asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the recent report of the Catering Wages Commission; and if he will make a statement.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the Commission's Annual Report for 1951 just published, and in particular to that part of the Report in which the Commission say that they could not legally take the course they wish to follow in recommending changes in the Wages Board machinery.

When I became aware of these difficulties, I entered into discussions with both sides of the industry to see whether, by co-operation and good will, they could themselves agree on a course to follow that would enable them to work towards a mutually acceptable system of wage regulation as it affects the hotel industry. I am glad to say that a large measure of agreement has been reached and I am about to reconstitute the Licensed Residential Establishment and Licensed Restaurant Wages Board to enable effect to be given to the proposals that have been made to me by the trade unions and the hotel associations representing the employers.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the 1951 Report also refers to the question of a separate wages board for Scotland, and has he considered that; and in view of the fact that Mr. Tom Johnston and others in Scotland have repeatedly stated that this is necessary, what action is he taking to deal with it?

That matter has been considered, and I ask my hon. and gallant Friend to wait and see what the arrangements are and whether it is necessary to proceed further in the matter.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman take care to distinguish between the large hotels in Scotland which are no different in equipment from those in England, and the small hotels in the isolated areas, which are quite unsuitable for many of the regulations which are imposed?

I have that very much in mind.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that we have been told constantly for years past to wait in connection with getting separate boards for Scotland, and that we are getting a little tired of waiting.

asked the Minister of Labour on what grounds the German actress Sonja Ziemann was granted a permit to work in this country; and whether the appropriate professional organisation was consulted before issuing the permit.

A permit for Miss Ziemann was granted on application by a film company who wished to engage her for a foreign part in a film to be made in this country. My Department was satisfied, after inquiries, that her employment was reasonable and necessary in the circumstances. The answer to the second part of the Question is in the affirmative.

Will the Minister bear in mind when issuing these permits that there are a large number of British artists out of work at present, especially in this type of acting—British naturalised actors—who could perform these roles, and does he not think it desirable that films which are assisted financially in part by the British taxpayer should give employment to British people so far as possible?

The precautions taken in this case were that the names of resident artists were considered, and they were found either unavailable or unsuitable. We did consult the British Actors Equity Association, who raised no objection.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to encourage the policy of self-inspection in factories.

I assume that the hon. Member has in mind a passage in the last published annual report of the Chief Inspector of Factories, which was addressed particularly to occupiers of the larger factories, and in which he suggested that they should develop more widely the systematic inspection of processes and plant by their supervisory staffs on a well arranged schedule. Factory inspectors, as part of their day-to-day duties, are continuously impressing this on occupiers of factories.

Is the Minister aware that the passage in question is not particularly enlightening as to the conditions and safeguards which would be used in the process of self-inspection in factories, and would he consider giving some information on what is being done and what safeguards there are that the standards are being maintained?

I would add this to the reply I made: We do, in fact, encourage self-inspection to see to the maintenance of safety standards in factories. The inspectors also encourage the formation of safety and welfare committees on which the work-people are represented.

I assume that self-inspection is looked upon, so far as his Department is concerned, as not a substitute but a supplement to the ordinary factory inspector?

The hon. Gentleman is quite right.

asked the Minister of Labour why the cost of bringing miners from Italy to this country is a charge on the taxpayer instead of on the National Coal Board.

This arrangement was made because of the paramount importance to the national economy of increasing the production of coal.

Was it not the intention of Parliament that the coal industry should be self-supporting and should not draw money from the Treasury?

The men were brought here at the expense of the Government because at that moment the national need was very great and it was thought important that it should be done. The repatriation of the men will not be at the expense of the Exchequer.

What steps are being taken to provide, suitable alternative employment for Italian miners who are not being repatriated?

That is a different question, but we are taking every possible step to secure employment for them.

Owing to the increased number of recruits for the mines and the remarkable increase in the output per manshift worked—[Horn. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—oh, yes; hon. Members should read this morning's newspapers—is it not now unnecessary to import foreign labour into 825 British mines?

asked the Minister of Labour if he will, at an early date, by regulation under the Factory Acts, make compulsory the use of technical white oil for lubricating mule spindles, in view of the fact that this oil has been found to be free from the cancer-producing agent.

