asked the Minister of Labour what exceptions there are to the National Service call-up to the Armed Forces.

Apart from the special classes of persons listed in the First Schedule to the National Service Act, 1948, no young man of military age is excepted from liability to National Service. Extended deferment is, however, granted in the national interest to men employed in certain coalmining occupations, to regular agricultural workers born before 1933, to merchant seamen, to fishermen who are members of the Royal Naval Reserve (Patrol Service), and to a very few highly qualified scientists and engineers engaged on certain projects of the first importance and urgency.

Such men are only protected from call-up while engaged on the work in question, and if they leave their employment before reaching the age of 26 they become available for call-up. All other deferments are for a limited period, at the end of which the men are required, if medically fit, to carry out their National Service obligations.

Would my right hon. and learned Friend not agree that we in this country can ill afford the luxury, both in the case of the Exchequer and of the time of the Services, of training men for a considerable time when, in many cases, they will not, in any circumstances, and quite rightly, be required to serve during an emergency?

Can the Minister say what evidence he has that people who are deferred avoid the call-up when it actually comes?

If I may first reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury (Mr. Langford-Holt), I appreciate the necessity of not wasting manpower and I shall endeavour so to administer my job as to avoid that. So far as possible, there is no escape by protracted deferment.

In reply to the second question, I would say that agricultural workers, who are very much concerned with some deferment, have not reached the age at which we can possibly say they have escaped it. With regard to deferment for educational purposes, steps are taken to see that call-up is not avoided.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the facts of the case of Mr. Pearce, 24, King's Road, Reading, details of which have been sent to him, whose application for postponement of call-up on compassionate grounds has been rejected; and if he will now exercise his discretion and refer this case to the umpire.

I have considered this case very carefully, but I can find no grounds for making an appeal to the umpire against the unanimous decision of the Military Service (Hardship) Committee.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the grounds on which this young man originally got a compassionate discharge from his call-up were the mortal and incurable diseases of his parents, and as those circumstances clearly have not altered except for the worse in the meanwhile, how can it be that grounds which were originally found to be sufficient for compassionate discharge are now found to be insufficient for a compassionate deferment?

My hon. Friend will be aware that so far as my jurisdiction is concerned I cannot exempt a man permanently. I can only, on the ground of hardship, postpone his call-up or re-call, as the case may be, to enable him to make other arrangements.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the fact that a large and growing number of men performing National Service are wasting their time after 12 months; and if he will take immediate action to halve the present period of service.

The answer to both parts of the Question is, "No, Sir."

Is the Minister aware that a growing number of members of the Forces are of the opinion that having done 12 months' service they are largely wasting their time? I think that this is a matter which ought to be looked into, and that a reduction of military service should take place before long.

Why does the Minister give a negative reply to this Question, in view of the fact that only this week, in reply to a written Question, the Secretary of State for War stated that at a large camp in the North of England 10 per cent. of the National Servicemen were acting as officers' servants?

I have answered the Question to the best of my ability. According to such information as I have, there is not a lot of waste of time after the 12 months. I have some reason to know that myself.

Is it not a fact that a large number of these National Service men are giving valuable service to this country in Korea and Malaya?

indicated assent.

Is the Minister aware that the present Prime Minister and all who sit on the benches opposite talked for six years about setting the people free, and does he not think that so long as there is two years' conscription in this country all that talk of setting the people free was humbug on their part?

asked the Minister of Labour if Her Majesty's Government will abolish conscription in 1953 and encourage voluntary service by granting adequate pay and conditions.

With regard to the first part of the Question I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave him on 18th November. The suggestion made in the last part of the Question has already been carried out.

Is this not a most important matter in view of the fact that National Service legislation comes to an end in 1953, and will the right hon. and learned Gentleman not agree that the Government might give very serious consideration to this matter now?

Will the Minister take an opportunity of giving considerable advance notice of any change, so that the young people may make their arrangements accordingly and industrialists who now complain of the loss of manpower may readjust their plans?

I said on the occasion to which I have drawn attention that I would give notice as early as I could.

