asked the Minister of Health whether it is still necessary under his regulations, since the abolition of identity cards, for medical practitioners to ascertain the identity numbers of patients applying for treatment as temporary residents.

Yes, Sir, and I would refer the hon. Member to the statement made by my predecessor on 21st February.

If the Minister insists upon doctors inserting identity numbers upon National Health Service forms is not that imposing an additional administrative difficulty upon medical practitioners? Will the right hon. Gentleman state whether his predecessor discussed this obvious difficulty with representatives of the medical profession before, or immediately after, the abolition of identity cards?

I cannot agree that the difficulties are as serious as the hon. Gentleman suggests. It would, of course, be normal for a doctor in urgent cases to accept the patients, because it might be that inquiries, which are not a matter for the doctor but for the executive council, would take some time.

Is it not a fact that despite the abolition of identity cards the elaborate administrative structure behind the identity card system is still having to be maintained?

No, Sir.

Does this not mean that the recent gesture of the Government in saying that identity cards were unnecessary, in order to set the people free, is just as "phoney" as the rest of their programme?

The answer again is "No, Sir." It was made clear by my predecessor that these numbers would be retained for the National Health Service Act.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider amending the charge for prescriptions so that 1s. only is charged for a set of prescriptions needed for one patient and not for each prescription form as at present, since such a set of prescriptions written out by a doctor may cover more than one form and more than 1s. is then payable.

No, Sir. I do not think this would be practicable.

Does the Minister know that of cases where one prescription written by a doctor whose handwriting is not very clear is contained on two forms, with the result that the patient has to pay 2s. for one prescription? Surely the right hon. Gentleman will not make this matter purely one of calligraphy. Would he not reconsider his decision?

I shall certainly not make it a matter of calligraphy, but the suggestion of the hon. Member would put a considerable burden upon chemists, not only in deciphering the handwriting of doctors but in the sorting of prescriptions. However, it is a matter in which I shall continually watch the trend as it becomes clear after the effect of these charges is known.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to advise doctors to put as many prescriptions as possible on one form and to counteract the suggestion from chemists that prescriptions should be limited to two per form.

Doctors are already aware of their rights and obligations in this connection.

Is the Minister aware that when the scheme was free, under the previous Government, chemists encouraged doctors not to put two prescriptions on a form because of the notorious illegibility of doctors' handwriting? As this is now resulting in people going to chemists with sheafs of prescription forms, each bearing two prescriptions, will he ask doctors to cease the practice?

Too many doctors are present for me to comment on their handwriting. In view of the charges there is obviously no interest in chemists suggesting that prescriptions should be limited. As far as I am aware, chemists have not made any such suggestion. As regards the doctors, the advice is contained in the ordinary official handbook for medical practitioners.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent pharmacists will be liable themselves to bear the financial loss under his regulations by exercising their discretion in respect of the shilling charge for prescriptions in those cases where the patient has no money available and the need for medicine is urgent.

A small allowance will be made to chemists to cover such rare cases.

Are we to understand from the statement of the Minister that chemists have his permission to give medicines free of charge in certain cases?

No, it is not anything as formal as that. I have no intention of saying that if the need is desperately urgent and if the person is very genuinely without money, that that person shall be charged. I will not say that. But because those sort of circumstances can arise, we are making a small adjustment in chemists' remuneration—it has been agreed with them—which, I believe, will cover this matter.

asked the Minister of Health what quantitative limitation has been placed on doctors' prescriptions.

None, Sir. But a doctor's prescribing may be challenged if it appears that the quantities ordered are in excess of what was reasonably necessary for the proper treatment of his patients.

Is the Minister aware that a great deal of disquiet is felt because many National Health Service patients are finding that, whereas under the old, free Service one prescription was very often sufficient to complete treatment, sometimes they have to get two or three, or even four? I have seen a jar in which there was a little ointment in the bottom, whereas in the past the jar was filled.

I very rarely get complaints that too little is prescribed; I am much more used to hearing that too much has been prescribed.

Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the problem of bulk prescribing, which in certain cases has been agreed to by local executive councils, and will he continue the permission that bulk prescriptions for certain institutions shall be allowed?

That is a different question from the one on the Order Paper.

Where a doctor has over-prescribed, are there powers to surcharge him?

Yes, in the last resort. There is a pricing investigation unit at the headquarters of my Ministry which carries out these investigations. But the vast majority are settled amicably by discussion between my regional medical officers and the doctors concerned

asked the Minister of Health what arrangements he has made for old-age and other pensioners, who do not receive supplementary assistance grants from the Assistance Board to be repaid the payments they have had to make to secure prescriptions from chemists, and as out-patients in hospitals.

Persons whose resources, by National Assistance standards, are insufficient to enable them to meet the charges may apply to the local office of the National Assistance Board for a refund.

Is the Minister aware that old-age and other pensioners cannot afford the prescription charge because their pensions are hardly sufficient to meet the cost of living? Is it not possible that a very large number of these old people will not be able to afford the charge and will neglect going to the doctor, which may very well mean that they will die sooner and the Government will not have to pay their pensions?

That is an argument more on the merits of the recently passed Act. I am content to leave the matter with the National Assistance Board who will view with extreme sympathy all the cases to which the hon. Gentleman refers.

Will the Minister look at this aspect? Old-age pensioners are not in a position to pay the 1s. No machinery is available to them except to go to the National Assistance Board, where difficulties arise. The Board has no instructions about meeting their needs unless they are chargeable to the Board through supplementary assistance.

I do not accept that. It does not follow that an old-age pensioner is without means because he is an old-age pensioner. If he is in difficulty in this matter the Assistance Board is open to him.

Has my right hon. Friend reports of many instances of this kind of thing?

I have no such statistical evidence.

Surely it is not beyond the right hon. Gentleman's Department to devise a scheme whereby chemists could issue prescriptions by means of a distinctively coloured form for people who are in receipt of National Assistance benefit and the doctor could claim direct from the Assistance Board, thus obviating the necessity for the old-age pensioner to spend 1s. which has to be refunded to him at some time in the future.

There is some confusion of thought about this. Old-age pensioners do not automatically get a refund; only those who are dependent upon National Assistance.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a number of old-age pensioners cannot claim supplementary assistance because they are borderline cases and that, in the light of what has happened since this procedure became law, it is the borderline cases who are finding it difficult to pay the 1s. for the prescription because they do not receive National Assistance? Can his Department make some arrangement to help these borderline cases get the medicine which is so essential to them?

I am not in the least unsympathetic, but if borderline cases are put over the border because of the weight of these charges National Assistance then becomes available to them. Each case will be considered by the Board.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is not generally known to people that this additional assistance is available? Will he kindly see that sufficient publicity is given to this so that people who really require additional assistance know what to do to obtain it?

If I remember rightly, my hon. Friend has a question on the Order Paper on that identical point.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that every time an old-age pensioner has to go to the National Assistance Board and ask for relief to the extent of 1s. to pay for a subscription the administrative costs will more than absorb the 1s.?

That is by no means the only sort of charge which can be made on a prescription form; there are, for example, charges for elastic hosiery going up to 10s.

asked the Minister of Health what steps have been taken to ensure that the financial assistance available in cases of hardship for charges under the National Health Service is made known to the general public.

Posters containing this information have been supplied for exhibition in all chemists' shops and doctors' and dentists' waiting rooms. Information as to the procedure to be followed has been supplied to all dispensing doctors, dentists and chemists so that they may advise anyone in need. Similar action has been taken in hospital outpatient departments

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Press publicity was extremely bad, and may I ask him whether this information in chemists' shops covers people who are not exempt under the terms of the Act, that is to say, people outside the exempt categories who are entitled, if there is hardship, to apply to the National Assistance Board? That is the most important point of all.

