asked the Minister of Agriculture why the capital expenditure on colleges and institutions increased from £155,000 in 1951–52 to £400,000 in 1952–53.

This increased expenditure is required to meet the urgent need to modernise and expand research facilities as one of the basic means of increasing the output of food. There has been little building at most of the agricultural research institutes for many years and existing facilities are inadequate for the increased scientific staffs and for the work to be carried out.

Will the Minister, nevertheless, bear in mind the urgent need for economy all the time?

Will the Minister resist any demand from his back benchers to cut down on very important agricultural research?

Yes, Sir. I think that the economy referred to may be false economy in the long run. Some of our stations are world famous, especially those dealing with foot-and-mouth disease at Pirbright and at Rothamsted.

asked the Minister of Agriculture why his Department needs 79 in his legal department as compared with 65 in 1951–52.

The estimated increase in the staff of my legal department is due to a general increase in work falling to them. The reasons for this include additional work for the Forestry Commission on conveyancing and dedication schemes and increasing pressure to clear off arrears in debt collection under the Goods and Services Scheme.

The number of staff now in post is 77 compared with 60 on 1st April, 1951.

Can the Minister say whether any of this increased staff is required to do work in connection with prosecutions against members of the public?

No doubt some of their work may be for that purpose.

Does the Minister realise the growing resentment among the farming industry at the increased number of snoopers?

asked the Minister of Agriculture (1) the present levels of production of principal crops, wheat, barley, oats, potatoes, sugar beet, expressed as percentages of pre-war production; and the proposed production targets to be reached by 1955–56 for each crop, respectively;

(2) the present levels of production of livestock products, milk, eggs, beef and veal, mutton and lamb, pigmeat, expressed as percentages of pre-war production; and the proposed production targets to be reached by 1955–56 for each product, respectively.

The comparison of present and pre-war levels of production requires a table of figures and I will, if I may, circulate this in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

As for the second part of the Question, we do not intend to set detailed targets for 1955–56. As stated in the White Paper issued last May, the general objective for 1956 is to raise the net agricultural output to at least 60 per cent. above the pre-war level. Paragraph 12 of the White Paper sets out illustrations of more detailed objectives agreed as reasonable with the resources in prospect.

Is the Minister aware that, while it is important to have a general target, in 1947 the Labour Government set specific targets? As it is important that the agricultural community should have guidance, will he reconsider his decision?

No, Sir. That is where my hon. Friends are in conflict with the Opposition. We think that the best way is, as far as possible, to get the products in various areas according to the conditions in those areas and to leave it to the man on the spot.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the specific targets of the Labour Government took into account the needs of certain areas and that, in conjunction with the farmers and the county agricultural executive committees, the plan worked satisfactorily? Will he reconsider the matter?

I cannot reconsider it. This is a question of main policy. We hope to get results by this method.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the reasons for the recent decline in the number of regular workers employed in agriculture; and what steps he is taking to remedy this position.

The main reasons for the decline since 1949 have been the keen competition for labour from other industries, and since November, 1951, the call-up of young farm workers.

I am watching the position very closely and shall do my utmost, with the help of my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Labour to meet any serious difficulties as they arise.

Is the Minister aware that the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in a recent debate that the decline was attributed to mechanisation, and would he correct his colleague's misapprehension?

I cannot add to the answer that I have given.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the fowl population at the latest convenient date; and how this compares with the same date the year before.

According to the latest census the total number of fowl in Great Britain on 4th September this year was 59,113,000. The corresponding figure for last year was 59,287,000.

Is the Minister in a position to give the House any information about the alarming outbreak of fowl pest, which will have a very serious effect on our fowl population?

That is altogether another question. I cannot give any detailed information now, but I can assure the House that I am watching the situation very carefully indeed.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he has considered the Report of his Departmental Committee on Licences, in reference to the issue of licences under Section 7 of the Veterinary Surgeons Act; and what action he proposes to take in the matter to restrict the number of people permitted to give treatment to animals and perform minor operations.

