asked the Minister of Food what action he has decided to take following his consideration of the suggestions put forward by the Retail Fruit Trade Federation for the reorganisation and development of the distributive side of the fruit and vegetable trade.

The proposal of the Retail Fruit Federation is still under examination.

Does the Minister realise how weary the country is becoming of things being "under consideration"? The Government have had a further 10 weeks to look at this. Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that during the Recess bananas have been turned into pig food because the distributive system was so bad that they could not reach the shops or the hospitals in time and that growers could not collect their plums because it did not pay them? Is that the sort of distributive system that the Government intends to enforce?

I think the House will agree that consideration is required before proceeding to action. This is by no means the only proposal which has been put forward. All the proposals which have been put forward—some were put forward in the time of the last Government and I do not see that any action was taken on them—are being examined. There is by no means unanimity on any of the proposals, and there is no great clarity as to what some of them are. However, they are now being examined and the appropriate departments are considering them.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that in politics one cannot please all the people all the time and that it is better to take a risk by doing something rather than nothing?

asked the Minister of Food whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the suggestions put forward by the Transport and General Workers' Union in their letter dated 17th July last which was submitted by him to the White Fish Authority at the time.

The White Fish Authority and representatives of the Transport and General Workers' Union have met and exchanged views on the suggestion contained in the union's letter of 17th July last.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that fish is left on the dockside when housewives want it because the money which can be obtained locally is not sufficient to induce the wholesalers to take it? Will he please look into the matter a little more quickly?

I am afraid that the hon. Lady has not really looked at the proposals of the Transport and General Workers' Union as carefully as I have. There are many things concerned with the quick freezing of the first catches at sea and other highly technical matters which the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research are considering, and when we have their report we will see what we can do.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman make inquiries about five ships which were diverted from Grimsby to Hull last week? If all the fish had been landed at Grimsby the price would have dropped considerably, so they were deliberately diverted to Hull in order to keep up the price?

I will look into that, but I have no information about it.

asked the Minister of Food what action is intended by the Government concerning the black market in eggs; and if he will make a statement on the recent inquiry into this matter.

asked the Minister of Food whether he has now completed his investigation into the present method of egg control; and whether he will make a statement on changes in the system.

asked the Minister of Food what action has been taken, at his instructions, by his Department to deal with the black market in eggs; and what success has attended these special efforts.

asked the Minister of Food whether he will now decontrol the sale of eggs.

asked the Minister of Food what changes he now proposes to make in the arrangements for distribution of shell eggs in the United Kingdom.

I hope to be able to make a statement early in the next Session.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend bear in mind that it is beyond human nature to suppose that men will not sell eggs which they do not themselves want to eat or buy eggs that they do want to eat at whatever is the appropriate price for the deal at the time?

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that from the grey or the black market some restaurants and hotels can get any number of eggs that they wish but the law-abiding housewife with her ration book gets one miserable egg a week? Will he do something about it?

It is not one egg a week; the average is two eggs a week. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] It is no good hon. Gentlemen opposite saying "No" because the figures show that the allocations average two a week. These are figures which hon. Gentlemen opposite were very happy to accept when they were given by my predecessor in the last Parliament. All these points which are raised by hon. Gentlemen opposite and hon. Friends of mine show the tremendous difficulty of putting this straight. It is one of the most complicated schemes to put right that there could possibly be. All the points which have been raised are very much in our minds.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend bear in mind in the course of his further inquiries that in the last three years it has cost the nation £1,500,000 per annum in administration to cope with only 45 per cent. of all the eggs laid in and imported into the country?

I object to my Question being grouped with the others, Sir. My Question asks what action has been taken by the Department to deal with the black market in eggs and what success has attended its special efforts. I am asking not what is to be done about the issue of eggs but what action has been taken.

I have just outlined what action will be taken.

I want to know what action has been taken, not what action will be taken.

Before my right hon. and gallant Friend makes his statement, will he remember three short points—that he might as well try to control the weather as control the distribution of eggs; that controls are the cause of shortages; and that if consumption is restricted production is restricted?

Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman adequately explain why it has taken so long to hatch out a policy on this subject? Is he aware that in many parts of the country it has been possible for a long time past quite legitimately to obtain eggs over the ration, whereas only a few miles away the people are limited to the ration?