I have received from the Joint Advisory Committee on Conditions of Work in the Cotton Industry recommendations concerning the use of technical white oils for lubricating mule spindles. While the statement in the last part of the Question has not yet been fully confirmed, consideration is being given to the practicability of making regulations to implement the recommendations.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend give an assurance that when the investigations are complete he will introduce the regulations at the earliest possible moment?

I shall certainly go ahead with the matter as quickly as I can. The report is still in the hands of the printer.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, following the signature of the recent agreement with the ladies' tailoring trade for two weeks' holiday with pay, several firms have given immediate notice of dismissal to their entire staff; and whether he will take steps to prevent this violation of the agreement.

I am not aware of any such agreement, but the hon. Member may have in mind recent wages regulation orders settling a new basis for holiday pay. These orders, which were made to give effect to proposals of the wages councils concerned, came into force on 23rd May. I understand that there have been some dismissals among workers affected by the orders, but such dismissals do not involve an infringement of the orders.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman regard it as an infringement of the order if firms dismissed their employees and then told them that they would be re-engaged later?

If that endeavour were attempted I am not satisfied, as at present advised, that it would succeed. In other words. I do not think that by that method firms would evade the necessity for giving effect to the order.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the advantages which short-term stay homes for mentally-defective children give to harassed parents; and whether he would be prepared to assist financially in the setting-up of such homes.

Yes, Sir. In a circular issued on 21st January last, local health authorities and hospital authorities were fully informed of the conditions under which assistance may be given in providing such accommodation in the case of family emergencies. I am sending my hon. Friend copies.

While I appreciate the merits of the circular, may I ask my right hon. Friend if he is able to go further and say that he will grant financial assistance even to private or quasi-private organisations who are prepared to run these homes if they have the capital to equip them?

The local health authorities have powers which I could aid under Section 28 of the National Health Service Act, and they also have powers to make grants in suitable circumstances to voluntary associations. These matters are covered in the circular to which I have referred.

As a large number of children coming within this category are not receiving the assistance and attention which they should have, will the right hon. Gentleman do what his hon. Friend has asked and encourage local authorities by offering them further assistance?

That was the purpose of the circular. I am delighted to do anything I can in this way to encourage local authorities to take action in the matter.

Has the right hon. Gentleman consulted the Minister of Works about this, because it takes a very long time to obtain the licences for altering premises which are required to house these children? If there could be some arrangement with the Ministry of Works to provide licences quickly for this purpose, the placing of children in the short-term homes would be expedited.

I appreciate the point which the hon. Lady makes, and I will consult my right hon. Friend.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that any sums used for this purpose must come out of the fixed amount available to these authorities? As this is perhaps one of the most urgent needs in the public health field, will my right hon. Friend consider taking some special measures?

I fully agree about the urgency of these cases, and in view of that I am prepared to look further into the matter.

asked the Minister of Health when it is proposed to introduce amending legislation in connection with the Mental Deficiency Acts.

I am not yet in a position to say.

in view of the changes in technique and the need for classification, is it not most desirable that we should have some legislation dealing with the matter within the next 12 months? Can my right hon. Friend say that such legislation will be introduced within the next 12 months?

I cannot give an undertaking that legislation will be introduced, but my Department is examining the matter very carefully, and has been doing so for some time, with a view to ascertaining what legislation is necessary.

asked the Minister of Health if, in the interests of security, he will consider the removal of Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum to one of the many deserted islands on our coast.

No, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is essential to consider the safety of the community and that it should be worth considering moving Broadmoor if it would prevent a repetition of the deplorable incident which happened a short time ago?

I come from among the most deserted islands round our coast. The difficulties involved in my hon. Friend's suggestion make it really quite impracticable. Apart from the difficulty of building, there is the difficulty of staffing which, difficult enough already, would be absolutely insuperable.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will reconsider his decision to refuse permission for the building of an old people's hostel at Kenton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, in view of the great need for further accommodation of this kind.

I regret that it is not yet possible to say when acquisition of the steel needed for this building can be authorised.

If I could provide the right hon. Gentleman with a possible alternative scheme that made a smaller call on steel, would he reconsider the matter, in view of the very important consequences upon hospital accommodation elsewhere?

I cannot possibly commit myself, but steel, of course, is a major limiting factor in this field. I should be delighted to examine any suggestion the hon. Gentleman put forward.

