asked the Minister of Health how actual expenditure, to the nearest convenient date, upon the provision of dentures and spectacles by the National Health Service compares with the revised estimates submitted by his predecessor after the institution of charges for these articles.

The revised estimates were for the whole of the financial year, and no separate estimate was submitted for the provision of dentures. It seems probable that expenditure on the general dental services as a whole will be about equal to the estimate, while that on the supplementary ophthalmic services will be about £5 million below.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how much of that in pounds or in proportion relates to Scotland, where they generally see things very clearly.

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has now completed his inquiries into the action of the Ely Hospital Committee, Cardiff, in enforcing the retirement of Mr. David Roberts.

Yes, Sir. I am satisfied that the Committee acted properly in the matter.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the widespread concern about the situation at the Caernarvonshire and Anglesey General Infirmary, Bangor, culminating recently in a strike by the nursing staff; and if he will institute a full inquiry into all aspects of the matter, including the functioning of the Hospital Management Committee for the area and the administration of this hospital in particular.

I am aware of this incident and have asked the Regional Hospital Board for a report. I will consider when I have received it whether further action on my part is desirable.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that children in Cardiff needing operative treatment for their eyes have to wait as long as three years before being admitted to hospital; and what steps he is taking to deal with this problem.

Yes, Sir. I am informed that the Welsh Regional Hospital Board and the Board of Governors of the United Cardiff Hospitals are considering measures to increase the facilities available.

Can the Minister say whether it will be possible to allocate more beds for this type of case in the near rather than in the distant future?

I do not know which future is involved, but plans are being considered for increasing the number of beds.

It is very urgent.

asked the Minister of Health how many applications for hearing aids to be supplied under the National Health Service in England and Wales were outstanding at the latest convenient date.

The number was 110,215, on 31st August last.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how long these applicants have been waiting? For example, what is the earliest completion date, or the average completion date?

I could not possibly do that without notice. I can say, however, that out of the figure outstanding in August something like 25,000 have since been supplied.

Can the Minister say whether those on the waiting list who have actually been examined for hearing aid will have to pay the new proposed charge for that aid?

I think we had better wait until we come to the Bill to discuss that question.

Can the Minister say how many of those on the waiting list are waiting for the bone conduction type of hearing aid, which is not yet available?

I really could not on a Question which only asks me for a total.

asked the Minister of Health what was the cost of supplying hearing aids under the National Health Service in England and Wales in the financial year 1950–51; what is the estimated cost in the current financial year, on the assumption that full charge is borne by the National Health Service; and what is the estimated saving to the Exchequer resulting from the proposed charge to applicants in a full financial year.

In 1950–51 the cost of instruments purchased—excluding batteries for electrical hearing aids—was £327,000. The revised estimate for the current financial year is £545,000. The proposed charges are estimated to produce about £61,500 in a full year.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that in view of the comparatively small sum involved he ought to withdraw this quite preposterous charge?

Will the Minister say whether this estimate includes charging those who are on the present waiting list?

It is the estimate of the expenditure for the current financial year.

asked the Minister of Health in view of the long delay in providing patients with deaf aids of the type at present provided under the National Insurance Scheme, what new types are being developed to meet the needs of persons in cases of urgency; and how long it will be before they are available.

The only new type of hearing aid being developed for the National Health Service is a bone conduction type, and I cannot yet say when this will be available. The vast majority of deaf people need air-conduction aids, and the development of new types would not shorten the waiting period for them.

As many of the old people who are now waiting for hearing aids will probably not live long enough to receive them and as there are aids on the market which they could purchase forthwith, would my right hon. Friend consider making them a grant equivalent to the cost of the aid which is supplied under the National Health Service so that they may immediately buy a hearing aid?

All I would say in reply to that is that the present aid which is being used is considered to be the best for the purposes.

asked the Minister of Health if he will continue the provision of hearing aids for children without payment.

Yes, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the appreciation of that answer?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that Mr. E. W. Drury, an old-age pensioner, 7, New Street, Stratford-on-Avon, has been waiting for a hearing aid for over 12 months and has been informed that he will probably have to wait for a further six months before receiving the appliance; what are the reasons which are causing such delay in the supply of hearing aids; and to what extent Mr. Drury's circumstances are typical of the majority of elderly people requiring these appliances.

