asked the Minister of Health how many clinics are now available for the treatment of pneumoconiosis cases; how far cases so treated have shown signs of improvement; and for how long he proposes to continue the service given.

On 31st December, 1952, there were 590 chest clinics in the National Health Service, in addition to the ordinary hospital out-patient clinics, at any of which patients could obtain the recognised palliative and symptomatic treatment for pneumoconiosis. I understand that one particular form of therapy is being investigated by the Medical Research Council but that the results are not yet available. I have no intention of discontinuing or reducing the clinic service.

Will the Minister bear in mind that those of us who have watched the effect of this treatment on people suffering from pneumoconiosis are satisfied that at least the exercises and care offered to them do them a great deal of good even if the aluminium inhalation therapy is useless? When he ultimately has to make up his mind, will he take this into consideration?

Yes, certainly. As the hon. Member knows, the form of treatment to which I have referred is the inhalation of aluminium powder, and the results are being investigated.

asked the Minister of Health how many surgical abdominal supports were issued in 1951 for the six months June to December: and how many in 1952 during the comparable period.

The figures for England and Wales for the six months ended 31st December in each year are 52,435 and 29,549 respectively, including all types of belts.

Will the Minister agree that that is a very remarkable fall in numbers? In view of his past statements about reviewing the effect of deterrents upon the whole of the service, will he not now reconsider the question of whether these abdominal supports should be issued free of charge?

I certainly studied the deterrent effect of all charges with the greatest care. This certainly is a very considerable fall, but in the six months before the charges were introduced a marked decline was shown, although I agree it was nothing like that of the six months following the charge.

asked the Minister of Health the charges made for day nursery accommodation per week in Stoke-on-Trent, Slough, Bournemouth and Liverpool; and how many day nurseries have been closed throughout England and Wales since Circular 23/52 was issued on 28th July last.

The maximum charges in the four areas are 14s., 43s., 44s., and 16s. 6d., respectively. Thirty-four nurseries had been closed up to the end of last March.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in Stoke-on-Trent there is a very strict test of need—not a test of means—and, despite that very strict test of need for accommodation, the local authority have to find more than £11,000 a year net out of their own rates? Does the hon. Lady not consider this something which many local authorities cannot afford, as it is a 2d. rate? When are we to get real assistance from the Government on this matter?

That is another question.

How does the hon. Lady account for the great difference which her figures have disclosed?

The charges to be made are at the discretion of local authorities, but they may not exceed the cost to the local authority per nursery place.

asked the Minister of Health the comparative cost per child of day nurseries in Stoke-on-Trent, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Kidsgrove at the latest date for which figures are available.

In 1951–52 the costs were £178, £147 and £136.

Are not these costs very high, and what is the Minister doing to reduce the costs of running these day nurseries in order that they may be maintained, and the charges, decided by the local authority, kept down?

All local authorities are endeavouring to run their day nurseries as economically as possible. The hon. Member will appreciate that the biggest single item in looking after small children is the high incidence of staff.

Will the hon. Lady review the staff arrangements? There are many criticisms about the over-staffing of day nurseries. Would it be possible to review the staffing arrangements in order to try to get greater economy? It is the responsibility of her Department.

The general standard is laid down by the Ministry, but the administration of the nurseries is entirely a matter for the local authorities.

In whatever decision she comes to, will the hon. Lady try to avoid running nursery classes on the cheap?

Nursery classes are not the concern of my Department.

I am sorry, I meant day nurseries.

asked the Minister of Health how many day nurseries have been maintained in Staffordshire; and what was the cost of them to his Department in 1950, 1951 and 1952.

Ten; the Exchequer grant payable in the years referred to was £21,620, £20,447 and £20,542 respectively.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say whether it is the policy of her Department to encourage the maintenance of day nurseries and to keep them open? What action is being taken in Staffordshire, where there is a danger of day nurseries being closed owing to the high rate of charges, in order to ensure that there is a proper social service of day nurseries?

A decision on the need for day nurseries is a matter for local authorities, who take into account local considerations.