Do I understand from that reply that there are no other factors that would hold up approval, apart from steel, and that, if I can satisfy the right hon. Gentleman about that, we could get the matter forward?

No, Sir. I said that steel is a major factor.

asked the Minister of Health whether a decision has yet been reached about the closing of day nurseries in Kent, and particularly about the closing of the day nursery at Pelham Road, Gravesend.

I am informed that the county council has referred the matter to the health committee for further consideration, and has decided to keep the nurseries open in the meantime until at least the end of June.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the results of the inquiry into the Rees Evans cancer cure.

Yes, Sir. A committee was appointed by my predecessor in October, 1950, consisting of Sir Robert Robinson, as Chairman, Sir Ernest Rock Carling, Sir Alexander Fleming and Harold Himsworth, to consider the claims made by Mr. Rees Evans to have discovered a treatment for cancer, and to advise whether they warranted further investigation and if so the way in which any investigation should proceed. The report has now been received, and in the normal way I should have proposed to publish it; but as it contains information supplied to the committee in confidence by Mr. Rees Evans and by patients and their relatives, I cannot do so. I can, however, say that the committee have advised me that the claims made do not warrant further investigation, and I have accepted that advice; and I will, with permission, circulate a fuller statement of the committee's conclusions in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In view of the fact that this investigation and inquiry did not disclose either the cause or the cure of this scourge, which is now claiming the largest number of victims of any single factor of mortality in this country, which has increased during the whole of the 50 years and every year, both in percentage and numbers during that period, and which is responsible in this country for the largest percentage of deaths of any country of the world, does not the Minister think the time is ripe for a full and independent inquiry into the cause of cancer?

The right hon. Member for Ebbw Vale appointed this committee, as I understand it, to report whether there was anything to investigate. He appointed a committee that is absolutely unequalled in its standing. That committee has advised me in the sense that I have told the House, and I really think there is nothing I can add to what I have said.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there was something peculiarly offensive and hurtful to the emotions of large numbers of people in giving such publicity to these claims before they had been properly investigated, and that all that has been done could have been done by sending a letter to the Ministry of Health without arousing the hopes unnecessarily of so many sick people?

Yes, I entirely agree with every word the right hon. Gentleman has said.

Is it not a fact that today there is a higher proportion of cures of cancer than at any time in the history of this country?

Could I ask if this committee was not entirely a medical committee, and in view of the fact that this is possibly an industrial problem as well, due to modern civilisation and modern development, there is a case for investigation along other lines? Would he not consider such investigation desirable?

I have read the names of the committee to the House. I will read them again—Sir Robert Robinson, Sir Ernest Rock Carling, Sir Alexander Fleming and Sir Harold Himsworth. One could not conceivably set up another committee with anything like that prestige.

Is not the hon. Member doing a great disservice now in attempting to suggest that those claims have not been properly examined? It will merely give rise to a large number of people believing that further investigation is necessary when, as a matter of fact, the claims in the first instance were completely without foundation.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware, and whether it is on his instructions, that doctors are receiving communications from executive councils proposing surcharges in cases where cod liver oil and malt extract have been prescribed in the treatment of tuberculosis; whether he is aware that this preparation has for a long time been part of the recognised treatment in this disease, and is referred to as such in the report of the Cohen Committee; and whether he will cease penalising doctors who prescribe this preparation for their tuberculous patients.

I think there may be some misapprehension on this subject, on which I have issued no instructions. The Definition of Drugs Sub-Committee advised that, when cod liver oil and malt is used for the treatment of tuberculosis, it should be regarded as a drug. Their report also said that a doctor must be prepared to justify the ordering of the preparation as requisite for the treatment of his patient. I am proposing again to bring the report to the attention of executive councils and general practitioners.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ask executive councils to withdraw the instructions which they have given that doctors who prescribe this preparation for their patients will be forced to go to tribunals to justify their action, as is taking place now?

I am very grateful to the hon. Member for putting down this Question. It may be true that certain executive councils have misinterpreted what the Cohen Committee meant. The publicity given to this question and the fact that I am drawing the matter again to the attention of executive councils should cover the point which the hon. Member has in mind.

asked the Minister of Health when bone conduction attachments will be made for Medresco hearing aids.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made with putting the bone-conduction hearing aid into mass production.

I cannot yet add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Hale), on 15th May.