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the Report of the Committee, under the chairmanship of the hon. Member for Derbyshire, South-East (Mr. Champion) set up to advise me on problems raised by certain applications for licences under Section 7 of the Veterinary Surgeons Act, 1948. I have accepted the recommendations of the Committee and am in touch with the animal welfare societies concerned with regard to their implementation particularly the recommendation relating to the employment of veterinary surgeons part-time.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that no action taken under his regulations will in any way place a restriction upon people at any time helping sick or injured animals or birds when it is within their means or power to do so?

I must have notice of that question.

Can the Minister explain the reason for the delay since the Report was made to him?

The Report was published some months ago and we have since had consultations with various bodies. The Report is now public property. I have accepted its recommendations, and there has not been any undue delay.

Might not the treatment of animals by unqualified people be eliminated if the Government established a national veterinary service which would enable the small farmer to obtain qualified services?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of Agriculture what acreage is idle covering the whole country, and in Leicestershire in particular; and why these idle acres are not put to agricultural uses.

There are no statistics readily available to show the acreage which is capable of agricultural production, but which is not in agricultural use at the present time. The hon. Member probably has in mind airfields and military camps no longer in active Service use. I am not aware that there is any significant neglect of food production on these sites.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of very large tracts of abandoned willow-growing land in the vicinity of Castle Donnington, which used to have a prosperous basket-weaving industry, and that these would make admirable grazing and poplar-growing areas? Will he find out why the county agricultural executive committees are not giving much more attention to such waste lands, which could be made to give our people the benefit of greater production?

I received the hon. Member's letter this morning. I will look into the matter and write him a full and detailed reply.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is the decrease in the tilled acreage during the past two years?

I cannot give an approximate figure.

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to survey all industrial areas, particularly those in the north-west and the north-east, to see if some of the land now lying idle under water or covered by pit-heaps can be restored for agricultural or tree-growing purposes, in view of the great inroads being made upon our agricultural land for airports and housing?

I am watching the situation in all parts of the country. Hon. Members will appreciate the difficulties of getting any figures which would be of help to the House.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the number of investigations undertaken by his inspectors into alleged infringements of Wages Board Orders since the Agricultural Wages Act, 1947, became operative; the amount of wages recovered; and the number of prosecutions involved.

During the five years ending 30th September last, 5,610 investigations into alleged infringements of the Agricultural Wages Acts were carried out by my inspectors and £71,254 3s. 9d. was recovered by way of arrears of wages. Prosecution was undertaken in 131 cases.

In view of those figures, is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that his staff of inspectors is adequate to the work?

Yes, Sir, I think so. Part of their work is to make test inspections, and during those inspections, which are carried out throughout the country, the proportion of cases of this sort is under 2 per cent.

Would it not be helpful if the agricultural workers joined their appropriate trade union organisation, which could safely look after their interests in this matter?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of Agriculture how many agricultural institute places are available to students within his area of responsibility; how many of these are vacant this year; and to what he attributes the reason for the vacancies.

Out of 1,930 places, 390 are vacant. Some of these vacancies are undoubtedly due to the call-up, but there may also be some lack of knowledge of the training offered at farm institutes, particularly in counties where institutes are new.

Will my right hon. Friend consult his colleagues to see whether deferment could be granted to enable the young agriculturist to take advantage of this very valuable course and to permit an increase in agricultural production?

Those consultations are now taking place.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether local authorities are cutting down grants for students to agricultural colleges?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Agriculture to amend the Agriculture Act, 1947, to bring it into line with Britain's undertaking given in the Declaration of Human Rights at the Assembly of the United Nations on 10th December, 1948, which states that no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

I am advised that the Agriculture Act, 1947, in no way conflicts with the Declaration of Human Rights of 10th December, 1948.