It is well known that people who have 25 hens or fewer are allowed to sell their eggs. That explains a good deal of it, but, as I said before, the scheme as such is not regarded by me as satisfactory and that is why I am looking into the whole thing to have it put right.

As the Minister has not attempted to answer my Question, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Food the number of eggs issued per ration book for the three months ended 27th September, 1952; and how this compares with a similar period in 1951.

An average of 18½, which is the same as for the corresponding period of 1951.

But did not the housewives expect a better performance from a business man's Government than this, and is not this a desolate and miserable story?

asked the Minister of Food if he will reconsider the classification of a second-grade egg, and pay more attention to size and less to spots of dirt.

I have no reason to suppose that the present standard of classification for quality, which is the same as that used for the National Mark Scheme before the war, is causing any general dissatisfaction.

Does my right hon. and gallant Friend appreciate that by the regulations that now exist an egg the size of a marble will command top price, whereas the biggest egg the Minister can lay will be second-grade as long as there is a spot of dirt on it?

Dirt is a most potent cause of deterioration in eggs, and the washing of eggs drives dirt into the egg and causes more rapid deterioration. All these standards have been accepted before the war and have been accepted also by the National Farmers' Union.

If we could do away with this rationing system we could sell eggs more quickly and it would not matter what dirt was on them.

Can the Minister say why a very large, double-yolked egg should be classified as a second-class egg?

It must have had one of the defects mentioned. It must be dirty or have a few blood spots or some of the other things I have written down here. That is what makes it second-class.

asked the Minister of Food how many eggs passed through the packing stations for the first nine months of 1950, 1951 and 1952, respectively.

The numbers of millions of eggs which passed through the United Kingdom packing stations in the first nine months of 1950, 1951 and 1952 were 4,295, 3,923 and 3,790 respectively.

I did not get all the figures, but does the average fall over the three years indicate a smaller production of eggs or does it uphold the allegation made so widely that more eggs are going on to the black market?

No, Sir. There were fewer hens laying.

Is the Minister aware that most people in Scotland get only one egg per ration book per week, and would be try to discover what is happening to the rest of the eggs that are not going to the packing stations?

As the average over the whole country is two per week, I find it extremely difficult to know how I. as a Welshman, could be persuaded to give Scotland more than one.

In view of the fact that over 1,000 million fewer eggs passed through the packing stations in 1951 compared to the number which passed through in 1950, and that according to the figures given today there will be still fewer for the first nine months of 1952, will the Minister review the whole scheme and inquire what his 500 enforcement officers are doing that there should be such a substantial decrease in the number of eggs going to the packing stations?

My hon. Friend has his figures a little mixed; he had better look at the figures I gave in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The actual drop in the number of eggs is the same as the fall in the hen population. As far as the enforcement officers are concerned, he referred to the total in the whole of the Ministry. As there are 350,000 egg producers in this country, he will appreciate the difficulty. That is why I have decided to go into the scheme to see if we can do anything to put it right.

Is there not a weak link in this chain of distribution through the packing stations in that farmers can give three months' notice of their decision not to send eggs to a certain packing station but are not under an obligation to say where they are going to send their eggs?

All the points that have been raised are part of the general investigation into the scheme which I am now making.

Would the Minister consult the Minister of Agriculture as to whether there is not far too great a difference between the spring price of eggs, which is the flush season, and the price in winter, which is the period of the year when only an artist can get his hens to lay?

I am always in the closest consultation with my right hon. Friend in this matter.

Is it a fact that the hens have gone off laying owing to the shock of the return of a Tory Government?

asked the Minister of Food the number of eggs supplied per ration book during 1950, 1951 and 1952, and the amount of feedingstuffs for poultry supplied during these years, including that supplied to poultry keepers with 25 hens or fewer.

As the reply contains a table of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In view of the former reply that many million fewer eggs are being sent to the packing stations, can the Minister say whether the amount of feedingstuffs has increased or decreased?

Perhaps the hon. Lady would look at the reply. I have tried to save time by not having to quote the figures, but I would say that the amount of feedingstuffs supplied for poultry roughly corresponds to the number of eggs produced.