It cannot be stated too clearly that so far as the chemist's shop is concerned there are no exemptions at the time of payment. It is made clear in the posters and other literature that certain exempt classes have an automatic right to a refund, and that the others, if they can prove hardship, also have a claim on the Assistance Board.

The Minister said, in answer to an earlier question on this point, that he had no statistical information. Would he be good enough, at an early date, to ask the Assistance Board to tell him how many applications have been received and what money has been paid so that we may have that information before we next debate this subject?

Yes, Sir.

Would the Minister consider exhibiting these posters in National Insurance offices?

Yes, I will certainly look into that.

asked the Minister of Health what additional staff have been recruited to the Pricing Bureaux during the last six months; and what further staff will be required to deal with the extra work imposed by the prescription levy.

The net increase in staff in the last six months is 36. It is not clear that any extra staff will be required by reason of the charge for prescriptions.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is the view of the National Pharmaceutical Union that extra staff will be needed for this purpose because they, and many others, believe that the new system which is required for these charges will need a great deal more checking than is now necessary?

It is true that the charges involve an extra process for the Pricing Bureaux, but there are other considerations. For example, we do not yet know what effect the 1s. charge will have upon the volume of prescriptions.

asked the Minister of Health what reduction there has been during the last six months in the time taken to complete payments to chemists for prescriptions under the National Health Service.

The average time has remained unchanged.

1s the right hon. Gentleman not very disappointed at this in view of the extra small but real recruitment he has mentioned, and particularly in view of the severe strictures that his party made upon my right hon. Friend on the delay in settling prescriptions of chemists? What further action does he propose to take?

I am not the least bit satisfied with the present position which, as the hon. Member admits, has been largely inherited. It is quite true that the average time has remained unchanged, but there are two other factors. A great number of extra prescriptions are being dealt with and a larger volume of work is being carried through in the same time; and, therefore, the efficiency of the Bureaux has been increasing relatively all the time.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Bureaux have yet reached the stage where within a month they are able to price a month's prescriptions?

Yes, that is an important point. That point has now been reached, and although we are still many months behind, we are pricing a month's prescriptions in a little under four weeks.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has had any further negotiations with the chemists to try to get rid of the backlog of prescriptions, in accordance with the arrangements started when my right hon. Friend was in office?

There were certain negotiations going on which I hope to take up as soon as it is reasonably clear at what level the demand and the work in the Pricing Bureaux will settle when the prescription charge has been running for some time.

asked the Minister of Health what is the estimated cost of the claim for increased remuneration which the National Pharmaceutical Union has lodged, following the introduction of the prescription charges, to compensate for the extra work and heavier expenses of their members.

No claim based on these grounds has been lodged.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that in the issue of the "Pharmaceutical Journal" of 7th June it is announced that such a claim was being lodged; and if he is not yet aware of it, if I put a Question down in a week or fortnight, will he be able to give me the information?

I have answered the Question on the Order Paper, which was whether a claim had been lodged. The answer is, no.

asked the Minister of Health how many patients suffering from tuberculosis in England and Wales are awaiting admission to sanatoria or hospitals.

The latest ascertained figure was 7,096 at 31st December last. It is probably rather less now.

Is the Minister prepared to receive and to consider suggestions for overcoming the administrative difficulty to allow these unfortunate sufferers relief from the charge for prescriptions?

I am always prepared to receive any suggestion of that nature. It is true that the figures have dropped dramatically since their peak of 11,000 in, I think, 1949.

To what extent is this difficulty due to shortage of staff rather than to shortage of beds?

The waiting list has lessened a great deal. The principal reasons are the improved recruiting of nurses; to some extent a special drive to set beds apart, and some extent the new treatments which are being used.

Would the Minister not consider again sending patients out to Switzerland in view of the fact that there are many empty beds there and that the cost is no more in Switzerland than in this country?

I am always prepared to look at the matter.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that persons coming from abroad to seek work in this country may be suffering from active respiratory tuberculosis; and what steps he proposes to take to exclude those who suffer from this infectious disease.