Does not my right hon. Friend realise that a Conservative Minister still wields what are, in effect, dictatorial powers, against which there is no appeal to an English judge and jury? Does he also realise that we shall continue our protests until such time as the historic rights of free Englishmen are restored to dispossessed farmers?

asked the Minister of Agriculture (1) if he will outline the principal functions performed by the provincial offices of his Department; and to what extent these functions have been increased over the past four years;

(2) why, during the past four years, the total number of staff employed in the provincial offices of his Department has been materially increased.

The principal functions of the provincial officers in my Department are to give specialist advice in the various branches of agricultural science and advice on estate management, land use and smallholdings. In the past four years, there has been some expansion of these functions. The increase in staff has been due to the requirements of the work arising out of these functions, but I have given instructions that there are to be no further increases in provincial office staff without my approval.

While accepting the Minister's reply, may I ask him to ensure that where possible there shall be a reduction in staff? May I also ask him to ensure that in the field of research there is no duplication of work and that the same tasks are not performed by industry, by the universities and by his own Department?

Yes, Sir. I think that is an important point, which I am watching all the time.

Has not the increase in staff been accompanied by a large increase in food production?

Yes, it has.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is now satisfied that the present regulations governing the transportation of horses in the United Kingdom provide adequate safeguards against cruelty; and that such regulations are fully and sufficiently enforced.

Yes, Sir, in respect of Great Britain. My responsibility does not extend to Northern Ireland.

Would my right hon. Friend watch this matter with great care, as it has given rise to considerable public concern?

Yes, Sir, certainly.

Is the Minister satisfied that he will be able to watch all the things he has promised to watch if he cuts down his staff, as suggested by some of his hon. Friends?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the fact that an alternative trap for the destruction of rabbits is now available, and of the cruelty involved in the use of the present gin-trap, he will arrange a date when the latter will be prohibited.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the considerations that have, up to this date, prevented him from forbidding the use of gin traps for snaring rabbits.

As I said in answer to a Question on 1st August, I have no power to prohibit the use of gin traps. Supplies of the new "Imber" trap have been delayed owing to a manufacturing difficulty, but are expected to be available early in the New Year for testing under working conditions in the Ministry's contract service. It will consequently be some time before we can tell how the new trap performs under everyday conditions.

Is the Minister aware that the gin trap has already been banned in six other European countries, and that there are at least 10 or 12 alternative methods of destroying rabbits? Can action be taken to prohibit this cruel and barbarous method of catching rabbits, which also catches other animals and causes great suffering?

Yes, Sir, but we must be certain that what we put in its place will do the job humanely. We must have these tests to see how this new trap will operate over a period of time.

Does the Minister's answer mean that by next spring at the latest we may expect action by him in this matter?

No, Sir, it does not mean that there will be action in the form of legislation. It means that I hope we shall have the results to go on. The reason I gave a lengthy answer today is because I implied in my answer on 1st August that these traps would be introduced by the autumn of this year. But that is impossible, owing to manufacturing difficulties, and I wished to make that clear to the House.

Since this question has been under consideration by my right hon. Friend's Department for a very long time, can he expedite the matter?

We are doing all we can to get on with it.

Will the N.U.R. be consulted about this? The "National Union of Rabbits" may have decided views on the subject.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will introduce legislation to prevent the breeding and rearing of ponies in the New Forest for the purpose of sale and subsequent slaughter for human consumption.

No, Sir. I do not think that this is necessary. There is no reason for thinking that New Forest ponies are, in general, bred and reared with the intention of selling them for slaughter.

Does the Minister realise that he gives the impression of being very complacent about this matter? Is he aware that there is widespread public feeling against this repulsive trade being furthered by the use of these common lands for the breeding and rearing of ponies? Will he at least see that un-weaned foals are not sold for this purpose?

There is no evidence to show that New Forest ponies are being bought for slaughter. Their numbers have to be kept down, and they are sold normally from time to time.

Is my right hon. Friend saying that the only New Forest ponies sold for slaughter are those which it is necessary to destroy to reduce the pony population? Is not he aware that there is this trade going on, which surely is of a repulsive nature?

