asked the Minister of Civil Aviation what developments are proposed by his Department in Scotland during the present year, apart from those at Prestwick.

A new terminal building and control tower are now under construction at Renfrew Airport, and it is hoped to start work on a new terminal building at Edinburgh (Turnhouse) Airport later this year.

Is my right hon. Friend really satisfied with that reply? Does it show that we are being sufficiently urgent in pressing the need for this development?

We are doing our best to see that a fair share of the development goes to Scotland, and I would remind my hon. and gallant Friend that, apart from London Airport, more money will be spent on Renfrew this year than on any similar project in any other part of the United Kingdom.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say, in regard to these developments, how far success has been achieved in providing a runway at Edinburgh Airport capable of receiving the most modern machines?

When I make the fuller statement about the airport, which, when answering Questions I have hinted I shall make, I shall deal with that particular point.

Arising out of the original answer, may I ask my right hon. Friend what developments are likely in Scotland this year in helicopter flying services?

This Question was intended, I take it, to obtain from me details, which I am very glad to give, of the expenditure for which I am responsible. In regard to the actual services, I am told by B.E.A. that they hope to improve the frequency, capacity and timing of their services in Scotland during the current year, but, in Scotland as elsewhere, on helicopter development there is still a very great deal of early work to be done.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation if he will give orders to the management of London Airport that the loudspeakers in the public enclosure at London Airport are to be used as little as possible, that music and singing are to cease altogether, that the number of announcements is to be reduced to a minimum and that the volume be toned down to a level at which it will not cause a nuisance to local residents.

Arrangements have already been made for the noise from loudspeakers in the public enclosure at London Airport to be kept at a level which should not cause a nuisance to the local residents. In these circumstances, I would not propose to change the purposes for which the equipment is used.

Is not the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is a Consultative Committee which is supposed to consider these matters? Can he say whether this matter has been brought before it and whether it has discussed it?

The hon. Gentleman knows the answer to that, because when he held my present office he went into this matter very carefully at that time, but whether he took the advice of the Consultative Committee or not I do not know. Since that time we have had only one representation made, and that was when we were testing equipment this year. I take it that everybody is now satisfied.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation whether he can yet make public any reports on the efficiency of the acoustic walls at London Airport; whether he is satisfied with the results of the experiments; and what further steps are being taken to reduce or eliminate the noise of aircraft engines being serviced or run-up at night.

So far, we have been able to experiment only with light aircraft, and the results have been promising, but it is early to form a clear conclusion. We shall be experimenting with larger and noisier aircraft in the near future. In the meantime, all operators at London Airport have been requested, and have willingly agreed, not to run aircraft engines at night without urgent operational need.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation if he will take immediate steps to stop pleasure aircraft from operating from London Airport in view of the inconvenience caused to local residents by the additional noise, which is particularly aggravating on Sundays.

All possible steps have been taken to ensure that pleasure flights do not pass unnecessarily over populated areas near London Airport, and these arrangements will continue. Pleasure (lying is one of the most popular attractions among visitors at the Airport, and I could not agree to it being stopped altogether.

Will the Minister bear in mind that to have pleasure aircraft flying from London Airport is simply adding insult to injury to a neighbourhood which has suffered very severely from loss of amenity because of the very large aircraft which fly to and from London Airport? Would it not be possible for pleasure flying to be done from aerodromes in the country nowhere near built-up areas?

I very much sympathise with my hon. Friend in the difficulties which his constituents have in regard to noise and disturbance from London Airport, but the point is that there is pleasure flying from other aerodromes as well. Here, we have a public enclosure, and this is one of the most pleasurable things for people who go into that enclosure. In addition, it encourages air-mindedness. and makes a useful contribution towards the cost of operating the airport. I cannot add anything to the answer I have given.

Will my hon. Friend consider this matter again, because the noise which is caused day and night to my constituents by London Airport is simply appalling? Why cannot he go there occasionally and listen to it, when I am sure he would agree with the views expressed by my hon. Friend and myself?

It is not because I have not been there a great deal. I am well aware of the difficulties at London Airport, but my right hon. Friend is responsible for the whole field of civil aviation. If there have been any difficulties which cause problems to local residents from the point of view of pleasure flying, I will gladly look into any particular case, but I am not in a position to say that I can stop pleasure flying altogether.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation what proposals have been submitted to him for air transport services to carry fresh fish direct from Aberdeen to Birmingham and Billingsgate; and what action he is taking to authorise such services.