As the Minister has indicated that this amount of feedingstuffs includes poultry keepers with 25 or fewer poultry per head, who are not required to send their eggs to the packing stations, is it possible that the only way a housewife can now get eggs for her family is to become a hen wife as well as a housewife? Is the Minister aware of the great dissatisfaction throughout the whole country regarding this question of eggs? Is it not possible in this jet-propelled age for the wit of the Minister to devise some means of getting eggs to the people?

I do not know why the hon. Lady should get so worried about this now, because it is exactly the same situation as last year and the year before.

Utter nonsense.

The hon. Lady has more than once said that to me, and on both occasions she has been wrong. I am making a statement, which can be proved, that the figures are based on exactly the same basis as last year, and that is the basis taken by the then Government, which the hon. Lady supported and never criticised.

On a point of order. Is it in order, Sir, for a Minister to give a confusing reply relative to the general distribution of eggs, which may find themselves in the black market, and particularising them as having been distributed to housewives?

There is nothing out of order in what has occurred. I think we are referred to a table of figures later on.

asked the Minister of Food whether he will now indicate the proposed level of the meat ration for the remainder of the year.

I hope to maintain the present meat ration of 2s. a week for some time, but I cannot yet make a forecast for the remainder of the year.

Are supplies coming forward from the Argentine and can the Minister consider allowing the price of meat, or at any rate some cuts of meat, to rise so that the law of supply and demand may operate and produce more meat for the benefit of all?

asked the Minister of Food if he has considered the report of the committee which investigated the operations of the Queensland British Food Corporation; and if he will now state the decisions reached by the Government.

The Advisory Body submitted their report to the Queensland British Food Corporation who appointed them. I am at present consulting the Queensland Government about the recommendations which the Corporation subsequently made to both Governments and our joint decisions will be announced as soon as possible.

May we take it that this investigating committee have made a most thorough probe into the affairs of this Corporation, and that Her Majesty's Government here and in Queensland will reach firm decisions about future policy?

I certainly hope so. I am waiting to hear from the Queensland Government, and I can assure my hon. Friend that the committee did very good work indeed.

asked the Minister of Food when he proposes to publish the report of the Primrose Committee on the activities of the Queensland British Overseas Food Corporation.

This is one of the questions I am discussing with the Queensland Government and I will make known our joint decision as soon as possible.

It is the intention of my right hon. and gallant Friend, is it not, to publish the report at some time, because there is a great deal of public interest in this matter?

Yes, Sir, certainly. But my hon. and gallant Friend will realise that this is a joint decision and we shall have to await their observations.

asked the Minister of Food if, in view of the concern about the deterioration in the quality of milk, he will take steps to ensure an absolute minimum for the compositional quality of milk, below which it would be an offence to sell milk, instead of the presumed standard in operation at present.

I must ask the hon. Member to await the report of the Working Party on Quality Milk Production who are studying this matter.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the overwhelming evidence from the National Dairymen's Association and the spokesmen of the county councils is that the standard of milk is seriously deteriorating?

It is the purpose of this committee to investigate that and on their report will be determined what further action will be taken.

asked the Minister of Food to what extent adequate supplies of fresh milk will be available for liquid consumption during the winter months.

Provided there are no abnormal weather conditions, supplies of fresh milk should be sufficient to meet the normal demand for liquid consumption.

How does the Minister explain the fact that pasteurised and non-pasteurised milk have been mixed together before sale to the public, and that milk 49 or more hours old has been distributed?

That is not the question which the hon. and gallant Gentleman asked me. It was whether there would be enough milk available during the winter months, and I said that there was no reason to suppose there would not be.

Does not the Minister agree that putting up the price of milk recently has saved there being a scarcity of milk, because many people cannot afford the milk?

I am very glad to have an opportunity of refuting that statement completely. The actual short-take of milk from 19th September to about 7th October was purely seasonal. It happens every year. Consumption this year is practically the same as it was last year.

Would the Minister agree that every month since the price increase has shown a fall, and that it has averaged between 3 million and 5 million gallons of milk per month?

