asked the Minister of National Insurance if he will give an assurance that old-age pensioners in receipt of supplementary allowances will receive additional assistance to cover any additional rent or rate increases imposed by local authorities.

The National Assistance Board inform me that increases in rent or rates are always taken into consideration and that if, as in the great majority of cases, the assistance is providing for the rent in full it will usually be adjusted to provide for any reasonable increase in rent.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that very satisfactory piece of information, may I ask whether he can tell us why it was not possible for him to give us some indication about the additional costs when I asked him a Question the other day. When I asked my right hon. Friend how much the additional cost would be to the Assistance Board, his answer was that the information was not available. I just wondered how it comes to be available now.

I certainly have not, and I do not suppose that the Assistance Board have at their disposal, full details of the increases that have been made in municipal rates and local rates.

Can the Assistance Board, under their existing regulations, give the additional amount of financial assistance mentioned in the Question, and is it anticipated that the Board will carry out an early review of their regulations in order to enable them to do it?

The Board certainly have the necessary power, and I am told that they can and do give increases in assistance retrospectively, where the applicant has not applied for it until after the event.

asked the Minister of National Insurance (1) if he will make known to all retirement pensioners that the National Assistance Board will, in special circumstances, make grants for such items as clothing and household equipment;

The order book sent to retirement pensioners already tells them how they can apply for supplementary assistance if they need it and directs attention to explanatory leaflets obtainable at the Post Office, which refer to war savings and grants for exceptional needs. I do not consider that further general directions to retirement pensioners are called for.

Would the Minister agree that the tentative promise which he gave today in reply to another Question, that he would undertake to prepare a simplified leaflet, to some extent meets the point that I have raised?

I promised to consider the suggestion of a new and amalgamated leaflet embodying information about various forms of pension. I assure hon. Members that it is not an easy problem, because we have different classes of pensioner and the whole system of disregards is extremely complicated and elaborate. I hesitate to pretend that I can put all that in such simple language that every citizen will understand it.

Can the Minister say how wide is the discretionary power of the National Assistance Board officers? Does it vary from region to region or office to office? Is he aware that there is some misapprehension, particularly in Scotland, that the different Assistance Board officers have varied discretionary power?

I have not heard that suggestion before. The whole point of National Assistance is that there is this very wide discretion to meet immensely varying individual cases and needs, and I believe that the whole House pays tribute to the way in which National Assistance has been administered.

asked the Minister for National Insurance the number of persons in receipt of retirement pensions and the number of them also in receipt of National Assistance to the nearest most convenient date.

The number of retirement and contributory old age pensioners on 31st March, 1953, was about 4,200,000, of whom some 870,000 were also receiving regular weekly grants of National Assistance. In some cases, however, the grant covers the needs of a household containing more than one pensioner.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is still a great deal of misunderstanding, which has been contributed to by recent statements, about the circumstances in which the old age pensioner is entitled to claim National Assistance? Could he arrange for the publication of a modern leaflet setting out the present scales and giving this kind of valuable information, which is so much needed?

Only recently I contributed an article to a newspaper called "The Old Age Pensioner," in order to try to correct some of the misapprehensions about this matter which seem to be in circulation. It is a little complicated, and I should hesitate very much to try to express very comprehensively the exact position of all pensioners, because there are contributory and non-contributory pensioners and the standards applicable to them are not the same.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that many months ago he promised to publish a pamphlet giving all the details of pensions and benefits for the benefit of hon. Members, contributors and others? Has any progress been made in compiling this publication?

We have the most detailed leaflets which are available in my offices, and also in post offices, to old age and retirement pensioners. If the hon. Gentleman would like to have a copy of any of these I should be only too pleased to send it to him.

Are not these things somewhat involved, and is it not a fact that an applicant would have to obtain a number of leaflets in order to ascertain his or her position? Would not a comprehensive leaflet, as suggested by the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Hale) be of great value?