No proposals have been submitted by British European Airways or any independent air transport undertaking for the carriage of this traffic. I understand that it is normally impracticable to carry fish on aircraft used for passengers or other types of freight and that the cost of a service catering for fish only would probably prove excessive. It is, nevertheless, open to any independent company to arrange to carry this traffic on a charter basis without the specific authorisation of my right hon. Friend.

Is it not time that the Ministry took the initiative in this matter, because both the fishing industry and the consumers would welcome quicker and better transport of this succulent food? Dyce Airport is waiting to be used, so will the Minister see that it is used?

This, of course, is a matter which should be taken up with the operators concerned. My right hon. Friend has no power to order any company to carry this sort of traffic The hon. and learned Gentleman himself would probably not travel twice on a plane which had carried fish on a previous occasion.

Is the Minister aware that at times there are some very queer fish to be found on these planes?

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation how many applications to operate scheduled services he has received from independent operators; on which routes these applications have been opposed by one or other of the British air corporations; and which of these opposed applications he has granted.

I am informed that the Air Transport Advisory Council have received 178 applications from independent operators and that one or both of the Corporations opposed 28 of these applications without qualification, and eight of these, mostly all-freight services, were approved: in addition, one or both Corporations made qualified objections to a further 10 applications, of which five have been approved. I will include details of these routes in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can the Minister say how far the refusal to allow one of the Corporations to take over one of these eight freight services, which I gather have been granted to independent operators, is going to damage the financial position of one or other of the British Air Corporations?

I think that when the hon. Gentleman reads what I shall circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT he will see that it is not a question of an independent operator taking over an all-freight service or of an independent operator having been granted or recommended an air service where the Corporation already have a right. As regards the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary, my right hon. Friend has every confidence in the ability of the Air Transport Advisory Council to judge whether any new applications would undermine the existing services of the Corporations.

Is the Minister aware that anybody can take a ship to sea without anybody's permission under the Merchant Shipping Act? Having regard to the great success of our mercantile marine, would it not be a good idea to have the same freedom in the air?

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation when he hopes to implement his declared policy to reduce the number of airports in the London area to three.

Progress in carrying out this policy must necessarily be by stages, and I regret I cannot at present forecast dates.

Does the Minister, perhaps, regret his original statement?

Not at all.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether when this reduction takes place it will provide an excellent opportunity for opening the airport long promised at Errol in Perthshire?

Does the Minister remember that in October, 1952, he made the quite categorical statement that he proposed to reduce the airports serving London from seven to three and that the one difference between his Government and their predecessors was that he could make a decision? Are we to now understand that he can give no date when he proposes to close down the other four?

If the hon. Gentleman will read my answer, which was carefully prepared, I think he will find the answer there.

Is there any difference between the statement which the right hon. Gentleman has just made and the statement made by his predecessor?

It is the difference between action and inaction.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation to give details of relevant information with regard to the proposed development of Gatwick Airport, which has been made known to him since he announced his decision last July to develop Gatwick Airport.

At this stage I have nothing to add to the answer which I gave the hon. Member on 10th June.

The answer which the Minister gave the hon. Gentleman on 10th June was to the effect that he had since received information about undertakings that had been given by his predecessors. Does not he think it would be unfortunate, to say the least, if he gave the impression that his predecessors had given any undertaking of which he was unaware when he made his statement in July last year?

What I said in reply to a supplementary question was that certain inferences were drawn by some people from statements made by our predecessors, and on that I would refer the hon. Gentleman to correspondence recently in "The Times" on that particular point. There are, of course, other issues, like the Brighton Road diversion and certain railway questions, which have since been put to me in a rather different light, and which have demanded some reconsideration of our detailed plans.

While I can understand the complications now troubling the Minister and can appreciate his desire to give full heed to the representations made to him, will he now make it quite clear that when last week he said that undertakings were given of which he was then unaware he was not stating the position correctly?

I did not say that I was unaware of the undertakings. I said that certain undertakings had been given which had now complicated our position, and I added that inferences had been drawn from statements made by my predecessors of which, naturally, I must now take account.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation when the civil airline operators were asked to give their opinions about the operation of F.I.D.O, at London Airport; when the replies were received; and what is the consensus of opinion of the operators with regard to this matter.

Proposals on F.I.D.O. at London Airport were put to the airline operators in November, 1950, and April, 1951, when the hon. Member was Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Civil Aviation. Final replies had been received by September, 1951. When the present Government took office, however, it found the implications of these proposals too expensive. A scheme for a considerably cheaper installation has since been worked out. British European Airways (which is the largest user of London's Airports) have examined this new scheme in detail and gave their views last March. The general proposal was also discussed with British Overseas Airways Corporation last July.