Is the hon. Lady aware that in Warwickshire the cost is 50 per cent. more than in Staffordshire, namely £3 a week, and all the nursery schools have been closed by the local authority, including that in Nuneaton, with the consent of her right hon. Friend?

asked the Minister of Health how many children were attending day nurseries in Leek, Kids-grove, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Biddulph on 1st April, 1952 and 1953.

Thirty-five and 13 at Leek, 44 and 24 at Kidsgrove, 73 and 23 at the two nurseries at Newcastle-under-Lyme. There is no nursery at Biddulph.

is the hon. Lady aware that this drop in attendance is indicative of the fact that many mothers who need to work to earn a living are now unable to work and are going on National Assistance? Is not the Government's policy therefore penny wise and pound foolish in this matter?

All the local authorities who have raised their charges to those whom they feel can afford to pay the higher rate have a very generous assessment of means. Where it is considered that the income is too low to afford the standard charge, local authorities make very substantial reductions.

Is the hon. Lady aware that it has hitherto been the policy of the Minister of Labour to encourage women to work in the pottery industry and other industries in North Staffordshire? If she is intending to encourage women to continue to do so, will she inquire into this deplorable drop in numbers, which shows that women are withdrawing their children from the day nurseries owing to the high charges, and will she consult with the Minister of Labour?

My right hon. Friend has consulted with his right hon. and learned Friend. I understand there is no evidence that the closing or the lessening of the use of nurseries has had any adverse effect on the labour situation

How can the Parliamentary Secretary refer to the sympathy of local authorities when in her own county of Kent all the day nurseries are being closed down, and there is no question of sympathy at all?

asked the Minister or Health what alternative provision he will make for those working mothers who are financially compelled to withdraw their children from day nurseries in Staffordshire owing to the 350 per cent. increase in charges.

asked the Minister of Health (1) if he is aware of the concern aroused by the increase in charges in day nurseries in Staffordshire from 8s. 9d. per child per week to £2; and, in view of the importance of women's work in industry in North Staffordshire and the declared intention of many mothers to leave industry rather than pay the increased charge, what action he proposes to take;

The standard charge of £2 a week in Staffordshire is based on the cost per nursery place, but is reduced according to the means of those parents who cannot afford it. The question of securing female labour for industry is a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Labour.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary appreciate that a great grievance arises when in two adjacent areas where women are working in the same industry, the charges vary by as much as 200 per cent.? Is she aware that the basic charge in Stoke-on-Trent is 2s. 6d. and in the county area of Staffordshire it is now 8s., and that because of different policies being pursued a very bad situation is arising among women working in the same industry in North Staffordshire?

I appreciate the point raised by the hon. Member, but I think that the House would agree that this is a matter where local considerations should be judged by the local authority.

Is the hon. Lady aware that people who are least able to bear the burden—unmarried mothers, widows and others—are now unable to go to work because of this general policy? May I beg her and her right hon. Friend to investigate this question of differential payments for day nurseries throughout the whole country and try to get a unified policy?

But even a unified policy might not give equality if conditions vary in different areas. I cannot agree that the type of applicants mentioned, widows or unmarried mothers, are unable to work. The quite generous allowances permitted under the new scales in these areas provide that a widow with one child, paying 25s. a week rent, would have to earn approximately £9 a week before being called upon to pay the full charge.

What is the full charge?

Can my hon. Friend say which children whose parents have been assessed as able to pay the full charge came from families with substantial incomes?

From the investigations made, and from those who replied to the questionnaire, it was revealed that between 60 per cent. and 70 per cent. were earning over £10 per week—

Scandalous and ridiculous.

Order.

I object to these absurd statements—

Order.

Of those families who replied when asked why they should not pay the full charge between 60 per cent. and 70 per cent. were earning over £10 a week—[Interruption.] A substantial number would not disclose their means, and withdrew their children.

asked the Minister of Health in view of the shortage of nurses in sanatoria and tuberculosis clinics, what special action he is taking to improve the situation.

My right hon. Friend proposes to continue the various measures which are already in continuous operation, and under which the staffing situation continues to improve.

asked the Minister of Health if he can yet make a statement in respect of experiments with an influenza vaccine.