If the number of ponies in the New Forest were not kept down there would be great suffering caused to other ponies owing to the shortage of winter keep.

Cannot the Minister keep down the pony population by other methods? Is he aware that I can give him the names of people who have had to buy unweaned foals to save them from getting into the hands of horse meat traders?

I do not think that that would meet the case.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is aware that the rations granted for goats are inadequate; that goats milk is urgently required by hospitals and ailing people; and if he will examine the position with a view to increasing the rations.

No, Sir. Rations for goats depend on the quantity of milk produced and are on much the same scale as for dairy cows. I have consulted my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, but he is not aware of any urgent unsatisfied demand for goats' milk as suggested.

Is the Minister aware that the Durham Society of Goat Keepers say that the rations are hopelessly inadequate at the present time? Does he agree that in the summer months a dry goat receives the same quantity of rations as a goat giving 10 to 15 lb. of milk a day? Will he therefore look at the matter again to see if he can encourage goat keepers who are trying to do a good job of work?

This point has been drawn to the attention of the Ministry on previous occasions, and the view has always been held that to grant further rations to goats would be to treat goats better than cows. But if the hon. Member has a particular case in mind to which he wishes to draw my attention I will investigate it.

asked the Minister of Agriculture what percentage of farms now have a piped water supply in the county of Stafford and in the United Kingdom as a whole.

I regret that this information is not available.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will be able to make the information available soon and if not, whether he is endeavouring to ensure that a fair share of raw materials are allocated for this important matter of supplying water and electricity, in view of the need for increased productivity in agriculture?

To obtain this information regularly would call for still further returns from the farmers, which I do not think would be justified. The answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question is, most certainly.

How can the Conservative Party claim that they are extending piped water supplies to farms to a greater degree than the Labour Party did if they have no returns?

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there are other parts of the country which have claims for a piped water supply?

asked the Minister of Agriculture his plans for intensified research into agricultural problems, particularly on the effect of the use of pesticides.

Agricultural research including research on pesticides is being intensified as far as economic conditions allow. For details of current work I would refer the hon. Member to the Agricultural Research Council's "Index of Agricultural Research in Progress," published by the Stationery Office.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the current view is that some of these compounds are absorbed by growing plants, and, therefore, that the use of some of them, like the phosphorus compounds, may be very dangerous to human beings, even in small amounts? Will he watch the whole matter carefully?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the average cost of destroying a grey squirrel in Hertfordshire and other counties where the agricultural executive committees pay in cartridges for the grey squirrels destroyed.

County agricultural executive committees do not actually pay in cartridges for grey squirrels destroyed, but they issue cartridges free to approved grey squirrel clubs. The average cost of destroying a grey squirrel in Hertfordshire last winter was about 6½d. I have no comparable figures for other counties.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if the Departmental committee reviewing foot-and-mouth disease policy has started to take evidence from farmers, veterinary surgeons and others; and whether the committee will investigate the policies pursued by other countries in Europe and South America.

Yes, Sir. The committee has already held nine meetings and is taking evidence from farmers, veterinary surgeons and others. It is investigating the policies adopted by European countries and countries on the American Continents.

Will members of the committee be able to visit places like Holland and Denmark, who have rather similar problems to our own?

Yes, Sir. I understand that they will visit various European countries, probably including France, Switzerland, Western Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, and, very likely, Argentina.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if, so as to ensure that more pullets are reared and egg production increased next autumn, he will arrange for poultry farmers to draw increased rations of good quality chick mash from January onwards.

I fear that increased poultry rations could at present be given only at the expense of other kinds of livestock, but I will certainly look into this suggestion.

Will my right hon. Friend make an announcement, if it can be a favourable one, before the New Year, so that hatcheries and small poultry producers will know that they can get extra food of the right kind in time for the rearing season next spring?

I will certainly let my decision on this matter be known at the earliest possible moment, and before the New Year.

