asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what assessment he has made of the aggregate increased consumption, in tons, of oil, petroleum and petroleum products and consequential diminution of electricity offtake, expressed in convenient form, during each of the years 1952 and 1953, arising from withdrawal of electric trams by municipalities and others, and replacement by oil and petrol-driven omnibuses; what fuel policy guidance is being given by Her Majesty's Government to municipalities and others, in regard to future investment in electric tramways, electric trolley-omnibuses and petroleum and oil-driven omnibuses, with special reference to fuel conservation and whether he will make a statement.

There may result an increase of some 20,000 tons a year in oil consumption and a decrease of about 100 million units of electricity a year. It is the policy of the Government not to interfere, on fuel grounds, with the free choice of types of vehicle.

Will my right how Friend bear in mind the strategical implications of replacing electric trams, which are based on coal supplies for electricity, by vehicles requiring imported fuel, and the extra burden that would place on tanker tonnage in the event of war?

Yes, Sir, but the quantities are relatively small. One must also bear in mind that, in the event of air attack, an independent petrol vehicle is less of a risk from the points of view of disturbance and flexibility than the electric tram or trolley-bus.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power in what statutes or other instruments the powers and duties of his Department are defined.

My general functions are defined in Section 1 of the Ministry of Fuel and Power Act, 1945. With regard to specific functions, I will, with permission, circulate a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Does the Minister recall that a few days ago, in a non-oral Question, I asked him what was the authority on which he gave a direction to the oil companies, and his reply was that it was simply by virtue of his office as Minister of Fuel and Power and as a Member of Her Majesty's Government? Was not that reply singularly uninformative and also a little discourteous?

No, Sir; I think it was neither the one nor the other. Certainly, it was not intended to be.

What was it then?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what request he has received from the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company for authority to produce documents required by United States Department of Justice in its inquiry into alleged anti-trust activities; and what reply he has made.

None, Sir.

How can any Government inquire into alleged abuses arising from cartels which are, by their nature, international if another Government refuses to allow essential documents to be produced?

I can only say that the decision whether or not to seek the Government's authority to produce documents is entirely one for the company.

Has the right hon. Gentleman made up his mind about the kind of answer he will give in the event of his receiving such a request?

That is very definitely hypothetical.

Is it not true that the documents in question are those relating to the period from 1945 to 1950, when the late Government were 51 per cent. shareholders in the company?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether the new Bankside power station has come into action; what its annual consumption of fuel oil will be; how much sulphur this oil will contain; how many tons of sulphur oxides will be formed on combustion; and what proportion of these will annually be discharged into the atmosphere.

No, Sir, not yet. The station is expected annually to consume about 40,000 tons of fuel oil, containing about 1,600 tons of sulphur which will form about 3,200 tons of oxides on combustion. About 5 per cent. will be discharged into the atmosphere.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that, when Bankside starts work, and, still more, when it is completed—that is, doubled—the sulphur oxides discharged from it will not harm St. Paul's?

I do not know that I can give an unqualified undertaking in that respect, but the Fuel Research Station, the British Electricity Authority and the authorities of St. Paul's Cathedral are installing special instruments to measure the amount of sulphur dioxide discharged.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the opening of the new station will relieve the residents in the locality of the nuisance of soot and grit now deposited by the old station, and that the earlier it is opened the better they will be pleased?

The old station ought to have been pulled down.

I believe that the solution, which was arrived at in the time of the late Government, was with a view to improving the conditions.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the total of the extra financial charges imposed, since October, 1951, on the British Electricity Authority and the area electricity boards by the higher rates of interest chargeable on electricity loans.

Total interest payments in the year ending 30th September, 1952, were £22 million compared with £18 million for the previous 12 months. The increase was due mainly to additional capital raised by the industry, but partly to changes in interest rates. Any allocation between these two factors could only be hypothetical.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that these extra charges are yet another millstone, to coin a phrase, about the neck of an industry which is vital to our productive effort?

I do not think that either the phrase or the idea is highly original.

Is it not desirable that the British Electricity Authority should submit to the financial discipline of the money market in the same way as any other industrial undertaking does?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he is taking to implement Recommendation No. 35 of the Ridley Committee on National Policy for the Use of Fuel and Power Resources, to the effect that electricity boards should permanently and publicly abandon restrictive conditions upon private independent electricity generation; what form, or forms, such public abandonment is to take; and when.

The British Electricity Authority have informed me that they intend to implement this recommendation and will make a public announcement shortly.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether, in considering the re-appointment of members of the South-Eastern Electricity Consultative Council, he will bear in mind the failure of this Council to protest at certain anomalous and disproportionate increases which have taken place, and to which his attention has been drawn.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's grievance, but I would refer him to the recent report of this Council.