Cannot the right hon. and learned Gentleman say when the review of the National Service Act is to take place? Is he not aware that it has been established that men can be trained in six months and do not require any further training; and does he not also know that when his party were on this side of the House their policy was a six months' period of conscription. recruitment for the Regular Army and increased rates of pay? Why is that not being carried out now?

I think there is no question at all that there is a need for these men until and unless our commitments are reduced. As the matter stands at present, they are required.

What have commitments to do with it?

It has to do with the commitments; indeed, it has.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will include on the Military Service (Hardship) committees a representative of smallholders in all areas where smallholders may be liable for call-up under the National Service Act.

No, Sir. These committees decide applications for post-ponement of call-up according to principles of general application laid down in Regulations, and the members of the committee, other than the chairman, called to a particular sitting are selected from a panel without regard to the occupations of the applicants whose cases are to be heard.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that there is particular hardship in the case of young men, who have or who are about to have a smallholding, in view of the fact that the economics of a smallholding do not allow them to hire alternative labour to work for them while they are away. Will he ask the hardship committees to take particular notice of these cases if representatives of the smallholders cannot be included on these committees, because we on this side of the House know that many cases of hardship are involved?

There may be some confusion between postponement on hardship grounds and deferment. If my hon. and gallant Friend is referring to deferment, I will see whether anything can be done.

asked the Minister of Labour how many seriously disabled persons, eligible, and suitable for employment at the Remploy factory, Cleator Moor, are awaiting employment; and the reasons for their non-employment thereat.

The number of unemployed registered disabled persons eligible for consideration for employment in the Cleator Moor Remploy factory was 37 at 15th September, 1952, although they are not necessarily all suitable for jobs which may become available in the factory.

I am informed by the company that six will be taken on shortly. The present factory will then be fully manned.

asked the Minister of Labour the position of the building of the new factory at Cleator Moor for Remploy, Ltd.

I understand that Remploy, Ltd. are now preparing plans for a new factory to be built as soon as possible in the next financial year, to replace the present unsatisfactory building.

Is the Minister aware that in February he said that this matter was to be reconsidered at the end of the year? Is he also aware that the plans have already been prepared and, I understand, passed, and the site prepared and everything, by the Cumberland development authority? What is preventing the work on this factory going on?

As I said, we have made some provision for this factory in the next financial year, and the answer I gave was after consideration of the communications of the Remploy factory itself, and to the best of my knowledge they are correct.

By "the next financial year" does the right hon. and learned Gentleman mean in April of next year—or when does the next financial year commence?

I did mean April.

asked the Minister of Labour when he expects to be able sub-stantially to increase the number of disabled persons employed in Remploy factories in the North-East Development Area.

Until Remploy, Ltd., have consolidated their trading position, recruitment for all their factories will be limited mainly to replacement of wastage through various causes. It is unlikely that there will be any substantial increase in the number employed in the North-East Development Area.

While fully realising the right hon. and learned Gentleman's sympathetic interest in this matter, may I ask him whether he appreciates that in the heavy industrial areas there is a high incidence of disabled people, and that it is widely felt that these factories could and ought to provide employment for more disabled workers?

The figure I am given for those who might be helped in this way is 703, 521 of whom are in 10 Remploy factories in the area. The estimated capacity of those factories is 615. That will show the hon. Gentleman the size of the problem.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that it has been held, in the case of Parvin v. Morton Machine Company Limited, that machines which are being made, repaired, or adapted for sale, are not machinery or plant within the meaning of the Factories Act, 1937; and whether he will take steps to introduce legislation to rectify the position so that Sections 14 (1), 16, and 20 of that Act, which relate to the fencing of machinery and the cleaning of it by women and young persons, shall apply to such machinery.

As was pointed out in the Court of Session, the application of the particular Sections mentioned to machinery which is being made, repaired, or altered and is not part of the factory equipment would involve serious practical difficulties.

I do not, however, understand the decision in Parvin's case to imply that appropriate statutory precautions in connection with such manufacture, repair or alteration cannot be required under the Factories Acts.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman look further into this matter, because already, as I understand, in Leicester and other places compensation is being refused to people who have sustained injuries in consequence of machinery not coming within the terms referred to in court, which is creating a very anomalous and serious position, particularly for those who are compelled by employers to work on that kind of machinery?