Does that answer mean that the right hon. Gentleman will rely on the importation of foreign eggs in order to build up a reserve stock for next autumn?

It means nothing of the kind. My answer means exactly what it says.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the number of outbreaks of anthrax that have occurred during each of the last six months.

As the reply contains a table of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is my right hon. Friend not alarmed at the increase that has occurred in the outbreaks of anthrax during the last few months? Further, is it correct that farmers do not get compensation for animals that die as a result of anthrax?

I am certainly very concerned about the increase in this disease during the past year. Perhaps my hon. Friend will put down a Question in respect of the second part of his supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Agriculture (1) if he will trace the origin of the outbreaks of anthrax during the last six months;

(2) the results of recent research into the cause of anthrax and its prevention.

It is known that anthrax is caused by the specific organism bacillus anthracis. Research work has resulted in the production of satisfactory vaccine for the protection of livestock; this vaccine is being made available to veterinary surgeons.

The special inquiries into sources of infection and possible further safeguards, to which I referred in the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Mr. Hurd) on 30th October, are still in progress.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the serious increase in anthrax, especially among pigs, he will make anthrax vaccine more readily available to farmers.

I am arranging for the vaccine to be made available generally to veterinary surgeons for use at their discretion. It is not proposed to allow farmers to purchase the vaccine direct, since it is important that it should be administered under veterinary advice.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is aware of the recent increase in cases of anthrax; and if he is satisfied that all necessary precautions are being taken to prevent outbreaks of anthrax in livestock causing danger to human beings.

Yes, Sir. The main danger arises from contact with the blood or other infected material from animals which have died of anthrax. Elaborate precautions are taken to ensure the safe disposal of infected carcases and material.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his answer will give considerable satisfaction to a number of people who have been expressing anxiety on the subject?

asked the Minister of Agriculture the estimated additional sum involved by basing the tile and mole drainage grant on 50 per cent. of net cost, instead of the normal maximum.

The additional expenditure involved by this concession in a full financial year is estimated at £75,000.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that this alteration is necessary?

Yes, Sir, in view of the increased cost.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that money spent on draining land is probably the best investment that this country can make?

I agree with my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the number of cattle on agricultural holdings at the latest available date; and the number at the corresponding date last year.

The number of cattle in the United Kingdom in September, 1952, was 10,081,000, compared with 10,310,000 a year earlier.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that this continuing decline is very disturbing and must eventually affect beef production, and that it is time he did something drastic about it?

The decline is, for the most part, in yearlings, and must show the downward trend in calf rearing in the preceding year. Actually, there has been an increase of more than 2 per cent. in the number of calves, and there is evidence that during the summer this increase has been accelerated.

asked the Minister of Agriculture the estimated quantity of potatoes harvested in 1952; and how this compares with the quantity harvested in 1951.

According to present estimates, 7,300,000 tons. This compares with 8,284,000 tons in 1951.

Is the fall sufficient to indicate that we may have to contend with supply difficulties this year or next year?

As at present advised I think there is no reason to expect a shortage. Reports from counties show that the quality and condition of potato crops is fairly satisfactory and that in the main, there should be very little wastage.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that many people in the largest potato growing area of East Anglia are of the opinion that there is a general decline and that is likely to go on unless radical steps are taken to put it right?

asked the Minister of Agriculture what instructions he has given as to standards to be applied for qualification for the beef calf subsidy.

The standard I propose to apply is that prescribed in the draft calf subsidies scheme for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Instruction in the application of that standard by the officers who will inspect and certify calves for the subsidy is being given by means of practical demonstrations.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a livestock officer of his Department gave a demonstration recently in Cambridge, and that there is great concern among farmers in the Eastern area at the very high standard set because they think that the result will be that less meat will be produced rather than more?

The draft scheme has been laid before the House. Perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will raise that point when the scheme comes to be debated.

If my right hon. Friend finds that this scheme is not going as well as he expects will he reconsider it and perhaps issue fresh instructions as the months go by?