Yes, Sir. The delay here, as elsewhere, is due to the large accumulated demand, but the greatly increased numbers of aids now being distributed should lead to a marked reduction in the time of waiting.

During the further period of waiting which will be necessary would my right hon. Friend consider the suggestion made by my hon. Friend the Member for Leominster (Mr. Baldwin) that they should be given a grant to enable them to buy these aids on the open market?

No, I really think it is better to give people, even if they have to wait a little longer, the best possible appliances.

Would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if they wait only a little longer they will have to pay for them, whereas if they had got them when they applied for them they would have had them free? Does he think it fair to penalise in this way people who have been waiting for a long time and who are not themselves in any way responsible for the delay? In the proposals he is now considering will he make an exemption in favour of those whose application for hearing aids has been outstanding for a considerable time?

This is Question time. I submit that this is not the time to announce decisions of policy arising out of supplementary questions, but, of course, I take note of all the suggestions which are made to me in this House.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that whilst what he says is true, one of the most substantial elements of Question time is that Members have the opportunity to examine Ministers and to put supplementary questions of a critical character which Ministers ought to answer?

I said I would take notice of the questions. It is not necessary to answer supplementary questions which do not necessarily arise.

rose—

Order.

Mr. Speaker—

Does the hon. Member desire to raise a point of order?

Yes, Sir. In view of the fact that I am satisfied with the answer to the Question which I put down —[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—well, if after I have considered the answer I am not satisfied I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

The Minister has just stated that he could not deal with questions of policy in reply to supplementary questions, but did he not make a statement of policy in relation to identity cards in reply to Questions?

On a point of order. In view of the fact that my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford (Mr. Profumo), has given notice that he will raise this matter on the Adjournment—

No.

Order. I cannot hear the point of order.

In view of the fact that my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford, who asked this Question, has given notice that he will raise this matter on the Adjournment is any further supplementary question in order?

The hon. Member for Stratford (Mr. Profumo), who asked the Question, gave a conditional notice that if he were not satisfied he would raise the point. That is not quite good enough.

Further to that point of order, Sir. The Minister has just attempted to lay down a principle about making statements of policy in reply to supplementary questions. In reply to Question No. 25—

Speak up.

We really are wasting too much time over this. The hon. and learned Gentleman has so far disclosed no point of order. He has disclosed a matter of his own complaint against the Minister, but that is not for me to deal with.

On a point of order. In view of the fact that I am not at all satisfied with the failure to get any answer at all to my supplementary question, may I give notice that I will seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment?

Is it not constitutionally correct that a Minister has a right not to answer a question if he so desires?

That is certainly so.

asked the Minister of Health (1) the approximate length of time spectacle frames supplied under the National Health Act are estimated by his Department to last if they are treated with reasonable care;

It is impossible to give any general estimate.

Would my right hon. Friend consider drawing the attention of the industry to the need to preserve spectacle frames, because people are being told when they have new lenses that it is necessary to have new frames? This is diverting money from other essential spheres of the Health Service.

I will certainly take note of that.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give an estimate of the increased cost of the hospital service for 1952–53, over 1951–52, due to increased prices of food and other essential hospital supplies.

I would ask the hon. Member to wait for the publication of the estimates next month.

Can the right hon. Gentleman at least give an assurance that there will be no attempt to reduce the amount of the essential food supplies, in particular to hospital authorities, in view of the very disquieting announcement made by the South-West Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board?

I am not aware of any such suggestion.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the announcement made by the South-West Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board regarding the amount to be made available to hospitals?

The hon. Gentleman asked me if there was any question of cutting down the food. That is what I was talking about.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give an estimate of the proportion of prescriptions, under 1s. in value, supplied under the National Health Service during 1951, or the latest period for which an estimate can be made.

It is estimated that the proportion costing the Service less than 1s. is insignificant.

Does the right hon. Gentleman propose, in these cases—even if they are insignificant there are a certain number of them—to charge them more than the actual value of the prescription?

The 1s. charge proposed is per form and not per prescription.

asked the Minister of Health what would be the estimated cost of exempting old-age pensioners from paying for prescriptions under the National Health Act.

The annual cost to the National Health Service in England and Wales might be about £1½ million.

Has my right hon. Friend taken into account, in making his calculations, that many old age pensioners will be driven on to National Assistance, as they are now debarred by their pride from accepting National Assistance?