The difficulties, which the hon. Gentleman will remember were pointed out by Lord Jameson in the Court of Session, are there, but Section 60 of the Factories Act, 1937, enables special regulations to be made, and that would not be prevented by anything that has been said in Parvin's case. The point is whether it is appropriate to make such regulations, and in the light of the report I have had from my Chief Inspector of Factories I doubt whether it is possible.

Does the Minister appreciate that this decision has caused considerable dismay to the trade unions in the engineering industry, and is completely contrary to anything they had understood with regard to the law; and will he take it from me that I have been requested, particularly by the Amalgamated Engineering Union, who have nearly 900,000 members interested— [HON. MEMBERS: Oh."] I wish hon. Gentlemen opposite would not interrupt when I am asking a very important question. Will the Minister bear in mind the extreme dismay and perturbation caused in engineering circles by this and give anxious attention to it, and possibly make a statement at an early date?

I appreciate that there are those who are worried about there being no cover in these particular circumstances, but I would point out that the courts and judges took the same view. I would like both hon. Gentlemen to consider that powers under Section 60 of the Factories Act do exist to cover a case like this. If they will bring any matter to my attention about which they consider I ought to make a regulation, I will bear it in mind.

In view of the unsatisfactory reply, I shall have to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Minister of Labour how many unemployed, part-time and full-time, were registered at the Bradford Employment Exchange for the week ended 29th November, 1952; and the comparative figures for the same period last year.

One thousand four hundred and eighty-two wholly unemployed and 421 temporarily stopped at 10th November, 1952, the latest date for which figures are available. The corresponding figures at 12th November, 1951, were 1,172 and 1,666, respectively.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that 500 discharges have taken place in recent weeks in the motor industry; that comparative figures prove that the number has gone up; and will he look into this matter more seriously?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I did look at it seriously, but I will do so again.

asked the Minister of Labour the total figure, to the latest date, of unemployment in Scotland, stating in which counties and cities the percentage is heaviest; and what percentage the overall figure bears to that of England.

Seventy-two thousand one hundred and thirty-five or 3.4 per cent. at 10th November. The counties with the highest percentages of unemployment were Zetland, covered by Lerwick Employment Exchange, 15.8 per cent.; Bute, covered by Rothesay Employment Exchange, 14.3 per cent.; and Ross and Cromarty, covered by Invergordon, Stornoway and Tain Employment Exchanges, 11.6 per cent. Of the four cities, Glasgow had the highest percentage, 3.8 per cent.

The unemployment percentage for England in November corresponding to the percentage of 3.4 for Scotland was 1.7.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that these figures are likely to be higher; that January always provides the highest figure of any month in the year in Scotland; and could he indicate what action he is taking to ensure some reduction of unemployment in Scotland?

The hon. Lady will understand that my task is rather to see that we find work for people, so far as we can, through the employment exchanges, and that I shall endeavour to do.

Is it not a fact that a large number of Scotsmen with very good sense have come to this country for their employment?

Is the Minister aware that most Scots people want to work near their own home, and would he consult the Secretary of State for Scotland to see whether something more could be done with a view to attracting industries to Scotland? There is a suspicion in Scotland that the President of the Board of Trade and the Minister of Supply are not too enthusiastic about responding to the right hon. and learned Gentleman's request for more work in Scotland.

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will not include me among those who do not take this into account. I will consult on this with my right hon. Friends.

On a point of order. Was the remark that people come to this place for personal employment not a reflection on you, Mr. Speaker?

I can see nothing derogative in the reflection.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) how many employment exchanges there are in Scotland; how many of these exchanges record a rate of unemployment of more than 20 per cent., 10 per cent. to 20 per cent., 5 per cent. to 10 per cent., 3 per cent. to 5 per cent., and under 3 per cent., respectively, on the latest date for which figures are available; and what are the corresponding figures for the last two years;

(2) in which areas of Scotland the incidence of unemployment is heaviest among women and girls under 18 years of age, respectively.