I will consider it.

asked the Minister of National Insurance whether he is aware of the growing hardship amongst old age pensioners due to the increase in the price of food; and whether he is prepared to make immediate representation as to the need for an early increase in the basic rate of retirement pension.

asked the Minister of National Insurance if he will take steps to increase pensions paid to old age pensioners to offset the increases in food prices which have taken place in recent months.

asked the Minister of National Insurance if he will increase old age pensions, widows' pensions, and unemployment and sickness benefits in proportion to the increased cost of living since the last increases were given.

I would refer the hon. Members to the reply I gave on 22nd June to the hon. Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Lewis).

Is the Minister aware that that reply did not give any satisfaction? Will he bear in mind that in present circumstances, with the prevailing prices of bacon, butter and meat, many of these vital items are passing wholly out of the old age pensioners' lives? Now that we are assured officially that there is no National Assistance available in respect of the increased price of food, will he look at this matter very seriously, because it is of great importance?

The hon. Member must be aware of the difficulty of continually changing the rates of pension under a contributory scheme where the rates of pension are related to the rates of contribution. In fact, the 1952 Act restored the purchasing power of benefits to what the pensions had originally, in July, 1948, and there has been very little change since the new rate of pensions came into operation in the summer and autumn of last year.

Is the Minister aware that whatever may be the fall or rise in the cost of living generally, to these people there is no doubt about the rise in the cost of living, because it affects food and the first essentials? Does he not know of the dire need among these people and will he reconsider the request which we have made in these Questions?

It is quite unfair to assume that the majority, or even a fairly large proportion, of these people have no other resources than their retirement pension.

There are 870,000.

In fact, the large majority, something like three-quarters, have other resources. While it is true that certain items in the cost-of-living index have increased in the last few months, the assistance scales were most generously increased last year and it is also true that people receiving help from the Assistance Board are much better off today than at any time since the end of the war.

Is the Minister aware that the present cost-of-living index is inapplicable to old age pensioners? They do not spend money on clothes, because they cannot afford them and cannot replace them. Is he aware that their principal item is food, that the price of food has gone up and has been deliberately forced up by the actions of Her Majesty's Government?

asked the Minister of National Insurance if he will seek the advice and guidance of the friendly societies, insurance companies, trade unions and other bodies in connection with the quinquennial review required by the National Insurance Act; and if he will make a statement.

My hon. Friend can be assured that representative bodies will be given every opportunity of putting forward their views in connection with the forthcoming review of the National Insurance Scheme, but I cannot be more precise at present.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his statement, may I ask whether, as this review will be of such tremendous importance, preliminary work is now being done on these lines?

Yes, Sir. Quite a lot of preliminary work is now being done in my Department on subjects directly connected with the review.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what progress has been made in his negotiations with Electricité de France for laying a subterranean cross-Channel power cable; and whether he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The scheme being considered involves the laying of three or four electric submarine cables across the Channel capable of transferring a total of 100,000 kilowatts of power at 132,000 volts. Last year I approved a proposal of the British Electricity Authority that they should co-operate with Electricité de France in a programme of experiment and development. This work is progressing well; sample lengths of special cables have been constructed and I am informed that cable laying trials will be carried out this summer.

In view of the extraordinary success in the war years of Pluto, which is similar in principle, and the fact that a pipeline was then evolved and manufactured in a period of slightly over two years from start to finish, can my right hon. Friend say when a subterranean electricity cable of this kind can be brought into use?

I well remember the impulse that was given by the Prime Minister to that work at that time. It is different in peace-time, when one has to have co-operation between two nationalised undertakings in different countries, but the work is proceeding very well and I understand that the programme of research and development will be finished next year.

If and when this system is instituted, will it be a two-way traffic by which we may receive electricity or transmit it?

Yes, Sir. That is the essence of the proposal, particularly at peak hours.

