proposes to take any steps in the meantime to alleviate the burden of high transport costs in remote areas, particularly in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, by means of subsidy.

No, Sir. Such a subsidy, which would be primarily for the benefit of trade and industry in Scotland, would not be a matter for me.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that at present there is no prospect of alleviation of transport costs in the remote areas until 1954, whereas at the same time there is no guarantee that costs may not be putting a greater proportionate burden on these areas?

Whether that may be so or not, there still remains the question of a special subsidy for roads in any special part of the country and that is not within my determination.

Has my right hon. Friend received from the fish merchants and curers of Aberdeen a memorandum on the subject of high freight charges and late deliveries of fish at Billingsgate? If he has received that memorandum will he consider it?

I am sure my hon. Friend is aware that if there is any question of a special rate for fish it does not fall to my Department to determine it.

What is the Minister proposing to do? Is he going to wait until 1954, while periodic flat-rate increases are made which are a particularly crippling burden to these areas, or has he any suggestions at all to make?

I certainly do not find any assistance from the interjections of the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Transport whether countries within the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which also have commitments in other parts of the world, are free to decide how they allocate their shipping to the Defence Shipping Authority; and, if not, how this is to be done.

The intention is that the Defence Shipping Authority should be responsible for meeting shipping needs in all parts of the world, not only in the North Atlantic area. Countries having commitments in other parts of the world could, therefore, call upon the services, not only of their own ships, but also of all other ships under the control of this Authority.

asked the Minister of Transport to what extent British shipping is penalised by flag discrimination; and what representations have been made to other countries in this connection.

I regret that it is not possible to state the extent to which British shipping has been penalised by flag discrimination, nor to state, within the limits of a Parliamentary answer, the representations that have been made to other countries in this connection, but as the hon. and gallant Member is aware it is the policy of His Majesty's Government to do their utmost to secure the removal of all forms of flag discrimination.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say whether this practice is increasing or decreasing?

It all depends on the periods. I should say that, in the immediate post-war years, there has been a tendency for it to increase. The Government continually follow these matters up and make representations with a view to minimising them as far as possible.

asked the Minister of Transport what information he has received following the inquiries he has recently made from local authorities and other bodies on the subject of the pollution of the sea and of beaches by oil; and what action he proposes to take as a result.

The inquiries to which the hon. Member refers cover all aspects of the problem of oil pollution, including the extent, cause and effects of, and possible remedies for, pollution of the coasts of the United Kingdom. When the replies have been received and collated a summary will be sent to the Secretary-General of the United Nations in accordance with the recommendation made by the Transport and Communications Commission of the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations in April, 1951.

As it is now over three months since the Minister asked for information from local authorities for submission to the Inter-Governmental Maritime Consultative Organisation of the United Nations, can he say when that organisation is to be set up?

I cannot expedite the replies from local authorities. They are coming in, and when sufficient information is in my Department the necessary action will be taken.

Is the Minister aware that this is a matter of very great concern in the West Country, especially in Cornwall?

Yes, I appreciate that.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether, when this report is prepared, there will be an opportunity for hon. Members to see it in, for instance, the Library, or elsewhere?

I will certainly take note of that.

asked the Minister of Supply if he will increase the supply of cartridges in order to facilitate the destruction of vermin.

The principal manufacturers of these cartridges increased supplies to the trade from 1st May last. If the hon. Member knows of any area where there are special difficulties, and will let me have details, I will investigate them.

Is the Minister aware that most suppliers are allocating cartridges on the basis of the number taken in the previous year and that where people did not have any the year before there is a great deal of unfairness? Is he also aware that a very small extra supply of cartridges would get rid of that unfairness?

We have increased the supplies. If the hon. Member will let me have particulars of any special cases, I will look into them.

What guarantee can we have that any such cartridges are used for the destruction of vermin?

Will the Minister look into conditions generally in the rural areas of Kent, where we are experiencing great difficulty in this matter?

asked the Minister of Supply what progress has been made in the development of the twin-engined helicopter, the Bristol 173.