No, Sir. The seasonal shortage this year, which is the ordinary seasonal shortage shows a loss of about 5 per cent. The estimated consumption this year compared with last year is practically the same.

asked the Minister of Food what percentages of our annual milk production in the United Kingdom are used in cheese-making, dried milk products and tinned liquid milk products, respectively; and what proportion of the United Kingdom requirements in these three products is met from home-produced milk.

As the reply contains a number of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Food the amount of full price fresh milk consumed in September, 1952.

Approximately 107 million gallons in the United Kingdom.

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman now agree that, disregarding seasonal variations and taking every month with the corresponding month of last year, since the increase in the price of milk this summer the consumption of fresh milk has dropped by between 3 million and 5 million gallons per month prior to this September, when it dropped by several hundred thousand gallons?

My estimate, as I told the hon. Member, is made by taking the year as a whole and September was practically the same in 1952 as in 1951.

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman realise that I am not asking him to take each year with the other year as a whole, but I am suggesting that, subsequent to the price increases, there has been a very serious and drastic fall in the consumption of milk?

As fresh milk includes milk which is at least 48 hours old, can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman say how long fresh milk remains fresh and how old is some of the fresh milk for the distribution of which he is responsible?

asked the Minister of Food what steps he is taking in conjunction with the Minister of Health to improve the standards of food preparation which have caused a continued increase in food poisoning.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Health gave information on 16th October about the action we are taking jointly. In addition, my medical and technical officers pay periodic visits to local authorities to assist them in improving the conditions of food handling. Special attention is being paid to the inspection of meat and of meat products manufacture. A manual of guidance on hygiene in the catering industries is shortly to be published.

asked the Minister of Food if he will make a progress report on the experiments in cold storing home-killed beef, lamb and pork this autumn.

Small amounts of pork were cold stored during the summer and kept for short periods to even out distribution. A small quantity of home-killed beef was hard frozen and placed in cold store. Some of it has now been issued. Its condition was satisfactory. The experiments are continuing.

Is it the Minister's intention to extend this experiment in the future so that the autumn flow might be preserved?

That was one of the reasons for the experiment, to get the peak lower than it has been. I said at the time that it was experimental, but I think it will be continued because so far it has been satisfactory.

asked the Minister of Food what loss of meat occurred through delays in slaughtering fat cattle and lambs during August, September and October; and in which parts of the country the most serious loss occurred.

It is not possible to make an estimate. But this autumn fatstock marketing has been more evenly spread than in recent years. This has reduced the interval between purchase and slaughter to what is in general no more than reasonable and necessary.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend keep a close watch on those areas where there have been the longest delays so that as his experiments in cold storage are developed these areas will be looked after particularly?

Certainly, but my hon. Friend will be glad to know that last year that interval between the time of arrival of the cattle for slaughter and the slaughtering was between five to seven days and that for this year it has been reduced to three to four days.

Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware of the report made to the National Farmers' Union in Scotland this week where it is reported that certain sheep in the Glasgow area have been kept seven or eight days without food between the time of sale and the time of slaughter? Would he keep an eye on that sort of thing and look into it, for apart from the cruelty issue the loss of condition must be very great?

I have no information about that, but I will look into it.

asked the Minister of Food if he will make a statement in regard to the request sent to him by the National Federation of Meat Traders to suspend the abolition of the licensing system for retail butchers.

I carefully considered the Federation's views, but came to the conclusion that restricted entry into the retail meat trade is no longer justified.

Does the Minister think there is no substance in the contentions by the Meat Traders' Association, that de-licensing while meat is in short supply will increase distribution costs, increase black marketing and bring more competition from the multiple firms against small traders?

I went into all this very carefully and I listened to the Federation's views, but after giving the question very careful thought I found no need why we should still have licensing in this trade more than any other, and as it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to get rid of licences as soon as possible I took advantage of the opportunity.

asked the Minister of Food which flour improvers other than chlorine dioxide he has considered as possible substitutes for nitrogen trichloride; and which, he has been advised, is the most desirable.

The examination of possible alternatives to the agene process has not yet been completed. Until I have the report of this examination I cannot add to what I said to the hon. Member on the subject on 31st March.