If I forward to my right hon. Friend the correspondence which I have had with this body, will he reconsider his decision in the light of that correspondence?

I will certainly examine the correspondence with great care.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will implement the recommendations of the Ridley Committee to expand the present scheme for assisting the installation of fuel-saving equipment before the winter is over.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps the Government have taken to carry out the recommendation of the Ridley Committee that the present scheme for Government loans for approved fuel saving installations should be amplified on more attractive terms.

These recommendations are under consideration, and I propose to discuss them with representatives of industry at an early date.

Arising out of that reply, which is very satisfactory, may I ask my right hon. Friend to bear in mind that there is no time to waste in pressing on with all sorts of fuel saving?

I quite agree, and I am arranging the meeting with the industry as soon as it is possible for them to meet.

Will the Minister consider giving help to the manufacturers of these appliances and installations, as well as those who put them in?

That is an aspect which I think I ought to discuss with the industry's representatives.

In view of the fact that this is the most important single recommendation made by the Ridley Committee, will the right hon. Gentleman really try to get it carried out?

Yes.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he has taken to carry out the recommendation of the Ridley Committee that the production of high-efficiency open fires of utility pattern capable of easy installation in existing fire-openings and with convection heating and a restricted throat should be encouraged.

I understand that manufacturers are already developing designs for fires on the lines recommended by the Ridley Committee, and I shall do everything possible to encourage them to continue this work.

In view of the fact that this might save much coal and also reduce the problem of pollution, which costs a great deal every year, will the Minister take action to get this done?

As a matter of fact, we have taken such action in that we have already approved an appliance, but it will be many months before the manufacturers complete it.

But will the Minister see that these people get the raw materials?

We shall certainly endeavour to help in that respect.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the success of the efforts being made by the National Coal Board to sell material called "Nutty Slack," depends very much upon people having modern appliances in which to burn it?

It will be a great help, but the coal mentioned can be burned in other improved appliances already on sale.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the estimated increase of the price of coal consequent upon the recently agreed increase of freight charges.

It will vary with distance from the coalfields, but the average increase will be about 7d. a ton for industrial coals and about 1s. a ton for domestic supplies.

Has the Minister discussed with his colleague, the Minister of Transport, what effect this increase in the price of coal will have on the cost of freight, and what policy is to be put forward to cut across this vicious circle?

The hon. Gentleman knows the difficulties of this matter.

Is not the vicious spiral which this Question indicates the direct and inevitable result of six years of Socialist philosophy?

Has the right hon. Gentleman any idea how this increased cost will affect British Railways?

That would be a matter for my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the average retail price of household coal per ton in Glasgow, Inverness and at Stornoway, respectively; and the price, including transport cost, per ton to the consumer at Northbay, Isle of Barra.

For coal of average quality the current maximum prices are 93s. 9d., 121s. 11d., 127s. 5d. and 137s. 3d. respectively.

Does the Minister not agree that the price for coal at Stornoway, and especially at North-bay, is exorbitant? Is he aware that the rates for some smaller villages further away from the ports, where the coal is delivered in bulk, are even more exorbitant? Will he consult the Minister of Transport and other colleagues concerned to see whether there cannot be introduced, at least, a system of freight equalisation? Surely he agrees that the prices charged to these people in the Islands is very high.

I realise the grievance, but the principle of freight equalisation has been a subject that has been raised very many times unsuccessfully in this House. I believe that in the case of Northbay one of the reasons for the high price is that very large ships are not able to dock there. In some other ports larger ships can get in, which lowers the freight rate.

As the Minister obviously agrees—he did not say he disagreed—that these prices are indeed exorbitant, is he not willing to bring to the notice of his colleagues the serious and real grievance of these people, with a view to initiating action in the interests of justice?

I will examine with care what action was taken by the last Government in this matter.

Is the Minister prepared to justify what really amounts to a tax, and a high tax, on people because they happen to live in Stornoway?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he is taking to alleviate any prejudicial effect on the British export coal trade arising from the decision of G.A.T.T. to give permission to the Schuman Plan countries to abolish tariffs on coal between themselves.

At present, none of the Schuman countries impose tariffs on coal imports. They have also given assurances to the contracting parties of G.A.T.T. that their future tariff policies towards the outside world are likely to be less, rather than more, restrictive than at present.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask if he will ensure that coal exporters are kept in touch with any developments that may affect them in the execution of their business?