The Bristol Aeroplane Company, Limited, are carrying out ground running tests of the first prototype of the Bristol 173. When these are satisfactorily completed flight testing will begin.

In view of the importance of the helicopter in peace or war will the Minister give every possible support to this new effort to lead the world in helicopters? What is the seating capacity of the Bristol 173?

The Bristol 173 has a seating capacity of 10 to 12 passengers and this is the first effort we are making. We must wait and see the results of these tests before we take any further steps.

asked the Minister of Supply how many tons of iron and steel scrap have been exported to Canada in the last three months.

No exports of iron and steel scrap are recorded for the months of March, April and May of this year, the latest dates for which figures are available.

Is the Minister aware that his information does not coincide with mine and will he investigate any case I bring to his notice?

I can account for that. The Board of Trade classification of iron and steel scrap includes certain materials which are strictly not iron and steel scrap, such as used steel articles, but we did not export during those months iron and steel scrap proper, as normally understood.

Will the Minister endeavour to stop the export of used steel articles to Canada while there is such a shortage in this country?

They are only exported under licence in special circumstances and very little has been exported.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he is yet in a position to give a reliable forecast of the total British production of iron and steel for the year 1951; and to what extent that production, added to iron and steel imports, will be adequate for the needs of the defence and export programmes and essential home consumption.

No reliable forecast of total United Kingdom production of iron and steel for this year can yet be given, but supplies should be adequate to meet the general requirements of the Defence and other essential programmes.

In view of the Chancellor's statement last Thursday, when he said there would be a 10 per cent. gap between aggregate demand and aggregate supply, surely it is not unreasonable to ask the Minister to give us the arithmetic of the position.

I said that no reliable forecast can yet be given, and anyhow the Chancellor did not give a specific figure of 10 per cent. He said it was unlikely to be more than 10 per cent.

In view of the Chancellor's statement, is not the Minister aware that there is a serious shortage at present? Does that mean that production is to be increased in the last half of the year?

No, there is a shortage now and I fear there will be a shortage during the rest of the year. The Question asks whether there will be sufficient to meet defence and other essential programmes and my answer is that, on the whole, there will be.

Does that mean that supplies to other users will have to be cut down?

When the allocation scheme comes into operation there will be some users who will have to do with rather less than they are using now.

When the Minister talks about essential programmes does he include agriculture?

Some aspects of it, certainly.

When will the Minister give a reliable forecast?

There are some uncertain factors and it is misleading to give any figure unless one knows how circumstances will turn out.

asked the Minister of Supply what action he has taken to ensure that there will be adequate supplies of imported iron ore for steel production in 1952.

The Iron and Steel Corporation of Great Britain is doing everything possible to ensure adequate supplies in 1952.

In view of that reply, will my right hon. Friend say whether he is satisfied with the present control over the iron ore importing companies by the Iron and Steel Federation? Will he also take care to ensure that the Federation does not use these companies to frustrate the will of the people as expressed in an Act of Parliament?

I am not at all satisfied that the Corporation have, at present, adequate control over the importing companies.

If I produce a case where the action of the Coal Board in withholding a supply of bunkers to a ship on charter is impeding the import of iron ore into this country, will the Minister look into it?

I will certainly do so.

If my right hon. Friend has not got adequate powers over the Federation will he consider means of getting it soon?

The matter is at present under discussion between the Iron and Steel Corporation and the Federation, and I hope that the outcome will be satisfactory.

asked the Minister of Supply the aggregate value of machine tools for the defence programme received in the United Kingdom during the period of 12 months ended June 1951, respectively, from American and Continental sources; the values respectively of machine tools for the defence programme outstanding for delivery from these sources; to what extent delivery is proceeding according to schedule; and whether he will make a statement.

My Department has ordered machine tools for the defence programme from the United States and Western Europe to the value of £53 million and £40 million, respectively, during this period. Deliveries so far, amounting to £500,000 and £1 million, respectively, have been made as scheduled. Large-scale deliveries are not due to start until later in the year and all practical steps are being taken to ensure that our requirements are met in time.