Will the Minister not accept, however, that it has been a very long time since this investigation began, and would be in any event accept this guiding principle, that there should be no introduction into the bodies of human beings of any chemicals which are foreign to, and not normally found in, human beings?

I should hate to accept that principle, because I do not know whether it could be worked. The hon. Gentleman asked me to agree that there should not be introduced into the bodies of human beings any chemicals not normally found in human beings, but I am not sufficiently a technician to accept that. I must point out to the hon. Gentleman, however, that the last time he asked me this question I told him that my information was that the investigation would take a considerable time and that I did not expect to get the report before the end of the year. I still hope that that is the date by which I shall get it.

Would my right hon. and gallant Friend go into this again, because this interference by chemists and the so-called improvement of flour is becoming a very great danger? How can pure flour be improved?

I would not know about that, but that is what this inquiry is supposed to tell me. I understand that this process has been used in flour making for over 50 years, but to make quite certain that there is no risk attached to it this committee is making a most careful investigation not only into agene but into possible alternatives.

Would the Minister at least answer me on this point, has his Department considered the use of ascorbic acid?

I do not know about that particular one, but there are all sorts of alternatives before these gentlemen, and that is why it takes such a long time. Tests over a long period of time have to be taken before we dare take any risk in the matter.

asked the Minister of Food to what extent there has been a change over from the use of nitrogen trichloride as a flour improver; and whether he can now say when nitrogen trichloride will no longer be in use.

I have no precise information of the extent to which particular flour improvers are used and until I have the results of the investigations now in progress I cannot make any statement about the future.

Can the Minister tell us whether it is roughly 5 per cent., about 1 per cent., per year, since the Government originally stated that this change would take place? If so, does he not think that that is rather slow in connection with the use of a substance which is admittedly dangerous to some animals and possibly dangerous to human beings?

The hon. Gentleman is probably in a far better position than I am to judge about the length of time, but I was advised by the technicians over a year ago that it would take a year to test it, and, therefore, I cannot anticipate their decision. It is getting on towards the end of the year and I hope at that time to be in possession of the necessary information.

asked the Minister of Food whether he will make a statement on the progress of the negotiations with the Argentine Government on meat.

I cannot add to the reply given to the hon. Members for Dartford (Mr. Dodds) and Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) on 15th October.

Can the Minister say whether negotiations are still proceeding through the medium of our ambassador or whether any of the retail or wholesale meat traders in this country have a voice in these negotiations?

The negotiations are proceeding in the normal way.

Is not the time coming when the Minister should tell the general public the world position in regard to the consumption of meat? Is he not aware that the continual hopes which are held out of more red meat are very disturbing and keep people in a state of great suspense?

I have not noticed that people are in a state of great suspense, but I have noticed that they are a little more satisfied this year with the position than they were last year.

asked the Minister of Food what quantity of meat was imported from the Argentine for the last month for which figures are available; and what quantity of meat was imported from the Argentine for the corresponding period last year.

According to the records of my Department 688 tons of meat and offal were imported from Argentina during September this year as compared with 4,598 tons imported during the same month in 1951.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman agree that this is a serious shortfall and emphasises the need to speed up these negotiations? Is he never tempted to send out a business man to the Argentine?

The hon. Member must not compare strictly this September with last September, because he will appreciate much more readily than I that last September came at the end of a period when there was practically no meat available at all.

Will the Minister state the price we are paying for the meat which has been coming in from the end of September? Might it be £200 a ton?

The hon. Member will know in good time.

Does the Minister agree that the meat ration in September last was more than it is now?

No, there is a larger meat ration now than in September last year, soon after which the present Government came in.

asked the Minister of Food what obstacles now remain to abandoning the restrictions upon rearing and slaughter of backyard pigs.

The present rules are needed to ensure that pigs raised by self-suppliers are additional to normal production and that they yield the maximum amount of extra food with a minimum use of scarce feedingstuffs. They must, I am afraid, continue so long as the supply position makes it necessary for producers generally to sell for the ration.

In view of the steadily improving feedingstuffs position and increased home production would my right hon. and gallant Friend give an assurance that the first additional supplies of feedingstuffs will be used to abolish the very restrictive clauses in the regulations relating to the raising of backyard pigs?