The trial was extended to 31st March and the records are now being studied in detail by the Medical Research Council. I would prefer to await a full statistical report before commenting on the value of the experiment.

I appreciate that point, but as every person in the country has a vested interest in these experiments, may I ask when we may expect some statement about this very important matter?

Unfortunately at all these trials there was a low rate of influenza both among the trial and control groups so the information is nothing like so adequate as we would like. But I will let the hon. Member know as soon as I am ready to make a full statement, and perhaps he will put a Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that in many localities individuals are experiencing difficulty in finding a doctor on whose panel they can be registered; and whether he will suggest a method of overcoming this inconvenience.

No, Sir. Anyone who cannot find a doctor willing to accept him can apply to the Executive Council to be assigned to a doctor. If my hon. and gallant Friend will give me details of any cases he has in mind, I will look into the matter.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary mean that she is not aware of the difficulty which is being experienced in many localities in obtaining a doctor? I thought her reply started with the words, "No, Sir."

Various circumstances may give rise to a doctor not accepting a particular patient. His list may be full. But anyone who cannot obtain a doctor in an area has only to apply to the Executive Council, who will make arrangements.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will instruct dentists not to ask for a patient's national registration number unless treatment is to be given under the National Health Service.

It is not for my right hon. Friend to intervene in arrangements connected with private treatment.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary consider that for a dentist to take a patient's registration number and then treat the patient as a private patient savours of sharp practice? Does she not consider that a patient is, under present circumstances, entitled to consider that he or she is being treated as a National Health Service patient unless the dentist says to the contrary? Is not the proportion very much in favour of the National Health Service scheme at present?

I think there is a responsibility on both sides. It is generally known and understood that to obtain National Health Service treatment a patient has to sign a form, and in so doing he knows he is receiving National Health Service treatment.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say how much longer the national registration number will be required from any section of the population needing treatment under the National Health Service?

That is another question.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary seen the case which I sent to her right hon. Friend in which a dentist wrote the national registration number on the appropriate coloured form, did not ask the patient to sign the form and then charged the patient the full private fee, the patient discovering only afterwards that this was more than the National Health Service charge? Does he not consider this utterly dishonest?

The patient had the machinery at his disposal to lodge and take up a complaint. The hon. Member knows that the Act provides that such complaints are dealt with by executive councils, so that the remedy lies in the patient's own hands.

asked the Minister of Health whether sufficient hearing aids are now being produced to meet the current requirements of the National Health Service and the steady reduction of arrears.

Yes, Sir.

Does the Minister expect to be able to clear these arrears within the year, as he told another hon. Member two months ago?

Yes, certainly I do; within the financial year. The waiting list in the area in which the hon. Member is most concerned has dropped from 66,000 to 42,600 in the last six months. We are completely on top of the position now. There is ample supply and the difficulty is that there are too many to handle at the centres.

asked the Minister of Health what are the categories of priority in the supply of hearing aids in the National Health Service; and what is the order in which they operate.

No fixed categories have been laid down but hospitals generally give high priority to the deaf blind, children and mothers with young children and, at my request, some degree of priority to patients who require aids for employment purposes.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will state the aggregate annual coal, coke and fuel oil consumption of the hospitals and institutions vested in him; what steps have been taken to inspire greater attention to fuel efficiency and coal conservation; and, in view of the coal position, what special steps he proposes in this connection.

I am afraid I do not possess the information asked for in the first part of the Question. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of a circular which my predecessor sent to hospital authorities on the subject calling for regular returns of fuel consumption from the larger hospitals. Where these returns suggest inefficient use of fuel, the authority's attention will be drawn to it, and a visit paid by one of my engineers if necessary.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the circular to which he referred bears the date 1951, when conditions were rather different from the conditions obtaining today? In view of the fact that iron and steel are no longer rationed, and that there are fewer restrictions on capital investment, will my right hon. Friend consider drawing the attention of the regional boards to the urgency for fuel conservation in the immediate future?