Can the Minister give the House an assurance that he expects the arrival of all these machine tools at a rate commensurate with the rate of increased output of tanks, guns, aircraft and military impedimenta of all descriptions?

There is no reason at the moment to suggest that we shall not get these machine tools in time, but it is impossible to give any guarantee.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Continental sources referred to in the Question include Czechoslovakia and what is now the position with regard to the reciprocal orders for machine tools placed between Czechoslovakia and this country?

I could not give an answer to that without notice.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he will now make a statement about the availability of steel supplies during the remainder of this year; and in what direction it is proposed to restrict their use.

I would refer the hon. Member to the statement made by my right hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer last Thursday.

Would the right hon. Gentleman take advantage of this Question to give us further details? Will he also undertake that in any restriction the needs of agricultural machinery, especially agricultural spares, will be borne in mind?

Yes, Sir. The hon. Member can be assured that we realise the importance of agricultural machinery.

In view of the Chancellor's reply, to which the Minister referred, and the shortage he mentioned, is the Minister now prepared to take action to stop the export of 100,000 tons of steel rails to Persia which the Government have now authorised and which will be badly needed in this country?

I should like to see that question on the Order Paper, and anyhow it is a question for the President of the Board of Trade.

asked the Minister of Supply on what date the Iron and Steel Corporation drew his attention to the serious shortage of aluminium, nickel and zinc.

The Iron and Steel Corporation are not responsible for aluminium, nickel and zinc.

Will the Minister please answer the Question? I asked him on what date that information was given to his Department. Will he say whether such information was given to his Department or not?

As the Iron and Steel Corporation have no responsibility whatsoever for aluminium, nickel and zinc, obviously they do not communicate with me on that subject.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the judgment of the King's Bench Divisional Court dismissing the appeal of Clarence Harry Willcock from a decision of magistrates concerning the refusal to produce an identity card, he will review in all Departments concerned the emergency legislation still existing so as to terminate such legislation at an early date.

The emergency legislation still in force is already kept under review, so that powers which are no longer required may be relinquished without delay.

Is the Prime Minister aware of a statement made by the Home Secretary, I think, on 27th June last year, that the National Register and the identity card were both alien to the British mode of life, and, further, that he apparently went on to state, on behalf of the Government, that the then Minister of Health proposed to bring forward a Bill to abolish both the Register and the identity card—a statement made in the Standing Committee upstairs on the Maintenance Orders Bill?

I shall have to look that up.

When my right hon. Friend looks up that statement will he then consider the desirability of at least reviewing the identity card system, which is now being used for a variety of purposes quite outside the original reasons for which the identity card was introduced?

I think that is another question. There is, of course, a case for looking into it.

Will the Prime Minister introduce legislation to allow those who are convicted under emergency powers by county agricultural executive committees to bring an appeal to a properly constituted court? Why does not the right hon. Gentleman answer?

asked the Prime Minister if, in view of the succession of Cabinet casualties through illness during the last six years, resulting from the heavy strain of office, he will consider setting up an investigation into the machinery of government, with a view to reducing the strain on individual Ministers by a suitable system of decentralisation.

No, Sir.

Since the Machinery of Government Committee of the Cabinet set up in the last Parliament is reputed to have met only twice and since then has ceased to function, and since representations were made to my right hon. Friend by a group of Labour Members suggesting that action should be taken about this very important matter, could the Prime Minister say what steps are intended to be taken by the Government with a view to something being done?

The matter is considered from time to time.

Would it not be simpler to give the whole lot a holiday and have a change?

Would there not be less strain on Ministers if there were a greater measure of self-government for Scotland?

Have the carefully considered and entirely non-party arguments put forward by Sir John Anderson in a Romanes lecture in 1946 been carefully considered by the Government?

I shall have to look that up.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will initiate consideration of one Department being made responsible for the inspection and control of slaughterhouses for horses as well as other animals throughout the country.

I think this question must await the outcome of the consideration now being given to the long-term arrangements for the slaughter of home produced livestock. In this connection the Ministry of Food and the Ministry of Agriculture are having discussions with the interests concerned.