In general, the operators see considerable possibilities in F.I.D.O. as an aid to regularity, but I should emphasise that it is not a necessity for safety purposes, since aircraft can always be diverted to another aerodrome.

When the right hon. Gentleman talks about the new developments, is he referring to the jets burning heavy oil, and, if so, is he aware that that development was already known when the operators were first approached? Having got this other information, can he say when he is going to make a decision on the matter?

A new development which I had particularly in mind was that the former plans covered the full approach length. The present scheme only covers the runway, with the result that the total capital cost falls from £227,000 to £130,000, and the average landing charge from £300 to £120, which makes it all much more worth while.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation for a statement about the recent conference of the Commonwealth Air Transport Council.

The fourth meeting of the Commonwealth Air Transport Council opened in London on 10th June and lasted for three days. Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, Southern Rhodesia, the Union of South Africa, the United Kingdom and the Colonial Empire were represented. A useful exchange of views on national policies for air transport took place, in course of which the opportunity was taken to explain to Commonwealth delegates how the civil aviation policy of the present United Kingdom Government had been designed to give greater scope to independent operators while safeguarding the position of the airways Corporations on their established routes. Among other subjects discussed were the problem of noise at airports, future aircraft requirements and the question of regulating the lengths of runways to match the future development of civil aircraft.

May I congratulate the Government on the excellent idea of having a conference on this matter at this time? Can I ask the hon. Gentleman, also, whether any decision was come to as to the agenda at any future meetings?

No action has directly flowed from the Commonwealth Air Transport meeting because, as the hon. Gentleman knows, this is consultative in its character. I am very grateful for the tribute which the hon. Gentleman pays. I am sure we are all agreed that this is a very useful body indeed, which will be meeting again in the not too distant future.

Was any agreement reached about future types of aircraft which are now to be designed?

Yes, that was one of the subjects which were discussed.

TO ask the Minister of Civil Aviation, what decision has been taken with regard to the compulsory installation of rearward-facing seats in British passenger air liners.

May I point out to the Minister, Mr. Speaker, that there appears to be a mistake on the Paper. You were kind enough to call my attention to the fact that this was my Question.

The Question originally stood in the name of the hon. Member for Dover (Mr. Arbuthnot). I was just informed that the Question was cancelled, and then I was told that there was an error and that the Question belonged to the hon. Gentleman for Preston, South (Mr. Shackleton), who has asked it. In the circumstances, if the Minister has not the answer, it would be unfair to expect him to give it.

I had the answer down for the hon. Member for Dover. It is:

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to a similar question by the hon. Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Beswick) on 4th February.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation to what extent negotiating machinery exists for dealing with disputes between the employees and the employers in the British European Airways service.

The National Joint Council for Civil Air Transport has set up comprehensive machinery for the settlement of terms and conditions of employment of persons employed by the Corporation.

Does the right hon. Gentleman by-pass, in individual cases, the machinery of negotiation set up to deal with them, as well as with wages and conditions? I ask this because of the reply which he gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Belfast, North (Lieut.-Colonel Hyde) on Wednesday last.

No, Sir, but, like any other responsible Minister, I am always glad to use any opportunity of bringing the parties to any discussion together again. I certainly do not deliberately by-pass the appropriate machinery.

What means of negotiation are open to unions not represented on the National Joint Council, since in practice they are debarred from making any representations through that means?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of Civil Aviation what is now the position of the porter staff employed by him at the various airports in relation to tipping.

Ministry of Civil Aviation porters are forbidden to solicit tips in any way, but it would not be practicable to ban the acceptance of tips freely and spontaneously offered.

As this is a practice which is obviously growing, will the Minister introduce, or at least look at, with a view to introducing, the excellent American red-cap system, which works extremely well and is a great relief to passengers?

My knowledge of the customs in America shows that the habit of tipping is more prevalent there than it is over here. I do not think there is any need to change the regulations that we already have.

Will the Minister not seriously consider the suggestion made by my hon. Friend? I do not know whether he has ever been on an American railway station. There are disadvantages, but one of the advantages is that one does know how much to tip. It would be useful to have such a system.

An added complication is that Ministry of Civil Aviation porters are civil servants. The arrangement that we have at the present time meets the convenience of the public and it would be wrong to try to change it.

asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware that there is a demand, both at home and abroad, for bitter marmalade containing less than the minimum prescribed proportion of sugar; and whether he will ask the Food Standards Committee to consider whether the existing standards for marmalade and jam can be abolished or modified.

I have asked the Food Standards Committee to review the existing standard for this type of marmalade.