Is the Minister aware that an apparatus very similar to the Medresco hearing aid is being manufactured now with an attachment which enables bone conduction to be effective, and is the Minister not aware that it would be very simple to make a similar attachment to the Medresco apparatus?

I will look into that particular point, but the hon. Member will realise that these large-scale trials, under the auspices primarily of the Medical Research Council, have been going on for some time, and are within a matter of weeks of completion. It is expected that the results will be issued by the end of July and after that we will, I hope, be able to go ahead with the production of this aid.

Is the Minister not aware that the delay in the provision of this aid is becoming nothing less than scandalous? This form of aid has been on the market for nearly two years, and a tremendous mass of knowledge as well as clinical experience from a very wide range has been acquired? Is it not time that these were available to the public?

I have said that the Medical Research Council will be concluding their experiments by the end of July, and the hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Edward Evans), who has very expert knowledge in this field, will know that when large-scale experimental trials of this nature are being carried out speed is not the only consideration. We must have complete thoroughness as well. This matter is in the hands of the most responsible people in this country, and I feel confident that they will give us the results as quickly as they can.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give us an approximate estimate of the number of patients who are awaiting benefit from the bone conduction apparatus?

Yes, almost exactly 4,000.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that field experiments in this matter were started as far back as 1950, and does it not seem that they are taking a long time to come to a conclusion about it?

I have no personal knowledge of what the right hon. Gentleman calls field experiments, but I assume that the large-scale clinical tests now in progress would have followed on field trials. The clinical tests were started in October last and are to be finished towards the end of July.

asked the Minister of Health how many instances of abuse in prescribing surgical abdominal supports have been brought to his notice: and if he will give the details of the cases.

No detailed records are available, but experience has shown that many supports obtained through the hospital service have in the past differed little if at all from ordinary corsets.

Will the Minister ask his right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal if he will withdraw the serious accusation which he made on 27th March this year when he suggested that there have been a good many cases of alleged abuse of prescribing what was not much more than reinforced corsets?

I am delighted to see that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Marquand) is in his place during this supplementary. The hon. Member may be interested to hear a few lines from a circular issued by the Ministry of Health on 21st March, 1951. It is headed "Prescription of unnecessary appliances," and reads as follows:

"This occurs particularly in connection with abdominal supports. Many of these ordered through hospitals differ little, if at all from corsets … and are rather garments than medical appliances. … An appliance should not he ordered for an importunate patient if other suitable treatment would render it unnecessary."

The hon. Member will be happy to know that he has maintained virginal and untarnished his record of throwing charges at the Leader of the House and stabbing his right hon. Friend in the back.

Is the right hon. Gentleman now telling us that the surgeons responsible for prescribing these belts have virtually ignored the instructions sent to them in March, 1951?

The right hon. Gentleman is not doing himself justice. These appliances are ordered in conjunction with the Ministry of Pensions. The right hon. Gentleman has an extraordinarily consistent record in that when he was Minister of Pensions he did not know that the Ministry were collecting all this information when he was Minister of Health he did not know that he had issued this circular: and when in opposition he abuses my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House for instructions which he himself issued.

The right hon. Gentleman must not try to escape from the Question. He is the Minister now, and the House will want to know how it is possible, after the possibility of these abuses was drawn to the attention of the hospital authorities as long ago as March, 1950, that he can now say that the abuses still exist and he has to make charges to prevent them. That is the question I am addressing to him.

Certainly the abuses that the right hon. Gentleman referred to exist because he sent a circular out about them. As a result of the action, for which he was responsible, the abuses have been considerably reduced. The only thing that surprises some of us is that he did not even know that he issued those instructions.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will permit National Health Service patients to be issued free of charge with those drugs and medicines contained in the revised National Formulary, which will replace the 1949 edition on 1st June.

No, Sir.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the policy suggested in this Question would remove the danger of needy cases failing to apply for medical treatment, and that such a policy would be far preferable to that which we now see laid down in his Regulations?