I am considering again with the other Ministers concerned whether further steps should be taken.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the matter is urgent and that there are cases that have come to our, and I am sure to his, notice of acutely infected people coming in who transmit this rather dreadful disease?

Yes, Sir. There is a check upon aliens but, as the hon. Member knows, that might well not reveal the presence of the disease which concerns him. The organised groups of European volunteer workers are subject to X-ray examination, and the question of the remainder is under discussion between myself and the other Ministers concerned.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind cases from Eire, too, where no such checks have existed?

Yes, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend make certain that he does not incur any retaliatory action from Switzerland?

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the fact that less money per tuberculosis patient is spent on those in hospital in the area of the Newcastle Regional Board than in any other part of the country and the fact that the incidence of tuberculosis on Tyneside is in excess of the incidence in the rest of the country, he will make inquiries as to whether further efforts should not be made to deal with this disease.

I understand that facilities in this area have been steadily increasing and that the number of beds available in the region has gone up since the end of 1949 by nearly 17 per cent. and is now higher than the national average in relation to population. I shall continue to keep the matter under review.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that answer is no answer at all to the Question? Will he bear in mind that we have less money in our region than has any other region, and that we have not our fair share? What action has been taken as a result of the Adjournment debate initiated by the hon. Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Central (Mr. Short), supported by myself, last March, on the incidence of tuberculosis on Tyneside?

The details of the Adjournment debate to which my hon. Friend refers are not in my mind at the moment. I will certainly look it up, but I should have thought it a fallacy to judge the efficiency of this or any other treatment which is necessary by the amount of money recorded in relation to each patient.

Is the Minister aware that while we are all anxious to press forward even more rapidly with work in this field, we are all gratified at the very real advances made during the last two or three years?

indicated assent.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has noted that the death rate during 1951 from cancer of the lung and bronchus was higher than the death rate from respiratory tuberculosis; and what explanation can be given for the recent and alarming increase in the death rate from the former condition.

Yes, Sir. The reason for the increase is not yet known, but research is being continued in this country and abroad.

Has the Minister not yet accepted the advice provisionally given by the Medical Research Council and research workers in America, that there may be some association between the rapid rise in cancer of the lung and bronchus and cigarette smoking; and if his Department has come to any conclusion, would he say what it is?

I have considered that, but my Standing Advisory Committee consider that further investigation is necessary before a final conclusion can be reached on that matter which, as the hon. Member with his medical knowledge knows, is still in dispute.

In view of the extreme importance of this question, would not the Minister consider appointing a special committee of inquiry to deal with it promptly, because many people, as he well knows, are very anxious about it?

I am always prepared to consider any suggestion of that nature, but I already have a Standing Advisory Committee on this matter, and I prefer to leave it in their hands since I have full confidence in them.

asked the Minister of Health what inquiries have been made into the treatment for hæmophilia devised by Dr. W. A. Timperley, Sheffield, details of which have been sent to him; and what steps he has taken to assess the value of this treatment.

This treatment has been investigated by the Medical Research Council on three separate occasions, care being taken to follow the technique recommended by Dr. Timperley. In every case the Council's investigators have failed to find any evidence in support of the claims made.

Does not my right hon. Friend appreciate that there are patients who can definitely state that they are receiving benefit from this treatment? If the Medical Research Council wish to substantiate their statement, can they put forward an alternative?

I do not dispute what my hon. Friend has said. The treatment, I understand, can be prescribed under the general medical service if a doctor happens to think it suitable. But it is undoubtedly true, from the information I have been given—I may add that Dr. Timperley was given a grant in 1937 by the Medical Research Council—that the fullest investigation has taken place into this claim.

asked the Minister of Health what were the findings of the inquiry into a recent attack by a patient on a nurse at the Darenth Park Mental Hospital; and what steps are being taken to ensure more adequate supervision as well as reasonable care and attention of the patients.