Would the Minister not agree that the technical problems involved in this matter are vastly different from those that were involved in Pluto?

Yes, Sir, because the one cable contained petroleum and the other, we hope, will contain electricity.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will make a statement on the effect of atomic power on the future of the fuel industries.

I am studying this matter in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply and other Ministers concerned, and I have had discussions with experts from the atomic energy establishments in company with the chairmen of the nationalised fuel industries. At the present stage there is not enough knowledge on which to base a precise assessment of the effect of nuclear energy on the fuel industries; but the earliest application is likely to be in the generation of electric power.

In view of the embryonic state of the researches and investigations which are now being conducted, as the right hon. Gentleman has said, is it wise that an official, I think it was, of the British Electricity Authority should make optimistic statements about the early use of atomic power and the detrimental effect it will have on the fuel industry?

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, I do not have any day-to-day control of the utterances of officials of nationalised industries, but it would certainly be unwise to make over-optimistic statements.

Could the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is correct that in the present state of knowledge there is no indication that with the capital sums involved in producing atomic power there will be any economy over the use of coal or water in the production of electricity?

I cannot commit myself to any statement of that kind, and, in any event, questions relating to such matters should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that I am not suggesting that if there is any prospect of the use of atomic power it should in any way be suppressed, but that there is apprehension in certain quarters, particularly in the coal industry, about the ultimate effect of the use of atomic power for industrial purposes? Is he planning this matter so as to ensure that no one will suffer?

It was for that reason that, with the co-operation of my right hon. Friend, I had discussions with the experts of the atomic energy establishments, at which the Chairman of the National Coal Board was, of course, present. We wanted them to be in touch with developments at the very earliest stage. It is really too early to make precise assessments, but we shall certainly need all the coal that we can get.

Has the right hon. Gentleman's Ministry taken into consideration what period will have to elapse before an alternative to coal can be introduced? Will the use of atomic energy be a solution to our difficulties?

I do not think that anybody knows at the present stage.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power to what extent his Department will in future assume separate responsibilities for the industrial use of atomic power; and if he will make a statement.

Future responsibility for the industrial use of atomic power is at present under consideration by the Waverley Committee.

Will the Minister say, in due course, that the name of his Department indicates that his Department should be largely responsible for this aspect of the matter?

The matter is under consideration by this Committee. Any question about its work would have to be put to the Prime Minister.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is aware that the stockholders of a number of gas companies have not received the distribution to which they are entitled in the light of the recent decision of the High Court in the case of Whittington v. the North Eastern Gas Board re the Morley Gas Company, and that the stockholders in question are unable to pursue their remedy, as their duly-appointed representatives have now ceased to hold office; and if he will exercise his powers under Section 27 of the Gas Act, 1948, to enable fresh representatives to be appointed or afford other means of pursuing a remedy.

So far as I have powers under Section 27 of the Gas Act, 1948, to cause or enable a stockholders' representative to be appointed, and the exercise of those powers is necessary to enable stockholders to pursue any remedy available to them, I am certainly prepared to exercise my powers.

Will the Minister similarly exercise those powers in the case of the basic price company, which has a Board of Trade clause where the undistributed profits would be distributable had the Ministry of Fuel and Power laid down, during the war—when they were too busy otherwise to consider it—conditions under which they might be distributed?

As the House will realise, I had to take careful legal advice when drafting the original answer. I hope that my hon. Friend will not mind, therefore, if I ask for notice of that supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what plans he has for increasing the use of peat in the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement.

Plans for increasing the use of peat will depend on the outcome of the experimental work which I described in a reply on 2nd February. Gas turbines have been developed to run on peat, and machines are being installed to prepare the raw peat for feeding to the turbines, and this work is making satisfactory progress.

In view of the limitations of our coal supplies, should not the development of alternative fuels like peat be regarded as a matter of far greater urgency? Cannot the Minister popularise peat as a possible domestic fuel, as he will agree that it is used very successfully in Eire?