Would the Leader of the House be good enough, in order to make clear that this is not a purely party question, to convey to the hon. and gallant Member for Portsmouth (Brigadier Clarke) the fact that if he cares to put down an Amendment to this effect some of us on this side of the House will be able to give him support?

I have no intention of putting one down to help hon. Gentlemen opposite.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the large increase in the numbers in the administrative staffs in relation to the numbers of beds in the voluntary hospitals since they were taken over by the National Health Service; and if he will investigate this to see if any advantage is gained by this increase, or whether it cannot be materially reduced.

Yes, Sir. A review of these staffs is in progress, and steps are being taken to secure reductions where the review shows the need for it.

asked the Minister of Health what action he proposes to take to avoid the closing of five hospitals in the Northern Region consequent upon the reduction made by him on the estimates of a Northern Regional Hospital Board.

I understand that the funds to meet revenue expenditure in 1952–53 which I have now been able to allow the Board will probably obviate the closing of any of these hospitals.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask if he will make the avoidance a certainty rather than a probability?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that some surgical boots cost from £12 to £15 a pair; that this charge is often beyond the means of the applicant, who is usually already reduced in earning power because of such disability and who may be unable to follow his occupation accordingly; and whether he will take steps to relieve such hardship.

Yes, Sir; it is pro-Posed to make a fixed charge of £3 a pair for surgical boots and shoes.

Is it not obvious that this will penalise those who are the greatest sufferers? Will the right hon. Gentleman not reconsider the whole matter in view of the very great difficulties in which these people will be placed?

The charge of £3 is, of course, about the cost of ordinary footwear which these persons do not have to buy.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the saving made by this charge will be very small, but that it will impose tremendous difficulty on working people to whom £3 is sometimes a week's wages? Will he look at this matter again? It is a monstrous business.

asked the Minister of Health the aggregate sum of money, represented by past and current licences issued by his Department for building, reconstructing, repairing or decorating accommodation for the staffs of regional hospital boards and other administrative sections of the National Health Service.

The aggregate value of the authorisations or approvals issued by my Department up to the end of 1951 for building works for the provision or adaptation of office accommodation for regional hospital boards, boards of governors, hospital management committees, executive councils, joint pricing committees and the Dental Estimates Board is about £483,000. This includes the value of repairs and redecorations except in the case of the hospital authorities, who do not require authorisation for such work. The value of certain works carried out by the Ministry of Works for hospital authorities at the outset of the Service is not available and so is not included.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the decision to charge the first £1's worth of dental treatment to the patient will result in a decrease of preventive work; and if he will, therefore, withdraw his proposed charge.

I will, with permission, answer this and Question No. 29 together.

May I have an answer to the Questions separately, Sir? They are not the same.

I think the hon. Lady should wait to hear the answer.

On a point of order. May I have your guidance, Mr. Speaker? I appreciate that the answers may be the same, but I believe that the Minister has to seek permission to answer Questions together and, if I have your permission to refuse that permission, may I have the Questions answered separately?

I have known that done. I will watch the point. If the hon. Lady will listen to the answer and desires to ask a supplementary question for further elucidation I will see that she catches my eye.

I am sorry to insist, Sir, but with great respect, do I understand from your ruling that you will allow me two supplementary questions if the questions on the Order Paper are answered together? Otherwise, can I please have the Questions answered separately?

Can the Minister answer these Questions separately?

I would refer the hon. Lady to the debate on the financial and economic situation on 31st January, when I endeavoured to explain the reasons which make these and other measures necessary.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that attitude underlines the difference between the two sides of the House—that this side is anxious to prevent ill-health and that the other side has not yet got as far as that? Second, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that instead of being known as a party of conservation they will be known as a party of decay, as a result of this?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the unnecessary suffering which will be inflicted on dental patients by his proposal that emergency treatment for the relief of pain should be charged for; and, as this cost is limited to 7s. 6d., if he will make arrangements for it to be free.

I would refer the hon. Lady to the debate on the financial and economic situation on 31st January, when I endeavoured to explain the reasons which make these and other measures necessary.

Has the right hon. Gentleman—as I may not refer him to it—seen the reports in the Press today that he is contemplating a reduction in these charges as a result of pressure which has been brought by his own side of the House, and is there any truth in these statements?