I think it follows that as long as the restricted position of supply remains as it is today, and as long as it remains necessary for most of the bacon produced to go into the ration, restrictions must, of course, remain.

Would not the Minister agree that the raising of backyard pigs, while good in itself, offers no safeguard to the public who use the meat, unless the meat is inspected after slaughter? Will he bear in mind any necessary alteration in the rules, so that local authorities can see that the meat is inspected?

asked the Minister of Food whether he is satisfied with the home production of sugar; and if he will encourage and expand the sugar beet industry by the immediate erection of a sugar beet factory in Sussex.

It is very gratifying that record outputs of home-produced sugar have been achieved during the past two seasons. The reconstruction of the sugar beet factories which is at present going on will be a help and encouragement to the industry, but the building of another factory is ruled out at present because of the limitations on capital investment.

Would my right hon. and gallant Friend agree that plans were well advanced three or four years ago for the building of a sugar beet factory in the neighbourhood of Chichester, but were then delayed owing to a financial crisis of the kind which used to occur year by year in those days? Would he give us his assurance that at the first possible moment this extremely essential factory will be built?

I could not give an assurance, because we have to remember that we have commitments with Commonwealth countries with regard to taking sugar produced there. The extension and improvement of factories here, when completed, will make the factories quite capable of dealing with the home crop, and as it would take at least three years to build one of these factories it could not make an immediate contribution to the current difficulty.

Would the Minister bear in mind the claims which Hampshire farmers have been making for a long time for such a factory?

Would my right hon. and gallant Friend bear in mind that sugar beet growers, in East Anglia in particular, are very anxious for him to do what my hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Mr. Gough) has asked him to do, to build a factory in the south? At present, the southern crop holds up the taking of the East Anglian crop by East Anglian factories.

Will the Minister also bear in mind the south-west of England, when a new factory is to be provided, because at present our sugar beet crop has to travel a very long distance?

I was going to suggest to my hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Mr. Gough) that Chichester was not the only part of Britain that wanted a sugar beet factory and that there are claims from many parts of the country. At the moment I can give no undertaking that a factory will be provided, because we are determined to go on with the modernisation of existing factories, which are sufficient to deal with our present crop.

Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware that sugar beet in the south of England has very of ten to go via Bristol in order to get to the north of England with consequent risk of frost to the crop, and that the expense is so great to the farmers that in a very short time the sugar beet crop in the south of England will become less and less? It is a valuable cleaning crop, but it will also have an effect on other cereal crops as well.

On the question of transport costs, special arrangements have been made to help to meet them, and in the latest price adjustment made they have been taken into account.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend remember that there is a widespread demand not only from Sussex but from all the Southern counties for a sugar beet factory? Could not the difficulties be overcome?

That is the original point, and the answer is that in existing circumstances it is not possible.

Would the Minister discuss the matter with his colleague the Minister of Agriculture?

asked the Minister of Food if he can now give a forecast of the date when sweets will be de-rationed.

No, Sir, but I shall de-ration as soon as circumstances permit.

Is not the consumption of sweets artificially inflated to some extent by the fact that many people, of whom I confess I am one, purchase the maximum that is available so as not to lose part of the ration? Without the ration, might it not be that the normal demand could be met from the normal sources of supply?

That may well be, but when the amount going into the shops is not quite the amount of the ration that is a risk one cannot take. The fact is that the cuts on imported materials brought into effect last year are only now beginning to have their full effect.

asked the Minister of Food whether, as a consequence of exporting malting barley, he will take steps to see that the currency earned in the transaction is used to purchase additional quantities of feeding grain from abroad.

Any shortfall in the anticipated receipts of home-grown grain into the ration pool as a result of these small exports will be made good by increased imports.

Cannot the Minister augment the existing supply of homegrown feedingstuffs, at all events later in the year, by using any profit he may make on selling this malting barley abroad in buying feeding grain?

I am sure my hon. Friend will realise that the amount involved, which is about 120,000 tons, would not make a very great impression upon the feedingstuffs pool, which he knows is much bigger.

asked the Minister of Food why he has allowed the export of 120,000 tons of barley from this country; and what effect this will have on the proposal to deration animal feedingstuffs.