It is regarded as a matter of urgency.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is aware that the proposal to construct an electricity power station on The Leys, Gileston, St. Athan, Glamorgan, if proceeded with will destroy approximately 135 acres of good agricultural land and valuable amenities which includes the Barry Golf Club, established over 56 years ago; and what steps he has taken, before giving his consent, to find an alternative site less destructive of good agricultural land and amenities.

I have heard that there may be a proposal for a power station in the Aberthaw area of Gileston, Glamorgan, but the British Electricity Authority have not yet applied for my consent and I have no details of the proposal at present.

Does the Minister recall that only recently he had to refuse his consent to the siting of a power station at Machen, in Monmouthshire? Would it not be an advantage for the planning authority to be called in at an early stage instead of being almost the last to be informed about the siting of these stations?

It is difficult for me to act before an application has been made to me by the British Electricity Authority.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he is taking to ensure that coal stocks at power stations are adequate to meet anticipated demands during the coming winter.

There are ample supplies of the grades of coal mainly used by the power stations.

While appreciating the good sense, in general, of that answer, may I ask whether it is not a fact that power station stocks should be adequate in relation to the possible transport difficulties of those stations during the winter months? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied on that point?

Yes, Sir. Although not quite as high as last year, they are not far away and they are far higher than they were in any year before.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power why Mr. J. W. Dawson's application, of 14th March, to register as a coal merchant in the Bridlington rural district has been refused.

I understand that the local fuel overseer refused the application on the ground that the small villages concerned are already served by five coal merchants.

If my right hon. Friend thinks it necessary to continue coal rationing, would he not try to devise a system by which permits are not allocated on the basis of conditions in 1939? Could he inform his regional overseers that it is not his policy to discourage competition?

It is certainly not our policy to discourage competition, but difficult questions arise as to what is really the right number of coal merchants in an area while we have this severe limitation on household distribution.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will reconsider his decision to authorise the prospecting for opencast coal in the urban district of Heanor, Derbyshire, having regard to the large number of sites which have already been worked and which have caused discomfort and annoyance to the people in the area and encroached on the limited amount of land suitable and available for house building purposes.

No, Sir. Prospecting does no appreciable harm and it is most desirable that the National Coal Board should find out what coal may be available for working in case of need. If further coal is found and the Board seek my authority to work it I can assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that I will bear his views in mind before coming to a decision.

I am very much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for his reply, but does he appreciate that in this part of Derbyshire there has been so much opencast coal working that there is very little land now left for houses for miners? We are getting into a very acute situation in that respect.

Does the Minister realise that owing to the high cost of machinery used in opencast mining there is a strong temptation in some quarters to use this machinery seven days a week without regard for the convenience or comfort of the people who have to suffer from the noise developed by these machines?

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he has considered the statement issued by the Yorkshire Federation of Coal Merchants Associations, a copy of which has been sent to him, concerning the quantity of supplies of coal allocated to them; and if he will make a statement upon the position in Bradford and the surrounding districts.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will give the figure of coal stocks at present available in the country and a comparable figure for 1952; and how far the stocks of household coal will be sufficient to maintain the ration next winter.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will assure the House that the stock of domestic coal in London will be maintained at a high enough level, during the coming winter, to ensure a full ration for every household in the London area.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps are being taken to stock adequate supplies of coal in Dagenham for use during the winter.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will now make a full statement upon prospects for house coal supplies next winter; and what special steps he proposes to take to assure adequacy, in view of the currently low stocks.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will give figures to show the present stocks of household coal in Scotland compared with last year; and how far he estimates that these are sufficient to assure an adequate supply throughout the winter.

On 20th June stocks of house coal were 464,000 tons, that is, some 300,000 tons below last year's level. The slow rate of stock increase during the past few weeks is a matter of particular concern to the Government. As I explained last week, there is this year a special holiday loss of nearly 5 million tons concentrated in the summer months.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether he can say, in view of the statement made by the Yorkshire Federation, whether he has had discussions with the Coal Board about not only to the quantity but the quality of coal which, I understand, is diminishing in supply in the Bradford area?