I thank my right hon. and gallant Friend.

asked the Minister of Food when the term "Full Fruit Standards," as applied to jam, will cease to be used; and whether sulphur dioxide is still used in the preservation of the fruit pulp which is later artificially dyed.

The use of the term "Full Fruit Standards" jam will no longer be required when the Food Standards (Preserve) Order, 1953, comes into force at various dates between September this year and May, 1954. The answer to the second part of the Question is "Yes."

Does the Minister mean that when this term is no longer used sulphur dioxide will no longer be used and will be forbidden in the way it was before the war?

No. but it is still an offence to use anything which is injurious.

May I press the Minister further? It was always accepted that it was injurious to use sulphur dioxide for fruit preservation. That is why the Ministry forbade it before the war. When is the Minister going to do that again?

I am prepared to look into that question, but the fact is that when jam is boiled the sulphur dioxide disappears.

asked the Minister of Food for a statement regarding the 500,000 gallons of concentrated orange juice recently purchased by his Department and now found to be unsuitable for the use for which it was intended.

Certain shipments of concentrated orange juice from Sicily bought by my Department in 1951 for the Welfare Scheme were found, contrary to specification, to contain an added preservative. While this is common commercial practice, its effect, in the containers used in this case, was to make the juice unsuitable for issue under the Welfare Scheme. The juice is now being reconditioned in accordance with advice from the British Food Manufacturing Industries Research Association. Analysis of the reconditioned juice by the research associations, the Government Chemist and chemists drawn from the trade discloses no harmful substances and it is therefore being offered for sale.

Can my right hon. and gallant Friend say whether his Department have had any offers?

None, Sir, up-to-date.

asked the Minister of Food the total amount of chalk which is added to flour in any given year; and from what source the chalk is obtained.

In the 12 months ended 23rd May, 1953, 11,369 tons of calcium carbonate were added to National flour. The whole of the supplies conformed to the specifications of the British Pharmacopoeia and were obtained from home sources.

Is the Minister aware that a great deal of discussion is going on whether there is any need to add chalk to our flour today, and that the original views are suspect? Can he say whether his Department are doing anything to check up on this problem and see whether we could not possibly now do without this substance?

The hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that there is very seldom unanimity on these particular points. He will also recollect that this was the result of the work of the committee of 1941. The reason that it is still being maintained is because there is a proved deficiency of calcium intake in our diet.

Does not the Minister agree that recent experiments in South Africa have shown that the work in 1941 may well be not as accurate as we should like it to be and may not justify the use of 11,000 tons of chalk in our flour each and every year? Will not the Minister's Department look at the question once more?

I am always prepared to look at important matters of this sort, but it is admitted that there is a very serious shortage of calcium intake.

Is the Minister aware that it will cause a great deal of alarm in this country if people think that thousands of tons of chalk are put into bread? Is he also aware that if one has full wheat one does not require chalk?

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware of the disappointment expressed by farmers and farm workers over the new arrangements for the issue of seasonal rations; and if he will give fresh consideration to the representations which have been made to him in this matter.

I have already arranged, in consultation with the National Farmers' Union and National Union of Agricultural Workers, for a greater proportion of this extra food to be available during the peak harvest months, and I have promised to review the scheme again in September.

Is the Minister aware that that scheme is working particularly badly in places like Norfolk where, during the period from April to July, work on the farms is exceptionally heavy, and yet, under the new scheme, the workers will receive only one issue of these rations whereas under the former scheme they received two?

This change was made in consultation and agreement with both unions concerned.

asked the Minister of Food how much wheat has been purchased abroad by his Department and on private account since 1st May, when traders were allowed to import wheat.

It would be contrary to the public interest to give this information.

Can the Minister say whether he has any information about the extent to which wheat is being bought on private account? If he has not that information, how does he decide how much wheat to buy on Government account?

Control does not end until 29th August, and there is no need for traders to buy on private account if they do not wish to do so, because the Ministry will continue to supply them to their full requirements.

asked the Minister of Food by how much supplies to education authorities for school meals have been reduced since the price increase; and in respect of what items of diet.

I regret that this information is not available.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman try to get this information made available, because it is of the utmost importance?

School meals, catering establishments and individuals— like the hon. Lady—might all be supplied by the same supplier. The only responsibility to the Ministry of these traders is to give the total non-take-up of rations, regardless of any particular category. If the hon. Lady wants any information about school meals she had better put down a Question to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education.

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the only confectioner, Rossi, in the burgh of Kilcreggan has been without sweets of any kind during Coronation week and for three weeks before that; and if he will remedy this situation to ensure supplies to Mr. Rossi.