Yes, Sir.

Is it not surprising that agricultural production, as revealed in this last batch of Questions, is in inverse ratio to the subsidies paid to the agricultural industry?

asked the Minister of Agriculture how many forms are to be filled up to claim the calf subsidy; and why three officers were required to visit a farm, of which he has been informed, and inspect 10 heifer calves to establish qualification for this subsidy.

One application form. One of my livestock husbandry officers recently visited several farms in Durham in company with two newly appointed certifying officers whom he was training in judging the eligibility of calves for the subsidy. Normally, one officer only will visit farms to inspect and certify calves for the subsidy.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Mr. Hugill, of Wolsingham, is a life-long experienced farmer and is being penalised for producing and feeding good cattle? Will the Minister have another look at this matter and see whether something can be done about it? Would he also explain the Durham County Agricultural Committee's saying this:

"The Ministry's instructions are that where animals born in October, 1951, are concerned owners must produce documentary proof of date of birth."

What is meant by "documentary proof"?

I can say straight away that there has been no change of policy towards farmers who are producing good sheep and cattle.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether there has been any radical change in the standards required, and in the qualifications for the subsidy, for steer calves? Is he aware that a number of people who are rearing Friesian steer calves are very much afraid that they will be excluded from the subsidy entirely?

I take the opportunity of definitely informing the House that there has been no change.

I was not able to hear all the right hon. Gentleman's reply. Does he really mean that the bigger and better the cattle the greater the penalty for producing it?

No, Sir. This scheme will have to be worked on a commonsense basis. What we want to get at the end of the day is good beef cattle. The scheme has not actually started yet. The Order is now before the House and when it gets the approval of Parliament the scheme will be under way, and a lot of these fears will be found to be groundless.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will make a statement on the progress of recruiting for the Civil Defence services.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what progress is being made with recruiting for the Civil Defence service.

On 31st October, 1952, the number of volunteers in England and Wales was approximately: Civil Defence Corps, 222,000; Auxiliary Fire Service, 13,200; National Hospital Service Reserve, 27,200. The Civil Defence Corps has reached 48 per cent. of its provisional peace-time establishment and the Auxiliary Fire Service and the National Hospital Service Reserve 21 per cent. and 27 per cent.; the decrease in the National Hospital Service Reserve percentage since I answered a similar Question by my hon. Friend on 15th May reflects an increase of 20,000 in the target figure.

Since mid-summer there has been an encouraging upward trend in recruitment: the increase during the third quarter of 1952 was 14,835 compared with 9,298 in the third quarter of 1951 and the figure for October, 1952 (9,900) was nearly twice that of the preceding October. These figures do not include those engaged in Civil Defence in industry or in the special constabulary.

When will my right hon. and learned Friend be able to say whether the suggestions in a recent report are to be implemented by Her Majesty's Government? Will he bear in mind that the more people know the better they work, and will he give them all possible information about atomic dangers and risks?

The report came out on Monday and I have already said that I have accepted the recommendation to appoint controllers designate. At a meeting of local authorities this week I tried to indicate the latest position with regard to atomic matters after the Monte Bello experiment. I would add that the figures I have given relate only to England and Wales. The figure for the whole of the United Kingdom, taking into account the special constabulary, the staff of local authorities, and those in industry engaged on Civil Defence, must be over 400,000.

While that is no figure for complacency, it is no figure for despondency. I do not think that this country has ever made a greater effort in time of peace and I do not think any other country has made an equal effort. I hope it will continue.

Does the Home Secretary realise that there are many people who think that it is more important to recruit to the Police Force than it is to emphasise recruitment to Civil Defence?

I hope we shall get recruits to both; and any assistance which the hon. Gentleman can give me in recruiting to the Police Force I shall be glad to receive.

Is the Minister aware that the severe age restrictions are possibly preventing willing men from entering both the Civil Defence and the Auxiliary Police Services, and that possibly those restrictions on the bottom age limit might be amended?