The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that there are many obstacles apart from the Act which recently received the approval of Parliament on account of which such a proposal could not possibly be put forward. He knows that the National Formulary is not complete, that there are a number of valuable drugs not in it, and that it is undesirable to try to suggest to doctors the limiting of their prescribing in any way. Then there is also the point—and I do not expect the hon. Gentleman's agreement in this—that it would almost entirely nullify the effect of the 1s. prescription charge.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that, in fact, the power of doctors is very prescribed? They are required to prescribe from the National Formulary if there is an adequate drug in that Formulary as against proprietary medicines? Would it not be unfortunate if the right hon. Gentleman gave the impression that the doctors can go outside the Formulary if there are suitable drugs in it?

I did not give that impression, or at least I did not mean to, but there is no limitation, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, on the right of a doctor to prescribe.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not know that he is wrong in this matter and that there is a limitation? If he is not aware of that limitation he ought to be, because he may be called upon to discipline doctors who prescribe outside the Formulary if adequate drugs exist in it?

Yes, but the point I was making was that the National Formulary, even the new one, is not complete.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made towards arriving at a policy for a more equitable distribution of general medical practitioners' pay; and whether the forthcoming new scheme will be submitted to Parliament for approval.

The working party set up to agree a new method of distribution has completed its report, and I am arranging for copies to be available in the Vote Office on Thursday, 5th June. Any necessary amending Regulations will be laid before Parliament in the ordinary way.

May I ask the Minister if he is going to let us have the report of the working party in the form of a White Paper, and whether it is a fact that the payment of the additional £40 million to general medical practitioners, which is approximately the amount of the Danckwerts Award, is conditional upon there being a better policy for the distribution of pay? Can he, therefore, give us an assurance that the new proposed policy will be discussed in this House and that hon. and right hon. Gentlemen will have an opportunity of deciding whether it is satisfactory, before we are asked to approve of a large Supplementary Estimate?

Disentangling the three questions from that supplementary: First of all, the report which will be available in the Vote Office is the report itself of the working party. Secondly, it is true that what is called the Danckwerts Award is bound up with and indistinguishable from better distribution arrangements made by this working party. On the question of time to debate it, there are opportunities available to the Opposition, but that is entirely a matter for my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House.

Since the re-distribution of the total pool is one of the major tasks on which the working party was engaged, will the right hon. Gentleman publish with this report the evidence which he has of the distribution of doctors' payments at the time when the working party began its report or at the time when the Danckwerts investigation started so that we can compare the situation that existed before with what it will be under the recommendations of the working party?

I will consider that suggestion, but, as a matter of fact, that report was only agreed by the working party last night, and I would rather not go into more detail about it at the moment.

asked the Minister of Health why he has not yet replied to the letter from the hon. Member for Hammersmith, South, sent to him on 9th April, regarding the case of Mr. A. Warren and his treatment at the casualty department of the West London Hospital.

I understand that my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary has discussed this matter with the hon. Member, and has written to him again after making further inquiries.

Is not the Minister aware that I first raised this question with his Department as early as February this year, and that since that date I have received all kinds of assurances from his hon. Friend, followed by letters containing all kinds of evasions and prevarications—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—and that I am somewhat tired of the attitude of his Department in this matter, which smells more than a little?

I have looked into this case myself. All I can say in answer to that rather offensive supplementary is that I entirely repudiate everything contained in it.

Since the Minister has not looked into this question how can he know whether the supplementary is offensive or is based on facts? May I ask the Minister, before he makes offensive remarks, that he will look into the question and see whether in the end he would not agree with me?

I have done so, and that is why I consider the supplementary question inaccurate.

asked the Minister of Health why national registration numbers are still required for the purpose of obtaining treatment under the National Health Service Acts.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my predecessor on 21st February to the hon. Members for Doncaster (Mr. Barber) and Solihull (Mr. M. Lindsay).

Is it not clear that most people have thrown away their identity cards and their national registration numbers as well, and that a growing number of people are not going to continue the national registration service on a voluntary basis for the sake of the Minister of Health and that the administration of the National Health Service is being thrown into utter confusion by the attempt to preserve something which the Government have pretended to discard?

The last part of the hon. and gallant Gentleman's question is very much exaggerated, as I suspect he knows. Of course, it is true, and it was always recognised as such, that the abolition of the identity card would bring considerable difficulty to the National Health Service. I prefer those administrative difficulties to having identity cards.

What is the position of those who have come within the National Health Service scheme since the abolition of identity cards? Presumably they will have no number at all.

I should like to have notice of that question.

Is this not another instance of the Government rushing into action to appease their back bench members without considering the implications'?