To earn a trading profit in European Payments Union currencies.

asked the Minister of Food how many tons of barley were exported from the United Kingdom between 1st August and 1st October, 1952; and to what extent it is proposed to export any further quantities.

According to the records of my Department, approximately 71,000 tons. A further quantity, not exceeding 50,000 tons, may be shipped between 1st October and 30th November.

Presumably this barley was sold at malting prices. Can the Minister give an assurance that the amount of foreign currency gained through this deal will be spent on purchasing cheaper feeding barley abroad, so that there may be more feedingstuffs in this country this year than there would have been had this deal not taken place?

I could not say that, but any short-fall there may be in the agreed level will be made up out of this. The question of what use will be made of it as a whole will depend on circumstances.

Is the Minister aware that this malting barley was sold at the good price of 130s. a quarter and that since the Minister prevented any further export the price of malting barley has slumped to 100s. or less. Is he further aware we are losing a valuable export possibility by not exporting this malting barley at a good price, when there is no demand for it at home?

The fact is that, owing to the very heavy harvest it came at a time when there was a great deal in store and the fact that there was a glut might have affected the price even more. We took advantage of the opportunity which was offered.

Will the Minister consider doing it again at a later date?

asked the Minister of Food if he will state the names of the members and the terms of reference of the committee which is to inquire into the question of the slaughter of horses.

asked the Minister of Food when he will be able to make a statement about the findings of the committee set up by himself and the Secretary of State for Scotland to consider the law relating to the slaughter of horses in slaughterhouses and knackers' yards.

I am pleased to say that the Duke of Northumberland has accepted the Chairmanship of the Committee.

Could the Minister, in the meanwhile, while awaiting the report, give special instructions to his officers to do all that can be done to see that cruelty in the slaughtering of the horses is minimised as far as possible?

As my hon. Friend probably knows, I have now been instructed as Minister to take charge of that side of slaughtering. An order was made some time ago making it incumbent on slaughterers to give notice of intention to slaughter. It is, of course, the local authority who is responsible, but I am in touch with the local authorities in this matter.

Can the Minister say whether the terms of reference will permit the committee to inquire into the allegations that New Forest ponies are rounded up and slaughtered for human consumption?

I should think so, because the terms of reference refer to horses generally, but I will bring that point to the notice of the committee.

Do the terms of reference include the slaughtering of horses imported from abroad?

I should have thought so because the terms of reference begin with the words:

"To consider the law and the practice thereunder relating to the slaughter of horses in slaughterhouses.…"

Will this committee look into the cruelty that takes place in the transit of horses for slaughter?

That is not in the terms of reference.

Could the Minister say if the terms of reference will cover those horses which are exported to other countries and then slaughtered there?

That would not come within the terms of reference, because it might be outside our authority altogether. If horses are exported to other countries that can only be stopped by the ordinary approach through the usual channels.

But is it not the case that if the terms of reference do not include horses exported from this country to other countries the whole purpose of the inquiry will be rendered null and void?

I am sorry; I misunderstood the hon. Gentleman. I will look specifically into the terms of reference with regard to his point about trade with other countries.

asked the Minister of Food if he will control the present selling price of English prunes.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that at the present price of 3s. a 1b. English prunes cost three times as much as the imported foreign ones? Will he do something to prevent the English consumer from being frightened off the consumption of English prunes?

I thought the hon. and gallant Gentleman would be rather pleased that we made an experiment at all. There are no imported prunes here now, and if it had not been that we took the control off it would not have been possible to make this experiment which, in the initial stages, is fairly expensive.

Would the Minister bear in mind that in experiments conducted in Worcestershire and Warwickshire only 30,000 lbs. of prunes were produced this year, that it is the beginning of a new industry, and that at the rate of 120 fruits per lb. and 12 fruits per breakfast dish that dish costs only 4d., which is very reasonable?

asked the Minister of Food what steps he is taking to assist the fishermen of Tollesbury and the other smaller fishing villages on the East Coast to find markets for their catches of sprats during the coming spratting season.

I understand that the White Fish Authority are giving special attention to the improved marketing of sprats. I have just received a letter from the hon. Member on a special aspect of the matter and will let him have a reply as soon as possible.