The circular to which I referred is not dated 1951; it is dated February, 1952. It is quite true that steel is no longer a limiting factor, but the ceiling on capital investment still is, and I cannot ask hospital authorities to give exclusive priority to this sort of work, although I fully recognise its importance, and it may be that not enough attention has been paid to this class of work.

Can the right hon. Gentleman indicate whether attention is paid to the type of fuel-saving appliances which are being installed in hospitals? When the time is appropriate and when supplies of steel are more plentiful, would he be prepared to advise regional hospital boards throughout the country on what is the best type of fuel-saving appliance instead of leaving it to private interests in this country to push their own barrows all the time in order to get their particular fuel-saving appliance accepted?

I will send the hon. Member a copy of the circular I have issued, which gives those details, but I will certainly not take the action suggested in the last part of his question, which would imply a complete lack of confidence in hospital boards.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent capital expenditure limitation put upon the regional hospital boards is arresting or delaying necessary re-equipment schemes for power and heating and thus leading to coal wastage: and whether, after consulting the regional boards, he will make a statement.

This information is not available, and I do not think I should be justified in putting boards to the expenditure of time and labour that would be necessary to get it. I have, however, drawn their attention to the point, and I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of a circular in which I suggested that they should have regard to schemes of the type he has in mind.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is a special problem here affecting hospitals, namely, that their capital investment programmes are restricted and that quite clearly the regional boards will, as a first priority, devote their available funds to medical equipment and buildings to house it, with the result that fuel efficiency will get relatively a very low position in the order of priority?

I do not dissent from much of that. As I said in reply to an earlier supplementary question, it may be that too little attention is paid to this side of capital work, and these Questions help to emphasise the importance of it, but I think it right that the boards themselves should settle their own priorities in this matter.

Will the right hon. Gentleman pay regard to the fact that in hospitals, particularly, saving can be effected not so much through a particular unit but through paying attention to the necessity for rationalising boilerhouses? They usually have far too many.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most hospital management committees are very anxious to proceed on these lines? Will he do something to persuade the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give them more money with which to do it?

I am certainly most anxious to get as much money for capital investment in this service as I can, and it is no doubt true that many of our hospitals are old and out of date and, as a result, uneconomic in many respects.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that Barnsley Hall Hospital, Worcestershire, consumes approximately 3,000 tons of coal per annum and that proposals to re-equip power and heating arrangements at the hospital, thereby saving 540 tons of coal per annum, were first made in 1947; that the regional board were informed of the proposal when the hospital was vested in the Minister of Health; that the scheme has been deferred annually since 1947 for reasons attributed to steel and cast-iron shortage; and whether, in view of the ending of iron and steel allocations, the free availability of supplies and the need to conserve coal, he will now authorise the scheme to proceed without delay.

I am informed that the regional board have had this scheme before them since 1949 but have not so far felt able to give it priority over other urgent capital schemes in their area. It will be reviewed by the board along with other schemes of this kind, and I cannot say when they will be able to proceed with it.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it might be useful to take the initiative in this case, in view of the waste of coal which is going on. Even in the short time since 1949 2,000 tons of coal has been needlessly wasted through the scheme not being proceeded with, which represents the productive effort of six coalface workers for a full year.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind in this matter that what I was trying to impress upon him was the use of fewer boilers, not more?

I have taken the right hon. Gentleman's point. As for my hon. Friend's question, I fully agree with the importance of this matter, and I am always ready to ask my engineers to investigate any report which there may be of fuel inefficiency. I recognise that there may well be difficulties in the future over coal stocks, and it is important for all hospitals to review their policy in this field.

asked the Minister of Health why a hospital group in the London area, details of which have been sent to him, is paying £15 for each television set hired for Coronation day; and whether he will make more economical arrangements to prevent this exploitation of the desire of hospital authorities to enable patients to view the Coronation.

I am informed that this hospital group are hiring 19 television sets fully serviced, at an approximate cost of £11 10s. 0d. per set, to be met from non-Exchequer funds, and I see no reason to intervene.

Is not this a heartless example of Coronation profiteering—to pay £11 10s. for one set for one day—and is it quite impossible to prevent this rather crude exploitation of hospital authorities, sick people and the public purse generally?