It is not in order to base questions on newspaper comments.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware (1) of the concern caused by the decision of the South-West Metropolitan Regional Board controlling over 300 hospitals to spend no more than 21s. a week on feeding each patient, at a time of rising prices, and, in view of this, if he will take steps to have this amount increased;

I am informed that the Board have asked management committees, in preparing their estimates for the next financial year, to regard as maxima for their groups certain figures of expenditure on provisions based on averages in the region. In addition they have warned committees to take account of possible price rises in framing their estimates. This is an interim measure pending a further detailed investigation into the costs of provisions and, on the information at present available, I see no reason to intervene.

Is the right hon. hon. Gentleman not aware that several catering officers in London hospitals say that it is impossible to do the job properly at a cost of 21s., and can we have the assurance that we are not going to return to the days when patients depended upon their visitors for essential foods? Further, would the right hon. Gentleman inform the Regional Board that to be a mental patient does not imply that one has not a healthy appetite?

I am quite sure that the regional boards are cognisant of that fact; but the position will be reviewed by the Board when the results of detailed investigations are known.

I asked for an assurance that there would be no returning to the days when patients depended for essential food on their visitors. Can I have that assurance?

There is no intention of doing any such thing.

asked the Minister of Health upon what grounds the Estimates Board are authorised to refuse payments to dentists for intra-oral X-rays up to 12s. 6d., and for bite-wing films, as an aid to diagnosis.

The Dental Estimate Board, under statutory powers, may disapprove items of treatment considered by the Board not necessary to secure dental fitness. Any dentist dissatisfied with the Board's decision has a statutory right of appeal.

Is the Minister not aware that the regulations of his Department provide for the payment, without the approval of prior authority, for these fees up to 12s. 6d., and that great dissatisfaction has been caused to dentists by the continued refusal of the Estimates Board to meet this approved payment?

As I said, any dentist who is dissatisfied has the right of appeal.

asked the Minister of Health how many specialised clinics for the treatment of Parkinson's disease are at present available in England and Wales; and what further facilities he proposes for the treatment of this disease.

Specialist advice is available at neurological clinics throughout England and Wales, and in 1950 there were 117 such clinic sessions held weekly. Neurological services are being improved as a part of the general development of the specialist services.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware, however, that there do not seem to be sufficient facilities available for the number of people who suffer from this disease and who require in-patient treatment and rehabilitation techniques? Would he consider setting up clinics for full treatment, apart from those on a regional basis attached to the teaching hospitals?

I should like to see that question on the paper.

asked the Minister of Health how many persons in the United Kingdom suffering from tuberculosis are now waiting to enter sanatoria.

Provisional figures show that the number in England and Wales at 31st December, 1951, was about 8,200.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how this compares with the figures for a year ago?

I am glad to say it is a considerable improvement. A year ago the corresponding number was about 10,000.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that the Government's restriction of capital development will not apply to hospital development and thereby restrict still further the accommodation available for tuberculosis cases?

I could not go into detail, in reply to this Question, as to what may be the result of the capital investment programme.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider increasing the number of patients sent to Switzerland in view of the accommodation available there and the low cost at which it is made available?

That is another question. I should like to answer it if it is put on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will discontinue the use of identity cards.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement about the discontinuation of identity cards.

Yes, Sir. Her Majesty's Government have decided that it is no longer necessary to require the public to possess and produce an identity card, or to notify change of address for National Registration purposes though the numbers will continue to be used in connection with the National Health Service. I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT more details of this decision—as they are a little long—and people should await those details before disposing of their cards.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an estimate of the economies likely to be gained as a result of the discontinuance of identity cards?

The result of this action is estimated to save, in staff, about 1,500 people and, in cost, about £500,000.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that his reply will be generally welcomed? Will he consider a refund to Mr. Willcock, who did a very considerable public service in calling attention to these cards and to the fact that they were unnecessary and degrading? Third, will the right hon. Gentleman recommend to his right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary to follow his good example and try and get rid of passports as well?

Will my right hon. Friend agree that this welcome action which he has taken could, in fact, have been taken a long time ago, with the consequent savings to which he has referred?