The inquiry has not yet been concluded. When I receive the committee's final report I shall consider whether any further action is called for.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that one in five child patients contract an additional illness while in hospital as is shown in the report by Dr. J. W. D. Goodall recently published in "The Lancet"; and what action he is taking to deal with this.

I am aware of the article to which the hon. Member refers. On the advice of the Central Health Services Council my predecessor sent to hospital authorities last October a series of memoranda on different aspects of the prevention of cross-infection in hospitals, and hospital authorities, as their capital resources permit, are improving old-fashioned children's wards.

What is the Minister doing about those hospitals which are taking no action on the recommendations that his predecessor issued for the avoidance of cross-infection? After all, people go into hospital to get rid of their complaints, not to contract new ones.

Yes, of course. I have read the article referred to, but we do not want to exaggerate the seriousness of this matter because at least half of the cross-infections are common colds. It is unquestionably true that many hospital authorities are not carrying out to the full the instructions that have been sent to them, and I am grateful to the hon. and gallant Gentleman for the publicity he has given to this matter.

asked the Minister of Health what action he is taking to deal with the unpunctual attendance of doctors at hospital out-patient clinics.

This is a matter for the hospital authorities concerned.

Has the right hon. Gentleman seen articles which have appeared in "The Lancet" complaining about the continued unpunctuality of doctors in charge of hospital out-patient clinics? Are not these gentlemen reasonably well paid for their services and ought they not to clock in on time to ensure a humane and efficient out-patient service?

It is unquestionably true that the time of patients is very valuable, but let us not forget how very valuable also is the time of consultants and specialists.

On the point that specialists are very busy men, will the right hon. Gentleman encourage hospitals to tighten up their appointments systems so that out-patients may attend at times suitable to the specialists?

I believe that that is fundamentally a matter for the hospital authorities themselves. I have inquired into the issue of guidance on this matter and as it was a very long time ago that my Department issued guidance I will consider whether it would be helpful to do so again.

asked the Minister of Health if he will now consider reversing the decision to refuse permission to the Leicester Royal Infirmary to construct new X-ray and casualty departments.

I regret that the limited capital resources available do not allow of this scheme starting at present.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there will be great disappointment at his answer? Will he consider a scheme to start this work and perhaps so to modify it that timber can be used instead of some of the steel?

I am very disappointed that I cannot give a go-ahead to this scheme, which has been planned for a very long time. We are encouraging the authorities to proceed with the planning. The project has an extremely high priority and as soon as capital resources are available it will be given a go-ahead with the priority which is desired.

How much money is involved? What quantity of scarce materials is necessary to implement the scheme?

It has not reached that stage. I should like to see that question on the Order Paper.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the people of Leicester are very deeply disturbed about the matter, particularly as much money was collected there for the hospital and as the scheme has been in contemplation for a considerable time? Is he aware that the project is highly essential to meet the needs of patients in Leicester? Will he do something better than say that at some distant time he will deal with the matter?

I think I covered the points which have been raised in my answer to the hon. Member for Leicester, South-West (Mr. Bowden). I am as disturbed about this as is the hon. Member and I am just as anxious as he is for the scheme to be given the go-ahead.

asked the Minister of Health if he has yet considered a report from the Welsh Regional Hospitals Board on the state of affairs in the Caernarvonshire and Anglesey Infirmary, Bangor.

I understand that I may expect the report of the investigating committee and the recommendations of the Regional Hospital Board within the next few weeks.

As matters have been in a critical state at the infirmary for the past six months, will the right hon. Gentleman expedite the matter? There is considerable uneasiness in the area. We have been waiting for six months and public opinion is most disquieted about it.

I understand that, and I fully agree that there has been extremely long delay. The matter is now nearing finality, and I believe that the hon. Gentleman's Question will help towards that.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to provide further accommodation in institutions for mentally deficient children having regard to the fact that there are approximately 4,000 cases waiting, half of whom are regarded as urgent, for vacancies in 7,120 beds.