No; I do not agree in the least. I have looked into the comparative costs. Of course, normally, it is quite uneconomic to hire sets for one day. These sets include aerials, service, the attention of an engineer and all the necessary equipment, and I cannot think of a more suitable use of amenity funds than to enable hospital patients to see Her Majesty's Coronation.

It is profiteering, anyhow.

asked the Minister of Education the final number of vacancies in teacher training colleges for the 1952–53 session.

On a point of order. I do not think you called me, Mr. Speaker, to ask Question 22.

I called the hon. Member's name quite clearly, but he did not rise.

Altogether some 450 places were left vacant in training colleges for the courses which began in the 1952–53 session.

asked the Minister of Education how many places in teacher training colleges in England and Wales had been taken up at the end of March for the 1953–54 session; and what was the comparable figure last year.

At the end of March, 9,620 places had been filled, or offered to students by training colleges, for courses of initial training beginning next autumn. The comparable figure last year was 9,196.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say what steps his right hon. Friend is taking, and what suggestions she is making, to ensure that there will be no vacancies in the training colleges in September?

The figures show some improvement, as the hon. Gentleman will have seen, and every effort is being made to keep that improvement continuing.

Must we sit down and patiently wait for the larger classes in the late 1950s before we get more teachers coming in?

No; every effort is being made to fill the places in the training colleges, and the figures are, in fact, improving.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary state what these efforts are? Could he be a little more specific in his answer?

The efforts are, by endeavouring to get the maximum publicity for the needs of the training colleges, and endeavouring to see that they are full, or as nearly full as can be managed.

asked the Minister of Education what percentage of pupils of 12 years of age in schools under her jurisdiction are receiving education in grammar schools or streams, in secondary schools or streams and in comprehensive and multilateral schools.

Of the 12 year-old pupils on the registers of grant-aided schools in January, 1952, 20·5 per cent. were receiving education in grammar schools or streams, 60·2 per cent. in modern schools or streams and 1·3 per cent. in secondary technical schools or streams; 04 per cent. were in comprehensive schools.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say what steps his right hon. Friend is taking to encourage the establishment of more comprehensive schools?

No, I cannot say what steps my right hon. Friend is taking to encourage the design or the proposal for more comprehensive schools.

rose—

Hear, hear.

Oh, what a lovely morning.

I can well understand this perfectly permissible hilarity, but, for the benefit of those of us who did not get beyond what was then elementary education, can the Parliamentary Secretary tell us what "or streams" means?

In modern schools, or the modern sections, unlike other streams, going up to school.

asked the Minister of Education when she will be able to give a decision in regard to the proposal about the transport of school children which was submitted to her Department by Durham County Council on 5th May, 1952.

My right hon. Friend wrote to the local education authority about this matter on 21st April, and is now considering their reply.

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that a period of more than 12 months is an unduly long period for the consideration of this proposal before coming to any decision, and will he assure the House that the delay is not being used as a means of forcing local authorities to operate or implement the economies of Circular 242? Will he assure us, further, that a decision will be reached at an early date?

I am sure that there is no question of delay being used as a method of compulsion. As to the causes of the delay, my right hon. Friend did write on 21st April, and I do not think there can be any reasonable complaint about that.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what delay took place between the letter of 21st April and the receipt of the previous correspondence, despite the pressure by myself and the local authorities?

Answer that.

asked the Minister of Education how many teachers trained at training colleges and certificated are unemployed.

Of a total of 12,501 teachers of all kinds who completed their training at recognised training colleges and university departments of education in the summer of 1952, 102 men and 68 women were on the books of the appointments board jointly administered by the National Union of Teachers and the Association of Education Committees as being without teaching posts on 1st April last, the latest date for which complete information is available.

Is it not a disgraceful thing that there should be so many classes of 40 and 50 when we have an unemployed list of nearly 200 teachers who have not got positions anywhere in any county?

I think that almost all the unemployment arises from lack of mobility, because people, for one reason or another, are unwilling to go to anything but a small part of the country, or because people, for some reason or another, are unwilling to do anything but a very particular kind of teaching. I think that is what accounts for the unemployment; I have not got the proportion worked out, but I think I am not far wrong in saying that it is 1·4 per cent., and I think it arises in the way I have suggested.