Yes, Sir. That is one of the reasons why we have the representation which we have at the seat of the High Authority.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power by how much the quantity of coal used for all purposes in the United Kingdom in the first 44 weeks of 1952 was less than the amount used in the corresponding period of 1951.

Two per cent.

In other words, 4 million or 3½ million tons?

Yes, Sir. These figures are published every week in the weekly statistical statement.

Remembering that the reduction is about 3½ million tons, and that the average increase in recent years has been about 6 million tons, may I ask whether that is the main cause of what the right hon. Gentleman called last week "the better situation" in regard to coal? Would he agree that the improvement is mainly due to reduced industrial activity?

It is due partly to increased production from the mines, partly to the warmer weather of last winter, partly to a reduced rate of industrial activity, which began during the time of the last Government, and lastly, of course, to the fact that this year, as compared with last year, we have not had to import 1,300,000 tons of American coal.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that whereas internal consumption last year increased by 7 million tons and industrial production increased very heavily, the increase this year is very much less, and that industry has used over 2 million tons less than last year?

The right hon. Gentleman has not given proper credit to the economy of coal produced by the operation of fuel efficiency in industry, and even in the nationalised industries.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how much coal has been saved by "the reduced rate of industrial activity," as the right hon. Gentleman calls it?

No, Sir.

Why not?

It is difficult to disentangle the effects of the reduced rate of industrial activity from those of the weather and the other factors which I have mentioned.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power to what extent shortage of steel and cast-iron pipes limited the expansion of the gas industry in 1951–52; to what extent this affected coal economies that could otherwise have been made; what is the estimated deficit of steel and cast-iron supply for the gas industry in 1952–53; and what steps are being taken to meet that deficit in order that the gas industry may make an optimum contribution to coal conservation and coke and other by-product supplies.

It is not possible to provide the detailed estimates that my hon. Friend would like; but I am glad to say that recently we have been able to secure some increase in supplies both of steel and of cast-iron pipes for the gas industry.

Will the increase in supplies meet the demands of the Gas Council in the matter?

I do not think that in present circumstances either the Council or industrialists like those, for example, in the City of Birmingham, with which both he and I are familiar, will expect to have their demands met in full.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps his Department are taking to promote the extraction of natural gas in this country.

On natural gas derived from coal seams, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) on 4th February.

Natural gas may also be derived from petroleum bearing strata and my Department grants licences to prospectors to search and bore for petroleum, including such gas. Forty-two such licences are current covering 6,500 square miles, but I understand that geologists do not expect to find substantial quantities of natural gas associated with petroleum in this country.

Does my right hon. Friend realise the great strides that have been made in other countries in the use of natural gas and that it has been used in this country? Is he aware that I am informed that at one time Heathfield station, in Sussex, was lit by natural gas?

Is the Minister aware that Government restrictions on capital investments have seriously handicapped the very useful work started by the London County Council in the extraction of methane gas from sewage?

I fear that the real deciding factor with regard to natural gas associated with petroleum, which is the most interesting proposition from the world point of view, is that there does not seem to be much in this country.

Can I have an answer to my question?

I am not aware of what the hon. and gallant Gentleman has said. There is, in fact, quite a considerable amount of extraction of methane going on in this country at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs the reasons for the release from Werl prison in Westphalia, by the British authorities, of the former German Field-Marshal Albert Kesselring.

I would refer to my reply to the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. Hamilton) on 11th November.

Will the hon. Gentleman assure the House that Her Majesty's Government have no intention of paying compensation to Kesselring for inconvenience or loss?

As far as I know, no question of compensation arises in this particular case.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how many German ex-Service officers and men under British jurisdiction still await trial or sentence.

I presume that my hon. and gallant Friend is referring to war crimes. In that case the answer is "None, Sir."

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will take action under the urgency procedure to table a resolution at the United Nations deploring the investigation of members of the United Nations Secretariat by a United States Congressional Committee.

A committee of eminent jurists has been appointed by the Secretary-General to advise him upon the status of the United Nations and its Secretariat in regard to the inquiries now being pursued by the United States Congressional Committee. I have no doubt that the Secretary-General will take any appropriate action in the light of their advice.

The attitude of Her Majesty's Government will depend upon the findings of the Committee.

Does the hon. Gentleman not realise that the type of procedure now being adopted by this Congressional Committee is doing tremendous damage to the morale of the United Nations Secretariat, has already led to the suicide of one of the high officials, and has been largely a contributory factor towards the resignation of the Secretary-General himself? Is he also aware that this Committee has described the United Nations as being a nest of spies and saboteurs, and that it requires a certain amount of guts and verve from this Government to try to get a counter-attitude to this type of activity?