Yes, Sir. One of the difficulties which the country faces at present is the gradual but almost continual fall in the proportion of large coal contained in the total output of coal. It is, therefore, most important, if we are ever to get away from the coal restrictions which are now in force, that consumers of coal, not only of house coal but of every type of coal, should install appropriate appliances to enable themselves satisfactorily to consume the smaller sizes of coal.

Can my right hon. Friend respond to two points? First, in view of the critical house coal position developing next winter, is there no prospect of removing coke from the ration, as there are evidently plentiful supplies at the moment? Secondly, can he say whether all the briquette plants in the country which can use up so much of this low grade material and turn it into good household solid fuel, are at present working to full capacity?

I could not give that undertaking, and one of the reasons is that the public have not been readily absorbing the briquettes which my hon. Friend mentions, although it would be very helpful if they would do so.

How does the Minister expect people to stock up in the summer if the stocks in the merchants' yards are down? Is he aware that a day or two ago an official of the Society of Coal Merchants, representing over 300 merchants in London, said that their stocks are negligible, so that there will be very great difficulty in stocking even at summer prices? Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether there is any prospect of an increase in stocks of any kind of coal in the London area?

The principal trouble has been that there has been a run on the highest qualities of coal, and the consumer is not, or has not been, prepared to take the less good qualities. We are hoping to assist the merchants by this re-arrangement of price.

My right hon. Friend has not given any separate figures for Scotland. Is the position, in general, better there than in the rest of the country, and can he say whether stocks are readily interchangeable between Scotland and England?

I cannot say that I have provided myself with the figures for Scotland, but I would have said that they are similar to those for England. I do not think that a special problem arises there at the moment.

How much coal has been taken up for stocking in Scotland under the summer prices scheme? Further, has the right hon. Gentleman had an assurance from the merchants that they will press the sale of smaller coal on those who have the necessary fuel efficiency appliances?

The amount of coal so far taken by householders is roughly comparable to that taken in the same period last year. I am confident that the merchants are doing their best, in their very difficult position between the Coal Board on the one side and the public on the other, to press the sale of the less good qualities of coal, but they will be much assisted by the announcement on prices which I have made today.

The point is that the smaller coal is equally good in the efficient appliances. The merchants know who have the efficient appliances. The question is: are the merchants really pressing that coal on those who have those appliances?

I am glad the right hon. Gentleman has clarified that point, because it is most important that when there is so much talk about bad coal—and there is unquestionably a good deal of bad coal about—the public should not confuse that bad coal with coal of the smaller sizes which, although different from the traditional coal in use in the past, may often be of a higher quality.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power (1) the present stock position of coal as compared with a year ago and the forecast as regards next winter;

On 20th June, total coal stocks at 16·50 million tons were, broadly, the same as a year ago. Within this total, however, distributed stocks were about 1·3 million tons down and undistributed about 1·1 million tons up on last year's level. We have so far exported about 6·3 million tons, that is, about 1·3 million tons more than in the comparable period last year. I do not feel able at present to forecast the figures for the whole of the year.

Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that, judging from early reports, the speech which has just been made by Sir William Lawther is a statesmanlike contribution to this difficulty, and will he join me in expressing the hope that the miners will help us out of this difficulty in this coming winter?

I am not quite sure to which speech my hon. Friend is referring, but it is the fact, and it should be appreciated, that the miners' leaders are playing a most helpful and vigorous part, with the National Coal Board, in the campaign for increased output.

As statements have been made that there is to be a shortage of coal this winter, will the Minister see that the poorer quarters of the City of Birmingham—where the inferior qualities are taken—are well stocked, instead of the better-off districts?