There are 212 employment exchanges and youth employment offices in Scotland. I regret that it is not possible to undertake the very large amount of work involved in computing percentage rates of unemployment for all these offices. The numbers of unemployed persons on the registers of each employment exchange are, however, available and I will send the hon. Member a table giving the figures for November, 1950, 1951 and 1952.

Can the Minister say how many employment exchanges have an unemployment figure of more than 20 per cent.? Is he aware that the unemployment figure which he gave in answer to a previous Question shows an increase of about 4,000 for last month; and in view of the fact that unemployment in Scotland is consistently higher than in the rest of Britain, will he give an undertaking that he will impress upon the Government the need for extra special measures in Scotland to remedy that situation?

I am aware of the disparity to which the hon. Member refers, and I will do what I can to combat it. As to the percentage, the difficulty is that without undue work I cannot get the top figures from all these exchanges in order to express the figure as a percentage.

Can the Minister say what special action he has in view for dealing with the problem in Scotland?

In my Department I have no special means apart from the means which I try to employ everywhere. Where we find employment, I try to find the workers to fill the posts.

asked the Minister of Labour what effects the recently-announced reduction in the arms programme will have on employment in Scotland.

The full effects of the changes in the defence programme cannot be judged until the details have been worked out, but as far as can be seen there is not likely to be any reduction in the total numbers employed in Scotland on that account. Certain Scottish factories engaged on main contracts will still need to take on more labour.

Does that answer mean that the Minister is now giving us an assurance that, as a result of the reduction in the armaments programme, there will be no increase of unemployment in Scotland over the next 12 months or two years?

When the hon. Gentleman sees my answer be will see that, so far as can be judged at present, the total number of employed people will not be reduced by this change in the armaments programme.

May I take it that the Prime Minister's statement to the effect that there would be local difficulties does not apply to Scotland?

asked the Minister of Labour the terms of reference to the committee proposed to be set up to consider the claims of disabled persons; and to give due consideration to the plight and handicap of haemophiliacs.

asked the Minister of Labour when he expects to be able to publish the full terms of reference of the inquiry into the employment of disabled persons; and how soon he anticipates that the committee will begin work.

asked the Minister of Labour when he expects to announce the composition of the proposed committee on the employment of the disabled.

asked the Minister of Labour the composition and the terms of reference of the committee which is to inquire into the position of disabled persons and their employment.

I hope to be able to make an announcement early in the New Year.

That does not cover the latter part of my Question, which concerns the handicap of haemophilia. As haemophiliacs in Britain are just nobody's bairns, would the right hon. and learned Gentleman give them special consideration in the terms of reference to the new committee?

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for drawing my attention, as she has done before, to some paper which she has put before me about this matter. I will see to it that it is put before the committee.

What are the dimensions of this problem?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the necessity of appointing labour attachés in Yugoslavia and Turkey; and with what result.

I keep the need for posts of labour attachés under review jointly with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The possibility of appointments to the two posts mentioned will be kept in mind for consideration when financial conditions permit.

Does the Minister appreciate the very significant developments in both countries, particularly in trade union and labour matters; and would it not be a good thing to have in these countries men or women skilled and knowledgeable in trade union and labour matters to advise the Foreign Office, particularly in view of the new developments that are taking place?

I am aware of the field for work, and as soon as limitations of economy are removed from me I will bear that suggestion in mind.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of unemployed men, women, boys and girls in the North-East Development Area in the years 1948, 1949, 1950 and 1951.

As the reply includes a table of figures I will, if I may, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Since the right hon. and learned Gentleman is in possession of those figures, would he be kind enough to give us an idea of the unemployment in the North-East area? Can he say whether it is increasing or decreasing?

I hope the hon. Gentleman will excuse me from doing more than saying that if he looks at these figures he will find that from 1948 the figure has varied from 28,000, up to 31,000, back to 24,000, and is now 26,500.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that 70 mothers have been informed that they must remove their children from the Willesden day nurseries; that most of these mothers are engaged in work for which there is a shortage of labour; and what steps he is taking to make good this shortage.