Certainly. That was a suggestion which was pressed upon the previous Government.

rose

Order. I have risen to my feet. I understand from the Minister's answer that a fuller statement is to be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Perhaps it would be in the interests of hon. and right hon. Members who have Questions on the Order Paper—

On a point of order. Apart entirely from the merits of the question, was there any reason why the right hon. Gentleman should make an attack on the late Government without affording my right hon. Friend an opportunity of asking a question about those allegations? May I ask, Sir, what relation there was between the merits of the question and the insinuation of the right hon. Gentleman?

Is this a point of order, Sir?

It is not strictly a point or order. The reason why I stopped the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Marquand), was that I had already risen to my feet and I did not like to give way on that occasion. I think it is to the interest of right hon. and hon. Members as a whole that we should pass on and then perhaps return to the question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to the fact that National Service advisory panels, when considering applications for the deferment of agricultural workers, do not invite the applicant to state his case in person before the panel; and whether he will consider instructing panel chairmen to do this.

I have had no previous representations on this point. The present arrangements were agreed in detail with the agricultural employers' and workers' organisations, and nothing has been brought to my notice suggesting a need for the change proposed by my hon. Friend.

While thanking my right hon. and learned Friend for his reply, may I ask whether he will consider special cases in parts of the country, such as Scotland in general and Lanarkshire in particular?

If my hon. Friend wishes to bring to my attention some special features in the constituency which he represents I shall, of course, be pleased to consider them.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that from the results flowing from the investigations made by these panels it would appear from the evidence that is coming from my constituency and elsewhere that many persons serving on them have no knowledge whatever of agriculture?

asked the Minister of Labour the special qualifications sought in selecting persons to serve as chairmen of National Service advisory panels on the deferment of agricultural workers; and how they are chosen.

Agricultural advisory panels do not have a chairman. They normally consist of two representatives from each side of the industry, who are convened by an officer of my Department. The convenor's duty is to convey the advice of the members of the panel to the National Service Deferment Board, with whom the final decision rests.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that great dissatisfaction has been expressed in my constituency, at any rate, about the working of these panels?

asked the Minister of Labour how many agricultural workers, employed on farms or market gardens employing fewer than five persons have been refused deferment from National Service between 31st October, 1951, and the latest convenient date in the United Kingdom and in Scotland; and how many deferments have been granted, in the United Kingdom and in Scotland to agricultural workers on farms and market gardens employing more than five persons.

I could not, without a disproportionate expenditure of staff time, divide these figures between farms employing more or less than five workers. In the United Kingdom, 5,810 deferments had been granted and 1,454 rejected up to 31st January. The corresponding figures for Scotland are 840 and 153.

Does not the Minister consider that the time has arrived when the whole question of the deferment of agricultural workers in Scotland should be reviewed?

The question of deferment is constantly before us, both in relation to England and Scotland. I have it under review all the time.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will consult the Service Departments with a view to formulating a scheme whereby agricultural workers can be called up for military training for certain months in the year, over a number of years, instead of for the whole of the two-year period as at present.

I do not think there are sufficient grounds for proposing a scheme of this kind, which would clearly have serious disadvantages from the point of view of the Services.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend not give further and sympathetic consideration to this matter, having in mind that he would gain real good will from the agricultural industry if he could meet their seasonal difficulties?

I am most anxious to bear anything in mind which will enable us to meet the seasonal difficulties of agriculture, which I fully appreciate, but there are very great difficulties in taking a call-up of agricultural workers and dividing it into four when we consider the work for which these men are wanted when they are called up.

In view of the great difficulty which the two-year call-up imposes on agriculture, will the Minister consider, as an alternative, accepting the enrolment of agricultural workers in the Civil Defence Service or the Home Guard, in which they would probably serve in time of war?

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the arrangements whereby fishermen and others who normally work in boats are called up by a special arrangement which suits both them and the naval service?

I am aware of that. In answer to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. J. Grimond), I would point out that it is very difficult to make special arrangements for a particular industry. I think the House ought to be aware of the figures involved here. So far, it looks as if for the first year not more than 10,000 men will be called up from agriculture out of a total working force, including working farmers, of something like 900,000.

asked the Minister of Labour what are the main types of labour in which shortages have developed in the defence production programme; and in what numbers.

The main types of workers at present in short supply for the defence programme are skilled men in the principal engineering occupations. The number of unfilled vacancies in these occupations rose from about 21,500 in October, 1950, to 35,000 in December, 1951. Most of these vacancies are on defence or other essential production. In a few areas there is also an acute shortage of unskilled workers, particularly for certain Royal Ordnance factories.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say to what extent he expects to be able to fill these vacancies? Since the majority are for skilled men does he expect to be able to absorb skilled men who are now redundant and intend to train more men for skilled jobs?