That is the precise purpose of the announcement I have made this afternoon.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether, in view of the threatened shortage of coal next winter, he will speed up the introduction of fuel-saving grates, stoves and other economical appliances.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he has taken to encourage the production of high-efficiency open fires of utility pattern capable of easy installation in existing fire-openings, as recommended by the Ridley Committee.

The Coal Utilisation Council is constantly extending its campaign in favour of these new appliances, and I am glad to tell the House that last year nearly 2 million of them were delivered to the home market, compared with 687,000 in 1951 and 345,000 in 1950. A six-fold increase in two years is a remarkable achievement and if the 1952 rate could be maintained for another two years about half the homes in the country will have these appliances.

Are there any steps which the Ministry can take to ensure that that is so, because in the foundry area of Falkirk and the surrounding district there is a great deal of unemployment among the very people making these fuel-saving appliances? Will he consult his right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply to see whether it can be assured that there will be no shortage of iron or the necessary orders? There is plenty of capacity for increasing the production of these appliances immediately.

In reply to a later Question I am pointing out that certain changes are occurring in the industry at the moment. I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman's question can be connected with that Question.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what steps he has taken to establish new standards of performance, based on achieving a room efficiency of 40 per cent. with coal, for solid-fuel room-heating appliances, as proposed by the Ridley Committee.

New standards of performance were brought into force on 30th June. The efficiency stipulated, together with the revised methods of test, set a higher standard which in many cases, if the appliance is appropriately installed, is comparable with the 40 per cent. room efficiency recommended by the Ridley Committee.

Do I understand that approval will not be given to any types of appliance which do not meet this standard of efficiency? Can the Minister also assure us that raw materials will be available for the manufacture of sufficient quantities?

I do not think there is difficulty about raw materials at present. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, these specifications are extremely elaborate, and they have gone out to the industry.

How many of the two million appliances produced and sold last year came up to the standard of efficiency which is now in operation?

They came up to the standard of efficiency which was then in operation. I cannot say how many would reach this higher standard.

Is the Minister aware that his repeated attempts to sell lower grades of coal and coke will not meet with the success he desires while there are so many open-burning fires? Is he aware that his only chance of selling those lower grade coals is to push much more the production of fuel-saving appliances?

I would point out that the efficiencies stipulated until the new standards came into operation applied only to coke, whereas the present new specifications of efficiency apply also to coal.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will make a statement on progress made in promoting the efficient use of fuel in Government Departments and other branches of the public service.

Yes, Sir. About 5,000 improved solid fuel appliances have been installed in Government buildings in place of the old type of open grate. Where further replacements are necessary improved appliances are always installed. Improved appliances have also been installed in new houses erected by the Ministry of Supply and efficient closed stoves have been fitted in many Army and R.A.F. barracks.

Has the attention of local authorities been drawn to this point, which was one of the recommendations of the Ridley Committee?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power (1) when he proposes to make use of the administrative machinery already available for securing the distribution of anthracite and Welsh dry steam nuts on an equitable basis;

The supply of anthracite is very short, and it can, therefore, only be assured for the limited number of special appliances which operate on small sizes of anthracite and nothing else. The National Coal Board do their best to share anthracite and the other boiler fuels fairly between merchants. A system of distribution based on statistical returns would mean the sending out of millions of forms, and I do not think that this would be justified. I am glad to say that there are at present ample supplies of coke available in all parts of the country, and merchants should, therefore, be able to keep their customers supplied with fuel suitable for their appliances.

Cannot the Minister look at those many cases where some merchants have larger supplies of anthracite than others and are able to give more generous allocations to their own customers than newer merchants can give to their customers?

I will look into that matter.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power to what extent, and to whom, the National Coal Board sells coal below its actual cost of production; and what steps he is taking to rectify this state of affairs.

It is for the National Coal Board to decide the price they should charge for any particular coal, but their prices, taken as a whole, are at present designed to cover the average cost of production, and it follows that some coals are sold at less and some at more than the actual costs of producing them.