There are various increases and improvements with regard to that, but I will willingly take into account any suggestions anyone may make.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that last year some enjoyable competitions were organised in some parts of the country between various towns, but that this year, apparently, they are not being organised? They were very welcome, and if the Home Secretary could resurrect them it would be helpful.

I will look into that suggestion.

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that the meeting to which he referred would have been more successful if the platform had been more representative of the people interested in Civil Defence, and if representatives of experts on this side had been on the platform instead of having a completely party organisation?

With respect, I do not think that that is quite a fair reflection of the idea. The idea was to tell local authority representatives what the various Departments required of them. All the meetings I have addressed have been of a completely non-party character and I hope that will continue. The general policy on Civil Defence, and support for it, has been entirely irrespective of party differences.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department on what date the new winter closing hours for shops come into force.

The statutory closing hours for shops are now the same throughout the year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the increase in the number of deaths from accidents which have occurred in the home and in residential institutions, he will reconsider his decision with regard to payments of the grant to the Home Safety Committee of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents.

As I have already announced, I have decided after further consideration to make a further payment of £1,500 during the next financial year as the fifth and final instalment of the grant which it was decided in 1948 to make for the purpose of assisting the Society in developing their home safety work.

Is the Minister aware that there are now, on an average, 20 deaths a day from home accidents as compared with six fewer on the roads and 15 fewer at work? Is he not also aware that a million people go into hospital each year as a result of accidents which occur at home; and does he not think it is niggardly to stop this grant, which is of considerable importance in developing publicity and which has been successful in giving great assistance in the matter hitherto?

I have just said that I am not stopping the grant but will pay it for another year. I would point out to the hon. Gentleman that there is a provision in the Local Government Act, 1948, Section 136, which gives certain general powers to local authorities to contribute towards the expenses of such organisations with the consent of the Minister of Housing and Local Government. I am empowered to say that my right hon. Friend is always prepared to consider any application for consent under the Section.

But does not the Minister know that the Minister of Housing and Local Government is very niggardly himself and that we cannot get any satisfaction from him here? How does he expect his right hon. Friend to be able to deal with a position of this description? Does he not think—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]. This is an important matter. Does not the Minister think he ought to look into the matter again and see that not £1,500 but many thousands are given for this purpose?

I am always prepared to look into any matter which the hon. Gentleman suggests, but I did not recognise his description of my right hon. Friend.

Is it not possible that the Royal Society, in the past, has felt itself somewhat inhibited from making forthright recommendations on the subject of accidents simply by virtue of the fact that it has received money from a Government Department?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to amend the Firearms Act, 1937, so that the maximum prison sentence for anyone purchasing or possessing firearms or ammunition without a firearms certificate shall include a longer prison sentence than the present one of three months.

No, Sir. The purchase or possession without a certificate of firearms or ammunition to which Part I of the Firearms Act, 1937, applies is a serious matter, but I have no reason to regard as inadequate the maximum penalties which may be inflicted for this offence.

Is not the Minister aware that there is a considerable increase in crimes which involve the use of these weapons? Will he not consider imposing a higher penalty on some kinds of the weapons which are referred to in the Act, if not on others, so that people shall be afraid of carrying arms of that sort and thereby be prevented from using them?

I am quite prepared to consider the point, but I remind the hon. Gentleman that Sections 22 and 23 of the Firearms Act prescribe penalties of up to 14 years' imprisonment for convition on indictment for the possession of firearms with intent to injure or for their use and possession to resist arrest, and that Section 23 of the Larceny Act provides for a life sentence for the offence of armed robbery.

Would not my right hon. and learned Friend agree that this also involves the question of whose finger is on the trigger?

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider this again? Is he not aware, with all his vast experience of legal procedure, that there is considerable difficulty in proving intent in these cases, and does he not think that those difficulties should be removed?