I hope certainly to be able to absorb more skilled men than are available and I have every intention of doing everything I can to encourage the training to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

Is it not the case that the civilian programme has been cut much faster than defence orders have been given? Do not these figures refer to theoretical vacancies whereas there is real unemployment?

Undoubtedly as these cuts have emerged they have created difficulties in some places, and I am constantly watching both the industries which are engaged on the defence programme and others to try to see that all available workers are properly employed in the national interest.

But the unemployment is there; the right hon. and learned Gentleman cannot deny that.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to ensure employment in defence and other industries of the growing number of engineers in the borough of Acton becoming redundant and unemployed directly and indirectly through the shortage of steel supplies.

There are a large number of outstanding vacancies in North-West London for skilled and unskilled men in the engineering industry. Workers in the borough of Acton who may be discharged from their present employment should, if they register at the employment exchange, have little difficulty in obtaining suitable alternative work.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that many of the factories in which redundancy of skilled engineers arises are capable of being converted to defence production, as they were during the war, but that apparently no action is being taken by any Government Department to effect that conversion? Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman give an assurance that he is in direct contact with other Government Departments on this question, so that those factories where redundancy exists may be converted to defence production?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the important thing is whether there is a substantial number of engineering workers out of work in the area to which the Question relates. I have made inquiries and on 18th February there were only 18 such men, and nearly all of them have been submitted for fresh employment.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that although the engineering unions will be very happy to assist in bringing new people into the industry, they cannot very well do that if there is to be redundancy among skilled engineers at the same time?

I assure the House that where skilled engineers are available there will be no difficulty in finding them proper employment. We shall do our best, with the help of both sides of the industry, to place them where they are most useful in the common cause.

asked the Minister of Labour why Mr. F. Castellanetta was refused admission at the Woodlands Hostel, Chorley, after having been accepted as an employee at the Welch Whittle Colliery, Coppull; and why he was sent by the Chorley employment exchange to the hostel and then refused accommodation.

Mr. Castellanetta was not refused accommodation at the Woodlands Hostel. He was admitted for the night of 28th January and was then transferred to a Yorkshire colliery by the National Coal Board.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the increasing number of men employed in armament firms who are being retained at day rate wages in factories where there is no work for them to do; and what steps he has proposed to take to deal with this matter.

No, Sir. I have no evidence that under-employment is at all common in armament firms. I have written to the hon. Member about the individual case he raised with me.

I have not had a letter from the right hon. and learned Gentleman. Is he aware that it has been stated publicly, without contradiction, that, although the Avro works at Oldham are sub-contracting a great part of their Canberra work, at their factory at Failsworth they have 60 skilled sheet-metal workers kept on day wages and not allowed to be given any work to bring them full wages, that that has been the case for some time and that there have been public protests?

I am sorry that my letter has not reached the hon. Gentleman. When it does he will find that I have dealt with this case and that I have taken steps which I hope will remedy it.

asked the Minister of Labour what conclusions he has reached on the proposal made by his right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom for a committee to examine, on a broad basis, the question of the employment of elderly workers.

Yes, Sir. I am proposing to appoint a Committee whose terms of reference will be to advise and assist me in promoting the employment of older men and women. The Chairman of the Committee will be my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Labour, and the membership will cover both sides of industry, the Government Departments principally concerned, local authorities, medicine, research, social science and welfare.

While thanking my right hon. and learned Friend for his announcement, which will be widely welcomed from all sides of the House, may I ask whether the inquiry will include both wage and salary earners, and people in private employment as well as in civil and local authority employment?

I will consider that.

asked the Minister of Labour when it is proposed to appoint a Labour Attaché to the British Embassy in Madrid.

An appointment has been made to this post.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend give an assurance that the Labour Attaché will not be a member of the Labour Party, because of their dislike of Spain?

asked the Prime Minister what conditions govern the acceptance by Ministers of the Crown, in pursuance of their duties, of gifts and services from commercial undertakings.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg) yesterday.

As my Question deals with general policy and not with the specific cases brought up yesterday, is it not very desirable that there should be a complete ban on the acceptance of gifts and services by Ministers, as it is quite impossible to decide when a Minister is placed under an obligation to a private firm?