The difficulty is that this is to some extent sub judice while it is being investigated by a committee of jurists appointed by the Secretary-General himself. I should prefer not to make any comment about the attitude of Her Majesty's Government in this matter until that Committee has reported.

While I quite understand that the Minister does not want to make a statement now, will he consider whether the recent actions of the United States authorities are really consistent with Article 100 of the Charter under which every member of the United Nations undertakes to respect the exclusively international character of the responsibilities of the Secretary-General and the staff and not to seek to influence them in the discharge of their responsibilities? Will he consider whether, even if in the present case no exception could be taken, this kind of procedure, if taken by all Governments, might not be very damaging to the international Secretariat?

The initiative in this matter rests, in the first place, with the Secretary-General. He has taken the initiative in setting up a committee of jurists to investigate precisely the effect of Article 100. Whether that is being respected by the United States investigating committee I would prefer not to comment upon at this stage.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent this country, as a member State of the United Nations, is responsible for terms and conditions of employment of United Nations employees.

To the extent that the staff of the United Nations are appointed under regulations which were established by resolutions of the General Assembly.

As the Under-Secretary accepts some responsibility in these matters, can he say whether he made any protest at all against the action of a national State interrogating employees of this international organisation about their political opinions?

I have already answered a question on the issue of the United States investigating committee. I should prefer to say nothing more at the moment.

Is it not important that the convention on immunity for employees of the United Nations should be upheld, and is it not a regrettable fact that the American Congress have not yet ratified this convention although the United Nations staff are located in the United States? Will the Under-Secretary make representations directly to the American Government about ratification of that convention?

The question of action by Her Majesty's Government must depend upon the findings of the committee of jurists. I cannot say more than that at this stage.

Does the hon. Gentleman not think that, quite independently of the incident of this committee, it is most unsatisfactory that the United States should not have ratified the convention on immunity which everyone assumed they would accept when the United Nations headquarters was established in America?

Answer.

Can the hon. Gentleman explain why—the United Nations having been established for seven years—the question of the legal status of their employees should come up for legal investigation only now? Have not the United Nations taken any previous steps to make certain that their officials have proper immunity and, in connection with that, can the hon. Gentleman say why it is that the United States have not so far ratified the previous agreements on this matter?

I am really not responsible—and I do not think the right hon. Gentleman was holding me responsible—for the action of the United States in ratifying or failing to ratify any particular treaty or convention. That is why I did not give him an answer.

As to the first supplementary question of the hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. S. Silverman), the first initiative in this matter must rest with the Secretary-General. He has now taken that initiative in setting up a committee of jurists. No doubt they will present their findings in due course, and the attitude and action of Her Majesty's Government will depend upon those findings.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what instructions have been given to the United Kingdom delegate regarding the proposal for a Korean armistice, officially made by the Indian delegate to the United Nations on 19th November.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he has considered the recent official proposals of the Indian delegation to the United Nations designed to break the deadlock over a return of the prisoners of war and end the war in Korea; and if he will take immediate steps to support the plan which provides a favourable opportunity for establishing peace in Korea.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if Her Majesty's Government will encourage the most sympathetic consideration of the proposals by the Indian delegation at the United Nations for a possible solution of the prisoner of war problem in Korea and a basis for an early cessation of hostilities.

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary spoke in support of the Indian resolution in the Political Committee on 20th November and welcomed this initiative as a timely and constructive attempt to resolve the deadlock on the prisoner of war question, though he thought that some points required clarification.

Is the Minister aware that we welcome this initiative, that we are gratefully indebted to the Indian Government and that we greatly appreciate the action that the Foreign Secretary has taken?

Is the Under-Secretary aware that appreciation is by no means confined to members of the Labour Party, but is widespread? May I ask whether the suggested amendments are serious or are of a quite secondary nature and, therefore, whether it is possible that we may see, through this plan, an end of the tragedy in Korea?

I am sure that the whole House hopes that we shall see, through this plan, an end to the present war in Korea. As to the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary, the amendments or changes in the Indian proposal which my right hon. Friend would like to see in order to obtain a greater clarification, are in respect, first, of the position of the umpire—whether he should be a member of the Commission and Chairman of the Repatriation Commission—and second, in regard to the question of the disposal of prisoners of war who are not repatriated, how long they are to remain in the hands of the Commission and, later, how long they are to remain in the hands of those who will be discussing at the political conference the future settlement of Korea.