If these women withdraw from their present employment, no special difficulties are anticipated in providing workers to replace them. Employers should notify their vacancies to the employment exchange.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that this Question simply pinpoints what will become a big issue in Middlesex? Would he not nudge his right hon. Friend sitting on his left, the Minister of Health, who passed the buck to the Middlesex County

On a point of order. As this information is published regularly every month in the "Ministry of Labour Gazette," why was this Question allowed on the Order Paper?

Mr. Speaker, are you not aware that the hon. Member for Croydon, East (Sir H. Williams) is often querying the authority of the Table and of yourself in admitting Questions? Is it not a fact that if the Table and yourself admit Questions they must of necessity be in order?

Would it not be possible to appoint the hon. Member for Croydon, East (Sir H. Williams) Clerk of the Table?

I take note of that, but I think the hon. Member realises that the buck was not really, if I may say so, on my plate.

May I ask the Minister if he would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to send me the list of female vacancies in Middlesex, as he promised me last week, and whether that list will not show that there is a considerable number of vacancies within the county? Does he not think that it is treating this matter rather lightly when he says that it really does not matter if these people have to give up their employment, although there is dislocation for the employees and the industries which they have to leave?

I only intended to say that we were in a position to provide workers to replace these people, and that that really was my consideration in the matter.

asked the Minister of Labour to publish in HANSARD a table of figures and trades showing the unemployment figures in Liverpool, separately, and the area covered by the Merseyside Development Area for the latest obtainable date; and the figures for the same date in 1949, 1950 and 1951.

asked the Minister of Labour the number of workers unemployed on Merseyside; the number in the corresponding period in 1951; and what steps he is taking to ensure their full employment.

A total of 26,119 persons were registered as unemployed on 10th November, 1952, compared with 17,612 on 12th November, 1951. The employment exchanges are doing all they can to place these workers in other employment and, as the hon. Member no doubt knows, a number of new factories

Yes, Sir.

As the unemployment situation in Liverpool is very difficult and the figures are readily available, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman make arrangements for the figures to be sent every three months to hon. Members representing the Merseyside area?

I will look into that suggestion sympathetically.

Is the Minister aware of the growing concern on Merseyside arising from this very large increase in unemployment in the last 12 months? Is he aware that the figure is now approaching 6 per cent., which is about three times the average for the rest of England? Will he not consult his colleagues at the Board of Trade and the Treasury in order to speed up the development of new factories, particularly on the Birkenhead side of the Mersey?

The figure which I received most recently was 4.4 per cent., but I agree that that is much higher than one wants to see and we are doing all we can to get these new factories and extensions to factories. I will endeavour to continue that course.

asked the Minister of Labour to make a further statement on the dispute between the National Society of Operative Printers and Assistants and the firm of D. C. Thomson.

On a point of order. Is it in order, Sir, for an hon. Member, without disclosing his interest, to put on the Order Paper a Question relating to a rival newspaper?

I was not aware that there was any concealment of interest here.

The answer to the Question is as follows: I regret that it has still not been possible to arrive at a mutually acceptable arrangement regarding the re-instatement by the firm of any of the men who came out on strike at Glasgow last April. I am considering whether there is any further way by which an amicable solution of this outstanding question may be sought.

While thanking the Minister for his reply and appreciating the efforts that he has made, may I ask if he is aware that the 77 men will have been out on strike for eight months tomorrow. [HON. MEMBERS: "They were locked out."] Can the Minister tell the House what action has been taken by the Prime Minister, following his meetings with the Trades Union Congress? If the Minister has no legal authority to operate in this matter, will he use his moral authority to tell the public plainly that the unions concerned in this case have acted with good citizenship and that the firm has acted with stupid obstinacy?

The steps which have been taken have been to make approaches which I do not want to specify at this stage because some are still continuing, but it has been done through me and my Department on the instructions of the Prime Minister, and I am still hoping to produce a better result.

Is it not time that this grim old warrior got some of the milk of human kindness on the approach of Christmas and remembered that the homes of 77 families are being jeopardised because of his stupid obstinacy in adhering to practices which are 100 years out of date?