I think that it would be a great mistake to try to lay down detailed rules and regulations, which have not been found necessary in the past, by question and answer at this period of our discussions.

Could the Prime Minister say how far this decision about the Cunard Company is to be regarded as a precedent? Will it now be in order for the Scotch Whisky Association to provide free treatment for sea sickness when he goes on another visit to America? [Laughter.]

I think the laughter which the hon. Member's question has excited is the best answer to him.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Government will ensure that in all future ceremonial parades on national occasions contingents of the women's Services will be included.

In future, as in the past, contingents of the women's Services will be included in ceremonial parades on national occasions when this is appropriate.

In view of the fact that representatives of the women's Services were not in the parade on Friday last, does that mean that, in the view of the Prime Minister, that was an occasion when it was not appropriate for members of the women's Services to be on parade?

No, the arrangements for the funeral were made by the Earl Marshal, and I have felt that they were extremely good; but I agree that this question of women's contingents marching in the very long and arduous journey which had to be made is one which requires detailed consideration.

Would the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to give this his personal consideration, because I am quite sure he will agree that the exclusion of representatives of the women's Services is not conducive to good recruitment for them?

That is the rule which we have accepted—that there are exceptions.

Is the Prime Minister aware that there was some concern that this House was not represented in the procession?

May I ask the Prime Minister if it is true that the Earl Marshal's office said, in connection with this occasion, that the three Services had been consulted and that they felt it was not advisable that women should take part—

Order. The Prime Minister is not responsible for the Earl Marshal's office.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain to the House why, contrary to expectations, those Members of the House who were chosen to represent us at the funeral service of his late Majesty did not march in the procession through London? Can we take it that they were considered less physically capable of doing so than members of the Diplomatic Corps?

I am sure that precedent was followed, and I think that the way in which precedent was applied to the various complex questions which were raised was an admirable example of efficiency.

I gather that the Prime Minister is not unsympathetic to the point raised by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rowley Regis and Tipton (Mr. A. Henderson), and I think that all quarters of the House would feel happier if he would give an undertaking to give sympathetic consideration to promoting the participation of women in these functions. I am not talking necessarily about the Earl Marshal's responsibilities, but participation of the women's Services in these functions. They are part of Service life generally, and participation in them is very good for morale.

On a point of order. I am sorry to persist, Mr. Speaker, but may I ask if you are aware that I was not referring to what the Earl Marshal's office had done but to the fact that this decision was reached by the three Services? I wanted to ask the Prime Minister if he would recommend to the Service chiefs that, in future, women should take part on these occasions?

That is quite in order, but the hon. Lady did refer to the Earl Marshal's office.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the point has now been covered.

If the Earl Marshal's office consulted the Services before coming to the decision to which they did come, are not the Service Ministers responsible to this House for the information or advice which they gave to the Earl Marshal on that occasion?

I think it is a firm rule of Questions, which applies to those on the Order Paper as well as to supplementary questions, that no question can be addressed to a Minister on any matter unless he is executively responsible for the decision, and I think that questions about the advice that was given, and so on, would be out of order.

asked the Prime Minister what was the nature of the discussions he had with the Governments of the Commonwealth of Australia and the United States of America before announcing the preparations for an explosion of a British atomic weapon in Australia.

During the years 1950 and 1951 discussions proceeded on this subject between the late Government and the Governments of Australia and the United States of America. When Her Majesty's present Government assumed office at the end of October last, and learned for the first time what the position was, arrangements were made with Her Majesty's Government in Australia to carry out the test in that country.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of a statement made by the American State Department on 12th February, saying that Britain declined an American offer to make immediate use of United States bomb testing sites? Are we now going to carry out expensive experiments, involving large sums of money and material and labour, duplicating those that are now being made in the United States?

This is almost the only part we have had in these affairs—the present Government—we inherited from our predecessors a position which was very far advanced, but we undoubtedly think it better, in all the circumstances, that the discussions which had been proceeding under the late Government for having the test in Australia should be carried to a conclusion, and that is what has been arranged with the Australian Government.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that at no time was there a firm offer by the United States Government to conduct British tests in atomic bomb warfare in the United States, and that all along, although we had discussions with them, we did contemplate that, if anything were to be done, it ought to be undertaken in Australia?