The attention of regional Hospital boards has been drawn to the urgency of this matter and they have been asked to give special attention to schemes for increasing the accommodation for this type of case.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that about 4,000 homes are being robbed of decent family life by these unfortunate children and that what is required for them is not elaborate medical attention but accommodation and reasonable conditions of life? Will he further urge regional boards to obtain accommodation suitable for these cases?

I am extremely conscious of the urgency of this matter. It is true that about 200 extra beds will become available from schemes which are now in hand, but I realise that that is negligible against the size of the problem presented to us. All I can say is that I have done, and will do, everything i can to keep before those responsible the needs of mental deficiency cases and, indeed, of all those under the mental health services.

asked the Minister of Health if he is satisfied that there is ample information available to the medical staff on the costing of various aspects of hospital work and treatment.

Not yet, Sir. The development of detailed costing throughout the hospital service is necessarily gradual, but progress is being made.

Will my right hon. Friend take this matter up as one of very considerable urgency in view of the admission in the answer and the very considerable variation in practice in hospitals throughout the country, which is costing a great deal more than it should?

My hon. and gallant Friend will no doubt have seen that fairly comprehensive costing statements were published last week. That makes a good start. In addition, the Nuffield Trust and the King Edward Fund are carrying out a detailed investigation the results of which will be available soon and which, I hope, will be of great assistance.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will cause to be published regularly in the Ministry of Labour Gazette a summary of the quarterly returns of domestic staff rendered by the hospitals to his Department.

I do not regard this as a suitable medium for publication of these returns. The total numbers of domestic staff are published in the annual reports of my Department; the detailed figures for individual hospitals in 1949 are shown in the recently published volume of hospital statistics, and figures for later years will be available shortly.

As it appears that we only get this information approximately once a year and in view of the enormous number of people employed in this capacity, over which apparently the House has no control as it gets the information only once a year, why should we not have this included, if not in the Ministry of Labour returns, at least in some more frequent information?

The Ministry of Labour returns include domestic staff under the very large heading of Professional, Financial and Miscellaneous Services and no subheads are given. I do not think that the Ministry of Labour Gazette is a suitable vehicle for this. It is true that we are badly behind with the volume of hospital statistics, but it is hoped that we shall become much more up to date in the near future.

asked the Minister of Health what was the cost in 1950 and 1951 of sick pay drawn by part-time workers in the Health Service.

I regret that the information is not available

asked the Minister of Education on what date it is proposed to commence the building of the Erith Grammar School.

This school has been included in the revised 1952–53 school building programme, and there is now every prospect that it will be started in October.

Was not the right hon. Lady more than a little naughty when in reply to a Question on 22nd November, she said that the erection of the building would commence on 1st April, and also in saying, when it was pointed out that there had been disappointments before:

"Where there have been disappointments in the past, we hope that those who were disappointed will find that they are now getting a better share of things"?—[OFFICIAL REPORT. 22nd November 1951; Vol. 494, c. 549.]

As the hon. Member has said, there have been several disappointments. I hope that he will not be disappointed in October, and that it will start then. It could not start in April, because there was not at that time sufficient steel. I can only hope that this is the hon. Member's last disappointment.

I will wait until November, and see.

Has the Minister relaxed the ban on starting dates for new schools in London? I think that it was supposed to end in May.

There is no ban on starting dates in the London area. There was a ban for three months, but that time has passed. The London area is in exactly the same position as other areas.

asked the Minister of Education if she will consider the award of certificates and diplomas to students completing courses of university standard at technical colleges, in technologies for which no degrees exist.

asked the Minister of Education the reasons which have led her to abandon the recommendation made in Command Paper No. 8357, that a college of technology with power to grant awards should be set up.

It is customary for technical colleges to award their own certificates and diplomas to students completing courses for which degrees are not available. National diplomas are also available in some technologies. We do not propose to establish a college of technology with power to grant awards, but I shall be prepared to consider any representations made to me for further action at the national level if this should prove to be needed.