We ought to bear in mind that perhaps the principal matter which was in dispute in those days was the question whether a man should be called upon to give an undertaking not to belong to a union, and on that, at any rate, one can say that we have succeeded in getting a different result. One should bear that in mind, because it was the main point in dispute.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend take advantage of the Christmas season to try to bring an end to the vendetta which is being waged against the "Dundee Advertiser" by rival newspapers and by political opponents, right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite who cannot conceal their hatred of a free and independent Scottish newspaper and its proprietors?

asked the Minister of Labour the number of registered unemployed at the latest convenient stated date; and how this compares with the previous two months and with similar dates in 1951, nationally and for the county borough of West Ham, respectively.

As the reply includes a table of figures, I will, if I may, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Are the general figures up or down? If they are down we shall be very pleased to hear it, but if they are up, will he give the reasons for the increase and say what action the Government intend to take to reduce the number of unemployed?

The figures for England as a whole are already known to the hon. Member; anyhow, they have been published. The figures for West Ham show a tendency much the same as the general figures; they have risen slightly during the last month.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that a fortnight ago 268 workers were put off as redundant at Messrs. Fowler & Company, of Hunslet Road, Leeds; that last week 42 workers were discharged at Messrs. David Brown, Tractors, at Yardley; and whether he will give consideration to this growing unemployment in the Leeds district with a view to finding these men alternative employment in the area.

I am aware of the redundances to which the hon. Member refers and am glad to say that the majority of the workers who registered at the exchanges mainly concerned are now in other employment.

There are reasonable prospects of finding alternative work for the remainder and the employment exchanges will continue to do everything possible to help them.

As there is a belief in engineering circles in the City of Leeds that there is a degree of recession in the industry, can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether the unemployment figures compare favourably or unfavourably with those in comparable cities?

The only figure I have immediately available which gives a comparison is the following: the wholly unemployed and temporarily stopped workers registered at Leeds, Armley, Stanningley and Horsforth local offices on 10th November represented 1.9 per cent. of the total insured employees compared with 2 per cent. for the country as a whole.

asked the Minister of Labour why the application of the boy from Embo, in the county of Sutherland, whose name is known to him, for assistance to train while living away from home in Glasgow, made on 17th October, still remains undecided while the important shipbuilding and engineering firm who are prepared to accept him as an apprentice are deprived of his services and the boy of his training.

The delay was due to difficulty in arranging the necessary interview, which finally took place on 9th December, after four previous attempts had failed for various reasons, including weather, illness of the boy and the distance involved. I understand that the conditions of the Special Aptitudes Scheme are not fulfilled and I regret, therefore, that the application must fail.

As the distance between Embo and Wick or Thurso is very short, is it unreasonable to expect that a greater effort might have been made to interview the boy? Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the boy and his parents turned up for an arranged meeting but that the appointment was not kept by the officials?

No, Sir, I did not know that, but I did know that one appointment could not be kept because of the boy's illness.

asked the Minister of Labour why it was necessary for a representative from the National Institute of Houseworkers Centre, Bridge of Allan, to make the expensive journey to Wick to discuss with the Director of Education the placing of a girl from that county; if this is the regular practice; and why matters of this kind are not dealt with by letter or telephone.

My hon. Friend must be under some misapprehension as I am assured by the Institute that no such journey for the purpose suggested has been undertaken.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend accept my assurance that I have in my hand a letter dated 9th December from the Director of Education in Caithness, which I will pass to him, stating:

"The question of Uplands was raised on the occasion of a visit from their representative in connection with the placing of a girl from this county"?

The only occasion I have heard of was in March this year, which was a visit for that purpose and other purposes as well.

asked the Minister of Labour what objections he has received from unions catering for dock workers to the recently-announced dock workers release scheme; and how many dock workers have claimed their release under this scheme at the latest convenient stated date nationally and in the Royal group of docks, respectively.

No representations about the release scheme have been made to me by any of the unions concerned.

I should prefer to wait until the scheme has been running a little longer before attempting to assess the response to it.

Many dockers have been out of work for some months now. Surely there has been adequate time, in view of the weeks that have gone by, for the right hon. and learned Gentleman to let us know how many have availed themselves of this scheme. Can he give us some information, even if it is only on an interim basis?