I am always prepared to consider it, and, as I said. I shall.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has studied the case of a child in the Midlands, particulars of which have been sent to him, accidentally shot dead by a companion while reproducing a scene of violence observed in an American-style comic; and whether, arising out of this case, he will set up a Departmental committee of educationists, magistrates and child psychologists to study the effect of such comics on children, with a view to making recommendations for the benefit of parents and teachers.

Yes, Sir. I have studied the case and I find that the children in question were not imitating a story they had read in an American-style comic. I have carefully considered the hon. Member's suggestion in consultation with my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Education, and I am not satisfied that the creation of a committee as proposed would achieve the end the hon. Member has in view.

Whatever the interpretation of this particular case—and there may be other interpretations than that which the Home Secretary has given—is it not now generally established that these publications feed the imagination of children? Do they not tend to poison the minds of many young children? Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman not aware that many people, irrespective of party, are beginning to believe that his Department are showing a supine and complacent attitude to this very grave problem?

I cannot be responsible for views held. In the case in question, as far as the game was consciously based on any source, it seems to have been derived from confused recollections of a harmless British comic and a British Broadcasting Corporation programme.

The hon. Gentleman's second point is a very serious one. I have come to the view that reading is primarily a matter for parents, and that parents ought to deal with it. It is a matter for parental discipline and for public opinion, and I want everyone's help on it.

While I agree that this is primarily a matter for parents and teachers, is it not precisely the purpose of the Question to show that the Home Office has a responsibility to give guidance to parents and teachers? Unless some agency is set up for so doing, how can that guidance properly be given?

I can only say that it is a difficult point. There are two different schools of thought. But I shall willingly consider anything that the hon. Gentleman puts forward as a practical proposition.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend consider setting up a Departmental committee of cranks to investigate the effects upon children of nursery rhymes such as "Ding Dong Dell"?

"Mother Goose"?

Would not the Home Secretary agree that it is quite impossible for parents to exercise control over the reading of adolescents? Will he therefore look at the matter again?

I will look at it.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman explain how it is possible to reconcile the strong police action which is often taken, and quite rightly taken, in the case of alleged obscene literature, with the refusal to take any action whatever with regard to this mischievous rubbish, which does incalculably more harm?

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman, even impliedly, supports the action that he has described. As he knows very well there is a long course of precedents on that matter which make the law relatively easy to carry into effect. I have studied the legislation of other countries, and one meets great difficulties when trying to legislate on this point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been drawn to the public sale of imitation weapons which are capable of being converted into lethal arms; and what action he is taking to prevent this stimulus to violence.

I am aware there is some public anxiety about the sales of certain types of toy. As I said in reply to my hon. Friend, the Member for Orpington (Sir W. Smithers) on 11th November, any proposal to prohibit their sale raises considerable difficulties, but I am carefully examining the matter.

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that these potential weapons are certainly not playthings, and would he not, meanwhile, give guidance to the public by declaring their sale as being contrary to public policy?

I have had an admirable voluntary response from the trade on this matter, and I think that the sales of a great number of these things have been greatly reduced; but I am quite unrepentant in the view that to prevent a small boy from having a toy pistol is nonsense.

Is the Home Secretary aware that my hon. Friend the Member for Willesden, West (Mr. Viant) is going to introduce a Private Bill to deal with this matter after Christmas? If the right hon. and learned Gentleman cannot find time to deal with it himself, will he give general blessing to the objects of the Bill?

I am quite prepared to consider it.

Does the term "imitation weapons" include the Motions of censure now standing on the Order Paper?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of the concern at the small percentage of applicants for appointments to the Metropolitan Police force that are accepted at a time when more police are urgently required; and whether he is satisfied that the standard set is reasonable to allow for the necessary recruits to be obtained.

While it continues to be a matter of concern that not enough recruits to the Metropolitan Police force are coming forward, the Commissioner of Police considers that the standards for entry which have already been lowered to meet the shortage of manpower since the war could not be further lowered without detriment to the force.