I am informed that there are four retailers of sweets in Kilcreggan and that there have been no complaints from the public of their inability to obtain supplies. According to his own statement the retailer in question has regularly received supplies from the more popular manufacturers but has experienced some delay in deliveries of boiled sweets by wholesalers.

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the meat ration is reaching the housewife in fat pork and mutton; and if he can take steps to ensure adequate supplies of beef.

During the last four weeks pork and mutton have, on average, represented only about 28 per cent. of the value of the meat ration. Over that period beef has averaged 30 per cent. and lamb, mainly first quality, 42 per cent. Beef supplies will increase in the next few months with the seasonal rise in home-killed cattle.

Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman say what percentage of fat is being supplied with pork and mutton? Can he also say why housewives should be charged the price of meat for fat?

An allowance is made for fat. I have answered the Question. The hon. Lady was talking about the meat ration, and saying that the whole ration reaching the housewives was fat pork. In fact, all told only 28 per cent. is mutton and pork.

asked the Minister of Food the consumption of full-price fresh milk for the month of May, 1953.

The provisional estimate is 113 million gallons.

asked the Minister of Food the present average costs of imported and home-produced bacon, respectively.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Mr. Hurd) on 23rd January, 1953.

In view of the marked disparity between those prices, would not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman agree that it is not very business-like to discourage our Continental suppliers, and that there seems to be a case for a more realistic inquiry into home production costs?

I do not know what the hon. Gentleman means by "discourage our Continental suppliers."

asked the Minister of Food what instructions about storage have been given to foreign suppliers of eggs.

In April and May we asked Denmark and the Irish Republic to store on our behalf, for varying periods, a proportion of the eggs that they would otherwise have shipped under contract. They are not now putting any eggs into store for us.

Would not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman agree that we gave the Danes instructions to cancel the storage of eggs at the same time that we gave instructions to the Poles to store eggs? The trade is very discouraged by this lack of efficiency in dealing with eggs and think that if they are to be freed they should be freed from incompetent interference by the Ministry.

The fact of the matter is that, contrary to the hon. Gentleman's statement, the Poles are unable to store any eggs. With regard to the supply position, the hon. Gentleman should know by now that there is no shortage of eggs. If all the eggs that have been stored had been released, it would have made a difference of one-eighth of an egg per head per week.

If it is right that there is no shortage of eggs, why has the price gone up?

I should think the hon. Gentleman, with his experience in this office, should know that egg prices vary according to the season.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defence how many officers of the three Services have commuted their retired pay since the war ended.

I am informed that there have been about 7,500 commutations of officers' retired pay since the end of the war. This figure includes cases in which an officer has commuted more than once. It would not be possible without lengthy research to determine the precise number of individuals concerned.

Will my hon. Friend take these very large figures into account when considering the needs of retired officers and the question of increasing their pensions?

Yes, Sir, but my hon. and gallant Friend will realise that people do not necessarily commute only for reasons of poverty. They often do so because they want to start a business.

Will the hon. Gentleman clear up one mystery to my mind? How can an officer commute his retired pay more than once?

He may commute £100 a year of it at one time and another £100 a year subsequently.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defence the amount of the basic pension paid to a lieut.-colonel of 25 years' service who retired in 1921; what is the basic pension paid to the same officer today; and whether he will also give the same figures in terms of purchasing power according to the cost-of-living figures issued by the Treasury.

The retired pay for a combatant lieut.-colonel in 1921 would have varied between £450 and £540 a year, according to length of service in the rank. He would now be getting between £440 and £525 a year, on which he would, if qualified, be eligible for increases under the pensions increase schemes. The present cost of living figure is about 160 per cent. of that of 1921, but no accurate figure can be given as there is no continuous index covering the period. On this basis the 1921 equivalents are about £300 and £350.

Does not my hon. Friend regard it as thoroughly discreditable that these officers should be worse off now than they were 20 or 30 years ago? As the Chancellor of the Exchequer has just sat beside him, will he try to get some money out of his right hon. Friend in order to deal with this matter properly?

A great many of us are worse off than we were 20 or 30 years ago.

In giving further consideration to the matter, will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind some very disturbing figures released by the Minister of National Insurance the other day which show that the number of ex-Service pensioners forced to draw National Assistance has increased by thousands during the past 12 months?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defence the conditions governing the giving of information to the United States of America about British military inventions; and whether he will arrange that, in future, such information will not be given unless payment and full acknowledgment is made for those British military inventions adopted, either in whole or in part, by the United States Government.