That does not answer the Question. Can the Minister tell us precisely who, or which firms, are getting this coal at uneconomic prices? Does he not realise that it amounts to a subsidy from a nationalised industry to a private concern? Will he be good enough to publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT, if he has not them here, the names of the firms who are getting this coal at uneconomic prices?

This does not involve a subsidy to one set of firms any more than it could be held on the other hand, to involve a penalty to other firms. It is the pricing policy of the Coal Board and is carried out irrespective of individual firms.

Is it not a fact that coking coal is at present being sold at a loss, and that there is a very serious shortage of it? Will not the Minister consider charging a price for coking coal which covers its cost of production?

I will consider that point, since the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned it, but he may be aware that the price of coking coal has advanced more, proportionately, than other coals in some of the recent increases. I do not know whether he would consider it wise to push up the price of coking coal further, and so increase the price of gas and coke.

I have in mind the cost of producing coking coal in Durham, which is rather high. I suggest that to secure greatest economy, in steel producing firms in particular, it would be advisable to charge the full price.

I will look into that question.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the Coal Board charge more to the lower income groups because they have to buy in bags? Cannot he arrange for them to have their coal at the same cheap price which applies to people who place bigger orders?

Unfortunately, larger orders are more economic from the point of view of distribution than smaller ones, which have to be supplied in smaller packets, as it were.

Will the Minister do something about it?

I will give my hon. Friend the undertaking that I shall discuss the matter with the Chairman of the Coal Board.

Is it not a fact that both the small and the large user get their coal much cheaper than they would do if the industry had not been nationalised?

I do not think I could agree with that statement.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the pithead prices of the various grades of coal, indicating which grades are used for domestic or industrial purposes.

The National Coal Board is responsible for the pithead prices of individual grades of coal as a matter of day-to-day administration and I would suggest that the hon. Member might like to make direct inquiries of the Board.

Does not the Minister think that this is an extraordinary position, in view of the fact that pithead prices are factual? Why cannot he give them when an hon. Member asks for them? Why does he not do something to relate the price charged at the pithead to the retail price?

I am only trying sincerely and fairly to operate a system which I inherited. I might point out to the hon. Gentleman something of which he may not be aware—that there are between 7,000 and 8,000 different commercial descriptions of coal.

Yes, of course.

Mr. Speaker, may I draw your attention to Question No. 26, which related to precisely the same point, which was apparently accepted by the Table—as was Question No. 36—and which was answered by the Minister? I simply raise the point because many of us are in grave doubt about what we can ask, what will be accepted and to what we can expect an answer.

This Question was not quite the same as Question No. 26. This Question is admissible, and the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Manuel) has received an answer to it.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the average retail prices charged for the various grades of domestic and industrial coal.

I regret that this information is not available but I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a sample maximum retail price for house coal in a few selected towns and if he requires further information he will, no doubt, communicate with me. Similar information for industrial coal is not available.

I thank the Minister for that information, but will he make certain that there is equity in the prices charged for the various grades of coal? Is he sure that the economic return from the industrial coal being used is what it ought to be, when compared with the return from the coal being used by the domestic consumer?

I should require notice of that question.

Does the list of these towns include Belfast?

No, but I will let the hon. Member know.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how much of the Shanks Site, near Wingerworth, Derbyshire, he proposes to requisition; why he has ignored the objections of the Chesterfield Rural District Council, who have carried out an extensive sewage and sewage disposal scheme costing many thousands of pounds to meet the future development of this area as a housing estate; and if he will give further consideration to the opposition of local authorities to this suggested scheme.

I cannot say whether any land at this site will be requisitioned until consultations now going on with other Departments and interests concerned are completed. Meanwhile, the Chesterfield Rural District Council have been informed that their objections are being considered and that a further communication will be sent to them before any decision is taken.