Can my hon. Friend confirm that the reported differences between the United Kingdom delegation and the United States delegation on the Indian proposals for resolving the deadlock have now been resolved?

I understand that Mr. Acheson will be speaking this afternoon in the United Nations. No doubt the attitude of the United States Government will become clear from his statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will recommend to the United Nations that the principle of no enforced repatriation in Korea, as supported by Her Majesty's Government, only applies to those prisoners of war who are in fear of their lives or their liberty and can give reasonable grounds for such fear.

The policy of the United Nations Command in Korea is that force should not be used to repatriate prisoners of war who are in genuine fear of their lives or liberty. Her Majesty's Government endorse that policy.

Is the Minister aware that some of my constituents are forcibly held in Korea, against their will, in the conscript armies there? Can he tell us whether an arrangement is to be made for them to be repatriated to this country?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what progress has been made in respect of the United Nations Disarmament Commission.

A full factual account of the work of the Commission is contained in the Commission's Report of 13th October, a copy of which is available in the Library. This Report is to be debated at the present session of the First Committee of the United Nations General Assembly.

Can the Minister say whether the Commission is likely to continue its efforts and whether it is likely to reach a definite conclusion?

I cannot say definitely whether the Commission is to reach a definite conclusion until we can be a little more certain whether we shall get the co-operation of Soviet and satellite Governments.

Will the hon. Gentleman place a copy of this Report in the Vote Office?

I cannot say what the proprieties of that would be, but copies are available in the Library. I will certainly look into the question of whether a copy can be put in the Vote Office. Perhaps it would have to be a White Paper but, unfortunately, as I had to reply to the right hon. Member for Derby, South (Mr. Noel-Baker), the cost of printing and publishing would be excessive.

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that the Foreign Secretary said in the last foreign affairs debate that he would urge that the Commission should draw up a draft disarmament convention, even if the Russians did not agree on all points? Will the hon. Gentleman urge again on our delegation that that should be our policy?

I think I have the words of my right hon. Friend. He said we would not wait beyond a certain point for the Russians to agree and that is certainly our policy.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that those members of the public whose reading is confined to the British Press are almost in total ignorance of what this Commission has been doing? Will he see whether a summary of the Report can be made available as a White Paper?

I would hesitate to publish a summary of any document as a White Paper, because I think the House generally feels that it should be published in toto, or not at all, but I will see what can be done to get publicity in the newspapers for this most important Report.

asked the hon. Member for Woolwich, West, as Chairman of the Kitchen Committee, what preparations are being made for providing meals and refreshments for Members of Parliament and their guests at the Palace of Westminster on Coronation day.

It is proposed to erect a frame tent, 380 ft. long and 25 ft. wide, on the terrace, running from the entrance to the Harcourt Room, to the fire hydrant beyond the Strangers' Bar, and to provide a buffet luncheon for approximately 2,500 persons, which will allow for three guests per Member. Breakfast will also be available for those who require it.

Can my hon. Friend make it clear that no charge will fall upon public funds for the refreshment or drinks of Members and their guests?

No charge will fall upon public funds either for drinks or for refreshments on that occasion.

asked the hon. Member for Woolwich, West, as Chairman of the Kitchen Committee, why the Dining Room was not open on the occasion of the late Sitting on 18th-19th November.

The Kitchen Committee do their best to obtain information about the likelihood of late Sittings in order that they make the necessary arrangements to meet the convenience of Members. Obviously, however, it is not possible to make an accurate forecast of the hour of rising on every occasion.

On the night in question, it was thought that the House would not be sitting unduly late and that the provision of bacon, sausage, egg, etc., in the Tea Room, which seems to have met the case on similar occasions, would be sufficient. However, as I understand that pairing was restricted on that night, the facilities available were inadequate.

Members will realise that there is a substantial saving by closing the Dining Room at the usual hour, but Members' convenience, of course, must be studied and in future, if there is any doubt as to the time at which the House will rise, the Dining Room will remain open.

I wish to express, on behalf of the Kitchen Committee, our regret that Members suffered inconvenience on the night in question and to assure the House that we shall do our best to avoid this happening in the future.

In order to improve the forecasts in future, will my hon. Friend co-opt the hon. and learned Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Bing) on to his Committee?

When late Sittings take place, during the coming winter, will the hon. Gentleman take more reasonable steps to avoid the excessive hours worked by the staff in the Tea Room and show greater consideration for the people who have to work so hard on those occasions?

I assure the House that the procedure adopted on the night of the 18th was the same as has been followed for many years.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that the confusion which arose on the night in question revealed once more how the co-ordinating Ministers are falling down on the job for which they are paid?