Is the Minister aware that technical teachers everywhere will welcome that statement, because they feel that awards of this kind will enhance the status of many courses which have not got the national standing which we envisage on the lines which the Minister suggests?

asked the Minister of Education when she will be able to declare the Government's policy concerning higher technological education.

I would refer the hon Member to the reply given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 11th June.

Can the Minister tell us, or would she care to tell us, when she will be able to inform the House which technical college she will elevate to the status of a university college on the lines of the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

No, I think the hon. Member has not understood quite clearly the statement of my right hon. Friend. I hope shortly—in a few weeks' time—to be able to give some more information about the extra assistance to be given to certain courses in technical colleges.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that a White Paper on Higher Technological Education which was issued by the last Government said that no technological university could come into operation for at least six years and that it could grant no degrees for at least 10 years? Can the Minister say when she thinks that the technological college proposed in the answer given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer will come into operation?

I do not think it is for me to deal with the suppositions or disappointments of the last Government. I think that any question dealing with the subject to which the hon. Gentleman has referred should be addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

On a point of order. May I have your advice and assistance, Mr. Speaker? Last week I put down a Question on this matter to the Minister of Education, and she said that I ought to put it down to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I then put it down to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I was told by him that I must put it down to the Minister of Education. I have asked the Minister of Education the Question, and she refers me to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Can you do anything. Sir, to prevent an insignificant back bencher being tossed like a shuttlecock between the battledores of eminent right hon. Members on the Government Front Bench?

May I, with your permission, Mr. Speaker, answer that question? I think the difficulty arises between universities and the colleges. My responsibility is in connection with courses in technical colleges. The hon. Member has also referred to the universities, and Questions to do with them should be put to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Technical colleges come under the Ministry of Education.

asked the Minister of Education if she is aware of the suppression of the Students' Union of the South-East Essex Technical College by its Principal; and what steps she is considering taking in this matter of academic freedom.

I am informed that a writ has been issued on behalf of one of the students in connection with this matter. Tt would not, therefore, be proper for me to make any comment since the matter is sub judice.

Is the Minister aware that this suspension of a students' union is unique, at least to my knowledge, and that we in the teaching world view this with the utmost disquiet?

asked the Minister of Education (1) whether she will publish a copy of the letter she has addressed to 81 local education authorities concerning their estimated expenditure for next year;

The letter to which the hon. Member refers was varied to meet the particular circumstances of individual local education authorities, but its general object was as stated in the reply which I gave to the hon. Member on 12th June last. I must make it clear that it did not imply any approval or disapproval of the reduction shown by individual authorities in their April estimates. I am examining the replies so far received from the authorities concerned, but I am not yet in a position to say what, if any, further action may be called for in any particular case.

Is the Minister aware that local education authorities who have already reduced their expenditure to the very zero of safety—and in the opinion of the teaching profession below that line —resented the sending out of this letter? Would she tell the House what she meant by her reference in that letter to the grant it is within her power to give?

I think it meant exactly what was said in the letter. I think the words are perfectly clear. What I asked authorities in that letter was to give me full information about the way they had looked at their estimates, about the estimates, because I am responsible for the grant that they receive and therefore I wanted the information. If the hon. Gentleman will read the letter he will see that it neither expresses approval nor disapproval.

Would the right hon. Lady answer Question No. 44, which asks whether she will now publish the letter in the OFFICIAL REPORT?

If the hon. Gentleman will tell me which letter to which authority he wishes to be published I will certainly consider it. I have already said that letters were framed differently for different authorities, because I was asking for information. If the hon. Gentleman says he would like to see the letter sent to the Cardiff local authority I will certainly send him a copy.

Would the hon. Lady publish the letter to the Gloucester education authority, because I understand that that authority is greatly incensed at the implied threat in the letter that unless they do reduce their estimates she will reduce the education grant to that authority?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I will send him that letter, because it is absolutely untrue to say that in that letter it was stated that if the estimates were not further reduced the grant would not be made. That is not stated in the letter.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter as soon as possible.