The House will realise that it is not my scheme but the scheme of the Dock Labour Board. It is the Board's view that they should have a little longer in order to see how the scheme works. I know that more than 100 have availed themselves of the scheme already.

asked the Minister of Labour how far dock workers who elect to have their names entered on the dormant section of the workers' register will be subject to the Notification of Vacancies Order.

Dock workers who have been granted temporary release under the recently-announced scheme will, like other workers, be free to seek and obtain their own employment, but employers who wish to engage them must comply with the requirements of the Notification of Vacancies Order.

What would be the effect if one of the dockers were again to change his employment? Would he be free during the whole period before he made his final decision? Would he be free to keep on changing his employment without coming under the provisions of the Order?

On changing his employment I think he would come under the provisions, but it applies in only a restricted way to the employer and not to him.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that contained in the explanation of the release scheme for dockers there appears a statement by the General Manager and Secretary of the National Dock Labour Board that a careful survey of the future trend of imports and exports makes it obvious that for some time to come no great improvement in the present level of dock work is to be expected; and on what calculations this statement is based.

I have nothing to add to the answers that I gave to a number of supplementary questions on this subject in the House on 4th December.

Would not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that when we see on the back of the release scheme form itself that the General Manager has told the dockers that there is no prospect of the docks industry being able to expand to its previous level, what, in effect, is being said is that trade in the foreseeable future will continue to sag and that our export and import position cannot possibly improve again? If that is so, would he not agree that the Government have a tremendous task in front of them to alter that situation?

The Government certainly have a tremendous job of work in front of them, but I would point out that the observations which the hon. Gentleman is construing are the observations of the Board, taking into account all the information which they have.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will intervene in the industrial dispute which has arisen as a result of the transfer of ownership of the "Daily Graphic" newspaper.

According to my information there is no industrial dispute arising from the transfer of ownership of the "Daily Graphic."

While any dispute there has been avoided, thanks to the restraint of the staff, which has justifiably expressed anger and distress in other ways, is the Minister aware that only two or three days before the transfer took place Lord Kemsley gave a written assurance to the trade union representatives concerned that there was no substance whatsoever in stories that the transfer was about to take place? Does the Minister think it is really conducive to good industrial relations that men should be treated as chattels in this way, with such a contemptuous regard of the need for joint consultation? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say something about the need for a better standard of behaviour in future on the part of this employer and other employers?

I have already told the House that no dispute in this case has come to me at all, and my information—and I am not surprised to have it—is that the trade unions most concerned have expressed their willingness to cooperate with those who are making the change in the making of it.

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, your predecessor frequently ruled that hon. Members are responsible for the accuracy of the statements they make in their Questions. This Question alleges that there is an "industrial dispute." The hon. and gallant Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton) has said that there is no dispute. What penalty is imposed upon an hon. Member who makes an inaccurate statement?

The answer is, "None."

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there is, in fact, no dispute between the unions and the firms concerned? Does he not agree that people should not interfere in these internal difficulties?

I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will invite the National Joint Advisory Council to recommend methods by which the level of armament production can be reduced with a minimum of disorganisation within the firms whose programmes are affected.

No, Sir. The appropriate Departments are already in consultation with the firms concerned to try and minimise the disturbance to production and employment within the limits set by the revised defence programme.

Would not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that the Advisory Council consists of experts from both sides of the industry who had quite a lot to do with the way in which the rearmament programme was drawn up some time ago, and that people from the Departments concerned cannot pretend to be experts in this sort of field? Will he therefore look at the matter again to ensure that the way in which this is done does not involve any growth of unemployment in the course of slowing down the programme?

This raises rather a technical production question and, although I am always anxious to get any help I can from the Council, I doubt whether they could give specific help on this question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will re-examine the Industrial Disputes Order, No. 1376, with a view to ensuring that a worker's freedom to choose his trade union is effectively protected where a dispute arises.

The Industrial Disputes Order, 1951, does not interfere in any way with the worker's freedom to choose a trade union.

Would the Minister agree that, as a result, workers are forced to join a union as provided by agreement with the industry concerned? Further, is he not aware that certain sections among the bus workers in this country are denied the facilities of obtaining a peaceful settlement of their grievances and, as a result, of exercising their freedom of choice in selecting their own trade union?