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary how much of the unemployment amongst women teachers is due to the fact that some local authorities have cut down the complement of women teachers?

I am sorry, but I am afraid that I cannot give a specific answer.

asked the Minister of Education how many vacancies there are in grammar schools, whether boys, girls or mixed, for teachers of mathematics, physics, chemistry and biology.

Vacancies are not notified to my right hon. Friend. During the past three years, there has been a small but welcome increase in the number of teachers holding degrees in mathematics or science who are employed in maintained grammar schools. At the same time, she is aware of the anxiety that is felt about the adequacy of the supply of such teachers and the matter is continuing to receive her close attention.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that numbers are not the only question involved here, but that the quality of science teaching is declining very considerably? Has he observed that there is a growing opinion in the universities, as evidenced by a speech yesterday by Sir Richard Southwell, and a letter in "The Times" yesterday by Professor Skinner, to the effect that the universities will have to adjust themselves to a lower quality of students, and does he not regard that as something extremely serious?

No doubt, any inadequacy either in the numbers or the quality of science and mathematics teachers is a very serious matter, but the question whether the universities ought to attempt to meet that evil by lowering their standards is one which could not be discussed by Question and Answer across the Floor of the House, and is one which, fortunately, is no part of the responsibility of the Department for which I am answering.

Does the hon. Gentleman contemplate any measures to overcome this shortage?

The National Advisory Council on the Training and Supply of Teachers is in continuous consultation with my right hon. Friend, and is keeping this matter under continuous review. We are all very fully aware of the difficulties.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the real difficulty is the fact that an honours graduate in mathematics or science is paid such a pittance for teaching that he is ultimately drawn into industry? That is the real reason why so few scientists are in the teaching profession today.

It is true, of course, that one of the main reasons why persons qualified for more than one profession choose one rather than another is the amount of direct financial remuneration. We are all perfectly well aware of that.

asked the Minister of Education how many new schools were completed in 1952; and on how many of such schools construction was actually commenced before the present Government took office.

Four hundred and eighty-nine new schools were completed during 1952, of which 485 were started before 1st November, 1951.

Will the hon. Gentleman kindly see that that information is sent to the Conservative Central Office in order that the briefs which they send out may contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

I am glad to say that I am not responsible for the Conservative Central Office briefs, but I am quite certain they contain the truth and nothing but the truth. I cannot, of course, assert that they contain all the truth.

Will the hon. Gentleman see that those figures are supplied to his own Minister?

Is it not a fact that the relevant point about this matter is the rate of completion?

asked the Minister of Education what action she is taking to increase the production of technologists.

The hon. Member has already seen Circular 255 describing the arrangements for making improved financial assistance available for selected technical colleges and courses. Applications for additional grant under this circular are now being considered, and have in some cases already been approved.

Is the Minister aware that these measures, while welcome, are quite inadequate, and cannot he make another effort to persuade his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to upgrade perhaps six of the major technical colleges to university college status so that we might tackle the job and spend more money on this vitally important task?

I do not think that the usefulness of this device—for the approval of which by the hon. Gentleman I am extremely grateful—has been by a very long chalk exhausted yet, and I think we must go on with this method. As to organisations promoted to university rank, as I indicated in another connection, that is not one of the matters for which I have to answer here.

asked the Minister of Education how many camps will be available this year by arrangement with the National Camps Corporation Limited; approximately, for how many children this will provide; and whether Kennylands Camp will be in use this year.

The National Camps Corporation own 30 camps, of which 25 are at present occupied by children sent by local education authorities. The total capacity of these 25 camps is 6,000 places. Kennylands Camp is, and will continue to be, in use for children from Essex.

Can the Minister inform me whether this represents an increase or a decrease over preceding years, and, approximately, how many children will be accommodated in Kennylands Camp?

It is about 200 now. I am afraid I have not armed myself with the figures for recent years, but if the hon. Gentleman will remind me I will send him a note about it or answer a Question on another day.

asked the President of the Board of Trade when a trade mission is to be invited to visit this country from Cuba, as recommended in the recently-published report of the United Kingdom Trade Mission to the Caribbean.