That is a matter of opinion.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many patients are required to pay for treatment because they cannot produce their national registration number and are, therefore, being penalised without reason? Is that not one of the reasons for the present state of affairs?

I should be very glad to look into any case of that kind.

Is it not a fact that before the war we ran a national health insurance system without any numbers?

Are not people entitled to treatment under the National Health Service whether they know their national registration numbers or not?

What steps is the right hon. Gentleman taking to remove the ignorance among his own hon. Friends about the new National Health Service?

asked the Minister of Health what changes he proposes to make in the functions and responsibilities of regional hospital boards and hospital management committees.

I do not propose to make any changes at present.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the recommendations in the Report of the Select Committee on Estimates? Is he now saying that he proposes to take no notice of them?

No, Sir. The 11th Report of the Select Committee on Estimates has already been acted upon. The power to approve hospital management committee estimates and to permit transfers between subheads has already been restored to regional boards as a result of the Report.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the arrangement as it now exists?

I should not say that I am fully satisfied. I am satisfied that the point made by the Select Committee has been met, but this is, of course, one of the biggest problems in the National Health Service, and I am looking at it all the time.

asked the Minister of Health how far the hospital service is now under-staffed; and to what extent the service is restricted on this account.

On 31st December, 1951, the number of beds unoccupied through lack of staff was 32,668, or about one-fifteenth of the total number of beds. I have no figures for the total number of staff of all types which would be required to bring these beds into use.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the shortage is more acute in mental and tuberculosis hospitals than in general hospitals?

I think it is. There is a certain wastage amongst nurses, which, for reasons which are well known, is particularly severe in the hospitals and institutions to which the hon. Member referred.

Is the right hon. Gentleman taking any action to make good the deficiency?

Yes. Sir. This is a most important problem, and, as a matter of fact, the figures have been all the time, as I am sure the hon. Member knows. For example, the number of beds unoccupied in December, 1949, was about 46,000; in December, 1950, just under 40,000; and on 31st December, 1951, it was under 33,000. That is a very steady improvement and I am doing everything I can to maintain it.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will instigate an inquiry into the circumstances attending the removal of Dr. Donald McIntosh Johnson to the Warneford Hospital, Oxford on 16th October, 1950.

A full inquiry has already been made, the results of which have been communicated in detail to my hon. Friend. I cannot agree that any further inquiry is necessary.

Is the Minister satisfied that there were no conditions other than those alleged prevailing, at the time of Dr. Johnson's detention?

This is a very difficult and unhappy case into which I have looked. I am satisfied that Dr. Johnson was properly dealt with under the appropriate Act when he was removed to the Warneford Hospital in October. 1950.

asked the Minister of Education if she will advise local education authorities that their university teacher's training and technical college awards should be made on the scale to be laid down for State and other awards made by her Department.

As the hon. Member already knows, I shall shortly be announcing revised rates of maintenance for university students for whom my Department is directly responsible. I shall at the same time recommend these to local education authorities to be used so far as appropriate for university students to whom they make awards. There are no corresponding rates which I can recommend to local education authorities for students at technical colleges, though there are many cases in which the university rate may be appropriate. Local education authorities do not normally make awards for the maintenance of students at teacher training colleges.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask that she will be sure, when sending out recommendations, to draw the attention of those authorities to the recommendations of her predecessor as set out in Circular A.332? Would she also direct the attention of those authorities to the desirability of the local education authority awards being of the same standard as those of her Department, and can she yet give us any indication as to when the new figures she referred to will be available?

I cannot say at this moment. I hope very shortly. As I have said in the answer, we shall certainly draw the attention of the local authorities to the figures, but I should not like in any way to direct the local authorities, who have a right to make up their own minds, though I would advise and give them these examples.

I do not want to press the Minister unduly, but does she not realise that if she carefully considers the amounts necessary to maintain a student at a university under another form of award, another student at the same university equally needs that amount of money? Surely that is a fact she could well draw to the attention of local authorities.

As the hon. Member has realised those facts, perhaps the local authorities will realise them, too.

Is the increased award to take effect in the next academic year?

Yes, I think so.

asked the Minister of Education what decisions she has now reached in connection with the closure of nursery schools in Somerset.

I have asked the authority to give further consideration to their proposal.