I think my noble Friend is wrong in saying that anyone is forced to join a trade union. As far as the Question concerns this Order in general, it must be the policy that we should not try to dictate to industry with whom their negotiations should be conducted. We should do what we can to support the negotiating machinery which exists, believing that the principle is voluntary negotiation and agreement.

On a point of order. Should not the noble Lord declare his own interest in the trade union to which he belongs?

That is not a point of order.

asked the Minister of Labour whether Her Majesty's Government will introduce a measure to preserve effectively the right of the individual to choose freely his, or her, trade union.

In this country, workers are already free to join trade unions of their choice. It would be contrary to long standing practice of successive Governments in this country to deal with questions of this kind by legislation.

Is the Minister not aware that if he pursues his policy it will enable the Trades Union Congress to establish a closed shop throughout industry in this country?

No, Sir. If I were of that opinion I should want to reconsider the matter.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that if there is an industry or profession to which the principle of the closed shop applies it is the profession which he himself adorned before he became a Minister?

asked the Minister of Health the number of prescription forms issued in September, 1951, and 1952; the number of prescriptions per form; and the average cost per form for the two periods.

The number of forms issued in England and Wales in September, 1951, was 10,278,213; the average number of prescriptions per form was 1.59 and the average cost per form was 6s. 1.8d.

The estimated number of forms issued in September, 1952, based on numbers declared by chemists was 9,511,000, and the average number of prescriptions per form 1.72.

The average cost per form is not yet known.

Would the Minister agree that from his answer it appears that the deterrent effect of the charge is likely to give greater financial recompense than the 1s. which is charged per form and that, when he obtains the necessary information, he may well find that the increase in the cost of a prescription cancels some of the financial gain which he is hoping to make? If that should be the case, and he is satisfied that it is the case, will he review the whole matter?

The hon. Gentleman has fallen into the fallacy of comparing prescription forms, which are only pieces of paper. If he makes the necessary calculation, which he can do from my answer, to compare the prescriptions, he will find that the deterrent effect for this month was less than a quarter of 1 per cent.

Is the Minister aware that some doctors absolutely refuse to put more than one item on a form—and I have evidence of this—in which case the patient has to pay 2s. or in some cases 3s. for the two or three items which some doctors place on one form? Is that fair? Will he not do something about it?

I am always ready to look into specific instances, but I cannot take up a general allegation of that sort.

asked the Minister of Health how many British patients are now being treated for tuberculosis in Swiss sanatoria under the National Health Service.

One hundred and thirty beds are available and are continuously occupied, except on the change-over of patients.

Will the Minister increase this number, for two reasons? First, it does not cost any more to treat patients in Switzerland than it does in this country; secondly, he would diminish the chances of infection spreading in this country, thereby saving many lives and much money.

Our present contract runs until October, 1953. I can give no guarantee beyond that. No doubt my hon. Friend realises that the waiting lists in this country are tumbling all the time.

Could the right hon. Gentleman make available a report on the working of the scheme, as it would be of interest to both sides of the House?

The hon. Gentleman has a Question on this matter later, but, in fact, such a report was recently made.

asked the Minister of Health the average charge made for pay beds attached to hospitals; and the average weekly cost of maintaining them.

I regret that this information is not available. Average figures would in any case be misleading, as Section 5 of the National Health Service Act, 1946, requires the charge at each hospital concerned to cover the whole cost of accommodation and services at that hospital.

Will the Minister look at the problem from the point of view of the number of beds which, in some hospitals, are kept vacant for the convenience of the consultant service, and if he finds that the number is up to 50 per cent., as I am informed, will he look at the matter again?

I do not necessarily accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but we have called for a detailed report which will be available in January.

asked the Minister of Health when it is proposed to build further new hospitals in England or Wales.

As soon as the general economic situation permits.

Is the Minister aware that we have not built one new hospital since 1938, which is rather a disgraceful state of affairs for so great a country as ours?

That question would be far more appositely put to his own Front Bench.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the information which he has supplied gives a complete refutation to the charge heard from the benches opposite that the Government's housing drive is at the expense of the hospital?