Will the Minister bear in mind the importance of not allowing these small fishing communities and fishing fleets to die out altogether and that there is a very serious threat to their existence owing partly to the activities of his own Department, as outlined in that letter?

Without going into details of that matter now, which the hon. Member knows about, I shall certainly do everything I can to maintain these small communities; but with regard to the question of sales, they are purely temporary and in no way my responsibility.

Does my right hon. and gallant Friend regard the recent unanimous decision of the Maldon division of the Labour Party, in support of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Walthamstow, West (Mr. Attlee), as a sprat to catch a Maldon mackerel?

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the trawler owners of Grimsby and Hull have decided to refuse the use of boxes and winches to the Icelandic fishing vessels landing fish; and in view of the fact that this action will deprive this country of large supplies of fish and so cause the price of fish to rise, what action he proposes to take.

Her Majesty's Government are watching the position closely, but it would not be in the general interest to make any statement on the matter at present.

Is the Minister aware that housewives consider that any action taken by private enterprise which deprives them of food should be considered to be a criminal offence? Is he aware also that the action that has been taken by the Grimsby and Hull Trawlers' Association has deprived this country of approximately £250,000 worth of fish, and will he obtain a copy of the speech made on behalf of the Icelandic Trawler Owners' Association as late as 2nd October, in which they say that they consider this to be a matter for Government action and that it should not be left to private enterprise to deal with it?

I do not want to go into this rather delicate matter in very great detail now. It is being dealt with by the Government, and I have no more to say at the moment. As far as the trawler owners are concerned, as long as they keep within what they are legally entitled to do, the Government cannot interfere; they have not done anything to date, as far as I know, which is illegal.

May I ask my right hon. and gallant Friend two questions? First, is he aware that the action taken in Grimsby and Hull has the overwhelming support of the fishermen of those ports, whose livelihood has been threatened by the action of the Icelandic Government? Further, is he aware that the action of the Icelandic Government in closing their waters to British and other trawlers has no foundation whatever in international law?

If my right hon. Friend does not mind, I should prefer not to add anything at the moment.

While it certainly is true that the fishermen in, I think, all the ports—not only in Hull, but certainly in Grimsby—feel very strongly about this Iceland question, is the Minister nevertheless aware that it is most desirable that this should be settled by diplomatic means and not by a trade war between the private industries of the two countries, which can do no good to either side?

I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman.

Will the Minister obtain a copy of the speech to which I have referred and place it in the Library, so that Members of the House can see the suggestion made by the Icelandic Trawler Owners' Association?

I assume that the speech was published in a periodical, and I should have thought that it might have got into the Library without my putting a copy there.

Can the Minister tell whether the action taken by the trawler owners is in accordance with their existing international obligations?

What I said was that as long as the trawler owners did nothing illegal—to date, they have done nothing illegal; to withhold facilities is not illegal—and as long as they remain within the law, the Government cannot interfere.

It is criminal.

What is the latest progress in the negotiations with the Icelandic Government?

Perhaps my hon. Friend will put down a Question to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.

asked the Minister of Food what steps he is taking to ensure that food allocated to retailers on the basis of registered customers, goes to those customers.

Fair distribution of allocated foods among the retailer's customers is left to his good sense, which is usually reliable.

Is the Minister aware that there is a growing conviction among housewives of all sections of the community that with certain perishable foods like butter, bacon and meat, the amount of these commodities that the housewife can get is based rather upon the amount of money in her purse rather than on the number of ration books in her bag? Is he further aware that the satisfaction which he expressed a little while ago, which came to him from housewives of a certain section of the community, is at the expense of the lower income group?

That is an extremely unfortunate statement. (HON. MEMBERS: "It is true.") In answer to a Question last July I issued a detailed table of the take-up of the rations, which is the only method by which the figures can be ascertained. If the hon. Member would do me the favour of going to the Library to look at a copy he would find that the take-up this year is in some cases greater than last year.

Can the Minister explain how it is that some retailers in certain parts of the country are quite legitimately, apparently, able to sell to their registered customers four, six or a dozen eggs per week over and above the normal ration?