Do I understand from the reply of the Minister that she is in entire disagreement with their proposal to close down so many of these nursery schools?

It is for the local authority to decide. I feel that we must leave these decisions, which are the responsibility of the local authority, to them. I have asked the local authority to give further consideration to the proposal.

Is the Minister satisfied that where local authorities are running mad as a result of the circular she sent out, she should stand on one side and see the interests of the children suffer?

No, I certainly would not stand aside if I thought the local authorities were running mad. Even if local authorities in all parts of this country are perhaps not doing all we would like, I cannot yet agree with the hon. Gentleman that the) are running. mad.

Would my right hon. Friend make it quite clear to the local authority concerned in this matter that it is highly desirable to remove this uncertainty, and to do so as a matter of prime urgency, because the matter has been an open question for at least two months now?

Yes, I quite agree. I hope that the local authority, having given it further consideration, will make up their mind.

asked the Minister of Education whether she can give an estimate of the present shortage of science teachers in this country; and, in view of the accumulative bad consequences of this shortage in maintaining and developing high standards of technology in all branches of industry, what remedial action it is proposed to take in the near future.

I cannot usefully add to the reply I gave on 21st February last to my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, North (Mr. C. I. Orr-Ewing).

But has the right hon. Lady not yet had an opportunity of reading the Fifth Annual Report of the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy? Will she direct her attention to the serious state of affairs displayed by the report, particularly with regard to the recommendation that a considerable increase in the rate of recruitment for teachers—roughly from between 800 and 900 to 1,200–1,300 a year—is necessary, and what does she propose to do about it?

If the hon. Gentleman will look at my reply of 21st February, he will see what I propose to do about it.

asked the Minister of Education what increases in places in schools for deaf children have been provided since 1945; and how many deaf children are still awaiting school accommodation.

The number of deaf and partially deaf children in special schools has increased from 3,461 in January, 1946, the first post-war year for which figures are available, to 4,749 in January, 1952. In December, 1951, 429 deaf and 541 partially deaf children were known to local education authorities to be waiting for admission to special schools.

Is the Minister satisfied that a proportionately large number of deaf and partially deaf children are without any form of technical education, and is she further aware that it is absolutely essential for these children, if they are to do anything in the world, to get into special schools for special training as early as possible? Will she try to stimulate the authorities, either in combination or not, to provide the necessary accommodation?

Yes, I am continuing to give a high priority to special school provision for deaf and partially deaf children in the educational building programme.

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that her proposal to centralise a number of educational charities now operating throughout the county of Hereford has aroused a strong volume of protest; and if she will reconsider this proposal which will divert money from the original wishes of the benefactors.

The period of publication of the draft scheme in question expired on 26th May and objections have been received from the trustees of 17 of the 29 educational charities included in it and from the Hereford Rural District Council and the Leominster and Wigmore Rural District Council. I will naturally consider carefully all the objections before deciding my future course.

When considering this matter, will my right hon. Friend not realise that the policy of centralisation is against the policy of the Conservative Party, and that the effect of centralisation may well mean setting up an administration that will swallow a great deal of the available income from these charities?

I will certainly bear all those points in mind.

May I ask the right hon. Lady whether it is her intention to centralise various educational charities in all counties or whether this is an exceptional case?

I have already given a list of counties in which plans are being prepared under the Act that was passed.

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware that the teaching staffs of certain schools in the county of Somerset are to be reduced following consultation between the local education authority and Her Majesty's Inspectors; and under what authority do Her Majesty's Inspectorate assist local education authorities to increase the size of classes.

I am aware that the Somerset authority have decided to increase their pupil teacher ratio, which at present is low compared with the national average. I understand that this proposal was discussed informally by officers of the authority with H.M. Inspectors, but H.M. Inspectors were in no way responsible for the authority's decision, which does not in any case require my approval.

Is the Minister aware that this authority has sent out letters to Governors of schools in which they say that they are taking this action, which means larger classes in Somerset, on the advice of Her Majesty's Inspectors, and would she frown upon Her Majesty's Inspectors undertaking that sort of work?

It is quite right if authorities want to consult Her Majesty's Inspectors, because, after all, one of the objects in having them is that they may consult and talk over the difficulties; but the responsibility is the responsibility of the local authority in coming to a decision after they have requested advice or suggestions from Her Majesty's Inspectors.