On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, may I ask whether, in view of the great importance of the defence programme, we could have an answer to Question No. 34 about the purchase of javelins by the Kent Education Committee?

That Question has not been asked.

The Cuban Government have already been informed that Her Majesty's Government would welcome a trade mission from Cuba. I am glad to say that this invitation has been accepted and that an important and representative trade mission will shortly arrive in this country. Arrangements are being made to introduce the mission to interested industries in this country, and I hope that their visit, which we owe to the initiative of Brigadier Crosland and his colleagues, will result in substantial export business.

Will my hon. Friend ensure that in any negotiations he has with Cuba, the interests of Jamaica and other parts of the West Indies will be fully safeguarded? Secondly, will he try and persuade the Cubans to take more of our exports in return for the increased imports of sugar that we are taking from them?

The answer to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary is certainly "Yes." So far as the second part of his supplementary question is concerned, that is the object of this visit. We import about £26 million worth of goods from Cuba and sell them only £5 million worth. We are most anxious to sell them more.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will resume the custom of publishing an illustrated explanation of the Budget proposals, "The Budget and Your Pocket," in order that the community can be made aware of what benefit they receive from it.

A poster showing the detailed make-up of the Budget will be published, as it was last year, after the Finance Bill has been debated.

Is it not clear that the good points in the Budget have already been carefully noted by the electors of Sunderland?

Is it not a fact that if this leaflet had been published the Sunderland election result might have been different?

I now appreciate the hon. Member's motive in putting down this Question.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his attention has been called to Form 15 (17340) M21009/FS185— 10/50— 120,000 J.H.718/24A which states that Estate Duty is to take the pre-war value of property in certain circumstances at the time of death in accordance with a statement in the House of Commons on 18th May, 1944; whether he is aware that this valuation is not being accepted by the District Valuers Office, who are insisting on the replacement value of the property; and under which of his regulations and at what date this change was made.

As there appears to be some misapprehension about the scope of this concession, I think it desirable to give a rather long answer which, with the hon. Member's permission, I will therefore circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is the hon. Gentleman quite satisfied that the designation of the form is not such as to cause any misunderstanding, but to enable people to follow it without difficulty and without any misrepresentation?

If the hon. Member had inspected the form before putting down his Question he would have realised that its designation is complete with the words "Form No. 15," and that the various other figures embodied in his Question are simply the printer's code number at the back.

Is it not a fact that these details are given on the form itself?

Owing to the fact that the Stationery Office observe the law, they are given in the usual position at the back.

May I ask that the hon. Gentleman does not get away with it by blaming the printers?

I can assure my right hon. Friend that I will always look after printers.

Was it a reputable firm of printers?

As I understand it, all firms of printers are reputable.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will make an estimate from the information available to him of the number of fruit trees of each variety known being grown at the present time; what steps are being made to augment this supply; and if he will take steps to encourage local authorities to grow all the fruit required to meet all demands in their own area as far as possible.

With permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT an estimate of fruit tree numbers in 1952. As for the remainder of the Question, my right hon. Friend is not aware of any shortage of planting stocks of any popular variety of fruit tree, and there seems no reason to believe that production by commercial growers and domestic food producers will fail to keep pace with the demand for home grown fruit.

Is my hon. Friend aware that Worcestershire will always look after the fruit?

Is my hon. Friend aware that much more fruit was grown last year than could be sold, even at a halfpenny a pound over the cost of picking? Is he further aware that to ask the local authorities to grow fruit will still further increase the appalling rise in the rates at the present moment?

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he will make an estimate from the information available of the number of trees planted and the number cut down or otherwise destroyed last year, showing, where possible, the details of all varieties known, particularly all kinds of fruit trees.

No, Sir. There is no reliable information available on which to base such an estimate.

Will my hon. Friend give further attention to discovering how many trees are rooted up each year, and, as his Department are trying to encourage growers to uproot old orchards, will he endeavour to keep a record of what happens?

A census of fruit trees is taken approximately every five years. The last time was in 1951, and the next census will be in about three years' time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will give an assurance that the police will help persons holding tickets for seats on the route of the Coronation procession to get to them even after the hour by which the police have recommended them to arrive.

Yes, Sir. The police will give ticket holders all the help they can, but late-comers cannot be guaranteed access to their seats.

While thanking my hon. and learned Friend for that answer, may I ask whether he is aware that the times of arrival recommended by the police involve a wait of from four to eight hours before Her Majesty passes, and that the advice, if not qualified, will reduce the number of people who turn out to line the route? Will he, therefore, give as much publicity as possible to the reply which he has just given?

No doubt my answer will get due publicity. Perhaps I can reassure my hon. Friend by saying that there will be plenty to occupy the attention of seatholders and others before the expiry of the four to eight hours.

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman be good enough to go into this matter again? It is becoming an annoying practice on such occasions for people to have to arrive hours before. There may be an explanation, a good reason, but the public ought to know it, and there is another place that ought to know it as well. I ask the hon. and learned Member to take the matter seriously, because it is sometimes annoying and rather provocative for people to have to sit around for hours and hours, with a great deal of personal inconvenience before a function is to begin.

My right hon. and learned Friend will, of course, give careful consideration to all that the right hon. Gentleman has said. I should repeat that the police will do all that they can to get late-comers in, even if they come after the time stated.

Is it not clear that the police and other authorities concerned have grossly under-estimated the extent to which people will take advantage of television facilities to see the procession, and have over-estimated the crowds likely to gather on the Coronation route in view of the times at which people have been asked to be in their seats?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps are taken by the Metropolitan Police to ensure compliance with Section 19 of the Road Traffic Act, 1930, and Section 16 of the Road and Rail Traffic Act, 1933, as regards the Metropolitan area.

The Metropolitan police have standing instructions to require production of the records of work of a goods vehicle driver whenever they have occasion to inspect his driving licence, and they take such action as may be called for if breaches of the law are disclosed. In 1952, 208 prosecutions were taken in the Metropolitan police district under Section 16 of the Road and Rail Traffic Act, 1933, and 1,547 persons were cautioned by letter and a number warned orally for failure to keep such records or cause them to be kept. No police prosecutions were taken under Section 19 of the Traffic Act, 1930; suspected or alleged breaches of this Section are reported to the licensing authority for such action as that authority may consider necessary.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the reply he has given completely refutes, so far as the Metropolitan area is concerned, the idle scandalmongering by hon. Gentlemen opposite about the offences against those two Acts?

asked the Minister of Transport which organisations he has invited to submit nominations for appointments to the Road Haulage Disposal Board; in which cases names have been provided; and in which the invitation declined.

The following bodies were invited to submit names for my consideration:

• The British Transport Commission.
• The Federation of British Industries.
• The National Union of Manufacturers.
• The Association of British Chambers of Commerce.
• The Road Haulage Association.
• The Traders' Road Transport Association.
• The Traders' Co-ordinating Committee on Transport.

Why did the Minister include among the bodies invited to submit nominations bodies such as the Road Haulage Association, which are known to be interested parties, and will be more concerned about disposing of the national assets as cheaply as possible than obtaining the best possible price in the national interest?

I was proposing to give those reasons at length in a debate on the Adjournment Motion, which I have been informed will take place.

Would the Minister indicate, if he thinks there are valid and justifiable reasons for inviting the Road Haulage Association to submit nominations, why he could not extend those reasons to inviting the trade unions catering for the men, like the National Union of Railwaymen and other unions?

Had the hon. Gentleman attended the debates he would know that the trade unions, I am sorry to say, declined the invitation.

Would the right hon. Gentleman now give the assurance that he refused to give on Monday that he will not appoint from these nominations anybody who has a direct interest in road haulage or any interest in financing it?

I am under somewhat of a difficulty in that notice to raise this matter on the Adjournment has already been given. This I can say, that to me, to the Government and to Sunder-land the Road Haulage Association is a very proper body to consult in regard to A and B licence holders.

Are any distinctly Scottish bodies invited?